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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  February 26, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PST

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washington is launching all kinds of copycats, but in a good way. that is our broadcast on this monday night as we start a new week together. thank you so very much for being here with us.
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good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a staffer on the trump 2016 presidential campaign has come forward to become the 16th woman to accuse donald trump of unwanted sexual contact. ava johnson was a trump campaign staffer in florida. the day on the alleged incident and claims in a new lawsuit that he forcibly kissed her as he exited an rv in august 2016. johnson says she turned away from trump as he tried to kit her on the lips and ultimately kissed her on the side of the mouth. this is the first sexual misconduct accusation against the president since he became the president. it's the first alleging misconduct while he was a candidate.
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it is also the first accusation made by a woman who worked on trump's campaign. johnson who in addition to suing trump is also suing the trump campaign alleging she was underpaid because of her race and gender says it took place six weeks before the release of the access hollywood tape in which trump in the year 2005 can be heard boasting he can do the very thing he's been accused of doing. >> you know, i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. it's like a magnet. i start kissing them. when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> johnson did not speak out at the time. that tape became public told "the washington post" she was stunned and said i felt sick to my stomach. that's what he did to me. two women present for the trump melania trump's chief of staff and pam bondi said it was false.
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in addition the director of trump's florida campaign told "the post" it was ridiculous saying it did not happen. in stay statement sarah sanders rejected it saying this accusation is absurd and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness accounts. johnson's family said she told them and approach had had imabout the alleged incident just two months later. joining me is hassan zavareevi. why file this lawsuit now? >> well, so ms. johnson tried to come forward and was prepared to come forward shortly after the access hollywood tape came out. it was at that moment that she was able to context allize what happened to her. i think at first she was confused and knew it was inappropriate but didn't know what it meant until mr. trump told her exactly what it meant.
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he told her and he told the rest of the country that this was a pattern, this was his modus operandi, his part of way of sexually assaulting women. once she saw that she left the campaign, she never came back. she hired an attorney. she moved out of campaign housing and she began the steps to bring a lawsuit. >> this is two months after the incident when the tape comes out, you're saying that the precipitating incident. >> yes, the access hollywood tape. >> she had very fond things to say -- i'm not saying this doesn't mean she's thought telling the truth but say fond things about the president back in may 2017 radio interview. take a listen to what she had to say. >> he is more incredible in person than i think that you would even think as you see him on tv. he's just the nicest guy. he really loves his country. he loves his family. he treats everyone as if they're part of hit family. >> is that reflect the way she fees about the president. >> absolutely not, chris, keep
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in mind after she found that the attorney or thought she had found an attorney, he declined to move forward with the case for business reasons even though he believed in the merits of her claim and at that point short think afterwards candidate trump became president trump and she was terrified and she was very scared of coming forward and she decided not to come forward and as a victim, as many victims are terrified she was as well and she decided to go along to get along to shut up and not talk about it and to move forward with her life which at that point included her life as a campaign at voekd. >> the allegations are that this was dune in a public -- in public essentially her boss, the boss of the campaign forcibly kissed her in the midst of what is a day of public campaigning. >> yeah, look, that -- again, that's his m.o., he did it to katter heller at mar-a-lago and miss usa candidate on camera. so, yes,s that sea lktly what he did and consistent with his behavior in the past.
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>> she -- did she sign an nda as the condition of her employment in that campaign? >> she signed an nda purportedly as a condition of her employment and intend to fight that. we believe it's unconscionable and unenforceable. >> why? >> it's so overbroad. not just the president, his entire family, his grandchildren. >> really? >> yes. it stifles all kinds of speech. it's so broad. i'll provide a copy if you'd like to see it. you can see how he's tried to abuse it and shut down people working in the white house. he's tried to shut down people who have made other complaints about him and in the line of work that i'm involved in where i fight corporations every day that try to shut people down and shut people up, that's what we do. we fight these sorts of abusive agreements. >> there is another aspect to the lawsuit aside from this allegation of unwanted sexual contact by the president which has to do with the way she was paid on the campaign. tell me what is that part. >> that's right. so there are two aspects.
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she was paid less than comparable men who were working on the campaign and she was paid less than comparable white people who were working on the campaign. with respect to her gender claim she's bringing that claim on behalf of all women would worked on the trump campaign and just as an example. there was a kid straight out of high school, white kid straight out of high school, teenager would was brought on the campaign as an intern and after he graduated from high school was making more than she was. >> so this is a federal race and sex discrimination lawsuit claim in federal court. >> that's right. >> what is her thinking about her role in that campaign now? what does she feel about being some small part of getting this man elected and think about him now. >> this is the most difficult thing for her. feeling like she helped to legitimize this man and help him become the president of the united states after what happened in charlottesville when she saw him talking about there being fine people on both sides. after what happened at the mexico border where he saw --
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where she saw him separating children from their parents and then when she saw him mocking the me too movement. those things i think have made a big impact on her and she feels very responsible and i think part of coming forward now is to try and redeem herself for what she feels guilty about. >> hassan, thank you so much for making time tonight? thank you. the latest allegation against donald trump is a reminder of the enormous body of sexual misconduct allegations that exist against the man who is now the president of the united states. >> when we entered the room he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each one of us without asking permission. >> i feel a little, you know, this little grab. it's like, you know, you feel like a little cheek, like a little cheek lift almost and i stand up really tall.
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i'm shocked in the moment and i look and i turn around and i look at him. he doesn't look at me. he doesn't want to make eye contact with me. >> somehow or another, the armrest in the seat disappeared and it was a real shock when all of a sudden his hands were all over me. >> the person on my right who unbeknownst to me at that time was donald trump put their hands up my skirt. he did touch my vagina through my underwear, absolutely. >> he pushed me up against the wall and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again. and i had to physically say what are you doing it? stop it. >> donald trump has dismissed all the women who accused him and suggested some were not attractive enough for him to assault. >> one came out recently where i was sitting alone in some club. i was sit ago lone by myself
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like this. and then i went, wow. to somebody. >> every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication. all of these liars will be sued after the election is over. >> when you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said, i don't think so. i don't think so. whoever she is, wherever she comes from, the stories are total fiction. i was sitting with him on an airplane. and he went after me on the plane. yeah, i'm going to go after -- believe me, she would not be my first choice, that i can tell you. >> joining me now christine greer at fordham and betsy woodruff, politics reporter for the daily beast. it occurred as i read the story in another context it would be enormous world-stopping news if a campaign staffer said getting
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off a bus, barack obama, had forced himself a kiss on her in the middle of the two years of the obama administration i think we all agree that who would be an apb. it is not because i think it is priced in and assumptions on how the president behave. >> we've been dealing with these by donald trump as citizens -- >> alleged, i must say. >> when i say assaults i mean the constant barrage, double entendre, the constant barrage of him just and his brutish behavior. yes, there are 16 women who have accused trump of alleged assault but there's so much more. every day it's a fire. you put this show together. every single day there's something think and it's this onslaught where we can't focus on one issue because each day something else happens and so what really bothers me though, this is clearly a pattern for those of us who live in new york we've known about this pattern
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for decades actually and he seems to be teflon don, right? and we've seen what happened to dr. blasey ford where she is not back at work and using her private funds and savings to hire her own security. we know that the supporters of donald trump are highly aggressive and some unstable as far as, you know, going after these women so for some it's a safety issue and he encourages that. i mean we've seen this time and time again with the way he talks about his accusers. >> you know, betsy, it struck me, the singular role that ndas play in trump world, which is followed him into the white house, clifford sims who wrote the book engaged in a legal dispute with the white house over getting out of those ndas which the president has used to lock up almost everyone he comes into contact with. >> that's right. this story is sort of the extension of two lifelong trends for trump. the first, of course, being allegations of sexual misconduct and assault and the second being
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efforts to sort of weaponize the american legal system to force people not to be open about their encounters with him and about their work with him. one thing the daily beast reported is the fact that the trump administration has forced interns to sign ndas and hasn't them them keep copies of them. nerd, if you're a young perhaps a college student trying to get started in the white house, trying to get your foot in the door in politics and you want to work in this white house, the prospect of financial ruin will be hanging over your head because of these ndas. to be crystal clear it is very much unclear whether or not they are legal or can be enforced in court. there is an interesting argument first amendment rights for these federal employees can't be enforced because the nda rather than the president being the person they're making the commitment to they'd be making the commitment to the united states as a country. the legal side is interesting and if an intern to tries to
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sue, it will be fascinating to watch but this is just trump's m.o. how he works. >> you heard her attorney saying they think it's totally null and void but another part. you talk about teflon don. this amazing thing about the equilibrium of his approval rating. no new facts change things that much in one direction. >> if you were with him when he came down the escalator saying mexican are rapists -- >> the value of shamelessness which is essentially, i mean, ralph northam is still the governor of virginia and there was this moment where when the blackface came out, people thought, obviously he last to go and one of the things i think trump has shown for all kinds of political and public figures is if you don't bow to the shame and you just plunge ahead, make you can just weather anything. >> the most dangerous man in the world has no shame and that means he will not be moved by anything, right? not by embarrassment, not by embarrassment to his family or
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his wife because he has no shame and for those of us from new york, we know that the interesting thing that betsy talks about these ndas we though that trump is weaponized the legal system in saying he will sue people but always reneges on deals he makes with other people and his go to line is well, sue me, right? yes, i know we've made an agreement where i'm supposed to pay $50,000. i'll only pay you $25,000 if you want your other sue me. >> there is, betsy, no one in public life as litigious as donald trump which is part of another part of his lifelong m.o. >> there is no doubt and interesting, you know, factor in the american legal system is that this type of civil litigation your ability to be successful in it is often contingent on how much money you have. hiring lawyers to represent you for these civil suits, some of which can drag on for years before resolution just costs a ton of money and this is a tool
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that trump doesn't -- trump is not breaking new ground in the way he uses the legal system although he is innovative and enthusiastic about it. many americans have trouble when they have a choice between do we stay quiet or do i go to try to fight for the right to say what i believe is true and people need to know. that's part of the reason he has been able to use this tool so well. he's had the financial resources to use it to go after his critics. >> i'm sort of processing the idea of white house unterns locked up behind ndas, christina and betsy, thank you both. senator absolutely warren will be here ahead. robert mueller's latest manafort filing may be an indication of bigger things to come. marcie wheeler will explain why next.
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after a delay friday night prosecutors working for robert mueller finally filed a sentencing memo in one of two cases against the president's campaign manager paul manafort. this was the one in washington, d.c. that's where a judge ruled that manafort violated his plea deal by lying to investigators. and the sentencing memo which is unsealed saturday is more notable for what it levers out than what it includes. while previous fieldings contain to be intentional hints about the probe's trajectory revealing for example that roger stone's outreach too wikileaks was directed by high ranking individuals in the campaign the manafort memo covers no new ground. instead of shedding light on his contacts with his russian ukrainian henchman konstantin kilimnik during the campaign which according to prosecutors go to the heart of the mueller investigation, the memo sticks with information already in the public record.
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it skates over manafort's lies to investigators mainly dealing with his illegal lobbying work for ukraine. though we don't know what's hiding under roughly a full page of redactioned. amid conflicting reports on the status of the investigation it's hard to know how to interpret this latest public move by the special counsel. no one has been following it more closely than marcy wheeler. she has a theory for why it holes cards so close to the vest. it shows mueller has another hand left to play. marcy, what's your mean take away from the document we got saturday? >> well, mueller has made accusations of lies against five of trump's associates. george papadopoulos, mike flynn, roger stone and michael cohen to name a few and every single one it describes other roles on the campaign and describes dates.
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it quotes directly from emails and both in this -- in the sentencing memo we got on saturday but also in all of the breached negotiation, the breached discussions going back two months before that we got none of that. and so at the time when there's a big question about whether or not mueller is going to be able to report out what he discovered, that's the first time he's withholding those details so i don't really know what to make of it but had an opportunity saturday to show his hand and he did not show his hand so for the first time he is not disclosing details. >> when you picked up on there's firm tiff decision about how many details to include and he seems to be making affirmative digs to withhold things in this document and a few of the others he has not made in the past. >> right, and at the core of the breach discussion was this
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august 2nd, 2016 meeting between manafort and konstantin kilimnik where manafort dealt kilimnik 75 pages of polling data and at the same time discussed a peace deal for ukraine which was obviously also a sanctions relief deal and so we don't get any of those details. those details came from paul manafort and to some degree the judge. they don't come from mueller in this case, but that is the story. that's like the gut of the question of whether or not trump and his campaign were conspiring with the russians. >> you just mentioned 75 pages somewhat casually. i had not seen that number anywhere. anywhere in the reporting and you sort of go through the document and find that basically the footnote by one of manafort's own lawyer's filings they say how long the polling data is and it's 75 pages in at least the attachment they gave to the court, is that right? >> yeah, so, it's included as a declaration to what the government presented back in
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january and manafort's lawyers in their very last memo which is probably why no one noticed this is like here's the email that manafort sent to rick gates saying print this out. >> right. >> and print this out so we know that that's the exhibit and then it says, here's the pages of the date that that we're all discussing, it's actually 76 pages i've been corrected on it but it's at least 7 apages long so a chuck of polling data. it wasn't just top lines. >> which does seem material to this, right? because as you said this sort of question that had been hinted at by mueller's lawyers in the breached conversation about going to the heart of what are they doing in this cigar bar on this night meeting with this guy during the campaign printing out polling data and giving it to him and the idea that manafort's own lawyers are copping to the fact that what they gave him was like a big hefty chuck of whatever it was. >> and i mean his lawyers also say, i mean they kind of go back and forth on how they're
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explaining it but say it was so complex and so focused i don't understand so the judge is like that's the point, right? >> right. >> so her discussions about why it was material are actually really interesting, but mueller isn't saying that. mueller has been silent about what that august 2nd, 2016 meeting is. we know it's central to the investigation. he just isn't going to tell us what it means. >> and there's -- the last question i guess is what -- i mean there has been so much about when it's going to end. there are sources at nbc news, congressional sources and others that say it's wrapping up soon and the special counsel office said, no, not next week. what do you make of all that? >> i have no idea. i mean. >> good, well, that's an honest answer because that's how i feel too. >> i have no idea. i mean, obviously there are investigative things that we're waiting to come in and there's like three or four other pieces
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we know have yet to come in. i'm hearing like you are that we're really close, i just don't know whether that means a week from monday or mid-march. >> marcy wheeler, thanks so much. senator elizabeth warren on her pledge to shut down big donor access to her campaign and joins me to talk about it next.
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massachusetts senator and democratic presidential candidate elizabeth warren blew up her fund-raising operation swearing off calls to wealthy donors in favor, "the wall street journal" reports of pay what you can see vents as a major departure from the usual presidential campaign, here to talk about it democratic senator elizabeth warren. what caused the decision? >> look, we've got a problem in democracy right now and that is that money has too much influence in washington and we have a chance right now in a democratic primary, we're in a primary, it's democrats against democrats to say here's how we're going to do this. we're going to build from the grass roots. we're actually going to build a foundation for the democratic party that is really about face-to-face, person-to-person, neighbor-to-neighbor people who are engaged in this campaign. whether they can give $5 o $50
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or thousands of dollars. what we care about is that we have a whole movement of engaged people who are going to help us get elected. not just to the white house, but help us take congress, help us take statehouses, help us take the governor's mansions and help us to have the momentum we need to make the changes once we're elected. this is about how we build real change. i'm excited about it. >> here's my question, you've been in politics for a little while. you've just recently were re-elected. you have done big ticket fund-raisers and put together a pretty good war chest, $11 million that you had amassed. what does that say about what you were doing before? this is the right way to do it now, why now and why not before? >> so, look, i've never actually been in a deeply competitive primary.
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i get it. republicans come to the table armed to the teeth. they've got all of their donors, their wealthy, wealthy donors and super pacs and everything going for them. i'm just going to be blunt. i do not believe in unilateral disarmament. we got to go into the fights and be willing to -- >> were you to get the nomination or anyone else, raise all the money you can however you can? >> yes, but here's what i want you to see that's different about it, chris. think about the difference once we're down to the two candidates. if the democrats have spent the next year in a primary, building this thing, face-to-face, person-to-person, neighbor-to-neighbor across the country, think of the kind of foundation that we have laid down, so that when we're really up against it, in the general election it's not just money to fund television ads, it's all
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the folks who will do the door knocking and make the phone calls and all the folks who will reach out to their network. you know how we'll win in 2020. it will be big. it will be people who voted for donald trump last time around. it's going to be people who haven't voted at all. it's going to be people who see a vision, and a way to make this democracy work, not just for the rich and the powerful but make this democracy work for everyone. >> final question on this and ask a few questions about stuff that is happening in the campaign. a proposal you put forward. the question is, how much is this ran either/or. there are campaigns that are able to build both a sort of that kind of grassroots fund-raising machinery and wealthy donors and big ticket fund-raising. what does it mean for a candidate's time? why make this sort of decision. >> well, see, that's the real point. the best estimates are that most candidates for office are spending about 70% of their time
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with millionaires and billionaires spending it behind closed doors at fancy cocktail receptions and private dinners in mansions. let me tell you what i'll do. i'll do call time tonight. you know what call time is. >> it's -- it gives me a stomach ache and i don't even have to do call time. >> i am doing call time tonight and tomorrow and the next time. the people i'm calling to say thank you to i'll call not based on how much money they kicked in. i'll call people and say, thank you very much for being part of this. thank you for going to signing up whether you signed up for 5 bucks or 25 bucks or 50 bucks and thanks for volunteering. you know, chris, i'm only going to come this way once. first-time candidate for president. i want to run a campaign that's
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based on ideas that's based on principles that's based on restoring democracy and i think this is a way to do that. join us. >> to segue that you have a very ambitious universe slal child care proposal your campaign put out a week ago if i'm not mistaken. >> yep. >> so let's say you view the problem that parents particularly women do not have rack ses to child care. it hurts female labor for participation and incredibly financial burden. two different ways to solve it. one is universal child care you stand up and a credit for the federal government which looks like what you're proposing, the other would be just like give people a child care tax credit and then they can go out there into the marketplace and find it. why did you choose your path. >> so i chose it for a couple of reasons. it's the way to get real money into it for everyone. this is child care.
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universal child care and i should say early learning. it is an investment from zero to 5. in our future. and so it's about child care for all our kids but also about putting the money into early learning because we have learned that nickels spent on 2-year-olds and 3-year-olds and 4-year-olds so they're ready to go to kindergarten and ready to learn, pays off many, many, times over through the years. so what this permits us to do is to have enough money, enough resources and then go straight into the communities and the providers, the nonprofits, the towns and cities that want to do this and say, here are the standards. if you'll meet those standards, we'll make sure there's money available and, by the way, we'll also make sure that the child care providers who are taking care of our most precious resource get paid like public
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schoolteachers. we'll even put some money in to help them bring up the standards so that happens. so think of this, chris, not just as could your kids get parked in front of a tv set and at least be safe for a few hours, it's really about an investment in our children, so they have the best possible start. this is how we build a real future in which not just the children of rich people but the children of everyone get a real chance to build lives that are good. >> there are two big sort of domestic policies your campaign unveiled. this and the wealth tax. a question i've been asking every candidate. let's say you get elected by some sort of miracle that the democrats have both the house and the senate, maybe even by a healthy margin in the senate, what is your first big domestic legislation? the first big bill that president warren moves.
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>> any corruption, the problem we have in washington right now is that money is influencing basically every decision that goes on. so whatever brings you to the table to say i care about what's happening in washington, whether it's climate change that's bearing down on us, whether or not it's student loan debt that you can't pay, whether or not it's housing that's unaffordable, whether or not it's child care, whether or not it's a criminal justice system that works great for those for private prisons or prescription drugs, every one of those crosses through the intersection of the influence of money and when you've got a government that is working great for the rich and the powerful and not working for anyone else, it's corruption. and we need to call it out. so, i've put together -- it's a big bill because it's a big problem. but it has the features we need
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to just beat back some of the influence of money. in lobbying as we know it, a force the united states supreme court to follow ethics door. stop the revolving door between wall street and washington. everybody who runs for federal office has to put their tax returns online. we've got to make this government work again for everyone. because we got to make this country work again for everyone. and it starts by reducing the influence of money and increasing the influence of the voices of people all across this country. that's the kind of campaign that i believe in and that's -- this is my chance to get out there and fight for it. >> that's a straightforward answer, admirably so. second question i've been asking everyone, the final one and i'll
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let you go, the filibuster. jay ensley thinks he should get rid of it. would you consider ending the filibuster in the near future. >> so i already have a record on this. back when the republicans were blocking everything that we were trying to do, do you remember back in 2013 and 2014, man, i was one of the ones out there fighting to beat back the filibuster and we did. we chopped the filibuster back a lot. you may remember, they not only were blocking judges, they were blocking the head of the consumer financial poe tekdz bureau and blocking the nlrb so workers wouldn't have a place to go to have their complaints heard when their employers broke the law and i was all for it. my view on this is, everything stays on the table.
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we can't live in a world where the republicans do what they want like they got rid of the filibuster for the supreme court and then we turn around and as democrats say, oh, we'll play by some set of rules that are long past now. my view is, it all stays on the table. >> all right, senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, thank you so much. i appreciate you making time tonight. >> thank you. ahead, the climate fight cutting to the heart of the democratic party debate plus is stacey abrams about to run for president? i asked her last night that question in front of a raucous audience and you will hear her answer next.
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we did our second ever live why is this happening podcast at a so many out gramercy theater in new york city with stacey abrams. the former democratic candidate for governor this georgia who recently testified before house democrats on voting rights and one thing we talked about when
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chuck schumer asked her to be the one to give the response to the state of the union address. >> so, actually saw leader schumer in new york. i'm sorry, in d.c. and we were meeting to talk about this other thing he got thousands of me doing but before we had that conversation -- [ cheers and applause ] before we had that conversation he actually told everyone else to leave the room and i'm thinking how am i in trouble already? and he said, speaker pelosi and i were having this discussion. this is my year to pick the person. but she and i do this this tandem and we unanimously wanted you to be the person to do the state of the union response. and i looked and the room, wait, i am alone, okay. [ laughter ] and i was flabbergasted. it was amazing he would ask me to do it when you saw the results of the election, right?
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>> we talked about a whole range of topics during our hour plus long conversation including her upbringing, art of her political career and what's next for the georgia democrat. and it was here i learned among other things stacey abrams is very, very funny. are you considering runs for senate. >> i am considering it. [ cheers and applause ] >> are you a possible presidential candidate? >> sure. [ applause ] >> i mean, let me hone in. is that something you're actively thinking about. >> i will say this, i've been approached by groups and by individuals who have asked me to think about it and i am -- i don't think you say no to anything. i think -- >> like president. >> no, no, no. >> for instance. >> look, if idris elba is like, would you like to go out with me, i wouldn't say no. >> i'd be like, i'm considering it. >> i am. i'm giving it careful thought.
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>> that entire conversation will be available wherever you get your podcast first thing tomorrow morning so subscribe now. - i think the best companies succeed as a team,
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and they just came out perfect. - [announcer] check out our huge selection of custom apparel for every occasion. you'll even get free shipping. get started today at just got some breaking news in the mueller probe. paul manafort asked the d.c. district court judge to give him a sentence below the ten years. manafort wants to serve the time in his d.c. case at the same time of the virginia case, not surprising. his attorneys are saying importantly, the defendant is not charged with crimes with the primary focus otherwise referred to as russian collusion. there is a debate about how am wish shows to be and how hard to address the current climate emergency. while that is happening in the democratic party, the party that controls the white house is an out liar in the entire developed world in the ridiculous juvenile embarrassing continued denial of
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the obvious facts of the matter. there is no party like the republican party in the world in this respect. they are trying to turn the president's tweets, how when it gets cold we can use more global warning into an official white house trolling panel putting together this body. they got a guy that compared persecution of carbon to the jews. >> i get called a denier and anyone that objects to the hype gets called a denier. that's supposed to make me a holocaust denier. i'm getting tired of that. the comment i made was the demonization of carbon doxide is like the demonization of the poor jews and hitler. carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world and so were the jews. >> okay. they also announced they are nominating this woman as the next ambassador to the united
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nations, which is a huge deal. this is what that individual said about literally the most pressing global challenge. >> do you yourself believe in climate change? >> i believe there are signs both on both sides that are acre wit. >> you believe there is scientists that science that proves there is -- man is not causing climate change. >> i think both sides have their own results from their studies, and i appreciate and i respect both sides of the science. >> okay. >> your possible next u.n. ambassador, america. her husband is a billionaire co-executive who "the new york times" says has a close relationship with former epa chief scott pruit. back on planet earth, democrats are engaged on how big to go. is the climate crisis a threat that exists on another plane in which old ways of doing things need to be thrown out and rethought or is it just another
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problem we face, a real one that we have to use our current tools to evaluate and fix? joining me now, heather mcgee, made an emotional plea for urgent action yesterday and president at the center for american progress. this green new deal debate is interesting because first of all, it's only happening in one part of american politics because there is a side doing things like nominating that u.n. ambassador, there is nothing happening over there. what are the debates that are happening here, heather? >> i think everything changed when the latest u.n. climate change report came out. my son was a month old when that came out, and i sat there and just had all the range of feelings when you realize this person you brought into the world will be inheriting if we do nothing over the next 12 years. basically, a nightmare. so, you know, i think most of the democratic party, much of the main stream has been working for a very long time for ten
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years for 20 years on a plan that frankly has just been surpassed. there is now a new goalpost, i wish that there weren't but there is. >> right. >> and so the green new deal, the resolution, the idea, the vision that i will say is popular, immensely popular just in its raw form, the idea of using this crisis as an opportunity to rebuilt the american dream and to channel that american ingenuity i grew up thinking we were superman and a meteor could be coming towards the planet, absolutely this country would suit up and get to fighting. that idea of the green new deal is something that is aspirational but also absolutely the minimum that we need to do and stave off disaster. that's where we need to be and something popular with 80% of americans including the majority of republicans. >> where do we see this diskugs -- discussion going.
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>> i agree with heather. the report fund mentally issue b we made substantial social change in the last 100 years, it's both a mixture of wide spread political movements that see a deep urgency and that is what is so important about the green new deal is that it's recognizing the effects of climate change, but i also think you need to at some point have a specific plan, just like the actual new deal had and that's the energy rant behind the green new deal. it's that we are recognizing the scale of the problem. i do think this debate is between, has unfortunately become like an effort of people talking past each other on what is the right solution, how do we actually get there? we have made progress over a period of time. we were in the paris deal and had a clean power plant.
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those are being destroyed. it's not that they are neutral or the republican administration, not like donald trump is neutral. >> of course not. >> not like there is nothing happening there. there is an assault on any effort in this country to deal with climate, and i think a lot of democrats are caught between these issues, which is they are defending against trump, right, and trying to take on trump but recognizing that it is a challenge and we can't just have the solutions we had in the past. >> there is two things happening. one is about the size of the scope of the division, right? which is not just a price on carbon but a bunch of stuff about transitioning the economy. i want to put that aside. a fight in the democratic party right now and in this primary will get sorted out is a key thing happening. i asked elizabeth warren and you heard her answer and every candidate.
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what's the first bill you move? what's the big first domestic priority? we're seeing now is a fight in the party and partly being worked out in realtime, heather, that like climate is the answer to that, should be the answer to the question. >> the twin crisis of the time is inequality and climate change and the answer is both is democracy. i agree it's important to get the climate bill this planet desperately needs. we need to make the people in office at that timetime. i see the theory of the case you can't get the planet we deserve, that our children deserve without dealing with corruption. >> do you see that priority question because i watched, you know, i watched the 2008 primary and watched health care, i mean, through the process, health care, became clear whoever would win that primary in 2008, it was going to be a health care bill. >> yeah. >> they had to deal with the stimulus and the first big thing, do you think we're watching this sort of prioritization play out now?
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>> absolutely. i think that is part of what it is. i hope that through this debate we have not just a discussion of motive and who cares most about this but what actually also happened in the 2008 campaign and i was on all sides of the debate was an actual discussion of how these plans would work. so as you remember, there was detailed discussion back and torte between senator obama and clinton how you actually got a universal health care plan and whether we would have an individual mandate or not and what i think is so vital about this debate is that we have a sense of urgency about it but believe the next president has to have a specific plan, not just a resolution and resolution is really important, but a specific plan to deal with the climate crisis because if we're
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just talking about what we like and what we care about and the priority and don't have specific goals or specific legislation, then that, too, will let a lot of people off the hook. >> so i think this is a really important thing to respond to because there absolutely needs to be a next part of the green new deal movement, which is legislation. >> absolutely. >> i think we can do that and the first step is getting a sense of the democratic party on the senate floor that we are all behind this vision. there are things that are happening all across the country at the state level that will be components of the green new deal and it's not like we don't have the answers. i mean, we have this weird can't do in this country, even among democrats. we built the hoover dam and put the man on the moon. >> let me have a final question -- >> let me say i agree with that. we did put the man on the moon and i appreciate that about the green new deal. that's my only point. >> let me say living through the 2008 primary about the mandate, barack obama was like no, you
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can't have the mandate and would be won the nomination. it matters more the consensus. thank you both. that is "all in" for this evening. on our broadcast tonight, what rod rosenstein said today that has democrats asking what he meant by that exactly, what he might know about the mueller investigation that he's not saying, and there's already talk of subpoenas. also, the new response tonight from paul manafort's lawyers hitting backs at the feds while arguing for less time in jail. plus, the michael cohen traveling road show arrives for a three-day tour in washington. speculation well under way as to how far he might go. all of it a giant distraction for a president on the other side of the planet going into nuclear summit with the dictator from north korea. "the 11th hour" on a monday night begins now. good evening once again from


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