tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC March 12, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
consider the ground breaking study in the food research bacterial transfer of blowing out candles on the birthday cake. blowing out candles resulted in 1400% more bacteria compared to icing blown on. can't argue with science. thank you senator romney for standing up to the critics. you truly have shown us the light. happy birthday. that's all we have for tonight. the beat with ari melber starts right now. i had a different take. isn't every one in their own way a little weird and sooner or later if you expose your authentic self, your weirdness will come out. this is just who he is. >> you and i prove this every single day. >> or just thinks we're weird. >> yes, exactly. >> yeah, maybe being on camera or exposed gives you more
sympathy. it does look a little germaphobic but it is who he is inside. >> you have to be who you are. ncht we have a big slow. the congressman leading the charge to still impeach donald trump joins me on the beat. pushing back how some are interpreted what speaker pelosi was saying in raising the bar in what it would take to impeach. also, the al capone theory gaining grown. they might get trump on tax violation relating back to his hush money payments. subpoenas were issued to
deutsche bank. trumps effort to try to buy the nfl's buffalo bills in 2014. they asked deutsche bank for loan application, mortgages and lines of credit. all of this coming out of what trump said under oath that trump lied about saassets to deutsche. >> did the president provide inflated assets to bank in other words to help obtain a loan in. >> these documents and others were provided to deutsche bank on one occasion where i was with him in our attempt to obtain money so that can put it on the buffalo bills. >> the bills. as the probe goes on they are arguing there may be enough evidence to indict trump. intelligence chair adam schiff says if they can charge cohen for making the hush payments why
not charge the president too? >> it's very difficult to make the argument that the person who was directed and was coordinated should go to jail but the person who did the directing and koord fl -- koorcoordinating does not. i think that is in favor of indicting the president when he's out of office. it appear there's no shortage of evidence. jim, what does it mine for investigators to grab this bank stuff and i think a lot of people might wonder what were they waiting for in. >> it's a cooks the books investigation. you have assets that trump organization owns and those
assets should have values that are the same if you're putting them on your taxes on an insurance policy or borrowing against them. what cohen's testimony is they have two sets of valuations. they would get a lower set to the tax authorities to pay lower tax and pump it up for banks. >> what you're referring to is lying and stealing. >> that would be another way to put it. if you under pay your taxes, you're stealing from other taxpayers. paul manafort defrauded all of us paying taxes honestly. that's the stealing. do you think at a certain level some of the new york folks should have been on this earlier. you have to understand people will look at this say and the trump org has been widely known to be shady for a long time. what were you waiting for ? if you're doing it because he's president now, is that
suspicious? >> there will be people that cry political foul over this but what doesn't the prosecutors have. they didn't have michael cohen's public testimony. that was an airing of information that no one had yet. i don't really think it raises red flags. >> you're saying it's flipped when you have an insider basically spilling the goods you have much more support. they would be accused of over reaching. >> maya, take a listen to adam schiff talking about some of the reasons that donald trump might want to run for re-election. >> i'm sure that it is occurred to the president that there is a prospect he may be indicted when he leave office and the longer he stays in office and if he's
able to avoid the statute of limitations, that's a consideration that's not escaped him. >> is that fair point or are the democrats sort of girding for the idea ta muhat mueller may n have the goods based on the rumors we're hearing and now they're just saying things like that to take a shot at limhim? >> it literally could be true. if you have a policy where the department of justice says we will not indict a sitting president, if you have the house majority leader saying we won't institute a process of impeachment unless we know we can get the conviction out of the senate. that he's saying if these things are all true then the net result would be he could game the system. he could literally run for re-election and avoid potentially prosecution if he's
in office long enough. the way i hear that is an actual public discussion we need to have about how we go about in such historic times. we really have not had a president under this much scrutiny under this number of potential crimes. how does the public have an accounting. if the public re-elects him and his intention was to avoid prosecution, what does that mean for the country. i think that's actually an important conversation for a politician to raise. it's a national one. >> jason, important but also kind of profoundly disspiriting. >> yeah because if the president is running for re-election and does so and is successfully gets re-elected with the people he's been investigated as to whether or not he's working with. that's the real question.
the idea of trump running again with the possibility he's conspired with foreign entities in other words to ensure or put the thumb on the chances of being re-elected brings his running for re-election into question. it's really key. donald trump probably does get re-elected because most incumbent prosecuesidents do. a lot of democrats are wisely saying, there's a good chance this guy could stay in office we can sit back -- >> you're saying people listening to this. you're not saying what you're rooting for. >> oh, no. >> it's early. a lot of change but historical trends, the nature of incumbency, you see him as on a path to -- >> re-election, yes. the vast thmajority of sitting presidents get re-elected. the democrats would be foolish
to be banking on impeachment and anything else. this guy is likely to be re-elected to be president in 2020 and democrats needs to be prepared for constantly investigating limb ae ining him him accountable. >> well, i'm going to disagree with that in the sense that we don't know what will happen. this is unprecedented times. we simply -- if he's up for re-election we just never seen the american people presented with this set of questions and we don't know what will be public by then. the house does have oversight authority and will be conducting that. roger stone is going to trial. what that means is, that's public. i'm not disagreeing with the fact we don't flow whatknow wha
to happy ben but the democratic shouldn't be engaging in oversight other than to bring forward the facts. >> i think that's important. it's the difference of congressional oversight to the narrow criminal probe. witnesses literally know more than other people. doesn't mean they are truthful or great people but you have to talk to witnesses. i interviewed a witness in the mueller probe. steve bannon is a key witness. i sbrer viewinterviewed him for mueller did. he said this back in the day. it's all about money laundering. their path to f' trump, that's how he talks goes through manafort, don junior and
kushner. it's as plain as the hair on your face. it goes through deutsche bank and all the kushner expletive. was he onto something? >> i think based on what we know and we don't know a lot, but there's a lot of -- there's a whiff of corruption around all of this. the old prosecutor adage is follow the money. that's exactly what they will do in this case. >> i think it's more than a whiff. it is very specifically michael cohen, as the fixer and the lawyer, name checki ining deuts bank on the buffalo bills and then it's steve bannon who is a trump ally saying they can get limb on money laundering. he is worried about it because they can do it. you add that deutsche bank happens to be a bank that's already been found by regularers to do russian money laundering. >> with the trump's saying the
russians are their primary source of financing. when you start to pair all of this together rkts th, this is people want to see as much of the evidence as possible. what is important is there's a public accounting. michael cohen made it clear from his vantage point in the trump organization, this was business as usual. >> before i let you go, i want to show something that ted lu said in response to what we broke last night. the lawyer for former fox news employee tole d us if congress subpoenas the client, it would over ride the hush agreement. congress lieu said do you think is an avenue that would make
sense for congressional democrats to look at or subpoenaing fox news employees a little farther than they need to focus. >> it would make perfect sense to subpoena sean hannity. he had a business relationship with michael cohen. there's lots of people that might make sense for congressional oversight to be in conversation with. we can't sort of clutch our pearls and say this might be unnecessary. the president seems to be engaging in a criminal empire that expands from the southern district of new york to stallengrad. there should be no area that members of congress are afraid to look into whether it's an adult film star or fox news or this administration. everybody is fair game at this point if we want the truth. >> i appreciate your view of that as a journalist. it's alleged and this is a president who has never been indicted on anything unlike some of his aides.
i want to be clear about that. thanks to you. maya, i want to keep you on another story. how a tax scheme could led the feds to donald trump. mplgt my special report tonight on senator mcconnell's refusal to do a very simple thing that could increase public safety in america. why it matters and it's news tonight. i'll get into that later. nc we go live with a democratic lawmaker who says we have to get into the i word now. >> i do not believe that an unfit president should be allowed to stay in office. later, i'm joined by chuck d. we'll talk all sorts of things president trump, politics, spike lee. that's later in the hour. you're watching the beat on msnbc. hour you're watching the be oatn msnbc. mini wasn't born ordinary. mini was born extraordinary, with more power for more fun. mini was born to do the only thing we ever wanted to do.
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we've all heard about following the money. what about following the taxes? we have donald trump signed checks for hush money payments that he confessed were crimes. they said they need testimony from trump attorneys about some of those payments. new york prosecutors saying the trump organization falsely accounted for the payments as quote legal expenses. cohen famously arranged the payment from donald trump to stormy daniels for $130,000. trump's company reimbursing him
for a series of payments. that may not be a crime on its own but could be evidence of a wider crime against trump. a former lawyer was making the case. >> the southern district of flork mnew york may be sitting there with trump's income tax cohen to re him he listed that as retainer and deducted those payments. >> is this like -- are you basically imagining an al capone situation where after everything happens he gets in trouble for tax deductions? >> perhaps. >> perhaps or as they is a in court, per snaps. al capone was jailed for tax fraud. he know donald trump knows all about al capone. who he compared paul manafort to. >> paul manafort who is a nice man. you look at what's going on with
him. it's like al capone. >> 2005 tax case. >> it's just a sad thing. it's a very sad thing for our country to see this. >> it's like al capone. it's like my campaign manager is like a convicted gangster. this is the defense. you can know that type of sympathy from the president became a punch line. >> trump does have sympathy for manafort because he tweeted looking back on history who is tweeted worse alfonse capone or paul manafort. >> trump really knows how to make you seem sympathetic. compare you to america's sweetheart, al capone.
>> you have been hot on this as a theory of prosecution. explain. >> sure. i'm only hot because it's simple. as opposed to following the money and the documents, tax cases are simple. that's why al capone got 11 years in 1931 because they couldn't get lihim on anything else so they went after him on the fact that tax returns are required. the payments that manafort amounted to $420,000. >> cohen. >> the payments to michael cohen aggregated $420,000 and required the filing of a 1099. it's a misdemeanor. we don't know whether he filed 1099 or not but it's very easy for others, including the
prosecution of southern district to determine it. they just look at the tax return. >> when you say southern district, they may not have meant something five years ago but means lot now. they are thinking of the prosecutors who threw the book at cohen and going at the national enquirer who don't take kindly to people fussing around. they would look at whether this is tax case? >> they would look at it because the tax activity occurred when donald trump was filing returns in new york. let's go to the sektd piece. the first is failure to file a 1099 but he may have filed one. it would be further evidence that he regarded this as a business expense. it wasn't an ordinary and necessary business expense. it was a payment of hush money. if the return reflected $420,000 of the payments would be a false return. >> it's interesting to hear you speak with such clarity.
what you're speaking to is the binary. so much as been was cohen telling the truth and what happened here and was manafort related to collusion. you're talking either they did it or they didn't. he's been invoking al capone to defend these folks. i wonder what it means someone like you saying it could hurt trump and someone like him saying it could help him. take a listen. >> the biggest crime you can commit in america today is to have been associated with donald trump. if you're associated with donald trump, they're going to manafort you, cohen you. they will do all of these things to you. they usually do it with the maf mafia. if we can't get limb him on the grounds wooeds like to get him on, let's go after him on taxes and business. >> let me give you the third piece of the puzzle.
i gave you the failure to file. i gave you false return. false vureturn is a three year felony. the big one is the tax evasion. if 420,000 was treated as a business expense and reduce the amount of taxable income to donald trump, that would be tax evasion. that's a five year count. the simple fact is if you gave me the tax returns for the relevant period, it would probably take me about 15 minutes to tell you, for sure, that a crime has been committed. >> you're kind of intense. other people would take 20, 25 minutes. >> you know, maybe. >> maya. >> it could also be -- depending on what the evidence might show, you can find a conspiracy to defrauds the united states as an additional set count given how and what evidence there is of agreement on how to avoid those taxes. there are additional liabilities that could be there. the thing that people should
also remember is when federal prosecutors typically do is use the tax returns to try to understand whether there's been bank frauds. to understand whether there's been insurance fraud, to understand whether or not there's other criminal violations like money laundering. to go back to your earlier point about steve bannon and your interview with him, there's a lot of things that prosecutors may uncover as a result of look at the tax returns. >> it really becomes that clue and wasn't it sean carter that said my accountants to good, i'm practically living tax free. you don't want to be so tax free that you're al capone. i'm dplglad we had this talk. >> pretty good. >> he's good. >> it's over. >> that's it. the show is not over. >> feels like a colonoscopy.
you wake up and it's over. >> people on this very set have likened the mueller interviews to a colonoscopy. i hope it wasn't that probing. when i come back in 30 second, i have a democratic congressman coming up breaking with nancy pelosi over impeachment. my special report on hypocrisy to mitch mcconnell that relates to your safety. that's next. elates to your safe. that's next. imagine enjoying a spicy taco. now, his world explodes with flavor. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day all-night protection. can you imagine 24-hours without heartburn? why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today.
there are all kinds of trump scandals that consume washington. one of the most impactful coming out of d.c. is a potential breakthrough on gun safety. the house passing two bills strengthening background checks closing the loophole relating to that infamous mass murder at a black church in charlesto n. >> it's something all members of congress should have the courage to change. >> the the days after the emmanuel shooting i was there in the community dealing with their pain and loss and america deserves better than this. >> on this vote, the yays are 228 and the nays are 198. the bill is passed. >> those 228 votes would close this loophole that many say paved the way for dylann rooff to buy a gun that he used for that mass murder which scarred
america. >> the gunman opens fire in a church killing nine people. >> among the victims was the church's pastor. >> he re-loaded five different times. he just said i have to do it. >> the city is in mourning. the state is in mourning. >> no one will ever forget there night. >> still in a state of shock trying to seek and find understanding. >> the heart and soul of south carolina was broken. >> there's something particularly heartbreaking about the death happening ain place i which we seek so llace and peac. >> and soon the processing of another shooting turned to the gae gathering of stark facts. americans learned how dylann roof got his gun in first place.
the answer is as illogical as maddening high pressure his background check would have barred that gun store from selling him one. under a very lax loophole when the fbi results do not come back within three business days, felons who could not buy guns under law are automatically cleared to buy a gun. even though congress agreed ori guns, there's a delay. that's what he did when his become ground check didn't arrive in time. many people who make laws. the laws that allow the convicted felon like dylann roof to buy a gun that congress
already said on record, fno debate, he should never get to buy. lindsey graham, at the time, said he was praying for the victims. >> for what did you pray, may i ask? >> for comfort in healing and understanding to those who have suffered in a way that most of us can never imagine. i don't know how they get through this but we all love them, they will. >> that love is certainly welcome. public safety is never limited to expressions of love or thoughts or prayers. what do some of the senators say when it comes to implemented the law that they did pass that supposed to bar the felon. there was an opportunity to close that loophole and gop leaders blocked floor vote on that issue. i want us to all as we learn from what's happened to keep that contrast in mind. you recall these senators denouncing the murderer while knowing they then went onto block the very vote that would
have prevented that murder, that felon from getting his hands on an instrument of murder. >> the hateful and racist actions of one deranged man have changed nine families forever. >> our hearts go out to the family who is have been affected by there awful tragedy. >> we should pray for the families who lost loved ones. >> public safety laws to prevent thatgetting his hands on a gun. it was same senators who blocked the loophole. you go back to when there was another floor vote back in 2013. take a look at the same senators you just saw voting it down. >> mr. scott, no. >> mr. graham, no. mr. mcconnell, no.
sflar >> most gun owners support these checks but the nra opposes them and the senators a ratings depend on picking the gun lobby over its members. the fact is, those are the votes nak make it easier for felons to get guns. gun violence is killing more people per capita in the united states than any place on earth. more than 36,000 of us a year. is this the same old story. is anything different tonight? yes. in this new congress there's a majority in the house to tighten up these background checks. the last time there was a vote, we can tell you there was a majority in the senate from doing the same thing.
look at there, when a majority of senators voted pass the background check, some of the headlines say the senate rejected background checks but actually the news was a majority in the senate succeeded in a coalition to pass background checks with 54 votes that republican filfilibustered. it's a story about a majority blocked by senate rules and a leader who deploys them with an iron grip. who explained why bills with lots of support still don't get floor votes. >> because i get to decide what we vote on. >> he gets to decide. tonight we asked senator mcconnell's office whether he will decide to hold a vote on that bill and tonight his officer says they don't have any announcements beyond this week's
schedule. no vote yet. mcconnell is facing a congress that is increasingly united against him on these background checks. a kcaucus of senator may feel compassion are voting down the most basic bills to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons who carry out these shootings. in d.c. this is not considered one of the top stories now. given the house vote and the rate of mass prurmurder and the preventable part, maybe this should be one of the top stories in washington right now. >> i don't know how they get through this but we all love them, they will. >> mr. graham, no. >> our hearts go out to the families. >> mr. mcconnell, no. >> we should pray for the families who lost loved ones. >> nasenators voting in the negative, cruz. voting in the
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speaker pelosi making waves and al green making waves right back. he's broken with her about setting the standard for impeachment. here you were on the house floor today. let's watch. >> i believe that my country is worth liberty and justice for all. i believe it's worth government of the people, by the people, for the people. our country is worth it. because our country is worth making real these great and noble ideals, i do not believe that an unfit president should be allowed to stay in office. >> congressman, thanks for being here. what is your argument against speaker pelosi who said the standard should be high and require republicans regardless of the mueller findings to mover forward on any consideration of
impeaching president trump. >> thank you for having me. i appreciated the last story you presented. >> thank you. did you have a view on that? what should they do and we can turn to the pelosi discussion. >> the senate should do the righteous thing. this is an opportunity to deal with that loophole that we call the charleston loophole. it should be closed. i was at the church at that funeral. this is where president obama spoke. the thing i remember most vividly is some of the persons who were harmed and their expressions of forgiveness. i will never forget the haunting voice of the lady who said i forgive you. this person had lost a loved one. she said i forgive you. that means something to me that people would have that kind of love in their hearts.
thank you for the story. i do apologize for usurping your time. >> not to make light because it's very important what you're mentioning but you can reclaim your time as they say in the house. it's a story we'll keep on. turning to why you're in the news on the house floor. walk us through why you're breaking with your own speaker. >> thank you. this has been the position i've held now for some time. mr., ma many, many weeks. i went to the floor much earlier and i explained that i thought the president should be impeached. a good many people agree. those who duffiffer with me, i understand. i love my country. because i love my country, i believe that we must not allow political expeediency to trump the moral imperative to do the right thing. i don't think we should allow an unfit president to remain in office. many people will talk about his
unfitness and go so far to say he should be impeached but not want to take that final step forward. the constitution allows it. it's something that it demands. >> that's what i want to ask because we heard the other side of the case from leadership who works with speaker pelosi as one of your leaders. let me put up on the screen the public support here has been slightly rising for impeachment. here in march up to 42%. it's not a snap poll that should determine this. i wonder what you think of speaker pe low's argument that you shouldn't go forward unless you have the senate republicans ready to join you. i wonder whether you think that's backwards do you think in
a way the speaker has it backwar backwar backwards? >> here's what i think. i looked at some polls cerecent and the indication is the republicans would not vote to impeach the president by some 60% plus. if mr. mueller should find there was some sort of collusion. they would not support it. i don't think we should wait for help be that is not coming. i believe we have a large pla jor -- majority for a reason. people expect us to do what is right for the country. a right thing for a country that has president who is causing harm to society is to remove him from office. this is what the framers of the constitution intended. >> have you spoken with the speaker about it there week? >> i have not spoken with the
speaker about it there week. i intend before presenting articles of impeachment to send a communique out to the members, of course the speaker would be included. they would have an opportunity to make decisions. i don't whip people. i say the people, vote your conscious. i think that this is something that is so important that we all ought to make a personal decision as the how we proceed. i will vote my conscious. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, what is next for paul manafort? he faces a sflentencing that cod deliver more prison than he got last week. chuck d. talking trump and how to combat lives from politicians, policing in america and more. that's later in the program. and more that's later in the program. the way they subscribe to movies. we don't follow the naysayers. ♪ ♪ ♪ do you ♪ love me? ♪
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we are back with roll and roll hall of famer, five time grammy nominee. chuck d. >> i'm finally here with you. two of my favorites. rachel and joy ann. here i am with you. >> we'll find rachel and joy for you before you're through here. let's listen to you and ri which he will. >> i'm here with chuck d. and a national party in the red.
>> lefrs the clinton presidency. it was for him. he's trying to make it for hillary. >> do you were a big political analyst with a following. what do you think has changed from then when you were critical of both right wing republicans but what you saw as what was wrong with the democrat party and no trump has up ended everything. >> i prefer to the hardest person ever in news and that's rachel maddow especially early in the morning at those air america shows. wildly when we worked together in 2004 this would have been unpredictable.
i think human beings clamor for truth. >> it said look, and then afterward withes, we had one. when you have spike lee looking at david duke and white supremacy, he was doing that reporting and that movie making before charlottesville. >> of course. >> what is it about the sad truth that sometimes the culture comes to these things before the rest of us? >> when i did fight the power, understand there was a fight the power done by theizely brothers just 15 years prior talking about the same conditions. it may be a long time for culture but sgaenl years, 20 years in regular real-time life.
and so people come and go but the idea is destroy the stench or the stigma that's laced inside institutions. >> there is something that lawyers and public enemy fans have in common. >> very few lawyers. oh, my god. go ahead. >> any honest lawyer will tell you -- >> how many of those? >> fair. but even if they don't admit it, they'll tell you white people and black people are treated completely differently in this country. i know very conservative republican lawyers who will tell you we see that and we have the data. last year there were two white officers convicted of murdering people for the first time in over a decade. do you view that as a shift in this progress, that there is more accountability, however
slowly it's moving? >> fly in the butter milk but technology has helped. the rodney king situation a beginning point, it was technology that led into that and unveiling the truth of the one side of the justice. >> being people couldn't deny because it's on video? >> video. now everybed ey has a camera on their phones. they're locked into it. the big screen verses the bigger screen. so everybody's web would together for more reasons than one and truth will prevail out of some of these situations. >> do you think trump will be reelected? >> i didn't thunk he was going to make it past two years so. the climate in the united states of oamerica breeds itself upon confusion. >> my last question. george thoros said the difference between a business
and a profession is tain business the only goal is money. but in the profession like medicine or journalism, there's supposed to be other values that can trump the profit motive. do you think -- >> character has a lot to do with it. >> do you worry the music business, the news business don't have enough of those professional values and just pursuing the profit? >> there's always a fight. there's a fight that balances it out. what make as fisherman fish? just to eat? then why is that person sitting in a boat going to go to the boat tomorrow because it presents different intangibles and i think people seriously in the news business want to enlighten people and forward the progress and i think they want to ad here to themselves some type of character and being that you can have character to
enhance uother people besides yourself instead of being a karblgt and inhangs yourself as an individual. and that's probably what is always a foors indulge himself in, creating the biggest character out of himself instead of having character. >> that mock as lot of sense. >> try to. i don't get in front of tv often. but the trifecta. rachel, joan and now you. >> thank you. that's good company and chuck d. is good company. >> thanks for letting me wear my shades. >> can't top that but when we come back one more thing. k one g
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weighing in on what looks to be a very busy day. that's our show for the night. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. back to the money traul. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. as house speaker nancy lohsy takes impeachment off the table, more possible wrong doing by this president. the attorneygeneral of new york has launched a new probe issuing subpoenas monday night to banks connected to the trump organization. investors bank and deutsche bank in germ an.