tv MSNBC Live With Richard Lui MSNBC March 9, 2019 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
hour of msnbc live. i'll be back tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. eastern and follow me on twitter and instagram. the news continues right now with my colleague richard lui. hello and happy afternoon to you. >> good day to you, kendis and we'll see you tomorrow. and hello to all of you. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. coming up for you -- >> i have never asked for nor would i accept a pardon from president trump. >> well, that is not what the president says. now questions are amounting over michael cohen's pardon claims under oath. so what did the president's former fixer tell his lawyers to ask mr. trump after all? plus -- >> the judge said there was no collusion with russia. this had nothing to do with collusion. there was no collusion. >> no collusion. that is not what paul manafort's sentencing was about? how the mueller team might be listening to the president's latest misrepresentation. also, did that wheelchair
manafort was sitting in help with what critics call a light sentence. and in trouble again. what congresswoman ilhan omar is saying about president obama and how that hate is exposing the democratic party. and michael cohen and his former boss, that's where we start, and president trump going head to head over a presidential pardon when the president fired off this tweet on friday calling cohen a bad lawyer and fraudster for telling congress he never asked for a pardon. the president claimsco ep directly asked him for a pardon and a job at the white house and both requests he said he denied. less than 30 minutes later cohen snapped back with his own tweet accusing donald trump of lying saying the president may want to apologize for his own lies and dirty deeds to those like karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. and then he slapped a lawsuit of
$1.9 million in legal fees and pardon might not be in his future but it is for paul manafort after the comments yesterday. >> i feel very badly for paul manafort. i think it is a very, very tough time for him. but if you notice both his lawyer, a highly respected man and a highly respected judge, the judge said there was no collusion with russia. this is a collusion witch hoax. i don't collude with russia. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> i don't even discuss it. the only one discussing it is you. i haven't discussed it. >> well on thursday, a federal judge in virginia sentenced the former trump campaign chairman to 47 months in prison for tax and bank fraud, well below the recommended sentencing guidelines of 19 to 24 years. he faces his final sentencing this week in washington federal court. joining me now, jordan fabian
and natasha bertrand from the atlantic and contributor and katie benner justice department reporter at "the new york times" and barb mcquade. and natasha, i'll start with you. as you watch the back and forth with the president making misrepresentations as we started this hour with, as well as now addressing the idea of pardon directly. >> yeah, it is pretty remarkable. i think that we're kind of losing sight of the big picture here in this back and forth that michael cohen and donald trump have had which is the president admitted that he discussed pardons with michael cohen just after the fbi raid on michael cohen's home and office in april of 2018 and we had known thanks to the "new york times" report that they had spoken by phone just days after that raid occurred. now the question we have to ask is what is more likely that michael cohen asked directly for a pardon or that donald trump said think about it, i can give you a pardon if you agree not to
cooperate with the people that just raided your home and office. that is up for debate because both of them have serious credibility issues but i think that what we're going to see moving forward is that michael cohen, as he has done in the past, has produced documents and proof and just the mere fact that the president has acknowledged for the first time that he did, in fact, have conversations about a pardon with an associate and that raises questions of who else has he had those conversations with, if anyone. >> and barbara, not only the protocol that may be in question in terms of the way the president is discussing pardons, and number two if there is any legal jeopardy or exposure if they were -- and we don't know necessarily, how they may have been talking about pardons. >> yes. i think even acknowledging that he was discussing pardons was a big mistake for president trump. i'm sure his lawyers dread the fact that president trump has access to twitter and can share every thought, every day, which he tends to do without much filter or thought about the
consequences. but by even admitting that he had a conversation with michael cohen about pardons, he's now made himself a witness to that issue. and so if that issue comes up in the matter of obstruction of justice, he is put that out there. and so i think it begs the question, well what did you say? how did this conversation go down? was this no not ever or no, not now, talk about it later and see what happens. so i think it is a mistake for him to mention that he's done that and one of the reasons that lawyers so frequently tell their clients not to say anything. because you don't know how the story is going to shake out in the end. it locks you into a particular narrative and it makes it very difficult to change that later, whether it is true or false, it is difficult to adapt a driven strategy later. >> and katie, the mueller team all ears appealed on this -- pealed on this and they areni - are listening to the potential of a pardon or not. >> absolutely. i'm sure they are paying close attention to the battle between michael cohen and the president. it is not just the mueller team.
you have several house investigations and investigations going on in the tate of new york and sdny. so a lot of people are trying to figure out what is going on not just president and michael cohen, but michael cohen has provided documents and testimony that is very clearly putting the spotlight, moving it away from this sort of circus side show and on to what did the president's children know about the finances of the trump organization and what did other leaders of that organization know. >> children. and let's jump on to that top quickly here, jordan. are they now in discussion as we do look at not only what the mueller team is doing but also house oversight and i say it only -- in two words but that is a big process ongoing this monday we saw the beginnings of that. >> yeah, richard. and there was a tremendous request for documents related to the trump organization where don jr. and eric are in charge as well as ivanka trump and her security clearance inside of the white house which is a very
sensitive issue. that being said, there is all of these requests, the white house is stonewalling them and what the play is here with michael cohen is, well, just to take any thread they can have and undermine his credibility. because he made some very extraordinary charges against the president. so even if the president comes out looking bad here, the play that the president and his team have decided is to go after mike a -- to go after michael cohen and seizing on the question of the a pardon and his desire to work in the white house as areas they could do that. >> you have a big week ahead, natasha, as you watch what is coming down on roger stone and the status hearing and paul manafort sentencing in the d.c. case which we were alluding to a second ago and that is on wednesday. also wednesday michael flynn sentencing update and that is a big one. as you watch all of these activities that will be happening in this upcoming week, what are you looking at most carefully. >> i'm looking at what judge amy
berman jackson is going to do with regard to paul manafort. what she's going to sentence him to, knowing that he only got four years -- just under four years in virginia last week. a lot of prosecutors that i've spoken to, former prosecutors say that predict she'll throw the book at him. having seen the backlash against what judge t.s. ellis gave to paul manafort, this is a different consideration for her and she has been very unforgiving to paul manafort and his team in the past. certainly not as for giving as judge ellis has been and she sided with mueller's team last month and said, yes, manafort did break the plea agreement and yes, that plea agreement is void now. and she has the ability now to tack on consecutive years, not just concurrent years to his prison sentence. so i'm definitely looking at that. but of course roger stone is also a wild -- a wild card because the judge is angry with him about the book he wrote even
though he is under a gag order and the traug post where he said he was framed while he was under a gag order. so a lot to come this week. but i think that the thing that most people are going to be watching is whether or not paul manafort spends up to 14 years in prison. >> barbara mcquade, you knew a couple of judges or two or three. what do you think will happen this coming week as natasha is underlining so well for us what we'll see possibly with paul manafort? >> well, he faces up to ten years in prison, additional to the 47 months that he got from judge ellis. i think that the sentence he got from judge ellis was shockingly low. he was facing 19 to 24 years based on the sentencing guidelines and that is a calculation done based on the loss amount, based on his role in the event and all kinds of things. and although many judges do offer very low sentences in white-collar cases which is one of the great disparities in our criminal justice system even for a white-collar case we saw a
drastic reduction from 19 to 24 years down to less than four years. i don't think we're going to see the same story from judge jackson. she has seen a very different side of paul manafort. although he went to trial in the judge ellis case, the case before judge jackson in washington, d.c. also includes witness tampering, which caused her to revoke his bond, and it also included her findings that he lied to prosecutors when he was trying to cooperate. and so i think she has a fuller picture. not only of his conduct but his character and so i think that he's likely to get something closer to the ten years if not the whole ten years and as natasha said, the ability to tack it on consecutively to the 47 months. so could get him up to 14 years if she goes to the high end. >> katie, going back to the calendar this week, michael cohen and his sentencing, we're getting an update and if the update is they don't have a decision as of yet what, does that mean for the timing of the mueller investigation which many
networks were thinking and estimating that we were going to see something in february, right? >> well, i don't know that that has much to do with the mueller investigation at this point. we've already seen federal prosecutors from different offices sort of sign on to some of the cases and be part of them. so even if the mueller team were to close down shop, u.s. attorneys in the eastern district of virginia and other places are already in place to do things like kind of clean up the ends of these cases. so even if flynn's sentencing is delayed, i don't think that necessarily delays the coming of the mueller report. but as we all know, everybody is waiting for -- everybody has been wrong for a year and a half that it is almost done so i would never say when it is going to come out. i will say that the end of the flynn sentencing and wrapping up the cases, i don't think would preclude a report. >> many on high alert is what you are saying, katie, including everybody on this panel certainly. jordan, i want to ask you on this, get your thoughts on a report that just came out
involving gaining access to the president. this coming from the reporting that the former owner of the florida massage parlor involved in the robert kraft investigation before it became under investigation for soliciting prostitution has been selling chinese executives access to the president while at mar-a-largo and also his family. cindy yang is the video of this story and her husband, according to one of the business websites, can arrange to take photos with the president and set up white house and capitol hill dinner and that is the service and access they are driving. yang has not been charged and has denied knowledge of any legal -- illegal activity at the spa and we have reached out to the white house and yang and we have not received as of yet. your thought? >> well if for any twitter user it was stunning how many photos she was in with -- among people in the trump world including president trump herself. but richard, think what this shows how little we know what is going on at mar-a-largo on the
weekends when the president is there, who is he meeting with and is there any attempts to have foreign influence or anything like that. we don't get visitors logs when he goes down there. and we only know who is there if we happen to glance at something on social media or the white house lets us know and that is usually if the president wants us to know. so it is only in cases like this where we discover something like this and, again, could pose even more legal and ethical questions for this white house that is already under siege with so many investigations that we've been talking about this entire segment. >> great. natasha bertrand, katie benner and jordan stick around and i'll talk to you later in the show. coming up. saying he will not belittle other democrats this time around, what bernie sanders is doing differently from the 2016 presidential run to avoid mistakes. plus, why not? a look at the abrupt resignation of a former fox news executive turned white house communications director. turned white house communications director.
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you'll hear this a lot. who is in and who is out. the democratic field for the 2020 presidential race is coming into focus as every day moves on. officially out for you, hillary clinton. mike bloomberg and eric holder and sherrod brown. who is in? john hickenlooper now joining 11 other major candidates. a lot of them in austin this weekend for south by southwest. noticeably absent, former vice president joe biden but according to the "new york
times" he's building a team. democratic chairman tom perez announcing no democrat will appear on fox news for a primary debate this election cycle. let's go to nbc news shaquille brewster in des moines, iowa, following the campaign with a storm to boot. shaq, what are you seeing. >> reporter: hi there. richard, you talk about who is in and who is out and we know bernie sanders is a 2020 candidate but since he's jumped into the race he's flexing the political muscles so to speak. he had big rallies in new york, 12,000 people and here in iowa he completed the first swing through the state as an official candidate. so he's trying to show he has energy around him and he has a lot of support. i spoke to one of his supporters this time around, her name is sarah craig. listen to what is he said about what she likes about what she's seeing about this candidate bernie sanders. >> loved bernie sanders back in 2016 and the momentum he's
getting, i'm so happy that this is happening. this is our revolution and i'm excited about it. >> reporter: what does he have to do differently around this time to win the caucus. >> he's getting out and talking to people. it is that grassroots campaign and he's doing it. >> reporter: now one thing different from sanders here in iowa is he's making that direct appeal to rural voters and said vermont is a rural state just like here in iowa, so he's tieing his economic message and his economic message of breaking down the big conglomerates and focusing on family farmers and the champion of the working man and channeling that here in iowa. he picked up 7,000 volunteers here in iowa and then heads to new hampshire and then later this week in south carolina. a state that kind of stopped his momentum so trying to get a early start there and put his feet on the ground and talk to people there. richard. >> a lost folks watching bernie
sanders. shaq, thank you so much. shaq brewster on the road for us with the bernie sanders campaign. thank you, sir. let's turn to our panel. susan del percio and republican strategist, basil smikle from the new york state democratic party. we have 20, 30, different potentials we can talk about today. i do want to start with this. what did you like this week, of all of them, and what they may have done on the road or said this week? >> i don't necessarily like it, but listening to former governor hickenlooper this friday on morning joe was very shocking. >> you were there? >> i was there. >> and i do have that because our team -- they are a crack team and will play what happened since you bring that to our attention. hickenlooper. >> are you concerned about some factions of your party embracing socialism? >> i think there is -- the democratic party is a big camp and that is one of the things i've loved about the democratic party, they're all kinds of ideas. >> well would you call
yourself -- would you call yourself a proud capitalist? >> oh, i don't know. again, the labels, i'm not sure any of them fit. >> he was asked that three times and you were sitting on the panel. >> and my mouth dropped. he opened up his statement, the governor did, by saying america has an extreme case of divisiveness and i couldn't agree more. that we were in a crisis as a nation. and he's a democrat that i was looking to since i'm not a trump supporter that was looking to see what he to offer. but here is a successful business person who created his own business and had a whole career in fracking and such. he could have just said there are deficits in capitalism that i think we need to address because he was talking about something about addressing the working poor and middle class, that it is not working for them. but to not -- what was heartbreaking to me was to not just say, yes, i believe in
capitalism and we need to fix it. >> working on messaging is what he's doing. surprising given he's a former governor. >> and he worked with republicans. >> not his first rodeo. bazil, fundraising. we were just talking with bernie sanders. talk about the money man, that is bernie sanders because he can raise the money. who are you watching for in terms of getting the dollars, because we're in that phase now? >> we are. money is the first primary. i've said it and we say so you definitely have to watch it. he's extraordinary at fundraising so he'll be very difficult not just to beat but to sort of keep pace with and the fact he'll have a lot of money and i imagine it will continue to keep him in the race longer. that said, what is interesting and what i've been watching this week is the biden watch. will he or won't he? but it seems like he's edging closer to that point. >> you say yes? >> i think he will. i think he will at this point. because i think he's gone too far in and it may be at a place where he is sort of keeping people at bay because he wants to get in and having said that,
i think the fundraising will be interesting at that point because will a not of non-bernie folks and traditional party donors say let's focus on him. >> and supposedly the former vice president is huddling this weekend with wife and others and the report that he doesn't like to fund raise and hasn't been good at it. >> and what is interesting, when bazil brought up fundraising, it clicked in my head, elizabeth warren said she would watch what other people raise, where they raise money from. so while she's doing small donations, no business, very -- being very selective you have cory booker and kirsten gillibrand with a new york final base they go to. so i think we're going to see stories coming out of who is giving which money. >> who will take the superpac money or not. >> technically you can't do it. but then again to biden, he doesn't like to raise money. so he's going to kind of go to the faithful, if you will.
>> of all of those that are out there and their different rankings and i have one here from nate silver and from rolling stone and -- and it is sort of like every week you could see how they are going up and down. and when you see that you have to watch the money. but is it at all -- trying to put it together and was said by hickenlooper, it is a huge tents and we saw what happened when it came down to the resolution against hate. that showed sort of the collective -- >> of bringing together -- yes. >> so who is the practitioner. is pelosi the only practitioner showing this is how you might do it. >> it is a great example because she's been able to put forth -- talking about a lot of policy and that is very important. if you look at folks like elijah cummings and even jerry nadler, from their point of view as chairs of the important committees, they are doing really important work and it looks like we actually -- we actually have our stuff together, which is great. it is a great feeling.
now, having said that -- >> that is a big statement. >> it is a great feeling to see the party working because it proves that we can govern. that is very important. and i think to a point you made earlier, what will be interesting in this cycle is how the candidates differentiate on policy. you started to see elizabeth warren talking about breaking up tech companies and bernie sanders has -- is sort of issue on this reppar isarations and t comes back to him so the nuances are important as we get further into -- >> susan, quickly. >> on nancy pelosi, she recognizes the loudest voice doesn't mean it represents most people and i that is what -- and i think that is what the candidates now knead to realize and in a primary or general election. >> that is the playbook. they are trying to figure out the right playbook. >> yep. >> susan, bazil, too much fun with you here. speaking of south by southwest, if you are heading to austin this weekend, our nbc
colleagues will be there talking about topics like the importance of investigative reporting and how fake news spreads online and self driving cars. for event information or where to see them in austin, follow nbc news on twitter. now coming up, how a recent criticism of a fox news white house may have led to bill shine's surprise exit. great news, liberty mutual customizes- uh uh - i deliver the news around here. ♪ sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
now at the top of the hour, we told you about the president claiming his former fixer michael cohen asked for a pardon. you remember that. under oath cohen said he never asked for that. and so hence we have another he said, he said battle. whether that is true or false, we know the president has made more than -- we keep count here on saturday, 4500 false claims since taking office according to the toronto star. if you go to the washington post, the number is a little bit higher, breaking it down day by day. on the first year the president on average made 5.9 false claims, more than doubled his second year in office and this year it is still on rise. toughly 22 false claims each and every day. meanwhile, another shake-up at the white house. bill shine, former fox news
co-president lasted 246 days, counting that to. in his job as white house communications director. shine issued his resignation and his next move will be working on president trump's 2020 re-election campaign. his resignation to that post brings the total to five. let me bring in now claire atkinson and media editorond jordan fabian the hill white house correspondent still with us. claire, what is the read behind why this happened now? >> well, i think it is very interesting this is happening just days after the new yorker storer which told us things that we already know but put it altogether and shocked, i guess, a lot of democrats that perhaps haven't -- underestimated the extent to which fox news and the white house is in bed together. whether it is bill shine's financial disclosure being paid $8 million by fox and was due all of the bonuses to come, and
so i guess that put the heat on fox and bill shine in some ways is the victim here. >> who pulled the lever. >> that is a good question. >> there are other stories out there where it doesn't look very good for the white house, to be doing such things or hiring such individuals. we have a list of the fox news employees that we hired by president trump starting with john bolton and others. there are ten or so here that we know of. >> i will say, richard, this move took people at white house by surprise. but i will also say that president trump has a tendency to wear people down. and bill shine was in a very precarious position in the white house, white house communications director. this is a president who believes he's his own best spokesperson and somebody in that position will take a lot of the heat when the president is getting bad press and bill shine certainly bore the brunt of that and now he's moving on to the re-election campaign as a senior adviser. what that actually entails we
don't know right now but this all points to the president getting tired of somebody and forcing them out. >> was this -- as we look at potentially a new white house communication director, what does this say about the state of the white house, claire? where it might be going next? will there be another communications director. >> there is no need for one if you ask me. the president does his own communications. he does it pretty well. i think we haven't seen the last of bill shine. he's going to this campaign 2020. it is interesting to note that omarosa was offered that job and she decided she didn't want to sign a nondisclosure agreement and took a pass on it. so perhaps bill shine is going over there and maybe we'll hear no more from him. who knows. >> as a white house correspondent here, jordan, what is your thought about the future of the briefings? >> now that we don't have a communications director in the white house? >> you make a good connection
there, richard, because bill shine's entrance into the white house in july of 2018 is the moment we saw the briefings go away and it is going to be interesting to see under the next regime whether that is another communications director or somebody else whether those will come back. we know that sean spicer and sarah huckabee-sanders have both been under the spotlight because the president watches the briefings closely and the question of whether they will come back will be a tough one for whoever is in the that position next. >> one of the legacies of bill shine is the fact that he banned cnn reporter and fox news itself said we stand with cnn. this can't be happening. these guys have a right to ask questions and bill shine banned one of the reporters in jim acosta as well. >> thank you both. we will see what will happen in the coming weeks in terms of whether we'll have another communications director or not. claire and jordan, thank you so much. democrats leading investigations of their own now into president trump. that may lead to increases scrutiny of president trump's
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prevagen. healthier brain. better life. documents and yet more documents. democrats on capitol hill, they're using the new investigative powers to ramp up probes into the president and asking for documents. now this week house judiciary chairman jerry nadler said his committee will request documents from 81 sources in the trump
orbit, including donald trump jr. and trump organization cfo allen weisselberg and john kelly in addition to the sweeping investigation into major issues surrounding the president and including security clearances given to his family and campaign finance violations but the republicans say all of this oversight will backfire on democrats at the ballot box. joining us now, chris lu, a former assistant to president obama, managed his cabinet and later deputy labor secretary and ash wright. chris, let's start with you on this. the -- the criticism is, we've put it together and had two very large oversight dumps, one this week and one at the beginning of the year from cummings' committee and they say it is too much. >> and the reason there is a lot is because there have been no
virtual oversight so this is a catch-up to what should have been done over the last years. and looking at how unprecedented some of the actions are. one of the document requests deals with security clearances. we know from nbc own reporting that not only ivanka trump but jared kushner could not get clearances because of security concerns and there may be as many as 30 other people in the white house who got their clearances despite concerns raised by career officials. so there is a lot of oversight but what is happening in this administration is frankly unprecedented. >> ash, what is your reflection on the requests made so far and you heard the democratic side say nothing was happening before and we're catching up? >> sure. well i think, as you look back through president trump's history and his administration, it has been nothing but investigations. and i understand that democrats in congress want to kind of keep an arm's length from the report or the mueller investigation and say now we're just getting our swing at it, but perceptually
the american people are kind of seeing this as like an ongoing just continuous investigation of president trump. and if you look at -- there was a recent washington post poll that said only 46% of people believed that the democrats won't go too far. meaning that a majority of the country believes democrats will well efr -- overstep bounds in investigating the president and when it is 81 people they are requesting documents from and that speaks to the narrative this is more about just finding something against the president even if there is not anything there to begin with. >> and the trump investigations, we enumerate, maybe six on screen for you. but the person who probably watches him more carefully than all of us or the same level as the other two guests here, would certainly be you, austin. how are things going? how is the process working? >> well, i think first and
foremost more than criticizing jerry nadler for the number of letters he sent this week, let's celebrate that congress is back in the oversight game. over sight is a constitutional obligations and it is chebs a-- it is checks and balances and what the president is feeling now is the end of impunity. it is extremely good news and positive news and the volume of congress's work speaks to the volume of concerns they have about the president. the other thing i would point out is that even with 81 letters this week, this congress has -- is still far behind previous congresses in the oversight zeal, including congresses run by critics like jim jordan and they have a lot to do and fraud they need to investigate, the president seems to have committed it to get into office, he continued it while in office and then he appears to have abused his powers in office to go after political opponents. it is a lot. >> what is the next step? subpoenas is what everybody said and when will that happen and
how will they precipitate that. >> and i think it is 81 notions and nadler and his staff bitten off a lot. every one of the witnesses and entities will fight back and try to accommodate down to something reasonable but at end of the day the congress has the authority to get the information it needs to lead to finding the facts and changing the law and ultimately making existential decisions about our democrat. >> and chris putting on your hat when you were in oversight on the hill, one of many of your titles, what is that process like? and the staff, that is the -- the question that austin is alluding to here, that is a lot when you have 81 in the latest dump. >> it is not only 81 but that will grow with each different policy issues for instance the security clearance issue seems to have gotten bigger and bigger over the last couple of weeks but it is a negotiation between two co-equal branches and subpoenas are not often issuesed
and never held in contempt of congress and the president never invoked presidential privilege but this is happening because this president hasn't followed the -- the procedures that previous presidents have followed. if he had released his taxes and followed conflict of interest rules, this wouldn't be necessary. >> ash, what is the best way for the democratic-led congress to undertake oversight where the middle, the moderates, the establishment if you will on left and right, will say this is done right. >> yeah, well, i think they need to be very transparent in what they are doing. i agree with chris, there is very rarely ever subpoenas and i think they need to be careful with that. and then honestly, they need to -- i think they need to look at things that are of law. so for example the tax returns were mentioned but that is a modern norm in presidential elections and not a law or an actual requirement and so i would say that they need to stay based not on what they
politically think is the best talking point but what is actually going on inside of the white house. >> austin? >> i would agree that the democrats in congress should be transparent. i think that is something that jerry nadler did this week. he shoed the american people where the investigation is going and every one of the letters have roots in congressional testimony, mueller's investigation, or people who have pled guilty or have been charged. the other thing that i would point out is that facts don't have a political party. and i think this congress has demonstrated a commitment to finding facts and letting them fall where they may. and if that is the touch stone, we could all sit back and trust the process a little bit. >> and the process led by the speaker indirectly or directly, and we go to you on this, chris, is not necessarily been very straightforward, ome because she has a democratic congress that has many different voices and
i'll shift gears a little bit here but i want to get your response of representative ilhan omar and her comment that has been called anti-semitic by critics and now her comments on president obama, not being favorable of what he had done. and i'll just read what she said. we can't only be upset with trump. his policies are bad but many of the people who came before him also really had bad policy and they were just more polished than he does. we don't want anybody to get away with murder because they are polished. >> i'll tell you, i take offense to that -- >> you might have -- >> having to work for president obama and senator obama. there are a lot of voices in the democratic party and these were across the board ill advised comments by congress woman but we spent time on the comments of a freshman member of congress and over looked things happening in this congress. this week house democrats passed a sweeping ethics reform campaign finance bill that
unfortunately got overshadowed in a lot of this noise surrounding these comments. fortunately the republicans threw a lifeline and 23 republicans voted against the resolution so the entire message is muddled but by next week we'll be on to other noise. >> we'll be on to other things. you have a good weekend. thank you. >> thank you. first she wanted to break up big banks, now she wants to break up big tech. presidential candidate elizabeth warren newest battle and what taking a sledgehammer and facebook or amazon might do to you. or amazon might do to you. away, i'm connected with my boys. just pull on over, see my son's game, and i'm having a ball. (vo) there when it matters. buy the new galaxy s10 and get a galaxy s10e on us. to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom's pain from moderate i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us... ...which is kind of, a lot. and if that pain...
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fidelity wealth management. . a massachusetts senator and presidential hopeful elizabeth warren made a name for herself for taking on big banks. now she has her eyes on big tech. >> what this is about is about competition. it's about all those little businesses and startup businesses and entrepreneurs who want to put their products on amazon or on google and who are at an enormous excessive disadvantage. >> she unveiled a plan last night at a rally in new york city aimed at breaking up technology giants like amazon, google, apple, and facebook.
join us now jonathan tap lynn, how facebook google and amazon cornered cult and undermined democracy. jonathan, i guess based on your writings that you and elizabeth warren may share more of your perspective on how to address tech. >> you know, i think the proposal has one really strong idea, which is this whole idea of the amazon, google, and facebook are what she calls platform utilities, meaning that they are on both sides of the business. amazon is a place where you can go find products but also amazon is more and more selling its own products whether it's white label products or whether it's selling on amazon prime video, programming made by amazon. what she wants to do is break those two things apart because, as the european union showed
last year, google on its supposedly neutral search platform was constantly promoting google's restaurant recommendations, google's airplane reservations systems over those of other third parties like yelp or something. so they up fined them $2.7 billion for that. >> the european union is a model of benchmarks in terms of of how they're dealing with tech. many would say they're doing it at least in a thoughtful way, where in the united states the discussions haven't been pushed forward or begun in smart policy ways. >> yeah. all the leadership is coming out of europe, a woman named margaret was the competition commissioner there has really led the charge. quite frankly, there's been so much bad faith yelling about, oh, she's going to break the
internet, you know, when she proposed a privacy regulation gdpr, nothing happened. now google and youtube are pushed back so hard against her article 13, which is essentially saying if you're programming gets repurposed on facebook or google, you should get a little something for that. and so i think it's sad that all the leadership is coming out of europe, but it could be that in a few months we're going to see a big fine from the ftc on facebook and, obviously, what warren is proposing is a good start. >> jonathan, some might say if you're going to break up amazon, should you break up walmart? >> look, here's the problem. i am somewhat skeptical about breaking up monopolies. at&t was broken up in 1984 into seven different companies.
and by 2005 it was back to two. so the problem of trying to keep monopolies from becoming duopolies is hard in this country. there used to eight standard oils in america, and now there's exxon. the problem is that these things when an administration comes in it's very tough and another one comes in and it's very loose. >> i give you one wish and you have to express it in 15 seconds, but what would you do to fix this? >> look, i think the platform utilizes thing can pass because i think it'll have bipartisan support. it's just not fair that amazon gets to rig the game or google gets to rig the game to benefit their programming. >> write your own rules is what the criticism has been so far. >> that's the one i think can get done quickly.
whether google needs to be broken up and has to sell waze won't make a difference to google. >> thank you for your expertise in this space. have a very good weekend. >> my pleasure. coming up is "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton. julian castro, presidential candidate. we'll be right back. castro, pr candidate. we'll be right back.
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. that wraps it up for us this hour on msnbc% i'm richard lui. thank you for being with us. see you next saturday at 4:00 p.m. you can follow me on facebook and twitter. now i turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lede, paul manafort receives less jail time than thousands of america's nonviolent prisoners for defrauding the nation to the tune of millions. and for that, just 47 months. less than four years. that was the ruling from a federal judge in vaerirginia wh he was sentenced thursday for financial