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tv   MSNBC Live With Ayman Mohyeldin  MSNBC  February 10, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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colleague ayman mohyeldin. a lot to break down this hour. the calendar says 2019, but don't be fooled. 2020 is already in full force and underway. senator amy klobuchar just announcing her presidential run. joining a long list of candidates. each hoping for the shot at unseating donald trump. and shutdown part ii. what once seemed inconceivable now seems entirely possible. another government shutdown as negotiations on a deal to appear, at least appears to be crashing and burning as of today. and new details of the chaos engulfing virginia now. the governor saying again he won't step down over a blackface controversial and his lieutenant governor vowing to stay despite serious sexual assault and rape allegations. we begin with another name added to the list of contenders.
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democratic contenders, that is. all want to be president. in a frigid and snow-drenched minnesota, senator amy klobuchar kicking off her campaign just a short time ago. her message -- emphasizing her heart and the heartland. >> i stand before you as the granddaughter of an iron ore miner, as the daughter of a teacher and a newspaperman, as the first woman elected to the united states senate from the state of minnesota to announce my candidacy for president of the united states. >> all right. joining me now, former spokesperson for california's republican party and a hill contributor and a former senior adviser for the democratic national committee. great to have both perspectives this hour. first play for both of you a little more of klobuchar's announcement. watch this. >> we are tired of the shutdowns and the showdowns, of the
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gridlock and the grandstanding. today on this snowy day, on this island, we say, enough is enough. our nation -- our nation must be governed not from chaos but from opportunity. not by wallowing over what's wrong, but by marching inexorably towards what's right. >> doug, klobuchar is seen here as a centrist, trying to position herself as that, using or invoking the mississippi river as a theme throughout this in the midwest part of country. is that what the democratic party needs and wants right now in order to pull off this upset in 2020? >> well, i think that the democratic party is looking for someone who can beat trump. that's the number one priority here and secondly, who can get something done in washington? i think what klobuchar did today i think she checked all the boxes. it was a very good speech.
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it positioned her as a sort of pragmatic person who can get things done, work across the aisles. i think she's trying to show democrats she has broad appeal, emphasizing her midwestern roots. so, yes. i think it's a lane she can occupy and do well in, and serve her well in places like iowa, and other places, and new hampshire. i think it's a lane she can occupy and do well. >> i was going to say. demonstrated a lot of grit standing 0 ut there almost 25 minutes without gloves, giving that speech. there's also obviously a lot of talk. kind of expected when somebody's about to announce their candidacy you get a lot of media going through their record and history finding negative stories one might explore. there's been some of that this week about klobuchar's temperament. buzzfeed reported that, alleging anger, left staffers in tears, threw papers, and sometimes even rolled objects, and one aide was
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accidentally hit with a flying binder according to this buzzfeed report. curious to get your thoughts with trump as a possible opponent, is temperament really an issue when you have a president who's known to be temperamental? >> that's a great question, but in this case, yes, it is, because of how senator klobuchar has positioned her brand. she has positioned herself as a down to earth homegrown gal from the midwest. this aw-shucks persona. if that's the case, that cuts against the p.r. brand she is trying to establish. president trump has been unabashedly this brash new yorker since day one of his campaign, but if you look at the senator here, she is trying to position herself as sort of this nice, midwestern gal. look, there's no doubt about it. she does quite well. i think she'll do quite well in a state like iowa, that early primary state there. she, according to a december
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poll, leapfrogged over the other female candidates there and is running only behind bernie sanders and one other male candidate. she does have sort of that home-grown grit. however, that was before these stories were published, all from democrat staffers, by the way. this isn't a republican hit job. and. does, i think, get verified by these other stories in politico and "huffington post" as well as a non-political tracking service which actually tracks the congress' staff movements and they said that the senator had the highest turnover rate of any senator from 2001 to 2016. so i think there's some fire where there's some smoke. i think this could hurt her brand that she trying to get across. >> fair enough. doug, look at some of those who have already declared for 2020. we've already mentioned some names. you see them there on your screen. what is going to set klobuchar apart from these eight other candidates that have already
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declared and then you throw in the others who are expected to declare? let's start with those on the screen. what is it that will set her apart? >> start with the fact that she comes from the midwest. right? we don't have a candidate now from a midwestern state. has that going for her. she's trying to position herself as a pragmatist. not so much ideological. that's unique in terms of this field. and i think she's putting out there she has broad appeal. she can reach out to independents, republicans, democrats. that's going to be what she really touts, but certainly i think the midwestern values. the fact that democrats did not do well in the midwest in 2016. did much belter in 2018. that's a real selling point for her and i think one thing she'll emphasize. >> hit pause on this conversation a moment and cross over to msnbc's reporter who joins us from boom island where that event just took place. you were there for the
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announcement. what struck from you that speech and what struck you from the event besides the fact folks were standing out in that the 4-degree weather about 2, 2 1/2 hours? >> reporter: yeah. optics were memorable in light of the fact snow is falling on top of us and we've been out several hours. she spoke a long time. about half an hour and the crowd was with her the entire time but she actually stopped by and talked to media after finishing working the rope line and i asked about these headlines. how she's harsh on her staff. she said, i demand a lot of my staff, have high expectations out of them and also high expectations out of this countries. she said the press is free to look into what they want. didn't want to dwell on it. i asked did she think it was gendered. she pushed that question aside. going to iowa and wisconsin kicking off the early days of her campaign. definitely the headlines in the news, asked and answered, didn't want to dwell on them as we
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asked about them here today. >> did you get a chance to hear from her in her speech and speaking through that rope line and oh events. do you know what she's going to distinguish herself from the other candidates that already declared themselves so far? >> reporter: a question we asked in the gaggle. one thing we'll see, how she can push the bipartisan message to the top of the field. it will be interesting. you look how the candidates might break down into lanes. uber progressives lish the bernie sanders types, elizabeth warren types and then sort of the democrats who can reach out to working-class voters that may have voted for president trump in 2016. that's a group of voters i think amy klobuchar will target. you heard it when talking onstage. she wants to be running for everyone and someone who actually in her re-election in 2018 did pretty well in counties that trump won in 2016. among the voters i talked to here today and based on what was said onstage you can bet it's
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something she'll try to do. both bring in the progressive base and not alienating anyone who doesn't like what they see in president trump and looking for someone new to carry their mantle. >> everyone that earned a hot drink it's you. you and the crew, thank you for sticking through that event. stick around. a lot more to break down this hour. coming up, shutdown actually part ii, to be exact. the trump administration hinting another shutdown is possible, if an agreement isn't met on border security funding by friday. this all coming as the president heads to el paso, texas, for a rally tomorrow. will the president get his way or is another government shutdown inevitable. and sitting down with rachel maddow, amy klobuchar. watch "the rachel maddow" show
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and ahead of a possible government shutdown, that possibility growing more likely by the hour. a very bad week for democrats with the great economic numbers, the virginia disaster and the state of the union address. now with the terrible offers made by them to the border community, i actually believe they want a shutdown. they want a new subject.
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here's what's acting chief of staff mick mulvaney said on "meet the press" earlier. >> if is the shutdown entirely off the table? the answer is, no. >> and contributor at the hill and also editor at the atlantic and author of the cover story "the case for impeachment." great to have you with us. five days until funding runs out. hard to imagine we're back here. lawmakers appearing at another standstill. listen to what senator richard shelby had to say about this. >> i don't think we ever give up, but the president will have some options, perhaps we'll have some options but short of a deal, they're not good options. the next 24 hours are crucial. we could close some deals, but they've got to be good to secure our borders. >> not exactly ringing the alarm
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of optimism there. what are the best options here for republicans over the next four, five days? >> you know, here we are again in the same position we were in about a month ago. you mentioned. look, i think this comes down to this being a battle of the bases. you know? nancy pelosi said she would not give, not even $1 to any such wall and then president trump on the other side who must deliver on the wall for his base. for the sake of his own re-election in 2020. i think what you'll see here at the end of this week is, something along the lines of a national emergency. you look at what congress can deliver, i just don't think they're going to deliver a deal. trump himself stead would be a 50/50 likelihood. you'll see a national emergency on the border. there is a provision in the law that would allow president trump to reallocate some defense construction project funding. those are about $10 billion a year. he could take some portion of that, and a lot of people saying
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if he does that it would not stand up in court, but if you look at the national emergencies, there have been 58 that have been declared since the 1970s including the carter era blockade on iranian assets. 38 of those have been upheld to date. he would stand an awfully good chance, i think. >> stick around. i want to bring in kelly o'donnell live at the white house to give the white house perspective and back door negotiations, what are they taking place. kelly, what do you hear about any movement whatsoever? >> reporter: today stands out, no negotiations. at least through the middle of the afternoon according to our sources. what had been the posture for the white house and even speaker pelosi, both had sort of stepped back to allow the committee of appropriators, as they're known in washington speak who do this kind of work and are typically quite capable of reaching some kind of an agreement to do their work. the snag has come with two big areas that you've been talking
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about. how much for a border wall? the white house indicated it would take something less than $5.7 billion, but they're not agreeing to that now. they're just looking at a landscape there might be an installment, if you will, recognizing that negotiation typically means coming somewhere in the middle on numbers, and if that were the case, they would look for other ways to reprogram as it's called in washington some funding that exists elsewhere to also go for a border wall or barrier. democrats are saying that they, in some cases, some fencing would be okay. even barriers. so this negotiating team may get us somewhere on that issue, but the bigger issue that spreezed people today at least publicly. this came to the surface. the number of detention beds for migrants under the custody of immigration and customs enforcement. when there have been sweeps of those who are not documented coming in and then being
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detained, the number of beds is the issue. that, of course, requires an appropriation, it require as policy decision. democrats say fewer beds would mean those would be focused on the most serious offenders. people with a criminal background deported and not on those who are otherwise lawful, perhaps migrant families as an example, as a way to show this difference. the white house is not taking that well. they're saying that would limit their ability to deal with those who could be violent offenders or a danger and that gets the national security piece. a policy divide that looks hard to match up now. >> live from the white house. kelly o'donnell. thank you. back to you on this. the president was hit hard on this. this time around if we see a government shutdown, who will likely get a blame if no deal is reached and the government once again, workers, left again without pay?
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would this still be owned by donald trump the way he said it at that meeting with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi a couple months ago saying, i will own this shutdown? >> the president appears to be the only man in washington who doesn't think he would get the blame for the next shutdown. which is kind of remarkable. he's a man with one political playbook. he runs it over and over again which is appeal to his base. double down on his positions. it worked in the primary, in the general election, worked to keep congressional republicans in line. he keeps going back to run the same play again, now it's not working on nancy pelosi. that seems to have left him in a bit of a bind with no clear way out. >> let me play you a sound bite from senator lindsey graham about this. watch. >> i promise you this. donald trump is not going to sign any bill that reduces the number of bed spaces available to hold violent offenders who come across our border. so if the democrats' goal is to reduce the number of bed spaces available for violent criminals, that would incentivize illegal
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immigration and continuing resolutions are probably where we'll go. >> to that point, is continuing, a continuing resolution, excuse me, is that the way to go until this issue gets hammered out? >> yeah. you'd think this president would want to keep the government open given the political price he paid last time, and i say this. the price that an awful lot of hard working american paid last time when the government shut down. it's nothing somebody particularly eager to go back topthere are deals to be had. let the operators hash it ut 0 and the white house say we'll be okay with whatever comes out that committee. what many hoped would happen when the committee convened. the president seems unwilling to sign off on the compromise they're arriving at and now it will put us back in the same bind. >> jen, the president is heading tomorrow to al pael paso, texas you expect him to declare a national mmp and declare to his base a political victory even though he's being advised by others including mitch mcconnell not do that that and even if
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that decision is bogged down in the courts he could still say i'm trying to do this by any means necessary? >> exactly what could happen end of this week and, look, i'm not even sure why the president gave in on the shutdown, because an nbc news/"wall street journal" poll showed it was nancy pelosi who actually paid the hardest price for that. she dropped six points in the polls during the government shutdown during the month of january 2019. her unfavorable to favorable ratio flipped to a minus 19%. that i didn't quite understand why the president did that, but i do think you're right. i think by end of this week we could see a national emergency order going out nap way president trump can say i did what i pledged to do. nancy pelosi can tell her base i did what i pledged to do, and then the border security can be enhanced in the way that it probably should, given the numbers of folks coming across daily, which now is up to 2,000
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people per day. >> all right. leave it there. thank you both very much. appreciate it. i'd like to bring in my next guest. congresswoman lindsay fletcher of the great state of texas. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us this sunday afternoon. you just heard differences between the trump administration, your own party. what's your take on this? give me your thoughts on exactly what you would need to see in any agreement in order to avoid another government shutdown by this friday? >> well, ayman, thanks for having me this afternoon. i think it's really important to understand that democrats have been opposed to a shutdown from the beginning. for those who are freshmen it was frustrating to come into congress and find the government was already shut down, and democrats, our caucus, spent a lot of time communicating about the hardships it caused on federal workers and the ripple effect throughout our communities and are absolutely
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committed to preventing another shutdown. what we've done is put our trust in the committee of opera appropriators your gusts were discussing and confident we will get, republicans and democrats in the house and senate working together, because we understand the people we represent are the ones hurt by another shutdown. we are committed and i have a lot of confidence in the operatoperat appropriators getting a deal done. >> no doubt congress plays an important role in this debate. the president is heading to el paso tomorrow, we mentioned. i'm sure you're aware of the comments he's been making about that city and in particular during this state of the june yin sjune -- union that crime dropped because of a barrier which isn't correct. used to have a high crime rate and dropped when a wall was constructed. i know you don't tlaehat city b how do you feel the president will be greeted in that city
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after those comments? >> i don't represent el paso. i'm on the other side of the state but sitting a few seats away from veronica escobar who represents el paso and was very clear the statistics the president cited were not accurate and we know crime was decreasing in el paso a decade before the wall was built and afterwards the crime rate did begin to rise. but what congresswoman escobar has said, the mayor has told us, el paso is an incredibly safe city, currently the safest large city over 500,000 people in the country by various metrix and data. it's important and one of the reasons i decided to seek this job in congress, to get back to having real conversations based on the facts. so we can then decide what the best policy is. i think that we know that there's going to be activity in el paso, when the president arri
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arrives. i hope it will help the president see there are other options and all tirch ternativee people are galvanized and willing to work together to come up with an answer. we want to listen to the people represent the border communities and will hurd, one of my colleagues on the other side of the state said he represents the largest section of the border and does not support a border wall. what a lot of folks on my side of the aisle have been saying and freshmen democrats in congress saying we want to get back to a debate, start with the same set of facts and go from there what are the best policy choices. hear from the experts and those affected. that's the goal right now. and i hope that that is what our appropriators are doing and what we'll do continuing to talk about border security. >> congresswoman, time for one last question. your thoughts on a proposal put forward by one of your colleagues. another member of this exciting
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freshmanmen class. alexandria ocasio-cortez, introducing the green new deal this week. your thoughts? it set ambitious goals for cutting carbon emissions and given you're from the state of texas, houston is the heart of big oil in this country. curious to hear your thoughts and reactions to this proposed legislation? do you think it's feasible? >> i think that we really need to listen to the experts and people with all different opinions and data about what it is that we can do. i think we all share an interest and a common goal of making sure that we address the challenge of climate change head-on that we address a lot of 9 inequities raised and it's really important to continue our conversation about our energy future that we hear from everyone. houston isn't just the oil capital. houston is the energy capital of the world. and we are committed here to
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making sure that we are leaders going into the future and that we are a part of the conversation and leading the conversation on how we grow and maintain our planet for our children and grandchildren. >> congresswoman, thank you for making your debut on the show. a standing invite any time. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, the drama in virginia. the lieutenant governor continues to deny charges against him. and he and the governor are willing to testify in impeachment hearings if in fact it happens. the question now, will he be impeacheds? and hear what governor northam has to say about his future which also remains in question this afternoon. on with my bladder leakage,
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all right. not backing down. that's the one thing everyone connected to the political mess in virginia is standing by today. let's starts at the very top. governor ralph northam talking on camera, first time since walking back an apology he no loaninger believes he's actually the racist in that photo. take a listen to this. >> right now virginia needs someone that can heal. there's no better person to do
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that than a doctor. virginia also needs someone who is strong. who has empathy, who has courage and who has a moral compass, and that's why's i'm not going anywhere. >> now to the lieutenant governor, accusing justin fairfax of sexual assault saying they are willing to testify if that happens. fairfax denying the allegations saying the encounters were consensual and calling for an fbi investigation and a new perspective what virginia residents are saying about all this. for that i bring in nbc's mike viqueira, live in richmond at the capitol for us as well as my panel white house reporter darlene superville and doug thornel is back, a former federal prosecutors and msnbc legal analyst mike kirchner. walk us through that fairfax story. said he'd announce the next
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steps by monday. any idea what they might be? >> he put out a statement late last night. what a situation as you described, ayman. a full week we didn't think ralph northam would be governor any more and the person we thought elevated into the office, lieutenant governor justin fairfax has a major scandal of his own. probably in more hot water than the governor himself. this morning we caught up with fairfax outside of his northern virginia home. not talking to the media. he did put out a statement last night. it was his second snamt as many days and at the same time as he did friday, he said he was not going to resign. i'll read part of the statement from yesterday to you. i say again without reservation i did not sexual assault or rain these women. i want to make abundantly clear i knew at the time and i know today the interactions were consensual. he wants an investigation talking about bringing in the
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fbi even though they wouldn't ordinarily get involved in an investigation like that. and both accusers say they would come to richmond and testify in any perspective impeachments hearings. what about ralph northam? whatever happened to him? remember, again, that the beginning of the week we didn't think he would last. he's give than interview to cbs. he's on a public relations tour giving an interview to the "washington post," a number of black leaders from the commonwealth have been here to the governor's mansion, speaking with them privately and sending them out to the news media to testify and attest to the governor's character and that "washington post" poll pap real surprise. no question. while 47% think northam should go and 47% of virginians think he should stay, it is black virginians, 58%, think he doesn't need to go while 37% actually do. ayman? >> all right. live from richmond for us. darlene, your thoughts. how things stand now, the virginia democratic party is
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obviously at a crisis when it comes to who should step down. and i wanted to get your reactions to those polls that mike viqueira cited with virginia residents split even among african-americans. 58% saying he should not step down? >> the poll is interesting. president donald trump tweeted this morning that a lot of african-americans in virginia are angry over the double standard, or what he says is a double standard taking place there. but the "washington post" poll, which shows that more african-americans in the state do not want the governor to step down, pretty much contradicts what the president said in his tweet. so it's just -- it's an interesting dynamic that's at play in the state. >> so what do you make of the democratic party now? obviously, the overwhelming majority of people who came out and declared presidential candidacy for 2020, they're calling for most of these folks
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to resign. both the governor and the lieutenant governor? >> that's right. a lot of that has to do with 2020 politics. right? i mean, the democrats are looking towards virginia in 2020 and they don't want any sort of governor or any type of democratic leadership there that has these issues, particularly issues of race and/or sexual assault. these are two issues that we know have plagued president donald trump to varying degrees, and democrats in general want to be able to go after the president on those issues, and not have similar issues in their own party to deal with. >> doug, as darlene mentioned, the president is reveling in what's going on in virginia. does this put the games that democrats have made in j democrats -- put the gains that democrats made -- >> in virginia, look, democrats had high hopes that they might be able to take back control of
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the senate and the house of delegates this year. obviously, the governor's race is up in 2021. two out of three people with these issues thinking about running for governor. an interesting contest to see if they decide to run for governor or not. nationally i don't think it will be an issue. how is donald trump going to prosecute this against democrats? the guy is obviously someone who has catered to right-wing extremists, both sides argument he made in charlottesville. so i don't know if he has much standing on race to actually be able to prosecute this guring i campaign. sort of laughable. he is a racist, it's said. ocasio-cortez said in her interview. the governor has his own problems to deal with. now also got to worry about the lieutenant governor. i want to play you a little more
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from governor northam's interview responding to whether his lieutenant governor should resign over these sexual assault allegations. >> these accusations are very, very serious. they need to be taken seriously. if these accusations are determined to be true i don't think he's going to have any other option but to resign. >> at this time do you think he should resign? >> that's a decision he needs to make. >> i know he needs to make it. what do you think? >> i want the truth to come out. >> so, he says he wants the truth to come out. how would investigators go about even looking into something like this and is fairfax in any legal jeopardy whatsoever? >> in theory, justin fairfax is in legal jeopardy. in reality, i think it's a tougher call. it seems that there have been two sexual assault allegations. one that occurred in boston in 2004. one that occurred in north
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carolina in 2000. looking at the statute of limitations for those crimes, it looks like both of those crimes could be prosecuted if the police were able to collect adequate evidence to bring a charge. because so much time has passed and apparently there was no reporting of these incidents when they first occurred, it's very difficult for investigators to now collect enough evidence to sort of support the standard at a criminal trial, which would be beyond a reasonable doubt. and i would say the calls for an fbi investigation by justin fairfax, it's encouraging he wants it to be investigated but the fbi really doesn't have jurisdiction. she's are local crimes. one in boston, one in north carolina. i will say after 30 years as a prosecutors, delayed reporting in sexual offense cases is the norm. there's a reason why victims don't come forward. because they feel ashamed and
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embarrassed and they are afraid that people will disbelieve them and the system will treat them poorly. the last murder case i tried was 1995, and as i sit here i can still vividly picture in my mind what the victim went through in that courtroom. first having to retell her story and then having a defense attorney doing his job but trying to make her out to be a liar. en extremely difficult process for victims. >> no doubt about that as we saw in the brett kavanaugh testimony on capitol hill, the difficulty the considdoctor went through. and thank you all very much. appreciate it. and coming up, the global community responds to several bold claims in president trump's state of the union address. we talk about that next.
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time for "we said they said." the state of the union address. >> the beautiful speech. powerful, positive, uplifting and a message of unity. >> i would like to oppose the speech we heard last night to the inaugural speech. the american carnage to the -- choose greatness, what the theme of last night's expose and how the tone has changed. >> there was plenty of bipartisan fare as well in the space of criminal justice reform, kids cancer, hiv.
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>> speaking of the house, nancy pelosi a hot topic of discussion among media overseas. >> she looked absolutely unflappable in that situation, and i think very, very comfortable. of course, nancy pelosi's -- >> a nickname for -- you know she's the only one without that? >> i wonder why. >> i think he respects her. >> well, maybe, yes. >> negative body language from speaker of the house nancy pelosi a few moments of standing when president trump spoke out for typically united policies. however, the body language relatively tense in the room. >> and plenty of strong opinion from across the pond. the "guardian" saying trump consistently lied to americans in his state of the union address. the independent plames trump had his eyes set on 2020 with a speech designed to please conservatives saying he offered a handful of plugs looking to pull the nation together at a time of uncertainty. that's "we said they said."
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more on the president's state of the union, next. have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
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be right back. with moderate to severe crohn's disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. is she alright? i hope so. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible.
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more now on the president's state of the union address. the foreign policy topics singled out, the political uninterest in venezuela. >> we stand with the venezuela
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people in their noble quest for freedom and we condemn the brutality turned that nation from being the wealthiest in south america, into a state of abject poverty and despair. >> all right. those remarks follow accusations by embattled president nicolas maduro alleging president trumpb ordered his murder. national security adviser john bolton denied those accusations saying the u.s. wants a peaceful transfer of power. joining me now, robert mali, vice president of the international crisis group and former special adviser to president obama. robert, good to have you with us. i know that you just returned from venezuela. what's the political situation like on the ground there now? do you see this breaking one way or the other in favor of nicolas maduro or the self-declared president juan guaido?
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>> it's really hard to say. there are two unknowns. one unknown is what the military is going to do. obviously the trump administration and others have been reaching out to the venezuelan military trying to entice them and encourage them to turn against president maduro, to get rid of him then be part of this transition in offering -- guaido, the self-declared president, also offered amnesty. no sign yet of a mass defection by the military and if that doesn't happen, the question will be if maduro is still if power for another week, two weeks, another month, three months, what does the u.s. do? do they decide to intervene militarily? those are the two questions, what does the venezuelan military do and president trump do? >> you brought up an interesting point, the possibility of a u.s. military intervention. that raised a lot of eyebrows this weekend when the opposition leader juan guaido made headlines saying he won't rule out authorizing u.s. intervention. as you can imagine, that received a lot of pushback from members of congress, many saying it's not you that authorizes it, it's the congress that does.
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how much of a problem could this become for the president if congress turns on guiado and turns against the president in authorizing many military force? >> again, who knows, president trump has a mixed relationship to foreign interventions. it doesn't seem to be something he likes to do bullet on the other hand, he has mentioned it he and john bolton mentioned all options are on the table. many members of congress feel strongly against it and riskty to take in venezuela not because venezuela's military is any hatch, i met with members of the military, say they'd melt in front of the hint of a u.s. intervention. it's what happens a day after. we've seen that in case after case after case. this is a country that's awash in weapons. it's a country that has p paramilitary groups, some local, some from colombia. this is not going to be a pretty picture in a country that is already suffering from misery, from diseases, and from a refugee crisis.
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>> robert, let me switch to another topic in the president's foreign policy over the past couple of weeks. his declaration that isis has been defeated. here he is wednesday talking about the offensive. watch this. >> it should be formally announced sometime probably next week that we will have 100% of the caliphate, but i want to wait for the official word. don't want to say it too early. >> all right. so what's your assessment of that, robert? how accurate is the president's statement that isis has been defeated kbo eed both as a cali maybe even as an ideology? >> when i served in the white house under president obama, part of my portfolio was koo coordinating the counter-isis campaign. the physical quasi state that isis had established is more or less gone in iraq and syria. that's true. i think there are other die mentions to the organization. it's an organization that could morph into an insurgency.
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we're seeing that in some parts of iraq. it's also an organization that can inspire others to conduct terrorist operations with which we've seen throughout europe and throughout africa and the rest of the world. so it's one thing to say, and it is is true that as a physical quasi state, proto state, the project that isis had embarked on, is going to be defeated if it's not defeated already. other aspects still need to be tended to, and those are not over, obviously. >> all right. to that point, what needs to be done to make sure that there isn't an insurgency from isis, either in syria or other parts of iraq? and more importantly, how do you then, you know, combat the war against the ideology of isis extremism that can, as you mentioned, go beyond syria and iraq and elsewhere? >> right. this is a generational struggle which is why the metaphor for war against terrorism has also always been one i found grating and wrong. this is not a war, this is a long-term struggle against -- it's an ideology that has
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different dimensions. some is military, only is irons of development, issues of political inclusion. this is not something that we're going to be able to declare one day it's over. there will always be groups that are going to rise up. some of them are going to resort to terrorist means and i think we're wrong if we think about this purely in military terms which is why the endless wars have to end and on this, i think president trump is correct. endless wars have to end because it's not through military presence that one is going to take care of these groups and sometimes a military presence and military operations fuel the anger and the alienation, the marginalization, of communities then find some sympathy toward these terrorist groups. >> is yeah. could certainly be a vicious psych b cycle that's hard to br of. robert malley live if washington, d.c., always appreciate your insights. coming u on "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton former teacher of the year and newly elected congresswoman elena hayes, thoughts on chaos in virginia
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and what needs to be done to avoid a government shutdown. you're watching msnbc. atching m. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. needles. fine for some things. but for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. an "unjection™".
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television interview since copping to blackface as a pivot from another racial scandal, democratic virginia governor ralph northam says he is staying on to upgrade his state. >> yes, i have thought about resigning, but i've also thought about what virginia needs right now. and i really think that i'm in a position where i can take virginia to the next level, and it will be very positive. >> but northam also told cbs' gayle king that he doesn't think virginia lieutenant governor justin fairfax can stay in office if dual allegations of sexual assault are found to be true. >> if these accusations are determined to be true, i don't think he's going to have any other option but to resign. >> at this time, do you think he should resign? >> that's going do be a decision that he needs to make. >> gloating over it, of

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