tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC February 22, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PST
during world war ii. the son of an economics professor, a serious musician who played the goofball on the show. davie jones died in 2012. tork is survived by the other two serious musicians, micky dolenz and the prolific michael nesmith who this year are back out on the road even though their friend peter tork is gone at the age of 77. that is our broadcast for we thank you for being here with us and good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. tonight on "all in." >> oh, my god, i'm busted. >> roger stone's spectacular smackdown. tonight the president's long-time advisor gagged by the federal judge. plus, why the president's lawyer was meeting senators on the hill today. >> mr. cohen, any message to the president? plus, matt miller on the silence from the president after the arrest of an alleged right-wing domestic terrorist inside the federal government. then the election fraud hearing in north carolina takes a stunning turn. >> did you have any knowledge of
a ballot-harvesting operation? >> absolutely not. and his presidential campaign is two days old and already breaking fund-raising records. my exclusive interview with bernie sanders. "all in" starts right now. good evening from los angeles. i'm chris hayes and it's another absolutely insane news day. indicted trump ally roger stone has been hit with a strict gag order by the judge in his case after he posted her picture online alongside an image of crosshairs. a new congressional election was called in north carolina after an elections board hearing on flagrant election fraud to boost the republican candidate. there's been a string of reports the mueller probe may be poised to wrap up any day as long-time trump fixer michael cohen prepares to testify three times before congress next week. and democrats are taking their first concrete legislative steps to block the president's national emergency declaration at the border with a resolution
to terminate his effort to circumvent congress to build the wall mexico was supposed to pay for. and then there's all the action in the race to take on trump in 2020. a new "time" magazine cover depicting trump looking back over his shoulder as a crowded field of declared and potential candidates eyes the oval office. two days ago a major candidate formally entered the race, promptly raised nearly $6 million in just 24 hours. vermont senator bernie sanders, the runner-up for the democratic nomination last time around, declaring the time had come to "complete the revolution" and make his vision a reality. joining me now for his first primetime interview since declaring his candidacy, vermont independent senator bernie sanders. senator, let me just start with the emergency declaration since that's in the news today. chuck schumer says the senate's going to introduce a resolution as well to pair with the house. do you support that resolution? >> of course i do. what the president is doing is unconstitutional, illegal and part of his movement towards an authoritarian society.
this guy clearly is not familiar with the constitution, clearly not familiar with the separation of powers. he thinks he's got it all, he's the only one running the government. and that has got to stop. >> you ran for president in 2016. it was a long race, it was a hard-fought race. it's a very different world two years later for a lot of reasons. there's probably a dozen or so candidates or more who will be in the race. the issue platforms have changed quite a bit. there's several candidates that have endorsed medicare for all or free college which are issues you had championed. why did you take a look at this race this time and say i have to run again? >> i think for a couple reasons, chris. first of all, i'm proud of what we accomplished in 2016 and i'm proud that we changed the political discourse in this country. that ideas that today are widely accepted are part of the mainstream, are being supported by many democratic candidates. if you will recall, three years ago while these ideas were
considered to be radical and extreme and in fringe -- and fringe ideas. we have come a long way i think in transforming the democratic party and making it into a more progressive party. second of all, part of the political revolution was to mobilize millions of people at the grassroots level. and what i'm very proud of in terms of what we have accomplished in the last two days, the media talks about the money. that's great. but we now have close to 1 million people who have signed up, who want to be involved in an unprecedented campaign. and why that's important is that i believe from the bottom of my heart that if you learn from the civil rights movement, from the trade union movement, from the women's movement, from the gay movement, you know that real change in this country never occurs unless millions of people are standing up and fighting back. so if we're going to pass medicare for all, we need to
mobilize millions of people to stand up to the insurance companies and the drug companies. that's what this campaign is about. >> i want to ask another question about this campaign versus last campaign because obviously that was a very hard-fought primary. it went on for a very long time. it was compete in a way i think some people didn't expect at the beginning of it. and if you're going to win this time there are people who voted for hillary clinton the last time around whose votes you will need this time in a democratic primary. and there's stilling some bad blood. there's still folks i talk to who exist in the political world who are loyal democrats who feel frustrated by what they felt was your lack of loyalty to the party or your support of hillary clinton or extending the primary too long. and my question to you is what is the message for those folks out there who may still have sore feelings about that? >> i do understand that, chris. but let's get the facts correct. after i endorsed hillary clinton, i went all over this country and i worked as hard as i could to see that she was elected.
and i think we should get that clear. i think the main point to be made is that where we are right now is that many of the major issues that i have been talking about for years are now widely supported by the american people. and what we have got to do is take trump's desire to divide us up by the color of our skin or where we were born or our sexual orientation or our agenda. we have got to bring our people together around a progressive agenda. health care is a human right. we're going to raise that minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. we're going to in a highly competitive global economy make public colleges and universities tuition free and lower student dect. we are going to address the existential crisis of climate change, transform our energy system, and create millions of jobs in the process. criminal justice reform, immigration reform. those ideas are now ideas that
the overwhelming majority of the democratic party believe in and we got to bring people together around that agenda. >> one more question about 2016 and about your campaign because you were mayor of burlington, vermont. so you have some executive experience. but that campaign was a large enterprise you were managing. there's been some complaints, it's been well reported, i know you met with some folks from the campaign-b the culture and atmosphere in that campaign particularly as it pertains to sexual harassment being tolerated, and the diversity of the senior leadership of that campaign at a time when the democratic party is a diverse party being excessively white and male and not having enough voices. do you take those criticisms to heart or are you doing things differently this time? >> absolutely. we take those criticisms to heart. when people said that our campaign was too white, too male oriented, they are right. you take a look at the staff that we are putting together right now. take a look at who our national cochairs are. you will see a fundamental
difference in the way our campaign is operating. in terms of the issue of sexual harassment, that has troubled me immensely and we are putting together a protocol now which will be stronger than any campaign has ever put together so that we prevent any of the problems we saw in 2016. >> you just talked about a lot of issues that are issues you feel passionately about that you campaigned about. medicare for all, climate, the new green deal, criminal justice reform. but prioritization seems a key question in this primary. it's a question i've had every candidate we've had on. what is your first -- you're inaugurated by an electoral miracle or a lot of hard work. the democrats have a majority of the senate and the house. what's your first piece of domestic legislation that you move? >> i don't look at it that way, chris. what he i look at is looking at a 100-day period and pushing
forward that progressive agenda. we've got to raise that minimum wage to a living wage. we have to pass medicare for all. we have to transform our energy system. so i don't see it as one piece of legislation. we have enormous crises in this country. in terms of income and wealth inequality. in terms of millions of people living in poverty. in terms of a shrinking middle class. it's not just one issue. we need a progressive agenda. that's what i've been campaigning on. >> let me stop you. you're a united states senator who knows your way around the legislative process and you know how important political capital and sequencing are and prioritization. we know parties come in and they have priorities and those priorities when they come in first those bills get the best sort of amount of force behind them and then you go later through the administration and they get less and less. that's just the facts of how things work. >> well, i think you're looking at the past. you're not looking at i think what life would be like if i'm going to be elected president of the united states. there's going to be a sense of urgency.
we're not going to do things the same old way. we have major crises in this country. and especially after four years of the disaster of what will be the disaster of trump if he lasts four years, we're going to have to move rapidly in addressing issue after issue after issue. and let me mention some other issues i think have not been talked about. we have to pay more attention to rural america. life expectancy going down. opioid epidemic. young people leaving their communities. we have to pay more attention to rural communities. we have to pay attention to the impact of artificial intelligence and robotics is having on our society and driving people out of the jobs they've had for years. there is an enormous amount of work to be done. we start -- we're going to need a president and a congress to focus on issue after issue to transform the economic and political life of this country. >> we've talked a lot about
domestic issues and you've been fairly active on some foreign policy issues, particularly on yemen where you've worked with some senators across the aisle on the war powers resolution, which was successful in the last congress and might come up again. and there's been reporting about sort of your foreign policy staff being filled out more. i wonder like, is there a sanders doctrine? is there a way that you view american leadership and foreign policy were you to become president? >> in 30 seconds or less, right? >> exactly. well, 15. i've got to get to some other stuff. >> all right. you've got a president today who supports literally, literally supports authoritarian regimes all over the world, who supports governments run by kleptocrates who are billionaires. my vision of american leadership in the world is leadership which supports democracy, supports
human rights, supports the entire world coming together to address the planetary crisis of climate change. people all over the world saying you know, what it affects china, it affects india, it affects the united states. we've got to work together. i see a world beginning to address massive global incoming wealth and equality, where today you have a few hundred people. own more wealth than the bottom half of the world's population. i see us addressing the problems of global poverty. i see us being the country where the rest of the world looks to the united states and says thank you, america, for supporting human rights, democracy, and economic justice. >> i want to ask you about socialism. there's an e-mail that went out i think in the last few days from the trump campaign which of course is already up and running. it's a fund-raising e-mail. it says bernie sanders announced he will be running for president in 2020 with a very simple platform, full-blown socialism.
not partial socialism. full-blown socialism. you've called yourself a socialist for years. it's been a question on the campaign trail. other candidates have said they're not socialists, they're capitalists. but there's this debate that has ensued about what does that mean. a lot of conservatives have pointed to venezuela and said food shortages, increasing authoritarianism is what socialism means and it's what bernie sanders wants. what is your definition of socialism? what's your model for it? >> i think that when we look at a modern democratic civilized society you're looking at economic rights in addition to political freedoms. so right now we have a constitution, you have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, et cetera. i happen to believe that in the year 2019 with all of the wealth around us we can create an economy which guarantees health care to all people as a human right, which guarantees education from child care to
higher education as a human right, which guarantees the right of people to have decent and affordable housing, which makes sure you're living in a community where the water that you are drinking and the air you are breathing is clean. economic rights as human rights. and by the way, chris -- >> that's my question. what you're describing is the mixed economy. there's a national health service in the uk. there are the united states of public housing. we have public provision of those goods. is there something over and above that distinguishes your vision from a kind of welfare state mixed economy? >> well, i should also add that in 1944 this is exactly what franklin delano roosevelt talked about. he talked about jobs and health care and education as a human right to be guaranteed by the government. and what i'm talking about exists in many countries all over the world. you go to countries in scann
scandinav scandinavia, college education is free. every other major country on earth guarantees health care to all people as a right. most countries have higher minimum wages than we do. so essentially what we are talking about is making sure that a vibrant democracy guarantees that all of our people can have a decent standard of living and that we do not have this grotesque level of income and wealth inequality where three people end up more than half of the country where a handful of billionaires can spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy elections. that's what the political revolution is about. that's what democratic socialism means to me. >> let me return to the venezuela case because it has been so used by conservatives in the u.s. on exactly this. you've been critical of the maduro regime. i think also critical of some of the steps taken by the trump administration sort of ratcheting up pressure. but what is the bernie sanders theory of the case for why venezuela is the way it is?
what went wrong there in what was an avowedly socialist project? >> well, that's a long story that i don't think we have the time to get into. but this is what i will say, and that is that i think there must be free and fair elections in venezuela. the last elections were not free. second of all, we have to do all we can to provide humanitarian aid to other countries so the people do not starve to death. and thirdly, we need to make certain that the united states does not do what it has done time and time again in our history and that is get involved in overthrowing governments in latin america. we did that in chile. we did that in brazil, guatemala, other countries. we should not be doing that now. the future of venezuela must rest with the venezuelan people, not the trust administration. >> you spoke before about a political revolution, talked about an ambitious 100-day
agenda. one of the bottlenecks for all of that right now is the house of congress you call your own, the united states senate, it has a filibuster, which as we know from the history increased rapidly in its deployment. it's essentially used as a 60-vote threshold for almost anything other than reconciliation in budgeting. some people have come out in favor of abolishing the filibuster. do you favor abolishing the filibuster? >> well, one of those people is donald trump. so i think we should be thoughtful and clear about this is what trump would like to see. before we get into that, which is a very legitimate question, we need to, a, make sure the democrats control the united states senate, which is not guaranteed by any means. >> no, it's not. >> and second of all, it's not good enough to have 51 democrats or 51 democrats and a democratic president. it is important to have progressive democrats. because if you think that every democrat currently in the united states senate is going to support a progressive agenda think twice. that's not the case.
>> right. but isn't that even more of the case for 60 votes? >> i think what we have got to do -- you're asking a legitimate question, but let's get first things first. let's elect the democratic senate, let's make sure that as many as possible are progressives. but this is what i believe. it's what i said a moment ago. we make change when millions of people demand that change. and i believe that when people stand up and fight back yes, you are going to have the united states congress start listening to ordinary americans rather than wealthy campaign contributors. >> senator bernie sanders, senator from vermont, thanks so much for taking time tonight. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> next, roger stone's dirty tricks catch up with him again. the amazing scene that unfolded in court between the president's former political adviser and a federal judge, right after this. a federal judge, right after this. this is not a bed.
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roger stone is officially gagged. that's pursuant to an order from judge amy berman jackson today in federal court. a hearing calmed by the judge herself after the notoriously publicity-hungry trump adviser posted a picture of judge jackson next to what appeared to be crosshairs. stone was apologetic, quite apologetic today in court, but the judge was not buying it. she alluded to the coast guard member who officials say compiled a hit list of public officials and a stockpile of weapons saying you don't even have to look at the papers beyond today to know that inciting extremists to violent action is a possibility. judge jackson also warned stone this is his last chance before she revokes his bail, sending
him to jail. "today i gave you a second chance. this is not baseball. you do not get a third chance." to discuss the judge's actions today and what they might portend for roger stone i want to bring in two msnbc legal analysts. paul butler, former prosecutor who worked in the department of justice's public integrity unit on cases of public corruption. and maya wily, the senior vice president of social justice at the new school. maya, you don't see this that often but i guess you don't see people who are like roger stone that often. >> it is very rare to have someone, particularly someone who should be as knowledgeable and who is as well represented as roger stone literally threaten a federal judge. and that is what happened here. and one of the things we must focus in on is, one, the judge was restrained. she clearly was concerned but also really gave him the opportunity. remember that prosecutors wanted
him more gagged than she agreed to gag him. he can still talk about his innocence. he can still ask for donations for his legal defense. but he can't talk about the case. and what he posted, by the way, it wasn't just the crosshairs. i think it's really important to elevate that he talked about the mueller probe as the deep state. and the reason that lends itself to being threatening, particularly where he has named a federal judge as if she is not an unbiased and impartial jurist, is that the deep state reference has caused people to go out and threaten the lives of others in the past, particularly using the infowars platform which roger stone himself has used. so just go back to pizzagate and the guy who showed up with an assault rifle after pizzagate that he saw. so it's not theoretical. and she was both restrained but also trying to protect both the
integrity of the process, and he -- i think what was really interesting is he finally got that you know, his dirty tricks, as he refers to himself as a trickster, his dirty tricks here, which he may not intend, we don't know what his intention is in terms of promotion of violence, maybe it was just a better way to fund-raise, doesn't really matter when people go out and actually commit violent acts because of what you said. >> you know, paul, i've seen a lot of -- i've seen immigration lawyers and public defenders and defense attorneys weighing in today saying if my client was out on bail and then posted an image of the judge in the case with crosshairs, they're not getting a second chance. what do you think? >> absolutely. i think the judge went too easy on roger stone. chris, remember the fbi raid with 29 armed agents, the s.w.a.t. team, the assault rifle. they justified that by saying this is a dangerous guy. nonetheless, he got released on
bail, and what does he do? he posts an image on instagram of the judge in crosshairs and then has the temerity to go to court and lie about it, saying i didn't know they were crosshairs, i thought it was an occult symbol. if this was a guy named kwame or pedro and not roger stone, not only would the judge have locked him up today, the prosecutor would have charged him with threatening a judicial officer. >> yeah, i should note one small thing, which is the crosshairs were just adjacent to the judge's picture, just to be scrupulously factual about the image that was posted. there's also, maya, there's a strange thing happening in the roger stone case which i can't get my head around, so maybe you can eliminate. the stone case is going to go for months. he's going to go to trial. and we have this reporting of the mueller report's going to be delivered. but those are mueller's prosecutors. right? they're going to have to stay on that case. is that your understanding? >> look, yes. what i said earlier today was
there's a -- journalists will say this is wrapping because we're hearing that there's going to be a report from robert mueller. what lawyers hear is this is at -- we're finishing act 2 of a three-act play and now we're moving into the third act. it's not because it's over. there's not a wrap. there are -- there's a trial. there may be more indictments. and there's the continuing investigations happening out of the u.s. attorney's offices, which are a continuation of the mueller probe even if they're not called the mueller probe. and what we heard and what we learned yesterday from nicolle wallace from the andrew mccabe interview, which is so important, is he intentionally organized the probe, what became the probe, in a way that would protect the integrity of the investigations so that they could go where they needed to go without interference from the white house. that is critically important. >> yeah, paul. >> chris, actually, from today's hearing some kind of bad news for donald trump.
so roger never apologize, never say you're sorry stone, he groveled, man. he groveled, he pled. he begged the judge not to send him to prison. this is a man who does not want to go to prison who's charged with five counts of false statements that he does not have a defense to. that's why he's attacking the judge and the prosecutor rather than making a case. so unless he's making a deal, homeboy is going to prison for 10 or 20 years. so the fact today that he clearly does not want to get locked up means that he's got to make a deal or, again, he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life. >> or donald trump pardons him, which is apparently what he thinks might happen. >> but it's a great point because everyone who was in that courtroom today and when you saw the transcript was noting that mr. defiant, nixon impersonating, down the block tough roger stone was nowhere to be found as he lay himself
before the mercy of the court. and paul, that's a good point because from a psychological perspective that was a tell the man is not particularly interested in spending time behind bars, which is of course the threat looming over him right now, which is something the white house might take note of. paul butler and maya wily, thank you both. >> thank you. still ahead, deafening silence from the white house on the arrest of a white supremacist working inside the government planning a mass terror attack. what we're learning about the coast guard lieutenant arrested last week and why donald trump hasn't said anything about it. np hasn't said anything about it.
we're learning more today about the coast guard lieutenant who's being described by prosecutors as a domestic terrorist who intended to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country. that's a quote. christopher hasson appeared at a hearing this afternoon where the judge ordered him held for at least two more weeks and prosecutors revealed he spent hours online researching mass attackers including the unabomber and the virginia tech gunman. hasson was raeftd friday on drugs and weapons charges. prosecutors say he had 15 weapons, 1,000 rounds of ammunition, a stockpile of drugs and a list of targets including prominent democrats and journalists. the only reason we found out about any of this is because of a college professor, sheamus hughes, who's the deputy director of the program on extremism at george washington university, tweeted about the case yesterday after learning the details from a detention memo that was filed in a maryland court. naturally, when news outlets saw this they picked up the story. but to be clear, that's not how
we normally learn about these kinds of things. this is a case where good police law enforcement work nabbed someone who appears to be clearly dangerous before he's able to do something terrible. usually law enforcement wants to take a victory lap when that happens. and yet for nearly a week after the arrest there was complete radio silence from the fbi, from the investigator, from the prosecutors, from the justice department, and from the white house. there's still no response from the white house despite repeated questioning from nbc news about if or when the president was briefed and if he was aware of the arrest when he tweeted yesterday that the "new york times" is the enemy of the people. i'm joined now by someone who used to literally run communications at the justice department whose job included putting out press releases on these kinds of cases. matt miller, former chief spokesperson at the doj and an msnbc national security and justice analyst. okay, matt. i was scratching my head yesterday about how did we not learn about this for a week. am i wrong that this is weird? >> it's absolutely weird.
it's been six days now. you would have expected them to put out a press release when they arrested him on friday and if not o'on friday, yesterday when they revealed these details about what exactly he was plotting. and i would say your point about them wanting to take a victory lap is true. they very much do want to take a victory lap. but there are also law enforcement reasons why they like to publicize these cases, not just for this case, where although that's important, you'd like to know if there are other people who know information about him, you'd like them to come forward, but because this isn't the only white nationalist domestic terrorist out there. these cases have been on the rise. and by sending -- by publicizing this case you send the message that we'll take it seriously and you also let other people who might be around potential domestic terrorists know the warning signs if someone is stockpiling guns and reading right-wing manifestos, that's a warning sign it's time to call the fbi. it makes our country less safe by not publicizing these cases. >> that's a great point. so if there's someone in your life who you are encountering who's very obsessed with like, you know, eliminationist rhetoric and constantly talking about mass killers and
stockpiling weapons you might be a little concerned and something like this can sort of give people a little bit of an incentive to think harshly about that. >> that's absolutely right. and that's why the justice department publicizes these cases and similar cases. although i will say this isn't the first time under this administration they have sat on one of these. there was a case of a white supremacist last year in nebraska, in january, who tried to take over an amtrak train. he had a gun, took over a train and was subdued by the crew and passengers. and and the justice department in that case didn't put out a press release either. they only found out because some local reporter as happened here was combing court filings and came across it. it's not the way we did things when i was there, it's not the way the justice department did things in previous administrations. it's really hard to come up with a good reason. i wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt here but i cannot come up with any reason why they wouldn't publicize this case, any legitimate reason i should say. >> it's also the case that i think there's concern -- there's a kind of embarrassment factor a
little bit because the guy is a current officer, lieutenant in the united states coast guard. he's in the marines for 20 years. i mean, you wonder if that plays into it too. >> it shouldn't for the justice department. obviously, that's the case for the military. there is an uncomfortable question about whether there's white supremacy on the rise in military. there have been polls that seem to indicate that's true. but that's not the justice department's concern. the justice department doesn't have any concern about that case. they have a concern about keeping the country safe. and the way you keep the country safe is when you arrest these people you alert the people so they know how to be on the lookout for others with warning signs. i could see@coast guard would have this concern and i know why the white house might have different concerns, political concerns. but there's no reason, no legitimate reason the justice department shouldn't be talking about this case. >> matt miller, who worked at the justice department, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. just ahead, so what was donald trump's lawyer doing on capitol hill today? one of the members of congress who is about to question michael
mr. cohen, why were you on the hill today? sir, were you meeting with the senate intel team? >> we're answering no questions. >> what's your message to the president ahead of the mueller report? >> michael cohen was on capitol hill with his lawyer today to review classified documents with senate staff ahead of his closed-door testimony at the senate intel committee on tuesday. he will be appearing under subpoena there before voluntarily hearing -- appearing before two house committees later in the week. his testimony in the house intel committee on thursday will also be closed but crucially on wednesday the whole world will get to hear exactly what michael cohen knows when he testifies to the house oversight committee in an open session. cohen is taking full advantage of the platform. after house oversight chairman elijah cummings announced the hearing yesterday, cohen tweeted, "the schedule has now been set. looking forward to the #american
people hearing my story and my voice #truth." with a link to his go fund me defense page. one of the house oversight committee members who will be at that open hearing on wednesday joins me tonight. congressman katie hill of california. it's great to have you here. >> nice to be here. thank you so much. >> i understand this may be a thing that the chair of this committee was handling. it was on and it was off. now it's back on. what should we make of that? >> it was very clear that both president trump and his lawyer, rudy giuliani, were intimidating michael cohen. so he was -- it came off because of that exactly. his family was in jeopardy. he felt credibly in fear for his family's safety. the fact that we've been able to now get him to come voluntarily is something we're very happy about. this is something that the american people do need to hear in an open setting. >> there was a sort of document put out by elijah cummings' office about the scope and purpose of the hearing.
it's included the president's debts and payments relating to payments to influence the 2016 election, the president's compliance with financial disclosure requirements, compliance with tax laws, efforts by the president and his attorney to intimidate mr. cohen and others not to testify. what are you looking forward -- you're going to get a chance to question the man. what are you looking forward to finding out? >> pieces i'm most interested in are these conflict of interest pieces because i think there are sign after sign after sign showing that trump and his allies, his appointees, the people who are working for him care more about business interests and who they're protecting than they do about the american people and i think that is incredibly dangerous. it's disturbing. it's something we all need to be watching very closely. i want to focus in on those conflicts of interest. i also think the debts and payments around the influence of the election is something we need to be paying attention to. there are attempts to undermine our values and to undermine democracy, western democracy as it is. and so all of that needs to be exposed as much as we possibly can so that we can move forward. this is a travesty. >> i want to zero in on the last thing. it's sort of a remarkable thing.
the president essentially stands accused in federal court according to the southern district of new york and michael cohen of more or less ordering him, directing him is the word, to commit a felony, which is the hush money payments in violation of campaign finance law. that's just a thing that we all kind of know but move on? what do you think about that? >> honestly, this blows my mind because you look back to nixon and watergate. these are things that were happening in the dark and these are things we ultimately got the tapes and that's what showed that what we were able to finally bring him to impeachment and that he ultimately resigned for was this basically this hiding of things. >> smoking gun tape. >> but trump is doing it in public, on twitter, and it's almost like you don't even know -- the justice system doesn't know quite how to respond to that because when someone's committing a crime so blatantly there's no hiding anymore. so i think figuring out how to -- i also think that over the past couple of years because there has been just so much noise about this, so much noise
about the russia investigation, it seemed like partisan politics at least to many people in the beginning, that i think a lot of people are drowning it out and they're getting sort of deaf to it. that means we're losing the gravity of this and i think we really need to bring that back up to the public's -- >> i would agree with you and i think open hearings are a part of rectifying that. i'm curious. you're a freshman member. >> yeah. >> you ran a race and i looked at your race. it was a race that had a lot to do about health care, sort of kitchen table issues. i guess what do you think about communicating to your constituents about how important this is, how much they should care about it, whether or not they're knocking down your door about it. >> this has been on my mind. i just came from the munich security conference and heard all about how russia is the number one threat to us and our allies. and it's known. it is broadly known within the defense community. it is known within every one of our allies. it's just common knowledge. right? but then to see the way that all of this kind of cozying up has been happening, it kind of brought it all into focus for me of like wait, this isn't just
noise, this isn't just something that's related to democrats and republicans, this is completely about the security of our country and who's in power and who they're looking out for. i think we took an oath to protect and defend this country from threats foreign and domestic and that usurps everything else because frankly health care doesn't matter if we don't have a country. >> congresswoman katie hill, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up, we have a massive development in the republican election fraud case unfolding in north carolina. what happened in that courtroom today. shocking stuff. next. m today. shocking stuff next migraine with botox®.
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>> through the testimony i've listened to over the past three days, i believe a new election should be called. it's become clear to me that the public's confidence in the 9th district seat general election has been undermined to an extent that a new election is warranted. >> and remember, republicans first dismissed any chance of fraud when ballot irregularities came to light just in the few days after the elections. and then when it became obvious that something weird did happen, they said it didn't involve enough ballots to affect harris's apparent 905-vote lead. and dallas woodhouse, the executive director of the state's republican party, even attacked the state elections board, saying, and i quote him here, "we think they have abused their discretion and violated the statute. this will inevitably end up in court. the fact of the matter is mark harris won the race. he got more votes." now, when it became obvious harris maybe didn't win after all, republicans began saying harris didn't know anything about what went on or about leslie mccrae dowless, the
operative who appeared to run the whole illegal absentee ballot scheme and was paid by his campaign. then that contention was shot down yesterday by none other than mark harris's own son. assistant u.s. attorney john harris shows up at the hearing and testifies he e-mailed his own father in writing back in 2017 about worries that dowless was breaking the law. >> and you wanted to be clear that this could all blow up, be referred to the d.a. >> yes. there's a legal dimension which i thought they were illegally collecting ballots. >> all of which led to the republican congressional candidate mark harris, the father of the man seen there testifying kind of against him, a man who had sued previously to be seated in congress because it was not fair. that led him to his emotional reversal before the state board of elections today. here with me now, wsoc tv reporter joe bruno whose stellar reporting on this story just won a poke award this week and has
been following the case, joe, really quite something. what was it like to see mark harris in that room on the stand today? >> it was a really interesting day. as one person put it, it's been a week full of bombshells and today was nuclear. really after lunch break it was a really weird feeling inside the rim. we saw people walking back and forth. there were no signs of mark harris. i saw him campaign manager storm out, walk briskly on the phone. that's when we all knew something was up of course. when the state board came back in, mark harris eventually came in the room, he got on the stand and had his stunning admission saying he does believe that there should be a new election. >> he has fought that for a long time. in fact, they've been fighting in court. now that has been called. the question is what happens next and what happens next for mark harris? >> so what happens next is there's going to be a new election. and recently lawmakers in north carolina passed a law that will
require a new primary. so we're going to have a whole crop of republican candidates i have a feeling that are going to want to jump in this race, of course want to look and see if mark harris is going to run for this seat again. maybe they'll look and see if the former representative of this seat, robert pittinger, will jump in the race as well. but we're looking at a new election here of a new primary, potentially a second primary. and i'm thinking we're looking at a similar timeline to the third congressional district seat which was walter jones's before he passed away. >> final question. mccrae dowless, has he faced criminal charges as of yet? >> no, he has not. and we actually checked in with the wick county district attorney today who is overseeing the criminal investigation of this matter. it's a separate parallel investigation. she has been monitoring this hearing all week. she's expecting the state board to send over their findings to their office. and one thing she stressed, no
one got any immunity for the testimony they provided. >> that's another shoe that seems like it will surely drop soon. joe bruno, thanks again for all your great reporting on this. republicans have been fear-mongering about fictional voter fraud by democratic constituencies for years. the president even set up a panel to investigate what he claimed were millions, a preposterous claim, millions of fraudulent votes in 2016. naturally the panel found nothing because there was nothing to find. in texas the republican secretary of state even had to apologize for a false claim about supposed thousands of illegal votes, one of course which the president tweeted about. and the grand irony of course is that the biggest case of electoral fraud in recent memory, one that has nothing to do with all the restrictions republicans say would solve the non-existent problem of voting fraud, the biggest case of electoral fraud in recent memory came from a republican campaign in north carolina. just imagine for a second if democrats had done what the mark harris campaign appears to have done in that congressional race.
here to talk about that, thiena gupta, the president and ceo of the leadership congress on civil rights. and jamel smith. play out the thought experiment. what with we be looking at if there was a democratic congressional candidate who had engaged in what appears to be flagrantly illegal criminal ballot fraud. >> i mean, there would be no question that we would have seen about 20 tweets from the president. >> yep. >> and the whole cadre of folks who have been peddling these lies for so long really to advance policies aimed at shrinking the electorate and preventing folks of color mainly from exercising the franchise. this would be a massive thing that they would be using to justify a whole slew of proposals and policies to shrink the elect rat. and that's what is so deeply ironic. i actually think what's so interesting right now is we're in this moment in this country where the november elections
brought out voters that were frankly really annoyed and fed up with the corruption in our political system and they were, you know, voting for democracy reform up and down. we've got hr-1 now in congress seeking to end all of these lies and that's where the american public need to be. but the kriblths we've been hearing from that crowd that has been peddling those lies i think is fairly telling. >> jameel, what do you think? >> i think she's right. we see here evidence of what actual voter fraud looks like, what ballot fraud looks like. and we shouldn't forget that north carolina's 9th congressional district is a very heavily white district. you have a district that's now almost 80% white. and yet the primary targets of this fraud were black and hispanic voters. so there's still a lot of missing ballots here. there's still a lot of things that are left to be investigated. this isn't over. >> yeah, that's a great point. i want to play a little testimony.
this is a voertd in north carolina who's testifying before the hearing on monday about basically having her vote stolen. take a listen. >> after that they did their signature and then took the ballot. they just took the ballot. >> so part of the scheme here appears to be, vanita, that this was sort of stuffing ballots, taking ballots and filling out for people, but also essentially erasing the votes, tearing up or getting rid of the votes of people they suspected were voting for the democrat, primarily african-americans. >> yeah. i mean, look, this is a criminal illegal scheme and the justice department in washington should be investigating. my understanding is the fbi is investigating. this is of gross massive proportions. bladen county used to be covered by the voting rights act. the shelby county decision gutted that. and we now need to enact and restore the voting rights act and pass a whole slew of reforms
to protect the franchise. we saw massive voter suppression tactics just in this most recent election. the stuff is not from the 1960s and '70s. we are seeing this stuff playing itself out and undermining people's faith in our democracy right now. and that's why we need to really pass these major reforms that we're seeing passed in skates around the country. we need to do it federally. >> jamil, one of the sort of ironic details of this is the fact that so much focus has gone into voter i.d. on the republican conservative side to stop what they say is some, you know, vast amounts of in-person fraud. in this case, and the thing we know is that essentially doesn't exist. the one place there might be vulnerabilities is in absentee ballots, which we also know republican constituencies tend to use more than democratic constituents. >> right. the thing is -- the thing i see here is vigilance. we're not going to see the reforms passed that we need. we're not going to see the
voting rights act magically restored. what we need to have here is voter vigilance going forward, at least through the next couple years, potentially till we get at least another president, potentially democratic takeover in the senate to get these reforms passed. democrats are going to signify what their priorities are in the senate with hr-1, with perhaps other legislation. but voters are going to have to make sure they're on top of their own stuff, their state laws, local ordinances and frankly their candidates' own morals as we see with with mark harris to make sure their votes count. >> do you think there's going to be fallout from this, vanita, in a sort of national sense? >> i think there's been fallout from the 2016 election. i mean, that -- i think the kind of level of concern around russian meddling, voter suppression, targeting and kind of really preying on the vulnerability of racism in this country by outside act ords, by folks inside, the peddling of these lies around massive
illegal voting, in-person illegal voting, all of this stuff is having a really corrosive effect and i think there's no question that we will see in the upcoming election these issues play themselves out on the national >> roger stone avoids jail time, but the judge put the hammer down today and has tightened a gag order on a man who lives to talk. we've got a reporter who was in the courtroom standing by. plus michael cohen's surprise appearance on capitol hill ahead of his three hearings next week and michael cohen has stories to tell about donald trump. plus all these stories that the mueller report is about to come out. out. out. a lot could happen next week and potentially while the president is on the other side of the room rekindling his relationship with the north korean director. all of as "the 11th hour" gets underway tonight.