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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  March 1, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PST

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more trump insiders, including the president's inner circle. who is next in the hot seat and how damaging could that be for the president? she was in trump's inner business circle for a long time and now a former trump organization executive joins me to weigh in on cohen's testimony. hit list. freshman democrat alexandria ocasio cortez threatens to put colleagues in her own party. has she gone too far? let's start with michael cohen. trump's son, donald jr. is expected to speak at any conference known as cpac. thanks to michael cohen, a dam has burst open with possible
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leads for democrats. months upon months of investigations currently being scheduled. the house intelligence committee has cohen back again next wednesday. the following week, a business associate closely connected today trump tower moscow. they're likely to call a name you'll get to know very well over the next weeks and months, allen weisselberg. house oversight also likely to call weisselberg. other witnesses include donald trump jr., ivanka trump and more. at least six different committees are investigating trump's life about the presidency. garrett haake joins me, can we start with don jr.'s speech? what are we expecting here? >> reporter: i think we expect to hear a robust defense of his father. don trump jr. was on twitter all
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day during the open michael cohen hearing on wednesday. live tweeting it and pointing out numerous instances of what he said were lies from michael cohen. i don't know if that's the kind of thing he's going to choose to engage in directly on his own without being asked about it. he has always been one of the most vocal defenders of his father. mike pence is on the stage behind he. he's been defending the trump administration and the trump agenda, what they've accomplished, what they'd like to accomplish. donald trump jr. will come out next. he'll appear in video from liberty university and defend donald trump the man and i have every reason to believe it will be a fiery speech. >> let's go back across the river to your day job, which is on capitol hill and talk about the overall strategy at these haer hearings. if you listen to what happened at cpac so far you'd think no trouble at all. democrats obviously see it differently. >> reporter: that's right. you saw this towards the end of the michael cohen hearing on wednesday where democrats started to lay the predicate for what they would do next.
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you saw members of congress asking for specific names of specific people who might know more information about the things that michael cohen had already brought up. who could they call next? you named some of them. we need felix sader will appear in an open hearing in just a few weeks. democrats are following the breadcrumb that were left behind and pursuing them into other hearings. you're not hearing democrats use the i word. nancy pelosi, democrats in leadership are trying to stay away from that issue. republicans on the other hand are talking quite a bit about the possibility that democrats are using these hearings to lay the groundwork for impeachment of this president. they're using it as a political tool to keep their base very much in line behind this president. democrats are holding off so far. you wonder how long that lasts.
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>> garrett haake, so we can't be far off from -- well, no, they just seem to be applauding in the middle of the speech by the vooi vice president. let me bring in a former u.s. attorney and a staff writer for the atlantic. one of the big things to come out of the cohen hearings is that we're not talking about russia anymore. this is the washington post take on it. quote, multiple democrat led house committees are pledging to investigate not only trump's campaign ties to russia, which are also the subject of robert mueller's hearing, but other matters democrats say were ignored under gop control. it seems the president got a lot more publicly exposed on a lot more fronts this week. >> sure. the congress is roaring back to life when it comes to the separation of powers.
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it was sleeping for the first two years. i think to the extent to which the doj guidance forbidding the indictment of a sitting president holds, this is crucial for accountability. we're not just talking russia, which is in mueller's camp, but we're talking potential bank fraud, tax fraud, insurance fraud. witness tampering. obstruction and conspiracy potentially relating to what the southern district of new york has already identified mr. trump as being involved in. mr. cohen mentioned that discussions of repayment for his money paid to stormy daniels, hush money payment actually happened in the white house itself. so i think this is all for sure valid inquiry and vital i think for our three branched system of government to withstand this process into the future. >> and to all of this, there was an interview with president trump last night on sean
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hannity. let me play you a little part of that. >> i can tell you personally he said to me, at least a dozen times, that he made the decision on the payments and he didn't tell you. >> yeah. >> told me personally. >> he did. and he made the decision. and remember this, he's an attorney. whatever decision he makes, he's supposed to rely on an attorney to make a decision. >> natasha, is what's going on here, he's relying on the my lawyer made me do it defense. >> you know how sean hannity knows that is because sean hannity was a michael cohen as well. that's something that didn't get brought up in the hearings the other day. it's implausible. a lawyer, even michael cohen who is not necessarily the best lawyer in the world is not going to do something without his client's express approval. and donald trump being the control freak he is would not have been pleased if michael cohen went out and made this $130,000 payment to a woman who was claiming to have an affair with the president and covering it up. the fact that he brought the
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receipts, the fact that he had the check that donald trump wrote him while he was president in august of 2017, just shows that we don't have to take michael cohen's word for any of this, really. he has evidence. he has tapes as we've seen. he recorded his conversation with the president when he was discussing paying back, you know, the money that he was owed in order to, you know, silence stormy daniels. so with all of that in mind, i really don't think we can look at michael cohen in a vacuum. there are a whole bunch of other corroborating witnesses here. he has, you know, a check that was written by the president, why would the president reimburse him if he wasn't on board with it? >> we just had a conversation with somebody at cpac about, well, this check. if that, indeed, shows that the president was involved r , he l about it. would it change your opinion?
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the opinion from this guy is he's trying to do what he said he was going to do. in many cases he's accomplishing what he said he's going to do. that's not important to me. having said that, is the republican party ready to spend the next couple of years with their main agenda being defending the president. you can make an argument that didn't work out so well back in november. >> it didn't work out in november and we learned that the president can't defy political gravity. republicans have made a cost benefit analysis. they have built into the cost of their investment into president trump the fact he's an unsavory character who has cheated on his wife, who has skirted in business deals sometimes the letter of the agreements that he made. and possibly worse. but none of what we're learning from michael cohen, even if we decide to take him at face value as a credible witness, which is questionable, none of what we learned in the hearing this week surprised any supporter of president trump's.
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i think that's why you didn't see anybody really try to defend president trump during those hearings. and why his supporters out in the country are not interested in trying to defend him. because they already know this about him. but they are fine with this because they like everything else they're getting. when they look at the choice between him and a democrat in the white house, they will take him every single time. the choice is not between president trump and a republican they might like better that could be in the white house. in their mind it's between him and a democrat. i would add this about the investigations. now that there are vigorous capitol hill investigations coming from democrats in the house, it is possible that all of the things we're focusing on are not going to be what the president's biggest troubles are. when the republicans were investigating the benghazi terrorist attacks as few years ago, they were looking at hillary clinton for her actions during that period. and in that investigation stumbled upon an e-mail address they had never seen before which led them to her private server,
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which some might argue was her downfall in 2016. don't assume that what we're looking at now is going to be what democrats end up with. i think that's what the president needs to watch out for. >> and some things, obviously, that the special prosecutor knows and members of committees know that we don't know. natas natasha, after the hearing on thursday with the house intelligence committee and they were coming out, there were hints of other things because they want more people. they want to hear more from cohen. lanny davis goes on rachel maddow and says there's no damaging information that was revealed. listen. >> in a way michael was more effective today than he even was yesterday when he exceeded all of our expectations in working with him. today, new information was developed that really could be game changing. >> do we buy it or is he being an effective lawyer for his client? >> i think we've seen from the
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beginning that lanny davis and cohen himself have wanted to present cohen with somebody has extremely valuable information to new york prosecutors, the special counsel in order to get a lesser sentence to be seen as fully useful to these prosecutors. but i have no doubt that cohen behind closed doors probably did reveal significant information. the only thing is that he told congress under oath during his public hearing, you know, earlier this week he did not see first-hand evidence of russian collusi collusion. but i don't doubt when pressed behind closed doors he probably felt freer to expose a little bit more information perhaps about what he saw in the campaign. >> thanks to all of you, much appreciated. one big line of inquiry democrats are jumping on, jared
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kushner. "the new york times" say that president trump ordered his white house counsel to give his son-in-law a top secret security clearance, despite concerns of intelligence officials. and despite the promise of both the president and his family that they would not put their fi finger on the scale for jared. >> that will be up to general kelly. general kelly respects jared a lot. general kelly will make that call, i don't make that call. i'll let the general who is right here make that call. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> no special treatment. >> no. >> now in response to that story, which is partially confirmed by the washington post, sarah sanders told nbc news, quote, we don't comment on security clearances. let me bring back garrett haake. i understand you were able to talk with kellyanne conway. what did kellyanne have to say?
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>> reporter: there are two contemporaneous memos about this, one from general kelly when he was chief of staff and one from white house counsel. i asked straight away whether or not these memos exist, take a listen. is there a memo from john kelly opposing this security clearance for jared kushner? >> i've never seen that memo. i generally don't comment on security clearances. >> reporter: why would he tell these organizations he's not meddled in that process? >> you'll have to go back and see what the president said. he has the absolute authority to do that and he trusted jared kushner. >> reporter: bottom line that's not a no in regards to the existence of these memos. that's a fairly careful answer by someone who has not seen them and to try to stay as far away
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from that story. this is something that the president would have had authority to do if he so chose. but makes it strange, aside from the fact we're talking about family members working in the white house in the first place are all the times the president and those close to him denied it. that's where we are right now. it's pretty clear that the white house with the staff that exists there now, neither of the two men still work in the building, don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. >> let me go to ken. is any of this illegal as you heard from kellyanne conway and we've heard it from people around the president and the president himself. he has the absolute authority to do that? >> reporter: that is 100% true. that's a reminder of the power and authority we entrust in our presidents. it's their classified information. there's a whole bureaucracy to give people clearances but they can override it. they can declassify anything with a word. and so the question here really is why did donald trump not tell
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the truth about this and why did ivanka trump lie? the post is reporting that she pushed the president to override this. they don't want to portray the president's daughter and son-in-law getting special treatment. also is the derogatory information that was developed by jared kushner. two officials looked at jared kushner's clearances and denied it but was overruled. that official was acting on instructions from the president. but one important thing, the cia never did grant kushner that higher level of clearance for sensitive compartmented information. apparently donald trump was willing to overrule the white house bureaucracy but not the cia. >> so let me go back to
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something that congressman connelly said to me in the last hour which is i want to see those memos. is there anything that would keep them from getting those memos, ken? >> yes, potentially issues of executive privilege. and depending on where these memos are. is this a memo that john kelly has at his house or is it in the white house? the white house may exert executive privilege. it's harder for congress to get testimony from advisors to the president than to get documents that were written sort of pursuant to advice or decisions that the president is going to make. our system wants to allow the president to get free and unfettered advice. that said, look, the house oversight committee has a massive investigation set up right now to look into this whole issue. it wasn't just jared kushner. we reported that 30 other people had -- were granted clearances after career officials thought they shouldn't have them. that had never happened before in recent history in the white house. this is definitely an issue that congress will want to delve into. >> let me let you pick up on that, garrett.
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because oversight does indeed have this big investigation that they have going on. give us in a nutshell what the key things are they'll be looking at. >> reporter: well, look they've been looking at the way the executive operates for quite a long time. if i remember correctly, the original letters about security clearances were sent to the white house and signed by the panel's previous chairman,gowdy. this has drawn the attention of lawmakers for quite a while. congressional oversight can get into a lot of things that this administration does. around the folks who are closest to the president, folks who haven't been senate confirmed, folks who don't control a budget or have money they have to spend, it's a lot more difficult for congress to exert its authority. they don't have the same levers they can pull here. you know, we were -- we are inching towards a fight. it will happen at some point over the next two years, i guarantee you. one of these congressional committees issues a subpoena or demands testimony from someone at the white house who just
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refuses to show up. the congress cannot go down to the white house and drag jared kushner out there by his khakis. they need to get some compliance here and having this fight over an issue like this right now may not be something this congress wants to get to on the subpoena side if there's a way to compel testimony otherwise or get at this issue without having a knock down drag out fight first. >> i see over your shoulder that an interview with donald trump -- he's not there live, he's at liberty university. that has just begun. still to come, inside take. will longtime trump money man allen weisselberg turn on donald trump? why aoc is targeting her own party for potential primary challengers. record ones. more than 5,000 women have signed up to potentially run for office this year and in 2020.
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michael cohen will return to the hill next week. reaction to what cohen revealed this week during three days of testimony varies quite a bit. some believe michael cohen made history or believe his testimony will open a new phase of political turbulence for trump. others believe he did not move the needle on collusion. and the president echoing a lot of his supporters by saying that
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trump lied a lot. well, one former trump executive who saw the inner workings of the trump organization for 18 years says that while cohen is a liar, there was truth at the core of his testimony. former executive vice president of the trump organization and author of all alone on the 68th floor barbara ress joins me now. i want to start with the criticism by the president and others about michael cohen. he presented himself as a changed man, a good and decent man. you're not buying it? >> well, i'm not -- i mean, you know, he's a sleaze. you know, we've learned a lot about the way he operated. things he said to reporters. i hope he will change in time. he's not a changed man. >> yet in the story you wrote for the new york daily news, the headline is cohen's words ring true to me. let's start with the idea that trump didn't know anything about the trump tower meeting. >> impossible. >> because?
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>> because he knew of everything. i mean, you know, everybody that worked for him let him in on everything they were doing. even small things. and even the biggest executives, if they had something important, they went -- first of all, they got his approval to do it in most cases, unless it was really part of their job description. and they went over what they were going to do with him. he had got donald jr., who i don't think is in the highest echelon in terms of the higher echelon. i can't imagine he would take it upon himself to do so major without talking to his father. >> cohen said that trump never told him directly to lie. he told him things in code. is there a code, in your experience, and did trump always talk in code? have plausible deniably or did you ever have experience?
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>> you know what i want, you know what i mean. trump was famous for that. you'd go in something we can't do this. he would say this is what we're going to do and be the opposite and insist on it, send you away and you would try to do it. some cases it was a little bit questionable and sometimes it was 100% on the the up and up. look at what happened with comey. i don't think flynn should suffer too much. i think we should -- flynn shouldn't have such a hard time. lay off flynn, trump knee iw it comey knew it. sometimes he'd have to hit you over the head. he once asked me to lie for him. >> you said no? >> absolutely. >> there are a lot of questions about who the house democrats are going to focus on next. "the new york times" reports it could be allen weisselberg. he has been at the company for decades. he knows everything about the money. he was mentioned more than 20 times during his testimony. bloomberg wrote about weisselberg last summer.
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his importance to the president eclipsed his title. after more than 40 years, he's the only person not named trump who the president trusts with his money. he helps arrange his tax and with trump's sons oversees the trust that holds all the president's assets. what was your experience with mr. weisselberg? do you think he's someone who would defend the president, even at his own peril? >> my experience personally with allen was he was not there when i started with trump. when i did trump tower, he worked in brooklyn with fred. he was an accountant, paid the bills, collected the rents, that kind of thing. when i left trump and came back in about '87 i found allen to be installed in the trump organization office in new york. i met him, he was a nice guy. but he was basically the same thing. sent out the bills and he
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collected the debts and paid the bills. they had other people that did other kinds of financial deals. and allen was the kind of guy who called donald mr. trump and we all called him donald. i can see that over time that situation evolved and allen became more involved and he was trusted the number of people donald could trust fell away as he let important people go in his company. >> do you think if there is something that is found, do you think he's the person that would flip on trump? >> the better question is would he go to jail. i don't think i know anyone. i don't think anyone would go to jail intentionally for donald trump. i don't know the extent of what allen knows. but flip on him? i don't like that expression. i do think that allen will not lie under oath. >> it's a fascinating article
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you wrote in the daily news. i recommend it to people. thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. she's only been in office since january, but congresswoman ocasio cortez is calling major divisions in her own party. as she gone too far? party as she gone too far? ♪ feeling unsure? what if you had some help? introducing the new 2019 ford edge with the confidence of ford co-pilot360™ technology. the most available driver assist techonology in its class. the new 2019 ford edge
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donald trump jr. now speaking at cpac, the yearly gathering of conservative lawmakers and activists. i've just been told by folks in the control room that he said don't redact the mueller report, put it out there. we're going to see what else he has to say. some interesting stuff happening there. we've got other headliners set to speak during the three day event, including the president. we just heard from the vice president. as nbc reports this year, there is a new breakout star at the conference, congresswoman ocasio-cortez. conservatives united in their opposition to what they label socialist policies and more specifically her green new deal. like this dig from former white house aide gorka. >> that is why alexandria ocasio-cortez has introduced the
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green new deal. they want to take your pickup truck, they want to rebuild your home. they want to take away your hamburgers. this is what stalin dreamt about but never achieved. >> the freshman dem is reportedly creating a divide win her own party. she is threatening to put those voting with republicans on a list for a primary challenge. let's talk about all this stuff, david druker is still with us. lanny chen is director of domestic policy studies at stanford university. i'm sorry? okay. sorry. david, let's start with cpac. they're going to take our hamburgers away, really? "the washington post" points out
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josef stalin was pro hamburger. >> hamburgler party. >> look, they can go after the green deal, but it's a little extraordinary, they're going a little bit further than what she's calling for. you can criticize how it's been rolled out. but they're misrepresenting it. >> well, a little bit. but not exactly. never forget in electoral politics you take your opponent's weakest point and you embellish it. that is what we do in american politics when we're trying to win campaigns. i think that when republicans look at how 2020 is shaping up and knowing they are running with an incumbent who has flaws that they're trying to create a choice. they believe the best choice is donald trump and the policies he has presented. maybe not the way he's conducted himself. the policies he's pursued against an ambitious progressive democratic party, far more progressive and liberal than it
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has been in the past that used to shy away from the socialist label and say, come on, that's not fair. we are not socialists. many more progressives are willing to embrace the label. i think republicans see that as a path to electoral success. given that alexandria ocasio-cortez, the congresswoman from new york has had so far in such a short time so much influence on the presidential field, where you have candidates that want to be the next president endorsing a plan that she has put forward quickly without much investigation, i think that republicans feel like one, it's fair game to go after that. two, they believe that there may be electoral success there. >> i think you can certainly make the argument that it is a successful strategy with the base. is it going to help beyond that? >> i think it has the potential to. particularly if you take something like the green new deal or take a figure like ocasio-cortez and you set up a
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contrast as david was saying between where the president wants to go in policy and where the alexandria ocasio-cortez wing of the democratic party wants to go. i do think there is a sense in swing states amongst independent voters that the contrast between a set of policies that could be characterized as free market or free enterprise and a set of policies in the alternative that's characterized as socialist or deeply or very progressive, i think that kind of contrast does set up better for republicans than it does for democrats as you look at these independent and swing voters. >> chris, if you look at where democrats were successful in 2018 winning in suburbs across america that don't like president trump, these are not the most liberal voters of all time. i interviewed a lot of these voters on the trail. a lot of them told me their big problem with the republican party was trump. but if they're dealing in 2020
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with a choice between somebody who is particularly liberal versus a trump, the choice may not be as stark for them. the president may be able to win some of these people back. when you look at the democrats that are now in congress because of the dynamic in the midterm elections, a lot of them were seen as centrist and bucked the democratic party on key votes. i don't think the republican strategy should be dismissed, even though oftentimes when you're on defense you paint your opposition as extreme. >> that leads us to the other side. we understand that inside a meeting, there was a statement made by alexandria ocasio-cortez saying, look, you guys need to get on board. speaking to moderates. if you're not going to get on board we're going to see about primarying you. i asked a congressman about this in the last hour, here's what he told me. >> they're not used to what
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happens on the floor. and that's an education process. i went through it too as a freshman. and i think threats and intimidation are not the way to deal with colleagues. i think we need some quiet moments of discussion and persuasion and understanding as we move forward. >> is this shades of the tea party and do you think this is much ado about nothing? sometimes somebody gets out there, they have success, frankly a lot of these members who were elected were elected to go in and shake things up. that's what she thinks she's supposed to do? >> yeah, i do think the tea party is an apt comparison. what we're looking at is these natural divisions that happen within political parties. the republicans faced this sort of set of challenges back in 2010, 2011 when the tea party was just getting started around the issue of obamacare at the
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time. what you're seeing is a very similar dynamic i think within the democratic party, which is a battle for the heart and soul of the democratic party. is it going to be the progressive left led by alexandria ocasio-cortez, or is it a more moderate, more centrist brand of democratic politics? this is going to be a contest that's going to be at the forefront of the 2020 democratic presidential primary. this battle is not just a theoretical one. there's an actual outcome here that democrats need to be thinking about, which is who is their nominee going to be and what is that nominee going to stand for in terms of the politics of the left? is it going to be the far progressive left politics or something more moderate? >> thank you gentlemen, both, appreciate it. have a good weekend. otto warmbier's president firing back at president trump.
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who absolved kim jong-un with any culpability over his death. they say we have been respectful during this summit process, now we must speak out. kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son, otto. kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. no excuses or lavish praise can change that. this is what the president said in vietnam this week. >> i don't believe he knew about it. he felt badly about it. i did speak to him, he felt very badly. he knew the case very well, but he knew it later. he tells me he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word. >> joining me now david ignatius. your heart breaks for this family. >> the warmbier parents are furious and you can understand why. their son died so tragically. that video of him pleading for his release from north korea is
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still heart-rending. there is a quality about president trump, it's hard to understand this and it's what's angered the warmbiers where he seems to take the side of dictators in situations like this. i found his comments from hanoi about otto warmbier and kim jong-un's, in his words, lack of knowledge, so similar to his having taken the side of vladmir putin in the helsinki summit against his own intelligence agencies and advisors. it's just a very odd thing about president trump, troubling, and good for the warmbiers in calling him on it. >> yeah, you know, there are members of the republican party who look at this and say that's not okay. rob portman, who is from ohio, which is where the warmbiers are said we should never let north korea off the hook for what they did to otto. the blood of otto warmbier is on the hands of kim jong-un.
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i mean, what are they prepared to do about it? the president taking as truth the propaganda of literally a parade of murderous dictators. >> it's bizarre. it's clearly part of trump's style when he's in a negotiating embrace with a foreign leader. we've seen him do this with xi jinping, a dictator who rules china. he just kind of loses normal restraints and cautions and seems to take that person's side. my good friend, my friend, my friend has told me this, i trust my friend. and in this case because warmbier's death was so tragic. i think it really -- people feel upset, as the parents do, as these republican members of congress do. i suspect the president will back away from his comments. what's odd is that when warmbier first came home and then died,
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trump seemed furious about it. this was back in the fire and fury period when he was talking north korea all the time. once he moved into embrace my dear friend kim jong-un mode, it sure changed. >> and then i just want to say briefly that nikki haley, former u.n. ambassador say our hearts are with the warmbier family. you see that people have been close to this not be able to let it stand. >> i'd love to think that this is a moment where americans from both parties take these issues of human rights, the treatment of people by these authoritarian regimes more seriously. this happens all around the world. we should stand with americans and people fighting for their rights in these countries. not with the dictators.
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>> davalways good to see you. thank you. we'll come back with these record breaking wins by female candidates who are inspiring more women to run. means ♪ ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more.
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at panera, we treat soup differently. with vine ripened tomatoes, signature cheddar, simmered to perfection. with big flavors, not artificial ones. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be. we've got some really stunning new numbers on the year of the woman, part 2. after that extraordinary record-breaking number of women running for office in 2018, get ready for more to come.
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this is an off year, but look at all the seats up for grabs. many of the names on the ballot in 2019 in 20-plus states will again be women. and get this, a lot of those women are progressives running in red states, which sent us to indiana to meet two candidates. one of them campaigned so hard, she's already losing her voice. >> reporter: even in a packed room, she's hard to miss. she's 6'3" and fired up about running for city council. she's the vip guest for happy hour for young democrats. two other women candidates stopped by for moral support. >> is there moral support among the candidates? >> it's a sisterhood, it's alive and well. >> reporter: the 2018 wins are inspiring more women to become candidates. >> seeing women run for
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everything from town board to president, it's showing me that, you know, we can do this. >> reporter: and do this they are. at run for something, a group that recruits and trains young progressives like ally to run for state office, nearly 5,500 have signed up to run for election. >> women need to be ask to run for office seven times before they agree. >> where is men just dive in? >> oh, they sign up. the political system has not been super welcoming to women and people of color. >> reporter: to see how that's changing, we drove north from indianapolis to gary, indiana. >> change is here. and you're looking at it. >> reporter: ty atkins has returned to her hometown, inspired to run for city council and armed with an mba. >> ayanna pressley started off
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running for city council and now she's in congress. >> reporter: lots of women were watching. that run for something survey found women twice as likely as men to identify a role model as a reason to run. 60% cited friendship with another woman candidate or office holder. so while run for something trains candidates, it also connects them. ally has a 2-year-old son. and rfs has a facebook group just for parents. >> talking about everything from like what do you wear at an interview to, you know, what's the best method when you knock on the door and you have your kid with you. >> do you feel like this is the time that you're running at just the right time, because women are breaking through? >> running for office is a lot like having a kid, right? if you wait for the right time, you're never going to do it. when you feel the wind at your back with all these amazing women who have been elected, if it's not now, it's when. >> joining me now to talk about all this, an assistant professor of political science at rutgers
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universities and a scholar at the center for american women in politics, kelly ditmarr. and director of political program for sirius xm, zelina maxwell. kelly, you study this. does it surprise you that this survey found women need to be asked to run seven times and men just go for it? >> well, we know from our research that encouragement does matter more for women. we know encouragement makes a difference. women are rational decision makers and they've seen the hurdles that have been placed in front of women and specifically women of color. it's going to take more encouragement, it will take those folks who are in politics telling them, here is the path to success, for them to consider the cost worth it and worthwhile. i think what we saw in the last cycle is women saw a difference in that candidacy calculus. they kind of recalculated that
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the costs of not running were too high. and so the encouragement matter but also the political timing and the opportunity that was presented to them to make a change in office. the idea that they needed to be the ones at the table, not just advocating from the outside. and hopefully that does continue into this news cycle, because they're watching the women who won in 2018 make a real difference in congress and state legislatures across the country. >> and they're paying attention, zelina. you've written about gender equity, women feeling politics is not welcoming to me as a woman, as a person of color. do you feel we're at a change point? >> absolutely. donald trump becoming the president told women they can be anything. because he didn't have any qualifications for experience for that particular job. i think donald trump is basically the cure for imposter syndrome that many women feel. >> women said to me, if donald
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trump can be president, i can go on the city council. >> that i can be anything. in all seriousness, in 2016 there was a huge uptick in calls to emily's list. in terms of the women interested in running for office, pre-2016, 900 women called emily's list. post-2016, 20,000 women called and said, i'm interested in running for office. the more women you see run and succeed, the more women that will run in the future, because you see a possibility model for your success when you see other women go forward and win their races. >> we actually have a list of some of the other groups besides run for something. there are a lot of them that really work hard to help women to run. there are at least probably a dozen of them. most of them, it's very interesting to me, and it certainly is borne out by, kelly, the results that we've
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seen in congress and elsewhere, most of them are democratic organizations. do you have a sense of why that is? >> sure. this is a real problem if we want to see gender parity across parties. we're never going to get to 50% if we only do it on tboth sides of the aisle. the republican party doesn't have the infrastructure for women, there's not the financial infrastructure that we have with emily's list, there's not a training or recruitment structure. they don't define men's overrepresentation in the party as a problem that needs solving. they need to incentivize and recruit women. the republican party hasn't seen it as an imperative for them to win the votes they need. there's some people trying to change that but it's been a real struggle to make the case to the republicans and the party
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generally that they need to build that support infrastructure, particularly for women so you can see these numbers change. >> zelina, one of the findings of this stray was that for candidates of color, they cite significantly more challenge with fundraising and support from the establishment. what do we do about that? >> that's a key point, because that is the barrier for all candidates running for office, but particularly for women and people of color. the way you fix that is you get corporate money out of politics. you see a lot of 2020 candidates running on that plank. so i think that as we move away from, you know, the big money donors, i think that does open the floodgates of people of color and women running for office, because there isn't that financial barrier for entry. >> zerlina maxwell, kelly ditmarr, thank you so much. watch out for these candidates this year. that will wrap up this hour of "msnbc live." my colleague kristen walker takes over from here, hello, my friend. >> hello, my friend, very happy friday to you. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," one true
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thing. president trump comes out swinging at his former attorney michael cohen, calling him a liar and a fraud except on one major point. >> it was very interesting because he lied so much, he said no collusion. and it's funny that he lied about so many things, he might as well have lied about that too, but he said no collusion. all in the familiar. new reports president trump overruled his intelligence officials, giving his son-in-law jared kushner top secret security clearance, something the president and ivanka trump flatly denied. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues. but the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance and my husband's clearance. nice guys finish last. as the 2020 candidates lean further to the left, could joe biden's bipartisan nature hurt his chances in the crowded democratic primary race? >> the guy is a decent

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