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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  February 18, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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"today" show. i will see you back here at 3:00 p.m. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicole wa nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. he's the man who was left holding the fbi together when donald trump abruptly fired fbi director jim comey. he's the man who opened the counterintelligence information into donald trump to probe whether he's an agent of russia. he's a witness to donald trump's efforts to obstruct the investigation into his campaign's contacts with russia, he's a witness to rod rosenstein's contemplation of wearing a wire. inside the white house to secretly record the president. and discussions about the 25th amendment, he triggered donald trump to near derangement on social media, and he's a man who may now lose everything over allegations that he lied to the fbi about a leak to "the wall street journal." now for the very first time since he was fired, he speaks. in an interview with "60
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minutes" last night former acting director andrew mccabe talked about rosenstein's offer to wear a wire in the west wing. >> he said, i never get searched when i go into the white house. i can easily wear a recording device. they wouldn't know it was there. now, he was not joking. he was absolutely serious and, in fact, he brought it up in the next meeting we had. i never actually considered taking him up on the offer. i did discuss it with my general counsel, and my leadership team back at the fbi after he brought it up the first time. >> the general counsel of the fbi and leadership team you spoke with said what about this idea? >> i think the general counsel had a heart attack. when he got up off the floor, said that's breath too far. we're not there yet. >> the president in ten tweets just this weekend at our last counting making clear that mccabe strikes a nerve of the one of the most aggressive tweets from the president coming just this morning when he wrote
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this, wow, so many lies by now disgraced acting fbi director andrew mccabe. he was fired for lying and now his story gets more deranged. he and rod rosenstein, hired by jeff sessions, another beauty, looked like they were planning a very illegal act and got caught. there's a lot of skplaniexplain do to the millions of people who had just elected a president that they really like. sorry. and who has done a great job for them with the military, vets economy and so much more. this is the illegal and treasonous insurance policy in full! if you're in your car. and mccabe also spoke about the level alarm in the fbi over trump's actions around james comey's firing and why those actions led him to open that counterintelligence investigation into the president. >> the idea is if the president committed obstruction of justice, fired the director of
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the fbi to negatively impact or to shut down our investigation of the russia's malign activity and probably support of his campaign, as a counter-gent investigator, you have to ask yourself, why would the president of the united states do that? all of those same sorts of facts cause us to wonder is there an inappropriate relationship, a connection between this president and our most fearsome enemy, the government of russia? >> are you saying that the president is in league with the russians? >> i'm saying that the fbi had reason to investigate that. the existence of an investigation doesn't mean someone is guilty. i would say, scott, if we failed to open an investigation under those circumstances, we wouldn't be doing our jobs. >> and that's where we start today with some of the our favorite reporters and friends. former chief of staff at the cia and pentagon, jeremy bash.
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mimi rocah, former assistant u.s. toeattorney. with us on set former u.s. prosecutor paul butler. and author of "everything trump touches dies" and jean-pierre is back. jeremy, i want to start with you and something getting lost in all of this. is trump's smear, it isn't just on a career public servant when he attacks mccabe. i read his book. i got an advanced copy. he served for years fighting the russian mob and bush years fighting terrorism and then worked for robert s. mueller during the obama -- this is someone's who career never bobbed and weaved in the development of the united states of america. so the idea this person is at the center of our investigating any sort of investigation into donald trump because of any politi
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politics seems just brazen on the president's part. >> it's actually on the contrary, nicolle. he's a 21-year veteran of the fbi, senior professional law enforcement official who said he was a lifelong republican but his northstar had always been investigating crimes and national security threats of the united states. when he ascended the lad irof the leadership of the bureau, he no political agenda but he was really concerned because the russia investigation had come to a point where they were looking at what russia had done to interfere in the election. but i think it came as a huge shot to andy mccabe and the other senior bureau and doj leaders that in fact the president was supporting the russians' efforts to support the president's election, and then in fact the president was trying to get in the way through a standing of the gears and obstruct the investigation. all of that when you added it up basically equaled a poem counterintelligence threat by nobody other than the president of the united states.
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i would urge anybody, nicolle, who has doubts about mccabe or wonders what this is all about, watch that "60 minutes" interview front to back and make your own assessments. i think you'll conclude andy mccabe is very credible and he is saying very alarming things. >> i want to go into what you raised, and that is the counterintelligence investigation opened after the firing of fbi director jim comey. this was first reported by "the new york times." this is the first time in this interview, and i agree with your viewing recommendation. every should watch the "60 minutes" interview in its entirety. but what we have in this testimony on television and in the book from andy mccabe is a new interpretation of what the firing of jim comey was. we've processed it and we covered it although it was an act of obstructing, stopping the russia probe, of comey saying trump asked him to let flynn go, it was about stopping the
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investigation. what's been turned on its head is that the obstruction, the request to obstruct, was perhaps another act of including colludg or conspireing with vladimir putin. explain that to me and our viewers. >> it's a way to explain the russian federation, who wanted this entire investigation shut down, the intelligence community stymied in its efforts to uncover and reveal publicly the except to which russia had interfered in our election process and deemphasize the policy over russia. what did it do? got its agent, perhaps unwittingly, the president of the united states to try to end the investigation by firing jim comey. what that did, of course, was further heighten the suspicion of those duty-bound to investigate the counterintelligence threats to our country. >> mimi, some of the evidence for that is also now in the public record. we had donald trump in the oval
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office with two russian diplomats who had not been welcomed in the oval office i think for many years before the they show up there with donald trump and he puts his arm around lab rov and kislyak and said i got all of the pressure off me now that i let that nut job comey go. and we have lester holt on nbc news saying he let colty go becau comey go because of the russia thing, it's a hoax. so this isn't andy mccabe in a walled-off skiff poring over things he was analyzing, this is donald trump fully distancing himself from jim comey and american law enforcement agencies and embracing literally and figuratively vladimir putin. >> that's right, nicolle. it strikes me whatever people say about the steps that mccabe
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and others took at that time, they turned out to be right in their assessment that this president's loyalities seemed divided and still do. this is something we talk about on your show and other shows every day, not does putin have something over him but what does putin have on him? and why is trump so loyal to putin as opposed to seemingly his own people in his own country? now, you can label that whatever you want. there may be crimes that are chargeable, there may not. but there really can be no question from a rational observer that trump is very loyal to and beholden to putin. and mccabe and others saw that early on, before many of us really fully grasped what was going on. and the obstruction part, you know, again was happening in plain sight. but for a lot of people, it took a while for us to understand the
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magnitude of it and what it really could mean. it wasn't until recenty started talking about it in the terms you just talked about it with jeremy, in other words, that it was possibly part of a conspiracy or act on behalf of the russians and not some separate obstruction. and remember there had also been all of this activity during the campaign that they were taking into account. including trump himself calling out to the russians and the trump tower meeting. there was just so much on the plate already, and i think it's striking really how early on mccabe and others saw that there was a real issue here and this wasn't just about politics. >> and we're going to get into the politics in a minute because one of my favorite exercises is to imagine if this was a democratic president doing all of these things. republicans would be camped out sleeping in tents outside the white house holding impeachment hearings on their ipads. we will get there in a second.
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i want to stick with sort of the evidence mccabe had to support his move of opening a counterintelligence investigation. there was this anecdote about who donald trump trusted when it came to the nature of the north korean regime. watch this. >> essentially the president said he did not believe that the north koreans had the cape ability to hit us here with ballistic missiles in the united states, and he did not believe that because president putin had told him they did not. president putin told him the koreans don't actually have those missiles. >> and u.s. intelligence was telling the president what? >> intelligence officials in the briefing responded that that was not consistent with any of the intelligence our government possesses, to which the president replied, i don't care. i believe putin. >> so, paul, i will let jeremy jump on the substance of that in a minute. but as a prosecutor, when you have in your sights a subject
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who is fact resistant and, in fact, accepts the word african-american adversary, in your assessment, did andy mccabe do the right thing in opening the counterintelligence investigation? >> i don't think he had a choice. i think he had to. again, what he sees is a president who he has credible reasons to think might be a russian asset. the person who is sitting in the white house could be a double agent. and it's not, you know, you or me investigating this. because trump has attacked the fbi so much both director mccabe and director comey have been in the news. >> he didn't stop there. he's attacked lots of officials at the fbi. >> exactly. but these are the people who are leading the best law enforcement agency in the world. and so to the extent that they both have flaws at the end of the day, they are somber people. they're not given to rash judgments and they know how to evaluate evidence. and now we have both of these
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experienced law enforcement agents leading the best law enforcement agency in the world, comey and mccabe have the same concerns about trump obstructing justice. again, it's not just the garden variety case. this is an investigation about whether the president of the united states is a double agent and trump tries to shut down that investigation. >> jeremy bash, how does that, what he just described, that incident, that briefing where an american said no, no, no, i do not accept that because -- because vladimir putin told me something different, how is that not the scandal focused on night after night after night on fox news? >> it is the first time we heard this anecdote, nicolle, so it's really startling to hear from somebody who reports on it publicly for the first time. think about this, putin says to an american president, i don't want to you take seriously the threat of an icbm from north
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korea. the two reasons putin would have a motive to do that, number one, he obviously wants to undermine u.s. intelligence because it's u.s. intelligence that's calling out putin for his interference and his support of donald trump. second and more fundamentally, the russian federation had a longstanding agenda to stop the united states from building national missile defenses. those missile defenses could defend our territory from russian. so if you say to an american president, oh, the north koreans aren't a threat is essentially saying you don't have to build those defenses. and if trump believes him and trump accept that's conclusion, that is a very dangerous situation. number one, we won't do the defensive things we need to do. second of all, when trump goes into that summit with kim jong-un next month he basically will say i don't perceive you as a threat so we can give up more. it's an incredibly dangerous, naive, stupid, really fundamentally un-american, unpatriotic and shameful action. >> this seems to me to be the off-ramp for anybody in the
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right wing propaganda operation that says i've done enough. i've gone along with the lunacy around the wall. now he's doing something authoritarian in nature, usurping the power of congress. i've done enough for this guy. now he's taking a lifelong republican, who if he had done any of the things donald trump accused him of doing, he would have been treated differently, he's out of work because he's allegedly lied to the inspector general, not because of any of thinks conduct around the russia question or russia investigation. this seems to me if there's anybody left with a conscious in the right wing propaganda operation, this is your moment to get off the "titanic" folks. >> yet i predict we will see them double and triple down. >> on what? a guy who didn't believe america on north korea? >> they keep fall and digging. lindsey graham will try to make it into a show trial, as it worked so well for nunez in the house and lost 40 members largely because they played
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let's obstruct justice for the president. this is a great off-ramp. republicans and conservatives in good conscious need to say this guy says he believes vladimir putin over the entire american intelligence apparatus. this guy doesn't just behave like maybe he's compromised. right now in the eyes of mccabe and comey, who are serious people -- >> who are republicans! >> serious guys, you know, they're looking at all of trump's behavior that's public and the things they know in private that we don't even know about yet, intelligence intercepts, et cetera, and they're asking if vladimir putin isn't compromised by vladimir putin, how can you tell? at every turn takes russia's side, defends them constantly, engages in behavior and policy that help russia and putin over and over again. it's an off-ramp. i don't think they will take it however. >> if you care about the republican brand, is there a moment you say bob mueller, just comey, andy mccabe, republicans. i'll trade you one crazy now
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technically obese president on the omelet line for those three guys. do you not start to look at the evidence and say maybe those three men are on something? >> once again, in a normal world, that's an easy question. in the world of trumpism, these guys are not in a party anymore, they're in a political cult, and they will stick with donald trump until the last dog dies and they will go down in flames with him. they will athlete themselves up like the guys in the house did and end up getting tidal waves by the politics and reality of the fact donald trump has got something wrong with him with regards to russia and will burn anybody down, even the most loyal party member, the most loyal republican, it doesn't matter, he will defend putin until the very last breath. >> there is a political calculation to all of this. lindsey graham has a race in 2020. many are concerned about their own self-preservation. so what's happening here they're more scared of donald trump than anybody else.
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donald trump still has 80% to 90% republicans supporting him. they will go down in flames as rick says because it's not about the country, it's about eliminate themselves. it's not even about the party really. it's about their own self-preservation. when you watch the 60-minute interview and i only read the excerpts, i know you red the book of mccabe, it's absolutely breathtaking. >> it's an off-ramp for any right wing nut having remorse. >> you have the top doj people saying they're so concerned about donald trump, that they're talking about -- because of the illegal things he's doing, they're talking about the deputy attorney general wearing a wire. they're suggesting that. and he, like you guys were saying, is a republican. we're talking about rod rosenstein is a republican. >> they're all republicans. here's why i can only -- you're right, they're all republicans. and here's i think why many blood pressure is the highest at the table, maybes yours is
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second, they were all republicans and if this were a democratic president, they would all be in these jobs, most would be in these jobs, rosenstein is a political appointee but mccabe is not. i guess the aha for me is if they had done the things they had done and a democratic president was the subject or target of these questions, they would be long gone. >> all americans as well. so if democrats were doing this, they would be charged with putting party over country. and it sounds like that's what republicans are doing. >> it would be treason. it would be impeachment. >> there would be pitchforks and torches in front of the oval office right at this minute. >> no one's going anywhere. you can see how many i need them today. after the break, mccabe's recollections of his interactions with donald trump and rod rosenstein and others are as sharp as they are because like every good fbi agent, he took contemporaneous memos of those encounter. guess who has that memos? robert s. mueller. what else does mueller have?
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and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. you seem to have a very clear memory of your conversations with the president. why so? >> i made mem randoms to myself to make sure i preserve my contemporaneous recollections of interactions. >> that's what fbi agents are trained to do, right, write mem yes to the file after they speak to witnesses? >> that's what we're trained to do.
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>> where are those memos today? >> those memos are in the custody of the special counsel' team. >> robert mueller has your memos? >> he does. >> this is now clearer than ever, how key a witness andrew mccabe may be in robert mueller's russia investigation, which means the president's month-long twitter campaign against the acting fbi director and his wife my constitute obstruction of justice, a belief no doubt mccabe himself feels the act of firing by the president on the eve of his retirement by the president. >> were you expected to be fired 26 hours before you were to collect your pension? >> i guess i should have because the president spoke about it publicly. he made it quite clear that he wanted me gone before i could retire. i believe i was fired because i opened a case against the president of the united states. >> table is back. jeremy and mimi are here too.
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meme y mimi, let me start with you, just talk about this culture of memo taking and what is engrained in an fbi agent in terms of using that sort of written recollection to record things that may be lost over months or years. >> nicolle, i think it is literally the sort of old-fashioned equivalent of, you know, iphone picture taking for most of america. this is what fbi agents have always done, it's the lifeblood, bread and butter of their job. no matter how big or how small the case or investigation or whatever they're involved in, this is what they do. they record it in notes and the notes are usually turned into what's called an fbi 302, sort of an official document that goes into a system usually and is kept there. i don't know if mccabe ever did a formal report like that or it was just notes given sort of what was going on, but his
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instinct to record it -- and one of the things i was struck by in his interview is when he talked about the chaos of the time, i found that just bone-chilling to listen to in his interview and so credible. he had the peace of mind like comey to know, i need to write this stuff down, need to record it. and that will be invaluable to mueller in whatever, you know, decision and outcome he makes. to have something contemporaneously recorded. >> jeremy bash, this i have to write this down, that instinct in both comey and mccabe and others was triggered by the bizarre interaction, it was triggered by being in the physical presence of donald trump. comey writes about and talks about typing on his laptop in his car after pulling out from trump tower after that briefing from the intelligence community when it fell to comey to tell
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him about the tinkle tape and dossier. mg ca mccabe talks about typing a memo after being summoned to the white house by the president and told lies to his face, the president saying to mccabe, people really like this and mccabe describes in that "60 minutes" interview, you know, that's not the sense that we have at the bureau. mccabe also testifies before congress that morale was with not as donald trump described it under comey, it was actually very high. so just talk about the impact on sort of the credibility of a witness's contemporaneous notes and what it means that all of these men -- and i don't know if there are some women who are also witnesses in the mueller probe, but if their recollections were recorded right after these interactions, how does mueller wave that against other feeds of information? >> i think a prosecutor and investigator gives credit to somebody who writes down contemporaneously his or her recollections of a conversation. and this was really fundamentally, nicolle, a
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tremendous act of professional bravery by andy mccabe to open these investigations of the president of the united states, the most power. person in our government, and for him to do that, knowing full well it probably would cost him his job, it probably would lead to professional criticism and obviously the bullying that he experienced then from the president personally, and he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. he did it because he thought the facts warranted it. he did it because he thought there was predcation to take these unusual but important steps. i think we should be thanking andy mccabe for doing this because if he hadn't done it, we wouldn't have launched on the path of trying to really uncover the facts of what was motivating the president of the united states. >> can you also speak to the defamation of the senior leadership of the fbi? they weren't just -- the fbi isn't run by political appointees so i don't know that there's any parallel in history to the fbi director, the fbi
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deputy director, the fbi general counsel, and all of individuals and senior post at the fbi, and fbi investigating a sitting president for possibly being a russian agent, being decimated while that investigation is still open. >> it's what a guilty person does, nicolle. it's what someone does when they don't want the investigators to uncover facts. i could argue against things that the bureau have done, judgments they made from actions they've undertaken. in fact i think there are a lot of criminal defendants out there today who would really push back on tactics that have been used by fbi agents. i think that's all fair game. but for a president to say basically the fbi as an institution was corrupt, untrustworthy and we shouldn't listen to a director so we will fire him, deputy director, we will fire him. it shows the president had a lot to hide. >> we heard so many people in law enforcement compare the president and his family to a mob family.
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how does that parallel play out when you look at his conduct, the tweets from the weekend when andy mccabe speaks out, a witness? >> you want to talk about witness intimidation? >> please. a menu. a pu-pu platter? take your pick. >> we can talk about a presidential campaign and inauguration committee that looks like an ongoing criminal enterprise with literally the don at the top. so, you know, people think okay, mccabe has had idea about a counterintelligence investigation and the idea went away. no, that investigation is now called the mueller investigation. and to the point about 302s, those are what fbi agents do when they talk to the subject of a criminal investigation, so typically after an agent talks to the president of the united states, she's not in an investigative mode but there's something about conversations with trump that make both
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director comey and director mccabe think maybe i should start thinking about a national security investigation or a criminal investigation. and here's the thing, when they have that conversation with others in the administration, including the republican rosenstein, they don't say are you crazy? rod says, maybe i should wear a wire. >> yeah, wow. blowing my mind again. mimi rocah, thank you for being with us. we should mention andy mccabe will be our special guest live in the studio on wednesday. coming up next, when a trump emergency goes bad. gency goes bd
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answer my question, can you name one case where a president has asked congress for money, congress has refused, and the president has then invoked national powers to get the money anyway? >> well, this current situation -- >> yes or no, sir. >> the current situation pertains specifically to the
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military construction authority. >> i'm just asking -- >> the broader question -- >> when it comes to military construction, congress said no and then -- >> the meaning of the statute, chris, is clear on its own terms. if you don't like the statute or members of congress don't like the statute -- >> the answer is no. >> they would have changed it a long time ago. >> you know the white house is losing when they can't defend themselves on fox news. the appearance on chris wallace yesterday for the proof the trump's national declaration to build the border wall is a political ploy and loser at that and one he intends to keep up for his campaign. quoting trump and his allies are attempting to make 2020 a repeat of 2016, centered on a portrayal the nation is under siege from criminal forces and reliant on older whites in rural areas. jeremy and the table are back. the politics of this seem to me
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to be whatever you were going to get you got, you didn't think it was enough to win and you can lose at 10 of them, right? you can't lose many of them. some might think you're lame if after four years you can't get anything done. >> there's a repeated pattern where trump lost -- again and again, negotiates with his enemies and loses, negotiates with his friends and loses. this is a guy who's not delivered the big things he promised to deliver. the wall and immigration are a guard agency they can push off, one more threat, one more day, one more crazy incident. steven miller getting spanked by chris wallace, it's glorious television because he's terrible at it. and if i want to know his expertise, i'm going to ask about human taxidermy, not the wall or law. he's a weird dude to put on tv. even chris wallace is like i'm not playing the game. you can't defend this. this is wild executive overreach. and miller gamely slogs through it. but it's a symbol though of how close they have one issue they're going to cling to until
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the very, very end that will be immigration the wall. it's a big signifier for a lot of their base. its a big thing to keep going back to the scary caravans and dangerous brown people coming to get them. it will be a trope they repeat and repeat and repeat. >> i think there's a risk with the cross pressure of the trump base. i think in the trump base you have people who think trump does what's in the military's interest, and it's not. that trump made this case for security interests. this actually is not. a normal president would say my real success was lowering illegal crossing. there's too much cross-pressure. i think this issue will be something they ultimately either have to tell them or fantastical lie about or drop. >> i think you're right, nicolle. he's in such a boxed canyon on the thing. he can't talk himself back from the wall at this point. >> iterly. >> he could have said earlier on we're going to do things to make immigration legal or safe.
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flip the clinton script, safe, legal and air. but he hurt a lot of people who look an awful lot like trump voters. the government people shut out were rank-and-file tsa guys. he shut the government down. lost to nancy pelosi repeatedly. he's going to keep losing on had fight. he's going to lose a lot of these legal battles. it doesn't look to the base like the winningest winner of all winners. >> and to your point, nicolle, not only does it not support u.s. military strength it actually undermines it was the money has to come from somewhere and trump was to do this illegal and unconstitutional power grab even though it's congress that appropriated the money to the military, trump will steal that money from the military and use it to build the wall, which has nothing to do from the military. again, that's another very strong legal challenge to this power grab. >> jeremy bash. >> these are forward operating bases, hospitals for our troops, funds that will be used to fight
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and win wars and humpedy-trumpedy is going to take it for his wall and all of the king's horses and all of the king's men are going to be able to put it back together for him. i think what's so unbelievable, nicolle, he's so condescending to his base because he doesn't think they know the difference. >> i'm sorry, jeremy. go. >> finally, one final note which is tomorrow, you will see in the federal court litigation more than 40 national security professionals signing joint declarations explaining why in a national security paradigm this does not meet the test of a national security emergency, yn this action by the president actually undermines national security. >> jeremy bash, this seems like a big deal, big news bomb you just dropped on us. we're grateful, especially at 4:39, if anyone thinking of going to gym, you're neff safe when jeremy is here. tell me about the 40 people that
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signed on, democrats, republicans, appointees? >> former cabinet secretaries, former secretary of defense and state, former officials charged with defending our country, people who have been both republicans, democrats and also nonpartisan officials, and these are individuals who feel strongly, nicolle, so strongly that they want their voice heard in the national litigation as it wiep winds its way through our courts. >> that seems like a big bombshell in the push back, which should not be a partisan exercise, by the way. republicans should actually if they had any you know what's left leave the charge on the legal front of what donald trump just did. >> and you brought up a good point, if republicans go along with this national emergency, let's look a bit more forward, what happen when's the mueller report is ready? are we going to see it? i think that's another scary part too. if they're just going to sit back -- and many republicans said no, mitch mcconnell was on record saying, donald trump
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should not do this national emergency and the day that they passed the legislation, he says, oh, yeah, donald trump's going to sign it, he's going to call for a national emergency and i'm backing it. that's the concern, what happens when the mueller report? what's going to go down once that is ready? are republicans going to continue to do what they're doing and sit back and just let donald trump take the keys, take the keys to the congress? >> you want to make a prediction? >> we have a political crisis but we also may have a legal crisis, so people think from the wall that trump's not effective at accomplishing his agenda? make no mistake, he's transformed the federal courts. so people know about kavanaugh but when you look at the lower court judges who will be deciding this issue about the wall, he has packed the court with people who have the same extreme views about presidential power. when he did that riff trump did at the white house how we're going to lose in the he ninth circuit but we're going to win in the supreme court, he might
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actually win on the lower courts, again, based on his extremely effective transformation of the judiciary to a far right wing court. >> jeremy bash, quick last word. >> i don't necessity if it's extension of power but defending a republican appointing them. i bet you if it was a democratic president, they would be all about article one, the congress. >> jeremy, as always, thank you for the news you made here. when we come back, donald trump is making america the laughing stock on the world stage. we'll show you the cringeworthy evidence next. one-millionth order.
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>> joe biden there with a dose of chicken soup for the diplomatic's soul. a rare moment of unity and solidarity in the era of donald trump. a moment even more pronounced when you consider what happened to mike pence at the very same conference hours over. >> i bring greetings from the 45th president of the united states of america, president donald trump. [ feedback ] >> they should have written out pause for applause. the screaming silence, you can cut it with a knife, is when foreign policy gets you. according to "the new york times," it could have a reversible effect. beyond the trump administration an increasing number of europeans say they believe relations with the united states will never be the same again. carl kaiser, a longtime analyst of german-american relations said, quote, two years of mr. trump and a majority of french and germans now trust russia and
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chi china more than the u.s. now ann guerin is joining us from "the washington post," who just returned from traveling overseas with the vice president. take us inside the room, ann guerin. >> okay, friday night when pence had that moment you just played, his audience was clearly not the one in the room who were there to hear a tribute to the late senator john mccain, who was a longtime participant in the munich security conference. of course, given mccain's feud with the president, most of the people there who were obviously there to celebrate mccain were in no mood to hear greetings from the 45th president of the united states. that's a standard line that the vice president uses in nearly every speech. i don't know whether he just did it by habit or it was written into the script because it's always there or what, but it
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clearly went over like the proverbial lead balloon in the room. and you can see there what we couldn't see in the room, the close-up of his face as he sort of absorbs the fact there will be no applause so he just moves on with the rest of his address. but it was -- it really notable in the room. i will note the next day when he addressed the conference proper, there was a large contingent of members of congress there putting a lot of republicans who applauded as if to make up for the lack of applause the night before. >> do you think that this white house is operating under the belief -- because it would be wrong, and i know this from working in the bush white house during the very polarizing debates around the wars in iraq and afghanistan, do you think they think this is a good look for them to go to europe and be disrespected? the politics on that will surprise even a republican white house. the american people like to be liked. believe we are generous. we believe our military men and
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women save people in military zones and also humanitarian crises. and this will be another cross-pressure with that trump base, it sinks in that we've become a laughing stock, europeans now trust russians and chinese more than us. >> well, nicolle, i think that's a really important question to ask and i don't have a lot of precise information on it. i would say though that vice president pence was completely loyal and true to the trump message throughout, in poland and then in germany, and he is a traditional republican. he is somebody whose views of the world would have been quite at home in some parts of the bush administration. but he's part of the trump administration now, and speaks in many ways like trump. in munich, his message was really not well received on saturday either, when he addressed the conference and one of his main -- two main punches
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at europe there. one was please withdraw from the iran nuclear deal, which, of course, the signatories to that deal want to the nuclear deal, and two was the europeandownon, you're on the wrong side of history if you don't recognize them, so he was punching them in the nose twice. >> i can think of one republican who is adored in those settling. because of his strong interrogation against enhanced torture. because of his commitments to the allies and being on the ground, but on the idea that there is no political risk but disrespected and dismissed is totally false.
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americans do not like their leaders traveling aprod and beib -- abroad and being disrespected. >> the second part is economic, the third is a moral position, and we have to put a middle finger up and say we're with putin and you get a feeling that they have more power to influence their lives and they're no longer protected by the combination of power. >> roger stone takes a stab at an interesting new legal study. we'll bring that to you, next. y we'll bring that to you, next. [nondescript dialogue]
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roger stone astuting his legal mind tweeting a photo of the judge in his case and alleging "the fix is in." it was his second try and he saying it was misunderstood. >> yeah, he had a sweet deal, he is out on bond, but he needed to look at paul manafort.
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>> did he get a gag order? >> he did, but he threatened that jung. s judge. she will not take kindly to that. she locked him up for witness intimidation. paul manafort will probably will be in prison for the rest of his life because if he is convicted at trial and it will go from ba bail to serving a sentence. >> they're not just corruption, they're dumb. they all lied to the congress at the hearings and they lie to the doj. it is really bizarre. he calls himself a dirty trickster. yeah, and he is like -- he thinks he is the prince of darkness, it is really all bizarre with him. >> and minute changed his tune,
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paul butler, that does it for our hour, i'm nicolle wallace, "mtp daily" starts right now. >> if it is monday, the president believes putin. >> good evening, welcome to mtp dal daily, we start with the most shocking bomb shell. and it is not the ex-fbi's account of what happened in the


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