tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC February 26, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PST
i'm stephanie ruhle. >> i'm ali velshi. i'll see you back here at 3:00 p.m. right now it's time to hand over to our friend katy tur, who's not with us. are you in washington? >> she is with us. >> you're always with us in spirit. >> i'm with you in spirit but not in body. >> see you in an hour. >> thank you. it is 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. here in washington, where today president trump's former personal attorney kicked off the first of three days of congressional testimony. tomorrow's testimony will be public. a knowledgeable source tells nbc news that is what michael cohen will provide evidence of his old boss' criminal conduct since becoming president. cohen is expected to detail the president's lies, racism, and cheating as a private businessman while cohen spent a decade working for him. and according to that source, cohen is coming with the receipts as well, including information about donald trump's finances. before cohen even began his
testimony today, the white house, though, was at work painting him as an untrustworthy witness. sarah huckabee sanders said, quote, it's laughable that anyone would take a convicted liar like cohen at his word and pathetic to see him given yet another opportunity to spread his lies. and sanders is not the only one who's questioning cohen's credibility. >> michael cohen is here. what are you hoping to hear from him? he lied to the committee before. do you expect him to tell the truth this time? >> no. >> what we need to hear from michael cohen is that information presented in a transparent fashion. >> are you sure you can trust mr. cohen? >> sure has a track record of questionable -- >> do you believe michael cohen? >> well, you know, we're at a point now it's hard to answer that question with an unequivocal yes because he's going to jail for lying to my committee. this is a guy with nothing to lose though. >> the big question we are
asking today is will michael cohen's testimony change anything? joining me is nbc news intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian and nbc news correspondent garrett haake. when you were listening to those answers lawmakers were giving on whether you can trust michael cohen, they seem to follow party lines. should we expect most republicans will question his credibility and most democrats will say, listen, i believe him? >> no, i don't think so, katy. in fact, i think the distrust of michael cohen does cross some party lines, particularly here in the senate where senate intel committee members felt very burned by the fact that cohen lied to them in his original testimony. then even in the process of rescheduling the hearing we're having today, the committee chairman felt like cohen may have overplayed his medical reasons for not showing up in the first place. there's a real credibility gap here with michael cohen. he has a lot to prove and not just to the republicans.
look, you covered him when he worked for donald trump, as did i. he wasn't exactly forth coming with reporters over the years either. what cohen is able to bring to back up his story, particularly tomorrow in that open hearing, i think will be incredibly telling. his word alone is just not going to go that far with lawmakers of either party up here. >> how are the hearings going to be different from one another, other than one being public? >> that's the huge difference, right? in closed session, the theater of the whole thing is out the window. the closed session hearings will be about russia and clearing up his lies and other issues. but look, in terms of the open hearing, to answer your big question, will this change anything? first of all, they're saying he's got evidence committed crimes in office. if he's got documents to suggest that, that could change a lot. that could open a new investigation. secondly, while we've had tell-all books from trump insiders that painted an unflattering picture, we haven't had one testify on television
live with documents, talking about apparently stories of lies and racism and tax cheating. i think that could have a big impact. imagine if we could turn back the clock and michael cohen was doing an interview on "60 minutes" or live television during the fall campaign, telling these stories. would that have affected donald trump's chances of being elected? i would think yes. if nothing else, this plays into the 2020 election. >> and garrett, these are answers he's going to have to give that potentially -- are they going to be under oath? i know lying to congress, period, is a crime. that's part of the reason why he was hauled back. >> right. that's typically the case. no one knows better than michael cohen now the consequences of lying to congress. it's part of the reason he's going to federal prison. so i do expect we'll see a truthful michael cohen. but again, the credibility gap is real here. here's going to have to go a long way to convince anyone of anything when his testimony comes into conflict with others. it was not that long ago, what, within the last month, that cohen was at the center of probably the biggest walkback or biggest outspoken moment by the
special counsel, that buzzfeed story in which it was reported he had been expressed ordered by the president to lie. is he going to back that statement up tomorrow? he'll certainly be asked about it. that's the kind of conundrum that cohen is in. he's been at the center of everything for so long. it's why he's so valuable. but the level of trust, i just can't speak to it enough, is exceptionally low. >> so if he does come in with receipts, and according to a knowledgeable source, he potentially will have documentation. what sort of documentation could that be? what would he have access to? >> almost anything. letters with donald trump's signature, e-mails. he's got recordings. >> he definitely has those at the least. >> speaking to the issue of his credibility, everything garrett said is absolutely true, but we should keep in mind that the prosecutors in manhattan and robert mueller's office have deemed him credible enough to put his information in court
documents. once they charged him with lying and got him to come clean, he's not g got nothing to gain by lying further. >> michael cohen wants to spend as little time in prison as he possibly can. the idea of lying further to any sort of congressional committee would not align with his desire to get out of jail as quickly as he can. i don't think he wants to add any years or any days behind bars. so you have that. garrett haake, thank you so much. and ken dilanian, thank you. joining me now, jackie spear. what do you want to know from michael cohen? what's the bar of credibility for you? >> well, i think the credibility will have a lot to do with what documents he brings, as your colleagues have already spoken
to. that becomes very powerful. if he can show us documents that incriminate the president. let's be clear. for ten years, he worked for the businessman donald trump. i venture to say there were lots of things done during that time frame that either skirted the law or violated the law. i will be interested in finding out what those situations were. now, the other thing that's important to point out, he lied on behalf of donald trump and the moscow trump tower project. so the president has made it his business as a businessman and frankly as president to surround himself with people that he expects will lie for him. that's what's gotten a lot of them in trouble, six of them. six of his inner circle now have either pled guilty or been convicted of lying. >> what is your number one question that you want answered
publicly? >> i want to know if there were other hush money payments. i want to know if he was asked to do anything illegal or something that skirted the law in business dealings. i want to know if donald trump puffed up his financial statements or reduced his financial statements for purposes of getting a loan. those are the kinds of questions i'm interested in getting the answers to. >> what do you expect to hear in the private hearing, in the intel hearing on thursday, the one that will not be public? are you going to get into russia? if so, what is the number one question on the topic of russia? >> so that hearing will eventually become public. that transcript will become public at some point in time. but during our hearing that will be closed, it's going to be all about russia. any engagement that michael cohen was involved in relative to then-candidate trump and particularly the trump tower
moscow project. it got started in 2015. they came up with their letder of intent very quickly. then through 2016 when donald trump was the presidential candidate on the republican side, there was much activity going on there. this really appeals to donald trump wanting to make money, which is one of his number one interests. this would have been the largest financial transaction he ever engaged in. and it was going to also be the tallest building in europe, which also appeals to the president's ego. >> have you been told what documents or what recordings michael cohen might be coming with tomorrow, what he might show the committee? >> no. to my knowledge, that hasn't been presented to the committee yet, either his testimony or any surrounding documents. >> do you expect him to be coming with documents? >> i think his attorney has already said he's going to be able to buttress statements he
makes with documents. >> okay. there is a disconnect between what the white house says about michael cohen and what some republicans are saying about michael cohen and what some democrats are saying about michael cohen in terms of credibility. the white house is trying to undercut his credibility completely, saying he's a known liar, and i'm paraphrasing here, it's offensive that he's even being given another chance to speak. devin nunes has said that cohen's testimony in front of the intel committee should be public. he says there's no reason to prevent him from testifying publicly since he previously spoke to us in an unclassified setting. what do you believe the effort is surrounding cohen, and why do you believe there is a disconnect between the way he's being treated? >> well, i think that it's very simple. the republicans are going to play defense because they are no longer in the offensive position. and i just harken back to that
interview that you've seen over and over again where the president is asked about hush payments for stormy daniels and karen mccdougal. he says he knows nothing about it. then we have a tape that michael cohen took that clearly identifies donald trump talking about the hush payments. the involvement of david pecker from "national enquirer," how many other deals did donald trump cut with david pecker? there's a treasure-trove of questions to ask michael cohen that i think get to the heart of the character of donald trump the businessman and donald trump the president. >> one last thing. is it going to change anything? is his testimony going to change anything? >> i think it will. i actually think, without trying to be overly dramatic, the extent to which he can give us a bird's-eye view of what went on in trump towers, in the trump organization, has documents to
back it up, could be very compelling. >> california congresswoman jackie speier, we appreciate it. and the president is about to meet with kim jong-un. we have reporting on what could be on the table. but right after this break, russia will be the focus of tomorrow's testimony, but the men who wrote the book on donald trump's relationship with russia have some suggested questions for lawmakers, and they run the gamut from beyond russia as well. they join me next. well they join me next. "four on four" with a barbershop quartet? [quartet singing] bum bum bum bum... pass the ball... pass the rock.. ...we're open just pass the ball! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. yea. [quartet singing] shoot the j! shoot, shoot, shoot the jaaaaaay... believe it! geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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are donald trump's taxes really under audit? did you ever have any conversations with donald trump about how he could use his campaign to make money for the trump organization and his family? how about the presidency? were you involved in any other hush money payments beyond those for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels? has trump ever been the target of extortion or blackmail from individuals or foreign entities? can you explain donald trump's long record of making positive statements about vladimir putin? have you ever been to prague? michael cohen is testifying in public tomorrow in front of the house oversight committee, and those are just a handful of questions that our friend david corn from mother jones suggested lawmakers ask michael cohen. so joining me now, the co-authors of the book "russian roulette." you know it well. and for the legal angle, u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, former,
mimi roca. gentlemen, thank you for being here. david, that was a good list of questions. and that was just the tip of the iceberg. >> it took us about 15 minutes. we just sort of sat around and said, what should we ask? it's not comprehensive, and it's probably enough to do three days' worth of hearings. there's so much about trump's finances we don't know, even putting aside russia questions. >> what would michael cohen know? >> he would know about overseas deals, probably how they used llcs to structure deals, hide debt, perhaps, hide assets. there's several mysterious loans that trump has never explained, one with deutsche bank, one with a chicago unit, a company that no one really knows what it is. so he would know about that. he would know if there are other hush money payments with other
women. steve bannon once say famously, there are hundreds of these. well, if there are hundreds of them, that's michael cohen's business. he would know -- i know you want to get in here. i could go on for hours here, katy. but he would know, too, about efforts of lobbying during the inauguration to make money off foreign officials that maybe trump had some hand in. there's just so much there. >> so there's the question of what cohen is going to say. then there's the question of what cohen can actually prove or what he will say that will be corroborated. and i think that's going to be sort of a major thing to look for tomorrow. but on a couple points that david made, look, if he's got evidence of other payments that trump made to other women, that could be the most exculpatory thing he says about donald trump because the alleged criminal conduct here is he made payments for the purpose of --
>> to affect the election. >> if he was making payments to lots of other women, that would undercut the idea that those payments were explicitly for the purpose of affecting the election. it was just the way trump did business. but look, there's so many different aspects of this. i do find it interesting, though, that, you know, for the public hearing, cummings has said he can talk about those campaign finance violations, which would suggest to me that the southern district has not put any restriction on him talking about that, which then, you know, suggests to me that they're not planning on bringing other cases based on it because that's the one area where they would try to put a brake on what cohen could talk about. >> the last question that i asked at the top of this segment is one of the ones i'm most interested in. have you ever been to prague? he's vehemently denied this to everyone who's asked him.
absolutely not. he denies the dossier. but he hasn't done it under oath. again, telling a reporter something isn't legally binding. doing it in front of congress -- >> he would have told mueller and the fbi. they've got the answer to that. >> if he answers anything less than no, absolutely not, what are you going to read into? >> well, that clearly would undercut the steele dossier, one of the more sensational allegations in the steele dossier. look, i think it is inexplicable to me that the russia part of this before the intelligence committee is going to be behind closed doors. at this late date, there's no excuse to have any of this behind closed doors. his case has been adjudicated by mueller. his testimony is locked in. there's no reason why the public can't know what he's already told the special counsel. >> i'm hoping that he does get into the trump tower deal in russia, which isn't the most significant conflict of interest that any american presidential
candidate has ever had that we know of. while running for office, he was trying to do a major deal in russia that would have brought him hundreds of millions of dollars. and michael cohen was talking to vladimir putin or his office about how it could help make this deal go forward. so lots of questions about that. that, i think, was one of the big secrets that donald trump kept during the campaign because he knew what it would mean. >> mimi, i know what the journalists want lawmakers to ask. what do the lawyers want the lawmakers to ask? >> well, actually, katy, in this case at least, i don't think it's that different. i think we all have -- all the questions you said at the top of the hour, that david and michael have been talking about, i mean, i'm sitting here nodding my head yes, yes, i want answers too. i think with respect to the trump tower moscow deal in particular, i want to know why he lied. you know, we always have been saying on these shows, you know, that the lies are usually covering up something else. i think that's sort of a big
question. you can't get it with one question, but we want to understand how these -- how and why these lies got formed. i hope that, you know, they can formulate questions to really get at that. was it just because they all started feeling we shouldn't let them know we're dealing with russia, or was it because it was part of some bigger quid pro quo? that's going to get into not just lying but criminality, possible bigger criminal schemes. also with respect to the lies, we certainly want to know who was he coordinating these lies with? i don't mean sitting down, drafting the letter together with other people. it could be as simple as, you know, getting a wink and a nod of approval from someone, including trump. those go, again, to important criminal liability issues, not just the impeachment questions. i think both here are important for them to pursue. hopefully they can -- i'm just a little concerned that the
questions aren't going to get us the answers we need, particularly when they're coming to five-minute segments. >> you've clearly watched a congressional hearing before. mimi, what will you be looking for in terms of what you need in order to feel that michael cohen is credible? >> look, everyone should be skeptical of michael cohen. democrat, republicans, no matter where you fall politically, be skeptical of michael cohen. he's a liar. but he was not out there telling lies on his own. he was doing this, as far as i can tell, and this is what i think needs to be probed. was he doing this with and on behalf of other people, including trump? or was he just this rogue person out there, you know, doing -- telling lies his whole career? i'm not just talking about in his congressional testimony. so i think anyone who tries to paint him as anything other than a liar is doing a disservice. they have to own that. he has to own that and show us why now his motivations are different. that's what it comes down to. what are his motivations now to
tell the truth? is he trying to get more credit, or some credit with the southern district of new york? he doesn't want to anger robert mueller, whoi could then go and tear up his plea agreement. he wants to redeem himself essentially because he knows he got caught lying in the first place, and that's what got him into this boat. so i think he has a lot of incentive to tell the truth now, and that's what i'll be looking for. >> i totally agree with david that the moscow tower project is really central to, you know, so much of this. and it's going to be -- let's hope he gets to talk about that in public and that cummings doesn't cut him off. but the granular detail is going to be everything. you know, we know from the plea agreement he briefed donald trump. how many times? what exactly did he tell trump? what did trump say to him? that's not anything we've gotten answers to so far. >> and how much was he in contact with the children? >> and other members of the trump organization, including the children. absolutely. >> it's not just russia.
it is finances. it is -- >> and i expect if the hearing is done appropriately and the right questions are asked, at the end of the day -- >> that's a big if. >> big if. michael, myself, ken dilanian, the whole nbc investigative crew will have leads on other stories and other projects to look at. >> we'll see. and we'll see how much mike come h -- cohen answers. and whether or not we can read into some of the questions he is not able to answer in front of the committee. that could say just as much. >> or doesn't want to answer. >> so much. we're all going to be watching. thank you, guys, very much. and next, what would a successful summit with kim jong-un look like? im jong-un look like? after months of wearing only a tiger costume, we're finally going on the trip i've been promising.
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the last week of march, i've decided not to file in the new election for congressional district nine. the north carolina state board of elections ordered a new election last week on allegations of ballot fraud and election fraud. harris' own son, an assistant u.s. attorney, took the stand in that hearing in what was emotional testimony for that family. he said that he warned his father about potential misdeeds by a campaign operative, but again, mark harris has decided not to run in that new election. moving on, president trump has arrived in vietnam ahead of thursday's summit with north korean dictator kim jong-un. he's set to meet with vietnamese leaders tomorrow before a formal dinner with kim followed by the official summit. the pressure is on for president trump. despite declaring victory after last summer's summit in singapore, north korea has not made any significant efforts towards denuclearization, according to u.s. officials who have spoken to nbc news.
and as our own jonathan allen points out, the president is desperate for a win. joining me, nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, who's in vietnam, and daily beast columnist gordon chang, the author of "nuclear showdown: north korea takes on the world." kelly, it is late, late, late there. the president, i assume, is at his hotel. what's the administration saying about what's on the table and what is off the table for this meeting? >> reporter: well, good to be with you, katy. yes, the president is at his hotel. it is the middle of the night here, and so he's sort of acclimating to the time zone. he'll operate in the local day come wednesday. they start off with a focus on the host country, as you point out, with meetings with the vietnamese officials. the hope here is to somehow get north korea to do something more demonstrable than what we found last year in singapore. that had all the trappings of history around it. this is sort of a progress update.
the president has emphasized the strength of what he says is a good relationship with kim jong-un and that that is in and of itself a sign of progress. but the people who have been negotiating the deal on behalf of the united states in the rounds of negotiation that happened prior to the principals getting together, which is part of the summit here, there has been a real concern expressed about north korea not taking the steps that it had pledged to take and not agreeing with the united states on how to even define denuclearization. from north korea's point of view, they want to see that the u.s. sort of umbrella of protection for our partners like south korea be removed. that's something the u.s. is not prepared to do. and the united states wants to see absolute, verifiable, an end to the weapons program in north korea. that has not happened. so here we are for a second meeting, and yet the terms of the most basic question at the core of this are still something where the two sides are not in agreement.
that sets up a tense situation. no matter how much the president's relationship is a positive from his point of view with kim jong-un, and there's certainly the history and trappings and all of that, but those core issues are still to be dealt with. >> given that, given that it's been eight months and the north koreans have not lived up to their end of the bargain, what is the point, gordon, of having another summit between these two leaders? >> there really is no point. if i were president trump, i certainly would not ask for a second summit with kim. you know, we've got to remember that even though trump may have a good personal relationship with kim jong-un, and i certainly don't doubt him on that, that's completely irrelevant. kim is in a regime. that regime dictates certain actions on the part of its leader, especially in the kim-ist state. at this particular time, i think that we should be applying pressure on north korea. we should not allow the chinese, the russians, and south koreans
to openly violate sanctions, and we should be applying this pressure in a way to force kim to realize he could either keep his nukes or keep power, but he can't keep both. >> isn't he going to be willing to give up his nukes? >> certainly not under the current set of incentives. we heard dan coats, the director of national intelligence, say that north korea will never give up their nukes. that's true, but only under the way we've structured things. there's a whole new set of incentives, and that's actually president trump's job description, to change those incentives on north korea so they do what we want them to do. i think the american people need to ask the president, why are you not using all of america's power to protect the american homeland? because obviously north korea is a threat, and we're not doing what is necessary to move them in the right direction. we know what to do. we're just not doing it. >> gordon chang, kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. and will enough republicans break ranks to stop president
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members were extremely interested in the subject, and i personally couldn't handicap the outcome at this point, but we will certainly be voting on it. one thing that's not in debate in our conference is we really do think there's a crisis at the border. it doesn't seem to be any difference of opinion about that. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell would not guess on the outcome of a potential vote in the senate and the president's emergency declaration. house democrats are set to deliver their first major rebuke of the president today. they're more confident in what's going to happen. they are expected to pass a vote to block president trump's national emergency declaration. after that, it will go to the senate, where mitch mcconnell will find out where his caucus stands. the recently empowered house democrats flexing their legislative muscle is one thing. perhaps more interesting,
though, is will the senate republicans that are openly breaking with the president, what's going to happen to them? senators tom tillis, lisa murkowski, and susan collins have all committed to voting against the emergency. murkowski justified her decision earlier this afternoon. >> i actually care about the institutions, whether it's the institution of the executive, the legislative, or the judiciary. when you go into the military construction funds, that, in my view, is overstepping the authorities that he has within the executive. he's overstepping into the legislative prerogative. >> so just one more defection from a senate republican would force the president to veto the measure, which is why, as politico points out, the president is potentially on the brink of defeat. joining me, politico senior writer and msnbc political
contributor jake sherman. so mitch mcconnell says everybody on his side agrees that there has an emergency at the border, that there's a crisis at the border, but he couldn't say how his members are going to vote on this. what should we expect, jake? >> we should expect if mitch mcconnell is doubting the outcome, it's probably not going to be a good outcome for him. as we know, based on experience of reporting up here and talking about this all the time, katy, mitch mcconnell rarely is in doubt about the outcome he is going to get on the senate floor. i think it's nearly certain or certainly very likely that the president is going to be rebuked. at the same time, it's not going to be veto proof. this emergency declaration, at least in the senate, is not going to have a veto proof majority. but i think it is fair to say, and again over the last decade, republicans have been not singularly focused but certainly very, very focused on the fact that the obama white house
overused its unilateral authority. now we're seeing president trump use its unilateral authority to an extent we've almost never seen before in a way that's just completely -- and republicans are falling in line by and large in a way that's just frankly intellectually dishonest, based not on my standards but where they set the standards over the past decade. that's been a little stunning for me personally to see. >> house minority leader kevin mccarthy seemed to claim a little bit earlier today that this authority the president is using is one that's been used multiple times in the past by democrats. let's listen to him. >> democratic presidents have used this power because they have the right to use this power. a number of presidents, republican and democrats, have used this power for numerous things. they have the power to do it. congress voted to allow it. >> jake? >> yeah, that's fine. mccarthy is a big defender of the president's. he's allowed to defend the
president. i remember when president obama used that authority. they said it was improper. now the president, president trump, is using this authority to enact something that congress has completely rejected. congress rejected the president's kind of -- what the president is trying to achieve by his authority. congress couldn't legislate it because there wasn't the support on capitol hill. if barack obama did this, republicans would be absolutely down his throat. there is no doubt that the president has certain authorities to use unilateral power to enact certain things. that doesn't mean republicans haven't spent the last decade jumping all over it and threatening to hold barack obama's feet to the fire. just a huge dose of intellectual dishonesty from members of congress who set the bar. not me, not you. they set the bar. >> not all republicans. tom tillis had a "washington post" op-ed today. he said it wasn't okay under obama, it's not okay now. he writes, conservatives rightly cried foul when president obama used executive action to
completely bypass congress and yuan l unilaterally provide deferred action to adults who knowingly violated the united states' immigration laws. there's no intellectual honesty in now turning around and arguing there's an imaginary asterisk attached to executive overreach, that it's acceptable for my party but not thy party. we appreciate the rhyme, mr. tillis. jake sherman, thank you very much. i guess the consensus here is that republicans will rebuke him, but it will not be a veto-proof rebuke. >> that's right. >> they won't be able to overrule him. jake sherman, thank you. next, why bernie sanders believes he can win the support of trump voters. of trump voters.
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bernie sanders is going after trump voters. the vermont senator and 2020 contender made the promise to target states that went for trump in 2016 at a cnn town hall last night. >> i go not only into communities which are progressive or democratic, but we head out to trump country. we head out to trump country. and we are going to talk to those people. we're going to expose trump as the liar and fraud that he is. >> joining me, obama 2020 pollster and msnbc contributor
cornell belcher -- 2012, excuse me. >> i was getting excited. >> 2012. former republican congressman of pennsylvania ryan costello. gentlemen, thank you very much. there was a lot of crossover for bernie sanders and trump voters in 2016. or there seemed to be at least while they were both primary contenders. look at these numbers. in pennsylvania, mr. costello, 117,000 people said that they could see themselves supporting bernie sanders over donald trump potentially. that could have been a real game changer for the republicans. >> i knew some of them. it was a combination of your blue dog democrats that liked trump's jobs message, and also, let's not forget, the anti-establishment -- trump was anti-establishment. bernie was anti-establishment. i shouldn't say this, but blow up the system, start from scratch with something that both of them kind of manifested in their primary. >> what does that look like
today? >> see, here's the thing. i have a fundamental pushback on this, this idea that democrats need to be chasing trump voters. if you look at what trump did in the midwest compared to, say, what obama did and back to back majorities, trump has not a a majority, but a polarity in most of these battle ground states. if you take what he got in 2016 and compared it to what we did in 2012, it's a losing coalition. as opposed to chasing trump voters, obama got 1.1 million more votes in michigan, pennsylvania, ohio and wisconsin. how about trying to broaden the obama coalition and stop spending so much time trying to focus on what trump is doing and chasing trump voters. do democrats need to compete everywhere? yes, but the key is expanding and recapturing the obama coalition. >> you know this as a democratic operative, when you are campaigning in a primary whether
it be a caucus or election day, the democratic playing field in some of these states screws more liberal. you may be going into a state you may not win in a general election, but you want to get there early and lay down the marker and lock up delegates. >> it's apples and oranges. people who vote in primaries are different than the old ideals of the general electorate. look, bernie sanders and every democra democrat, we have to build a blue wall. trump has not expanded his coalition. the marquette poll is at 39. you do not want to be going into reelection with the numbers like that. >> what is the best path. is it good for democrats to say i have a jobs message and they can appeal to that blue wall that got cracked when donald trump won in 2016, but i will go after the apathetic voters and
the minority voters across the rest of the country. i have a real opportunity to make turn out a thing and a real opportunity to not just take back the election by a little bit by those small amounts of voters that went for trump in 2016, but make it a landslide. >> i will make ta number. 1.3 less african-americans in 2016 than 2008. that's a big deal. if you look at what obama did, he won 43% of the white vote in 2008. same percentage that john kerry d. the difference was not white voters, but more younger and diverse voters. that's the key. >> what did we have on the screens? the bernie sanders voters appear to be new supporters. he raised a record amount of money in the first 24 hours. more than $6 million. how much of that is -- is that a
force to be -- >> bernie is the real deal. here's the problem for democrats as i see it. bernie is not going to move. he is authentic and owns who he is. he is not going to deviate off of his platform. a lot of other candidates whether we talk about green new deal or more supreme court justices, there are issues that fall outside the mainstream. as democratic candidates try to grab that bernie fever, a lot of middle america may be looking at that and say i know what trump is. he's not going to veer left on me. democrats run the risk of really running into the ditch on the left in a general election. >> or they will inspire new voter who is haven't come out in the past. >> that number that bernie put up in fund-raising can be taken very seriously. that in the end, money is spoiling our system.
i benefit from it, but we have to get out of it. money is key. his ability to raise money from small donors and also watch what the independent expenditures do. once upon a time, people like newt gingrich couldn't hang on because he couldn't win, but money gets behind them. >> watch the outside groups and watch who they spend money on. it could pose a challenge for people who are trying to raise moan from small donors. nice suit, my friend. >> thank you. >> i can't compete. >> sorry. he put you to shame. the purple tie is nice, but he put you to shame. gentlemen, thank you very much. you both look great. big pharma gets grilled on the hill. one more thing is next. hill one more thing is next not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith.
one more thing before we go, today the senate finance committee grilled seven top executives from the largest pharmaceutical companies about why drug costs are so high. take ins lip which is what type one diabetics need to survive. a vile cost less than $200 and today it's $1500. a month supply of the drug that treats osteoporosis costs as much as your average car. $26,000. in the uk, the same month supply is just $350.
the rising cost of drugs and blatant price gauging is not just infuriating and it is infuriating, it's deadly. just last summer a study from yale found that the rising cost of insulin resulted in one in four diabetics using less so they can conserve and afford it. just last month, gotti schwartz traveled to a pharmacy in mexico. i'm sure you can guess why. >> i need two of those boxes to get me through about a year. that year's supply of insulin in the u.s. is $1400. here it's $200. >> why prices are rising and why it costs more to buy drugs here than anywhere else. they didn't have many answers, just claims that issuing rebates and tax breaks and working with medicare prevented them from
lowering the cost to you. >> i think you and others in the industry are stonewalling on the key issue, which is actually lowering list prices. how is that not gauging the american consumer with high prices even though you are giving other people in western industrialized countries a better deal. >> that's a great question and the reality is that prices vary dramatically around the world. there is no question for the most part, the u.s. has some of the highest prices in the world. >> did you use any part of the tax break that you got to lowering the cost of your prescription drugs? >> yes, we did. >> we didn't get much from the tax break. >> they didn't get much from the tax break. that will wrap things up from this hour.
ali velshi is back in new york. ali velshi, what a sad state of affairs. >> i don't get tired of talking about that. it doesn't happen like that in other countries. it was remarkable to hear the stories you told and the testimony today. one hopes the situation is going to get better. thank you for covering it, katie. >> thank you, ali. >> they shut him down. nbc news confirmed that cyber command stopped an infamous russian troll factory looking to sew discord with americans on the day of the mid-term elections, first report eed by "the washington post." this was part of the first offensive campaign designed to thwart attempts to interfere with the u.s. election, flexing under new powers, president trump and congress granted to strengthen offensive cyber capabilities. the post notes