tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 22, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PST
attorney general, bill barr. this will be the biggest decision of his career. what do you do with whatever mueller gives him. >> so glad you brought up that garrett graf piece. i recommend it toallen. we'll see you more on "morning joe"? just a minute. >> that does it for us on this friday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside louis burgdorf. now it "morning joe." >> as emily jane fox points out, the president will be at his vietnam summit. michael cohen will be testifying to three congressional committees, jared kushner will be meeting with the saudi crown
prince, the vice president will also be abroad and the special counsel could wrap up all next week. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 22nd. along with joe, willie and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, politics editor for the "daily beast" sam stein, legendary ad man, donny deutsch. >> oh, no. >> that's right. >> political analyst susan del percio, pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos back with us this morning. good to have you here this morning. a judge yesterday ordered that 49-year-old christopher paul hassan be held without bail
for at least two more weeks to allow prosecutors to build their case against him. hassan was arrested last week on drug and gun charges. on tuesday prosecutors filed papers alleging he had been gathering a stockpile of weapons and ammo with plans to launch a widespread attack on prominent democratic lawmakers and several high-profile journalists. prosecutors say that the charges against him so far are just the tip of the iceberg. in addition to the evidence found in his home, they cite his alleged google searches on what if trump were illegally impeached and best places to see in d.c. hassan's lawyer is pushing his for client's release, arguing the case against him is thin, arguing that perceived danger has to be based on facts, not
innuendo. the president took to twitter several times covering a variety of topics, high-speed data networks, he weighed in on the jussie smollett saga, tweeted about black history month. but when it came to arguably the biggest threat of politicians and journalists this country has ever seen, he remained silent. even the justice department hasn't said a word outside of court filings. as matt miller points out, neither the white house nor the d.o.j. has felt the need to address this terror plot publicly. now, one week after the arrest. >> look at this list. mike barnicle, there is a terror plot that was seeking to kill the third ranking elected
official in the america, nancy pelosi, and the top democrat in the house of representatives, the top democratic leader in the senate, the last democratic vice presidential candidate, the most prominent members of the current democratic field, who are planning to run in 2020 to challenge donald trump in a democratic election, kamala harris, elizabeth warren, cory booker and even beto o'rourke. i guess he was put on this list because he's even thinking about running against donald trump and richard blumenthal, who is investigating donald trump, national reporters who reported on donald trump and, yes, many of his misdeeds and, mike, you can add to donald trump's list
of misdeeds deafening silence while a sweeping plot to destroy the congressional democratic leadership and to wipe clean the democratic field of candidates who are seeking to run in a democratic election against donald trump next year are all on this plot by this coast guard officer who has been collecting guns and planning this massive attack. not a single word from the president of the united states. and, mike, i guess we should have meecham, but if this is not the greatest plot uncovered against the government of the united states since the night abraham lincoln was assassinated and there was a plot to kill a few of his cabinet members, i'd
like to hear a more significant plot. but again, not a word from the president. that silence is not on deafening, it is -- well, it just speaks volumes. >> well, joe, and it's understandable. i mean, the root of all of these -- this plot is not only nefarious, it's incredible in its depth, all the names that up have just indicated exist, all the planning exists, the use of the coast guard computer at work is the tip-off on this, but the language that is employed by the president of the united states in tweet after tweet after tweet, the language i division that engenders and triggers diseased minds, clearly this man has a diseased mind, it's all right there, traceable back to its root. a lot of it comes from the president's tweets and the way
the president basis himself. so it's understandable that this is met with silence from the white house. what is not understandable is the attitude or the silence thus far of the justice department. the justice department is in pursuit of people who break the law. this is -- we're going to find out how many laws this guy broke. but to not hear from the justice department is kind of astounding. >> by the way, willie, no condemnation from nancy pelosi's counterpart in the house of representatives, kevin mccarthy. not a word from chuck schumer's counterpart in the united states senate that i've heard, mitch mcconnell. not a word from republicans attacking this plot to kill democrats and journalists. and, again, as mike pointed out, nothing from the justice department. not a single word. and again, this is more of the same. we saw the pipe bomber who, again, targeted all of trump's
political opponents. this is actually -- this is something that i guess since he's not saying anything about it, this is something that donald trump does not want to discourage. >> as you say, the threats here and we won't go through all of them, are very specific, including searching where people live and zooming in on their houses and figuring out where people would be when. he had specific people in mind including the members of the united states congress. president trump has been very quick to praise law enforcement and rightly so when they thwart an attack like this. you had the fbi and coast guard investigative service working on this. there's no real good explanation for why he hasn't said a word about it or why mitch mcconnell and others have said a word about it. when you have a self-described white nationalist who has talked about wanting to start a race war, is there a chance this guy could be let out on bond, danny
cevallos? >> it is a possibility. believe it or not, this is not what we call a presumption case. there are a certain set of cases that in the normal -- this doesn't fit within the category where there's a presumption that he should be held pending trial. but as prosecutors say, if this is the tip of the iceberg, you might see additional charges which would bolster their case he should be held pending trial. the bail reform act requires a defendant to be released unless there is no set of conditions that will either ensure his presence at trial or assure the safety of the community. and obviously here the safety of the community is a huge, huge concern. but there a chance with just the pending charges that this
defendant could be released, amazing as it sounds. >> gene robinson, also amazing again, a plot to decapitate the democratic party and its leadership and not a word from a single republican on capitol hill publicly. >> it's astounding. and just do the simple thought experiment. imagine if this guy were muslim. imagine what we would be hearing from republicans on the hill, from president trump, who would be, you know, his thumbs would be sore from all the tweets. we'd be hearing from the justice department. there would be just a huge clamor. imagine if, you know, an immigrant from a middle eastern country, a legal immigrant had been found with that weaponry and that evidence of plotting in his possession. it would be a huge deal for this
administration and for everyone really. and as far as donald trump is concerned, this doesn't seem to have happened. or it happened and he doesn't think it's worthy of note or comment, much less condemnation. >> is it amazing, mika, that you have all these back benchers talking about illegal immigrants committing crimes even in hearings that are about other things when illegal immigrants actually commit crimes at a far lower rate donald trump's administration's stats show than do native americans. and here is a native-born american who is seeking to assassinate members of the free press, the third ranking law enforcement officer in the united states of america, the top democrat in the senate, a
plot to wipe out half of the democrats who are running for president, and not a word from those people who say illegal immigrants pose such an immediate threat to the united states of america. not a single word. >> against the back drop of republicans to cry from the rooftops about a freshman congressman's mistakes making anti-semitic remarks that they immediately apologize for. here we have a domestic terror threat. usually these are moments for unity. usually these are moments for the president to be a leader, to bring the country together, to condemn the threat, to thank the law enforcement officials and intelligence officers and fbi officials who put their lives in danger to tamp down this threat,
to catch the culprit. who knows how many others are out there, to make a statement against such threat and to be unified in terms of party for the country. whether it be a democrat or republican, it's wrong and the president stands up usually and says that to show unity and leadership. these are all things that are something you would expect on a very basic level and for most politicians, this is an opportunity to show leadership and to show what we are about. and it was not only missed, it was avoided purposefully. because it's not like, and help me if i'm wrong here, susan, it's not like someone in the white house didn't say, mr. president, wouldn't you want to make a statement condemning this attack or a republican or are they that lost in themselves or lost in this moment that they wouldn't even think of this? >> of course it's what you would expect from any other leader
other than donald trump. because let's look at his past behavior. when he was a candidate he refused to condemn david duke because he thought it would benefit him politically. during charlottesville, there were good people on both sides, he said, which was absurd and further divided our country. now given an opportunity to just protect our institutions and speak up to say that we are all americans and this kind of a -- an attack on one is an attack on all, of course he doesn't do it because he thinks in some shape or form he's showing that -- he's not playing to his base. he likes -- the worst part is is that he likes these opportunities. he sees these opportunities as a way to play to his base and hype him up. it really is a disservice to our country. what's worse is you do not see the other republicans out there. last week i said where's mitt
romney on the emergency powers? where is mitt romney and other republicans on coming out and saying something about this horrible attempted attack? >> donnie, look at the bottom of this screen. look at the headline. "trump silent on plot to kill critics." let me say it again. donald trump silent on plot to kill critics. and i will say, i will follow up with susan del percio. hey, mitt romney, you think it's a cool idea that somebody is trying to kill nancy pelosi, trying to kill chuck schumer? you work with chuck schumer. you think you should condemn that plot? lindsey graham, you think it's cool, you think you might want to check with the justice department and see why oddly enough they're silent. they're silent about this unbelievable uncovering of a plot to kill half of the democratic field that's running against donald trump, kill the
top democrat in the house, kill the top democrat in the senate, kill one of the top democrats investigating donald trump from a coast guard lieutenant who had been planning domestic terrorism -- >> for years. >> -- and was plotting and actually learning from another white supremacist, donnie. i believe it was in norway, killed 77 people. not a word from trump, not a word from mitch mcconnell, not a word from kevin mccarthy, not a word from the justice department. that is pathetic. and, by the way, donnie, you know trump. does he no what's he's doing? does he know what he's doing here, what he's encouraging by remaining silent? >> is he hoping for a deflection? >> guys, i think we're a little hard on trump.
just monday, alec baldwin, "saturday night live," donald was very, very up front to say that should be looked into. >> so, donnie, he attacks "saturday night live" and says something must be done. >> so let's not go too hard on him. >> he attacks an empire actor and calls that a great disgrace. and he showed news charlottesville what he thinks of white nationalists. a white nationalist threatens to kill half of the democrat being field and there's silence from the justice department. >> roger stone, who is putting cross hairs on a federal judge, a bulls eye on his head and tweeting with his good friend alex jones about a civil war,
we've got to take to the streets, which is my end, end, end about this. as far as mueller wrapping up, what happens in this country because these kind of markers are being put down, if there are impraechlt moves? what happens when donald trump has himself says to people take to the streets? so there's silence right now, which is obviously quite dastardly. the next level is so terrible that he is not only capable of being silent about it but asking for the order. >> we've crept along and no one has stood up so now it's expected trump won't say anything when seeing new reports like this. the closest parallel to this was the shooting of the congressional baseball practice -- >> steve scalise. >> a deranged liberal targeting republicans in that moment.
if i'm recalling correctly, there was universal condemnation, people rallying around their colleagues, it was a standard response to a fairly remarkable and scary incident. we don't have that right now. i would add one other thing that getting lost and maybe it seems trivial, but i think we should have a conversation about how a guy like that can stockpile that many weapons. >> he's not alone. >> clearly not alone. but there's got to be better way -- >> to your initial point after hour after steve were shot at on the baseball field, the democrats had a prayer session, multiple number of democrats issued statements. where are the republicans today on this? where are they? >> and that's where we wrap this up because we get so desensitized along the way.
there are so many stories coming at us. and there is a coarsening and desed desensed desensitizatio desensitization. the president of the united states has nothing when there a a plot to kill his critics. we're in the united states of america. this is not okay. >> a plot to kill the speaker of the house, a lot to kill top journalist and kill half of the people running against donald trump for president of the united states. >> and he says nothing. >> there was a mass freakout from republicans and conservatives because of aoc. she put the wrong document up on her web site and there was a mass freakout because it hadn't
been, i don't know, spell checked, there were some words in there that they didn't -- and they freaked out for a week. now we learn of a plot to kill democrats in the house, to kill democrats in the senate, to kill democrats running for president of the united states and to kill journalists covering donald trump and there's dead silence. >> the president tweets if i misspeak. and yet dead silence on this. think about that. >> dead silence from the right wing trump apologists online. good luck with that. >> we cannot let this go by as we cover the news, and this is news, that the president seemingly is either supporting this or silently standing by as there is this massive threat.
>> we could have talked about empire. >> we've got michael cohen who is going to speak before an open committee quite soon. >> somebody may be getting in trouble for leaking cohen's tax information. >> so there is a lot of other news. but we wanted to take a moment just to pause and look at where we are. still ahead on "morning joe," we have a look at now all the other stories making news this morning. there's quite a lot. we'll be right back. l be right . every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens
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while you're walking. >> it's banned now but we were grandfathered in since we started so long ago. smoke walking. >> but as fast as we walk, i remember you were setting a torrid pace, i've never seen anybody walk as fast as roger stone. boom, this is where we get to it. and the wind-up was big but it's worth it. i've never seen anything, not even you walk as quickly through reporters as roger stone did yesterday. why is that, willie? >> i didn't see the nixon post yesterday when he came out of the courthouse. a federal judge overseeing roger stone's trial has tightened the gag order in his case after telling him he's out of warnings on the matter suggesting potential jail time for future violations. stone faced judge amy berman jackson. the hearing was ordered after an
image posted on an instagram account showing the judge's face next to what appeared to be cross hairs. in course stone apologized for what he called stupidity. stone also argued he didn't think the image contained cross hairs. judge jackson said stone couldn't keep his story straight on the stand and that his apology rings hollow. she added the publicity of the trial cannot possibly subside if the defendant is out there fanning the flames. stressing, quote, today i gave you a second chance. this is not baseball. you don't get a third chance. under the new gag order, stone may not speak publicly about the investigation, the trial or anybody taking part in either. she's still allowing him to raise funds for he is legal
defense and maintain his innocence publicly. anna schechter has been covering this case closely and was outside the courtroom yesterday. we know he made the instagram post, said he didn't think it was staff hairs, blamed it on somebody on his staff but he's also out at gun ranges with conspiracy theorists. >> every single day there has been something on his social media or on info wars. he's invoked the, quote unquote, deep state on almost a daily basis, portraying himself as a victim and mule are as a hitman. it was surprising that the judge called the hearing for the next day. it moved quickly. stone and his inner circle, they
were nervous. they thought he might go to jail yesterday. so hence that very quick walk in there. when he walked out -- he doesn't want to go to jail clearly because he just high tailed it right back down to south florida. i think there's a lot of relief going on for him and his circle right now. >> that swagger was gone yesterday. danny cevallos, were you surprised judge berman didn't send roger stone to jail? what typically happens when you threaten a judge? >> i wasn't surprised because the gag or was separate from the pretrial conditions. he violates his pretrial release if something happens that threatens the safety of the community. even though the judge found he
may have violated the gag order and wasn't credible on the stand, it was fair to give him one more chance. she could have sent him to jail if she found he violated his pretrial conditions. in this case it was a close call between whether or not this was a true threat or just an ill-advised photograph, it plus phone stone's apology, she gave him one more chance. >> during roger stone's -- when he was on the stand, what kind of ludicrous excuses did he have for the judge with regard to what he thought the cross hairs were? >> well, this photo comes from a right-wing conspiracy theory blog, and those of us who have covered stone for a long time, we all know he has young people around him that create the graphics but he's the one who
hits post. so one of these people that work with him, volunteer he explained, found the picture and he said great, go for it. he said he wrote the text, called out the judge for being an obama-pointed judge. so he did own that at least but said he didn't think that it was cross -- he told the judge his lawyers actually wrote the apology that was filed in court and who just signed it. so i think he could have been a lot more contrite. >> judge jackson said she would have liked to have seen him being a little more contrite. anna schechter, thanks so much for your cover in a case.
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the head of the chicago police department is accusing actor jussie smollett of staging an attack on himself because he was unhappy with his salary on the show "empire." smollett appeared before a judge yesterday after being charged with a felony for filing a false police report. in the courtroom smollett appeared visibly frustrated and rolled his eyes during the bond hearing. according to the chicago police superintendent, eddie johnson, smollett sent himself a threatening letter, but when that did not get attention, he paid two brothers $3,500 by check apparently to orchestrate the attack. johnson says the brothers wore gloves and punched msmollett a little bit but authorities believe the scratches and bruises on smollett's face were
self-inflicted. he did not realize the closest camera was facing was wrong direction. >> absolute justice would be an apology to this city that he smear smeared. admitting what he did and then be man enough to offer what he should offer up in terms of all the resources that were put into this. you all gave this a lot more attention than it probably deserved. so when you get the opportunity, the shooting victims and families in this city that are victims of crimes, give them the same amount of attention. >> smollett's legal team said the court system trampled the right to innocence that has no place in the american legal zim
-- system. >> the presumption of guilt against white attackers wearing m maga masks. once again everybody is rushing out, l it was this or whatever happened in that covington, kentucky case or the cavanaugh stories coming out one after another and by the end it was spiked punch lines. everybody on twitter just jumping to conclusions instead of sitting back and waiting for the facts. >> look, i think the person who is allegedly to blame here is jussie smollett, who allegedly made up this abominable story, wasted a thousand hours of
chicago police time, valuable police time in a city with a high murder rate where they need the police resources deployed elsewhere. just a ridiculous story from the beginning it sounded like a page from a rejected screen play, a really bad screen play, all the details that he put in it. and, you know, some people were, frankly, gullible and foolish to sort of jump out. call it a modern day lynching without really examine the story and waiting. it was reported because there there and police, as they had to, took it seriously. but then obviously when police decided that this was not real,
they really went out to document what they alleged was this fraud. and if you listen to that press conference yesterday, my goodness, the amount of evidence that they have documentary evidence, everything, the check. who allegedly committed the fake assault. it just astounding. >> if this happened as described by chicago police yesterday, this is 100% on jussie smollett. but what the police superintendent pointed to yesterday was politicians, people running for president, celebrities and, yes, members of the media jumping out immediately on this before we knew anything, before people knew anything. what did this case beyond just this responsibility and it's on him again, what did this case
tell you about the culture right now? >> it tells me we're in a culture with the obvious, that we're very divided and unfortunately we have a commander in chief that is more of a divider in chief. this is -- race is so much more of an issue than it's ever been in this country. we should be going in the opposite direction. as every decade goes by, race should be a smaller and smaller piece of our collective -- i think it should be tried as a hate crime because this inspire as much hate as any other hate crime and obviously we're not going to put what happened on trump, but we can put on trump clearly the heightened panic and
angst just complete, complete, comb pleat -- moving in the congre congress. >> what do we and members of the media do when we're presented with the next instance of this? i don't want to move away from not believing people instinctively. >> old on a second. sam, why is it i don't we have had people on our self-who run newspapers, who actually say, well, of course they're telling the truth, one day after someone is accused of something. oh, of course, we know they're telling the truth. that's the thing about kavanaugh gnaw and they were doing all the rape you have people coming on this network and other networks
jumping to conclusions. you can't jump to conclusions. isn't that the lesson of this? >> i'm not saying we have to jump to a conclusion, if someone comes forward with an allegation, i think it behooves journalists not to just dismiss it but check it out. >> check it out. as journalists doesn't believe it if you're a journalist, you actually -- check o it o i think we've made progress in the last couple of weeks about understanding that. and i the real damage is that jesse molet has hurt the moodia
other is real victims he diverted chicago p -- including homicides that had to divert funds away from because of his kay. >> so i understand the heart of what you're saying paand i understand that part. >> but this and this medium that we're on. and this has become a weapon. >> sure, yeah. i'm going to google myself for yoors and i'm going to be seen as a homophobe, okay, still, for
a mistake i made months ago. a big mistake. but a mistake i made on the airwaves. does that make me that? does that label me that? now talk about accusations and use video and things that can fly around with no checks. this has become a weapon where sam may want zwrchlt there's too many of us and too much of it goes unchecked and just reputs itself on a cycle. >> and, mike, you know, just to follow up on micah's point here, people can believe what they want to believe. i object what you and --
journalists, newspapers. that's peopleso people have a. >> before they believe anybody on left, before they believe anybody on the right, get the facts a and start tweeting stupid things. >> all of that is true but i don't know what you do about this cultural confess personal but on this story i would have to say that stupt. the lead is life on the street. the lead is the hundreds and hundreds of families, young people, old people in chicago chicago, los angeles, begun who
live and young pop for whatever, for wearing the wrong hat, warring the wrong gang colors, things like that. these young people, many of them are forgotten, their names never appeared in the paper. they were destroyed because of a single act of violence that happens over and over and over. go find those stories in your daily newspaper. they're not there a lot of the time. find those stories being discussed on shows look this. . we don't talk about this many. we don't tack about the people who live under a threat of violence every single day. >> meekia before we wrap this up, i'm going to make the plea that i made yesterday to people who jumped ult ahead of the
story. these wiesel le that's how you get respect again, that's how you build trust. next time don't get out on that ledge where it's too far to walk back. sometimes you get it wrong and it goes a long way to building trust if you just say that, "i got it wrong, i blew this one." >> and gene robinson, mike said what do we do, with this compulsion to tweet? i tell what you we do. if we are editors of newspapers, like "the washington post" or "the new york times" or "the wall street journal" or a lot of local newspaper, we tell our reporters to cool it. you know, if there's a potential hate crime, report on it.
don't editorialize on it. don't assume it's a hate crime. if it's a possible me-too victim, report on it. get the facts. doesn't draw conclusions in the opening story. if it's a story about donald trump, as your editor don't go to war! not our jobs even if it feels good politically. let's social justice lawyers take care of social justice. weep should just report, right? >> right. i think media organizations really should look at their twitter policies. >> amen. >> potential instances like it and a lot of other instances. i just think they should look at them. i realize where in an era where
twitter is important, speed is important. it's different. it's most journalists when they first encountered this story were skeptical and said, wow, that doesn't quite sound right. it is different now that those who have access to uj everybodies did. so the prz political kpm out there with their thousands and hundreds of thousands and in some cases million million the
medos world that we live in now? >> interest we ought to keep looking at it. >> i think the media looks really stupid in this within and. this keeps going back to fob rule o and we may not know, micah. we may not know again all the facts of the case, but it would seem to me and exactly how tole this if you're editorial writers and we're commentators and they're commentators, if they want to change their opinion, that's wrong. but for people writing in the news section, why do they let them be advocates for a cause that they're reporting on? this is absolutely ridiculous.
let them get a cable news show and blab for these hours like i do. but james is wash. >> this is all a gift to trump. >> still to come this morning, the candidate in the disputed north carolina house race makes a stunning reversal, now himself calling for a new election. this is an incredible drama. "morning joe" is coming right back. great news, liberty mutual customizes-
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remember, the truth is not determined by opinion polls, and history is not written by television pundits. ignore the mercenary critics and focus on the things that matter because a republic that endures for centuries is not governed by the daily news cycle. i'm proud of what the department of justice accomplished on my watch in the trump administration. in 1940 attorney general robert jackson explained government lawyers must at times risk ourselves and our records to defend our legal processes from credit and remain a dispassionate, disinterested, impartial impartial enforcer of the law, even if it involves criticism. i took more than my fair share of criticism. but i kept the faith and did my
job and that's all that matters. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it friday, february 22nd. we have politics editor for the "the daily beast" sam stein. >> also with us, donny deutsch. >> we had it better at the top top of the show. >> susan del percio, and joining us, peter baker and kristin -- >> all i want from you, joe, all i want is a gator chomp. that's all i want.
>> here you go. look at that. by the way, a big day for you. happy gator birthday. >> thank you very much. >> i saw on twitter last night, you're out of the 18-34 demographic. >> i think i'm legally not allowed to talk about the youth vote anymore. as of today i have to find a whole new top being to discuss. >> you'll find the older you get, the more you get like me and grandpa simpson. >> top story this morning, a coast guard lieutenant has been ordered to remain behind bars. a judge ordered that 49-year-old christopher paul hassan be held without bail for at least two more weeks it allow prosecutors to build their case against him. hassan was arrested last week on drug and gun charges.
on us that with plans to launch a swed attack on democratic lawmakers and several high-profile journalists. prosecutors say the charges against him so far are just the tip of the iceberg. in addition to the evidence found in his home, they cite his alleged google searches on phrases "what if trump impeached," "best places to see people. and as we pointed out this last hour, the president completely silent on this issue thus far. he took to twitter several times yesterday covering a variety of topi topics, high-sped tay can he weighed in on the jussie
smollett saga. but when it came to the arguably biggest threat against politicians and journalists this country has ever seen, the president of the united states remained completely silent. trump's not alone. even the justice department, which normally does not shy away from publicizing alleged terrorism plots that it uncovers, has not said a wore matt mill are points out, neither the the white house nor the dncht oncht j. -- now one wook after the arrest. >> which is remarkable. and, peter baker -- you nancy pelosi targeted for attack, the democratic leader of the senate, the last democratic vice presidential candidate.
you have kamala harris, elizabeth warren, kirsten gillibrand, beto o'rourke. this follows the pipe bomb sent to democratic leaders a couple months ago, 14 people slaughtered in a pittsburgh synagogue by a man spouting some of donald trump's theories on caravans. why the and most remarkably the justice department. >> it used to be presidents didn't comment on every story that came across the wire. we've gotten into such a different tab it for the last two your long before they were adjudicated or there was any kind of third by a jury.
he hasn't given his strong opinion about people who haven't been convicted of anything yet. but of course it's selective. of course he picks the one that fit his narrative, that fit his world view and that suit the political arguments he's making of the time and this doesn't happen to fit that. >> susan, though, this isn't just any other case. this is a plot to kill the president's political opponents and to kill reporters who actually report on the president. i cannot think of a president, whether it be barack obama or whether george w. bush, climbant, you name it. george top leaders in congress and top presidential candidates were a targeth of a messive conspiracy to decap date within of the two political parties in
mrk? i can if it was one of his supporters launching the attack. >> let's be clear, joe, this was a list that was set out, enemies of the president that he wanted to kill and attack and kill. the president of the united states, not saying anything, has abdicated once again any moral authority he has on guiding this country. we have no leader with any moral values and that is what's just so depressing. what makes me even just more angry, honestly, is the lack of comment from other republicans. how can they not stand up and say how fundamentally wrong this was? they're talking about their colleagues. this is not their enemies. these are the people they work with of day. it's time for the republicans to stand up. it was mentioned last hour, when there was a freshman congress
wrom who made andy semitic row marks inappropriate response. with you the republicans rant making any comment. it's disgrace. >> senate democrats are set to introduce a resolution to blocking trump's emergency declaration. they would only need four republicans to break with the president. the "new york times" is back checking the president's claims on twitter that the wall is already being built. the president is posting these quotes -- he puts video up of construction. and the video he's taying his
lies to a whole new level. >> he's taking credit for i guess maybe it's barack obama's. maybe he can have people go over and mo barack obama's lawn after they're done fixing up his wall. he can say i invented blaum. thank you for renovating barack obama's wall. i'm sure he appreciates it. so, kristin, where do we stand with republicans and the emergency powers? i've been very critical, i have a lot of conservatives about this republican party under i emergency power because they know now it be used to are
enough candidates going to stand up and speak out to stop this? >> it depends on the timeline. at the moment you have about 85% of republican voters who say that they actually support the use of the emergency declaration. and the key piece about that is a prit' object stangs increase. in the abstract, you had plenty of republicans voters who were willing to say maybe i like the wall but i don't like this strategy for getting it. but the moment the president took the action, a lot of republican voters sort of came home. fofr the most part the ideological, constitutional concerns that you and i have at the moment is in kpen tateors, it's in about 15% of the republican electorate. i was honored to see folks like mike lee coming out to make the executive powers argument.
compared to past presidents would be a bad place to be. for trump it's a very good place to be. so republicans may be thinking my base isn't calling for me to oppose this susan collins has said she had previously have spoken against the national emergency declaration. and it's pretty long, the list goes on and on. will they now though -- >> pat: but that was then. >> will they now that it's been declared, stand up to the president? >> to be determined. we've seen deeply schedule of
prej tension who presents himself as an institutionalist, someone who fights for congressional power with respect to the executive power turned around and said he endorsed this. >> so my suspicion is that the number will not be there to jove turn the president's declaration. >> i lo and the question becomes what did do you after that? i did. >> joe, i need to ask a question because i know -- go ahead, i'm sorry. >> no, no. >> i need to ask a question because you know and i know that trump watches the show so he's probably watching right now. i always thought he was a smart guy but he's kind of a moron here. maybe i missed the last
election. the last election, which was the of if i'm dopt, and although i'm on the other side, hate to see such stupidity. the democrats are handing you a within in why are you being so stupid on. rpt. >> i'm confused. were you talking to donald or talking to me there? >> he can't talk back. now you're going to talk to both of us. >> you know, the thing is, you
know, drop f it never hurts to have any. in in. >> his poll numbers go up after eve eve every. they had a bad week and the new deal and several other things as well. but your big are point is taken. this is a 33% issue. this is an issue that he focused on. and the biggest electoral defeat in terms of vote count in the history of our constitutional republic. so, again, the underlying
mystery of donald and his presidency and me is this -- the narrow casting makes your sense. it's never made any sense. his supporters are with him nowhere he could have gone independents, and picked up a lot of other people. i will never&why he runs towards 33 thrs instead of 50%. and right now he can say organizationy, if you're in the l low and it's what i at that nam you lot unless -- unless he's
i'd add one more thought to that. not only has he not reached out to broadier his base, as you say, he is the only press had the support. and can you win a second term if enough neff po stwrchl and as we all know, the lek tras expands out during the presidential years. and so in midterms voters are always older, they're always more conservative and republicans get tutsily swm. got shellacked in 2018. so this strategy makes even less
sense in tv 20s. susan del percio, could you ask donnie if it's okay that you have speak now? >> of course, joe, you never interrupt anybody. >> but it is his show. >> i'm sorry, susan. i apologize. >> there's a requested. >> here donald trump is focusing on the wall nonstop. it was such losing issue for him in the 2018 races. races that really all favored republicans. he's taking this into a general election and it's just a losing p prp. >> there is one other thing i think is worth noting, even when
we talk about the executive vote in an emergency, there is going to be testimony by michael cohen next week. there's also going to be a mueller report coming out most lk lie innin 7innin be aring north carolina officials have entered a new election after being presented with enough evidence to prove attempted voter fraud. tempted voter fraud. >> the absolute mess with the saab sentee ballots, the illegal activities that have occurred
there in the election office itself and with the people involved in the absentee ballots. i believe the number probably is sufficient in and of itself to call for a new election but it certainly. >> the unanimous ruling by the five i many republican mark harris previously attempted to have the results certified but yesterday he graetd during his testimony that a new election is necessary. >> through the testimony i've listened to over the past three days, i believe a new election should be called. it's become clear to me that the public' confidence in the ninth district seat general election has been undermined to an, a.
it's not actually the person who signed it. so this strategy of harvesting up these ballots, we'll take care of it for you. it was illegal. and there was testimony given to the committee where he said he tried to warn his father over the course of years that the strategist of was doing things that isn't seem right. the patterns of absentee ballots, something seems fibbing here. and the father thought i'm sure the strategy is doing the case. >> s a taking a brac and coming
federals to we'll get the latest from the presidential campaign trail. and what we can expect from michael cohen's testimony next week. and join us, joe's plabd it play yeks wednesday you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. "morning joe." we'll be right back. s protectio, i can't tell you anything about myself. but believe me... i'm not your average consumer. that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and as a man... uh... or a woman... with very specific needs that i can't tell you about- say cheese. mr. landry? oh no. hi mr. landry! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. okay. a federal judge in miami has ruled that a team of federal prosecutors led by alex acosta, now secretary of labor for president trump broke the law by hiding a plea agreement for more than 30 underage victims who accused billionaire hedge fund
manager jeffrey epstein of sexual abuse. acosta, who was the u.s. attorney for the southern district of florida in 2007 declined to prosecute epstein, allowing him to plead guilty in state court to two prostitution charges and serve 13 months in county jail. thursday's ruling said acosta ruling violated the rights of the girls who were mostly 13 and 16 years old at the time, stripping them of their right to object and misleading them thinking federal prosecution is even after the go the deal received were new deeggs tension. and a series of vettive articles by the "miami herald" julie
brown, and speaking for acosta, a labor department spokesman said the decisions were approved by the justice department and followed procedures. joining us now the investigative reporter who broke open the story, the "miami herald" julie brown and danny cevallos is back with us as well as. julie, as it continues, ch are the questions that still remain in your mind given all the work you have done? my questions are who are some of the other men who have joined epstein in this scheme and participated in the abuse of minors, the rape of minors? >> and also, who were the people that helped him with his sex trafficking operation. it's clear he had a lot of
people working for him that helped facilitate this operation. there's evidence this this happened in other -- in new york, in new mexico and possibly overseas as well. so there are a lot of questions. >> but how is it that a case can end up this way, that moves like this can be made or any warning signs ringing in your head about trump hiring alex acosta to be a cabinet secretary. >> well, i think that unfortunately, i think that, you know, before the me-too movement and certainly this was over a decade ago, there were a lot of people involved in this case, both men and women, who they came from poor families more i
think they thought this was just going to be a throw away case. certainly i don't think they realized it would get to this point and become the source of a scandal essentially. >> so, julie, obviously epstein ran in powerful circles. there has been talk for many that a lot of powerful men would fly with him too for these young girls, for these young minors, who say they were raped by older, powerful, wealthy, well connectedmen. does yesterday's development mean there's a possibility of new trials, if not against epstein, at least possibly against some of these other men
who raped these young girls? >> well, it's an interesting question and i'm sure it's one that the lawyers and legal minds that they consult with are going to have to consider because the judge's decision yesterday, remember he only ruled that the prosecutors violated the crime victims rights act. he didn't really outline a remedy. what will be interesting in the next 15 days they have to confer with the government and come up with a resolution to this taste. one of the things they could ask for it s that they low up they could also open another case inner in jurisdiction, which would mean that they could interview possible witness it's
hard to say whether all these men who were involved in this and women will ever really be exposed. certainly there are people that know who was involved. and, you know, there were a lot of people that were in epstein owes circle. academics. it wasn't wasn't just all politicians, it was being a democks hey, julie, it's willie. good to you have on again this morning. so our viewers understand how we got to this investigative investigation, senator ben sasse read your reporting, was shocked by it and pushed and pushed and pushed and got the department of justice to now vet alex acosta's role in this case. so your reporting led to where we are today.
for sure who aren't deeply familiar with this story, alexa accost in a why was that a suspicious deal as you investigated it? >> well, if you read the judge's opinion, if a judge really went out of his way to detail the correspondent, the letters and e-mails that were being passed back and forth between epstein's attorneys that they were working in conjunction with epstein's attorneys to keep this quiet. >> shane: they were we don't want the public to know this.
we'd like to do this in another jurisdiction so that no one finds out about it. i mean, if everything that prosecutors were doing was above board, then why did they try to keep it secret? i mean, that's one thing that alex acosta -- no one has really answered. they say, well, this was approved at all levels of the justice department. if that's true, why did they keep is secret? >> and what would be alex a acosta's incentive to do this? what was in it for him? why would he behave this way as a u.s. attorney? >> el with, think about it, he is the labor secretary. he's a cabinet woke only sansed after this happened. despite there were stories about this over the years, but they still managed to advance in
their career. how does someone you know, it always struck me, i would sit on the set, i'm not from manhattan, not a creature of manhattan obviously but i would sit on the set and talk about this yef -- and i always ask the same thing, why is there no justice here? so again, for people that aren't from manhattan that, don't know who this guy is, talk about the rich and powerful people that
were always swirling around him. >> i mentioned last week on the show an experience i had with him where he tried to kind of suck me into that world and in 30 seconds i could see there was something very, very wrong here. and, julie, i don't know if you're ever going to go there, but to really dig into the highest of the high and not just one men in this who had friendships with him and that -- i don't know where that story goes. it's not just one. the highest level that you could go to had genuine friendships with this man. you know where i'm going with this and it n's not one, it's t. have you peabody into that? >> yeah, me and a lot of other journalists have tried to go there and look in. i certainly think there's more
that could be yield wd now with the high profile of the case. the key i mean, o he he had people who worked with him and it's been years now and you have to hope that maybe somebody comes forward, someone has a conscience and says, look, i was involved with this, i know what he did and here's how it happened and here's who was involved. really, you need people on inside, whether it's victims or people who work for him come forward. a will the of people are afraid. >> so, danny, that is the remarkable thing about this story. a the. >> and the past, possibly present, involved in this case. the question is how does it get opened back up so even if
epstein himself can't be tried again or -- for other things because of his plea deal, these other people who -- these other powerful men who may have committed rape against young 14 to 15-year-old girls, how does a case get opened back up? how does that part of the plea deal get opened. >> cvra, the crimes victim act, allows for a nonprosecution agreement to be reopened, to be blown up. the law applies not just after someone is prosecuted but in the preprosecution stage, when it is merely being investigated. tease when this nonprosecutor was arrive at that potentially
gives the judge the base to devolve if this agreement is dissolved, there are other u.s. attorneys in other jurisdictions that may have a track on epstein. for example, in the u.s. virgin islands where i practice, jeff riff etchste-- jeffrey epstein there. it's the court giving the government the opportunity to come back and say you know what, maybe this agreement should be dissolved, but if they don't, the law appears clear. the course has the power to break apart that agreement, if it sees fit. >> so, julie, kind of a basic
question but what are the locations where these alleged rapes took place? palm beach and also the island that he owns? are there any other locations? >> am i correct in those? >> well, one of his victims, virginia roberts, had been involved in litigation. and as part of that civil litigation, she had offered her statement about what happened to her. and she said that of course she was recruited in palm beach but she then became part of his sort of his life in that she traveled with him. so she said that she was present and involved in sex activities on his island, u.s. virgin islands, in new york, in new mexico where he owns a ranch and in europe when she traveled with him to paris and to london, that
these were activities -- and she was involved in it herself. she helped him find girls. >> so is it impossible at this point to get the logs of who traveled with him on his private jet to his island, for example? >> well, some of those logs are -- have been released as part of this case. i've looked at those logs. the problem with the logs is these are his pilots putting the names of people on the plane and sometimes they're just listed by two females or a.l. and g.m., they're just listing them by initials. so even the logs are suspect because, i mean, we don't know whether they're accurate or not and who are these people when they say there were two females. they don't list their names you don't know if there --
>> you know, there are a lot of names. it's very wealthy people, socialites. even their families and their kids. i'm sure that they weren't all sex flights. you know, he was very involved in charitable -- he has donated millions of dollars to scientific and charitable foundations. and of course there are a lot of people that wanted that money. and they courted him, he courted them to be in these circles. i mean, harvard university and a lot of their scientists were very involved with epstein because he donated millions to the university for research. >> fascinating. julie brown, thank you so much. we note that you just received a prestigious george polk award for your work on this story. so congratulations. you're not done yet but thank you.
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. >> sam stein has a new piece in the daily beast. trump promises no stolen data. >> we were talking about what the problems were in 2016 campaign. and i remember going through the 2018 cycle and the two campaign committees tried to find a pact to not use that data if it happened in 2018 and they couldn't come to an agreement so the question became what would happen in 2020? and the first instinct was well, let's see if every democratic candidate would come to some sort of pledge to not knowingly
use anything hacked online against their opoens. and all the democrats said we'll have to ask the republicans too. and trump said he would not use posts by liberal media. >> so if wikileaks digs into someone's e-mail and publishes, they're on record saying they will not knowingly use published hacked material against their opponents. now, the tricky part which prohibited a pact from being formed in 2018 is what happens if a member of the media writes up something like this? a hacked document becomes a front page story the the "new york times," can the candidate realistically avoid talking about it. that's where the rubber hits the road. >> we turn now to developments oversees particularly in syria.
a small piece keeping group of about 200 will remain there for a period of time. the white house said it would all put 2,000 troops from that war torn country would be pulled. the suffering there is far from over. the war there has created millions of refugees, a reality brought to the big screen in the oscar nominated film "capernum." we sat down with the film director. >> it is a harrowing tale of suffering and perseverance. the story of a young child on the streets of beirut con fronting issues well beyond his years. the story traces the life of
zane who's suing his parents for bringing him into this chaotic world and leaving him to fend for himself and like the character he prortrays the lead actor is a syrian refugee. >> i think because his life parallels the karkts's life he has the eyes of someone so much older. >> he looked like he was 7 or 8 because of mall nutrition. he's not like a child nianymore. when you have to survive such hard situations, and you can see it in his eyes. his eyes have been a witness to so much hardship. >> this is what this film is about, a child being born into a world that is harsh and having absolutely no choice in thand a children are going through that right now. >> we need to acknowledge that. we need to start talking about the the problem. we need to find alternative systems, we need to find alternative societies that are able to embrace these problems
and know how to deal with them in a different way. and we're not talking about only thousands of children. we're talking about millions of children across the world who are living in those very deprived situations. >> tell me about the decision to use nonactors, people whose lives really paralleled what was happening in the film. >> it was very important to work with people who are living in that situation. i didn't ask them to act in the film. i just asked them to be or to react to certain situations that they know. >> tell me how it feels to be one of the only female film makers represented at this year's oscars. >> i was really surprised to see that but at the same time i'm hoping that i will be representing you know, some of those women the best way i can. >> are you hopeful there can be change? >> i hope. i hope it's not going to stop at the frontiers of just being another film. i truly believe that cinema can actually engage in conversation
and truly change things and i'm hoping we will be able to achieve that. >> all right. the oscars are this sunday. up next, still not a word from the president, justice department or top republicans in congress about the white nationalist who plotted a mass attack to kill the president's critics. plus, attorney general william barr in the spotlight as we await the end of bob mueller's russia investigation. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ng joe" is back in a moment
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summit. michael cohen will be testifying to three congressional committees. the vice president will also be abroad and the special counsel could wrap up all next week. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february 22nd, along with joe, willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, republican strat jieg and associate editor of the "washington post" and an msnbc commit cal analyst eugene robinson and danny is back with us this morning. good to have you all on board on this friday morning. so the coast guard lieutenant accused of plotting to carry out a mass terror attack here in the united states has been ordered to remain behind bars.
a judge yesterday ordered that 49-year-old christopher paul be held without bail for at least two more weeks to allow prosecutors to build their case against him. he was arrested last week on drug and gun charges. on tuesday, prosecutors filed papers alleging he had been gathering a stock pile of weapons and ammo with plans to launch a widespread attack on prominent democratic lawmakers and several high profile journalists. prosecutors say that the charges against him so far are just the tip of the iceberg. in addition to the evidence found in his home, they cite his alleged google searches on phrases including what if trump were legally impeached, civil war if trump impeached and best place in d.c. to see congress people. his lawyer is pushing for his client's release arguing the case against him is thin saying perceived danger has to be based
on facts, not innuendo. the president as usual took to twitter several times yesterday covering a variety of topics. high speed data networks, the wall, of course. he weighed in on the jussie smollett saga. he endorsed john cornyn. he tweeted about black history month, but when it came to arguably the biggest threat against both politicians and journalists this country has ever seen, he remained silent. but trump is not alone. even the justice department which normally does not shy away from publicizing alleged terrorism plot it uncovers, it hasn't said a word outside of court filings. f as matt miller points out neither the white house nor the doj has addressed this terror plot publicly. >> listen, i mean, look at this list. mike barnicle, there's a terror
plot that was seeking to kill the third ranking elected official in america, nancy pelosi and the top democrat in the house of representatives, the top democratic leader in the senate, the last democratic vice presidential candidate, the most prominent members of the current democratic field who are planning to run in 2020 to challenge donald trump in a democratic election, kamala harris, elizabeth warren, cory booker and even beto o'rourke. i guess beto o'rourke was put on this trump supporters kill list bah he's even thinking about running against donald trump. and a democratic senator richard blumenthal who is investigating donald trump. national journalists who reported on donald trump and
yes, many of his misdeeds and mike, you can add to donald trump's list of misdeeds, deafening silence while a sweeping plot to destroy the congressional democratic leadership and to wipe clean the democratic field of candidates who are seeking to run in a democratic election against donald trump next year are all on this plot by this coast guard officer who has been collecting guns and planning this massive attack. not a single word from the president of the united states and mike, i guess we should ask meacham but if this is not the greatest plot uncovered against the government of the united
states since the night abraham lincoln was assassinated and there was a plot to kill a few of his cabinet members, i'd like to hear more significant plot, but again, not a word from the president, that silence is not only deafening, it is -- it is -- it just speaks volumes. >> and it's understandunderstan. this plot is not only nefarious, it's incredible in its depth, all the names that you have just indicated exist, all the planning exists, the use of the coast guard computer at work is the tipoff on this, but the language that is employed by the president of the united states in tweet after tweet after tweet, the language of division that engenders a lot of the things in this country that triggers diseased minds, clearly this man has a diseased mind is
all right there. traceable back to its root, a lot of it comes from the president's tweets and the way the president behaves himself. so it's understandable that this is met with silence from the white house. what is not understandable is the attitude or the silence thus far of the justice department, the jus dtice department is in pursuit of people who break the law. to not hear from the justice department is kind of astound g astounding. >> by the way, willie, no condemnation from nancy pelosi's counter part in the house of representatives, kevin mccarthy, not a word from chuck schumer's counter part in the united states senate that i've heard. mitch mcconnell, not a word from republicans attacking this plot to kill democrats and journalists and again, as mike pointed out, nothing from the justice department. not a single word. this is -- you know, and again,
this is more of the same. we saw the pipe bomber who again targeted all of trump's political opponents. this is actually -- this is something that i guess since he's not saying anything about it, this is something that donald trump does not bant to discourage. >> as you say, the threats here and we went go through all of them have. >> reporter: specific including searching for where people live and zooming in on their houses and figuring out where people will be when. this guy had certain people in mind. president trump has been very quick to praise law enforcement and rightly so when they stop an attack like this. you have the fbi working on this, the coast guard investigated service working on this. there's no really good explanation for why he hasn't said a word about it or why mitch mcconnell and others haven't said a word about it and i'm curious when you have a self-described white nationalist
who's talked about wanting to start a race war, is there a chance this guy could be let out on bond? >> it is a possibility and the reason is -- from what i can tell, this is not what we call a presumption case. there are a certain set of cases from which the normal presumption that a defendant should be released pending trial doesn't apply and those are usually more serious gun and drug cases. it's a close call, but this doesn't appear to fit within the category of those cases where there's a presumption that he should be held pending trial. but as pros tors say, you might see additional charges that would bolster their case. the bail reform act requires a defendant to be released unless there is no set of conditions that will either ensure his presence at trial or assure the safety of the community and obviously here, the safe tiff of the community is a huge, huge concern.
but there is a chance with just the pending charges as they stand that this defendant could be released. amazing as it sounds. >> gene robinson, also amazing again, a plot to decapitate the democratic party and its leadership and not a word from a single republican on capitol hill publicly. >> it's astounding and just do the simple thought experiment. imagine if this guy were muslim and imagine what we would be hearing from the republicans on the hill, from president trump who would be, you know, his thumbs would be sore from the -- from all the tweets. we would be hearing from the justice department, there would be just a huge clam moor. imagine immigrants from the middle eastern country, the illegal immigrant had been found with that weaponry and that
evidence of plotting in his -- in his possession. it would be a huge deal for this administration and -- and for the -- for everyone, really, and as far as donald trump is concerned this doesn't seem to have happened. or it happened and he's -- he doesn't think it's worthy of note or comment much less condemnation. it's just astounding. >> coming up, last week a federal judge urged roger stone to zip it. he didn't. >> no, he didn't. >> and instead targeted the judge herself in a social media post. well, she just hauled him back into court and it was a surreal scene. we'll get to that straight ahead, but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> we saw snow flakes yesterday at the rose bowl in pasadena. it snowed in scottsdale.
this is in los angeles. it was down to about 800 feet elevation. extremely rare for areas around l.a. to see snow flakes. so what we're going to deal with today is we have the flood threat in the southeast. severe weather thread tomorrow and still dealing with a huge snow effort in areas of arizona. high risk of flash flooding throughout areas of northern mississippi, eastern arkansas and a lot of rivers are already extraordinarily high and another 2 to 4 inches today and here's our severe weather threat. we may get a few tornados tomorrow in areas. we've got to flooding threat and tornado threat and arizona, the snow is epic right now. flag staff has reported 3 feet of snow in the last 24 hours. that's in one day. pretty crazy stuff. and then this weekend, watch out, blizzard conditions coming from nebraska, mississippi and
areas of northern iowa. quite the weekend for the weather pattern. we'll be right back with more here on "morning joe." ♪ don't fence me in. ♪ let me be by myself ♪ in the evenin' breeze, ♪ listen to the murmur of the tall concrete, ♪ ♪ send me off forever, but i ask you please ♪ ♪ don't fence me in. special offers available at your local mini dealer. in them therr hills on your guarantevacation.find gold but we can guarantee the best price on this rental cabin. or any accomodation from hotels to yurts.
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check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. every year, you and i lovz to have a beer or two, smoke a cigarette. >> this is not going to end well. >> and then we power walk through the new york marathon. and we like it because why do we like it? because you can continue smoking, while you're walking. right? >> well, it's banned now but we were grandfathered in since we started so long ago. but go ahead. smoke walking. >> exactly. but as fast as we walked and i remember you were setting a
torrid pace, i've never seen anybody walk as fast as roger stone. roger stone, boom, the windup was big but it's worth it. i've never seen anybody not even you in the new york city marathon walk as quickly through reporters as roger stone did yesterday. why is that, willie? >> i didn't see the nixon pose when he came out of the courthouse. a little bit different posture for roger stone because the federal judge overseeing his trial has tightened the gag order in his case after telling him he's out of warnings suggesting potential jail time for any future violations. he appeared in a courtroom yesterday to face judge jackson. an image was posted to stone's instagram account monday showing the judge's face next to what appeared to be cross hairs. the former advisor to president
trump called the post a momentary lapse of judgment before saying the photo cuz selected by someone who works for him which he estimated was about five or six people. he also argued he didn't think the image contained cross hairs. judge jackson said stone quote, couldn't keep his story straight on the stand and that his apology rings hollow. she added that the publicity of the trial cannot possibly subside if the defendant is out there fanning the flames stressing today, i gave you a second chance. under the judge's new gag order stone may not speak publicly about the investigation, his trial or anyone taking part in either. she's still allowing him to raise funds for his legal defense and to maintain his innocence publicly. and we've been covering this case closely and she was outside the courtroom yesterday. so how did we get to this point? we know that he made the instagram post, he said he
didn't think it was cross hairs, he blamed it on somebody on his staff but he's also out at gun ranges with conspiracy theorists and doing things like that. is this just arrogance on his part? >> you see every single day there's been something on his social media or on into wars. he's been so out there. he's invoked the quote unquote deep state on almost a daily basis. he's portraying himself as a victim and mueller as a hit man and so on monday when we all saw the judge's picture, we thought maybe he went a little too far but it wasn't surprising that the next day she called this hearing for yesterday. it moved really quickly and i have to say that stone and his inner circle were nervous. they thought he might go to jail yesterday and so hence that very quick walk in there and when he walked out he certainly -- he doesn't want to go to jail, clearly because he just high
tailed it right back down to south florida. i think there's a lot of relief going on for him and his circle right there. >> that swagger was gone yesterday. >> were you surprised that judge didn't send roger stone to jail? what typically happens when you threaten the judge? >> no, i wasn't surprised because the gag order in this case was separate from the pretrial release conditions but the judge concluded that it is possible that further comments by judge could affect the safety of the community and that's the standard. he violates his pretrial release if something happens that threatens the safety of the community. so even though the judge found that he may have violated the gag order and that he wasn't credible on the stand, it was a fair result under the law to give him one more chance. she could have sent him to jail pending his trial. that was certainly an option if she found he violated his pretrial release conditions but
in this case, because it was a close call between whether or not this was a true threat or whether or not this was just a ill advised photograph, that plus stone's apology, which was really kind of hit or miss and the judge acknowledged that, she gave him one more chance. >> coming up on "morning joe," it's one of the stories the presidents did find worthy of issuing a tweet to yesterday. the the latest on the case of actor jussie smollett next on "morning joe." r jussie smollett "morning joe." ♪ feeling unsure? what if you had some help?
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the head of the chicago police department is accusing actor jussie smollett of staging an attack on himself because he was unhappy with his salary on the show "empire." smollett appeared before a judge after being charged with a felony for filing a false police report. he appeared visibly frustrated and rolled his eyes during the bond hearing. according to the chicago police superintendent, eddie johnson, smollett sent himself a threatening letter but when that did not get attention he paid two brothers $3,500 by check
apparently to orchestrate the attack. the brothers wore gloves and punched smollett a little bit but they believe the scratches and bruises on his face were most likely self-inflicted. detectives also believes smollett wanted the incident to be captured on surveillance camera but did not realize the closest camera was facing the wrong direction. >> absolute justice would be an apology to this city that he smeared. admitting what he did, and then be man enough to offer what he should offer up in terms of all the resources that were put into this. you all gave this a lot more attention than it probably deserves so when you get the opportunity, the shooting victims and families in this city that are victims of those crimes, give them the same
amount of attention. >> smollett's legal team released a statement saying in part that the court system had trampled the presumption of innocence and a law enforcement spectacle that has no place in the american legal system. >> my, god. >> what a mess. >> really. >> the presumption of guilt against imaginary white attackers wearing maga hats is really -- >> we still don't know, i guess. >> really what was so outrageous and once again, mob rule on twitter prevails. once again, everybody's rushing out, whether it was this or whatever the heck happened in that kentucky case or whether it was, you know, the kavanaugh stories coming out one after another and by the end, it was rape rooms and spiked punch lines and it just -- more bizarre. everybody on twitter like you
sa said just jumping to conclusions instead of waiting back for the facts. >> a person who is allegedly to blame here is jussie smollett who allegedly made up this -- this story, and wasted, you know, a thousand hours of chicago police time, valuable police time in a city with a high murder rate where they need the police resources to point elsewhere. just a ridiculous story from the beginning it sounded like, you know, paid from a rejected screen play. a really bad screen play. all the details that he put in it. and you know, some people were frankly gullible and -- and foolish to sort of jump out, you call it a modern day lynching without really examining the
story and waiting. you know, it was recorded because it was a well known person who claimed to have been assaulted and police initially as they had to took it seriously. but then obviously when police, you know, decided that this was not real, they really went out to document what they alleged was this fraud and if you listen to that press conference yesterday, my goodness, the amount of evidence that they have documentary evidence, video evidence, everything, the check, everything they -- they have about him and the brothers who allegedly committed the fake assault. it's just astounding. coming up on "morning joe," it's become a bit of a ritual for democratic presidential candidates. the so called soul food summit
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>> today we thank god for all of the blessings the afterry can american community continues to give our nation and we pledge our resolve to expand opportunity for americans of every race, religion, color and creed. >> president trump in his remarks at yesterday's white house reception honoring black history month. he steered clear of controversial topics involving virginia governor and the latest revelations regarding actor jussie smollett. instead boasting of a record low poverty rates among african americans and pointed to last year's passage of criminal justice reform. joining us now, host of msnbc's
politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharp ton and holly harris, we'll start with you. yesterday you hosted california senator and 2020 presidential candidate kamala harris for lunch and you talked about criminal justice reform. tell us about that conversation. >> well, i thought it was a very fruitful conversation. the fact is that senator harris was a district attorney in san francisco as well as the state attorney general in california, so she's had to deal with this balance of fighting crime, something that all communities want and particularly african american communities that have had their -- in my opinion, unfair high rate of crime but at the same time not being subjected to unfair law
enforcement and she was very clear on her positions there. she was very clear that this will be a major part of her campaign. we talked about voting rights where she has submitted a bill to the senate since we have seen a set back by the supreme court and the voting rights act section 5, that congress has done nothing. she was committed to that and i was also very -- very impressed with her conversation around how we get to economic justice in terms of health care for people, but at the same time making sure that we sustain their livelihood. so you know, i -- i took senator barack obama there in '07. senator bernie sanders went during the last cycle. the morning after new hampshire, he did the breakfast with me at sylvia's so this is the third cycle at presidentials that it ends up now like a tradition but i was impressed, mika, that she
received the same amount of excitement that they did. and people were outside screaming her name, and she was very well received and she ate the same kind of meal that obama did. i maintained my diet. >> she had the waffles what did you go with? >> i only eat -- i do not eat meat and i only had whole wheat toast that i really didn't even touch. >> importantly the hot sauce is on the table. senator harris is taking heat from progressives for her record -- >> and conservatives. >> sure, for her track record as attorney general and as a district attorney in san francisco being too tough on some minor crimes, putting people away for marijuana possession, things like that. what's your view of that? this is the realm you work in. >> we talked about that the last time i was on the show. are we leaving room for the still awakening among the woke?
most of this country has done a 180 on criminal justice reform. joe biden, bernie sanders, these two individuals voted for the 94 crime bill that helped to explode the prison population, what's worse helped to explode the state prison population so the fact that she's evolved on these issues shouldn't be as big a deal as some people are making it and i've had a very similar experience with senator harris to the reverend's, we had senator harris at our women unshackled conference about two years ago and she was mobbed by young women at that conference. it took her staff 45 minutes to go 20 feet and it showed me back then, she's going to be a contender. >> so you don't have some of the concerns that we've heard publicly anymore. you feel like she has evolved from her time as attorney general? >> what's the one policy that you think a candidate can embrace that would demonstrate
his or her commitment to justice reform. >> sentence and reform. >> i think they're interrelated but i also think that following holly's point that if we forgave hillary clinton for '94 crime bill which i marched against the clintons on even though i'm a democrat. if we forgive biden and bernie sanders, do we have a different bar for a black woman? >> amen. >> but did we forgive hillary clinton? i don't know if we did. >> but i think if you look at the vote in the black community she got overwhelming votes over sanders in the primaries and he got a pass from progressives on that. so what i'm saying is if we're going to have an evolving standard and we should because we've all grown, i mean, i've grown, holly's grown, willie's grown. i mean, look at danny.
danny's not grown into a guru and on his way to legend. so if you're going to give people room, you've got to give her the same room. those of us that -- some didn't give anybody room but i'm seeing some that are very selective and i'm not going to accept the double standard. >> that said though, there has tab tr to be an acknowledgement that the policies that she was supporting back when she was attorney general of california were wrong and we do want to hear that. >> i want to shift gears. a lot about jussie smollett. we talked earlier about the media's rush to judge in all cases. i want your thoughts. obviously you you spoke when this first happened. obviously the story has changed. where are you coming out on our overzealousness to convict and prosecute before due process? >> well, i don't know that i agree. i think that the media was given a story about someone who was a star and all of us reacted and said that if this is true --
>> did we all say that? >> well, my statement was if -- as reported. now, again, nobody called for a conviction because we didn't know who we were talking about. there was not that we said go get this person because we never found them. then jussie said there were no people with the maga hats so that was taken off the table but president trump said it was horrible. i think we had a responsibility to address the issue at hand. now, do we go too far? do we look at a guy that is a star and give him more than we would a regular person that suffers in chicago from a murder? i think there's legitimacy there, but overall i think that we just talked about evolving, we've got to learn to deal with things in a way that if he's wrong, he has to be condemned and must be held accountable just like if in fact, what he said happened to be true or proven to be true, we would rally there. we have a responsibility to have a moral consistency and our
language, one of the things i've had to deal with 30 years ago coming forward is that you can't even give the appearance that you're playing one side against the other. you've got to have the language of what you're really trying to say and that's the language of you want justice no matter who it hurts and no matter who comes short. they've got to reach that standard. otherwise you lose the moral authority of what you're fighting for. >> what do you take out of this whole jussie smollett. harris said it was a modern day lynching and she came out yesterday saying she was disappointed to hear it was allegedly a hoax. how do we get better from here? >> it's incredibly tragic because we are undermining something that is very serious in this country and that's hate crimes, but listen, this is a guy who was making $65,000 an episode, living a pretty successful and privileged life. this is really tragic in so many
respects and i hope and what you all talk about a lot on this show is not rushing to judgment. you talked about it during kavanaugh and i think that that's something that we all have to learn. and instead of, you know, rushing to twitter which we're all very quick to do these days because we all want to be first, i think let's just be more thoughtful about our responses. >> good advice. >> valuing the truth which is very challenged as it is during these times. as we continue to celebrate black history month, reverend al, you wanted to highlight civil rights leader ruston who is credited with organizing the 1963 march on washington. tell us about his legacy. >> he was one of the pioneering civil rights leaders, activists in the 20th century. he also was a labor leader and he was the technician that went to montgomery when martin luther
king and rosa parks started the boycott. he helped to strategize and really set up the march on washington of '63 where dr. king made his famous "i have a dream" speech. he was shunned and put in the background because he was gay at a time when many of the civil rights leaders were homophobic. i got to know him when i was a teenager. i was too young for the march on washington and he gave me a lot of points. he gave me the check that started the national youth movement and i remember how even then people were saying well, you know, buyout is brilliant but -- and i think that he broke the barrier of a lot of the civil rights establishment having to deal with the fact that you have to deal with lbgtq rights as well as civil rights rights and we would have not have had a movement had it not
been for rustin. so i salute him for that. >> holly harris, thank you so much for being on the show with us this morning. >> is it even possible to talk politics these days with someone you disagree with? our next guests offer a guide to grace filled political kofr conversations with their new book "i think you're wrong but i'm listening." we'll listen to their much needed advice next on "morning joe." joe. every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. the future only happens at booking.com, we can't guarantee you'll good at that water jet thingy...
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got congressional appearance has been added to michael cohen's appearance next week. he will now testify about the president behind closed doors to the senate intelligence committee on tuesday. he was already set to testify publicly before the house oversight committee on wednesday and privately to the house intelligence committee thursday. he was spotted on the hill yesterday but didn't say a word about why he was there. reporters followed him into the offices of the senate intelligence committee, cohen's media advisor said cohen met only with his own legal team to review documents that could not leave the classified committee area. and it was a mystery back in may of last year, how michael avenatti obtained michael cohen's bank records. federal prosecutors say they've now figured it out. irs investigator has been charged with searching for and
leaking comfort confidential suspicious activity reports. reports filed by banks when they note potentially suspicious transactions. he verbally admitted the inform aft avenatti when he was confronted by federal agents. the shell company cohen created to pay off stormy daniels. cohen claims at the direction of donald trump. wow. you know, i feel like this is actually all going to come back at some point to these payments, circle back. am i wrong? what's your insight as to cohen's mindset leading up to this testimony he is going to be giving next week? >> he was in d.c. yesterday to go over some documents that are classified and couldn't leave where they were. michael is looking forward to it, to have his, for lack of a
better word, day in court. if you know michael personally, he is a real puncher. he hasn't been able to punch back. he is taking responsibility. i think we are well aware of the payment issues. we are going to hear about a lot of things we have not been aware of as far as being by the president's side for ten years. obviously, the republicans are going to want to make it about michael cohen. the democrats will want to make it about donald trump. the country will see -- one thing about michael whether you like him, you don't like him, what you see is what you get. people will see a michael cohen they haven't seen before. it's must see tv. >> next week is going to be wild with cohen testifies, the president and vice-president out of the country the mueller report dropping. our next guests may be able to help us.
joining us are benl ath and sar. they are co-authors of "i think you are wrong but i'm listening." thanks for being here. >> thank you for having us. >> i want to lay out, you are friends. you do the podcast together. sara, you come from the left. is that fair to say? >> that's fair to say. >> beth, you from the right. >> yes. >> we have you seated backwards. the last couple of years before thanksgiving websites put our guides how to talk to your family. can you not get together with your family without having a fight over politics? there might be a deeper issue there. why did you sit down to write the book? what advice can you give to people? >> it's not a secret formula. we haven't tapped some sort of secret idea. we have a practice. we have gotten bad at it because we stopped doing it. we stopped practicing conflict and hard conversations to know that we can do it. we can prioritize the
relationship. the sun will come up the next day. we can try again. maybe we will get better at it. that's what we want to talk about is you have to keep trying. we have to keep trying so that we get better at having the difficult conversations. >> we have seen polls that say, i wouldn't let my daughter marry a republican. i wouldn't let my son marry a democrat. they just blow my mind that politics is so at the center of your life that your relationships are subservient to your politics. >> a lot of what we realized to talk with one another several times a week is that our politics are a vehicle to work out our values. what we counsel in the book and on our show is to explore your values so you are not trying to work your values out on who i affiliate with politically. we want people to strip away that team jersey of i'm a republican or democrat and get to what really matters to me and why does it matter. why am i reacting emotionally to the news every day? >> isn't one of the reasons -- i
guess either of you jump in. i think one of the struggles that i have is, it's not a conversation about left and right. no problems with democrats or republicans. i believe that a good conversation and the best thing for our country is a balance of power and opinions. what about when you are talking to somebody and they don't believe that donald trump lies? or they say, he is not lying, he is just saying what he thinks, he says what he -- he gets it. is that still a political conversation? >> i think it's not a political conversation anymore. this is criticism i get as a republican. that is about values. that's about our tendency to identify with a person instead of with a set of policies and values underneath those policies. for us, there are certain non-negotiables in every conversation. we are not going to indulge
falsehoods, racism, homophobia, anything like that. we have to kind of figure out what's animating people to get to that with them. you don't start off with, i'm going to throw you away because you believe donald trump. >> the title of your book -- what i learned, when you are on the show a lot of people come at you -- to answer your point, i thought with people, hey, i get why you voted for him initially. we had a bad candidate. you don't invalidate them. you can't say to somebody, you are an idiot, because then they have to defend lies. i find when i disarm people, then they go, yeah, he is lying. you can't tell them, you are dumb, you made a wrong purchase decision. you have to validate why they did it and then you can bring them along. >> i think before you get there, i think you also have to have the ability to say to people, you and i both know this is a falsehood. what in you makes you want to make it right?
donald trump is not the issue. you are the issue as to why you want to validate something that i know you really know better than. i think that's really the problem is if you really believe in something, you can talk to people you disagree with. if you gotta push people away, it's because urine secuyou ar y about what you believe in. >> i learned, i'm sorry, i don't see the truth in that. can you tell me why you feel that way? you can say that's non-negotiable but be curious and filled with grace for that person. the hardening is what's happened. >> you could rightly say, could you not, that i can't respect someone who supports a president who separates children from their families or someone who called for muslim bans to keep a billion people out of the country because of the god they worship? how do you respond to that? >> i think we say, i can't respect your support, not i can't respect you. we will not have relationships with each other. do we want to live in america
together or not? that's the question we circle around. so i can respect a person. i cannot respect that support. my respect for that person is the window that's going to get us to a deeper conversation about why they're supporting those things. >> as we get to that deeper conversation and that window, i think we have to understand those are the currents that are knocking at throwing into each other in this country. a lot is our internal fear, our internal insecurities. we have got to address that. the real reason why you are ignoring children being taken from their parents is you really are afraid of an invasion that's really not there. we have to address the underlying problems if we're going to get to common ground. >> are we talking on the steps of the washington memorial with somebody i never met or am i talking to my father? that's two different things. we don't apply the same rules across the board. when i talk to my father, i respect him and i say, i'm curious about why you feel that way even though i don't see the truth in that.
>> he is still your mother. >> he is still my father. >> voessocial media is vicious. they say things they would never say to your face. it's about making the other side not just wrong but evil. how do you combat that element? >> we talk a lot about making sure the way we engage politically is representative of our values not just the ultimate policies. on social media, when somebody comes at you really hard, i like to remind them -- i start, hi, nice to hear from you. >> i'm a person. >> i'm a person. remember that i'm a person. it really can bring the conversation back to a reasonable place. we may still disagree. just remember, this isn't some parallel universe. this is still me and you are still you. >> take a breath. we don't have to react immediately every single time. >> the title is "i think you're wrong but i'm listening." maybe it's i believe you're wrong. we are talking about basic proofs. are we allowed to have this
conversation around basic truths, or must we throw them all away is the question i leave everybody with as we go into the weekend. that's what we're arguing here. >> i think that it's -- we're not trying to come to an agreement. we can have an agreement about basic truths and still be curious about how that person got there. still be respectful of their right at the table. >> it's a long game. it's not one conversation. it's a long game. democracy is a shared responsibility for the long run. >> amen. >> it's the long game. it's the long game. the book is "i think you're wrong but i'm listening." out now. beth and sara, thank you both. have a wonderful weekend. as we close out the morning, you continue working. what do you have planned? >> i will hand multiple copies out of this. this sunday, my guest is emily blunt for our sunday sitdown.
her movie is nominated for four oscars. also starring in "a quiet place," which was a surprise hit blockbuster where she co-starred with her husband. emily blunt on sunday. that does it for us this morning. have a great weekend. my friend stefanie rule picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much. this morning, bracing for impact. president trump's team waiting for robert mueller's report to be revealed at any moment as a judge silences roger stone, banning him from talking publically about his case. robert mueller or the russia investigation. judge rules prosecutors broke the law by signing a secret plea deal and hiding it from the victims. one of the prosecutors now president trump's labor a