tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC March 1, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PST
donald trump and his son-in-law lied about his security. the move worried west wing officials so much that two of them, chief of staff, john kelly and counsel don mcgahn wrote internal memos on the manner. jared kushner was rejected by two secure white house specialist after an fbi background check raised concerns of foreign influence on him. a supervisor approved the clearance. while this new reporting from the new york times confirmed by "the washington post." it was clear that trump was behind that reversal. that's not the story he told "the new york times" back in january. >> did you tell general kelly or
anyone else in the white house to over rule security officials? >> i don't think i have the authority to do that. i would not do it. jared is a good -- i was never involved with his security. i know from reading, i know there were issues back and forth about security for numerous people actually. i don't want to get involved in this stuff. it is not what first daughter and senior adviser to the president, ivanka trump, told abc news a couple of weeks ago. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> what were the problems early on? >> there were not any other than a backlog. >> so no special treatments. how do president trump and ivanka trump passed national
security. joining me, hans nichols and our national security reporter ken dilanian. and annie carney and former house intel staff, mica oyang. >> the new york times last night blew it wide open. donald trump did open that jared kushner get this clearance despite all of the concerns. how significant is this, ken? >> well, it is significant on a number of levels. one, there is a public policy issue here. career security officials flag concerns of jared kushner's background and his foreign entanglements. donald trump has cast that system aside. he has the legal right to do that. the other issue is he lied about it and instead of announcing i am going to by pass the bureaucracy and i am going to
grant my son-in-law a clearance. he was actually involved. congress wants to know more details and they'll get their hand ons t hands-on the memo that mcgahn and kelly wrote. this is another scandal at the trump's white house. >> what sort of concerns would they have? if there are concerns that he may have too many contacts with foreign officials, potentially nbs over saudi arabia, what would the nature of the concern be? >> a foreign government may have leverage over someone that would incline them to make policies or share secrets. when you look at the case of espionage, we have seen people with foreign financial ties, receiving money from foreign government, people who are deceptive and trying to hide things and people have a sense
ofgrandiosity. they think they are smarter than anyone else. jared kushner has all three of those characteristics and frankly so as the president. >> so annie, the president has denied it and ivanka trump has denied it. do we have any indication why they potentially could have been lying about their involvement of jared kushner's security clearance. >> that's one of the biggest question and abby lowell also lied about it. that's the biggest question raised here. the president does have the authority to give top secret authority clearance to anyone he wants. he could have said jared kushner is my guy, i am giving it to him. he has the authority to do that but he chose not to. why did they lie is a big question?
how are they going to get their story straight now? the house oversight committee said they may call all the people that michael cohen name checked in his testimony the other day, that included ivanka trump. if she's asked the same question in front of congress where you can't lie, it is illegal to lie. we need to see what happens next and if they continue in this story or if they change it. >> i am going to read a portion of the times article. the concern of mr. kushner is not known but the clearance had been held up. t andy, what else can you te annie, what else can you tell us? >> the president overruled
advice from his own and there were questions of kushner's family business tied to the government or business abroad. >> this goes back with problems of jared's clearance from the beginning. he failed to list meetings with russian officials, he claimed it was a mistake and he had to amend those forms. there has been a gray haze over jared kushner's dealing with foreign officials from day one here. >> and hans, the white house has responded to this. they said they don't comment on security stories, kushner's lawyer has responded. they say the security clearance official affirms kushner's security clearance was handled.
chris christie was asked about this in an interview a little earlier and listen to what he said. >> ordering the clearance is not problematic. that's the president's legal authority to do. the problem is they did not tell the truth. the president directly said in "the new york times," i had nothing to do with it. and ivanka said my father had nothing to do with my clearance or my husband's clearance. this is part of the problem of having family as official positions because it is hard to be objective. it is hard to be objective with the people that you are having thanksgiving dinner with. >> two people with whom they feuded with the white house can go public and give their version of events. that's don mcgahn and mr. kelly, the former chief of staff. both of them wrote memos so try
to subpoena and get those memos. there is nothing stopping congress from calling either don mcgahn or mr. kelly or have them before the committee and just tell us what happened. that's why these dynamics inside the white house of who was fighting with who becomes so important. you can expect a lot more hearing on this. >> pete, how is the intelligence community is going respond to something like this? how is the senate intelligence committee respond to something like this? this is career official giving them advise about an adviser, hold off, we don't think it is appropriate. we are not comfortable giving them this clearance and the president is waving that off and saying i don't care allegedly. >> the intelligence committee cares a lot of what the career professionals say more than the political officials. what's troubling here is there are normal rules that everyone including myself had to follow
when you fill out that form and you get granted a clearance, what the president is saying by doing this is there are one set of rules for everyone else and a different set of rules for his family. >> what could that possibly mean going forward and how does an intelligence community, there is so many different drifts in the community and this president, he goes off and says he does not believe the north korean dictator, kim jong-un, had anything to do with otto warmbier. that's just the latest and he believed vladimir putin over our intelligence community about whether or not north korea had icbm that were operational and could hit the united states. he continues to trust himself over everybody else and going forward, ken, what do you do next if you are facing this sort of relationship and this sort of
leader. >> one interesting thing, he did not over rule the cia. he was willing to over rule the white house official, but when it came to that high level of nci, the cia never granted that. our reporting till this day that kushner does not have it. you can only speculate why that is. one possibility that donald trump does not want to be in another fight with the cia. it is one thing to over rule white house speciecurity specias working for the white house is another thing of the high review of the cia. >> is there anything we are missing from this? >> i think there is this real question of what was the damage that was done? we have seen reports of foreign government trying to influence kushner and reporting that's sketchy whether or not he'll
share that. you have to get to the bottom of what was lost. we have not seen any assessment of the damage that could have been done as a result of granting this clearance. >> annie, finally to you, we know this because of contemporaneous memos. memos from everyone that deals with donald trump. this one came from his former chief of staff. >> that's right, everyone around him seems to be taping or writing memos or keeping track of time so they have a record of history of what really happens. i want to add one more thing of the context here, jared kushner, is probably more in power at this moment since the opening day of the administration. mulvaney, the chief of staff is the first of the three chiefs who has realized there is no point of going to battle with ivanka and jared to limit their power.
this is the way of the white house. in the shutdown fight and everything else, he has been acting as the chief of staff. >> i can only imagine the howls from capitol hill had this happened to any president. ken dilanian and annie and hans nichols a nichols, we appreciate everyone. >> plus, how this week's hearing with michael cohen will reveal? who has the president's back on capitol hill? but, first, following cohen's br bread crumbs.
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house democrats are determined to follow every lead provided by michael cohen. he has set a rich table, we are looking at a 10-course meal. cohen laid out a complicated web and figures all connected to president trump's political and financial dealings. there are those who related to the trump tower/moscow project. sater is now to testify in front of the committee later this month.
don jr. told congress is involved with trump tower/moscow. we have the president's finances, there is ron liebermann, he oversees trump's contract with new york city. matthew calamari, he became a close adviser to the president and the organization's chief operating officer. one name in particular came up a lot of times in regards to the president's finances. >> at the time with alan weisselberg, the bottom signature is weisselberg's. alan weisselberg. that's signed by alan weisselberg. he's the chief financial officer for the trump organization. a source tells nbc news that the house intel committee will take michael cohen's advice and they
are call weisselberg to testify. back with me with our national security reporter ken dilanian and joining me, john carlin, he's also the author of "dawnde" >> starting with you ken, michael cohen did give them a number of names that they can potentially subpoena if they have to in order to get a range of issues when it comes to donald trump. >> absolutely. he also made clear that the southern district of new york, prosecutors are investigating some of these things, katy. it is opening of what looks like a dangerous chapter for the president and his family. regardless of what happens with the mueller investigations, these other criminal investigations could be devilling trump for years to go. the question is how deeply would they go into business conduct by the trump organizations that would go back to many, many years.
that's why the statute of limitations of these of five years or ten years. what he said were financial statements that may have been manipulated and stories of charitable manipulation and auction of a portrait. there was some talk of over stating assets to an insurance company. you mentioned matthew calamari, he happens to be involved. donald trump claims him losses of mar-a-lago in the hurricane, that was back in 2005. it is clear that congress are interested in going down this road of how donald trump did business and how he paid taxes and represented his finances to banks. >> we'll see what congress decides to start with and what avenue they decide to pursue first. jamie raskin of maryland told axios that he believes it is
going to be the trump tower/moscow project. he says zeroing in on the moscow project, the russia connection and influence of foreign actor like saudi arabia. based on what you heard from michael cohen, how do you feel about that direction? >> that's an avenue to explore. one thing that's spresiinterest that ken mentions was, what we heard was new to us but it was not new to investigators looking for a period of time at the connection of foreign powers and the way they may try to influence our politics and our president and the financial dealings under lining it. following the money, i think it is going to be key for the investigators at the core with the idea russian influence, but also for those prosecutors and the southern district of new york. >> and how far would you go to get those names in front of you if you were a sitting member of
congress or you are dealing with this in a prosecutory way. >> you would hope that congress take a step back and the witnesses that they call don't interfere with our ongoing investigation. we used to have those types of discussions to deconflict of what we are doing on the side of the house with congress. ultimately, if there are allegations of misconduct of the commander in chief level because the guidance had been issued by the office of legal counsel that makes it difficult or if not impossible to indict them. the only remedy under our constitution would be congress to take a look and come to its own judgment. that case would be important for them to proceed. >> listen, we are waiting for the mueller report and ken has reported extensively on this, we don't know how much we'll be able to see because it is up to attorney general barr. and if they are not criminal offenses that can be indictable,
laid out by the special counsel, it may not be clear that we'll find out what those offenses are even if they may rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeano misdemeanors. there are different bars for congress than the criminal courthouse. is this the way for congress to get it done even if they are not having impeachment hearing? is this the way for them to air it out in public in order to get this information out there? >> yes, both to air it out but also to do their duty and find out what the facts are and whether or not there were impeachments. it is an important avenue for them to pursue and there is conduct that's alleged here that's outside the scope of the special counsel's mandate. we heard and recounting if true would constitute bank fraud and wire fraud and tax evasions and other crimes. if there are no ultimate remedy for them, the only airing under our political system is
transparency through congress and whether or not congress wants to act. >> ken, impeachment seems to be taken off the table by a number of democrats. castro told me yesterday, they're not there yet when it comes to impeachment. what is it going to take to get them there? what we are seeing of the allegations of donald trump and what he said publicly in terms of obstruction, they seem to surpass what we have heard with nixon in the '70s. >> this is a really interesting question, and john raised an important point of the interplay between the executive branch investigation and congressional investigation. the president can be indicted. what happens if the southern district develops all these criminal information about donald trump, what do they do with it. you need to have an impeachment inquiry. the grand jury information could be turned over.
there is an impeachment inquiry ongoing. they may need to open impeachment inquiry to get all the information that the southern district and prosecutors are developing. >> ken dilanian and john carlin, thank you very much. >> he's promising something that other candidates are not. that's next. that's next. ♪ feeling unsure? what if you had some help? introducing the new 2019 ford edge with the confidence of ford co-pilot360™ technology. the most available driver assist techonology in its class.
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today the first governor entering the 2020 democratic, jay inslee announced his candidacy for president. his backdrop was a solar installation company. he hopes a singular issue will separate him from a crowded field and propel him to the white house. that issue is climate change. >> truly our moment, it is our moment to solve america's most daunting challenge and make it the first for most and paramount duty to the united states and that's to defeat climate change. this is our moment to put the greatest threat to our existence, to our economy. to our health, at the very top of the nation's agenda.
>> joining me from seattle, nbc news ali vitali and our time magazine contributor and our achill alice jordan. >> ali, you got to lucky straw today in seattle where all the coffee is. i see you are joining us skype. talk to me about jay insellee, y is he betting his message on climate change will alone be a winning message. >> we are doing live shots in the car, we are trying to move between campaign events and it ended up. this was the best way for us to talk about jay inslee, he did announce his candidacy today. he's hoping climate change is the differentiating factor. the reality for him is, this is the field that's talking about
things like the great new deal or getting back into the paris climate accord, he's hoping and an adviser echoed this to me, when you talk about prioritizing this, climate change is his number one priority. it is going to be interesting if the rest of the field can latch that. the inslee team does not think they'll be able to. there is one line that stood out to me from his announcement that got the largest applause. i am going to read it here. let's come together and build a future with clean air, clean water and economic opportunity for all regardless of zip code or income or the color of your skin. this is someone looking to take on trump on the climate but also someone took on the president in his announcement speech when it came to accepting all americans. this is jay inslee was one of the first governor took on donald trump on the muslim ban. he's also someone who wants to campaign hard on healthcare, we
are going to interview him shortly. i am going to ask him what he thinks is the best way of rising healthcare in the country. he's the person in this field who wants to be known as the climate change candidate first and fill in the rest of the issues on the back end. >> so what do you think of that, kareem? do you think it is going to work for him at the crowded field? >> it is a very crowded field. it is an interesting way to set yourself apart. how are you going to set yourself apart in such a big field. he's finding that way by talking about climate change and the environment is incredibly popular right now. it is something that young people really care about and they're going to be the ones dealing with it down the line. decades from now. they have a lot of concerns and it is important to the democratic primary and voters. there is a lot of energy and tremendous energy around the green new deal when it comes to activism. it is a smart play.
what i would like to see is can he change or can he also talk about that not just the climate change but use climate change to talk about jobs or healthcare which he can do to talk about the economy and so i wonder if he's going to make that connection which will help him as well. we have to remember the governor has a great record when it comes to this topic with clean energy that he's been pushing in washington, the state of washington, he can use this record to push this single issue platform as well. >> elise, the republicans are going to attack him. they're going to say the green new deal is crazy and you are trying to take our hamburgers away. that's what they're going to do. how does inslee, it is not just about fighting climate change, it creates a lot of new jobs and does point to his record in washington. will that be effective?
it was interesting to me that the white house's own economic adviser today, kevin hassett, says climate change does pose a threat to the economy. you look at how republicans trying to paint democrats as completely radical on climate change and grant it the group, the new green deal has a lot of entitlement that i would never support. by denying that climate change is an issue, there are ultimately going to under cut the consensus of the country which when you are a republican, you know something is gong on with the climate. i think governor inslee is going to be able to get 1% and get on the debate stage. i don't know -- right now he has no name recognition, he has been a long time environmentalist. this is an interesting single issue campaign to watch. >> i want to play a little bit
from inslee today talking about why he believes in fighting climate change and go right directly to vice president pence at c-pack. let's play it. there is elements two and four. >> i stood in california a few months ago, a town of 45,000 people. we drove for over an hour in the dark. you can hardly find a house standing after those devastating fires. because of the massive fires here last summer, our kids were told to stay in doors because the air was so unhealthy. we have one chance to defeat climate change and it is right now. it is my belief that when you have one chance in life, you
take it. the only thing green about so-called green new deal, it is going to cost taxpayers if these people ever pass it in too long. >> that's why ocasio -cortez has introduced the green new de deal -- remember this one, use it. it is a watermelon. green on the outside and deep red communist on the inside. they want to take your pickup truck and rebuild your home and take away hamburgers. >> doi think that american vote
are smart enough to be able to differentiate between hysteria on both sides of the isle. you are increasingly see from the electorate, is not going to far but also is ignoring the problem at hand because republicans are in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry. elise and karine. all ali vitali, thank you for joining us from your car. it is nice to see it happening again. >> next up, with michael cohen outside the circle of trust, who are the president's public defenders? , you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? oh. well, we just spend all day telling everyone
now that michael cohen and president trump are on the outs. are republicans trump's new fixers? >> it has been clear ever since the last ever trumpers were rooted out the party, the gop would be the extension. now the enablers are willing to do what cohen says he wants it for trump, take a bullet for him. republican members of the house oversight and trump's allies like matt gaetz. >> so ladies, karine, what you
saw on the cohen's hearing on wednesday, is that an accurate d descripti description? >> absolutely, cohen laid it out. he called out house republican, if you follow what i did for this president, donald trump, of the last ten years, you are going to end up just like i did. i thought it was a clear message to them -- look, it is really wild to have watched the republican party in congress boiling down to a bunch of personalities who ignore illegal acts and the bigotry and the lies that's coming out of this white house. all for donald trump all taken place into his ego. our father wes were prepared tot guard rails for someone like
donald trump. they are not prepared to see members of government branch of the government just being enablers and that's where we are right now. >> michael cohen did show up with some documentations and some evidence and some checks. when it comes to those checks, he said the president knew about where they came from. rudy giuliani also said that he knew where they came from previously and in the interview with sean hannity, this was when the president denied of having any knowledge of it. jim jordan says well, that was already in the news. here is what lindsey graham said about it -- i believe it is today. >> i got bits and pieces on the collusion question. i think he did not advance the call at all. i found that most people don't write checks if they think they are involved in a crime.
>> okay, i don't know -- what do you make of that, elise? >> katy, it is typical lindsey graham, he's going to do absolutely whatever he can to continue to embarrass himself in his denfense of donald trump. he'll continue to defend the in defensible as long as it elevates him within washington. it is more for the course. i have a dog myself and he's not as loyal or obedient as lindsey graham and the republican congressmen in the hearing of the display they gave the other day. lindsey graham admits that all he's doing now is because he wants to get reelected and he realized that he needs donald trump to do so. matt gaets argaetz are also in .
he apologized to michael cohen. dovere over heard the president. i am happy to do it for you, you just keep on killing it. >> what do we make of that karine? >> they're supposed to do their job and be a check on this president. you have democrats were trying to get to the bottom of what's going on and trying to figure out hey, did this president commit felonies, a crime? meanwhile you had republica republicans -- >> yes, he's been accused of felo fel felonies in the white house. they're trying to get michael cohen testifying and by the way have nothing to lose and republicans are trying to figure out if he's going get a book deal or movie deal. this is insanity all to please
donald trump and his oego. >> at least cohen warned them they're all going to end up like cohen or some version at the end of this. >> i thought that was the most moving part by far and the most believable of michael cohen's testimony. i am not someone who's predisposed anything that comes out of michael cohen's mouth. that part sounded contrite and it sounded like someone who has been on a journey at least examining how he came to be in this sorry position and all the sorry crimes he committed on this road and i thought it was an interesting prophecy for those republicans/congressmen who continued to be obedient to donald trump and ignore their duties to uphold the constitution. >> elise jordan and kari
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this in a substantive way. joining me early facebook and google investor, the author of the new book and also earlygenl. congratulations on your book. i see it advertised on the subway every morning. i get reminded that i have to have you on to talk about it. when facebook and social media first blossomed, everybody was talking about how great this was, we could connect to each other across the world, stay in touch with old friends, share photos easily, we'll all be a bigger happier family. but you said you warned them early on that there might be a down side to this. >> so katie, here is what the problem is. all the things you just said true. these proper tuducts are fun to. but the business model is about
behavioral addict. and it is not just the data that we use online. they get our data from bank accounts, from our medical stuff, so like if you wear a fitbit or some other health device, they get your data from your location from your cellular carrier. they form this really complex picture of you and they do that in order to sell behavioral predictions about what you did. and the problem with all that is they are in a position to influence what you do because of their and to essentially persuade you to do various things with notifications and likes and things like that. they appeal with their algorithms to your fear and outrage it to get you more engaged. and in that state, you can be manipulated from out sued side. that is what happened in the united kingdom, here and other countries. ash and the problem in 2020 is we haven't addressed the business model where you are really trying to let people's emotions
fly everywhere. and that makes them vulnerable. >> it is not just the elections. you talk about all of the ways that user behavior can be manipulated or be harvested. but you also talk about why it is so hard to understand how that works. you say scientists have the ability to create deadly viruses, but society does not permit them to do so. financial services businesses have the ability to defraud their customers, but society does not allow that either. what should be the limits if any on internet platforms? what should be the limits? >> think about this way. and this is really where the problem comes in. that these guys can track your mouse movements over time. and for example if you develop a neurological disease, they are going to know before you do. and you are not their customer. you are the source of their data. the customer might be your
health insurance company. and they can sell them the data and the insurance company can either raise your rates or terminate your insurance before you even know you're sick. and that is what the problem is. they have basically declared imminent domain on all of this data. i think that it is time to ask questions like why is it legal to have trade, you know, either a sale or barter, whatever, of credit card information, other financial transactions. why is it legal to do the same thing with data you gather from health products. why is it legal to do that with the geo location data from your smartphone. all of these things are incredibly personal and an invasion of your privacy and frankly of your liberty to make your own decisions. >> you are also talking about this new feature that they will add, this clear history he featufe feature and you think it could be a publicity stunt. >> i think with all of these things anytime there is more visibility and more user control, that is a good thing. the problem is, and this is the
big issue, that the business model is based on gathering the data. letting you clear it after the fact is good, but it does prevent them from creating this behavioral predictions and that is where the control comes from. it is like they are running this massive experiment and at the end of the experiment, they give you a recommendation engine that says hey, if you like this, you might like that. well, think about that just for a minute. that feels like a tremendous service, but the guy running the behavioral prediction engine can control the inputs and outputs. so if they know that you are relatively wealthy, they will only show you stuff that is more expensive even if there is a better alternative at a lower price. so what i'm saying about all of these things, we just need to have conversation. we need to decide what should be the limits. and i think 2020 is actually the year where this actual needs to be front and center because it is not right versus left. it is right he versversus wrong. >> a ton of platforms out there that can manipulate you
potentially. >> google, microsoft, the whole gang. >> we should start a conversation about -- i know certainly that they are rel tryi tryitr sell me stuff on instragram every day. roger, thank you so much for coming in. love the haircut. that thinks. s see you soon. good luck with your preg nannan. the parents of warmbier is holding north korea accountable even if the president won't. one more thing is next. f the pr. one more thing is next man 3: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. (avo): humira can lower your ability to fight infections.
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one more thing before we go. the president left his summit in vietnam without a deal and he also did not stand up to the dictator whose regime killed an american. 22-year-old otto warmbier of cincinnati went to north korea in 2016 with a tour group. he was arrested for allegedly stealing a propaganda poster and was sentenced to 15 years hard labor. before sending him off to a camp, north koreans allowed otto to make this statement to the world. >> i entirely beg you, the government, for your forgiveness. please, i have made the worst mistake of my life. but please act to save me. please.
think of my family. >> after search 17 months of hard labor, the u.s. negotiated his release. and this is how he came home, in a coma okoe mcoma. he died days later. the warmbier have fought for justice, but this week in vietnam, the president said this -- >> i know the warmbier family very well. i think they are an incredible family. what happened is are horrible. and i did speak about it and i don't believe that he would have allowed that to happen. just wasn't to his advantage to allow that to happen. he felt badly about it. i did speak to him. he knew the indicate very well. but he knew it later. some really bad things happened otto, really bad things. but he tells me he didn't know about it and i will take him at his world. >> today the warmbier family responded without using the president's name. they said we have been
respectful during this summit process and now we must speak out. kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son otto. kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. no excuses or lavish praise can change that. thank you. he tells me he didn't know about it, i will take him at his word. some version of that was said i interfering in the elections, a version of that was used about khashoggi's killing. >> it is awful when you look at warmbier begging for his life, he is accused of stealing a prop began iftoday poster. and the president says i believe this murderous dictator. we fell in love and he writes me letters. >> i'm sorry that the