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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 21, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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we have a very special fallback friday tomorrow. all three hosts of the breakfast club are here. they're going to do a take over. they're the great hosts from power 105 in new york. the breakfast club on "the beat" tomorrow. that does it for us. "hardball" is up next. >> stone cold warning. let's play "hardball." good evening. in for criss rr matthews. we are following a wild day of news. in washington a judge has banned roger stone from making public comments about his case. a gag order all but silences the
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political operative. in a state board unanimously voted for a new election for a seat in congress. that original election tainted by ballot fraud. and in chicago epolice arrested actor, jussie smollett and charged him with staging an attack on himself. the superintendent saying quote he took advantage of anger and racism. we begin with a riveting court room drama that played out in washington d.c. today. roger stone, who is today gagged by a federal judge after his public attack on that judge almost landed him in jail. he took the stand to decide why he decided to post the image of judge amy jackson with a cross hair next to her head.
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saying his decision was a momentary lapse of judgment. saying quote i am heartfully sorry for my own stupidity. stone tried to explain that quote it's been a stressful sit ways. among other things he says he is being treated for emotional distress and that he's having a hard time putting food on the table. he went on to say the image he posted was by someone who works for him. the judge appeared unmoved saying i don't find any explanations credible. rather than revoke stone's bail, she modified the original gag order, prohibiting him making any further comments about the investigation. he attacked the judge on instagram, he quickly removed the post and asked for a formal apology by the court.
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and again calling it an epic fight against the anti-donald trump deep state. as the judge said at the conclusion of today's hearings, stone's apology rings quite hollow. she added i have serious doubts on whether you learned any lesson at all. and joining me now, nbc investigative reporter and senior fbi oofficial. peter baker, chief white house correspondent and former assistant watergate special prosecutor. and let me just start with you because you're on the scene there. i think those of us that watch roger stone through the media used to him striking a very defiant, very aggressive posture. you remember after he was taken into custody last month, he came out. that nixon salute. seemed to be enjoying the moment. in that court room though a very different roger stone on display. >> a very different stone.
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a stone i haven't seen before. i haven't seen that kind of contrition with roger stone where he was begging for forgiveness. i think he was really afraid he might not walk out of there today, that he might be going to jail. so on some level he really understood that. but the judge would have liked to see him more contrite. there was one moment where she asked about the apology he filed and he said my lawyers just wrote that and i signed it. i don't think that sat very well with her. she says well, the lawyers were appalled by his actions. he didn't really show me he was appalled by his own actions. so i don't think that went so well for him. however, he is walking out of here a free man. i've heard from an associate he's on a fwlilight down to florida.
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everyone in his inner circle was afraid of that and all of our experts were saying that's a very real pausesbability. >> absolutely. point and sorry to interrupt you. i'm curious too. there was an expectation that this judge was going to say this is nonsense. were you surprised? >> a little bit. i practiced in front of a lot of federal judges that would not have shown the forbearance that judge jackson showed today. he did enough to earn himself a revication of his bond. she was kind and considerate, although it sounds like she was really close to putting him in prison. one day he will go there because he will be a convicted felon. it just isn't today. >> he can't talk about the mueller cacase.
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what exactly are the terms? no jail, can't talk about his investigation, the mueller case. what are the other terms? >> he cannot speak on television, radio, do any print media, any online becaused media and most importantly that we should be paying attention to, he cannot use twitter, facebook, instagram or any other forms of social media. so that is a big blow for stone. it remains to be seen if he ecan control himself and not use these platforms. because i have to say even after the judge ordered this hearing, she ordered it on tuesday for thursday and in the interim period, he has continued to post on instagram. this morning invoking the quote on quote deep state and i think this changes things for roger stone if he can't talk about it at all. part of his motivation for posting these kinds of things is to raise money to pay for his lawyers.
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and his judge argued strongly today that he should not be gagged in that way but it didn't fly with the judge. so it remains to be seen if he can control himself and maybe we will be a quistone. look at flynn. after he got in trouble, we didn't hear a peep from him for a year and stone is a very different character. but let's see if that's what we can see in the coming months. the next scheduled hearing is march 14th. so we'll see what happens until then. >> thank you for keeping us posted throughout. and on that point about roger stone and how he uses the media, social media, has now spoken attack dog for the president. he's long used questionable rhetoric to go after trump's adversaries, often describing the special counsel as quote a deep state conspiracy. he was just as vocal about the
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charges he now faces. let's watch. >> this is a lynching. this is a legal lynching of me. >> i intend to fight because this indictment is fabricated. an expensive show of force to try depict me as public enemy number one, the og, an attempt to poiseen the jury pool. >> after that arrest last month was bh was met with a partial gag order. he still appeared on "info wars" the same day. >> let me be very clear that it any inference i did to disrespect the court or the judge is false. the fake news continues to make me a favorite target. this latest tempest is a perfect example of it.
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but hopefully here at the war room i've had the opportunity to lay out the facts. >> and to that point the judge asked why did you continue to talk about how you're being treated unfairly? how is that consistent with what you're telling me now? stone replied. i did not have a malicious intent. as judge jackson pointed out publicity cannot subside if it's the defendant that's fanning the flames. that idea of roger stone fanning the flames. his stock and trade is making waves in the media. this is somebody who believes you don't exist if your are arnot ebeing talked about, not talking about yourself in the media. in terms of his strategy for dealing what he's facing right now, what kind of effect is this gag order going to have on him? >> we can only hope that he has learned an important less on sqand that he realizes how close he came to being put in jail.
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the judge is extremely lenient by just expanding the gag order. he is poising the jury pool. when he talked about the fbi conducted itself ape way to poiseen the jury pool, they did not. they handled the arrest in an ordinary way to handle the arrest. his words are intended to poison the jury pool. when they can speak to the public and claim that the prosecution is evil, it's the deep state. he's taking up the donald trump mantra of how the evil state is after him. which is absolute lee not true. the facts have spoken and it led to an indictment. and he went about his normal pattern of behavior. he's been doing this since the nixon era. he's known as a dirty trickster. he speaks very casually in ways that are really harm fool him now.
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they used to be harm fool the opponents of any candidate he was supporting. and hopefully he has learned and won't end up in jail for this. >> meanwhile as that drama with roger stone plays out, multiple outlets are reporting that special counsel, rob rbt mueller, will submit his final report soon. there's no guarantee that its conclusions will be made public, it's still an open questions to whether any new indictments will conduct that report. according to giuliani the president's legal team has not spoken on the counsel in sweeks. he would walk away and say thank you. if it's damaging, we will respond. there's two questions. number one is that we've had a lot of reports that this is almost done, that something is going to be revealed shortly. we now have a flurry of them plp
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are they more serious? and if there is, how much is the public going to get to see? >> we feel like we're on the edge of something but we don't know for sure. one reason is because robert mueller, unlike any government operation has been pretty darn leak proof. he hasn't done much to tell us anything about the legal documents through indictments and other things he filed in court. so his actual intent he's measuring because other people have told us that. what is the justice department expecting? and we don't even know the form it might take. it could be days, weeks. we have no idea, how the attorney general decides to review this. he did tell the senate when he was being confirmed that he wants to air on the side of transparency. but he reserves the right to
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with hold things for public release. you can madge classified information regarding surveillancef russians that might be too sensitive to release. and whether it qualifies as privileged. and unlike ken starr who was an independent counsel, robert mueller is in effect an employee of the justice department. so bill barr decides whether the conclusions are valid or not. we don't know what's going to happen. lots of time to chew it over. >> how barr would handle the report handed to him. if there is a report, that was in his conformation hearings. we're talking about roger stone. the case was brought by mueller. clearly this roger stone case is not going to be wrapped up by next week. can we read anything into that?
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is stone lukely to be the last indictment we see from mueller? >> it might be the last indictment you technically see from the mueller team. i think about this in two buckets. there's the mueller bucket and cases that he brought. remember his remit was rather narrow. it was to probe russian election interference and coordination with the trump campaign. but there's this whole other big bucket you have to talk about. the investigations and the cases of the southern district of new york, federal prosecutors of manhattan. the trump inaugural committee, investigations of the trump organization. and the hush money payments that cohen made. and there's whole utter thing we ought to keep our eyes on. primarily in manhattan and other
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u.s. attorneys offices round the country. >> thank you all for being with us. and coming up over shadowing trump. co remember him? set to deliver testimony hours before trump tries to make histor history with kim jong-un. and a dramatic turn of events. >> i believe the new election should be called. >> it was like one of these scenes from perry mason or mat lock where everything suddenly changes in the courtroom. the republican congressional candidate who once demanded to be seated. now he concedes the election is tainted. and waiting for joe after bernie sanders entry, what is. s entry,s hey, who are you?
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." michael cohen, president's self-described fixer and former personal lawyer is finally going to face congress. cohen is scheduled to appear in public before the house oversight committee next wednesday. that will create a striking split screen on his former boss will be in vietnam getting ready for his summit with it north korean president, kim jong-un. cohen has been cleared to discuss debts and payments related to any efforts to influence the 2016 election. compliance with campaign finance law, conflicts of interest, the trump foundation and president trump's truthfulness. it will not include questions related to ongoing investigations into russia's
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effort to influences the political process. and cohen is set to appear before the intell jjs committees next week. he pled guilty to two campaign finance violations to a former play boy model on behalf of donald trump. joined by politics editor at "the root.com." and a former speech writer for george w. bush. they're always over used. i can just remember -- well, i don't remember. but i'm reading about nixon in the final days of watergate. he looked to score big points over seas to sort of distract and the reports of the mueller thing comes to a head. >> but president nixon had real successes. the break through with china, that was real.
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the arms with soviet union really was successful. what is he doing in vietnam is another long line of retreats, retreats that would have shocked the republican party as it existed until two years ago. >> is this a president who's trying to find some way to put a win on the board no matter what? >> this is a total branding exercise. in the same way he tried to persuade people that trump university is better than princeton, he's trying to convince in return for nothing. the north koreans have suspended some tests. that's true. but nothing has changed. but the american position has changed forever. but of course we have a much worse relationship. and small sums of money south korea and frighting after that.
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>> we talked about that as a split screen but that will be one of the stories next week. you're going to have the president try to make a play on the international stage. you're going to have michael cohen giving this open public testimony. what are you substantively listening for next week? >> it's not so much what i hear from cohen. it's going to be the questions from the democrats. you have that new group of freshman congressman who were really trying to make a name for themselves. are they just going to ask about 2015? or are they going to expose people doing investigation based on things that cohen is saying. let's not forget that cohen's real importance is not just that he was trump's fixer but he knows where all the bodies are buried and other crimes this president is engaged in. and engaged in by trump's associates and his family.
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my question is howmany of these congressman are going to dig into the answers? i don't think it's going to distract anybody. most americans care about what's going to come out of his mouth. >> famously telling a reporter he would take a bullet for his boss. the day they raided office, hotel room last year. lanny davis told john dean, richard nixon's lawyer, that ecohen will quote pull a curtain back and we will hear true stories of trump's crimes and morally vacant character in specific detailed, personal anecdotes. and president trump tweeted out this remember michael cohen only became a rat after the fbi did something which was absolutely unthinkable and unheard of until the witch hunt was illegally started.
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they broke into an attorney's office. lanny davis doing a good job of raising the bar of expectations of what's going to come out of this. cohen pf cohen's been through the legal process here. if there was anything explosive that he could prove there, wouldn't that have been the forum? >> one of the things we can learn from cohen is how small all of these trump scandals are and how comparatively petty. hundreds of thousands of dollars is a lot for people. but if you're a billionaire, they're like dimes. would you steal a dime? most people would rnt. if he is who he says he is, then the doesn't make sense. it will show that it's an operation where people were skrouchging for what would be efor a billionaire puny sums of
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money and taking risks that don't make sense if the story donald trump tells about himself is a true story. >> and we have been talking this week about that new reporting in the "new york times" that president trump a couple months ago went to his acting attorney general, matthew whitaker and suggested a different prosecutor for the cohen case. might be an ally, might be favorable to him. he's already recused himself. you can't do that. but that was the president perhaps booing mindful of what cohen might say. >> well, yeah. the president is concerned about cohen embarrassing him. but the truth is it's already squeezed out. the intelligence committee, they've already found out about russia. the most he can do is remind of things we already know.
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he's a bigot, we know that. he steals money from charities on his own behalf. he's terrible guy and a grifter. none of these things were new. but the president is hope figure i can manipulate thing flumz top t can change some of the legal consequences. there is nothing that cohen will say next week that hasn't already been chewed through, and sorted by the people that trump really needs worry about, which is the mueller investigation and oversight committees in congress. >> thank you both for being with us. and some surprising too, put it mildly. i would say shocking testimony today as the republican congressional candidate in that one uncalled house race, he took the stand una hearing on election fraud in north carolina's ninth district. what it means for this still undecided race. we're going to get to all of it straight ahead. straight ahead to the cafeteria and just chow down midday?
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." breaking news in the ongoing battle for north korea's ninth congressional district. that's the last uncalled election of 2018 and in a shocking turn of events the state board of elections voted unanimously to order a new election. thaw say november's results were tainted by ballot fraud. that decision came after the republican candidate, who had been leaning in the initial
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count, mark harris, called himself for a new election. >> in testimony i've listened to over the past three days, i believe a new election should be called. it's become clear to me that public's confidence in the 9th district seat general election has been undermined to an extent that a new election is warranted. >> now harris's concession come as day after the surprise testimony of his own son who's an assistant u.s. attorn a in north carolina. >> you had suspicions from about mccray dallas from the start? >> yes. since the 2016 primary election and based on those results. >> and you expressed that to dad? >> i did. i love my mom, i love my dad and i know they made mistakes and did things differently than i would have done them.
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>> and he talked about his son, referring to him as having a little taste of aerogns. >> obviously i would have seen those today in a different and intellectual light than when i read them when my 27-year-old who is a sharp attorney, extremely sharp but i'm his dad and i know he's a little judgmental and has a little taste of arrogance and some other things. >> joining me now from raleigh, lean caldwell. she had been covering this all week. they tell us "law and order", matlock, doesn't play out in real life. this wasn't a courtroom, but a hearing. but surprise witnesses, outcome nobody was expecting. mark harris -- take us through what happened. but he abruptly called for a break and came back and called for a new election.
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>> reporter: it was incredible. and that is by far an understatement. when we started this hearing on monday, this was completely unexpected. when we started the day today, it was unexpected. but things were not looking good for marb harris. the republican candidate who had been fighting since election day for the board to certify his election, but the tainted absentee ballots were too much. they opened an investigation and here we are. first oall of his son testified against him yesterday. this morning there was new evidence that came out late last night where mccreedy's attorneys in the state board of investigations was like where did this come from? why are we only seeing this document now? and then mccreedy walked himself into a perjury box. he was asked questions about conversations he had before the hearing started with some of his family members regarding some emails.
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and he answered what could have been untruthfully. immediately after he answered, his lawyers said hold on. let's go to a closed session. i need to talk to my client. they came out of the lunch break, the closed session. mark harris retracted his statement and then he said let's have a new election. >> i think he said mccreedy -- i think he meant to say harris is walking into the perjury trap right there. so that raises the next question. >> reporter: yes. >> so harass was walking in to perjury trap, had this abrupt change of heart, sited medical issues and there's going to be a new election now. does this mean harris, who ran for congress a couple of times in this district, does that mean he's expected not to run in this special election? >> it's unclear. his attorney said that's a premature question at this
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point. i don't really see how mark harris does run. he's tainted after this election. he is having some health issues that are serious. so but regardless of who jumps in the race for the republicans, they are going to have to have another primary. they're going to have to have a general election. it's looking like there's not going to be a new election until the fall. we're going to go months without a representative in the 9th congressional district. >> sdwroojust to set the stakes foks. we said democrats got a net gain of 40 seats in the house in the 2018 midterms is when we'll still count towards 2018. this had been a republican-held seat. harris took out a republican incumbent, so eif the democrats win the election, that would be a net gain of 41 seats.
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i hope you didn't etch that 40 in stone because it could end up being 41. you have been following this story all week. really appreciate you keeping us posted. and up next, i'm going to head to big board and see what the polls are saying about biden's. polls are saying about biden's. i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need.
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all right. welcome back to "hardball." kamala harris is in, cory booker is in. about 200 other democrats, it seems, is in the race and yet there's one name everybody is still waiting on. the former vice president, joe biden. a decision we've been told is coming and coming and coming. it's probably going to have to be soon and as we wait for it, you know what we have been here before.
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joe biden has put everybody through a waiting period like this a couple of times. you can go back to 1980. there wasn't a big public agony. but he did consider running for president in 1980. he stayed out in 1984, a little bit of pressure to get in. and stayed out in 1984. he did try to run in 1988. a plagiarism scandal. and biden said maybe i'll run this time. stayed out. of course he ran and lost in 2008 but got that ultimate consolation prize and ended up on barack obama's ticket and eight years as vice president. and then the waiting game. he stayed out in 2016. everybody thought, biden included, that would be it for him. and it looked like he has one
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more crack at it. where do things stand? nationally these are numbers we've seen. we have biden at 30%. bernie sanders in second place. this has him in the low twentsz. one of the best polls bernie sanders has had nationally. kamala harris seems to have established herself in third place. how about the early states. take a look in iowa. again biden out front there. new hampshire, first primary state. biden out front there. bernie sanders there. and his next door neighbor. remember vermont won new hampshire. so that's where biden stands when you poll him right now. here's one cautionary note. there was another "washington post"/abc did.
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instead of giving all the names of the candidates, they made it open ended. they didn't give them any names and said democratic race, who do you want to be the nominee? what is that going to catch? maybe that's going to get who people are really committed to. maybe that indicates a deeper, more committed level of support. what happened when they did that? biden still thread pack but the number to single digits, kamala harris, 8%. bernie sanders 6%. i haven't seen this done in all the past races so i can tell you what it means. but it's an interesting type of poll to start doing. i'm curious if biden runs, which one of those numbers ends up being more reliable, the number at 30% or the one at 9%. a lot for him to be weighing right now.
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he's got one more crack that if he wants it. so what is holding him back? up next we're dpeing to talk about that. we've got some new reporting from nbc news about what exactly could be holding joe biden back. y could be holding joe benid back. yes, we are twins. when i went on to ancestry, i just put in the name of my parents and my grandparents. i was getting all these leaves and i was going back generation after generation. you start to see documents and you see signatures of people that you've never met. i mean, you don't know these people, but you feel like you do. you get connected to them. i wish that i could get into a time machine and go back 100 years, 200 years and just meet these people. being on ancestry just made me feel like i belonged somewhere. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com. because they let me to customize my insurance, and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything. like my bike and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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sleepy joe. >> number one, he can't draw a crowd. you see what we have. i wish bideen the best. i hope he's going to be the nominee. what percent joe? >> we call him 1% biden. he's tough guy. he's a real genius. >> i want to challenge him to a fight behind the barn. oh would i love that. would that be good? >> they're reporting that joe biden wants to be president and each day he's closer to being ready to run for office. however he's carefully considering a crucial question, what happens when the president of the top allies try to make his family an issue? joining me is national political reporter who did reporting on biden on his deliberations. so take us through this. you're finding that biggest
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hurdle right now in biden's mind is what this is going to do to his family? >> i've been asking joe biden and his team about running for president since election day, 2012. obviously he passed on that with the unusual death of his son. i've been asking what's different now that wasn't then? his engagement in the process is light years ahead of last time but taking it much more seriously. conversations are much more serious. but the same thing in 2016 is true now but in a very different way. let's talk about what of the family is ready after such an emotional loss. it's about what happens in this environment when president trump has shown he's willing to go anywhere to attack his opponents. they've been doing drills, what happens when trump tweets and his conversations with top democrats, potential donors. he's raising the issue himself.
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this is very clearly front of mind. we expect by april is the hope of his team. he has to talk to his grand kids and kids, make sure they're ready for a very public airing of some of the family's troubles. >> it sounds funny to say. all these other candidates are out there. is there any fear among folks around biden that by waiting to the extent he has, the decisions effectively made for him. >> biden's been saying publicly it's way too early to have to make a decision. as one advisor put it there will be another super bowl before the next iowa caucus. the risk when you wait is his advantages and as the field is continuing to grow and people get comfortable with some of the options there, his numbers begin to slip. the other factor is i think as he sees -- one of his arguments
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is he thinks he's tlr best democrat to win. one of the reporting is he's actually calling the other candidates wishing them well. he's looking at what they're doing closely and if one of them can demonstrate they're strong enough to win, maybe that can effect his decision as well. >> it's fascinating that decision that he has in his head they're the most electable. pennsylvania, wisconsin, combined trump margin. flip those states back, and keep everything else democrat to win the election. when you look back a couple of years ago, before he sat out of the 2016 ros rb his poll numbers weren't that good. >> it's totally different wauns candidate is actually a candidate. as we saw with hillary clinton. when before she was candidate, her personal approval numbers were sky high.
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like you said there's a little bit of a disparity in those numbers when you have a blank question asking people who they support verses throwing joe biden at them and if joe biden is whatting to see who else gets into the races, that yes, there will be many other people that demonstrate they can also be electable. and then there's the question of if he did get into the race, how are the democratic base going to respond to that? because right now his main argument is -- you know, he has to get in because he's tlr only one that can win. but once you're in, it's all about who'ser going to excite the base? who's go having to the best ideas? and you see eall these other democrats running to the left on issues like medicare for all. and joe biden is going to have to at some point be something other than i'm the guy that can beat trump. >> when biden passed on the 2016
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race, he did so understanding it might be the last chance to win for presidency. hillary clinton's clinton defeat to trump affords biden, at 76 -- look at age factor. we've got to have more than ever before 70 plus year olds running for president. i think there's five of them out there. so age doesn't mean what it used to yet. he'll be 78 on inauguration day. is there any talk of if you run, you put something throughout about one term? >> there are conversations much earlier on about potentially putting that out there. there are down sizes of immediately making yourself a lame duck. and potential early announcement of a running mate is on the table as well. one of the things he's reminding people how many campaign events, how many candidates he was there for. i've been out there, as he said recently. yv campaigned for more democrats
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than anyone else. i still have the stamina. i can do it. >> he's still got the energy to do it. and can you see this idea of him making an endorsement? is there anybody he's be a natural fit? >> you mean if he doesn't run, being a king maker? here's the concern. there's early reporting that he'sallred he's already reached out to beto o'rourke as a potential running mate and to me that says he is not learned the lesson and that's the women and minorities were behind the ground swell. they are the majority of the candidates raising their hands. so if that is true, i think that is problematic. he could be king maker.
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a mitch landrieu and he deeds we're safe. this is my guy. >> or whoever it is, stay at 2% or something, maybe you're not king maker. thank you for being with us. up next the other legal drama that unfolded in chicago today. a that unfolded in chicago today. >> do you have a moment to chat what's your reaction? mitch mcconnell spoke to the pd but he's going to declare a national emergency simultaneously. do you think that's the right plan? >> no, i do not. i think declaring a national emergency is not good for the president to do. emergency is not good for the president to do. great news, liberty mutual customizes-
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during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you're allergic to insulin. get medical help right away if you have a serious allergic reaction such as body rash, or trouble breathing. don't reuse needles, or share insulin pens. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be life-threatening. it may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. check your blood sugar levels daily. injection site reactions may occur. don't change your dose of insulin without talking to your doctor. tell your doctor about all your medicines and medical conditions. check insulin label each time you inject. taking tzds with insulins like toujeo® may cause heart failure that can lead to death. toujeo®, ask your doctor. ♪let's groove tonight.
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the legal drama today didn't all involve roger stone. there was also the matter of act actor, jussie smollett. authorities believe he master minded a hoax, by paying two men to acost him and telling the whole world that they hurled racial and homophobic insults and put a noose on his neck. he said his attackers told him he was in maga country and suggested he was victimized because i come really hard at 45, meaning presumably the 45th president. from the get go there were reasons to proceed with caution. the incident he said took place in the overnight hours of a bitterly freezing cold night with the polar vortex in full force. two racist goons were walking around and ready to go after him with rope and bleach.
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there were reasons to have caution. but not everyone was willing to wait for the please to do their work and piece together what did or didn't happen. plenty of politicians dove right in and turned up the heat. nancy pelosi said if the racist and homophobic attack is an affront on ohumanity. presidential candidates called it a modern day lynching. harris said we must confront this hate. both booker and harris were pressed by reporters when it was becoming clear smollett was becoming the target of the police investigation. this time harris said i think the facts are still unfolding and there should be an investigation. late today she put out a more thorough statement. booker said he would with hold judgment unthrill til all the information comes out. it's probably good advice for all of us. news especially.
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and there are so many incentives for everyone, politicians, activists, pundits to speak out emphatically out on everything. but it should never be bad form to say i want to wait for all the facts before i react. and if we created a an environment where it is, ticket something we all should address. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in. " >> oh, my god, i'm busted. >> roger stone's spectacular smack down. tonight the president's long-time advisor gagged by the federal judge. plus wlie the president's lawyer was meeting senators on the hill today. plus matt milleren the silence from the president after the arrest of an alleged right-wing terrorist inside the federal government. then the

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