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tv   MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson  MSNBC  February 11, 2019 7:00am-8:00am PST

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her organization imagination library has donated more than 115 million books to children across the world. dolly parton, she ain't working 9:00 to 5:00. that woman has been devoting herself to making this world a better place for decades. that wraps us up this hour. coming up now, more news with hallie jackson. >> she hang the heck out of "jolene" with miley. >> that's one of my all time favorite songs. >> we're going to play it later just for you. >> i am hallie jackson in washington. this morning it's the deadline and the deadlock with the shutdown breakdown and talks to avoid a second government closure this year. one congresswoman is joining us to talk sticking points, where she sees compromise and the reality check on whether there's a shutdown on friday. the question is not whether the government is open and who will be running it.
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our new report on the impeachment threat suddenly shrinking for the lieutenant governor while the governor promises to stay in office talkital talking today about white privilege and blackface. >> you didn't know the history? >> i think we're all on a learning curve. >> plus the two women getting into the 2020 mix. how to take on donald trump and the new twist involving jeff y bezos' fight against the inquirer. we start with the breakdown and shutdown talks. this time it's not because of the border wall the president wants. the main sticking point is the number of beds in ice detention centers. democrats want to limit the beds to put a lid on how many
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immigrants the government can detain. the president will be met by protesters and by a counterrally as well. he'll also be met by kristen welker on the road for us along with kasie hunt on capitol hill. this for the president is going to be a time to get out there in front of a friendly crowd and try to sell his shutdown message. >> reporter: and you know the president loves being out on the trail. he loves when he's got those big crowds around him really fires him hup. his focus is going to be this fence. this barrier here in el paso. it stretches about 40 miles. it's about 16 feet high, 18 feet depending on where you're standing. he's going to make the argument that this barrier has made this community safer. now, of course we remember he made a similar argument during his state of the union address, and he got some fact checkers who came out and said important to point out that crime actually started decreasing even in the
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years before this barrier went up. nonetheless, it is going to be his key focus tonight. it does come as talks have stalled between lawmakers on capitol hill with that second government shutdown looming potentially for this friday. as you pointed out, one of the key sticking points, the detention beds. top adviser kellyanne conway seized upon that today. listen to what she had to say to democrats. >> the president is not part of the negotiations. he's waiting for a bill to come to his desk that he can sign into law, and you now have the bipartisan people arguing over beds and barriers. we want more beds. they want fewer because they want more people to come into the united states of america. >> this is what president trump said on twitter. the democrats do not want us to detain or send back criminal aliens. this is a brand new demand. crazy. really, trying to get the democrats to own this latest
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sticking point. now, of course, you talked about the fact that there are going to be protesters here and a big counterrally. it is going to be a pretty remarkable split screen. o'roarke is going to be headlining that other rally. he's the former congressman here. he failed in his bid to take on ted cruz. and now he's mulling a potential 2020 bid. his message tonight, he's going to be holding a march before hand. he said it's going to be a peaceful march. it's stop the lies, stop the wall. celebrate the el paso community. it's going to be quite the faceoff later this morning. >> you're there. garrett haake is there. ali is there as well. kasie hunt is holding it down on the hill. it seems inexplicable we're here again talking about the potential for a second shutdown this year. what are lawmakers going to do about it? we've just learned the top four negotiators here on capitol hill are going to meet this afternoon. we think around 3:30 or so so
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discuss how to restart these talks. because the reality is as of yesterday morning, they had stalled completely as you were just talking about. it is over this seemingly new issue of detention beds. i think we should point out this has always been a simmering piece of the negotiation all the way along. immigration advocates in particular backed up by democrats have been concerned very deeply about how the trump administration is enforcing immigration law in the interior of the country, and they almost view this as a more important policy piece even than the wall which is, of course, become something of a symbol of this president and everything that he stands for. but there is some risk for the democrats in bringing this up at the last minute. to a certain extent, it's harder to message than the wall, and the administration is taking a hard line, and they're arguing
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this is the first step towards abolishing ice when you have private conversations with them. that's a position that some democrats on the left of the party have taken. i think it gives you an idea of how quickly the rhetoric around this has gotten extreme. and the question is going to be can democrats convince their base that this is, in fact, an idea that is worth potentially risking a government shutdown over? because the reality is that's where we are. and you can tell how dramatically things have changed on the hill in the last 72 hours or so by listening to richard shelby, the top republican negotiator here on capitol hill. here's a little bit of him talking on thursday, and then how he sounded yesterday morning on fox news sunday. take a look. >> i think that we're on a positive trajectory course now. i see some sunshine. >> talks are stalled right now. i would say 50/50 we get a deal. >> so that's a pretty succinct
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way of summing up where things stand here. i think we will have a better idea at the end of the day just how dire this situation is. you know, they could avoid a shutdown with a temporary fix, a continuing resolution of some length. so that is a possible way out. but right now it's just really not clear how we avoid this again on friday. >> all right. kasie hunt with the ominous warning from capitol hill. let me bring in anna palmer, and sawhill. there's a couple ways this plays out. government shutdown, national emergency. maybe this one year continuing resolution. you have new reporting on where things stand at the moment. >> right. this thing comes back to the issue of deportation prioritization. that's been an issue since 2011. they said let's go easy on undocumented immigrants. that's a poison pill for republican hard liners including
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steven miller. he's opposeed this tooth and nail from the start. this is one of the deals the 2018 deal fell through. the white house and trump did not accept the deal of prioritizing some people over other people. they think it gives people a green light to come into the country if they behave. >> do you think it's tough to see a way out of how to avoid this on friday? >> i'm thinking optimistic today. >> i'm into it. happy monday. >> the darkest day on capitol hill can be where the light comes out. we're a couple days away. there's time. i think what's going to be interesting is republicans have really owned the shutdown. the president owned the last shutdown. democrats do not want to get blamed for being the sticking point and the reason why they can't come to a deal. >> this is still, for 35 days in a row and this affects human beings. people in their living rooms and kitchens talking about this. there are government workers
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dealing with this shutdown hangover. some of them still have not gotten their back pay. some government contractors are still not back to work two weeks now after that last partial closure ended. this thing could just stretch into the next one. >> this is why it's unclear how hard democrats are going to fight for this issue. >> right. i think one of the things you saw was democrats came out unscathed. this has been pushing off the funding fight, pushing off the fight on the border wall has been a two-year fight, a proxy fight for who is controlling washington. i don't think there's an appetite for another long-term shutdown. >> it's not flashy. it's not the wall. but the passions are high when it comes to interior enforcement. >> and deep. >> this is a good turning point. florida democratic congresswoman, thank you for coming back on the show. a couple key points to get you on here as we continue the conversation. if there were a one-year continuening resolution basically, that keeps funding at current levels, would you
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support it? >> well, first, i lived with continuing resolutions during the entire time i was in the clinton administration. so it's not unusual when you can't reach an agreement on appropriations. they're trying not to do that. and i have confidence in these appropriators. it's not unusual to hit a snag near the end, and it's not just beds. i mean, we're talking about how we treat and obey the law aboutabout about amnesty. these are budget people. they're putting a budget together for the department of homeland security, and they're arguing over what parts the democrats want to submit. what parts the republicans want to submit. i believe they're going to reach an agreement. there was no one in this capital who wants to see a shutdown. >> you are optimistic that there will not be a shutdown come friday? that there will be some kind of
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solution that enough people will support? >> my birthday is on thursday. i expect the appropriators to give me a birthday present. it will be everybody stays at work. >> i'm sure hundreds of thousands of federal workers are hoping you get that present. on this idea of a shutdown, kellyanne conway was out this morning. the white house has been talking to our team saying listen, they think this time for this shutdown, if it were to happen, come friday, because negotiations are in the hands of congress, it is lawmakers and specifically democrats who would be to blame. is that -- >> no. democrats and republicans. it's both parties that now have to negotiate an agreement. these are appropriators. these are the people that put budgets together. and the president is not involved as far as i know in these negotiations. either of the rest of us that are not appropriators. i have confidence in them. i'm used to negotiations that fall apart at the last minute and then are brought together
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again. so with a little bit of prayer and a little bit of tape, i think they're going to be able to put this together. >> okay. so then if they don't put it together, if the worst case scenario happens, does the white house have a point? is it congress's fault? >> look, it's the president's fault in the first place. we wouldn't be here if the president hadn't messed up the negotiations in the first place and caused the government to shut down. so he created this atmosphere, this culture, this situation. he doesn't get off the hook. >> before i let you go, two quick questions. one, if it were to come down to a continuing resolution, it sounds like you would be okay with that, if that's what it had to be to keep the government open? >> only if the appropriators felt they couldn't do anything else. but you know, crs are not great. you always new money. need new money for judges. we are -- the debate over the beds is not really a debate over beds. it's how we handle amnesty
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applications and whether we have enough judges so we don't have to hold people as if they're criminals as opposed to people that are applying for amnesty. i think they're going to get it done. i have confidence in the appropriators, both the republicans and the democrats. >> and just switching gears quickly here before we let you go. some of your democratic colleagues have criticized congresswoman for omar for tweets they denounced as anti semitic. we're putting them on screen. do you agree and should the congresswoman apologize? >> i actually put out a statement myself. there's no place for anti semitism. i have zero tolerance for anyone, no matter who they are that makes anti semitic remarks. that ought to be in place in this country. it's abhorrent, and it's simply wrong. >> would you like to see an apology? >> well, she more than an apology. i hope that we're able to
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educate all of our colleagues about appropriate statements. they're hurtful. they're hurtful. i'm an arab american, and i find them hurtful. >> okay. i appreciate your perspective and for coming back on the show to talk through all of this with you. a question of what message works better? fight or unite? the contrast on display for democrats and just who the president is targeting now. plus the three storms brewing in virginia where this morning there's a new development related to impeachment proceedings and why they may not happen after all. we'll explain as the governor apologizes but insists he's not going anywhere. >> i was born in white privilege, and that has implications to it. it is much different the way a white person such as myself is treated in this country. >> did you not know that you were born into white privilege? i don't keep track of regrets.
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jeff bezos. jeff bezos. the lieutenant governor in virginia may be worrying a little less about impeachment given what has been happening in the last couple hours. with one key lawmaker backing down from that threat. this is the latest movement in a messy storm of scandals surrounding the biggest democratic names in the state. but no one is stepping down. not the lieutenant governor who is denying the sexual assault allegations against him and not the governor reiterating he will not resign in this new tv interview. >> virginia also needs someone
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who is strong, who has empathy, who has courage and who has a moral come pass, and that's why i'm not going anywhere. >> northam insists the racist yearbook picture is not him. geoff bennett has been covering this story from the start. he joins us live from richmond, virginia. geoff, the lieutenant governor has give an new interview just in the last couple minutes, i think, talking about the accusations against him? >> reporter: yeah. that's right. he's talked now to the root and "the washington post," and he's been telling the same story all along. he says the two encounters in question were consensual. he's denying these two accusations of sexual assault. so he is getting a bit of a break because as you mentioned, patrick hope, the democratic virginia state legislator who on friday threatened articles of impeachment is backing off. here's what happened. i'm told this legislator sent a
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draft via e-mail to a budge of his democratic colleagues and he got an ear full. part of the issue is that this legislature is a part time legislature. they're on track to end the session at the end of the month. they don't want to muck up the engine of legislating with an impeachment proceeding. that's the bit about fairfax. let's start at the top or go back to the top with the governor who is saying he's staying put. he's not going to resign. he says this entire blackface scandal is a teachable moment. i'm told he spent much of the week meeting with african american faith leaders and legislators. they told him if you say you're going to take responsibility, back up your mea culpa with policy. how about money for hbcus? how about criminal justice reform? now the governor is suggesting that he's going to take that to heart. but that said, he's still putting some pressure on his number two, justin fairfax. look at what he said this morning on cbs. >> if these accusations are
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determined to be true, i don't think he's going to have any other option but to resign. >> so justin fairfax is calling for an fbi investigation into the allegations. that might not ever happen. the fbi doesn't just start investigations because it's asked to, and these allegations might well fall outside of its jurisdiction. i can tell you that fairfax and his team are weighing options. they want some sort of full independent investigation into all of this so he can clear his name. the two female accusers say those encounters were not consensual and they're sticking by their stories as well. >> geoff, hang tight. let me bring in anna. "the washington post" has new numbers on polling looking at whether governor northam should step down. 58% of african americans think he should not. 57% of virginia democrats think he should not. 40 % of all virginia democrats think he should not. does this in your view indicate that perhaps northam has some
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breathing room to stay where he is? >> i think the big question is going to be -- it's not so much public sentiment. it's what happens with the elected officials? so many people have called on him to step down. he's clearly not yielding to that. you saw him this morning. he's staying strong saying he's not going anywhere. the question will be how long can that last? >> it's the same question for the lieutenant governor. as you're looking at that video of him walking out of his house, heading to the capitol. in session in virginia at noon today. >> it seems like the succession crisis is on the minds of california democrats. these three, if they step down, the governor, the lieutenant governor and the attorney general, the power goes to the republican speaker of the house. after all this effort to win full power in a redistricting cycle, they don't want to give that up. and yes, of course african american opinions matter. they have been the most affected by the issues>> absolutely. geoff, i know you don't have a crystal ball. i'm not going to ask you to
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predict the future, but you've been on the ground for the last week and a half or week as long as this has been going on. >> reporter: yeah. >> it seems from our vantage point here in d.c., like things have shifted a bit from the early days. i was talking to sources saying the pressure is building on northam. then the fairfax revelations happened that he's denied. what's your sense of where the sentiment is in richmond at the capitol there? >> reporter: i think we're in a holding pattern. in part because there is no mechanism to remove the governor from office, at least not easily. you have the republican house speaker saying he's not bringing impeachment up for northam. he doesn't think that photo met the bar. it's also hard to remove the governor. northam holds all the cards. he's not going anywhere. justin fairfax as we know, at least as i stand here and talk to you isn't going to resign. he feels to step down now would be an admission of guilt. and mark herring has found some
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support in the way he handled his issue. he addressed it. he got in front of it. he was contrite. he reached out privately to african american lawmakers. at the moment there is no external pressure on either one of these three men politically speaking to have any of them step down on their own volition. >> geoff bennett who has made his new home in richmond, virginia. thank you for joining us. up next, the first rule of the 2020 fight club? do talk about who you're fighting and why. one candidate is with elizabeth warren taking aim at the legal questions surrounding the trump campaign and administration. >> by the time we goat to 2020, donald trump may not even be president. in fact, he may not even be a free person. >> up next, whether that confrontational style will get warren past the primaries and why some candidates are making a different bet. t bet.
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what i said to him back was i'd like to see when he called me a snow woman, i'd like to see how his hair would fair.
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>> that clap back comes courtesy of amy klobuchar who announced her run for the white house in a whiteout in minnesota. in an interview she's brushing off the president's tweet calling her a know woman but promising she will not get bogged down by every donald trump dig. she's the latest candidate in a race that is already breaking records for women. as of this weekend, a quarter of all democratic women in the senate are running for president. joining us now, vice president of communications at emily's list, melissa reynolds, and sahil and anna. amy klobuchar is taking an interesting policy position. she's a more moderate democrat compared to elizabeth warren who announced her run. here's where she stands.
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on medicare for all she's stayed out of that mix. she has not signed on to the single payer bill. she supports the green new deal, path to citizenship for most undocumented immigrants. is this winnable in the primaries not general election stance for her? >> i think we have a lot of time to see that. i think what's exciting is amy proves there's not one women's lane. women represent the bulk of the top tier. they represent most of the candidates right now. and they have positions that run the gamut there. within a spectrum. the nice thing about being a democrat is we share certain values and she fits within that. so i think we're going to see what voters think. >> and the medicare for all piece is an interesting piece. it's becoming a litmus test for democrats in the primary and beyond. >> it polls well nationally. it polls off the charts with democratic voters.
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you have gillibrand and booker and bernie sanders considering a run, he's signed onto this. the paradox of kolobuchar is he popularity in the midwest. >> she's heading to wisconsin and iowa soon. >> absolutely. and she's done that by staying away from the hot button progressive issues. i don't think that's how you win a democratic primary. if she does, she could be formidable in general. >> one of the things was the articles that have come out recently with unnamed former staffers saying klobuchar was a tough boss and mistreated them in some ways. here's how she responded on good morning america. >> first of all, i love my staff. i wouldn't be where i am and we wouldn't be able to pass all those bills and do all that work if we didn't have a great staff. i am tough. i push people. that is true. but my point is that i have high expectations for myself. i have high expectations for the people that work for me.
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and i have high expectations for this country. >> is the idea that she is kind of a tough boss a gendered critique? >> i think we always look at how people are in their public life and their private lifer, how they treat people. amy klobuchar on the hill is personable to reporters. she comes across as very warm, midwestern, making casseroles and hot dishes. i think the rumors of her being a tough boss on capitol hill have been around for a long time. i think the facts are there in terms of the number of different chiefs of staff and other staffs she's cycled through. she'll have to deal with it. >> a lot of men are tough bosses too. >> i think what's important to look at, a tax on woman or not, inherently sexist. are we holding women to different metrics than men? that's something we as reporters and people who work in politics have to ask ourselves. would i complain if the man had the same attack thrown at him? would it be a nonstarter or
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something he had to answer for? that remains to be seen here. >> elizabeth warren formally launched her run. she was the first one with an exploratory committee. it's official for her. unlike cory booker who sort of preached this unity message, warren has gone off donald trump. he's gone after her. she made a comment this weekend that alluded to the legal question surrounding the president and his administration. >> here's what bothers me. by the time we get to 2020, donald trump may not even be president. in fact, he may not even be a free person. >> now, not every democrat is taking that strategy, but senator warren is making the bet that's what's going to work. >> she has been as you alluded to, attacking back and forth on twitter. she's not necessarily the warm and fuzzy candidate.
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this is how she perceives her public persona is to hit back, to be the opposition to this president. >> yeah. >> it's a bet that it's not a unity moment in the democratic party. 2008 was unity with president obama no red states, blue states. they saw him get elected. he was obstructed because of who he was and what he represented to the opposition. i think that's why i think warren and harris are polling better than the rest of the field. >> i think that's fair, but we're early in the process. what remains to be seen. i worked on obama. i can tell you he hit john mccain pretty hard. some of it is how you communicate it and what you wrap it in when you talk about it. i don't think cory booker is a fan of donald trump. >> he's made that clear. but he's also talked about love and hope and unity. and that's been more of his message than from senator warren. >> sure. i think we need to see what different primary voters react to. that's still up in the air. >> and still 21 months away before we know.
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i'll be seeing you for the next 21 months. up next a new twist in the tabloid story putting a publisher against the world's richest man. the new interview about bezos' explosive expose and who may or may not have leaked his picks in the first place. e first place.e, it's never too early for coffee. oh no no no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. who is that ready this early? it's only 7 am. somebody help me. close call. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast and a warm welcome. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton.
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believe i am writing about bezos' sex life for the second time in two weeks, let alone about his penis. us either. this story is taking a new twist in the history over who leaked the text messages the enquirer. the brother of the alleged misremi mistress says it wasn't him. >> what happened was the story was given to the enquirer by a reliable source who had given information to the enquirer for seven years prior to the story. it was a source well known to both mr. bezos and miss sanchez. bezos accused the enquirer of trying to blackmail him. nbc news has not independently reviewed the e-mails in the post. kara swisher joins us now along
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with the senior vice president for social justice at the news school. thank you for being with us. mia, i want to start with you. michael sanchez, the brother in this instance says he's not the leaker. the attorney for the enquirer says -- could he face legal charges? >> it depends on how he got the communications. yes, it's possible. and i think the question is going to be pertinent to what kind of exposure ami also faces. right? because depending on how ami got the text messages and the photographs, they could be subject to a possible criminal investigation on wire fraud, for example. >> into how they got it if it turns out they used illegal or questionable methods to get them? >> correct. >> one of the things you're writing about is how aggressive bezos is being when it comes to exposing this. you say most revealing is it is
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perhaps the best illustration of the in the your face aggressiveness that's made him the richest man in the world and arguably the most important tech visionary since steve jobs. is he about the only guy who could stand up to the enquirer? >> no. there's a lot of people who could, but it's time. they're pictures of his leathne regions. he had had it. he wanted to expose what was going on within ami and their methods. i think on that face, it's a fantastic story. there's al insinuations of links to trump, the saudis and other things and how these things were obtained by the enquirer and how, and whether they broke laws doing it. >> michael sanchez reportedly a trump supporter. the attorney for pecker was out on gma or this sunday on abc, and said hey, this wasn't blackmail. i want to play what he said. >> it's absolutely not extortion and not blackmail. >> it's part of a negotiation.
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look, it's a news decision to decide whether how many times you're going to write the same story. the story was already out there. i think people misunderstand that this was a post publication negotiation to resolve the outstanding issues. >> from a legal perspective, do you think the inquirer can make the case that this was a matter of journalism. this was a news decision? >> it's an up hill battle. i think they have an argument to assert. let me say that. the first amendment is an extremely important amendment. and courts have been protective of news organizations in order to ensure that we have free speech in this country including sometimes allowing them to publish lies. as long as they didn't have reason to know they were lies. but in this case, the reason this is a problem for ami in terms of extortion is that the statute is very clear that if you are threatening someone's
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reputation in order to get a thing of value for yourself, in this case ami, remember c wwas commanding bezos asserts speech that their coverage of the news issues was legitimate. and to try to thwart his investigation into their activities and, in fact, whether they had anything to worry about. and they're under an agreement with the southern district of new york not to engage in any criminal activity whatsoever. they have a business interest in forcing someone else to say positive things that support their credibility, particularly if they are potentially in violation of that agreement. that skirts so close to the law, i think it's very tough. >> that's a vet entrancgreat an. there's another piece of yours that i found interesting.
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you wrote bezos has the ability to use his huge digital reach in all kinds of ways and he may be tempted to do so in situations where the villians aren't as obvious. you say i doubt he would, but he could. >> i think all these people could. you remember the gawker and peter teal thing. these billionaires can go off and do what they want. in this case, obviously these people are appalling. >> obvious villians. >> in fact, this negotiation idea is crazy. no journalist does this. this was quid pro quo for something. but i think that you wonder what they could do going forward, what anybody could do with enormous power. he's opening up and gone to his own lawyers. he can do his own investigations and you wonder where it leads given how many billionaires there are running around with these kind of abilities to do this. >> i have a feeling it's not the last time we'll talk about this story. thank you both. appreciate your perspective. >> thank you. >> after the break, one of robert mueller's top prosecutors is dropping a new clue about
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possible ties between russia and the trump campaign. how comments in a closed door hearing hinted what might be at the heart of that russia investigation. you're going to want to watch. ♪ did you know you can save money by using dish soap to clean grease on more than dishes?
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it was almost an aside. almost buried in a closed door court session. an offhand comment by one of robert mueller's prosecutors, but just those couple of sentences macy have a key clue about the investigation. redrakted transcripts she prosecutors believe manafort have been working for ukraine and keeping in touch with his russian associate indicted by mueller last year. prosecutors think they kept talking about their lobbying work until last year. so why does that matter? well, that's what the judge asked. and that's when the prosecutor dropped that cryptic comment. suggesting the reason they care about the conversations goes to the larger view of what they think is going ton, quote, and what we think is the motive here. let me bring in ken vogel, "the new york times" political reporter behind the story along
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with former deputy assistant attorney general harry lipman. explain why the comment seems light it could be significanthe >> well, because the manafort case in particular, paul manafort being a central target of the mueller investigation, has seemed to deal with all manner of things that happened before the presidential campaign, related to paul manafort's work on behalf of pro-russian figures in ukraine, and then sort of pivoting and becoming about his lying after he breached his plea agreement. but this is the first time where we've really seen them try to link manafort to what they describe as the core of the investigation. our understanding is that the conversations in question started during the campaign while paul manafort was still on the campaign in august of 2016. they appear to be dealing with this russian associate of his,
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klimnik, and klimnik's plan for a brokered negotiation/peace deal between ukraine and russia, that our understanding and our sources tell us would favor russia. so this is sort of potentially, if you're looking for the quid pro quo, you see the quid, the work by russia, and the meddling in the election. what is the quo? you have at least the potential of building a theory around the fact that the quo would be a peace deal that would favor russia and potentially result in the lifting of u.s. sanctions against russia which, of course, is the biggest driving foreign policy objective of the russians. >> harry, you talk about the idea of a nuanced reading of the transcripts. you hone in on something the prosecutor said. talking about the core of the russia investigation, he said, what is as far as i can go. why did you key in on that piece? >> yeah, first of all, really meticulous and elegant reporting
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by ken and his friends. when weisman says, that's act as far as i can go, you know he is at a radioactive core that he can't reveal, even in a closed door hearing. what he is proposing, even though it is heavily redacted, as ken says, seems a kind of grand bargain involving not simply a sweetheart deal for russia and ukraine, but the lifting of sanctions, which putin dearly wanted. and the glue that holds it all together on the u.s. side are the personal financial interests of the actors. manafort to make money. flynn to do something with the sanctions. trump to build his big crown jewel of the trump tower. so it really seems to be getting toward quite a grand scheme, where officials are feathering their nests at the expense of u.s. national interests, and doing russia's bidding in a sense. >> still a lot we don't know about robert mueller's investigation, about this as a
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whole. when you pull back a little bit, somebody who is also looking at this is, of course, democrats on the house oversight committee led by adam schiff. he was on the set with chuck over the weekend. here's a little of what he had to say. >> the people who were closest to watching father and son during the campaign, people like steve bannon, have said that there is zero chance that don junior did not discuss that meeting with his father before it happened or after it happened. >> should you have waited until there was evidence before speculating about that? >> the point i made was not speculation. the point i made was, we should find out. we should get those records. >> okay. >> you can't run a cred bible investigation if you don't look for documentary proof, assume everybody is telling the truth. we've seen the problems of that approach. >> schiff with intel, not oversight, of course. when you look at the way he is running that investigation, reupping that now that the democrats control the house, how do you see it playing out? >> well, hallie, i mean, he
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doesn't have to -- there is a different burden for house intelligence and any congressional oversight versus a federal investigation. >> right. >> the house intelligence committee doesn't have to show crimes. they don't have to lay out their findings in charges, which is what mueller is doing. that's why, frankly, this hearing transcript was so interesting. this is not related to any of the charges that he has brought thus far. it is related to him violating a plea agreement. but you see the potential paths that someone could take this, especially someone who doesn't have to lay out their findings in charges. >> harry, one of my colleagues at nbc news, mike memoli, is writing about adam schiff, that he is stepping into donald trump's line of fire, as it is on nbc news.com. he writes, there may not be a more fitting duel than a president who watches cable tv and a powerful figure who is often on it. should donald trump worry about what adam schiff has to say? >> oh, i think so.
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and schiff -- also, it is a formidable group. schiff, cummings, and nadler. they're working pretty closely with mueller. we now have, by the way, a second, big meeting with the june meeting. we have this august 2nd meeting with kilimnik. that's going to figure in large. i think for both schiff, as he said, and mueller, this is the sort of big event you don't do in a half-baked way. you want to tie the loose ends together. it is another reason they won't be coming out and proclaiming this grand conspiracy until they unearth the details. >> harry and ken, thank you for joining us. we'll be back with what our sources are saying and today's big picture. 's big picture. but i realized something was missing... me. the thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira can help get, and keep, uc under control
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time to get a look at what our sources are saying. anna, we had congresswoman on earlier, asking her about the comments being denounced by a number of democrats. anti-semitic. >> there is a letter circulating on the house democratic side that democrats are signing onto, trying to urge nancy pelosi and the other house democratic leaders to come out aggressively against what she is saying. so far, on twitter and through her spokesperson, omar is not moving. >> not backing down from it? >> nope. >> sahill, we were talking about medicare for all becoming a litmus test for democrats. it is a policy issue you are immersing yourself in. >> the debate is revving up.
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bernie sanders intends to introduce his bill in the senate. last session, it was co-sponsored by multiple presidential candidates. there will be hearings on it. it'll be a hell of a debate. >> you guys are bringing it today. thank you, much. out of time for today's big picture. craig melvin is demanding his show on time. i defer to you. take it away. >> hallie jackson, that's not true, but thank you. craig melvin here. texas showdown. president trump taking his case for border security to the lone star state. to counter the president's message, potential 2020 candidate, o'rourke, will taking to the streets to march against the wall. fight or unite? it is a tale of two messages from the growing field of 2020 candidates. which message will resonate with voters? and the billionaire versus the tabloid. bezos calling the threat of publishing his private pictures bl

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