tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC March 1, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
watching our show, and we do have those. we like to snag fans early around here, it's good for the demo. congratulations to the whole gorman family, and ryan, man, you'll have to go find another bathroom. > we will see you sunday. >> is it good luck to have a baby during a very important house oversight hearing week? >> yes. if it's for diane, absolutely, it's the best luck of all. >> it will be marked overall, that great oversight hearing committee. have a good weekend. we have a lot of news tonight. democrats with subpoena power right now pressing the white house over a new nepotism national security scandal. "new york times" reporting trump overruled intelligence professionals who made a security clearance for jared kushner. we have that in the hour. also powerful house chairs demanding testimony from trump money man alan weisselberg.
tonight we're joined by one of the few trump executives to work by his side. that could be interesting. but i begin with client number 3 sitting down with individual 1. allow me to explain. it's a very 2019 story. donald trump went to speak with another fellow former michael cohen client, sean hannity, to attack cohen's allegations that trump was behind that money scheme to pay off stormy daniels. >> he told me at least a dozen times that he made the decision on the payments and he didn't tell you. >> he did. and he made the decision. remember this, he's an attorney. whatever decision he makes, he's supposed to rely on an attorney to make a decision. when you have an attorney, you're supposed to be able to rely on your attorney. >> attorney-client privilege? >> it's also called reliance. >> he knows what he's doing. reliance is an actual defense, though not to committing a crime.
now, it donald trump didn't tell cohen to make those hush money payments, if cohen just decided to pay stormy daniels all out of the blue, why did trump pay for it? cohen has the receipts, of course, and he showed them to congress. today's trump lawyer rudy giuliani tried to explain. >> we brought out ten months ago that he made the mamtpayments. it's our view of it that the president didn't know about it at the time. and then the president when he found out about it made arrangements for reimbursement. >> nobody really buys that, and donald trump is well known to not spend a lot of money. he is considered by many of his former coworkers notoriously cheap. hundreds of people have actually sued him for not paying back what he owed. that means things he authorized like dishwashers, painters, bartenders, and yes, quite relevant tonight, lawyers. former federal prosecutor john
flannery, special counsel counsel to three investigations, and former attorney barbara mcquade knows her way around these issues. john, i see you moving around in your chair, but you can hear me, can't you? >> absolutely. >> reliance. do you buy it? >> no, i don't. it's interesting what these guys do. reliance is based on the pla n platonic idea of an attorney -- he didn't want an attorney, he wanted a fixer. he wanted someone to do what he wanted done and he didn't care about the law. this guy has a whole line of these people, starting with mr. cohen, the famous get the communists who associated him with mobsters who told him to fight and make demands and everything else. there is no reason to believe for an instant that reliance -- and sean hannity, what a pair talking about this as if they know what an attorney is and that's what they want to have
done. that's not at all what this was about. >> yeah, i thought, and i say this in all fairness, barbara, i thought this was one of those rebuttals and defenses that really showed they have no ground left. and there are decent defenses. we've covered them on this show. there are good defenses, for example, to alleged collusion. but this seemed wild. i have a short question for you followed by a lodnger one, barbara. my short question is have you ever seen one former client interview another former client of a lawyer going to jail about what one client allegedly did? >> short answer, no. >> again, it's easy to forget in 2019. sean hannity says he paid michael cohen to be his lawyer. that right there is a huge interest for that interview. question number two is the longer question for you. if michael cohen is right and the checks are right and they're in evidence -- and this is ultimately going to be resolved
in evidentiary proceedings, not in the michael cohen proceedings, what does it mean to you, barbara, that he brought those checks and there is a multi-person -- i don't want to use conspiracy, but multi-person project for trump money to help a campaign? >> anybody who helped in a conspiracy to pay these moneys back knowing they wouldn't be disclosed on campaign finance forms could be guilty of a conspiracy. how you prove that, we don't have to rely solely on the word of michael cohen. there will be other evidence. they can talk to alan weisselberg, for example, who according to that recording participated in that conversation as well. the checks are some evidence. one thing you have to prove for campaign finance violations, it's a little different than other crimes, is that it was committed willfully. you have to show they not only knew what they were doing but that it was legal. a great way to show that is through some other evidence of
con sealing wh conc conc conceal ing and they needed to cover it up in some way. >> is it fair to say he asked michael cohen and then he didn't know about it, does that go to the type of evidence you're talking about? >> yes. when someone is lying or covering up in an unusual way, some of it could be consciousness of guilt. i know what i did was wrong and yes, i lied about it. that could be evidence to prove that unlawful intent. >> i do i think what michael cohen testified to was significant for the details and evidence provided. not for the opinions provided, of which there were some, but the evidence. as you know, prosecutors aren't normal people, no offense to either of you. prosecutors look at leads the way the rest of us look at ice cream or a nice big cinnamon roll.
they get excited. i say that as introduction to a former prosecutor, chr chris ch who we know was helping donald trump. >> well, what he did yesterday was create a whole bunch of witnesses that the house is now empowered to try to bring before them. alan weisselberg of the trump organization who he must have mentioned a dozen times. the president's children who he said was involved in the hush money payments. what he did was set all that up. >> john, do you agree, because a lot of trump defenders were saying, i want to talk about president trump's credibility. another one is saying, gosh, look at those names. those are the people you want to talk to. >> the defense of the
republicans just to call him a liar only goes so far in any kind of competition like this, and he was lying for a liar, and what were the lies about? the lies were about con cc erko what was new. he created a situation and publicly we have our witness list and we'll probably work through it. some people say prosecutors are going to be upset about that. in a normal case they would, but our system is not working. our checks and balances are not working. people who should be standing up to the white house are not doing it. we are in a very special crisis in america. and the people's house is going to do something about it. and the election that we won is going to enable us to have a good and fair and republican government like we haven't had for the two years before the midterm elections. so whatever they do to compromise mueller or whatever they try to do to shut down the southern district of new york,
they are going to have to deal with the information, and that makes the difference. jefferson said a nation that expects to be ignorant and free expects what never was and never will be. the people are going to get the information and they are going to react to it, i believe. >> fascinating. john, thank you. barbara, i'm going to see you later in the show. we have to fit something in right now. breaking news on this friday night. house democrats are now moving forward on what is widely expected to be an epic showdown to get legally donald trump's tax returns. we have nbc reporting from washington right now. the house committee with the authority to get these taxes is moving forward on the steps for something we've discussed previously, a formal request to the irs, lawyers working explicitly on language. the chair of that committee, richard neal, working with top democrats involved in order to strengths strengthen a legal case. from root.com, what is the news
tonight? >> the news is that you got ways and means that are going to formally ask for the president's tax returns. this has to do also with what we saw earlier with the oversight committee. the oversight committee could ask for the president's tax returns but they would have to basically subpoena them, and then you would have a big court battle. ways and means can actually say, look, we want the president's tax returns. but the catch is this. they can't just say, how many m's do you have in your bank account? they have to say, we need your tax returns in order to pass a certain kind of law. >> can they ask how many commas, jason? >> they could ask how many commas he's got. >> i have a u.s. senator standing by, but on this breaking news, i now ask you about the analysis. there has been so much talk about president trump's taxes for so long. what do you see as the impact in the cohen hearings? >> ocacio-cortez in the hearings, she mentioned president trump's golf clubs and
inflating the taxes. this is in the southern district of new york, so the tax returns almost become evidence forcase. this could be used for the russia investigation, what happens to people when they try to inflate their assets. possibly new laws. >> it is very fluid given the number of possible democrats working on this. thank you, jason. we keep moving forward because senator richard blumenthal is here with me in new york, michael cohen's testimony sparking all kinds of congressional leads. the oversight committee now wants to hear from donald trump. you have sater who was with trump tower moscow. then, of course, the multiple committees as reported tonight
interested in donald trump's tax returns. add to that financial chair maxine waters with new questions that deal with potential use of funds by the many who serve on the judiciary committee. thanks for being on the beat tonight. >> thank you very much. >> a lot to talk about but let's begin with the tax returns. what can you tell us about that process of something the democrats all want to do, they are made necessary by the ways and means committee wanting -- and protect the public against the kind of tax fraud that was revealed very dramatically in the trust -- that's against the law. >> you view what cohen outlined there, and he said it under
oemp oemplt. >> it's fraud in some companies, it's bank fraud. it could be approximate be many. but also i think what strikes me about the cohen testimony is the kind of pandora's box it opened. not only in terms of witnesses but also potential crimes. very few people focused on those substantial believe. and as you said before, a lot of prosecutorial ears opened wide and eyes, frankly, at some of what cohen said about those checks. you mentioned them earlier and you showed them. they were written and discussed in the after trump became president.
so i think the timing is very important as barbara and john mentioned, two great lawyers, that the potential for conspiracy there involves literally the seat of government, and i think all of the cohen testimony is very consequential in that way. >> it seemed like a significant thing even in a time when people are somewhat inured to how many breaking stories there are. i want to widen out and talk about something that's so obvious, it may not need much discussion. but you're here. it led to one of the most absurd lines of attack on michael cohen, which was republicans hammering him for being an alleged liar in the service and defense of a president that has been documented to lie more than any politician in american history. take a look. >> our first big hearing with, as we all know, a convicted liar, lying to congress.
you're a pathological liar. and look at the old adage our moms taught us. liar, liar, pants on fire. >> he's going to prison for lying to congress and he's the star witness to congress. >> you know, it's just one other example of skirting the truth. >> isn't that absurd to be the line in defense of donald trump? >> donald trump is going to fall pretty quickly if that's the defense. but remember about approximawhas is a reason to deepen and aggravate already three years he's going to spend on bars. remember, he believes everything he is telling to congress.
perhaps not normal, but remember, the arguments we make to juries using witnesses that commit these crimes. don't leave your common sense at the door. not a jury in a courtroom, but the same kind fd. >> that's why this was different. there is something in common, as you know. the jury and the court of public opinion are made up of citizens which have what we call a b.s. detector, for some of the grand i couldn't s grandiosity of partisan speeches. but this wasn't about partisan speeches, it was about this guy
w who -- i want to get your response, of course. >> there are other witnesses. we're going to hear from those other witnesses, and what is so striking about what donald trump did was he was willing to many to help him get elected. that kind of threat to our national security. we're seeing it again and he overruled his own security advice and professionals. i think none of it was about donald trump as a person, all of it was attacking cohen. >> from one prosecuting senator,
jason has been following the last stories for us and the last one is -- january, an epic overruling of the intelligence committee to rush out a clearance of ginl the very basic level, whether you're in the fbi or cia, you can't get security clearance if you have a certain debt ratio. mr. cohen would not be tiable t do this, and when the president said, why don't you step in the back, indicates how much our
government has been influenced. coming up, we have a lot to go through. new questions about the trump/cohen lawsuit. it's a rush. rush. ito take care of anyct messy situations.. and put irritation in its place. and if i can get comfortable keeping this tookus safe and protected... you can get comfortable doing the same with yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it.
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these reports that trump overruled his own intelligence officials and his white house counsel, who is supposed to look out for him, to order his son-in-law get top security clearance despite the objections. the house oversight committee coming to investigate what they did, including an internal memo that was supposed to document this order from the president. kelly writing about this and basically saying they were troubled by the order. there are rumors, which trump of course denied, that he had personally overruled those specialists. >> did you tell general kelly or anyone else in the white house to overrule security officials? >> no. i don't think i have authority to do that. i'm not sure i did. >> you would. >> but i wouldn't -- i wouldn't do it. i was never involved with the security. >> i'm joined by former assistants director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank ogluzzi. is this a nepotism scandal or a
national security one? >> it's both. because now once again we have the president putting personal interest over national security interests. this is a president who appears to hold in complete disdain contempt the intelligence agencies, doesn't like to listen to what they have to say, but yet will use clearances as a weapon and a tool, take clearance away from people like john brennan who he doesn't like but force people, order people to give a clearance to his own son-in-law after intelligence agencies have said he poses a risk. this needs to be deeply explored by congress. we need to not only see the memos that kelly wrote, chief of staff kelly, white house counsel mcgahn who felt compelled to go in writing. that's a clue that something in those background reports was very disturbing to them. >> don mcgahn always seems to be writing up everything to prove he was on the right side of wrong things that still happened, if these accounts are true and they're highly
documented, four sources of "the times." here's john brennan doing what you were highly criticizing. take a look. >> i decided to revoke the security clearance of john brennan, former director of the central intelligence agency. i have a unique constitutional responsibility to protect the nation's classified information, including by controlling access to it. >> go ahead. >> so look, this system is broken. let's just step back a moment. what congress truly needs to look at is the entire background investigation and clearance approval process. this notion that the fbi works for a client other than the american people, right, that the agency requesting the clearance or the white house requesting the clearance somehow is the final arbiter of the decision is a silly concept. if you want to do that, you can hire a private eye to do whatever you want and say whatever you want. congress needs to look at the process, they also need to subpoena the entire background investigation, not just the
memos of mcgahn and kelly objecting, let's see what's in there. >> finally on the substance, what does it mean, for those of us who aren't steeped in this, when the intelligence officials didn't want to give this clearance to kushner? you would think if it were a close call but they could go along to get along, they might do so. what does it mean when they were this concerned about someone who was clearly this close to the president? >> ari, you've got a great point. if you were on the fence, if the neighbor said he didn't mow the lawn the right way, this would skate. if they say this guy shouldn't get a clearance, we have a big problem, so there is compromised availability. we simply don't know. all we know is they're reporting that the president overruled their recommendation. >> it's significant, it relates to what the career non-partisan people think about security and it gets you way out of this binary thing about mueller
where, was it a felony or not? nobody is saying jared kushner is a felony here. not everything is about crime. the security folks said this is bad for national security, then the president came in, overruled them on nepotistic grounds and then kept lying about it. some stories are simple. this is one of them. frank, thank you, as always, for your expertise. up ahead, there is new reporting on moscow and michael cohen. but first alan weisselberg who might be in the hot seat. what he knows. we'll be back in just 30 seconds. ows. we'll be back in just 30 seconds.
it's friday night and the top story could be as big as any we've discussed. michael cohen turning up the heat and naming names in the trump organization. cohen said alan weisselberg more than 20 times in the testimony. >> alan weisselberg, he directed us to go back to alan weisselberg's office. the back of the signature, i believe, is alan weisselberg. it was alan weisselberg's decision. alan weisselberg, alan weisselberg, alan weisselberg. >> there you have it. alan weisselberg is the chief
financial officer and he was on president trump's show "the apprentice." president trump said weisselberg tracks every dime that leaves the building. they plan to call weisselberg to testify. they said they'll also pursue additional trump officials including his long-time assistant, rhona graff, and an awkward 2004 rap answer on "the apprentice." >> another guy who has done a great job for me, my chief operating officer, mr. calamari.
>> you've done a great job because -- i'm not doing too good. >> people think this stuff is easy, right, regis? it's not too easy. >> she is a former trump executive. she wrote the book "all alone on the 68th floor" and she hired mr. cohen. barbara, i think you know the saying, it's getting hot in here. >> yes, it is. >> it's getting hot for people who worked for trump. maybe not you. >> i'm good. >> you're cool. >> yeah. >> mr. calamari, you hired him? >> the big squid we used to call him. >> that was an affectionate term? >> it was then. >> it was then? can anything be gleaned by that appearance? >> the only thing was he was the ceo and that's consistent with some of the decisions mr. trump was making. >> meaning? >> putting people in charge of
things that maybe they weren't qualified. >> are you saying he was over his depths? >> correct. >> was he in rougher waters than he could navigate? >> he was maybe in higher waters than he could navigate. >> so he was a squid in higher water and he wasn't able to navigate. >> i'm questioning what he actually did. he had a title but i don't know what he actually did. >> wait, you say mr. calamari had a title and you don't know what he did and you worked ford trump org. isn't that a bad sign? >> i know what he does. >> but when he worked there. how many people would like that hanging around donald trump, fixing problems, but they really didn't have an official job. >> when i started there were eight or ten people in the organization, they all knew what they were doing and they all
belonged to their jobs. >> weisselberg. does he know how trump used his money? >> yes. weisselberg, i think, really did a lot of trump's personal accounting, and he was the accountant for the company. i mean, when i met him, he had just come there. it was like 80/70 work in brooklyn. he paid bills and collected money. >> will he spill the beans or do a lot of "i don't remember"? >> it's hard to do "i don't remember." i've been deposed many times, and after one you have a smart one on the other side. that's not going to ring true. i don't think alan would perjure himself. i've been surprised by people i knew have done, but i would be surprised if he perjured himself. >> do you think there may be other hush money payments you don't know about? >> yes.
>> more than five. >> probably? >> more than ten? >> i can't say. trump would do that kind of thing and alan bob the one who drew out the check. >> here was a 2019 one he had with weisselberg and he said, i'm his eyes and here's for his investments, and he was asked, am i his eyes and ears? from an economic standpoint. >> insurance and things like that. and payoffs. >> you know both those individuals we just discussed. howard, i want to bring in and play some of the name checking michael cohen did. at the end of the day, whether he made mistakes or not, he knows these people, he knows exactly what he's doing.
take a look at the list of witnesses that he made. >> don trump jr. and ivanka trump. >> it would either be eric trump, rhona graff is his adviser, alan weisselberg, alan garten with the trump organization as well. >> who else at the trump organization knows he did this? >> alan weisselberg. >> would mr. weisselberg have more information on that? >> mr. weisselberg for sure. >> ari, how does the house deal with that? >> ari, i spent some time in donald trump's office talking to donald and other people. it reminded me of nothing as
much as a form of upscale bad-da-bing. it was the president sitting behind a desk. nobody was wandering around because there's paintings and other things sitting on the seats. no one was sitting down. but only one person who mattered, that was donald trump. the main thing is the american people and the investigators are going to have to decide whether donald trump, his family and his inner circle, all of whom were described there by michael cohen, together constitute an ongoing criminal conspiracy that might have made itself either vulnerable or willing to conspire with the russians, but even if it didn't do that, is
this ongoing, tax-evading, hush money paying give one thing, which is money for the family. it could be foreign policy or it could be money that left him open to blackmail. that's the big question and that's what connects all the different investigations in new york and washington. is this a potential giant rico case? >> as a reporter and former exec, which do you think holds the most peril now after cohen, darold? >> it's still follow the money. >> i loved the description of
donald trump. it is 100% spot on. >> fascinating to see this play out now on a national basis but also in many ways deserving for the reasons you stated. thanks to both of you. up ahead, there are some bizarre moments in the cohen hearing. inside moscow's project and why investigators now want to hear from don jr. to hear from don jr these great perks. i got to select my room from the floor plan... very nice... i know, i'm good at picking stuff. free wi-fi... laptop by the pool is a bold choice... and the price match guarantee. how do you know all of this? are you like some magical hilton fairy? it's just here on the hilton app. just available to the public, so... book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us.
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michael cohen's bombshell testimony revealed a lot more about trump tower moscow. donald trump repeatedly lied about it during the campaign, but cohen claimed that everything the president was claiming is false. >> mr. trump knew of and directed the trump moscow negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it. and so i lied about it, too. >> now, this is important for
several reasons, including that it sheds new light on that famously disputed buzzfeed report, remember, which said trump directed cohen to lie to congress and mueller's office famously shot it down, the only times they've comment. think about what we're learning this week, cohen testifying under oath that while trump didn't tell him directly to lie, he made it clear that he wanted him to lie, and there are people saying maybe the buzzfeed report wasn't 100% wrong at all. in fact, the post said wednesday was, quote, a vindicating day for buzzfeed, saying the story in essence was correct. buzzfeed got plenty of criticism and many are saying it was echoed too fast, including right here on television news. mueller's team, as i mentioned, they said, look, in its essence, the part of there being corroboration, trump cold told
to lie, cohen said that wasn't the case. now does he look to shed light on that report? michael cohen's public testimony reaffirms what he claimed in private to investigators. as we reported, president trump met with cohen before his false testimony. that testimony was edited by administration lawyers, and cohen understood that the president was directing him to lie to congress. barbara mcquade, i think everyone remembers following that story. mueller shoots it down. what do you make of this? >> i think it gives us a way of reconciling all the different versions of this kind of telling the same story. robert mueller and prosecutors in general are so careful not to play their hand. they are all correct that there was no direct statement by donald trump directing michael cohen to lie. i think it was that idea that robert mueller wanted to get out
of the headlines because that was overstating the fact. >> you're saying the overstating fact was they didn't like the idea that there was an expectation many out there that it was a harder direction than it was. >> i think that's right. all they said was the statement was not accurate. they did not say that president trump implied not to make that statement. because of trump's lawyers and because of them saying. in the same way, he says the crowd at my i nanauguration wase biggest ever. it can be hard to prove when someone maintains that plausability by talking in code.
but if you can get enough people together in fear and say, that's how he communicated and i think we know what that meant, then you can get other people. >> the gist, which is interesting as we learn as we go. barbara mcquade, thank you as always. up ahead from the cohen hearings to new speculation about mueller. tonight we're holding nothing back. your russi russi g or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
. michael cohen's testimony upended everything this week. 16 million watched him live, many more on coverage that night. this is our first ever russia probe edition of "fallback friday." for this fallback, i'm joined by nbc intelligence reporter ken e dela nir delanian, and the cleveland musician who started recording music when he was 12. it has been viewed over 7 million times. here's a quick highlight. ♪ my man is going to put me to the test ♪ one beat later you could put
me with the best ♪ i'm skipping classes to be on this ♪ teachers think i'm passing all my courses ♪ aissee >> no wonder it viral. not bad. i got to ask you. have you ever heard bars like that? >> no, i don't think so. that was pretty good. >> when you've impressed kim delaney, he is the last word on freestyle. ken, this is investigative fall back friday because it's been that kind of week. what's on your mind? >> i'm glad you asked because conspiracy theorists on both sides of the trump/russia story need fall back. this is a really complicated story.
a lot of in and outs to the facts. reasonable people can disagree. but the people who need to fall back are those on the right who insist it's a deep state plot and a coup against the presidents and those on the left who think hoo who think he's a puppet to putin. >> some people may not like what you're saying but you're talking about letting the facts and evidence lead us, which i think is solid. ashes ri, the michael and email apparently. >> like suspicious right there. >> if you use twitter, right? >> i think we have -- let's take a listen.
>> claim and i quote president trump directed me to use my own personal funds to avoid any money being tracked back to him that could negatively impact his campaign. do you have any proof? >> just the payments, sir. >> so no email? >> mr. trump doesn't have an email. >> i don't want to read emails from donald trump but come on. he calls an ipad the flat one. and people use paypal and venmo. who's writing checks every month? >> you're saying riltsz rr a really old school campaign conspiracy but with twitter liing about it. >> it's confusing. i just want the president to fall back and send an email or two. >> i wonder what you thought of a moment going around a lot.
what was important was what we learn about donald trump. regular beef you see every day in the congress. but take a look at a moment that's gotten a lot of attention. after mark meadows brought out a woman who was a prop and then there was this exchange. >> the fact someone would use a prop a black woman in this chamber, in this committee is alone racist in itself. >> mr. chairman, there's nothing more personal to me than my relationship. my nieces and nephews are peep 068 color. >> of all the people on this committee i've said it and got in trouble for it. that you're one of my best friends. i know that shock as lot of people. >> and like wise, mr. chairman. >> and again not referringing to you at all as a racist. >> if people don't follow politics like we do day in and
day out o, how does that play out? >> congresswoman meadows maybe should fall back from some of the inconsiderate actions thank you. and emotion like -- >> yeah, as far as stuff that i will put in input on or not. it just sounded to me like the common i'm not racist i have a black friend. >> now is that true? >> so how about this? ari, you're my friend and i think you're white. so let's have the white friend offense.
black people can never be racist ever because we have a white friend. thank you, friend. >> uh, ken, i would shake your hand but you're in washington d.c. >> next time i see you i'll shake your hand. >> how was his fallback? >> it was life changing. >> we thank everyone for a special fallback friday. and next week i have a special fall for you. isaac mizrahi and craig melvin. and isaac sdruz a new memoir and tonight you might want to know he's kicking off his new tour i & me. we'll be back with one more thing. & me we'll be back with one more thing. you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar
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i sat down with the breakfast club and we went deeper talking about barack obama, his relationship to hip-hop and their rebut tool fox news attacks on their interview with kamala harris. you can hear all of it on our new podcast on apple. it's on youtube. type in "the beat" with ari and the breakfast club. we're out of time. "hardball" starts right now. >> top secret clearance. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. chris will be back from his vacation maenld night. tonight though we continue to follow the explosive news that president trump reportedly lied about how jared kugszner received his security clearance.