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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  March 13, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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. hi will, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, it is judgments day again. paul manafort back in court this morning for another sentencing on two charges of conspiracy. the spotlight now on a judge who could add ten years of prison time to last week's sentence. doubling down, the faa still says those boeing 737 max jets are safe to fly, despite more country's grounding of fleets.
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now new reporting that u.s. pilots sounded the alarm on the plane's manual calling it quote almost criminally insufficient. and growing bipartisan calls to get those planes out of u.s. airspace. >> out of an abundance of caution and frankly common sense, it makes sense to ground aircraft. >> the 737 max 8 should be grounded immediately. >> and the bombshell everyone is talking about. the fallout after federal prosecutors bust the biggest case of college admissions fraud they have ever handled. it wasn't just hollywood stars who got caught. dozens and dozens of wealthy parents stand accused of trying to trig system. >> many rich people in america are no longer satisfied with the kind of generalized rigging of america for rich people. there is this class of people who wants kind of bottle service
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rigging. >> it is a whole other level. all right. we will begin with judgment day for paul manafort, the formal campaign chairman facing a final round of sentencing in minutes. how much time will he get this time? we have the late breaking developments. but first, i want to get you caught up with where things stand at this very hour. for the second time in less than a week, paul manafort is set to be sentenced in a criminal case brought by the special counsel bob mueller. manafort is scheduled to appear in a federal court in d.c. in about 30 minutes for his final sentencing before judge amy burman jackson. he faces a maximum of ten years in prison. the sentence she hands out could be served at the same time or in addition to the 47-month prison term manafort already received in a virginia court last week from u.s. district judge.
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the t.s. ellis. both cases were filed by counsel miller. and it was connected to manafort's work for a pro russia political party in the ukraine. >> that work predated the tenure of several months on trump's 2016 campaign. paul manafort has been behind bars last summer after judge jackson revoked his bail following allegations that he tried to obstruct the special counsel's russia investigation while he was under house arrest. she also sided with prosecutors last month who sid manafort violated his plea agreement by lying over and over to prosecutors and the fbi after he promised to cooperate. all of this comes as we get new status reports about another target of special counsel mueller. former national security adviser, you remember this guy, michael flynn. laurels for the special council filed their report last night announcing flynn's cooperation
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is now complete. but in that same filing, flynn's attorneys are asking for a 90-day delay in his sentencing. he has been cooperating with prosecutors in a virginia separate case against two former business associates, who are accused of illegal lobbying for turkey. the special council's office did not take a position on flynn's request for a sentencing delay. mueller's team has recommended and this is important, recommended that michael flynn receive little if any prison time at all. i will go live to washington, d.c., where nbc news' intelligence and national security reporter, my friend ken dulaney is outside that courthouse where he will be sentenced. deja vu all over again, are you in virginia. we thought paul manafort was in for 19 to 24 years. it ended up 47 months. what are we going to see today? >> reporter: well, stephanie, as
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much drama and controversy there was at that sentencing hearing, today is the day manafort will learn his actual fate. how long he spent in prison. as you said, judge berman has the position that she can tack on years, which after good behavior and time serves ends up being 2.5 years, the way this unfolds is that the lawyers from both sides will make their arguments. the mueller team will repeat the argument they made in court papers that paul manafort is a hardened criminal who committed a brazen years long scheme to defraud the government, failed to pay taxes or register as a foreign lobbyist. his lawyers will argue she only here essentially because he went to work for donald trump and there is no danger of him re-offending. they will argue for a later sentence. paul manafort will have a chance to speak. one of the interesting questions will be does paul manafort apologize or express any regret, something he did not do in his
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brief statement to the court in virginia? so that's something we all will be listening for and judge amy berman jackson will pass sentence and we can expect i think -- whatever else we can expect, it will go much differently than it did in virginia last week. >> don't go inside just yet. i want to discuss this with a former attorney and senior fbi official. ari melber is in the house, msnbc legal correspondent and the host of msnbc "the beat." and also outside the courthouse, legal analyst glen kirchner. glen, i go to you first, do you think judge amy berman jackson, is she going to be tougher than we saw last week? it feels like there is a lot of pressure on her? >> yeah, you know, judge ellis handed downed i down what many saw as an unjust and unjustifiable sentence. you realize the sentencing guidelines in virginia were 19.5
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to 24 years. >> that means 19.5 should have been the lowest compliance sentence, instead, he went dramatically below that. he went to 47 months, which i think does a disservice to the criminal justice system. judge jackson has a chance to back cleanup and make this right in part. i suspect she is going to take manafort's criminal conduct and other transgressions, lying to the special counsel, for example, after agreeing to cooperate truthfully. she will take those very seriously. not only do i think she will give a fairly lengthy and consecutive sentence to the virginia sentence, but i want to see if she says something that maybe contradicts what judge ellis said. mr. ellis says you have otherwise led a blameless life, i will be looking to judge jackson to clean that up and say something perhaps along the lines, you know what, sir, in my
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estimation, have you not lived a blameless life, judges like to impose comments in the sentence that reflects the seriousness of the criminal conduct of the offender. let's see what judge jackson says today. >> is that judge jackson's job to play cleanup for ts ellis? he was in charge of last week's sentence. we are love it or hate it. that was his job. he did it. is she supposed to interfere with that? >> what she is to do is look at the charges before her. the only time she is lawfully supposed to look at anything else is the very narrow question of whatever prison sentence she hands out, should it run together with the d.c., excuse me, with the virginia sentence or not. do you stack them or not? other than that, no, she is not to fix what she did. i think a lot of people in the country are seeing it in that light. i just don't think that's her formal rule.
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>> i know who is not seeing it in the same way is prosecutors. greg, they have urged judge jackson to view paul manafort as a hardened criminal who repeatedly and brazenly violated the law and the agreement that he had with the special counsel's office. what do you think we're going to get today from her? because that view that the prosecutors have is diametrically opposed to ba we heard when he was sentenced last week. >> that's right. good morning, stephanie, i agree that with everything glen said in terms of how the judge is likely to approach this and judges in my experience, total judges really are quite sensitive to defendants who plead guilty, admit guilt and who cooperate and sentences in those cases typically reflect that understanding and sympathy and by the judge. here, though, i think the key is the fact that the judge clearly
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believes and it is a matter of record that this defendant, manafort after cutting a deal and agreeing to cooperate, nevertheless lied to the government and that has to weigh heavily in terms of her decision today. >> all right. i got to ask you about michael flynn. he is asking for another 90 days before sentencing. robert mueller's team is saying we don't need more time for cooperation. things are complete. >> what's interesting is mike flynn was always wrapped up in russia stuff. it doesn't mean inclusion, these were leads they were clearly tracking down under their mandate to figure out whether there was an ongoing effort or legally a conspiracy between people around trump and russia. the fact that bob mueller is saying they don't need eng else from flynn tells us that in their view everything he has to offer on that part of the probe is complete. given how high level that is, that contributes to this vibe and that's all it is, stephanie, is a vibe. it's not a fact. but a vibe that mueller is
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closer to the 9th inning than the first inning. why mueller is asking for more time, that's strategic caution. obviously, his folks feel he has given a lot of cooperation and the longer this goes and the tempers cool, the less likely he can be lumped in with the kwauld so-called bad guys judge jackson will look at as we discussed as someone who blatantly wantonly repeatedly violated the law and look as a good guy that tried to fix it and given credit for good time. i think it's extra cautious they'd rather have this be later than sooner. >> i don't want any of to you go far. at 9:30, the sentencing is going to begin. we will follow it all day long. now we have to turn to another developing story. the faa doubling down on its decision to allow airlines to keep flying those boeing 737 max 8 jets here in the united states. here's the thing. multiple other countries and airlines around the world are
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grounding this fleet site after that deadly crash in ethiopia earlier this week, there are new reports surfacing about several max 8 pilots here in the united states who repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the jet to the federal authorities months before the crash. nbc news' tom costello covers aviation and is live at reagan national airport. tom, call me a worry wart, you know, i was on a plane yesterday. i'd like to think, well, better to be safe than sorry. if there is all these concerns, why doesn't the faa agree? >> reporter: okay. so listen, the faa and the ntsb have taken great pride and have a success record over the last 60 years, they act on data, on science, on engineering data, if you will. and so they are insisting the data isn't there right now to justify grounding the 737 max. which by the way, american airlines and its pilots union
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and southwest and its pilots union both say they have had zero issues with the 737 max. zero. they are flying the plane. so is united in terms of the max 9 and a bunch of canadian airlines are flying the plane. we have had this global tidal wave of airlines and countries and regulators decide they don't have enough information to be confident about the 737 max 8 because of these two crashes, ethiopia and indonesia. therefore, they admit, they don't have the data, under an abundance of caution and some suggest emotion, they are putting the plane on the ground. about two-thirds of the fleet is on the ground. in the united states and in canada, you can fly that plane and the airlines are standing by it. they say they've had zero issues with that plane. now you mentioned this reporting from some pilots. we need to put that into context. there is a way for pilots to report anonymously, issues, complaints, whatever,
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observations with any plane at all. it is actually run through a na nasa database, nasa is a third party independent. there are some pilots that issued complaints over the last six months. >> that said you can type in any plane any model number, you will come up with complaints issued by some pilot somewhere, at least we should make the point that claim they're pilots, right? you can't verify that, they're anonymous. in the case of the max 8 pilots, a few of them did say the nose pitched forward and that they struggled with an automated piloting issue. some of that is similar to what happened in indonesia. but the facts are really so obscure, it's difficult to know exactly what happened, who is reporting it, when did it happen? yes, there is that anonymous database out there. i think what really matters right now is the black box and ethiopia still has the black boxes. to me that's flashing headline. ethiopia still have the black
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boxes, they have not been read out. we don't know where they're going. they could go to the u.s., to europe, we don't know. >> i appreciate your report okayen this, it's a really important story. thanks, tom. all right, put your seatbelt on, we must talk about this after the break, the largest college admissions cheating ska him to ever be prosecuted by the department of justice. the multi-million scheme was funded by wealthy marines who are now facing charges that they've bribed people and paid for cheating. here's the issue. this system already favored the wealthy. will this story change anything? we will dig into it next. you do not want to go away. plus, stephen colbert weighing in on how he thinks this whole thing could have gone down. >> the fbi was tipped off by the essay on this application, reflect on an accomplishment that sparked personal growth and/or list your parents' credit number, someone a three-digit security code.
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oh, good heavens, today we are learning new details ability an extraordinary alleged massive college admission scandal that appears to shed light on how far some super wealthy parents might go to get ahead and get their children into elite schools. the case brought to light by a massive fbi investigation involves a fraudulent admissions quote consultant. admissions to elite colleges,
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division i coaches, hollywood celebrities and prominent business leaders. 50 of them have been charged in this scheme. at the center of this scandal, a man named william singer. get to know this guy's name, a founder of a college prep company known as the key. from 2011 to 2019, officials say parents paid this guy anywhere from 200 grand to more than $6 million bucks to cheat. i will say this one more time, not coach their kid, not help them to blatantly complete the system. in some cases, singer allegedly created fake athletic profiles. he bribed coaches to accept students as recruits, students ready for this, who didn't even play a sport. like in the case of this student, this person. august, a napa wine magnet who wanted to get his daughter into usc. he is accused of hiring singer, who then sent the water polo coach at usc this photo, this
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photo is of another student. singer told this man in a follow-up conversation, you can't tell it's not her. it's athletic enough. in other cases, singer is accused of working with s.a.t. administrators to allow a third party to secretly take the exam in replace of the students or replace the student's advances with his own. here's what's more disturbing. singer used his key world non-profit foundation whose website says it's mission is to provide guidance, encouragement and disadvantagement around the world as a front so parents can pay him massive sums that get this is tax deductible. the u.s. attorney says that the colleges are not co-conspirators and that the schools, themselves, have not been charged. yesterday, singer pleaded guilty to counts of racketeering, money laundering, fraud and
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obstruction of justice. he also admitted he helped bring down his own scheme by cooperating with the fbi and wearing a wire. as the massachusetts district attorney saw it yesterday, the real victims are the qualified, hard working students who play by the rules. >> as every parent knows, these students work harder and harder every year in a system that continues to grow more and more competitive every year that system is a zero sum game. for every student admitted through fraud an honest and genuinely talented student was rejected. the parents charge today despite already being able to give their children every legitimate advantage in the college admissions game, instead show chose to corrupt and illegally manipulate the system for their benefit. >> well, joining me now the weigh in, "time" magazine editor at large msnbc political analyst
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and author of "winners take all." the political editor and msnbc political contributor and a professor at morgan state university and rick tyler, republican strategy ikist and msnbc political analyst. when i saw this i'm like holy cow, this is a rageing ball of fire at the heart of everything you have worked on. these parents, we know it's the system. we know that college is now a business. okay. admission officers have metrics to meet. what used to be a college admissions process is now a system. they need to up the amount of applications, they need to lower the amount of acceptances, they need to focus on this eand get their bond rating higher. we know institutionally they have to focus on possible families that can be dig donors, they can legally rig the system. i have a cool $2 million bucks, put a building with my name on it. they can get in.
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>> that wasn't enough. >> first of all i want want to thank these parents for reenacting like a book piece based on my book i have been trying to warn people about for a few years. what is so fascinating of this story is the rigging of america for decades for the rich and power. has now succeeded to such a great extent that i think certain rich people actually feel like the rigging is a commodity. because all rich people benefit from it. it doesn't make them feel particularly special to merely have things rigged in favor of them the way it's rigged for all rich people. all white people have an advantage relative to others. affluent people with better public schools have a clear advantage in that game. these people wanted what i call bottle service riggings, over and above the generalized riggings they already benefit from. it was so strikeing this guy singer really knew how to talk to them. and he says in some of these wonderful transcript, in the indictment, you know, my people, they don't want to get into the
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front door, they also don't want to get in the back door, which is giving some $10 million check that you don't know, there is no gain team. they want a guarn tee. my people want a guarantee and the fact as you pointed out that the mechanism for a lot of this was charity. it was the ruse of helping the disadvantaged. it's such an extraordinary thing. and it's important to note that while all the attention yesterday, a lot of the media attention focused on two female actresses, because we are america and that's what we are capable of focusing only, 33 people get ensnared. the most important person charged yesterday was bill mcflashen. >> tell our audience who he is. >> bill msh mcflashen. a part of the private equity firm. >> the most successful founded by -- >> if that is good this is one of the best. tpg is not only a massive
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private equity fund. in recent years as have you covered so much, there is a mounting chorus of criticism of capitalism. how capitalism works. it comes from bernie sanders, elizabeth warren. all corners. that's been outside pressure on capitalism. right? but there has been a move within some of the citadels of capitalism, you all are right about a little of this, shared values, people, conscious capitalism from whole foods, a bunch of people in the system. we can fix this we got this. don't tax us. don't occupy any of this, who was the dean? tpg started a $2 billion fund called the rise fund. >> good capitalism. >> run by bill mcflashen. >> do the right thing and make money. >> you capitalism can be used. we who built this, we can derig it. you got to the get bono.
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so bill mcflashen and bono sitting in davos in a park talking about how capitalism can lift people up. to me it is a signal moment for this new capitalism impact investing world that one of the deans of this world who said he could be a leader of helping the disadvantaged was, in fact, when he went home at night working the phones, to ensure that the same kids from africa or from ap placioia who was empowering with his fund would never be able to compete with a seat. >> he wasn't home helping his son study or getting his son into s.a.t.s. >> and they should spend more time with their children. >> jason, you are a college professor. >> yeah. >> talk to me what this means, these are these people's children. it's the ultimate vote of no confidence. they've lost their ability as a normal 17-year-old, what do i care about? what's important to me?
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what are one of the thousands of schools could be right for me? no, these parents said, let's not waist our time with an s.a.t. tutor, i don't want a vacation, let's lock you in at yale. >> this is where helicopter parents come from, great inflation comes from, this is about the parents. i want to say i got my kid into georgetown, it doesn't matter what he wants to go there, to rutgers or not. the parents want this, on top of that, they are willing to pay for their mediocre child to get into institution i can brag about. >> this is the thing. >> that child is not mediocre, the parents are qualifying you count or don't. i can't accept my child is mediocre, so i must cheat. >> stephanie, this is where the second issue comes in. i think it's a combination of class access and, of course, race, the presumption that merit that white students get that
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students of color does not. my kids talk about. my own experience, i had people calling my high school to see if my transcript was correct. i had people calling into my high school to see if i could get into chapel hill. people will tell you how their schools were called at different levels. >> that didn't happen to any of these kids, the assumption was you are right, you arich, it must somehow be okay. i do not believe under the circumstances some of these students didn't know what they're parents were doing. if you get into a school to play a sport you didn't play, you get different e-mails, different registration. >> you start school a month early. >> it's not the first time, this happens in private schools in chicago and new york, their parents can go $shopping and they say that a learning disability. this is all combined. i will say about the consequences, there is important. you got teachers in atlanta going to jail for fixing tests, a black woman 70 to jamie for ten days because she used her
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dad's address so her kids can go to a better school. you have a camilla campbell, this year in florida, has to get a lour to show she improved her own test on the s.a.t.s, every single parent will be in jail. they won't go, they are white that i are rich and have access. >> i think to your point which is very important is the university is getting a bit of a free pass here, if this is true, if what's in the indictment is true, hundreds, this guy said 801 year of students going to universities, the test scores may be harder to detect. but people who were not real soccer players who had a photo shopped face of another soccer player. they show up destined for a soccer team. are you not keeping track of lampblg numbers of recruited athletes who never end up playing the sport? so stanford, anymore, georgetown, placesly never be invited again, i think i would be curious about how far this complicity goes and who is
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untouchable in a case like that. >> that's stunning. i to poi i have to point out paul manafort's sentencing has just begun. if the system is rigged and has gone worse year after year, i spoke to a number of former admission instructors who said this isn't flawed. is there a silver lining maybe this atrocious case could crack things and make us take a look? because if this case hadn't come into focus, we wouldn't be talking about it. we wouldn't be thinking about it. >> no, it's an opportunity to unwind systematic rigging because i believe you're right, the students do know about this. these kids aren't dumb. >> right. >> nobody goes up 400 points on their s.a.t.s without studying their tushkis off. >> that's what this young lady did. >> the colleges know it, too. i'll be interested to see the admission process is supposed to be fair and equitable to everyone. now let's see if the justice
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system is fair and equitable to everyone. this is a great test case. >> i know the answer to both of those. >> i hope are you wrong. >> me too. i think this can't be overlooked. this is not a victimless crime. okay. you only have 128 spots at certain schools for athletics. there is a kid out there where golf was the only way she was going to school. tennis was the only way. >> that family was stolen from her. exactly stovmlen from her. we seen the video in the way they can operate in privilege when i think me and my kids say you got here because of ifirmtive action, because are you black. they walk around with privilege and will challenge the first person that look like me or you when we get in school. >> i got a quote so striking, from singer about something he heard from the kids. the kids go in, they have been trending at 1,100 on practice tests, you walk in, you got a 1,500. wow, so nice. how do they process it?
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>> at the end of the day. >> this quote is so telling. he summarizes what these kids say. maybe i should do that again? i did pretty well. if i took it again, i'll do better even? okay. the reason this quote is so significant is it shows how rigging leads to feelings of supreme merit in people. the more you rig things and then give people a boost they didn't deserve, the more they actually experience it psychologically as deservedness. then you end up with a country where that person 30 years from now is going to be running some hedge fund, right? and maybe raping and pill lageing in the economy, running some nursing home, leveraging it with debt. people will die a bit, overdose on debt. >> it's a nice conversation without talking about donald trump. i don't know why. >> exactly. >> and give a thrill to chartive. when someone like me 30 years from now, maybe my children, say, hold on, how is this thing work? they'll say i earned this.
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i earned this. they may not know 30 years ago they got a 400 boost. >> that is one of the reasons it's so crucial for these parents to get their kids into schools. it's not just a learning institution. it's a fast track for life. if you go to one of those schools. >> the parents are already rich. >> they're rich but they want their kids absolutely, because they want to make sure their kids are getting the same career opportunities, investment banks, recruit from five or six schools tops. if you are not in one of those schools, you end up in a non-target pile. i used to look at non-forecast recruiting. it looks like this, a giant pile that goes nowhere. if you don't have a connection, you are at the bottom of that pile. if you go to one of those schools, you will be recruited for the most elite zrichlts that's where companies go. career services is massive. if you don't have that at your school, alumni going out of their way to build or support
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near network and hire the next generation of kids, that's what will help those kids. you know that from being on the college campus. >> i see this, first and foremost. anybody that works at the university will tell you, this doesn't shop them entirely. we have seen this before. what makes them so egregious is they have attempts to rick it lat later. most have their kids apply. if fact that you are trying to bribe people up front. the fact that you are willing to break so many laws to do so, that's where the issue comes in. >> here's the stupidity. they could have rigged it ahead of time. when their koid is in 7th grade they can meet with them officer. >> make your kid good at fencing. these people aren't even smart. >> they're lazy. >> they don't have to be. the other thing about this, we read the transcript. i was saying this, we were talking about this earlier. this reads like a lifetime movie, this lori loughlin can write her own movie. this isn't just about being rich. you got to the right kind of
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people who can let you in on these kind of tricks. that's the other thing we need to break up when these people are hopefully left accountable. >> access to opportunity or do the right thing? >> i have to say, america needs to wake up. this is not the first thing, our mr. president essentially got where he got doing many similar things with his taxes and education. everybody in the silicon valley. >> who was it? >> we need to wake up and take power back from these folks. >> wow, i know are you awake. thank you, million dollar conversation. breaking right now, paul manafort is facing another judge for a second round of sentencing. we will discuss the potential of a presidential pardon and the potential fallout that would almost that would certainly create. stick around the president, he hasn't said too many bad things about paul manafort. not that i can recall. bad thin about paul manafort. not that i can recall.
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welcome brack, i'm stephanie ruhle. right now, paul manafort is inside this courtroom facing another round of sentencing in d.c. judge amy berman jackson just told the court, quote, what is happening today is not and cannot be a revision of a sentence that is imposed by another court.
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nbc news' ken delaney outside the courthouse. glenn you and i were speaking to glen kirshner. he said this is amy berman jackson's clean-up day. she says i am not here to clean up anybody else's mess. >> reporter: well, look, stephanie, i think glen was talking about as a matter of human nature and ari melber played the point that as a matter of law, it's really not appropriate for her to consider the sentence that judge ellis imposed. except for the narrow purpose of whether she will tack a sentence on and make manafort serve consecutively or whether her sentence will go at the same time. and she made that point right off the bat. it's not her job to cure a bad thing people think happened in virginia last week. at the same time, she can consider the conduct that manafort displayed. she can consider his lack of apparent remorse, unless he rectifies that today by apologizing, something he hasn't done and she can consider the fact that he allegedly committed
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crimes even after he pleaded guilty and began cooperating with prosecutors. so we'll just have to see how it goes. i'll tell you also that manafort was wheeled into court today. he is wearing a dark suit. unlike the jailhouse garb he was wearing in virginia last week. we're not sure why that is. he is wearing a suit today. >> jason, rick back with me. enjoying the conversation. washington white house bureau chief, my dear friend phil rucker. i go to you first. this comes against the backdrop of democratic infighting over impeachment of president trump. we know the president sent out a number of tweets this morning. i want to share a bit. he writes, i greatly appreciate nancy pelosi statement against impeachment. everyone must remember the minor fact they never did anything wrong while reiterating impeachment is for high crimes i crimes and misdemeanors. so is the white house worried about this paul manafort sentencing at all? last week was a huge victory for
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them? >> reporter: yeah, they're not worried insofar as they are not directly involved in the manafort sentencing. clearly, president trump is paying close againstattention. he has been for months now quite sympathetic to paul manafort, not shut the door to a pardon of paul manafort. i would expect the president will be following news today and will comment on it in due time and of course some of the questions reporters are going to be asking whether he would consider pardoning his campaign chairman. paul manafort was not some fringe figure in the trump orbit. he actually ran the campaign during a very important period in 2016. >> yeah, when the republican secured the republican nomination. >> reporter: correct. >> jason, i want to share what some democrats said their reaction to speaker pelosi's stance on impeachment. take a look. >> the only thing worse than butting the currenbut the country through the traum of
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an impeachment is the trauma of failed impeachment. >> nancy pelosi is absolutely right. let's take that off the available right now. we got a lot of research we need to do. >> i think we both believe we should wait for the mueller report. she just commented on what her standard would be once the mueller report comes out? while ruoppered murdock's post says nancy pelosi blinked. they're not saying no impeachment. they're waiting until they get robert mueller's facts. >> which is what they're supposed to do. they think he's unfit. the democrats want to impeach donald trump f. they intend they already believe he should be gone, they neg gait the impact of the mueller report. what nancy pelosi wants to do assuming they can get the report to be public. right? that's still in question. what noepgs noeps aancy pelosi democratic administration want to do. i guess we have no choice now to impeach. she has to set it up as if there is some question. there has to be some doubt before we get to the end of law and order. so this makes perfect sense.
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will you have the far left people screaming initially. but this is the wiser plan. >> initially, i'm sure the far left will. [ screaming ] a little and [ screaming ] a lot. >> impeachment is inherently a political process. nancy pelosi statement is good politics. she's taking it off the table politically so their message is we are working on the business of government. we have an agenda separate from the mueller track and impeachment and investigations. and what adam skrchiff is important. a failed impeachment will be terrible for the country. lit fame, many think the president got impeached, that means he will be removed from office. no it doesn't. you can be an impeached president and serve in office. you have a trial, the senate has to convict you. there is no way on good earth this senate will impeach donald trump is there there are investigation there is southern district of new york. there will be investigations all the way through. how about doing impeachment next summer? forcing a bun.
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of republicans during an election year to defend this president all throughout the summer during the trial when he is running for re-election. there is timing thing on this they want to wait until the perfect time to hurt the president the most. >> isn't that the better outcome anyway in 2020 for the re-election have the miami make a summary judgment. the people put president trump there likely or not. >> right. >> people voted. he's there. lets the people remove him. that's much better than that. >> i'm saying you give the people all they need by forcing the republicans in the senate to have to justify keeping this guy in office. look. i have already said, political science and history suggests the president probably gets re-elected. you can't wait if you think she a danger, if you think he has been breaking the law, colluding, lots of other people were breaking the law, you can't sit back and wait for the american people. >> phil, i just want to go back to manafort for a second. how ream is this idea of a presidential pardon?
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it is interesting that the president and rudy guiliani, one person, who they seem to never go against, well, putin, ivanka and manafort. >> yeah. you know, it's real in the longer term i think. i think it's unrealistic to expect that a pardon would be issued tomorrow or next week. i think if president trump were going to act on this, it wouldn't be for a little bit of time. i think it's certainly something he will think about. of all of the cast of characters who have become ensnared in this investigation, paul manafort is clearly the most likely to be able to secure some sort of presidential pardon. that's simply based on all of the complimentary things that president trump has had to say about manafort and the extent to which manafort has resisted the investigation throughout. >> wow. well, it's going to be a very exciting day. i think it always s. all right. we will take a big break. next, a few 2020 candidates have made it one of their biggest
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rallying cries. my next guest we spoke to presidential hopeful elizabeth warren about her plans. stay with us. before we go, i want to mention this dick's sporting goods, according to "wall street journal" the retailer will no longer sell firearms and some hunting gear at a total of 125 of its stores. they will use this to sell equipment, like sporting gear and outdoor recreation equipment. a up of this comes after dick's took a big stance in tightening up policies around gun sales last year following the massacre at stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida. big news for dick's sporting goods. florida big news for dick's sporting goods. oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice.
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when it comes to reducing thel evsugar in your family's diet,m. coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance.
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because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. venture capital in this area over the last half dozen years or so has dropped by about 20% because that opportunity to do what you do best, to come up with a great idea to work your heart out to make it happen, to be able to compete on a level playing field is taken away by these platform giants. break those things apart and we'll have a much more competitive robust market in america. that how capitalism should work. >> time now for money power politics. you have just heard elizabeth warren's ambitious plan to break up big tech. right now our country is in a startup slump. listen to this. i don't think people realize a slump with the latest census data confirming that
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entrepreneurship last year was at a near 40-year low. this has economists and investors pointing their fingers at big tech. it's difficult for startups to attract investment when amazon, apple, google and facebook are worth more than a combined $3 trillion. senator warren says her plan would increase competition by disrupting monopolies that choke off innovation. back with me is anond. this is a tale of two elizabeths. she does not embrace democratic socialism. she's a capitalism who celebrates markets that are fair and well priced. if not a capitalist that capitalists that invite to dinner. i can think of a lot of capitalists who don't think that elizabeth warren is a capitalist.
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>> yeah. i mean, what capitalists think is often -- capitalists are going to make money. their skills at thinking about society are limited just as my skills at making money are more limited. i'm not so simpresinterested in they think about politics, at least not as interested as they are. one i did the interview with warren, one of the things that was striking is we're having an argument about socialism versus capitalism. you have socialists like bernie sanders and others, but i think the more interesting argument in america is about kind of bully capitalism versus real capitalism. bully capitalism is a hand full of monopoly companies, what used to be called trusts and combinations so 0 years ago. actually not believing in capitalism at all. their version of capitalism is soviet. it depends on knowing people in washington. it depends on lobbying to have the right people on your side. it depends on there being no
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competition. if you are on tinder, and your only way of being confident of getting anyone on tinder is there be no other people of your demographic on tinder -- >> i'm the only person in my zone. >> you don't believe in the dating market. and what facebook and google want is they want to be in each of their domains, the only dude on the tinder of the marketplace. >> that's the same thing that happened in banking. regulatory capture. after the financial crisis, they all came in with big regulation and guess what. if you're jpmorgan, if you're morgan stanley, you can afford 1,000 compliance officers and afford to have more capital on the books. if you're a small mid sized bank in the midwest, you're about to go out of business. elizabeth warren's idea is not a new one. but is it possible? do you actually think there's a way to now break up facebook, whatsapp? >> absolutely.
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absolutely. the other day, yesterday, i think, i tweeted, i said if you work at one of these big tech companies she's proposing to break up and you secretly think your company or one of these other companies should be broken up, dm me. >> i'm going to guess a lot of people at instagram were going totally. let's move out. >> i got more of those than you'd think. and the reason is even some of the folks within those companies actually have startup ideas of their own. right? you're sitting there. you're making a decent wage. not mark zuckerberg money, whatever your sally is at facebook or elsewhere, and you have a couple ideas. you have an idea for a new news app or an idea for a new latte finding app because people love app to help you find coffee more easily. >> because it's not available. >> you know if you leave to go do that, you're going to be squelched out, pushed out of the app store. there's going to be an amazing
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market power the companies have. it will eat you. that's why entrepreneurship is at such a low. one of the arguments for this breaking up big tech or a new wave of policing monopoly in america is to make it easier for regular people to start regular businesses. and there's this amazing combination commissioner in the eu who is a leader in the world of this issue. what she talks about, she says you in america, it's you who don't believe in markets. she said we in europe believe in markets. right? >> we believe in monopolies. >> right. and monopolies, i can't underscore our soviet the idea of a monopoly is. >> how do the big tech companies -- >> one shoe company, one rice company. what are we now? we have one search company. does anybody use yahoo? i don't think so. >> bing, not so much. >> we basically have one company for getting nostalgic about your high school sweet hearts,
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facebook. we have one company for -- apple is not a lone company, but in a lot of what it does because of the app store -- >> and once you have one apple product in your house, your house is an apple zone. >> and amazon most significantly because it doesn't just exist in the online space, but that online monopoly has led to there being no more stores anywhere. >> can this sentiment become bipartisan? >> ted cruz is going i'm with elizabeth warren on this. >> there are a bunch of issues that let's say originate on the left that are never going to get anywhere on the right. it doesn't mean they're not important. that's the reality of the issues. certain kind of tax proposals, et cetera. although the wealth tax, her wealth tax, 51% of republicans support it. >> everybody was interested -- >> on this monopoly issue, it's an example of a different kind of issue that originates on the left. it has a lot of support on the right. including on the far reaches of
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the right. you know people who love limited government, and free markets don't love? big bossy companies that get close, get in the beds with washington politicians and keep out all other competition. >> yes. bringing together the far right and the far left on this fine wednesday morning. >> you nighted we stand, divided we fall. >> that wraps us up this hour. coming up now, more news with hallie jackson with her eye on this manafort sentencing taking place right now in d.c. >> you know it. all eyes on washington. we're following breaking news this hour on msnbc. decision day for paul manafort. he is inside federal court right now on the left side of your screen being sentenced on conspiracy charges brought by the special counsel facing up to a decade in prison. that's on top of the four years he got last week in the separate virginia case. but we don't know yet whether he'll have to serve this sentence on top of that one or at the same time. that's just one of the questions we have this morning. how much time he'll spend behind
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bars. we're wondering what is he going to say in court? will manafort apologize? is this really the end of his two-year fight with mueller? and will trump neutralize it with a presidential pardon? we have our team covering it all. we're starting in washington where paul manafort may learn his sentence at some point this hour inside the building you're looking agent rigt right now. we have a team inside court, outside court, blanketing d.c. pete williams is there. julia ainsley is at the doj building in washington. tom winter is in new york and pete, let me start with you. i understand that the prosecution is now speaking, they're talking with the judge about paul manafort, and the judge is referencing his acceptance of responsibility. bring us up to speed. >> reporter: so the critical decision that the judge has made here so far is she looks at the ci


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