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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  February 19, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST

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race going to look like with him in now? >> it's jump ball right now. again, it is like picking a fantasy baseball team. they haven't taken the field yet. people are going to hit 300. some will be gone by may 1st. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks. a lot to cover this morning starting with breaking news. bernie sanders launching his second campaign for president this morning, joining an increasely crowded field of democratic contenders. >> we're going to win. we are going to also launch what i think is unprecedented. that is a grass roots movement, john, to lay the ground work for transforming the economic and political life of this country. >> and on the clock, deputy ag rod rosenstein is set to leave the justice department in weeks, leading to speculation that the mueller investigation might also wrap up within that time frame. in the meantime, andrew mccabe
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is out front explaining why he ordered a counter intelligence investigation into president trump. >> do you think the president is a threat? is that what that means? >> i think it's entirely possible. i think that's one of the reasons why we opened the case against him. >> law and border, 16 states taking the trump administration to court, challenging the president's national emergency for his wall funding, accusing him of, quote, flagrant disregard for the separation of powers and setting up for a legal showdown. >> hopefully congress acts and preempts the need for a lawsuit. but if it doesn't, we're ready to go. >> we begin this morning with that news from overnight. rod rosenstein likely just a few weeks away from stepping down from his post. could that mean robert mueller's report is on? the one that's on the president is just weeks away as well. a lot of people out there are saying please let that be the case. i have a great team here to
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break all of that do you know. first here's what we know. the word from the justice department officials is that rosenstein is expected to leave his post in the middle of march. that's about three weeks from now. it will officially end rosenstein's association with the mueller investigation and the special counsel which rosenstein appointed. remember, he's the one that did it nearly two years ago. and, please, stop me if you have heard this before, and i know you have, it could also be a sign that mueller is wrapping up his investigation. back in january, nbc news reported, quote, a source close to rosenstein said he intends to stay on until mueller's investigator and prosecutorial work is done. the source says once mueller's work is done, the special counsel's report to the justice department would follow two weeks later and rosenstein would likely be gone by then. despite new allegations from andrew mccaccabe that rosenstei offered to wear a wire into the oval office, that does not appear to be a factor as to why
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he was leaving. a spokesperson called thes a serations factually incorrect. second of all, his departure has been in the works for quite some time. he said a month ago he wanted to ensure a smooth transition to the new attorney general. now that barr has been officially confirmed, it paves the way for rosenstein to officially step down. i want to bring my panel in. keith williams, ken delaney, my friend shannon, and doug berns. it was your reporting in january that said rosenstein was going to stay until mueller's work was done. does that still stand, and does quasi announcing his departure mean the report is coming soon? >> i would put it this way. i would say this is just one of many signs that we believe the mueller report is about to be submitted to the justice
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department. i would say it's probably going to go up there possibly this week, maybe next week, that soon. so you're right, the only news here about rosenstein is precisely when does he did say in january he would leave shortly after william barr came in. now, remember, the timing here is not entirely up to rod rosenstein. it is a lot up to william barr. they have obviously had this conversation and actually rosenstein will stay a little longer than we initially thought he would. so i think it's quite likely that he'll be there when the report is turned over. he may have some voice in advising mr. barr, the new attorney general on how to handle it, what to turn over to congress, what to make public, how to do so. but it does now appear that, yes, you know, this is just, again, our speculation putting all the pieces together because the special counsel's office is
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singularly not communicative about these things. that's the way we have been all along. but the scenario you sketched out a accurate, that he will be there when this turns over. >> this happens when rosenstein has been caught up in these allegations from andrew mccabe about efforts to investigate president trump. earlier this morning he was on the today show talking a bit more about that. let's take a listen. >> did you order a counter intelligence investigation into the president? >> i did. it is saying that we had information that led us to believe that there might be a threat to national security. in this case that the president himself might, in fact, be a threat to the united states national security. >> when you're opening this particular kind of investigation, counter intelligence, did you suspect the president might actually be working for russia. >> we thought that might be possible, yes. >> all right. so that's mccabe's assertion. now president trump has been holding on to this idea that all of it was an illegal and
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treasonous attempt to overturn the 2016 election. shannon, what do people make of this? >> so the interesting thing about that is that we don't know what happened after mccabe opened this counter intelligence investigation. so did that carry on after mueller was appointed. shortly after mccabe opened this investigation, mueller came in and took over the whole show. did mueller continue that? because the impression of the white house and the president's lawyers all this time has been, yes, there was an obstruction of justice investigation, but that the other part of the investigation was into the campaign and the 2016 election and russian interference in the election. there has never been talk about the concern that the president was being investigated as to whether or not he was acting on behalf of a foreign power. the assumption this whole time has been that the president as they keep saying over and over again hasn't been a target or a subject of this investigation. i feel like they have gotten indications from mueller's team that that hasn't been the case. so the big question i have is what happened after mccabe
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opened that counter intelligence investigation? was it shut down right away? or has it quietly been going on behind the scenes all this time, which we don't know yet. >> i also want to share, mccabe talked about congress and what they knew. take a look at this. >> the purpose of the briefing was to let our congressional leadership know exactly what we have been doing, opening a case of this nature, not something that an fbi director, not something an acting fbi director knew by yourself. this came to me from my team. >> did you tell congress? >> and i told congress what we had done. >> did anyone object? >> that's the important part here, savannah. no one objected. not on legal grounds, not on constitutional grounds and not based on the facts. >> wow. he's talking about briefing the gang of eight. doug, if congress knew about this and did not push back, what does it tell you? >> it is interesting because it goes into the interplay between -- thank you. it goes between the interplay criminal investigation, counter
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intelligence investigation and congressional oversight. they are three different categories, okay? but to your question, and i agree with you, you can say they should have taken a more active role in congress in this. but again, the comeback will always be, wait a minute, there was an intelligence investigation and a criminal investigation underway. that's why we didn't would be the explanation. but i agree with you. >> do you agree all these allegations we have seen impact rosenstein's credibility and by extension the way people in general feel about the mueller investigation? >> i think it does to some extent. working back to what pete was laying out, when you have a new attorney general, they will bring in a new deputy attorney general. that's kind of interesting say, oh, he's leaving. but he'd be leaving anyway. it is only a question of timing. but i think there are questions, obviously, about what went on here. i'll jump to either side of the political conclusions, but the reality is the circumstances under which the mueller probe was started is something that's being discussed vigorously,
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intensely. people are angry back and forth. two different sides. yes, there were legitimate concerns about the president. i come right down the middle of those two honestly myself. >> well, we'll soon find out. you wrote a few days ago that people might be disappointed in the mueller report. does that exactly prove doug's point, that people are so divided and they are hanging on the extreme rafters that there is no home for an answer in the middle. >> actually, that headline referenced the fact that people may not see the mueller report. that's why they will be disappointed. there is a widespread misapprehension this will be like when ken starr released his opinion on bill clon tinton. that is not going to happen. the rules require he submit a confidential report to the attorney general. that will contain grand jury information, classified information. there is no way the attorney general could make the whole thing public.
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william barr was very cagey about exactly how he will proceed. there is a widespread demand, obviously. the public demands answers to these big questions we have been discussing. whatever happened to that counter intelligence investigation. what evidence did the fbi find, is donald trump compromised and is there a prosecutorial case for obstruction of justice, even though the president can be indicted. it remains to be seen, though, how the attorney general will transmit those answers and explain what robert mueller found. >> what happens to matt whitaker once barr takes over? >> that has already happen. he goes back into private life. i think he's going to stay at the justice department in some other role, so he'll remain for a time at the justice department. but of course he's no longer in the command structure there. and that stopped last thursday when william barr was sworn in. >> what are people in the white house saying about rosenstein leaving and barr taking over.
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does it change the level of concern they have about the mueller investigation? because i have to tell you when i speak to people inside the white house they honestly act like they don't have a care in the world, and it blows my mind. >> well, there is a lot of people in the white house who are just battle tested at this point and nothing shakes them. they have been under this pressure of this investigation and every sort of drama of the day for two years now. so, yeah, you get a lot of shrugs at this point. but as far as barr coming in, there are a lot of people happy the president will have an attorney general at least for a period that he is comfortable with, that he likes until there will be some sort of falling out at some point. but initially they will have an attorney general who the president has a good rapport with. and then it is just bracing for, you know, what comes next. they have designated someone within the white house counsel's office to handle the communication, the president's legal team has been working on a counter report. i have also been told that the white house definitely plans to
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try to review whatever is going to be made public to scrub out anything they say falls under executive privilege. that will be any conversations that happen when the president was in the white house between the white house counsel or between his aids. another, to ken's point, way people could be disappointed where the white house could push back and say they want information kept from the public because it falls under executive privilege. >> people should be excited, if we just get to the truth of whatever it is. thank you all. really good conversation. we will leave it there. coming up, president trump facing a wall, get that, wall of opposition to his national emergency. i've got some corny writers on this team. 16 states suing to stop the executive action, setting up a major legal showdown. what now? you knew the late night hosts could come out swinging against his rose garden remarks, including the one and only steven kol ber. >> you are talking about so many
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welcome back. the president's national emergency declaration, well, it is now facing its biggest challenge yet. last night 16 states, including california, new york, maryland and new mexico filed a suit arguing that the president's plan to redirect federal funds in order to build his border wall is unconstitutional. it is worth noting all but one of these states had democratic governors and most have democratic controlled legislatures. in that suit, the states argue, quote, contrary to the will of congress, the president has used the pretext of a manufactured crisis of unlawful immigration to declare a national emergency and redirect federal dollars appropriated for drug intervention, military construction and law enforcement initiatives toward building a wall on the united states/mexico border. california attorney general will
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file the suit on behalf of the other states, echoed that statement last night. >> if congress can't get a measure passed that could halt what he's trying to do, then that's why we're in court and we'll, i hope, go to an institution that will stand up for what 240 years of democracy has made very clear. there is a separation of powers in this country. >> in the suit, the attorneys general cite the answer to this question asked by my colleague peter alexander. >> will you concede that you were unable to make the deal that you had promised in the past and that the deal you are ending up with now from congress is less than what you could have had before a 35 day shoutdown. >> i went to congress. i made a deal. i wasn't supposed to get one dollar. but on the wall they skimped. so i was success informal that sense. but i want to do it faster.
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i could do the wall over a longer period of time. i didn't need to do this, but i'd rather do it much faster. and i don't have to do it for the election. i've already done a lot of wall for the election. 2020. >> nbc's peter alexander joins me right now from the white house. it is an overstatement, peter, to ask is the question regretting his answer. he regrets nothing. but how is the white house handling it? >> well, we should note that it is that very quote in this filing where they argue it was the president's personal preference, that he conceded it was his personal preference to have this wall built quicker, rather than an actual need here. the emergency's act of 1976 doesn't talk about authorities here. it doesn't say whether it has to be an emergency or it doesn't define that and say it has to be an unforeseen circumstance.
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it may come down to how the president is trying to spend these monies. in particular he's asking for wants to spend $3.6 billion from military construction projects. but to do that, according to stat statutes, he would have to demonstrate that the military is needed. so it remains to be seen. some of these suits could be thrown out. they will need to demonstrate that there is harm done to them, including to those states. they argue, among others, the environmental damage here. but the bottom line is the white house is putting out a series of tweets this morning. the first one said, as i predicted, 16 cities filed a lawsuit in the ninth circuit. you will recognize those cities include california, new mexico. he corrected his tweet to say 16 states, right, led mostly by open border democrats and the radical left have filed a lawsuit in of course the ninth
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circuit. the president if you remember in this news conference he said this is exactly what's going to happen. we'll probably lose. it will go to the supreme court. hopefully we'll get a fair shake. as he quoted what took place with the travel ban, we will win. it wasn't until the third travel ban before the president got what he was looking for. >> all right. just for clarification, the president said he got $1.4 billion for his wall. that's not the case. it was actually a lot more money than that in border security. $1.4 billion was towards the border fencing. nancy pelosi said she wasn't going to give any money for president trump's border wall, and there was no border wall funding in the deal that was signed. up next, the ever growing field of democratic candidates is now widening. just this morning senator bernie sanders throwing his hat in the rink. how does that affect the race? we will talk to to next. you have got to see this close call at monday night's nhl
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game. nbc hockey analyst is always close to the action. but this time it looks like he was a little bit too close. a puck went flying towards his face, just barely missing him before the camera lens look a hit. fortunately, nobody was hurt. wat audible members know listening has the power to change us, make us better people. with audible, you get more. two audible originals- exclusive titles you can't find anywhere else. plus a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. all with our commitment free guarantee and always ad free. the most inspiring minds. the most compelling stories. the best place to listen. download audible and start your free trial today.
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there is a new contender in the democratic primary. vermont senator bernie sanders formally announced his candidacy this morning, but this time he enters a different and far more crowded primary contest than when he faced hillary clinton back in 2016. >> it is not only about winning the democratic nomination and the general election. our campaign is about transforming our country and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice. >> joining me now, nbc senior political editor mark murray, my friend tim o'brian and capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt. all right, mark, did we see this
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coming, and do you think it will be different this time? it is a far different playing field. you can thank bernie sanders for that. >> yes. there were a lot of people within bernie sanders world who were gearing up for this kind of launch. there were some divisions on some people that believe this is going to be a much harder fight in 2020 than in 2016 where he had got to be the anti-hillary alternative. as you mentioned this time around, it is so much more crowded. not only do you have someone like elizabeth warren in this race, you also have tulsi gabbert and jeff merkley. so that world where you got to stand alone is being progressive in 2016 and the critic to hillary clinton, well this time around you are competing the elizabeth warrens, kamala harris. all of a sudden now, it seems to be a little bit more open than
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that liberal progressive one. >> following -- you were following sanders back in 2016. i know you are in new hampshire now for kamala harris. talk about where bernie sanders fits into the field. it was just yesterday kamala harris was creating distance between the two saying she is not a democratic socialist. >> that's right. and, quite frankly, that message is designed to speak to what they expect to be her core constituency, where the democratic party has, for them, been a very important part of fighting for equality for social justice for all of the issues they care about. a couple of things. first, to mark's point, bernie sanders isn't all by himself. but he deserves credit for starting this conversation in the democratic party. we are having a conversation now in this primary about the things bernie sanders was talking about back in 2016. and that's a pretty remarkable
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thing. now, i will say that some of the other competing campaigns, they look at bernie sanders and they see him squarely in elizabeth warr warren's way, and they see the two of them competing over the same group of voters. and in a crowded field, that's potentially a real problem because, you know what you really need to do especially in some of these early states is not necessarily win 50% of the vote, but win a large enough slice of the electorate that you can continue on, continue raising money and have a rational to keep your campaign going. if bernie sanders and elizabeth warren in that same space, it is very difficult for both of them. bernie sanders, my big question is what have you learned from 2016 that he's going to apply to a campaign this time around? i mean, bernie sanders is an extraordinarily stubborn senator, person, presidential candidate. he has done things his own way all the way along.
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he has had advisers that have tried to tell him you have to do x and y and z. sometimes ignoring that advice can be a good thing. however, there are some issues with women and particularly with race where bernie sanders, he has a personal story that has a will the of credibility on state issues. he has been resistant to talking about his personal biography in that context and he has occasionally said things that have angered the african-american community, for example, equating their struggles to anybody that struggles with not having enough money hechlt says class is the most important distinction. that doesn't always sit well for african-american voters who see things differently. he has a lot more challenges this time around. but at the same time, he really made an incredible mark in 2016. and i think, you know, we're about to find out whether those people that came and cheered him in and, man, there were
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thousands of people. it was like going to a rock concert every time, whether those people are more excited about him than they are about any one of those other candidates in the field. >> tim, let's talk about who he's up against because he's got some democratic powerhouses. is this good for the democratic party, or is it bad to be dividing, dividing, dividing. >> i don't know if they're democratic powerhouses yet. there is a lot of new faces. you can say that biden is a powerhouse. but harris and cloeber shar are new faces. i think there is a lot of room for that to get shaken out. they are setting flags around taxes and health care and i think that's going to get sorted out in part by the candidates but also by the elector rate. there is a lot of pressure to say choose your field and get in the swim lane and go there. but there is a lot of time between now and the fall of
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2020. and some of this should be part of the public dialogue. that's a healthy part of an electoral process. the things that will come out of this is who is the candidate that can beat donald trump and how do you beat donald trump. the things that he's vulnerable around, which we have already learned through the midterms, clearly health care is an issue. also jobs and the economy. there is a lot that could happen between the economy between now and then. democrats need a strong job solution message and a strong message about economic growth. >> what's your take, suzanne? >> there is a few things in play here because as tim just mentioned, there is not necessarily one powerhouse in the race yet. biden can be one. certainly bernie sanders offering something. but bernie sanders was part of a movement. the movement has now aarrived. now you see eight candidates part of that in some way.
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some are more moderate. some are more left. but it is an interesting time for the democratic party. the other thing i wonder, another lesson we learned from 2018 is that women really came out to vote against donald trump but also for other women. and i wonder if that gives an advantage. i think it probably does to the top three or four women right now who are probably running. i wonder if bernie sanders may have kind of missed his opening by not getting in a little earlier as these women have set up some strong openings. >> mark, let's talk about amy cloeb char. she called progressive policy platforms like medicare for all aspirational. how do you think she will match up against sanders because when she says very realistic things like paying for college for everybody is great. i just don't know how we could do it. it doesn't get a lot of applause, but that's a real answer, and it is a realistic
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one. >> yeah. stephanie, when i end up looking at that sen tryst or pragmatic democratic lane, right now it is actually not as full as the liberal progressive one and it allows someone like her or beto o'rourke, if he decides to get in, to be able to almost hug that lane. then it becomes a math game when you look at the iowa caucuses where 25%, 28% ends up maybe getting you a win. that means you could end up having the liberal progressive vote being divided by, you know, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and kamala harris and all others. and you could end up being having a message like amy cloeb char's and being able to win iowa. >> but there is a different math game. there is a math game around getting the votes because an aspirational sound board is exciting. but how do we pay for all these things that inspire and excite people that feel like they're getting screwed by the man?
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because those are two different sets of math matt tiematicsmath >> amy talked about that yesterday. she stepped back from that. he said in an ideal world she's like to do that but we have to think practically about what we can afford. i think that will be one of the interesting things about the biden candidacy. i imagine he will make an announcement sooner rather than later. it would be interesting if he came out of the gates pairing himself with either kamala harris or amy cloeb shar and perhaps he will be a one term president. that could be a powerful formula for the democrats, if you have a veteran in there with a female candidate when there is hunger against women voters to have strong female personalities on stage with a guy who probably, if he had run in 2016 might have beaten donald trump. >> you do, but every night if you turn on fox news, i don't
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know, around 9:00, you will hear there is a war on men in this country. and it's not just in the far right. in suburban america, this narrative is working. and so if we -- if you push this, women went out to vote and they went out to vote for women. does that help this far right narrative that they're saying, they're taking us down. they're taking over where, by the way, there is no data to support that. >> i should have clarified what i said earlier. there were a lot more women candidates running, and that's who people came out to support. and a lot of them were moderate. a lot of veterans. and what women went out and especially suburban women, which tend to vote republican in a lot of those swing districts said, no, i am done with donald trump's policies. it wasn't a referendum on men as much as it was a referendum on the president. that's really what it came down
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to. there is a lot of angry women at donald trump. >> a lot of angry humans. >> a t lothank you so much. good conversation. all right. we are headed to north carolina next. i must cover this story. do you remember it? a mysterious case could prove to actually be election proud. paging, oh, my god, do you remember the voter fraud commission? the republican is still holding the lead. but a key witness just admitted to tampering with absentee ballots. we will lay out what all this could mean next. next, teachers in west virginia are going on strike again today, almost one year after their strike launched that red for ed movement. today's walk-outs are in response to a teacher's union called complicated election laws that they are -- excuse me, education laws that they say are
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where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. woman 6: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 7: go to to see proof in action. welcome back. this morning the second day of testimony is underway in the election tampering case involving north carolina's ninth congressional district. i want to take you back to what all of this is about. it is really important. the results of that congressional race in november of 2018 between republican mark harris and democrat dan have
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remained uncertified as investigators try to uncover whether fraudulent activity took place. harris has an unofficial lead. but mccready is calling for a new election saying there was illegal activity regarding a number of absentee ballots. the case focussed on two rural counties. 61% of the absentee ballots in the district were cast for harris, even though only 19% of votes were cast by registered republicans. multiple north carolina voters allege their absentee ballots were illegally collected and in some cases tampered with or discarded. nbc news found that statewide more than 3,500 absentee ballots requested were not turned in. 472 of those were in bladen
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county alone. who tampered with these ballots? that is what the state board of elections is trying to figure out. witnesses allege the illegal activity was part of a get out the vote campaign run by a political operative named leslie mccray who was hired by an independent contractor to help the harris campaign. nbc has been following this very important story from the beginning. i'm so grateful she had, and she joins us with the latest. walk us through this because his stepdaughter testified on monday that she was paid to collect ballots. what exactly did we learn what she did once she collected them? >> yeah, stef. so it's been an explosive first day of the hearing. we're just starting the second day. state investigators opened this hearing with this explosive comment. they said they found in their
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investigation that there is a coordinated unlawful and substantially resourced scheme regarding these absentee ballots. that was the beginning. and then we heard from lisa brit, dallas's stepdaughter who really turned on her stepfather and implicated him. here's what she had to say. >> so it was unsealed and the ballot was not completely voted, you could fill in the other offices. >> and who would have directed you to do that? >> mr. dallas. what i would do would be vote whoever was a republican. >> so she testified that she was paid to collect absentee ballots, turn them into her stepfather, dallas, and then sometimes they tampered with these ballots before they turned
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them in to the election board. it is part soap opera, but it is also a big story with national implications. we're just starting the second day of this hearing. if today is anything like yesterday, we could find out a lot more what happened here. >> my goodness. all right. i got to ask you guys, what's your take on this. >> i think mark twain would recognize dallas from a million miles away. this is vote rigging. >> in the united states of america. >> in the united states of america. but we've gotten used to this in politics because we're in the trump era where things that would be comic if they weren't dangerous or had such an impact on people's lives would only be comic. but it is tragic this is happening. the other thing that keeps coming up in the story was that dallas was hired by an outside committee and he entered into the harris campaign. mark harris testified in december that he helped supervise the hiring of dallas. so harris is not that far removed from any of this.
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although, dallas's stepdaughter, who is also a felofelon, has sa that harris -- >> by the way. >> exactly. was removed from all this. that the facts don't appear that that's the case. i think it's another reminder that u.s. politics right now in this era is degraded. >> all right. suzanne, put on your republican strategist hat. what do republicans do in this situation? >> what they should do is say, you know what, we should have another election and we're not putting up harris because we don't tolerate election fraud under any circumstances. stand up for what the right thing is. it's not that hard, stephanie. and to see that all of this -- and on top of it, it is not like the balance of the houses is at stake here. i would still say the same thing even if it was. if we want to put faith back into the system, let's do the right thing. and it is really that simple. charges should be filed against the people that committed fraud and committed crimes, and there should be a new election and harris shouldn't run.
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>> clean it up. all right, thanks. we're going to leave it there. coming up, we have got to talk about this. you know it is a favorite topic of mine. women in the workplace. while countries around the world are seeing positive growth, the u.s. seems to be at a standstill. you know what i'd like to talk about, affordable child care, something we don't have in the united states of america. money, power, politics next. but when it comes to colon cancer screening... i'm not doin' that. i eat plenty of kale. ahem, as i was saying... ...with cologuard, you don't need an excuse... all that prep? no thanks. that drink tastes horrible! but...there's no prep with cologuard... i can't take the time off work. who has two days? and i feel fine - no symptoms! everybody, listen! all you need is a trip to the bathroom. if you're 50 or older and at average risk, cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers.
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it's my favorite part of the show. money, power politics. women have made major progress in the labor market since the 1960s, but that progress has somewhat plateaued in recent years. and that slowdown could be a major hit to the economy. this is not a global event. the united states remains an outlayer with countries like sweden, germany, canada and the united kingdom continuing to see positive growth in the last 20 years. this is a really important subject. joining me now, dear friend of mine and u.s. editor for the financial times, brendan greely. let's walk through the u.s. problem and what we're doing differently. my gripe when i hear the great strides we're making, and i'm glad about it, maternity and paternity leave. those are 12 and 14 weeks at
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most. in the united states we do not have affordable child care. we don't have jobs, especially for those at the middle income level that coincide with being a parent. >> right. so there are two policy interventions we could talk about that would make a difference. one is parental leave. we've been talking about it most. i suspect because we can make employers pay for it. but there's also child care. everything we know about evidence from other countries is that affordable child care makes a much bigger difference in terms of work force participation for women than parental leave. we've argued about the wrong thing because it's difficult in this country to say okay, this is something the state is going to pay for. we pay about half of what other developed economies pay in child care subsidies? >> so child care is one of my personal biggest expenses. but i'm in a unique situation. i can afford that child care. there are loads of families, mostly women, who are knocked out of the work force because they cannot get a job that will
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pay them enough to then afford child care, and i want to share this is now becoming already part of the 2020 dialogue. elizabeth warren introduced universal child care plan. she's saying no family would spend more than 7% of their household income on child care. families with income below twice the poverty line would pay nothing. that's 50 grand a year for a family of four, and this program, it would cost about $7 billion over ten years. >> that's interesting. they say it's net. that means they've done economic modelling to figure it out. it's important to point out, this is not a women's issue. this is a growth issue. it's also a men's issue. >> it's a family issue. >> it's a family issue because of something we've talked about a lot. i spent a lot of time figuring out to child care issues in our family. if you can bring more people in the labor force, then you can grow faster. and so it's important to make it possible to work as a parent. we don't make that easy in
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america. it's different from other industrialized countries. it's also important to have a culture in workplaces that offer flexible arrangements? >> but if you run a small company. if i ran a small business with four employees, i'd love to offer my employees flexible this and flexible that, but i can't afford to. it's one of the reasons you saw a small business sentiment go up when trump was elected. small business owners said i am getting so much pressure from the regulatory standpoint, i can't afford to stay in business. >> one of the things we do in america is take all the social benefits we want for ourselves and make countries pay for it. other countries tax you and give you the benefit and let the company operate without having to be a mini state. >> americans say they don't want to pay more in taxes. >> many america there are two things that drive labor force participation. one is policy. the other is culture. we're better off than the united kingdom and other developed economies.
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italy, it is more acceptable for women to work here. the workload between men and women at work and home, we're closer to countries like sweden and denmark than countries like the uk. the real difference in terms of the child penalty, the way women's incomes drops after having a child comes back to policy. it comes back to what we've been talking about for years. why is child care so expense snif. >> we have to point out countries like sweden and norway might make it happen. they are tiny compared to the united states of america. it's really hard to compare the two. brendan, thank you so much. child care, it's a major issue. we're going to always cover it here. i care a lot about it. coming up, more on the lawsuit to block the president from using executive action to get his border wall. we're going to speak to one of the attorneys general from the 16-state coalition suing trump over the emergency declaration. n $4.95. delivery drones
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admitted to the florida bar. she was sworn in last month and currently practices at a law firm in miami. i love that. you go, miss hallie. that wraps us up this hour. coming up right now, more news with hallie jackson. >> thank you. i'm hallie jackson in washington. breaking this morning, bernie is back. taking a second shot at the white house. but 2020 is not 2016. our team breaks down the top two challenges he faces in the second presidential run with a bigger field but for sanders, same swagger. >> i am going to run for president. that's correct. >> what's going to be different this time? >> i'm going to win. >> also happening this morning, andrew mccabe tells all. why he ordered a counterintelligence investigation into president trump. what he told congress about it and his response to being labeled a liar and a traitor. >> did you suspect the president might be working for russia? what were the facts that


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