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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  February 7, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PST

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thanks for being with us. see you tomorrow. here's stephanie ruhle. >> thanks so much, andrea. hello, everyone. i'm stephanie ruhle. my partner ali velshi is off. it is thursday, february 7th. let's get smarter. virginia's three highest ranking officials now embroiled in their own individual political chaos. the governor and attorney general both admit they've worn blackface as the lieutenant governor faces an allegation of sexual assault. >> a letter written by the woman reads as a credible account, and i think there should be an investigation to get to the bottom of it and determine the facts. >> the media is asking me, well,
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what about fairfax? first of all, any accusation made should be fully investigated. this woman ought not be disrespected. but neither should fairfax. don't confuse that with the fact that the governor and attorney general have admitted to what they did. house democrats defying the president's calls for an end to what he calls ridiculous investigations. >> democrats planning to put a microscope on his finances. >> we will not surrender our constitutional responsibility for oversight. >> today the subcommittee on oversight and investigations is holding a hearing entitled "kbming the failures of the trump administration's inhumane family separation policy." >> children dying in detention centers should not be a partisan concern. >> the president has gotten used to the idea that congress doesn't do oversight because for the last two years the republican majority has
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essentially been missing in action when it comes to being a co-equal branch of government. but that ended with the midterms. >> he's just a political hack. no other politician has to go through that. it's called presidential harassment. >> my response is it's not presidential harassment. it's congressional harassment. >> tempers boiled over at a house hearing on gun violence. republican congressman matt gates tried to get the parents of a murdered parkland high school student, two of them, removed. >> hr-8 would not have stopped many of the circumstances i raised, but a wall, a barrier on the southern border may have, and that's what we're fighting for. >> what i said is remember my son, remember us. then he pointed at me, like that. you don't point at me like that. >> my goodness. we have breaking news. the justice department has
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notified the house judiciary committee that acting attorney general matt whitaker will not, i repeat, will not appear before tomorrow's scheduled hearing if the house issues a subpoena to him. joining me now, msnbc correspondent garrett hake live on the hill. what does this all mean? >> reporter: stephanie, if everything stays as it is right now, ting means we should still expect to see whitaker on the hill tomorrow. here's how we got here. house democrats were very concerned that whitaker would choose not to show up here unless they subpoena him or if he came and declined to answer questions, they'd be stuck in a position where they couldn't get the information they want. so house democrats voted to authorize a subpoena, to make sure whitaker shows up. they haven't given it to him yet. they haven't presented it to him yet. now you have the doj saying if you do subpoena him, he won't come. so if house democrats sit on this authorization, we may still see matt whitaker here. where we'll get into trouble is if he shows up and refuses to
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answer questions and house democrats say, we're going to present you with this and require it. i don't know what happens. we'll have to wait and see. we're in a bizarre standoff here, indikticative of where we find ourselves. >> my goodness. walk us through tomorrow and this hearing. what is the goal for it? what are they looking to accomplish? >> reporter: whitaker's been running the justice department since just after the midterms when jeff session was fired or forced out. democrats want to know how he knows things like what he said a few weeks ago about the mueller probe potentially wrapping up soon. they want to know what kind of oversight he's providing on that probe. they want to know whether he's meddling in it. democrats have viewed whitaker from the get go as an illegitimate attorney general, someone who wasn't senate confirmed, is essentially working at the behest of the president as opposed to behest of the department. he's going to get grilled tomorrow if and when he shows up
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on a host of these issues, and that's how we got into this impasse over the subpoena. this will not be a comfortable hearing for the acting attorney general. >> all right. now we have to go to the growing chaos in virginia. i heard someone say this morning the state of virginia, has anyone tried to unplug it and plug it back in? they got some problems down there. the state's top three officials each face their own scandals. governor ralph northam refusing to resign after this racist photo showing a man in blackface and another in a kkk hood and robe was found on his medical school yearbook page. northam denies he's in the photo after initially seeming to admit one of the men was him. but he did admit to darkening his skin for a dance competition where he said he impersonated michael jackson. then there's lieutenant governor justin fairfax. he's facing an allegation of sexual assault dating back to 2004. democratic national convention is where supposedly it took
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place. he denies this claim and is also resisting calls for him to resign. and as that news developed, virginia's attorney general mark herring revealed that he, too, had appeared in blackface, saying that at the age of 19, he and his college friends dressed up as rappers they listened to and darkened their skin. now a democratic presidential candidate, california senator kamala harris, who called for northam's resignation, is speaking out on the claim of sexual assault against lieutenant governor fairfax. >> i think that the letter written by the woman reads as a credible account. i think there should be an investigation to get to the bottom of it and determine the facts. certainly her letter reads as -- it's quite detailed and suggests that there's credibility there, but there needs to be an investigation to determine what
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exactly happened. >> back with me, msnbc correspondent garrett haake on the hill. joining now, loyola law school professor jessica levin sson, along with my friend mark thompson. garrett, lay this out for us. we hear from lawmakers on all sorts of things, but this time what is the significance of hearing from kamala harris on this particular issue as it relates to the lieutenant governor? >> reporter: yeah, i think it's important and there's context here. i talk to lawmakers all day long. kamala harris is not someone who typically stops and opines on the issue of the day. she chose to come out and make these comments. it was clear she had a point she wanted to make, a well-considered point. this is the issue that has the potential to bedevil democrats. how consistent do they want to be on the fairfax issue in particular? the accusation against justin fairfax. you have democrats who are very outspoken about the accusations made against brett kavanaugh during the confirmation process.
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they're being pushed back against saying, okay, will you apply the same standards against one of your own? kamala harris coming out, a presidential candidate, someone who has a big voice in the democratic party, putting down this marker, calling for an investigation. it may put pressure on other democrats to do the same. it will keep this story certainly in the headlines. it's an effort, i think, on her part to show consistency here. we'll see whether we have other big-name democrats, particularly the presidential contenders, who have largely stayed away from the fairfax controversy here. they've spoken out about ralph northam, but less so about justin fairfax, whether that changes now with harris coming forward this morning. >> this thing is complicated. is there any pressure from virginia's congressional democrats that could force fairfax -- actually, not just fairfax, could force any of these three men out? >> reporter: well, in the immediate wake of northam's yearbook photo becoming public, you saw significant pressure from his congressional allies here, both senators from
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virginia, for example, called for him to step down almost immediately. since then, they have held their fire here a little bit. the sense i've got frighten the congressional delegation from virginia is that they want to let the state leadership voices in virginia be the first to speak out. they want to let the black caucus, for example, in virginia's house of delegates and virginia's state senate be the leading voices on this issue. they are frustrated. they are bewildered by this, having had these conversations with the two senators from virginia. they're frankly embarrassed for the state of the commonwealth right now. but i don't think it will be them who will be able, if indeed this is the direction we're going, to push any of these leaders in the commonwealth of virginia out. i think that's going to have to be a push from the bottom up, from their own democrats in virginia saying, you can't govern, you can't get this done. if it's going to happen, i think we should look for that push from the bottom, not that push from here in the northeast, pushing back towards richmond. >> jessica, democrats are thinking hard on this.
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many have thought back to al franken leaving and said maybe we pushed him too quickly before there was due process. maybe there's some regret around that. then they think back to brett kavanaugh's confirmation and their full-throated support of christine blasey-ford. now here they are. when you hear from someone like kamala harris, who's a former prosecutor, she knows that words like credible, that holds serious meaning. for us nonlawyer, nonpoliticians, what does it mean? >> i think what it means is that senator kamala harris is running for president, and she knows this is both i think the right thing to do and the right political thing to do. so if we look at the allegations, for instance, against al franken, they were very different from the allegations that we're seeing now against the lieutenant governor of virginia. what we're seeing now is sexual assault and forced oral sex. what we're seeing is -- it feels
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like déjà vu all over again. we're seeing a professor who has credible allegations against a high-level governmental official. so i think that what senator harris is doing is seizing this moment to say, if you want to support those who are potential victims of sexual assault, if you want to be part of the me too movement, that has to cross partisan lines. that cannot just be about democrats and republicans. and she also knows that she was a very vigorous questioner, i think fairly, of justice kavanaugh. she really did make a point of questioning him quite pointedly as a member of the senate judiciary committee. i think she knows it's good politics and it's good policy for her to be one of the initial faces saying this is credible. as you said that, term holds a lot of meaning. and we need to investigate this and take it seriously. >> mark, what she's asking for is an investigation. she's not asking the lieutenant governor to step down.
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while many people called for brett kavanaugh to pull himself out, he didn't. what he had was a hearing and a public hearing and she did have a chance to ask him questions there. so how do you make heads or tails of this? it's really complicated. >> well, it is, but to try to unpack a little, it was very appropriate for kamala harris to say what she said, especially what's going on in the black community with the whole debate around r. kelly. the argument has been that black women's voices have not been heard enough and have not been given enough credibility in the me too movement. so that's consistent with that. this is an african-american woman. i think all agree that her story needs to be heard. in term of investigation, you know, the fbi supposedly did an investigation of dr. blasey ford's allegations. we see where that went. in a situation as "the washington post" said where there's no corroboration, i don't know that an investigation gets everyone the answers or closer to the truth. we'll just have to see. >> jessica, was there -- i can't
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remember. chr christine blasey ford, was there corroboration? if "the washington post" did not print dr. theisen's accusations because there wasn't corroboration, but i believe it was "the washington post" that printed christine blasey ford's op ed. >> yes, but i would say two things to that. yes, and this was misreported, but you reported it accurately. there was corroboration when it came to dr. blasey ford. there were other -- there was evidence at the time that she talked to people about it. there was other evidence other than what frankly i think the senate judiciary committee tried to set it up as, as a he said/she said. the fact it's a he said/she said should not make us give an accuser's word any less meaning. often times that is what happens. there really isn't any other corroborating evidence. now, in a courtroom, in a court of law, the burden of proof of course is on the prosecutor to say, this happened beyond a reasonable doubt. but we can all use our common
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sense and say it makes all the sense in the world that there might not be other evidence. if this happened privately in a hotel room, we shouldn't take the fact that there's no corroborating evidence to mean it didn't happen. >> and what do you do with that? >> i want to be clear. i don't want to say we didn't take it seriously. sometimes people have a high expectation and then it still doesn't really get to the bottom line. >> i promise, i'm coming from a genuine place. i don't know the answer. what do you do with it if it's a he said/she said? >> well, i don't know. but i know one thing. i do know one thing. >> i hope you know more than one thing. >> and i think kamala harris has to consider this. as many people who would say we need to take dr. theisen as seriously as dr. blasey ford, if it boils down to justin fairfax having to resign and the two blackface people don't, then those very same people will say, now wait a minute, that's sort of a double standard. >> but hold on a second.
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sexual assault is a crime, and blackface is awful, but it's not a crime. >> well, but the calls have been for them to resign too. you have double victimization. you have dr. theisen as an african-american woman being victimized. then off an african-american official with an enormous black vote in virginia. he has to pay a price nobody else does. >> yeah, but he'd be paying a price for something different than what the other two would be paying for. >> it would be different, but the original crime was blackface on the part of northam. >> which is awful, but it's not a crime. >> everyone said resign. well, it's a crime to us as black people. that is a crime. >> okay, okay. >> that is unacceptable. and this is black history month. it's not as if there's a distinct history -- and this is where you get into the tug of war within the african-american culture. you want to deal with an issue like sexual assault, but by the same token, our history in america is black men being
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accused of sexual assault wrongfully and lynched for it. and in a state like virginia, that's a big deal. i want to add one other thing too. >> these are good points. >> so it gets complicated like that. now, dr. theisen is an african-american woman, but watch this. if it's not able to be resolved by an investigation, she's not fully resolved, okay. if he then has to resign anyway, then it's still two african-americans. >> they're both victims here. >> it affects the black vote, which no democrat running for office in virginia or no president who needs virginia to remain blue can afford to lose. so maybe the solution is everybody just resigns. before that, herring appoints his deputy to succeed him. she is seen to the governorship, and she's a black woman. cynthia hudson. >> i want to go back to virginia. we need to unplug virginia and plug it back in and see what happens. jessica, last point to you.
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as you can see, i am overwhelmed and confused by this. >> yeah, so because it is overwhelming and confusing. it is really troublesome. and look, there's a lot to unpack here. politically for the democratic brand, this is terrible. i mean, to look at the three top leaders in virginia and see that they have these very serious problems, there's no silver lining. there's nothing good about that. in terms of how we want to treat people who are accused of these very serious crimes, i think that we need to be careful not to hold them to the same standard that we do in a court of law. i think it's fair for us to try and do the best investigation we can and say when it comes to our public officials who are our representatives and our public servants that we can hold them to a higher standard. so i think that we need to take all of these allegations very seriously. those of sexual assault that are a crime under the criminal code and those that frankly are criminal in a sense of being so
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offensive, blackface. so i think what it comes down to -- and this is not an easy solution -- is we need to get to a place where our representatives truly represent our best selves. we're not there in virginia right now. >> this thing is so complicated. >> so complicated. >> what if he didn't do it? >> and that's what i'm saying. the black community splits along those lines. that history exists. i'm not saying he didn't. he may have. we probably will never know. >> i don't know. maybe he didn't, but then i think about dr. theisen. i think about how christine ford's life has been destroyed. and for her to put herself out there and come forward, that's awful. what she's putting herself through, i can't imagine she would do it for sport. this is a terrible, complicated situation. i appreciate you both coming and trying to help us understand it a little bit more and give us perspective. jessica levinson, mark thompson, thank you both a lot. next, investigating president trump. the house intelligence committee is launching a probe into
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president trump's personal finances and possible ties to russia. another committee is trying to get their hands on the elusive tax returns as well. we're going to tell you what we could learn, what we could learn from president trump's taxes. and you know every day i'm watching the markets, especially today. market is down over 300. that's a big nut in one day. we're going to look more at the dow when we come back. you're watching "velshi & ruhle." elshi & ruhle. let's take a look at some numbers:
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." the house intelligence committee is investigating credible reports of money laundering and financial compromise involving president trump and his businesses. democratic congressman adam schiff outlined the probe wednesday, which questions whether foreign governments have leverage over president trump, who let's not forget has a long history of financial connections to places like russia. and his consistent refusal to release his tax returns does not help. joining me now, my dear friend ben white. president trump has got ten awa with not releasing his taxes for his entire presidency thus far. talk to us about what this probe would investigate. >> right. well, on the tax return front, the house ways and means committee is having a hearing today to talk about this because there are a couple different schools of thought among the democrats. there are those, particularly in the progressive wing, who want to move quick.
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just make the request to treasury right now and get those tax returns. leadership is a little more cautious because this is a very serious endeavor they're undertaking. there are legal ramifications of it, to request the tax returns of an american citizen and eventually make them public. i think they will make this request eventually. they will get the tax returns. but there will be a legal battle. treasury will fight it. the administration will fight it. it could take a while. what they're looking for, obviously both house ways and means and now schiff, looking to the extent to which there are loans from the russians, financial enhagglement which have pushed trump to take certain positions on russia. the other school of thought is it will give a picture of trump's finances that is not in keeping with what he's publicly stated. >> who cares about that? that's just embarrassing. >> but his whole persona is based on the idea that he is this self-made billionaire. and multibillionaire. if it shows he's not, i think it
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matte matters. >> that's embarrassing, makes him look clown iish, but it doesn't matter. in terms of governing the american people, does it matter what he's worth? >> two separate tracks. the question of governance is, is he behold on to foreign powers? going into 2020, it matters if the tax returns show he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as he said he did because his base is enthralled with the idea that he is this incredible businessman who made all this money. if you undermine that narrative, that's bad electorally. so there's the governance piece of this. is he making financial decisions because of financial entanglements? and the financial piece, is he not the man he claims to be? >> we know they want to find out. thank you, ben, very much. next week we got to talk about that. it's more than valentine's. it marks one year, i can't believe it's been a year, one year since the school shooting in parkland, florida. yesterday for the first time in
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eight years the house judiciary committee held a hearing on gun violence. so for those of you who want to say democrats are just being obstructionists, just doing investigations, it's a big deal they held that hearing yesterday. i'm going to get to speak to my friend fred guttenberg. he's the father of a 14-year-old parkland student. he almost got kicked out of the hearing, the hearing that matters to him most. he's sitting next to joaquin's father. he almost got kicked out too. you're watching "velshi & ruhle." watching "velshi & ruhle. ♪ you should be mad they gave this guy a promotion. you should be mad at forced camaraderie. and you should be mad at tech that makes things worse.
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." new fallout today from the dramatic first hearing in eight years, in eight years on gun violence by the house judiciary committee. republican congressman matt gates of florida argued out of nowhere that undocumented immigrants pose a much bigger threat than guns do. those comments sparked reaction, no surprise, from two parkland dads. manuel oliver and fred guttenberg, both who lost children in the school shooting in parkland, florida. gates then called for these two men to be removed from the
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hearing. >> i hope we do not forget the pain and anguish and sense of loss felt by those all over the country who have been the victims of violence at the hands of illegal aliens. hr-8 would not have stopped many of the circumstances i raised, but a wall, a barrier on the southern border may have, and that's what we're fighting for. i hope that we'll deal with all of the drivers of violence, the greatest driver of violence in the circumstances that i indicated was not the firearm. it was the fact that we have an immigration system that allows people to come here violently. we engage -- >> there will be no comments -- >> is there a process in the committee whereby if the very same people are repeatedly interrupting the time of the members that those people will be asked to depart the committee? [ gavel pounding ]
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>> excuse me. if the gentleman repeats that or any other comment, i will direct you to be removed. >> those people, those are two dads. right there you're looking at a photograph of jamie, fred guttenberg's daughter, who lost her life last year. look at her. a beautiful girl, an accomplished dancer, a great student. she was killed in that parkland shooting one year ago next week. and i want to remind you that in 2018, there were 2340 mass shootings across the united states of america. i'm happy that fred is here with me now. he's the founder of the gun safety group orange ribbons for jamie. fred, i give you credit. if i were in your seat, i think i would have done more than interrupt. can you please walk me through -- maybe we're looking at it out of context. what exactly happened yesterday in that hearing?
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>> you are exactly in the right context. and listen, stephanie, this is the beauty of finally getting to put sunshine on these people and show who they are and what they do. the first thing that happened in the meeting yesterday, which was pretty shocking, i think you've heard me say over the course of this year gun violence is not a partisan issue. republicans and democrats both get shot. shooters don't ask, are you a democrat or republican before shooting. but i've always said the response is partisan. five minutes after that hearing started yesterday, pretty much everyone on the republican side left. only one or two stayed. >> what do you mean? hold on, hold on. the hearing starts and then what happened? >> they left. >> what do you mean? they left their seats? there's an argument going on right now that with all the investigations going on into the president, they're not going to have time to govern.
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but we have a hearing on gun violence, and walk me through one more time. five minutes in, what happens? >> five minutes, and i actually have it on twitter. i posted the video of the empty republican side. they left. >> why? >> they only came back to ask a question and then they would leave again. i give congressman gates credit. he was i think one of two that actually stayed around. but the rest of them, they left. what happened yesterday with congressman gates was honestly something that showed who he is and the way they think. this was a hearing on gun violence and how to prevent it. it was a hearing on things like hr-8, which is the background check bill. we expected questions to be asked around gun violence and gun safety. he went off on a tangent about -- i think the phrase he
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used was illegal immigration and the border wall on the southern border and that has the biggest impact on reducing crime. manny and i weren't having it. my friend manny, he's been in this country for 15 years from venezuela. he's one of the most decent, finest people i know. he fled venezuela with his family to flee violence. his son was killed here the same day my daughter was killed here. so our children were killed by an american male. so manny stood up and he said, that's not true, that's a lie. i screamed out, our children were killed by an american male, at which point congressman gates, he didn't like the interruptions. too bad. you know what, democracy at work. you can't sit here and talk
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about what happened to our children and 40,000 other people a year and expect us to say it's okay for you to do nothing and change the topic. not going to happen. >> fred, i mentioned it earlier. we're one week from the one-year anniversary of the shooting. you wrote an op-ed in "newsweek." you're posing a question to the president. you're asking him why he doesn't consider american people dying from gun violence a national emergency. can you speak to that? >> 40,000 people a year, stephanie, die from gun violence. it's now more than traffic accidents. what happened in the state of the union where he highlighted pittsburgh folks -- and i was really pleased he did it, but he did it to show heroism. in showing the pittsburgh folks, he highlighted the fact that he
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won't go near the issue of guns because he did not mention the fact they were there because somebody walked into their temple armed with an ar-15 and massacred many. it's the same story over and over and over. we do have a safety crisis in this country right now. 40,000 people a year are dieing from it. it's not on the southern border. that's not part of any emergency in this country right now. but the epidemic of gun violence is. and i will tell you, those kids, manny, me, the other parents, we're not going to stop. honestly, stephanie, as i'm sitting here doing this interview, somebody right now is having a funeral for somebody who was killed by gun violence yesterday. somebody right now is learning that their loved one was killed by gun violence. and somebody right now is planning a funeral tomorrow for somebody killed by gun violence. that's an emergency. >> my goodness, fred.
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i'm looking at a graphic on my screen right now. children and teens, 1,700 of them die by gun homicide every single year. i don't know. that feels like an emergency. fred, i really appreciate you coming on with me. i always do. next week i'm going to be thinking about you and your wife and your son and jamie. >> i'm so thankful for you and for helping us make sure this story doesn't go away because this is the emergency in our country right now. so thank you. >> all right, fred. thanks. we'll be right back. fred thanks we'll be right back. your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory.
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welcome back. now to an nbc news exclusive investigation in the wake of me too. well, a lot of new people are finding their voice. that is definitely the case for a group of women who sat down with my colleague kate snow to tell their story. they say that they were targeted for abuse and now these women want justice. nbc news national correspondent, my friend kate snow, joins me now. the women you're about to talk about were just kids. >> yeah, they were children. they were living overseas. their parents missionaries, and their parents joined a group that was then known as new tribes mission. it's one of the largest evangelical missions in the world, operating in remote parts of more than a dozen countries. but while their parents were off teaching the bible, they say they were sexually abused by fellow missionaries.
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now they want to make sure it never happens again. >> if i asked all of you as a group, what's this about for you? is there a word? >> truth. >> justice. >> justice. >> five women speaking out on national tv for the first time, exposing years of sexual abuse by men devoted to preaching the word of god. as children between the late '70s and early '90s, they lived in some of the hardest to reach places on the globe. their parents sent to work as christian missionaries by a florida organization then known as new tribes mission. the kids were placed in boarding schools where dorm fathers were in charge. they would lead devotional readings each night then put the girls to bed. all say that's where the sexual abuse happened. >> he would tuck me in at night, and he would just sit on my bed and stay too long.
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>> carrie and bonnie both lived in senegal, west africa, where they say they were abused by their dorm dad, david brooks. over in the philippines, joy and kelly say they were abused by their dorm dad, who was also kelly's biological father. >> he would put the chair next to my bed and put his hands under the covers. to this day, i sleep with a pillow on either side of me. >> i was roommates with almost every single girl that was molested or raped. and i had to pretend i was asleep as well. >> you okay, bonnie? >> i need a minute. >> when carrie finally told her parents what happened to her, she says the mission tried to cover it up. >> the mission leadership told me dad on the phone, you are going to run this man's ministry if you keep talking about this. >> so he continued to serve as a
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dorm dad. >> uh-huh. >> in senegal. >> yes. >> after more complaints, the mission led david brooks go back to the u.s. when kelly reported alleged abuse at the hands of her father, she says mission leaders tried to silence her as well. >> i was called in as a 15-year-old with three men in a room. they told me to not say anything. >> her family was abruptly sent back to the u.s. >> nobody calls the police? nobody tells the authorities in the u.s. at least? >> no one. >> new tribe's mission now called ethnos 360, admits more needed to be done. child abuse in any situation is heartbreaking, our heart goes out to any victims, a spokesperson told nbc news. in 2010, new tribes commissioned an outside investigation into only what happened in senegal. it found more than 20 children were sexually abused over two decades, and david brooks, the dorm dad in senegal, was by far
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the biggest offender. >> your abusers have not been charged with a crime. >> huh-uh. >> no. >> are they on any kind of registered sex offender's registry? >> no. >> i think that's the scariest thing, thinking that they're still out there. >> we tracked down david brooks in a small town an hour south of atlanta. >> i'd like to ask you some questions about senegal, if i could. >> you may not. >> i may not? do you want to say that an investigation found whether or not you abused children? >> no response whatsoever. >> the dorm dad from the philippines lives in virginia and agreed to speak. he confessed to abusing missionary kids but not his own daughter kelly. >> i did sexually molest these 8-year-olds there when we were living at the dorm. it always happened at night when everybody was sleeping. >> do you think you should have gone to jail?
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>> yeah, sure. i should have decapitated probably. >> as adults, every one of these women reached out to law enforcement authorities and were told it was too late to press charges. >> how many of you worry this might still be happening? >> every day. >> i think about that every day. >> i think that's why this is so important, just to show others that there's no shame. >> you have strength. >> i'm strong for the little girl that was never able to say anything, and i'm strong for her and i'm a strong woman and will do my best to protect anybody who sees this and wants to speak out. >> so ethnos 360, formerly known as new tribes, told us a few more things. they've made improvements in child protection policies. they have recurring child safety training. they say they've hired an independent team to review ministry locations. they say staff members were
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terminated and disciplined and they set up a perpetual fund to assist victims with counseling. i will say the women we interviewed say they were told they reached a limit and then they were cut off and no longer being reimbursed for any of the counseling. we should also mention that two of the women we talked to settled with new tribes mission, now ethnos 360. >> okay. so ethnos 360 has new investigators, new policies. those investigators aren't the police though. so these two men, they've never been charged. >> yeah, let me drill down on that. never, at the time of the alleged crimes, were either of these men reported to law enforcement. now, ethnos 360 did say that they contacted authorities over the years, including local law enforcement officials now, where both men live, but we called those sheriffs and police, and they said to nbc news, we had no idea an accused pedophile was living here. for example, one of the people they say they called back in the day was a hotline in florida.
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neither of these two lived in florida. so there's a lot of confusion about why they didn't call law enforcement back then. >> this is an incredible story. thank you so much for telling it. my heart goes out to those women. they are brave warriors. they really are. kate, thanks again. kate snow does the toughest stories here. she really does. >> thanks, steph. next, a trump official is hurting the very people that she's tasked with protecting. the head of the consumer financial protection bureau wants to scrap a lending rule meant to guard the most vulnerable americans. payday loans can be so costly, some with an insane annual percentage rate pushing 400%. payday lending, this is predatory lending. it preys on the most vulnerable people. they're not going to payday lend so they can buy jewelry. they're doing it so they can pay their heating bill. please stick around. you're watching "velshi &
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ruhle." atching "velshi & ruhle.
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welcome back, in a potential win for the worst industry in my
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opinion, payday lending, it is like loan sharking. the president's pick to head the consumer financial bureau has proposed eliminating rules that eliminate the number of back-to-back loans that can be made. now, she wants to require lenders to verify that the bar work can even repay the loan on time while covering living expenses. for facts sake, it is important to understand what these loans are and the massive risk they pose. please watch this. >> payday lending marketed as a convenient way for millions of poor americans with no credit to get a small loan, as long as you have a job and a bank account. for every $100 you want, you can take out a two-week loan. almost like an advance on your next paycheck. seven out of ten borrowers use
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payday loans to finance expensesment payday lenders make sheer money of repeat borrowing at loan shark rates adding 400% annually. some is as high as 950%. that would mean someone taking out a $300 loan could end up paying 2,850 bucks in fee alone. why is this happening? first, payday lender say they need to charge their customers super high rates because they carry super high risk of defaults. borrowers they're expected to pay the total amount they owe within a period of weeks. a whopping 80% of borrowers can't afford to make full lump sum payment. it is no wonder almost 12 million americans takeing out
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payday loan each year wound up spending. payday lenders insist they do not market their product as long-term financial solutions. none of which counts as payments towards their under lining loans. critics say that kind of business model fuels a cycle of loans and more debt. which is kind of a point. it should come no surprise that 15 states already banned high cost payday lending. why this predatory practice is not a high priority for the trump administration is anyone's gues guess. >> i want to make it clear, the new head, i invite you to have a conversation with me. why are you doing this? >> joining me now, business professor, my dear friend, scott
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galloway. >> these blow backs, these blow my mind. payday lending is the most predatory lending to the most vulnerable borrowers. >> so i will give you the rational or i will give you the talk track, the talk track is if you unleash this industry from regulations that'll track more players in the invisible hand of competition will bring down rates and offering more products to them. >> that was not the case before the financial crisis. these guys were the definition of loan sharks before they had the regulation, they were not any better, they were horrible. that's why we got the regulation in response of their practices. >> let me be clear, i believe this is a false narrative and there is a lot of evidence showing it is a false narrative. one number stood out and before we began talking is the annual interest rate is 400%. we are talking about the most
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economically disadvantage cohearc coheart in america. that's jeff bezose, when he nees to borrow money, he borrows at an interest rate at some where at 2% or 2.5%. people who are in a tough spot and can't make their rent are being charged 400% a year? the point of regulation is to protect the government, not the governor. we have pay for play, all these people pointing the regulations out are getting money. trade association that represents this group gave money to the inaugural campaign and held their annual meeting, get this, stephanie, if the trump country clump. >> corey lewandowski had been working with some of these pays as well. if jeff bezos only have to pay 2
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or 2.5%. and somebody goes to a pay lender and borrows 300 bucks and ends up paying $2,850. these are riskier borrowers. that's one of the reasons they're in this position. where is the mean? >> that's a fair question. what we decided is as a government, it is focused on ensuring that we don't have user interest rates, the government steps in. maybe you can charge 15 or 20% or maybe 30%. but, when you intoxicate people or get them in this and put them on a path of this downward spiral where they effectively end up every couple of weeks spending more and more of their paycheck on just interests. you have something that's ruining people's lives. the idea of government intervention and regulation here
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makes a lot of sense. you are absolutely right, should these people be able to borrow at 2%? >> no. there is a lot of ground to cover between 2% than 400%. >> remember, regulation is not here to stop business. smart regulation is put in place so good business can move forward and so civilians won't get abuse and taken advantage of. payday lending, one way road to a bad place. >> scott, great to see you. i like the beard, thank you for watching this hour of "velshi and ruhle," i will see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. right now my dear friend katy tur joins us. >> we'll talk about payday lending as well on this show. we have our robert rice on. he's going to talk about that and his book and also the 2020 tax plans being proposed by the democrats. if you want more of that, stay right here, stephanie ruhle.

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