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tv   Dateline Extra  MSNBC  March 2, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm PST

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to go up this weekend on apple, wherever you get your podcasts. the whole interview is on youtube. type in "the beat interview with ari what evidence doesn't lie? it actually tells a story. >> tonight, you're there at the crime scene. >> you can almost recreate the crime. >> right there on the wall, a mystery scrawled in blood. three cryptic letters. what would you make of this? >> is that a word? is that a person? the clues pointed in so many different directions it was a total mystery. >> the murder of a former model and flight attendant. >> when she got dolled up, oh, my god. gorgeous. >> did she write these letters?
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>> was this a hint to who killed her? >> the message that this is my killer. >> like you would see in a movie. >> the ending was like a movie too. >> i can't believe what people do to each other. >> written in blood. >> welcome to "dateline", here's dennis murphy. >> if year around sun and water is your thing, florida's west coast should be high on the check out list of places to live.
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it was for pretty karen pannell. once the one-time model and flight attendant got sand in her shoes, she never looked back. >> she loved the beach, diving, boating, that life. i remember just jumping off the boat and going to the little islands and having picnics and coming back at sunset and so much fun. >> good friend katherine worked the counter at american airlines in tampa with karen. if you were a frazzled passenger and who isn't these days, karen was the antidote. exactly the right agent to bump into to get you on your way. >> karen was very pretty, smart, smiled all the time. funny. >> when the always capable and reliable karen didn't show up for her saturday morning shift on october 11th, 2003, clearly something was wrong. her boyfriend tim tried calling her at home.
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>> when she was not at work or answering her calls, i got worried. it was a couple of hours before i got panicky about it. >> the boyfriend drove to karen's condo. the front door was unlocked. a bad sign. he said he stepped inside and looked to the right to the kitchen. >> i saw her body and i knew immediately there was no doubt in my mind she was dead. i picked up the phone and called 911. >> she is laying on the floor. there is blood everywhere. >> karen pannell is sprawled on her back, bloody and a murder victim in her own home. homicide detective michael holbrooke would lead the investigation. >> when are the deputies arrived on the scene, she hysterical and he threw up in the front yard he was so upset. >> deputies give him a chance to collect himself in the back seat of a patrol car where he placed
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a call to karen's friend katherine with the unimaginable news. he said it's tim and i'm at karen's apartment and there is blood everywhere and she's been stabbed. >> stabbed. >> it's really a horrible way to die. >> karen. the baby of the family with five older brothers, suddenly gone. she has been especially close to her oldest brother mike. >> my brother called me and i was at the airport and said you better sit down. he said karen's been murdered. >> any theorys about what happened? >> i don't know. i was trying to figure out the why. and relying on the police to do what they needed to do.
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>> what they had to do was plenty. they processed the crime scene, filmed every inch of karen's home, knocked on doors, tried to figure out just who their victim was. detectives holbrooke and larry began with a man who made the 911 call. >> the first thing the investigator will do is talk to the people closest to her. we had timothy permentor finding his girlfriend. we talked to him extensively. >> tim gave the detectives a run down of where he was in the hours leading up to the terrible discovery. he said he popped in briefly on karen the night before to drop off a gift. a photo calendar of kittens he knew his cat lover girlfriend would find irresistible. he said he left around 7:30 and that was the last time he saw karen alive. >> wouldn't it be a routine to spend the night? >> not on a friday. she worked early the next day.
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>> after saying goodbye, he ended up spending the night with friends about an hour to the north. >> is he saying anything that like he can't do it and i want to talk to a lawyer or any of that stuff coming out of him? >> he is being more than cooperative. >> tim said he was off with his friend, there appeared to be a frenzied struggle at karen's house. specialist and a cop assessed the bloody aftermath. >> sheer put up a heck of a struggle. she had defensive wounds and the way her body was contorted and i just remember thinking she put up a heck of a struggle. she really fought for her life. >> do you say oh, my goodness or have you seen everything at this point? >> i can't believe what people do to each other. it was terrible. terrible. >> around the back, the crime scene tech found the security check was dislodged and there were other signs of tampering.
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>> there was a cable box that was open and you start to think to yourself, somebody trying to cut the wires and there was a knocked over bird bath. there was evidence outside that at first you need to think to yourself, i think that this might be a burglary . >> karen's overturned purse on the stove top supported the break in theory. anna cox took an inventory of everything at the crime scene. a pizza box, a garden glove, a grocery receipt. all routine findings so far. it's what authorities spotted on the wall above the body that would turn this case into something out of the movies. a three-letter message in blood. you didn't have to squint to make it out either. roc. on the right hand index finger was clearly stained with blood. roc? what was the murdered woman trying to tell the cops? >> all these theories were running through my mind. what does that mean?
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is it a word or a person or a thing? the clues pointed in so many different direction that is it really was a total mystery. >> there is a concept in the law known as a dying declaration. with those three letters scrawled in her own blood lead to the apprehension of her killer? >> when we come back, investigators dig into that three-letter mystery. >> you have this scrawled in message saying this is my killer. >> absolutely. >> who or who was roc? when written in blood continues. let's be honest:
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>> the camera always liked karen. she was hard to miss and hard to forget. just ask her boyfriend, tim permentor who was smitten right away when he met her at the vw dealership where he worked. >> what are did you think? >> she was gorgeous. beautiful. >> you were pinching yourself. >> oh, yeah. karen was one of the best women i have ever known. i thought she was the one. the person i could settle down with. >> settling down had not been part of karen's growing up. she and her five brothers had been raised as military brats. moved bases a lot. that family was gathering for far flown parts of the country for her funeral.
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shocked and in mourning for the lost sifter who was their glue. >> all the boys got involved in their own stuff, but then karen was really what connected all of us to the family unit. >> what does that tell us about her? >> she was a lot more important to us than we knew. she was always more interested in family as a whole than in herself. >> brother mike was not alone in thinking his kid sister could have been a sky's the limit person. >> she could have been anything she wanted. a scientific or a doctor. whatever. she was just really nimble-minded. >> her friends loved her. >> she was hard not to love. >> even harder to forget what a cruel fate she suffered at the hands of a killer unknown. >> during the viewing, there were visible stab wounds on her hand.
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we kind of pull the flowers down further. >> a few days after the murder, her many friends at the airport said their goodbyes. >> there was a chapel in the main terminal in tampa at the airport. there were so many people there from all different airlines. the security people. it was incredible. >> meanwhile, the pinellas county sheriff investigation was moving quickly on several fronts. first, they validated boyfriend tim's story. he said after visiting karen early that evening, he spent the light night with a friend named george solomon in moon lake about an hour to the north. >> he did go up to where he was staying. this is confirmed through interviews with george as well as george's girlfriend. >> george gave us a timeline that was consistent with what permentor gave us. >> tim's story checked out and he came clean on something right
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from the start. he had a record. he had done time. >> early on in your life, you get involved in trouble. what was going on? >> i was running an escort service. got stupid. started it up small basically running an ad out of a newspaper. getting a small office and it just expanded from there. >> what kind of money? >> i was grossing about $6,000 to $7,000 a day. >> that was the trap. >> why am i going to school making this kind of money. >> for ended up in a gun fight? >> yes, sir. >> tim was worried he would be painted as a bad guy right away because of his sorted past. he promised to cooperate in every way possible. but cops took him up on it. >> i allowed them to photograph me and removed all my clothing and allowed them to go to my home and take anything they
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wanted. >> there was nothing about his clothing or car or his person that led us to believe that he was involved in any other way than he said he was. he came over to see her and found her and was devastated. >> his alibi checked out and police dismissed clues pointing to a home invasion. karen had been stand 16 times. an attack so ferocious, it could only be a crime of passion. now the pictures were desperate to figure out what the biggest clue of all meant. the three letters written in blood. roc. >> this was a pretty creepy scene. this scrawled in blood message saying this is my killer. i am dead, but you find this guy. that's what it is suggesting. >> absolutely. like you would see in a movie. >> detectives soon discover how the letters on the wall, roc, were in fact connected to the victim lying beneath them. roc it turned out was a person.
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the name of a man who had spelled trouble for karen in the past. >> roc was an ex-boyfriend who karen had problems with previously. >> whoever and wherever this roc was, he had just become the prime target of the investigation into her murder. >> there it is. that's what she meant to write was roc. then they have to follow that lead and off they go. >> to find roc? >> to find roc. >> coming up, mission accomplished. find him they do. >> what do you think she saw in you? >> the bad boy kind of thing. >> what are would they find? >> i'm looking at murder. somebody is talking to me about a murder. >> when "dateline" continues. how do you gauge the greatness of an suv? is it to carry cargo... or to carry on a legacy? its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground?
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a stomach-churning crime scene with in at first glance cryptic message written in blood. roc. not a big mystery for long. roc was the unusual but proper spelling of karen's ex-boyfriend. >> me about the former boyfriend known as roc. letters scrawled in blood. >> roc was an ex-boyfriend and had legal problems and a little bit of substance abuse problems. >> roc had a personality as big and loud as the pipes on the harleys he loved to cruise. he handled insurance claims. when he met karen, she was on a downward spiral. after being married for five years, she recently got a divorce and a doctor had just
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given her awful news. she had multiple sclerosis at treat 38 years old. >> to be a young divorced woman with this diagnosis, what do you think that did to her? that's a lot to put on your shoulders. >> right. that really affected her self esteem and frankly may have had an impact on the kind of men that she was attracted to. >> karen came to rely on roc to take her to doctor's appointments and give her injections. when she asked him to move in, her friends and family thought she was asking for trouble. >> you worry is this the way ahead for my sister? >> i think that's true. is it my place to say well, you need to go find somebody that is going to offer you a better future? >> you can't dictate terms to your kid sister. >> no. you can only fix yurz yourself. >> as it turned out, roc's relationship took an ugly
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turned. >> they're seemed to get along for a while and she was happy, but he turned into not a nice guy. it was creepy. unexplained bruises and i used to tell her what are you doing. he did not deserve her. >> the fights got worse and police were called three separate times to intervene. one time roc allegedly broke down the front door. it was the last straw. karen filed a domestic battery complaint and roc moved out. even a year later roc was harassing her about a roll top desk he left behind. >> she was starting to get scared of him. >> i have a valuable piece of furniture and i want to back. >> karen said that was -- >> he tried to worm his way back in? >> they had to confront this roc
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and they tracked him down and paid a surprise visit. he was not happy to see them. >> i'm in the garage in north port, florida. a black unmarked shows up and i'm like everybody know what is that is. i'm thinking what the heck is that. >> detective holbrooke identified himself and said they needed to talk to him about his friend, karen. >> we sat down on the porch and he said she is dead. this doesn't even register and i said you need to tell me what's going on. >> the detective wanted roc to do the talking and he and he asked about his troubled relationship with karen. >> here indicated he was using drugs and karen liked to drink and they fought often. >> roc said he savored the good times too. >> when she got dolled up, oh, my god. gorgeous. picture-perfect. wasn't anything out of place. >> were there sparks there?
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>> yeah, there was. she was all that. all by herself and ready to go. she looked hungry for attention and she was alone. it was perfect. it was a perfect set up. >> what do you think she saw in you? what was it from her side? >> probably the bad boy kind of thing. i wasn't the conventional straight-laced guy. >> roc was open and came across as a good guy, but conceded there were some rip roaring fights and said she was the instigator. >> she would get physically violent. just stuff. things would happen. nobody ever got arrested, but they would come out and address the issue. >> as roc told it, she gave as good as she got. he dodged a few pieces of thrown crockery. >> she was ready to stand up for herself at the drop of a hat. she was a tough girl. >> roc remembers karen playing
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hardball about the roll top desk and not liking her attitude. >> i did call her about my roll top desk. >> the desk. >> the stupid desk and it was bugging me. it was a nice piece of furniture and i really wanted to get it back and she pretty much said you left and you are not getting it. >> he never did get it. the roll top was still in karen's condo on the night she was stabbed to death. now detective holbrooke wanted to know if roc had been there too. >> he said where were you on such and such day? i'm like well, first of all i will have to look at the calendar because i don't know where i was that day, but i guarantee you i wasn't there. we go from there to discussing where i was, who i had been with and where i lived. >> you are getting a serious grilling. >> right.
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he told me we found your name in blood on the wall. >> roc? >> yeah. obviously i'm a suspect and i acknowledged that. i'm looking at murder. somebody is talking to me about a murder. >> roc waived his right to a lawyer and agreed to give fingerprints and stabbing. it looked as though they found yet another cooperative boyfriend of the victim. >> if you are looking for fingerprints, they are all over. i lived there for a year. you are going to find them. >> did you lose your patience? >> i did lose my patience cutting the end of my finger taking a finger nail now we are done. >> his cooperation had an edge. was he really trying to cover his tracks. detectives were determined to find out.
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the handwriting was on the wall. specialist anna cox was intent on breaking down the key piece of evidence implicating her ex-boyfriend, roc. the three letters in blood, roc. >> you would spend hours looking at the letters. >> you cut the sheet rock out of the place and took it to your lab? >> yes. i have to look at the letters and everything about them. >> using a high-powered microscope, anna did an analysis of the specks of blood that stained the wall as karen stabbed 16 times that. served as a canvas for the letters roc.
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>> when are the letters were written, it skimmed over it and didn't disrupt it. >> here was the central observation. the specks of blood were not speared, roc was written after they dried. how long after? >> i have a machine i use to make spatter. >> in her lab, she used animal blood to see how long it took to dry on a similar surface. >> i applied it to sections of cardboard i started writing the word roc. i must written this over different areas of spatter. >> it took at least 20 minutes of drying time before the specialist could write without smearing the spatter. she concluded there must have been about that much time between the attack on karen and the word roc being written on the wall. next she looked for fingerprints
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in the letters themselves. sounds impossible, right? >> if she is writing and applying pressure, you would think there would be a type of transfer of ridge detail. >> we're all have it. tell tale patterns on every finger and hand. anna was not finding that here. rather she detected a hint of a pattern like polka dots. >> i thought back to myself, the garden glove on the counter that was missing the match. missing its pair. >> a garden glove was found in karen's kitchen. the mate was never locate and had a distinctive dot pattern. >> with the palm and the fingers were, it's like that rubber. it's got those little nuby things that stick up for gripping purposes so when you are gardening it doesn't slip. i remember thinking wow, i
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wonder if that's what wrote these letters. >> cox bought similar gloves at a hardware store and after several more days of testing, was satisfied that her hunch was correct. >> anna cox had come up with two important findings. the message in blood had likely been written with a gloved hand and scrawled 20 minutes after the on set of the attack on karen. she reported her results on the detective who is had learned another fact about the victim. >> karen was exclusively left-handed and her left hand did not have blood on it. >> not only that, when the autopsy came in, it suggested karen could not have written anything. >> from what the medical examiner was saying, did this victim dip into her own blood and write roc on the wall? >> over 90% of her spinal cord was damaged. >> she was incapacitated?
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>> it wasn't her. she didn't write that. >> the evidence was overwhelming. karen did not write the letters, roc in blood. it was a huge turning point and the best news for the ex-boyfriend, roc. >> they're confirmed 100% she could not have done it. she would be physically incapable. it surely wasn't me. why would you write your own name on the wall? >> police agree. implicating yourself in a murder made no sense. roc got more good news after police checked out the alibi that he was home on the night of the murder. >> we had his cell phone records and the cell towers around the same time we know karen was killed he is in north port, florida. that's a good hour, hour and a half away. >> you went over the beefs he
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might have had with her? the boyfriend-girlfriend? >> absolutely. he had moved on. pa. >> the detectives were ready to move on too. they officially cleared roc. it was a major development. karen's ex-had suddenly gone from being a prime person of interest to a victim himself. victim of the real killer who tried to frame him for the crime and was still out there somewhere. >> whoever killed her did know that somebody named roc is part of the story. >> that's right. but if you think about this, it's not even a smart thing to do. >> roc was right. the pool of suspects had suddenly narrowed to a handful of karen's intimate who is knew about him and knew the unusual way he spelled his name. roc. detectives holbrooke and alvin were about to take a look at all of them. coming up, a surprise in the hey mercedes,
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>> police reached a startling conclusion. karen pannell did not write the letters roc on the wall. they were a gift to police because they figured he had to know both karen and roc.
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detectives started questioning the other men in karen's life. >> karen had nicknames for her boyfriends. car guy was tim permentor and another one she referred to as dr. pilot. >> dr. pilot, a british airways captain had been sending karen romantic texts, but he was aboard a flight over the mideast when karen was killed. he was ruled out as were most of karen's known male friends. all could prove he was nowhere near her house that night. every boyfriend except car guy, tim permentor who reported finding karen's body. >> is she conscious? >> no. >> is she breathing? i don't know. >> tim was inconsolable and told detectives he lost the love of his life, the woman he was hoping to marry. the people who knew karen next starred telling police a different story. >> i'm not sure why she stayed in that relationship or even
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began a relationship like that. >> the relationship began with tim trying to sell karen a new car. police learned he also sold her a bill of goods about himself saying he was a navy s.e.a.l. involved in top secret meigs and never mentioning the sorted truth about his criminal past. >> karen told me he explained as he got injured on a mission. >> super commando stuff? >> i think that would have been his impression of himself. >> why are you lying? you are giving her a crock? >> there is no excuse for it. other than if you are an inmate or convicted felon, no matter how good you do and no matter what you do, there is always going to be the spector hanging over you. >> several months into the relationship before tim finally revealed his ugly secret. he was a felon who spent more than a decade behind bars. not a navy s.e.a.l. or a violent one-time pimp. the self-described escort king.
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>> i said i have been waiting for the right time to tell you and she was flabbergasted. i think she became frightened of me. >> why didn't you shake hands and call it quits? >> because i loved her. >> karen's friends and brothers say she told them she was afraid. when she tried to pull away from tim, brother mike said the fears were quickly born out. >> did you hear evidence that she was not being treated well? >> yes. she called me and said that tim had choked her and i felt like after that conversation that i convinced her to file a police report. >> but no report was filed. still karen's coworkers could tell something was terribly wrong. >> she had bruising on her neck. in fact one of her friends at work remembered her missing a day or two and when she came in
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show wore a turtleneck in the summer months. >> they chased down every lead, the crime lab made another big discovery. unlike the melodramatic and bogus message in blood, this evidence was something anna cox almost passed right over. a pizza box on karen's kitchen counter. >> you could walk by and think it has no importance at all. it was crucial in this case. >> cox was able to lift a clean fingerprint from the box. it was tim permentor's and it blew a hole in the account of the night she was killed. >> he said she wasn't there when the pizza was delivered. >> he said i was out of there at 7:30. >> his fingerprints were on the box. >> the receipt said it was delivered at 8:48. >> yes. he put himself right there at the scene and in the last
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crucial hours of her life. >> a core set of facts. >> for him. >> and then tim's alibi took another hit. he said he was home when he called his friend george just after 9:30. the detective found evidence proving otherwise. >> when we get the cell records back, we are putting him at her house. >> so the tower is catching him in a lie? >> absolutely. this 911 phone call in the morning hits off the same tower that he was hitting off when he called george the night before which was directly north of karen's house. >> they could think of only one reason for tim to lie about the times. it was that karen's car guy was the killer. they brought him to headquarters again. this time for an official and much more aggressive interrogation. >> he gave the same timeline as he gave previously. we went through it again and he held true to what he told us.
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at that point we started attacking the story. >> tim had a simple explanation for the timeline problems. he was confused. >> this is the corroboration. it got me confused. >> confused? you get confused when you lie. >> when the pizza arrived, i was still there. >> 8:48 delivery . >> it was right after the pizza arrived. i was there for 10 or 15 minutes. >> 'did you tell cops 7:30? >> i'm horrible at times and days and the problem was that making a mistake became i'm hiding something. >> cops call the mistake a lie? >> of course. >> why did you lie? it was 8:30 to 9:30. >> it's impossible. >> no. pizza receipt was in the trash. >> tim was tripped up by his own
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statements and the detective said his suspect knew the charade was over. >> he put his face in his hands and literally covered his face for two or three minutes. tim ultimately looked up at us and the car salesman guy who was tim permentor had left the room. >> what are did you see in his eyes and face? >> the first thing was satan walked into the room. >> coming up -- >> i knew i was innocent. >> was he? >> the trial and the verdict. i love my babies, love my boys. since i'm a truck driver, you know there's times that i'm gone for, like, three weeks at a time. even if i'm 3,000 miles away, i'm connected with my boys. every day i can video chat with them. i could be in the middle of wyoming. even if i'm like waaay... out here, i can still reach my kids. baby, you-- you see me? (sons) hey, daddy!
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detectives were now convinced that tim permentor, the boyfriend who plenled to help solve karen's murder was really the killer. tim said police had nothing on him and were only targeting him because of his criminal record. >> i didn't do it. i knew somehow, some way i was going to get it pinned on me. i knew the minute i saw the body. >> detectives arrested him and sent him to county jail. the state attorney got the case. >> what are about timothy permentor? >> he is a psychopath, someone who i think had gotten lucky to be with karen. once she got past the superficial aspect of him and realized what he was like, she wanted out of that relationship and that ultimately lead to her death. >> the prosecutor said he acted
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the bereaved boyfriend. >> oh, god! >> the prosecutor said permentor got thrown off the tear-stained script when he called karen's best friend soon after making the 911 call. >> he said katherine, it's tim. i'm a karen's apartment and she is laying on the floor and there is blood everywhere. she has been stabbed. >> stabbed? >> stabbed. not she is dead, but she's been stabbed. >> he said she has been stabbed. >> okay. she has been stabbed. >> we didn't know that at that point in time. >> he knew something crucial he shouldn't have known. >> because he's the 1 that stabbed her. >> the prosecutor looked at the rejected lover and they showed was at the scene of the crime and lied about it. he charged permentor with first-degree murder and decided to seek the death penalty.
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weeks before the trial was scheduled to start, tim's friend george solomon, his sleep over alibi witness recanted his story, and how. >> he came up with a new story that permentor admitted he killed karen that night. >> blurted out a confession? >> that's a holy cow moment. >> death penalty cases can take a torturous path when reaching a courtroom. this had taken long years and despite building a strong circumstantial case, prosecutors did not have a murder weapon or physical evidence linking tim to the stabbing. defense attorney dudley kline. >> you have a complete lack of physical evidence. no bloody fingerprints. no bloody footprints or the door. >> the prosecutor was confident about the evidence he did have. >> i think circumstantial cases are sometimes the best. they don't lie.
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the circumstances don't lie. people lie. >> that's the case lawry made to the jury. the circumstances showed tim permentor was the only one with a motive and opportunity to kill karen. everything he did afterwards of fabricated to cover up the crime. >> the issues in this case or the murder of karen by the only person that really could have done it and that person lied about all these things. there was no reason for a person to lie about the death of their loved one if that's true. >> defense attorney countered with common sense, arguing that karen's killer must have been drenched in blood after a frenzied attack. there was no forensic evidence show his client was that person. >> in order to buy the state's case, you have to make assumption upon assumption upon assumption. that's not what our system is about.
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>> how did i do it? how on earth did not one single drop of blood get on my clothing or anything like that? >> or in your car which was ripped apart. >> right. i agreed to let them look. get what you want. i knew i was innocent. >> the defense alsoer to into the credibility of the state's star witness, george solomon saying it was ridiculous to think timed get an invitation to spend the night after blurting out a murder confession. >> i killed somebody just now. really? let's go see my wife and kids. no way. >> a confident tim permentor decided to speak directly to the jury. he took the stand in his own defense. >> the attitude was look, you have to get up here and talk to these people. >> how do you remember him on the stand? >> i think he was calm. i think he answered the
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questions as best he could. very simply. i think very completely. we felt we had made a showing that the state had not met the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. >> mike waited four long years to get justice for his sister. but now, he wasn't sure what the jury would do. >> there were times that i felt the evidence was very circumstantial. >> in this day and age, juries really like to see forensics. the dna and the blood samples. >> that was the biggest concern for me. >> but it took the jury just four hours to find tim permentor guilty of first-degree murder. she was spared the death penalty by the judge who ordered him to serve a life sentence. i spoke to permentor at florida's liberty correctional institution. the murderer said he is the
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victim of a justice system tilted against him from the start. >> did you murder karen? >> no. >> this would be a great time to relieve her family of a lot of remorse and fess to it. >> i understand that, but i did not kill karen. i did not. i will probably spend the rest of my life here and when i'm 80 if i'm still alive, i did not kill karen. i will pay for it and i am paying for it, but i didn't do it. >> the detectives who cracked the case say they might have believed him if only he had not tried so hard to fake his alibi. starting with the three letters written in blood. >> this hollywood touch as i think of it, rock did it. the declaration. it bit him? >> it bit him hard. very hard. he outsmarted himself and that's why he is in prison. >> roc is free to ride his harley these days, but it still
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eats him up that a man he never met tried to frame him for murder. >> for you could talk to him the way we are sitting here, what would you say? >> i am restrained, correct? i couldn't get to him? i would not be a good communicator in that conversation mode with him sitting there. i couldn't do it. >> mike pannell couldn't do it either. he would rather not think about tim permentor and the last moments of his precious baby sister's life. >> i am not interested in remembering karen associated with that crime. >> it's been a long ordeal for you. >> i want to remember karen as a brilliant beautiful young woman that she was. >> maybe this smiling person. someone who loved her friends, loved the beach, and died too young.
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>> that's all for this edition > you have to be aware of your surroundings because you just never know. >> it started with a frightening horror flick from the '80s. >> the movie is we're going to take some women into the woods and then poof, they're going to be hunted down. >> then decades later, something truly frightening. it it was happening for real. a strange vanishing in the forest. >> immediately we knew something was wrong. >> your heart just broke. >> sheryl, then meredith. two women missing and two desperate efforts to find her. >> she he could be alive and we can't let up. >> could this old movie be the key?

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