tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC February 28, 2019 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
administration. lindsey graham is a perfect example. it is intoxicating and they don't care they are hated by other people. now i'm part of the team and one of the cool guys. >> who asked really good straightforward questions. >> you know how many there are? one. >> joy reid and jason johnson, thanks for being with us. good evening. chris, thanks to you at home. many you ev if you start in manhattan, the first thing you hit is the bronx. if you keep going north, the next thing you hit is westchester county, new york with great towns. you'll hit yonkers and new r rochelle but keep going and you'll get to a place called bedford and bedford, new york is pretty. i have been there. it's a nice part of the state of
new york. it's a nice part of the country. bedford also has interesting historic sites. it's got a place called stepping stones, this home. this is the preserved home of bill w. if you're in aa or know anybody that's ever been in aa, you know what bill w. means including the fact it's the last initial. bill wilson was the founder of alcoholics anonymous and his home is preserved in bedford, new york. it's a national historic site. not far from there is the massive bedford hills kregs correctional facilities. i used to work on prison reform in a previous life. it's the only maximum security women's prison in the new york state corrections system. bedford was the focus of national and international attention in 2009 when then libyan dictator gaddafi made
plans to travel to the u.n. general assembly. he sent a large advance party to pitch him a tent on the grounds of an estate in bedford, new york. literally, they were going to pitch a tent on the lawn in that estate and they planned to stay in that tent while he was in new york visiting the u.n. general assembly. that was the plan until town officials in bedford decided they were not into that idea at all and sent somebody from the town to inspect like the extension cords and the other little temporary electrical connections they had set up to service gaddafi's would be living quarters in that tent on the lawn and the town upon inspecting those electrical facilities issued a stop work order. so even though the libyan government rented that place for him, the libyan dictator gaddafi never ended up staying in that tent on that lawn at that estate in bedford, new york. but the specific location of
that weird three-day sort of small scale diplomatic crisis over gaddafi and his extension cords, the specific location of that in bedford, new york was a place called seven springs. that was the estate where gaddafi planned to stay on the lawn. at the time of that controversy, seven springs was owned and it is still owned today by president donald j. trump. and that tonight is where we get to the crime part of this story. the maybe crime part. or at least the crime question. this property in bedford, new york, seven springs, as you can see it's a big mansion. it's just over 200 acres. mr. trump bought the property in 1995. which trump bought it in 1995 he paid $7.5 million for it. and there is good evidence reliable public records evidence that that property, that silver -- or that seven springs
property has appreciated nicely over time. "the washington post" reports that by 2013, less than 20 years after trump first bought it in 1995, that property had more than doubled in value. it was assessed in 2013 at $18.9 million. nice. right? the local paper, the westchester county journal news said by 2017, the property was assessed even a little higher. it was assessed at $19.6 million. president trump and his federal financial disclosure form for last year, 2018, he didn't have to give a precise valuation for the property and those kinds of federal ethics forms, you have to give a range of value. when president trump filed his financial disclosure form last year, he said the value of that property in westchester county was in the range of 25 to $50 million. now, even $25 million is considerably more than what we know that property was assessed
at in terms of its value one year before, but, ah, what are you going to do? is value really? these things can be fudged a little bit. basically the same thing, ballpark figure. it's getting assessed at 19, $20 million within the last few years, he says he puts it at a range of 25 to $50 million. at least the range starts at $25 million. but just put it -- let's -- can we put that value up over time? we've done this on this little graph. remember, this is all for this one same property. as far as we know, there are no massive changes to this property over the time that trump has owned it. i mean, gaddafi did send his dudes to put up a tent and they had to take it down and go home. nothing really has changed. you can see the progression of the value. this is a happy real estate valuation story. you buy it for $7.5 million and by 2013 it's up to $19 million
and by 2018 you're somewhat p s plausibly saying it's worth 25 to $50 million. so that's the public record. that's where we thought we were on this. if you were at all interested in that particular donald trump property, this is what you would find in terms of the value of that property. but now, we as a country have got something quite new about that property and it the turns that sort of boring, vaguely, happy real estate valuation story into a suspensitaine susp and drama saga and in the constitutional confrontation between great power and american independent law enforcement because in his riveting day-long testimony yesterday, one of the things the president's long-time personal lawyer michael cohen made public was a short stack of financial information.
these are documents that were apparently among the materials that were seized from michael cohen's home and office when the fbi raided him last year to serve multiple search warrants on him. these documents were seized by the fbi and since been returned to mr. cohen by the government. he says in preparation for his testimony, he went through those boxes of returned material and he was thus able to hand over, among other things, these financial statements as part of his testimony yesterday. he then yesterday at his testimony explained what these statements were and used for and did it in pretty blunt terms. >> i'm giving to the committee today three years of mr. trump's personal financial statements from 2011, 2012, and 2013. which he gave to deutsche bank to inquire about a loan to buy the buffalo bills and to forbes.
these are exhibits 1 a, 1 b, and 1 c to my testimony. it was my experience that mr. trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes. >> i'd like to talk to you about the president's assets. since by law, these must be reported accurately on his federal financial disclosures and when he submits them for a bank loan. mr. cohen, you served for nearly a decade as then business president trump's personal attorney and so-called fixer. did you also have an understanding on the president's assets and how he valued those items? >> yes. >> to your knowledge, did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues?
>> yes. >> and was that done with the president's knowledge or direction? >> everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of mr. trump. >> you have provided this committee with copies of the president's financial statements or parts of them from 2011, 2012 and '13. can you explain why you had these financial statements and what you used them for? >> so these financial statements were used by me for two purposes. one, was discussing with media whether it was forbes or other magazines to demonstrate mr. trump's significant net worth. that was one function. another was when we were dealing later on with insurance companies, we would provide them with these copies so that they would understand that the premium, which is based
sometimes upon the individual's capabilities to pay would be reduced. >> and all of this was done at the president's direction and with his knowledge? >> yes, because whatever the numbers would come back to be, we would immediately report it back. >> and did this information provided to us inflate the president's assets? >> i believe these numbers are inflated. >> and of course, inflating assets in a newspaper poll to boost your ego is not a crime but to your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to a bank in order to help him obtain a loan? >> to your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> who else knows that the
president did this? >> ellen weisselberg, matthew calamari. >> today in the wake of this testimony, the daily best was first to report alan weisselberg will be summoned to testify to congress. the daily beast said he'll be called to testify before the house intelligence committee and elijah cummings said if you're looking for a guide as to who else may be summoned to testify in the wake of cohen's testimony, a pretty good predictive guide to anticipating those witnesses would be to read through the transcript and highlight every name that was mentioned as someone who could potentially provide useful information. one of the potentially provocative developments is that one or more of the president's adult children will be included in the list. we shall see. even before anybody else is called in for questioning in the wake of cohen's testimony, cohen has already handed over exhibits and documents including these checks from president trump
himself and from the trust that controls the president's businesses, the checks reimbursing cohen for payments he made ahead of the election and for which he's about to go to prison because they were illegal campaign contributions made as part of a felony campaign finance scheme, but there is also those 2011, 2012, 2013 financial statements which cohen told congress had been used for multiple purposes. he said they were used to convince a magazine to call president trump a billionaire, try to convince a magazine to give the president a higher net worth than he actually had. and i mean, what do you do with that? pitiful, vein and sad are some of the lesser dwarves in this story but lying to a magazine to make you richer than you are, is nobody's idea of a crime. the serious issue is cohen testified these documents were submitted to insurance companies to get trump's premiums reduced on his insurance policies and
significantly he said these financials were submitted to a bank, specifically to deutsche bank to try to get himself a cash loan. what may have been as large as a billion-dollar cash loan to try to buy a professional football team. and now here is why this is a problem for us as a country because go back to trump's big house in westchester county, new york, right? up by the maximum sex cucurity women's prison. put up the graph showing the value. these are based on public documents. the purchase price and his ethics filing about the value of that property and remember, he gave the range 25 to 50 and over time you can see the property appreciating in value, starting at $7.5 million up to $19 million, by last year, up to this range of 25 to $50 million. okay. what michael cohen gave congress
yesterday was a set of financial statements from president trump and the trump organization. including one statement from 2012, which michael cohen said was used to apply to a bank to try to get a large cash loan. on that 2012 financial decoloration,, th decoloration, that same property in westchester county that is valued at $7.5 million, $19 million, $20 million, maybe that range of 25 to 50. in his 2012 financial statement to get a big cash loan from a bank, president trump valued that same property at $291 million. really? that is hilarious. what could possibly explain what they thought they discovered an amazing diamond mine there in 2012 but then by actually somebody spilled a
cooler full of ice cubes? how do you go from $291 million one year and the next year your property drops in value by $272 million. back to what it used to be. if you want to compare apples to apples, right? with president trump's own assessment of the value, it literally went in 2012 from $291 million to last year, 25 to 50. i mean, that's just his own assessment of the value of that property. that's ridiculous. he's going from $300 million to maybe $50 million. when nothing changed at the property? and if that was just about making himself appear super rich for for"forbes magazine" that wd be vein and small and lying and sad but not what he testified what these financials were used for. >> mr. trump's personal financial statements from 2011,
2012, and 2013, which he gave to deutsche bank to inquire about a loan when we were dealing later on with insurance companies, we would provide them with these copies. these documents and others were provided to deutsche bank and one occasion where i was with them in our attempt to obtain money. >> now, i am not a lawyer. statistically speaking, neither are you, i'm guessing. but even just as people who are occasionally watching the news during the donald trump presidency, we all can recognize that what's being described here is potentially a felony, right? for one thing, we've seen the president's campaign chairman convicted of this as a felony. remember the financial institution scheme in the paul manafort indictment? you know, when he was still being charged with manafort and gates? remember that.
manafort, gates and others attempting to execute a scheme and defraud money and property by means of fraud and representations and promises from banks and other financial institutions. as part of the scheme, they repeatedly provided and caused to be provided false information to banks and other lenders. they defrauded the lenders in various ways including lying about manafort's and the income and debt and provided doctored financial documents. at a time when manafort's statement should have shown less than $400,000, they instead told the bank he had $4.5 million in net income. lying about that so that he could get a loan. and lying to the bank so that he could get a loan, lying to the bank about his real financial situation so he could get a loan, that's part of the reason paul manafort is going to jail. it's also part of the reason michael cohen is about to go to jail, right? remember the criminal information outlining michael cohen's crimes.
he willfully and knowingly made statements for the action of a financial institution in connection with an application for a home equity line of credit, which is a line. quote, cohen made false statements to bank three about his true financial condition. do you remember the hearing, the day that cohen is there giving his allocution in court? the judge interrupts michael cohen. the judge makes sure he understands that he's pleading guilty to bank fraud and why. the judge says, quote, well, you knew it was false and falsely depicted your financial condition. did you not? the defendant michael cohen, yes, your honor. you omitted those statements for the purposes of influencing action by a financial institution. defendant, michael cohen, yes, your honor, yes, i understand this is felony bank fraud to lie to a bank for the purpose of getting a loan and lie to them about my financial situation. if all you have been doing for the last couple years is occasionally watching the news
about this administration, we see people go to prison on the regular and have this testimony under oath of the president's long-time personal lawyer. we got his testimony and got some documentary evidence to back it up, which would seem to indicate that the president potentially has done the same kind of bank fraud that his campaign chair and lawyer are already going to prison for. i mean, what cohen testified to and what these documents showed appears to be the wild over inflation of the value of an asset, right? $7 million house is somehow now a $291 million house. according to a financialsubmite
for the purpose of getting a loan. according to michael cohen, it was submited to one for reducing insurance premiums, lying to a financial institution for the purpose of influencing their behavior can be financial felony fraud. "the washington post" put this set of facts to a commissioner of the securities and exchange commission who is a law professor at stanford, he told them quote, michael cohen's testimony opens another line of inquiry. into bank fraud. and, you know, the devil is in the details and context is everything. the post reports that in one copy of this same 2012 financial statement that they obtained independently, trump's account table -- accountants had a long disclaimer. if this was potentially going to be investigated as possibly felony bank fraud, you need to see what the bank actually received from trump, how these materials were presented by trump and his business and for
what purpose. as the former commissioner put to determine whether fraud occurred require as careful look at the text to the statutes but documents submitted. the question is whether there were a knowing attempt. the bank in question is deutsche bank. did president trump try to get a loan by adding a quarter of a billion dollars to the value of his house up by the prison pretending it was made on hills of gold or sitting on a diamond mine one year? publicly, we don't know. there were reports december of 2017 that federal prosecutors from the special counsel's office subpoenaed deutsche bank for details with their relationship with president trump and saying that bank was one of the great reported presidential freakouts concerning the special counsel's office including what was reported by "the new york times"
to be the first concerted effort by president trump to fire special counsel robert mueller, specifically in response to those reports that mueller's office subpoenaed deutsche bank. it's not clear whether or not the special counsel's office ever be subpoena deutsche bank and we know democrats tried to elicit information about their relationship with trump over the past couple years. republicans at the time were in control of both houses of congress and not interested in pursuing lines of inquiry themselves and deutsche bank therefore don't have to respond to any of the requests. now, though, the democrats control the house and today the chair of the financial services committee, maxine waters says they are just know being corporative. they had not been, she says now they are being corporative and handing over documents at the
request of her committee. so here is my question. this thing involving this property in westchester county, the testimony by cohen about financial -- the financial statements concerning that property and what he says those financials were used for. that $200 million thanks financial statement he says was used to get a loan and try to affect trump's insurance rates. this is basically one little case study of the potential criminal exposure we're caught to when it comes to this president there is lots of things that we could have chosen and told you a story like this about the president, right? let's pick this one about the valuation of this property for the purposes of illustrating the question we're in as americans because these financial statements have been handed over by cohen to congress. they are now in the hands of congress. we believe these financial statements have been through the hands of the fbi and therefore
they have been seen by federal prosecutors. we've now got cohen's blunt under oath assertions as to what those financial documents were used for if deutsche bank is handing over documents to the congressional committees then presumably we'll know if michael cohen was right in his testimony yesterday. and if these documents were in fact used in a loan application to deutsche bank or used with insurance companies or any other financial institutions. clearly, there appears to be something wrong with the 2012 financial statement. clearly, that is not a $291 million property as nice as it may seem. i say it's not a $291 million property not because i can tell at a glance when a property is worth, i say that because that's what donald trump says. trump doesn't claim it's a $291 million property, not when he knows people are watching. when he filed his financial disclosure form in 2018, he said it was worth 25 to $50 million. how is it worth $291 million in
2012? i mean, if that quarter billion-dollar magic trick he tried to play with that financial statement is in fact, evidence of felony bank fraud, as far as i can tell, we're well within the ten-year statute of limitations for such a crime. as a country, now, we have all just been shown evidence of this potential felony bank fraud by the president. and we know congress has it and we believe federal prosecutors have it. but here is the question. who does what with that information? i mean as a country it's not cool to know about the felony. in the wake of michael cohen's testimony and exposure for the president. this financial fraud thing is one of them.
it's about russian interference and cooperation with the interference the relevant prosecutors for now would seem to be the prosecutor's at the special counsel's office and criminal expose sure may be about the campaign finance felonies for which michael cohen is going to prison. those felonies have been prosecuted by the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. if the president is also criminally exposed for other garden variety financial fraud, say the kind of bank fraud that manafort and co-when were conv t convicted of this past year, that could be at the center of the bull's eye. that's the bread and butter white financial crime prosecutors bring to court every darn day. i mean, everything from high profile cases like world com, that case where that company over valued itself, right, to every day crooks like michael cohen trying to get his home equity line of credit,
misstating his financial status to the bank to do it, that's what they do. those cases come up every day. big cases, small cases, cases people care about, cases people don't. we spoke to the former deputy chief of the u.s. attorney's office, june kim today from sdny and he said in fact, this is the day and day outrun of the mill prosecutor work of the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. he told us today quote, people who inflate their financials, for example, to obtain a mortgage and who deflate their financials for example to pay less taxes, those people are engaging in very common schemes and have been prosecuted regularly. if trump organization documents and deutsche bank documents, if that evidence paints a compelling, at least, public picture, that the president appears to have engaged in pretty clear instances of financial crimes, financial
felonies, financial fraud schemes of the kind that are routinely prosecuted against all sorts of people and companies and entities in this country, well, who prosecutes it when it comes to him? who prosecutes it when it comes to him? would it be an act of bravery or an act of sort of political high wire walking in order to prosecute it when it comes to him? if somebody is going to try to prosecute him for this stuff, when? and where and how? because even with just what we've seen publicly, it sort of feels like we are there. f fes ellike we are there. they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs... like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that.
mental health...hiv. patients with serious diseases are being targeted for cuts to their medicare drug coverage. new government restrictions would allow insurance companies to come between doctor and patient... and deny access to individualized therapies millions depend on. call and tell congress. protect medicare patients. stop cuts to part d drug coverage. i found a companyeans to who believes in me.rt. they look out for me. and they help me grow my career. at comcast it's my job to constantly monitor our network, prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work at the network operations center for comcast.
we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. our first guest tonight wrote the public relations that defined the office of the special counsel. in fact, that's the document that allowed for robert mueller to be appointed special counsel last year and you know what happened since then. former acting solicitor general, the man that wrote the n regulations is neal. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> the reason i wanted to have
you here tonight is i feel like we are as a public, as a country are in this moment where we're now seeing a lot of evidence, a lot of serious allegations about potential criminal behavior by the president and we're all taught to believe that when that happens, impeachment proceedings follow. if there is compelling evidence that a president committed crimes while in office but in this case there is this law enforcement aspect of it outside of the i'm peop of the impeachment process and i want to know should people expect there will be a law enforcement response to potential illegal behavior of the president or is that off the table? >> i think they should. the big thing yesterday is almost cultural. it's not squarely legal. what i mean by that and i'm as guilty as anyone. i keep thinking mueller, mueller, mueller. mueller is the center of everything. wh what we saw with cohen and the real estate deal shows there is other investigations. there is a lot of potential law
breaking in the southern district of new york with campaign finance and now tax and bank fraud allegations and congressional committees. you got all of those different things. so it's a mistake to just think of mueller. now, then you ask is there ever going to be some sort of justice? i want to sound optimistic on this. i feel like, you know, sometimes i get disspirited in the like but the genius of the american system was on display yesterday. if you think about it, cohen testifying against a sitting president of the united states in most countries authoritarian countries, he would have never been able to do that. you and i wouldn't be able to have this discussion about the president committing crimes and we have now because of our founders multiple over lapping investigations, congress, the executive branch through u.s. attorneys offices and the special counsel and now we have states, as well. so you got all of these different nodes and because of that, i am optimistic ultimately
that justice will be done. >> let me ask you. let's talk a little bit about the san narcotscenario i laid o. the bank investigation and not because it's the most important thing to know about this president but it seems like a discrete thing where justice might happen. let's say that those financial documents that cohen provided in keeping with his testimony, they were provideed to a bank to try to get a loan and documents from deutsche bank or testimony from deutsche bank backs that up and indicates that a serious financial fraud may have be committed and i say serious because there are some reports from the president himself that the bank loan he might have been looking for may been for as much as a billion dollars. that's the size of bank fraud for which there could be significant penalties. if that committee decided we want to make a criminal referral for this prosecution, what would happen? >> i love this example because, you know, look, this is not the biggest crime in the world and
this is not the biggest real estate deal in the world but it's a representative example of what trump is alleged to have done and there is so many others but it's a really good one and good one in two ways. one, there is potential criminal activity we're talking about and i'll go through that and second, there is judgment issues. first of all, you showed the graph $291 million down to $50 million. look, if i had to bet on anyone that could run something down from 291 to 50, i'd bet on trump. you know, he's trying to do that to the country. i think bank fraud, the supreme court just three years ago in the shaw case said bank fraud is a serious crime and actually a lot easier to prove than a lot of the other fraud felonies in our criminal statutes and here if he was giving this information to a bank for the purposes of getting a loan, it's classic straight bank fraud and as you showed from the former acting u.s. attorney for the southern district, that's what people get prosecuted for all the time. >> if it would go to the justice
department and say this goes to sdny, you're allowed to pursue this or does the attorney general stop that, catch it and effectively kill it because it pertains to the president? >> so the attorney general could kill it. our constitutional system is one that reposes for better or worse the prosecution power, the federal prosecution power in the attorney general. now you could have remedies against the attorney general including impeachment but that is, there is one other big thing, don't forget the states and localities. the bank fraud has counter parts in new york state and other states and localities, as well and there, the attorney general of the united states cannot stop such a prosecution or investigation. >> former acting solicitor general of the united states. it's been too long. we'll be right back. stay with us. n too long we'll be right back. stay with us liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner?
oh. well, we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance, because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. [ loud crash ] yeah. he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
♪ did you know you can save money by using dish soap to clean grease on more than dishes? using multiple cleaners on grease can be expensive, and sometimes ineffective. for better value, tackle grease with dawn ultra. dawn is for more than just dishes. it provides 3x more grease cleaning power per drop, which cuts through tough kitchen messes, pre-treats laundry stains, and even tackles grease build-up on car rims. tackle tough greasy messes around your home, and save money with dawn ultra. brand power. helping you better. parts of me i didn't even know. i find out i'm 19% native american, specifically from the chihuahua people. what?! that's... i find that crazy.
it traces their journey in the mid-1800s from central mexico to texas. learning about the risks they took for a better life... ...it gives me so much respect and gratitude. it just shed so much light in my past that i never even would've known was there. 20 million members have connected to a deeper family story. order your kit at ancestry.com. one day, i found a lump on my right breast. in a small town, we don't have a health center on every corner. it would take three to four weeks to be seen. so i called planned parenthood, and they got me in that day. the trump-pence administration just issued a new policy blocking access to care at planned parenthood which could have a devastating impact on millions of people nationwide. had i have waited a day, i would have had stage iv cancer. planned parenthood saved my life. text titlex to 22422 to learn more.
he has obviously had three very long days. he'll return on march 6th for additional testimony and i think we all feel it was a very productive interview today where he was able to shed light on a lot of issues that are very core to our investigation. >> yesterday was michael cohen's testimony in public, but today he was testifying again, this time behind closed doors. house intelligence committee took testimony from cohen today. it was cut a little shorter than we might have expected but
afterwards, the committee's chairman told reporters that that's because cohen is coming back for another round next week, wednesday of next week. the week after that, he also said the committee will call in trump associate felix sater on march 14s for a partially closed, which means partial open hearing, march 14th. felix sater. we also learned today that the house intelligence committee plans to call the trump organization alan weisselberg to get testimony from him. we also have reports that gulp, the president's adult children, donald junior and ivanka trump, they should not be surprised if they, too, get called before congress sometime soon with anybody else who michael cohen named in his testimony yesterday before the oversight committee. lawmakers appear to be serious and quick about following up and getting in additional witnesses after everything cohen said yesterday. so if michael cohen said your name yesterday, you should be watching your inbox.
michael cohen's legal advisor lanny davis who you saw sitting just over cohen's shoulder throughout his testimony yesterday will be our guest next. stay with us. be our guest next stay with us (girl) nooooooooooo! (man) nooooo! (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper.
misleading statements. say it again in '98 when it was drawn up against bill clinton and efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and ill paid the discovery of evidence. counseling witnesses to lie. it's against the law and also documented in the history books more than once as grounds for impeachment against a sitting president, which means if you are the president or perhaps one of the president's lawyers, you might have had some alarm bells going off given what michael cohen just said to congress. >> on page 5 of your statement, you say and i quote, you need to know that mr. trump's personal lawyers reviewed and edited my statement to congress about the timing of the moscow tower negotiations. who were those attorneys? >> jay -- from the white house? >> yes. >> jay and abby low.
>> do you have a statement? >> i can try to get that for you. >> having the original statement means you can compare it to what he delivered which will tell you what the president's lawyers advised him to change. gulp. joining us now is lanny davis, michael cohen's legal advisor, mr. davis, i really appreciate you being here tonight. i know you've been having a busy week. >> first of all, this is the second time, rachel, my first out of the box after intense michael cohen experience is your show, so maybe we'll go for a third one. >> maybe we'll make this a tradition. let me ask you about the intensity of mr. cohen's experience right now. we saw he spoke with the house intelligence committee today behind closed doors but then they announced he's coming back next week. had that been the original plan or was that change made today? >> it was not the original plan. in a way, michael was more effective today than he even was yesterday when he exceeded all of our expectations in working
with him because today new information was developed that really could be game changing and chairman schiff praised him for honesty and forthrightness and the development of this information is the reason he's coming back next wednesday. >> obviously, you can't tell us in detail about the nature of the testimony, that's why it was behind closed doors but in general terms when you say new information, is this core to the russia investigation or kinds of things he talked about in detail yesterday? >> i would say it's not core to the russia investigation but mr. trump has missed the big picture. there is plenty of evidence of a conspiracy to collude with russia. but this is about lying and obstruction evidence and i think
that the trump white house and mr. trump himself doesn't seem to have read the definition of obstruction of justice or of sur perjury and that's about the best i can tell you. it's pretty explosive. >> on the issue of potentially perjury, i played that short segment back where mr. cohen had the back and forth with jackie spear and she asked if he would be able to provide the initial first draft of the letter he wrote to the intelligence committee in 2017 that was the basis of his guilty plea he provided false information to congress. how should we understand the importance of that and what mr. cohen was offering? >> thank you for asking because if congresswoman spear hadn't asked that question yesterday i couldn't respond because of the ground rules of an intelligence committee briefing but yes, there will be an additional amount of information comparing the first draft that michael
wrote and the reiterations called red lines that a collective group of lawyers called members of a joint defense agreement. and then the final iteration contained false statement not only by michael, that he did know russian moscow tower activity after the iowa caucuses. and let me just tell you one example. so donald trump would have a rally after the iowa caucuses the campaign begins, as we all know. and he'd be at a rally telling everybody no russia, no discussions, no collusion, no russia. and his rally crowd would cheer and believe him. within a few minutes he'd be walking out of that rally and he would turn to michael and say so what's going on in russia? what's going on in moscow? it was that blatant. and that much is in the public record and there will be more developed next wednesday at the intelligence committee. >> mr. davis, can you stick with
us for just one second? i have a clarification i want to ask you on that specific point and one other thing i want to ask you. can you stick with us for a moment? >> absolutely. >> lanny davis will be back with us in just a moment. stay with us. in just a moment. stay with us focus, to do whatever it takes, use every possible resource, to fight cancer. and never lose sight of the patients we're fighting for. our cancer treatment specialists share the same vision. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. and these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. expert medicine works here. learn more at cancercenter.com. appointments available now.
included with many medicare plans. call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers.com (woman) (man) what shoroad trip.with it first? (woman) yes. (woman) off-road trip. (couple) [laughter] (couple vo) whoa! (man) how hot is the diablo chili? (waitress) well. you've got to sign a waiver. [laughter] (ranger) you folks need bear repellent? (woman) ah, we're good. (man) yes. (vo) it's a big world. our new forester just made it even bigger. (woman) so what should we do second? (vo) the 2019 subaru forester. the most adventurous forester ever.
all of you. how you live, what you love. that's what inspired us to create america's most advanced internet. internet that puts you in charge. that protects what's important. it handles everything, and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. back ws now is lanny davis, who's an attorney for michael cohen. mr. davis, thank you again. yesterday after your client's testimony one of the president's lawyers, jay sekulow, put out a flat denial, saying that neither he nor any lawyer working for the president had advised
michael cohen that he should lie to congress about the duration of the trump tower moscow project. i just wanted to try to clear up with you any ambiguity about what mr. cohen is alleging in that regard. when he says he got et cetera a edits and a review from white house lawyers about his testimony that later was the basis of his guilty plea for providing false information to congress, is he saying that white house lawyers advised him to give false testimony to congress? >> no, i don't think he's saying that anything is explicit. i think the way he reminds everyone is that when you work for mr. trump or you're around mr. trump as an attorney or an adviser he speaks in code. just as you heard me say, when he says no russia, no collusion, no deals, and five minutes later he's on his way to his car and he says what's happening in moscow? he gives people the signal using codes, what he wants. and then it's carried along and by the time it reached the final draft the absolute lie that
everybody knew was a lie including mr. trump is that he did nothing after the iowa caucuses because that's when the campaign began. and that's for sure everybody knew it was a lie. and he was in the oval office and spoke to mr. trump. and he was given a good job even though people knew it was untrue. my question for tonight, and let's not forget the check for $35,000 that was a specific installment on the hush money plan that was misdescribed, in fact lied about as a retainer agreement when the prosecutors in the federal government said there was no retainer agreement. that check was signed by an incumbent president of the united states paying hush money to an adult film star in order to avoid having the american people know he was doing that three days before the election. that is a felony. that's an implementation of a
conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. so this issue of his lying about the statement to congress is very vague because it involves using codes like henry ii said will no one rid me of this grievous priest and his knights ten minutes later, or sometime thereafter, cut off the head of the archbishop of canterbury. now, would anybody say that henry ii ordered that murder? no. but would a jury convict henry ii for a conspiracy to murder someone? i know that this is probably the first time, rachel, you've had anyone refer to henry ii on your show. but that was a code. and michael and everybody working for trump knows his codes and follows those instructions. and that's what happened. >> lanny davis, attorney for michael cohen. mr. davis, i really appreciate you taking the time tonight, especially i know the demands on your time right now. thank you for being here. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. chel >> we'll be right back stay with us welcome to our busy world.
where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. that's why, at bp, we're working to make energy that's cleaner and better. we're producing cleaner-burning natural gas. and solar and wind power. and wherever your day takes you... we have advanced fuels for a better commute. and we're developing ultra-fast-charging technology for evs.. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. so we can all keep advancing. so why not bundle them with esurance and save up to 10%? which you can spend on things you really want to buy, like... well, i don't know what you'd wanna buy because i'm just a guy on your tv. esurance. it's surprisingly painless. peoplwith fitness, friends diabetes and the pill that starts with "f." farxiga, along with diet and exercise helps lower a1c in adults with type 2 diabetes. although it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. do not take if allergic to farxiga. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include rash,
swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. stop taking and seek medical help right away. tell your doctor right away if you have red color in urine, or pain while you urinate or a genital area infection since a rare but serious genital infection may be life-threatening. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. other serious side effects include dehydration genital yeast and bacterial infections in women and men, urinary tract infections, low blood sugar, and sudden kidney problems. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis, which is serious and may lead to death. ask your doctor about farxiga and visit farxiga.com for savings. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
well, that does it for us tonight. doesn't it feel like this week has already been 42 days long? no, wait, there's more. we will see you again tomorrow night. right now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. and i have some material from yesterday's hearing that i'm going to be using tonight because as we said last night there was just too much for one hour of coverage last night. >> tell me about it. i know. >> and so yesterday's hearing will continue in this hour tonight. but we also have a lot of new news for tonight, including emily jane fox's astonishing reporting that what has been called the smoking gun in yesterday's hearing almost didn't get into the hearing. she's going to tell us where that check came from with donald trump's signature on it. >> my favorite moment was that congressman from louisiana being like where are these boxes? where is this box of treasure? why haven't these things been handed over