tv Weekends With Alex Witt MSNBC February 23, 2019 9:00am-11:00am PST
all right, that does it for a.m. joy today. we'll be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern where i will have my interview with kamala harris. now we'll throw it over to alex witt with the latest. >> i'm excited to have you back in the studio. you are coming back tomorrow, right? >> we, depending on the flights. i'm in snow country. we might be snowed in. we'll see. >> we have kamala harris with you tomorrow. thanks, joy. safe travels if you make it. good day from msnbc world headquarters in the east. judgment day delay, the mueller report not being released may have something to do with an event happening half a worldway. reverend al sharpton will tell me about his conversation with kamala harris plus the one photograph they could not stop looking at. >> we're trying to promote the
green new deal. >> there are reasons why i can't because there's no way to pay for it. >> yes, there is. >> money going to the military. >> this is an office visit that went viral. what to make of senator feinstein's talk with a group of school kids about a green new deal. plus, a former white house insider talks about what to expect this week from the man who at one time was close to donald trump. >> developing this hour, the political and legal worlds on alert, unclear what to expect from robert mueller after a highly anticipated sentencing memo for trump's former campaign chief was not released at a midnight deadline. the judge may be redabing some sensitive information. despite earlier reports, a senior justice department official tells nbc news we should not expect robert mueller's report to be handed over to attorney general bill barr this week. it is up to barr to decide how much he is release to congress.
this morning i asked representative john yarmuthing what house democrats are prepared to do to get the full mueller report? >> if it's not released in full, the house will subpoena that information. i'm positive. we have to defend our democracy and if the american people don't have full access to what went on, it's going to be harder to do. >> and new this hour, acting defense secretary is visiting the u.s. southern border. he is the official in charge of deciding how to divert $3.6 billion from military construction projects to build the president's border wall. house democrats will vote tuesday on a resolution to stop that declaration. the president says he'll eat troe toe it if it passes the senate. house speaker nancy pelosi also visited the border yesterday and renewed her call to stop the president's declaration. >> we will be fighting him on there usurping of power of violating the constitution of the united states in the congress, in the courts, and
with the american people. >> let's go to the white house and nbc's kelly o'donnell standing by with a good saturday morning to you. now it's afternoon. wham more did the president say about this? >> reporter: part of what is notable here is we have now gone into year three of the trump presidency and there's not been veto. in part that was because republicans were in charge of congress in the first couple years so the bills were things that were supported by congress and now we're at a point where democrats led by nancy pel at the on the house side will be able to bring forward legislation that didn't necessarily originate with the president's intentions. that means veto is on the horizon. the president was very clear about the specifics here, that because he has declared the national emergency and that he believes in that as a southern wall emergency as he has described it and argued it despite all certainly the controversy around this, and
democrats have a tool they can use. and that is a resolution to terminate the use of the national emergency. and that's where the president says he would use his first veto. also the president is putting pressure on republicans to stick with him on this issue because republicans will have to decide, as well where they stand if this is the appropriate use of this kind of executive power given the circumstance. the president was asked about this on friday and that's where we learned for the first time that he is planning to use the veto pen. here's the president. >> do you think that republicans will stick with you on the -- on your emergency declaration? >> i think they'll stick. serve knows we need border security. we feed a wall. it's a very bad subject for the democrats. >> will you veto that resolution that was introduced today that would block your national emergency if it passes. >> on the wall? >> yes. >> will i veto it? 100%. i don't think it survives veto. we have too many smart people that want border security.
>> and on the democrat side, more than 220 democrats have signed on as cosponsors of this resolution, and the main argument here in terms of the division between the two the branches of government is that it is under the constitution where the spending done by only congress for taxpayer money and in this instance, the president wants to divert money that was appropriated by congress for other purposes. and to use it as part of his package of border wall funding. and that's the argument democrats will make. the president saying he's got his own arguments. expect this to be high profile, tuesday is the day when the house will vote alex? >> thank you for the heads-up on that, kelly o'donnell from the white house. now to the race for 2020. all roads leading to iowa. senator kamala harris just rapped up a talk in des moines at the state capitol and von hilliard has been in iowa for about a month. let's get to what senator harris
is up to this weekend. >> reporter: good morning. there's been a lot of activity to warrant being here for a month. this is her first weekend here though as a presidential candidate. she appeared in that cnn town hall a couple weeks back. this is essentially her introduction to the state here at the iowa state capitol right now speaking to the asian and latino coalition. she has three other stops on the day, a soup supper with a democratic group and a town hall in ankeny and visiting the eastern part of the state tomorrow. cedar rapids were long time democrat and swung in favor of president trump. i want to play a little bit of sound. kamala harris a few moments ago. essentially he's laying out who she is as a candidate and on the policy front, what she believes. i want to play you sound what she said when it kim to the republican-passed tax law from
last year. >> for too long in our country, the rules have been written in a way that not been for the benefit of working people. vee have to uplift middle class working families in america. and we have to repeal, for example, this tax bill that was passed that benefits the top 1% and big corporations when we are looking at the fact that middle class and working families in america are suffering today and those people don't need the benefit. working people do. >> alex, there's another interesting question to her. there is a news outlet that referred to her as a moderate. the question from an iowan was how does she consider herself. she pushed back saying people that will try to push people in categories in this democratic field don't appreciate the complexities of issues and said there is no label she would consider herself by. it's an interesting conversation though, right? though, right?
there's also the colorado governor, john hickenlooper is here. julian castro is in town. when have you such a big field, how are people in new hampshire, americans supposed to really kind of differentiate one candidate between the other when it comes down to issues of whether do you support medicare for all which she says she does. that's the conversation we're going to be having in these months ahead of how are these candidates going to work to differentiate themselves? is it going to come down to share experience or will they get into the nitty gritty of policy where they can stand alone and be considered individuals in themselves. >> iowans will ask smart questions. thank you so much is, vaughn hillyard. joining me now anne gear rin from the "washington post" and john harwood, cnbc's edito editor-at-lar
editor-at-large. let's get to the new umass poll on the new hampshire democratic primary. at this point joe biden has 28% even though he hasn't announced yet. bernie sanders comes in second followed by cam ma lal harris. this poll was conducted before sanders announced he was running. how should democrats read these numbers, john? >> i think they should read these numbers as the field is wide open. joe biden is leading. he's the best known democrat. my own gut is that at the end of the day, he doesn't get into the race. i was struck by kamala harris being ahead of elizabeth warren from neighboring massachusetts in that poll. also remember, alex, this survey was a small sample, 337 vote ares, high margin of error over 6% in either direction. i'm not sure this is shows anything other than that there are a lot of candidates and a lot of people with a chance to win especially in a divided field. that's one thing to watch about bernie sanders. he may not be able to grow to 51% of democrats but the longer
the field is divided, the better it advantages somebody who can hold on to a base. >> give me the top reason why you think joe biden will not run. >> he has run twice on his own. neither worked out very well. he's in his mid-70s. that is -- that's old for this process. and i think that he's concerned about things like the exposure that his family would get. and various controversies related to his family. i just think when you think about democrats getting excited about a 2020 race and looking in particular at a new generation, i suspect that joe biden will weigh the costs and benefits and say what, are my odds of actually winning as opposed to ending my career in defeat and decide the cost benefit is not in his favor. >> anne, do you have a gut on joe biden and as we look back at the numbers, the reason he leads? is it because mostly it's name
recognition at this point in the game? >> yes, alex. polls at this point are measuring name i.d. more than anything else. i think it's instructive to look back at this point in the 2016 cycle. bernie sanders had not yet announced. hillary clinton are not yet formally announced although she was certainly more than 100% considered the candidate and the front-runner at that point. and roughly at this point, in 2015, 76% of americans said they had no idea who bernie sanders even was. and within months, you know, he had rocketed to a name i.d. that in polling terms is nearly universal which he has retained. joe biden has the advantage of having been in politics for so long that he accrued name i.d.
some people automatically know who he is and have some view of him. if you're a democrat in new hampshire, that view tends to be positive. i think that's what you're seeing there. as for my gut about joe biden, i don't know. but i did hear him last week at the munich security conference. he certainly sounded fired up to go after donald trump on foreign policy and on other areas where biden has a sphere of influence and can claim some difference among the very large democratic field. >> well, if he runs and you think he may although you didn't say that, one of you guys will be right. that's true. >> that's always good, yeah. >> let's move to the mueller report. john, you first. what do you think happened in terms of the timing of the release? is it just not ready to go? >> i think as our friend and colleague ben wittes has instructed us over and over, nobody outside the mueller team, the mueller investigation really knows what he has, what he's
going to do with it and when he's going to do it. there's a lot of speculation. we're reading smoke signals but we do not know almost everything robert mueller has done so far has surprised us both in the timing and in the particulars that he's laid out. so we're going to watch and see. the strongest indication we've had that the thing is coming to an end is rod rosenstein leaving and talking about his time at the justice department in the past tense. but until something is laid down at the justice department and then to the american people, i'm going to keep an open mind on when this is going to happen. >> okay. i want to get to something you wrote about anne which is kelly craft's nomination to be the u.n. ambassador. she was asked whether or not she believed in climate change. attack a listen. >> i believe there are signs on both sides that are accurate. both sides have their own results from their studies and i appreciate and i respect both
sides of the science. >> she clearly has diplomacy going for her there the skills of doing that. how do you see that playing out at her confirmation hearing? >> she has to be approved by senate republicans. >> right. so kelly craft, i don't expect to have any difficulty being confirmed for the u.n. ambassadorship. she's already been confirmed once, gone through the process to be ambassador to canada. that interview took place after the confirmation. she will surely be asked about it. but in terms of having enough votes, i think that's clear. and she's already done the harder higher hurdle which is getting past all of the vetting which is what tripped up the last president trump's last choice for this job, heather nauert. certainly the climate change interview is going to make a lot of the democrats have extra questions for her, however. >> yeah. let's get to climate change
here, specifically with regard to what's getting a lot of traction online. senator dianne feinstein having a discussion with teachers and students why she's not backing the green new deal. >> we're trying to promote the green new deal. >> well, there are reasons why i can't because there's no way to pay for it. >> yes, there is. >> money is going to the military. half of a lot of it is going to the military. >> well, i understand that. the united states government does a lot of things with the money. >> why does that stop you from voting yes? you can still vote yes, and it won't pass and we can draft a new plan. >> i may do that. we'll see. i don't know. it's not a good resolution. you know what's interesting about this group is i've been doing this for 30 years. i know what i'm doing. you come in here and you say it has to be my way or highway. i don't respond to that.
>> okay. now i want to be fair here. this entire clip was about 15 minutes long. what you just heard was 48 seconds long. but some are saying after listening to at least part of it she was smug and dismissive after seeing the entire video, more are saying suggesting she's being pragmatic. how do you see it, john? >> i see it as being ridiculously unfair to senator feinstein. and partly is the reason that the subject you were just discussing with anne. you look at kelly craft, the nominee to be u.n. ambassador on the republican side is somebody who is a big donor, married to a coal billionaire who is expressing uncertainty and quib indication about the merits of climate science. that is -- that is the obstacle to action on this issue, not an experienced united states senator dianne feinstein who
accurately was saying you cannot pass this green new deal. you can't pass the green new deal. when she says i know what i'm doing, she's right. she does know what she's doing. it's kind of a cheap trick to put kids out in front and challenge a grown-up to say why can't you support this good thing that we're for because you can't really argue back with them but dianne feinstein was right in this situation. the green new deal is an aspiration and doing something about climate change is a good thing, no question about that. but to skewer dianne feinstein for being realistic is kind of silly in my view. >> anne, i want to give you the last word on this. >> i think dianne feinstein is meeting those kids on their ground. she's saying all right. you are asking me good yes and i will try to answer them as a u.s. senator. she's not going to stop doing her job and you know all of a sudden go on and give them some giant lecture about climate change.
she's talking about what she can get passed and what she can't and why she might not vote the way they want her to. i thought it was an appropriate response. >> anne and john, you guys always give me appropriate responses. thank you. the headline reads speak trump may be committing obstruction of justice notice plain sight." the author of that article is joining me next. ain sight. the author of that article is joining me next. originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. if you want to know why people you have to start by asking... could listening to audible help you find the secret to a stronger relationship? sometimes it doesn't take anything at all for us... just say "alexa, give me my free audible book," and your first pick is on us.
columbia stealing a city bus and setting it on fire. comes today as brazilian authorities are trying to deliver humanitarian aid to venezuelans. the president maduro closed the border blocking all emergency food and medicine deliveries. government troops are firing tear gas, throwing rocks -- protesters are throwing rocks. all of this coming amid shortages of food and medical supplies. there are some new developments today after senior justice department official in a very rare statement refuted reports that the department is expected to receive the special counsel's final report next week. six house committees in a letter to attorney general barr suggested withholding evidence could be means for a cover-up, but the president and his team are sticking with the same mess and when it comes to the threat of mueller's final report. let's take a listen. >> we're seeing the same reports that you are. >> we'll read it like you will,
whatever is being released. >> i look forward to seeing the report. >> we've wasted tens of millions of dollars and two years. >> there was no collusion. >> there was no collusion. if it's an honest report, it will say that. >> we feel good about the fact that what we've said all along for the last two years will be clear. >> we'll be ready. >> joining me now is former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade. the administration seems very confident there is going to be no collusion. that may be in part because collusion is not a legal term from a criminal perspective. it would be more accusation and charges of conspiracy. >> i mean, that's one thing. from a pr spin, the president can say i was not found guilty of collusion. that's not something he was going to be even charged with. what should they be concerned with from this report. >> they have no idea what might be in it. it could be anything from a clean bill of health to i think the ultimate bad conclusion for president trump is that he engaged in a conspiracy with the
russian government to attack the 2016 presidential election. i think that it's hard to speculate his motives or get into his head. one thing odd to me is the way he has attacked law enforcement, attacked robert mueller. if someone is confident that the outcome is going to clear him, why would you attack the very investigators who are going to make that determination? >> very good point. based on everything we do know so far, how do you think this probe wraps up? do you think there are going to be more indictments? does it appear to be leading down that road? >> so again, i certainly don't know. but i think there's tea leaves from which you can draw some conclusions. number one, the fact that all of the documents that continue to come out, continue to have redactions in them. suggest that there are still investigations that are not quite wrapped up. now it could be when someone is investigated that doesn't necessarily mean they will be charged. it means charges are being looked at.
if they find evidence that the crimes were committed there could be charges. one area under scrutiny is whether other people have lied to congress. michael cohen admitted to lying about trump tower moscow and forced to plead guilty to that offense even though it brought no additional prison time and there were redactions from his sentencing memo where around the topic that talked about providing valuable information in the form of substantial assistance about circulating his testimony regarding that matter with others. so i would think that if others lied about that matter, other matters, we might see charges against them. that would include donald trump jr. and jared kushner. jerome corsi is someone also who thought he was going to be charged. we might see charges against him unless he's cooperating and only if there's evidence to support that. so i think there are a few loose ends that remain for robert mueller. so i don't know that the report
is imminent but it may be winding down sometime in the coming months. >> quickly, i looked at a daily beast article you wrote in which you say because of the justice department's policy against indicting a sitting president, that the most serious consequence the trump can face is impeachment. but the president will not be in office forever. how do the statutes of limitation come into play. >> might the president face charges when he leaves office? >> he could face charges when he leaves office because the reason behind that policy or opinion from the department of justice not to charge a sitting president is because it would be too distracting for the president to be dealing with defending himself while also leading the country. once he leaves office, of course, that problem no longer exists. only problem there would be the statute of limitations. one could argue you can't charge him because he's president or the other thing that could happen is if he was charged on january 21st of 2021, the day he
leaves office, anything that occurred on or after january 21st, 2016 within five years of the statute of limitations would be fair game including all those things that happened in the summer of 2016. >> absolutely. barbara, thank you so much. the office visit that became the talk of twitter. senator dianne feinstein's meeting with a group of school children about the green flu deal. group of school children about the green flu deal - i always wanted to speak french
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on the coast guard member who was arrested for threatening democrats and other members -- >> i'm getting a final briefing and a very complete briefing in about two hours after this. >> do you have any thoughts. >> i think it's a shame. i think it's a very sad thing when a thing like that happens. i've expressed that but i'm actually getting a very complete briefing in about two hours. >> do you think it you bear any responsibility for moderating your language when it comes to that. >> no, i don't. i think my language is very nice. >> president trump breaking lis silence on the terror blot plot revealed earlier this week. the coast guard officer and self-identified is white nationalist accused was allegedly targeting democratic
politicians and high profile journalists. joining me is zerlina maxwell democratic strategist march ril clifton and republican strategist rick tyler, also a political analyst. with a welcome to you all. zerlina, you first here. you would think a plot to the kill innocent people would warrant a very serious problem is, something more than it's a shame, it's very sad. what do you make of his handling of this? >> it goes in line with his responses to other extremist attacks that were associated with frankly the right wing of the political spectrum. you saw this after charlottesville where heather higher was murdered by a white nationalist. he said there were very fine people on both sides of that max. when you have 2018 when there there were extremist attacks and 100% were associated with right wing extremism. the president needs to be held
accountable for the ways in which his own rhetoric contributed to this atmosphere. he's not to blame directly but he definitely has a responsibility as a leader of the nation as a whole not just the republican party to the actually take these attacks and threats seriously because it doesn't matter there were liberals on the list. these are american citizens. and the president is the president of all of us. >> let's have more to discuss here and this comes from white house president secretary sarah sanders who made some remarks earlier yesterday. listen to what she said. >> i certainly don't think that the president at any point has done anything but condemn violence against journalists or anyone else. >> okay. put that statement against this clip of the president in october of last year which tells a significantly different story. here it is. >> by the way, never wrestle him. do you understand that?
never. any guy that can do a body slam, he's my kind of -- he's my guy. >> do you remember that? he was praising the congressman who body slapped a reporter asking a question about health care. so marjorie, to you this time. where do you think the president stands on the issue of violence or attempted violence against the media. >> oh, gosh, a i wouldn't pretend to think there's ever going to be consistency in his messaging. it matches what serves him at the time. what happened here is a missed opportunity and the increased amount of violence we've had, there's absolutely no debating that it's consistent with rhetoric that starts at the top. and you look at it in contrast with president obama when we had the shooting at the church in south carolina and a number of really sad and hard and charged issues that he took as an opportunity to wade in, to
acknowledge some of the brokeness and the hard things happening in the country. a shame, what a shame. a shame is a an hem comes out of your pants. a shame is my brother can't show up for family dinner. it is not a white nationalist planning an attack and murdering as many americans as possible. it would be unusual to see him take leadership and we haven't come to expect it from him, which is sad. >> talk to that point that it wouldable unusual to expect that kind of leadership, from him, rick. we've come to accept it, and it's sad. what does that say. >> the president should be the moral leader of the nation. when something like there happens it, deserves did condemnation as strongly as he can express it. what has gone unsaid is the president really escaped here. we've escaped a national tragedy and you can imagine if he was successful in these plans and actually about murder
journalists or political leaders. we would be asking ourselves very carefully about the president's behavior and his language, enemy of the people is not subtle. it's about as strong a term as you can use. it has a historic meaning also and he seems to ignore that. but this should be a warning to the president that there are people who you know, as deranged as they might be but take his words very seriously. he has escaped a national tragedy here. >> i want to get your take, rick, on what was said by former rnc chairman michael steele about all of this. let's take a listen to him. >> why would we be surprised that a self-proclaimed nationalist would not speak out against a self-proclaimed white nationalist? why are we acting like this is a space trump will go in on behalf of the american ideal? no, he's not. these are his people, all right?
he's not going to thank laurlt because he's probably not happy about what they did. >> i'm going to ask there of all three of you. rick, is that too far? is there reason to believe this president was not happy that law enforcement averted this attack? >> i take michael's point. michael an african-american. he has a different, may have a different perspective. it feels too far to me but i respect his point of view. >> marjorie, your thoughts on it? >> i again have a lot of respect for michael steele. >> so do i. >> i dote pretend to understand what's going on in donald trump's head. so i'm not even going to go there. >> okay, so finally then to you, zerlina, is there reason to believe the president was not happy that law enforcement thwarted this attack? >> i don't know that we can know what he was think. but i can look at his behavior. in previous examples of terrorist attacks or attempted attacks when the person was not a right wing extremist and either a liberal or a muslim,
the president said something about it. we can only look at the fact he did not say something about this specific threat and i think come to a conclusion. do i agree with michael steele that he may have been happy that law enforcement didn't capture this person? we won't ever know that. but what i do know is i can look at his reaction to charlottesville and i understand that he thinks there are very fine people that are standing among nazis and that tells you a lot about this president regardless of whether or not we can look into his mind and read his thoughts. >> zerlina and marjorie and rick, always good to talk with you. thank you so much. omarosa talks about the big testimony next week on capitol hill from michael cohen. her expectations coming up. rom . her expectations coming up
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one of omarosa's most stunning revelations about white house turmoil gains new credibility. i'm going to talk to her about that next. massive flooding in the tennessee valley in the southeast. storms are dumping heavy rains on parts of tennessee as well as mississippi, alabama and georgia. about 100 people in the city of bruce, mississippi were issue add evacuation order as the waters rose there friday. wow, what a mess. let's go to jenessa webb for a closer look at today's weather. that's a mess in places. >> it's a complete mess here. almost like a spring-like weather pattern setting up. severe weather potential will increase throughout the day. look at all there across the tennessee into the mississippi
valley. we have 13 million possibility of an enhanced storm risk. spinups and supercell potential across memphis this afternoon could see possible tornadoes. accumulation will range 2 to 3 inches. we've already seen a substantial amount of rain in the last few days due to these storms here. flooding going to be an issue. timing is everything. the heat of these storms starts to spark up mid afternoon into your early evening. i'm meteorologist janessa webb. we'll have more on your local forecast coming up in the next hour. stay with us. cast coming up in t urho stay with us
hey, everyone, 48 past the hour. we're just getting word from tom winter, part of the nbc news investigative unit saying a federal judge has entered an order allowing robert mueller's prosecutors to file a redacted copy of paul manafort's sentencing memo for the public and an unredacted copy under seal now. so this would indicate according to tom, that we will get hands on this filing fairly soon likely this afternoon. so we're going to keep a very close eye on that and get all the details once again.
we would get access to robert mulers' prosecutors filing the redacted copy of manafort's sentencing memo for the public to see which our reporters will look at all of that to you and get that to you. in just four short days all eyes in washington will be fixed on the house oversight and reform committee. the president's former fixer turned felon michael cohen will testify publicly before the congressional committee promising the american people will hear his story in his voice. joining me now is the former director of communications under the trump administration and author of "unhinged an insider's account of the trump white house." omarosa manigault-newman. nice to see you. >> good morning. >> we're going to get right to the fact, i want to establish you've known this president for 15 years. >> yes. >> i would imagine over this time, you've observed him and michael cohen's professional and personal relationship. so what do you expect on wednesday in this hearing?
do you expect fireworks. >> first of all, we have to establish how we got here. the reason that michael is testifying on wednesday as opposed to when he was originally scheduled to testify is because of the threats that were made against his family from the president. and so now he's ready, he's eager to share his story. and hopefully the president will show some retrapt while he comes to tell his story. interacting with michael cohen and be donald trump is an interesting dynamic. michael cohen tewell little did he knows everything about this family and he's going to share information about possible insurance fraud, tax fraud, the inner workings of their deal with the trump moscow. i'll be interested to see how much he shares about the role of
trump's children in a lot of these deals including senior adviser ivanka trump, jared, her husband and the children, don and eric trump. >> that's something you're interested in seeing. do you think that extends to perhaps what the president might be most fearful hearing about from michael cohen? >> there is no question that big red line for donald trump is his children, particularly ivanka. and once mike cohen starts sharing details that may actually implicate them, you will see him truly become, well, unhinged. >> yeah. if i heard correctly, did you refer to the trump family as the trump crime family just a moment ago? >> well. >> was that intentional? >> how else can we describe it. when you start to see how they have deceived this country, you know, trump said in many tweets i have no dealings with russia, i have never done any deals with russia during the campaign only to find out, in fact, he did in
2015 and 2016. that as reported originally that they stopped talking about the trump deal before the campaign. that's just not true. so some of the things that we are concerned about that hopefully, michael cohen will shed some light about will show you how this president has truly broken laws and possibly broken ethics rules and continues to benefit from his office, which is totally illegal. >> how credible of a witness those do you think michael cohen will be? known as the former fixer and all the things that he admits to having done in a very fraudulent way, will he be creditable? >> we do have to acknowledge the fact that michael cohen at the direction of the president misled congress as well as the mueller investigation. and even the southern district of new york acknowledged that they believe that michael cohen paid the two women at the direction of individual 1, which was donald trump. so yes, did he mislead the
investigators because donald trump instructed him to do that. and we'll hear more about that on wednesday when is he testifies. >> what do you think the big headline is going to be? any guess? >> i had i we all know that donald trump is shady, but we just don't know the levels and the layers of the types of interworkings of this organization and donald trump is very concerned about what michael cohen will share with us on wednesday. i know we'll all be glued to the television to see. >> 10-4 on that one. i want to ask you about andrew mccabe and the 25th amendment. let's first listen to what he said this past wednesday about it. >> sure. >> rod brought up the 25th amendment mentioned it in the course of a wide ranging and frenetic conversation. it is not something that i'm aware of he took any action to pursue. i don't know about any other meet that included discussions of it. >> i want to remind both you and viewers the last time you and i spoke something picked up a lot of traction online. that was the hash tag tfa that you said was passed between you
and other white house staffers during your time in the white house. i'm curious how seriously these 25th amendment talks have gotten internally or did get during your time. >> i shared with you when i was last with you we would kind of hash tag tfa which stands for 25th which donald trump was doing things that we thought were dangerous or could harm the country. i never imagine it got to the highest levels of government to hear top officials at the fbi and the justice department discussing the 25th anticipate confirms our greatest fear that people home have worked with him know just how dangerous donald trump is. so the discussions of the 25th amendment are pervasive. i even believe that the cabinet has discussed this. and it just makes us all know we have to take a closer look at what the president is doing, how he's doing it and why he's doing it or whether or not he's
capable of fulfilling the duties of his office. >> omarosa, you just mentioned the cabinet. andrew mccabe said he thought there were two cabinet memberses who could support a bid to oust the president during the 25th amendment. do you have any idea who those may be? >> no, i don't know which two he was referring to in his book. but i have a hunch. i'm not going to say because last timedy that i got into a lot of trouble. as i've shared there is a silent army of people and as was indicated during the discussions about the op-ed in the "new york times" there are a group of people who are sound mind and love this country and want to make sure this country is not harmed and that includes members of the cabinet, senior staff, members of congress, obviously members of the justice department who the want to make sure they do the right things and be as guard wells to make sure that they protect the country from any harmful behavior from donald trump. >> okay.
omarosa, just how are you and the book doing in. >> we're doing well. in fact, the paper back will be released in april. so i'm very excited. hopefully people who missed the first hard cover will be able to pick up copies in airports and bookstores and amazon, of course. >> all right. thank you so much, omarosa. good to see you. i hope to see you again. brand-new details this afternoon. we may be about to find out how long paul manafort will spend behind bars. those new developments coming your way at the top of the hour. your way at the top of the hour.
good day. top of the hour here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. we do have breaking news this hour. the special counsel's highly anticipated and potentially revealing sentencing memo for trump's former campaign chief could be made public in the next few hours. this filing against paul manafort was not revealed after a midnight deadline. but nbc news has now learned a federal judge has allowed the special counsel's office to go ahead and file a redacted version of manafort's sentencing memo. that could be made public nel moment now. we're going to stay on top of this. first to the white house, nbc's geoff bennett has more on this news. this new filing, do we have any expectations of the timing or nel of the details? >> reporter: no, but here's what we know. this is the last major filing in this two-year long special counsel case.
so this is significant. we expected to see it overnight but it was not publicly released. tame winter is reporting the following. he says a federal judge has entered an order allowing robert mueller's prosecutors to file a redacted copy of paul manafort's sentencing memo for the public and unredacted copy that would stay under seal. according to tom's reporting and analysis, he says this would seem to indicate that we'll get the filing this afternoon and perhaps quite soon. so here's why this matters. this filing in and of itself col help put together some of the pieces of the special counsel puzzle. we know a lunge last week ruled that manafort lied about his communications with a business associate of his, a business associate who is believed to have ties to russian intelligence, konstantin kilimnik. it the prosecutor in that case said that the communications, the relationship between manafort and kilimnik, this is a quote, goes to the heart of what the special counsel's office is investigating.
so the thinking is, if you get the sentencing memo and you can make sense of what's not redacted, you get a sense of what the special counsel might be aiming for. so we're keeping our eyes when we might get that filing and what it tells us. as for manafort's sentencing, we know the special counsel is recommending he be sentenced to a term that could end up being a life sentence. >> we know prosecutors are not expected to recommend leniency because the judge found earlier this month that manafort lied to investigators while he was agreeing to cooperate. so that may work against him certainly in that regard. >> reporter: that's right. >> geoff, thank you so much for that. when tom winter gets his hands on it, we will have him back with us and talk about the details. of course, the anticipation is building around robert mueller's final report, as well today despite earlier reports to the contrary. a senior justice department is
telling nbc news we should not expect the report to be handed over to attorney general bill barr this week. it is up to brarl tore decide how much of that report he will release to congress. the president again yesterday insisting is is the report will show no collusion. >> have you spoken about that. >> no, i have not. >> do you expect to? >> at some point i guess i'll be talking about it so i look forward to seeing the report. if it's an honest report, it will say that. if it's not an honest report it, won't. >> right now the acting defense secretary is visiting the u.s. southern border. he is the official in charge of deciding exactly how to divert $3.6 billion from military construction projects to bid the president's border wall. house democrats vote on tuesday on a resolution to stop the president's emergency declaration. president says he's going to veto that one if it passes the senate. plus a house budget subcommittee is holding a hearing this wednesday with military officials on how the president's declaration could impact
military readiness. house speaker nancy pelosi sending this message from the southern boarder to the president. >> we will are fighting him on this usurping of power of violating the constitution of the united states in the congress, in the courts and with the american people. >> joining me now phillip bump, "washington post," and correspondent for the "san francisco chronicle." welcome to both of you. phillip, first off, this vote next week, is it more of a symbolic move? is it trying to put representatives in congress on the record. >> it will have that record. i don't think it's solely symbolic. it is an effort by democrats in the house to try and put the brakes on this. there's a much more interesting vote in the senate where it's expected some republicans will buck trump and vote against his having the power to do this. if it passes the house and senate, it will be retoed. to override that it would
require two-thirds votes in each chamber which isn't likely. i think this is an effort both to try and stop this from happening. democrats are keeping their fingers crossed on it but to see how much support trump has on this in the senate. >> do you think democrats are also keying their fingers crossed because there may be some expect station of defectors from the republican side to the democrat side? >> i think it's all but certain there will be some defectors. we've heard from republicans already on the record say they do not like this move to declare a national emergency and concerned about the precedent it might set. it looks like the numbers will be fairly low right now. there's a december be the chance it could pass in the senate because it only needs it clear 51 votes. as phillip said, this veto proof majority seems a lit out of reach. keep in mind even if they pass it with some republicans and the president retoes it, part of
what the court cases will argue is congressional intent is very clear and that because congress has authority over appropriations, congressional intent is what matters. having a vote that expressly says congress wants to override there decision even with a presidential veto could then play into the unfolding litigation we're going to see after that fact. >> okay. i want to get to the mueller report with you, phillip. your recent piece in the "washington post" lays out mueller's indictments thus far. then you say this "the mueller report that is sitting in plain sight does not ho sla trump himself actively conspired with russiaing to influence the election. it does show that his campaign and campaign team were a locus of suspicious activity and actors. mueller's report is to some significant degree already out." does what we know so far, does that answer the underlying question about conspiracy? >> it doesn't. that's something that critics of robert mule remember quick to
point out. os stens bliss robert mueller's investigation was supposed to focus on this possible coordination between russia's interference efforts in 2016 and the trump campaign. there is no clear bright line between those two things at this point in time. there are a lot of questions. we heard about konstantin kilimnik, his meetings was paul manafort which involved trading poll data back and forth. that's about as close as we've gotten to seeing a line unless you count donald trump jr. saying he would love to have dirt on hillary clinton. we don't have the donald trump called putin and said x, probably the worst case scenario for the president. we don't know everything. we know a lot. a ton from these filings, the indictments that have come out but we don't know everything robert mueller knows. he's still keeping cards close to his chest. >> is there a nagging question you want answered from the mueller report? >> there are like 40. i wrote a piece that walked through all of them.
this manafort, kilimnik thing is the most tantalizing. did donald trump know about the trump tower meeting? did he know paul manafort was having this conversation with kilimnik? there are lots of ways president's actions are still unknown. that's probably the thing we'll learn the least about, because barr has said you can't indict donald trump under doj regulations. it's going to be tricky. >> the doj flat out shut down the rumors that the report was coming out next week. what do you think happened? >> it's a mystery of when is mueller going to be done. you almost wonder if sometimes it's almost a hurry up mess and to him through the press. there's words like as soon as next week. there is evidence that this is coming to a head very soon. potentially in the next month, in the next few weeks with all the indictments that have come out. you know, there are sentencings
that are allowed to happen which remember many of them were postponed for some time to allow further cooperation on investigations. but as phillip mentioned we find out that this manafort sentencing memo is going to have further redactions. we still have the roger stone case to play out. there are still some questions that seem farther from answering than perhaps folks would like. we're waiting to see even what this report is. is it just a note that says i've concluded my work but there are still several indictments fed to other u.s. attorneys' offices to pursue or is it some sort of complete report that is already done? we don't actually know what this first step type of signal is going to be that's transmit to the attorney general. >> the attorney general col opt to not turn it over to them, turn over only partially. democrats have said we're going to fight this tooth and nail.
what can they do to ensure they get their hands on the report? >> in some ways this is just beginning. for a long type, we've heard members who don't really want to get in front of this say we're waiting for robert mueller. once that completes, we now have the real legal fight in some cases which is going to be whether house democrats can subpoena some of these materials, whether they can subpoena not just the report but the underlying evidence, the recounts of witness interviews, whether they can going after specific files in mueller's possession and compel the attorney general to testify, whether they could compel -- there's so many different scenarios. and you know, it's certainly fathomable many of them will have to be battled in court. you have to imagine thedration is going to try to push back. we're going to see all the different sort of threads that will be unraveled in thames of where the power lies. >> phillip, with regard to the manafort sentencing memo from robert mueller's recommendation
here, what are you expecting? i think one thing is certain that it will be less than what he's gotten in the virginia case. right? because i think it's maximum five years per charge that he could possibly get. but what are your expectations? particularly in light of the recent news that he was found to be lying when he was supposed to be cooperating with investigators. >> that's the key thing. one of the things mueller wants to do is while there are certainly lips on what the recommendation can be, he's going to want to send a message if you lie to me, there is a payment that comes as a result of that. i think it's going to be sort of fascinating. all of us are waiting for the 0-year view when all the books come out about what happened and how mueller made his determinations. i'm fascinated what that interplay looks like once you get beneath all the redactions. that's the key thing that robert mueller as an institutionalist wants to send a strong message saying when you lie and are caught, you are going to pay as
big a price as we can exactly. >> what might we learn based on the sentencing guideline about paul manafort in the big picture and where this is all leading? >> one of the things that i think everyone is hoping to know is what was the nature of the lying. was there any sort of double agent not to sound too spy novel but double agent action here where perhaps manafort intentionally appeared to be cooperating and then passed information to someone else. there's a lot of places your mind can go and things hinted at in the filings. so perhaps we don't get it at the end of the day with these redactions in the sentencing memo. certainly the severity of the lie and the nature of the lie really gets at the heart of what paul manafort was still trying to conceal at this point in things. >> all right. well, tall kopan, good to talk with both of you. thanks, guys, so much. there's other breaking news
to talk about right now. this is the chaos and violence in venezuela. their protests are along the border of colombia have stolen a red city bus and set an bus on fire to express outrage over the blocking of hugetarian aid delivers by president nicholas maduro. mayor rania atensio, what are you hearing about what's happening there? >> reporter: the standoff at venezuela's borders could be reaching a boying point today. the opposition urging its volunteers to help escort trucks with almost 200 tons of humanitarian aid while the maduro regime vowed to block it from coming through. interim president juan guai dole tweeting moments ago the first shipment of aid had made it through the brazilian border but the situation is escalating. we saw the dramatic pictures of the bus being set on fire. we saw members of the opposition
literally hand carrying a tree to make way for the aid. reports of tear gas, defections by national guardsmen that are loyal to maduro that have been place there had to keep the aid from coming through. and yesterday, two members of venezuela's indigenous communities on boarder with brazil were killed in a confrontation with national guardsmen. the united states putting out a statement saying any violation of human rights by maduro will not go unpunished. and mounting on the pressure we also saw a star-studded concert yesterday at the colombian border hosted by richard branson, venezuela aid live. 350,000 people approximately and interim president juan guail dole made an appearance there defying a travel ban. one of the major questions is will guaido be allowed back into
venezuela and what does he rick by having defied that travel ban? no doubt today, alex, this is a defining day in this krys in venezuela. >> it is extraordinary. my executive producers told me we are looking at pictures. there is a significantly large crowd there. they're listening to their president, nicholas maduro speak to them. i'm curious, what is your sense of the amount of support that he has within the country despite the food shortages, despite the medicine shortages? despite accusations of malfeasance of his government. what percentage of the people still support him? >> it is very tough to say. this has been a government that has been in power for almost 20 years because he is hugo chavez's successor. they control the supreme court. they have a parallel congress, parallel to the opposition's national assembly. so they've been in power for so
long that any sort of polls that come out of venezuela from either side have to be looked at very, very closely. but no doubt that the massive shortages of food and medicine have diminished the support for nicholas maduro. but the fact that the national guard as an institution continues to support him definitely benefits the status quo and definitely benefits him being able to stay in power. so what is so bizarre about the situation is you now have two presidents, two ambassadors, two national assemblies and it is hard to know how long this situation is going to last. but a key element in all of this has been the u.s.'s involvement. so we have to see how far the trump administration is willing to take its hard line stance against maduro. >> a precarious time to say the least. every day seems bigger than the next. thank you so much, mariana
atensio. she's a top contender in 2020. reverend al sharpton sadd sat down with her for an interview. up next, we'll get his take how kamala harris could possibly win the white house. w kamala harris could possibly win the white house. d number one by rootmetrics, number one in three opensignal mobile experience awards, number one in video streaming according to nielsen, and number one in network quality according to j.d. power. we're proud to be the only network to win in all four major awards-- not because of what it says about us, but what it means for every one of our customers. choose america's most reliable network, and get apple music, on us, when you do.
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welp, someone should. just say "teach me more" into your voice remote and see how you can have an even better x1 experience. simple. easy. awesome. we were founded as a nation on noble ideals. i don't have to tell the people at this table that we also must be clear-eyed. we've not quite reached those ideas. this is an exciting time.
and there's lots of good stuff to fight for. years from now, you know, people will look at all of us and discuss, where were you at that inflection moment. >> democratic presidential candidate senator kamala harris speaking momentsing t agin des s we wa. joining me now reverend al sharpton, most of "politics nation" and president of the national action network. how impressive is she? you had lunch with her just like you did barack obama and like you do with all the democratic presidential candidates. you did this at sylvia's. i understand she was very focused on the picture of you and barack obama having that same lunch. >> barack obama when he was running, in '07, said i want to go to sylvia's. i took him to sylvia's and all of the press was there. bernie sanders came in '16 after he -- the day after he won the new hampshire primary. so this is the third
presidential candidate, but i've gone with others. >> of course. >> i think it's not only a statement but i think it's they're respecting the history of sylvia's in harlem and what all that means. and i think the answer to your question kamala harris to my surprise got as much enthusiastic support just with people in the restaurant. >> walking through the restaurant. >> and the people outside. we came out 50 to 75 people had gathered. and the press was everywhere. she had as much as barack obama did in '07 which i didn't expect. so the fact that she's west coast and just becoming known nationally i think people underestimating, she's beginning to show some traction. that surprised me. >> i bet she liked that picture. she's probably thinking take a picture of me, put it on the wall. good luck. >> that's up to sylvia's. she liked the picture. i explained the background of
it. and i think that she's shooting to be on that wall as president. >> yeah, yeah. i'm curious about your take on the criticism of her during her tenure as the attorney general for the state of california. she has identified herself as being a progressive on that front. yet, when it comes to things like criminal justice reform, accusations of keeping perhaps those that were unjustly put behind bars still keeping them behind bars, there's been a lot of subterfuge about that, let's say. what are your thoughts about that? >> we talked about it. she knows that i've been very hard on these kind of issues. that's part of what i have really done for years. >> absolutely. >> and she said that i've taken positions, for example, against the death penalty. but i committed that until we change the law, i was going to operate as attorney general and fight to make sure that we did reforms. she did things like recidivism
programs and programs for kids that i didn't know. so where i may have disagreed with some of the policies she executed i didn't know they were making sure there was not a lot of options for young people. now, having said that, when i look at the field, if i'm going to be that hard on kamala harris, i then would also have to say if joe biden ran or bernie sanders who voted for the '94 crime bill, which made all of this happen, so we can't have it both ways. we can't say she's not progressive enough but then others that are now very progressive but that were for the crime bill, oh, well, they're progressive. who determines? i think that there's going to be questions of any candidate and i think you're going to -- the people are going to have to choose who they must trust telling the truth now and has been able to show that kind of
growth curve. >> you can't just snapshot the record for sure. >> that's right. >> do you think she can win the democratic nomination and then go on to win the presidency? >> i think that the challenge on the democratic nomination is going to be, if she does well in iowa, not win, but does well, new hampshire is probably going to be senator warren, bernie sanders kind of match. then they go to south carolina. i think if she comes out to win in south carolina or in the top two, then you go to nevada, california. california is her home base. she could pick up enough momentum that would carry her into super tuesday and it may be all over. if she does not do well in iowa and new hampshire and is at the bottom and does not come in the top two or three in south carolina, it would be hard to win the nomination. >> i want to talk about a story that are did not get a lot of attention. that would be former president
barack obama and the golden state wars guard steph curry spoke at fifth anniversary of obama's pie brother's keeper alliance. here's the former president speaking about how we can all be big brothers and big sisters. take a listen. >> it turns out that if you just give somebody some attention, and say you know what you matter, how you doing, how are you thinking about your next steps, do you really think that's the best thing to do, people respond to that. so my father might not have been in my house but there were a whole bunch of men around who taught me something. >> pick up on that message there. >> i think it's an important message. i think when you have a man who grew up in a single parent home and who had all of the ways that we gauge the potential of a
person, that he really didn't have any of that going his way. and he became the president of the united states. when he's tell ugh this this isn't just some grandfather in a rocking chair giving you advice. i think it's very effective and i think he's saying it to people that need to hear it. when i saw the tapes of that, i wish it had gotten a lot more coverage because this is a person that i think can speak 0 people and to get people like steph curry and others who a lot of young people look up to. i came out of a sing the parent home in brownsville, brooklyn. i knew if it weren't for people telling me i was somebody like a jesse jackson that my concept of myself, self-concept is the most important thing in your life. you have to change people's minds in order to change their direction. i think that's what the president, former president is doing with my brother's keeper >> you've done that yourself, my friend. >> i've tried. >> very much so. good to see you. you can catch the reb's show on saturdays and sundays right
here. he is the host of "politics nation" airing at 5:00 p.m. eastern. this breaking news, we want to reiterate, we may be about to find moung paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. hind bars. we'll be back thwi more after a break. h paul manafort will spen behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. o paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. w paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. l paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. o paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. n paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. g paul manafort will spend behind bars. we'll be back with more after a break. cheesecake. philadelphia cheesecake cups. rich, creamy cheesecake with real strawberries. find them with the refrigerated desserts. what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪
right now, r & b singer r. kelly is getting ready to face a judge. about 12 hours or so after he turned himself in to police in chicago. is he charged with ten counts of aggravated sexual abuse more than ten years after he was an questioned in a child pornography case. ron mott has been following this for us. ron, with a good day to you, what are the expectations there? >> reporter: hey there. we're expecting this hearing to get under way in just a few moments. the same judge who incidentally set bond in the case involving jussie smollett is going to set bond perhaps in the case against r. kelly. you mentioned more than ten years ago he was acquitted, walked down the stairs outside the courthouse to cheers from fans. a little different mood this time around. that particular case ta stemmed from a 2002 arrest and the 2008 acquittal is now much broader.
there are four people involved in these particular allegations, three of them according to the state were underage at the time that the state alleges that he had illegal sexual contact with them. michael avenatti turned over a videotape to the state prosecutor. that's the tape that contends that robert kelly is seen on that tape with this underage girl mentioning her age on that video. obviously a very high legal mountain for r. kelli to perhaps overcome in this case. his lawyer last night came out strongly in defense of his client. here's a little bit of what he had to say. >> two of the cases are super old. not accurate. not true. one of the cases seems to be a rehash of the conduct he was acquitted for. double jeopardy should apply. >> reporter: now, r. kelly is going to appear in court. he was held overnight in police custody. they held him on what they call a nobel warrant. he has to come to court before
he can be let out of police custody. there is a possibility the judge could say no bail in this case. it's unlikely perhaps that that would happen but we are going to wait to find out and should know something in a few moments. >> give us a heads-up and we'll get that word from you. thank you so much, ron mott. we're also following breaking news any minute now, we could see the highly anticipated redacted manafort memo expected to be released yesterday. let's bring my guests in right now, former federal prosecutor and legal analyst glen kirschner and professor of law at nyu, melissa murray. glen, right to judge jackson who has ordered that the government must file this in a public docket albeit redacted. what are you looking for when this drops. >> reporter: i saw judge jackson's minute order it's called. apparently the prosecutors had filed the redacted version yesterday and it took awhile pore the court to rule on that motion. she has now ruled that the
prosecutors can file a redacted version and that will become a mat he of public record. government must also file an unredacted version with the court. that tells us at least one thing. that these investigations continue. and you know, we should have suspected that given where so many of the other cases are in the system. roger stone case, the sort of subpoena battle that the mueller team is still fighting and there are so many more things that indicate that this investigation is far from over. and i think indictments are far from being delivered by the grand jury. >> wait a minute. when you say far from over, you'll recall all of the fervor this week thinking the mueller report could be delivered and that the investigations would be over. can you put two and two together and just give i guess an estimate as to when you think that may be coming down based on this and what you're sensing? >> sure. if we look back to bob mueller's mandate, it was to investigate any contacts between the
russians and the trump campaign and any matters an rising out of that investigation. but there's nothing in there, alex, that says and special counsel and special counsel staff will prosecute all cases moving forward that they may find evidence to bring. we've already seen some of those cases farmed out to the southern district of new york. eastern district of virginia. my old office, the dc u.s. attorney's office handling the butina case and another russian case. i strongly suspect there are more indictments in the mix that may end up if not being handled by mueller's team itself, they may get farmed out to other u.s. attorneys' offers. i have a strong sense based on what we've seen over the last two years we are likely to see more indictments. >> okay. the last sentencing, melissa, the memo by the special counsel avoided actually recommending a sentence for manafort but went with an agreement to the sentencing guideline calling for
at least 25 years. that's the last major file. we know the judge last week ruled manafort lied. so might there be a changing there? do you have any idea what they're aiming for? >> nobody knows. we haven't seen the memo. it's likely given the judge determined that paul manafort lied there be a change increasing the amount of the sentence. if there is some suggestion paul manafort has cooperated to the extent like say michael cohen has, maybe there's interest in reducing it. robert mueller is the architect of all of this and setting up all of these individual prosecutions and indictments and they'll be spun off into all of the major u.s. attorneys offices and as we've seen with michael cohen even into some of the state offices. he's the grand master of this and not going to bring any of this forward but he'll sit back and watch all of everything he's put together work out. >> melissa, what did the delay
tell you? all about figuring out redaction, what the public would be able to snow? >> is that what that was all about? >> i think it's likely judge berman and her courtroom personnel have been puzzling over what to redact, what is too explosive to reveal right now. there's a lot you can piece together just reading between the lines between what's redacted. it's likely that a lot of time was spent puzzling over the memo to see exactly what could be released to the public without compromising other investigations or possible investigations that are maybe in the offing. > i want both of you to speculate what you think the most explosive thing that could be in here that we will find out. what might that be, glen? >> so what i'm hopeful that the public will see is some reference about what andrew weissmann said was the core of special counsel's investigation which is collusion or more accurately conspiracy. we learned recently that there
was this havana room cigar bar meeting between kilimnik and manafort and gates. it would sure be nice to start to get more of a sense of what special counsel may have uncovered with respect to collusion. >> okay. and you melissa, the lad of last word on this. >> the whole question of collusion with the russian government over the election and whether that collusion goes to the heart of this presidency. >> you glen, melissa, thank you so much. we'll stay following this headline if we get word on this we'll bring that to you. it is reportedly handling again. russia messing with the 2020 election already. but what can symptom it? already but what can symptom it? to be a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't.
fresh signs that russia is meddling with the 2020 presidential campaign. that is the focus of a new report in "vanity fair." and joining me now is jinah wynn. welcome to you. let's get right into what are the disinformation tactics we're seeing and can you tell which campaigns are being targeted. >> primarily they're trying to sow dissension in the democratic field primarily targeting beta row roark, elizabeth warren, kamala harris and bernie sanders. primarily they're trying to undermine these candidates' authority, trying to narrative of fake news.
specifically racist memes against kamala harris and elizabeth warren. bait toe they suggested he had a racist voice mail from the 1990s floating around out there. it's a pretty wide range of memes and hashtags but the end result is to make sure that are voters have all sorts of different opinions about these candidates. >> yeah. do you get a sense this is like 2016 or has technique -- have the techniques classiced here. >> they're pretticular so 2016. there's a recent report from a group called guardians.ai that found that 200 accounts that were closely overlapping with a group of accounts from 016 were perpetrating about two to 15% of all of these memes that -- and tweets and social media postings out of any of the recent social media postings about the democrats, roughly about 6.8.
that's a pretty large section of online content. meant to disenfranchise these candidates. >> you say 200 accounts doing that. is there any sense the white house has taken any steps to take on bots and disinformation and all the efforts there? or the government in general? >> trump's taken a position of i don't really think anything's happening here. i trust vladimir putin. i was elected fairly and scarily. if you remember from the beginning of the administration, he claimed there was election fraud. but on behalf of hillary clinton that he won the popular vote. there's literally no way he's going to budge from that position and undermine any sort of validity in any election that he should or should not win. >> it is an extraordinary and interesting and timely report from you in "vanity fair." thank you for talking with us about it. >> thank you for having me.
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biden well ahead of the pack. the umass poll has biden netting 28% of the vote at this early stage even though he has yet to announce a running. in second place, bernie sanders. he is followed up by kamala harris and then elizabeth warren. let's bring in daniel moody mills and also noel and jonathan alter. big welcome to all of you. jonathan, i want to point out that this poll ways cs conducte before bernie sanders announced. but does this give a green light to joe biden? >> honestly, alex, i don't think that they should read them at all. they just aren't meaningful at this stage in the campaign. a year before the iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary. i've covered too many of these to take them seriously at all.
>> okay, wait, so how about this then. does this though say to joe biden look where you are, others here have declared their candidacy, maybe bernie sanders hasn't quite, does it tell anything to joe biden? >> well, i mean it signals to him what he already knew which is that he has the most name recognition and the most support of anybody in the democratic party right now. but he knows having run and lost twice that that doesn't necessarily help him, that name recognition at this stage. it doesn't translate into victory. and actually it can be very perilous to be the frontrunner. the landscape is strewn with fallen frontrunners in both parties. in some ways you don't want to be the frontrunner. this is a possible problem for kamala harris who is getting some traction now too. if she peaks too soon, she could
have some problems next year. >> and danielle, i want to ask you about the vanity fair report. do you agree that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are on a 2020 collision course? >> i think they have a lot of similar ideas in terms of the u.s. economy. so i don't know if it is a collision course as much as they need to be very distinctive about how their ideas differ. bernie sanders fancies himself a democratic socialist. elizabeth warren is saying she is a capitalist but they both believe that there is gross income inequality. so it is about making their policies distinct from one another. >> and what might be more telling from this poll, it also looks at whether new hampshire republicans think the president should face a primary challenge. and the ruts weresults were div. what would you make of those numbers, would you have been
more saying absolutely not, we're mind this president? what does it say about the state of the republican party? >> well, i think those aren't good numbers if i were president trump, i would want the margins a little tighter there because what it says is, you know what, maybe i'm not so happy with the job that he's doing and maybe i would like to see a challenger on the gop side that represents the values of the platform that i stand for and maybe they think that trump is not. these are something to look at. but the other thing of it is, it still is back to jonathan's point ur point, you know, it is still early 37 . so while you look at this as a national fundraiser and i'd try to make sure that the coffers are filled so i can get out the message and where the numbers were bad, i could dominate the airwaves and make sure my message is heard. >> is there a gone potential
candidate that could challenge the president in the primary season and would that be potentially from the result of what is going to be revealed in the mueller report? >> you know, that is to be seen. but i'll tell you one thing. here is the problem. the problem with challenging a sitting president and running for re-election is the donors, the money. where are you going to get the money to combat the super pac that trump has, all the millions of dollars. and you know what trump did, trump pretty much gave every billionaire donor a cabinet position or an ambassadorship or something. so what are you going to do when half the big donors are already committed or they have had a special favor. >> tax breaks that may have helped them. jonathan, let's take a listen to new comments from bernie sanders talking with chris hayes. take a listen. >> there are still folks i talk
to who exist in the political world who are loyal democrats who feel frustrated by what they felt was your lack of loyalty to the party or your support of hillary clinton or extending the primary too long. and my question to you, what is the message if those folks who may still have sort of feelings about that. >> you know, i do understand that, but let's get the facts correct. after i endorsed hillary clinton, i went all over this country and i worked as hard as i could to see that she was elected. i think the main point to be made is that where we are right now is that many of the major issues that i have been talking about for engineering are now widely supported by the american people. >> of course i have 30 seconds to wrap up this conversation. jonathan, do things about 2016 haunt bernie sanders this time around? >> i think he has a lot of support in the party, but it does haunt him. he waited all the way until the democratic convention in 2016
before he fully endorsed hillary clinton. and that was brpretty late, sti a lot of hard feelings. if he had sewn up the wounds in april or may, she probably would have won. >> all right. danielle, i promise you start next time. thank you all so much. legal analysis of r. kelly's bond hearing today at the top of the hour. of the hour i thought i was managing my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. but i realized something was missing... me. the thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira can help get, and keep, uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts so you could experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;
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we are approaching the top of the hour which means i'm out of time. thanks for watching. up next, kendis gibson. it is a busy news day. >> a busy afternoon ahead. good afternoon, everybody. i'm kendis gibson at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we're following several big he blez sto breaking news stories. developments around r. kelly. just moments ago, kelly appearing in court for his bond hearing just hours after turning position into police custody last night. he was indicted on ten felony counts of criminal sexual abuse from 1998 through 2010. he is accused of abusing four minors. allegations that he denies. the 52-year-old singer's appearance will be in the same courthouse where a jury acquitted him of pornography charges decades ago about that his lawyer calls the women who are