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tv   Up With David Gura  MSNBC  March 16, 2019 5:00am-7:01am PDT

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nd awesome. that will do it for me on this hour of weekends with alex witt. alex will join us at noon eastern. now, it is time for "up" with david gura. >> thank you. a man charged in the city of christchurch after an unprecedented act of violence. >> it is clear, this is one of new zealand's darkest days. >> i was hearing that the shooting of the shooting of the shooting. >> the prime minister vows to change gun laws as social media faces more scrutiny for how they handled that incident. president trump signs his first veto and a message to republicans who rebuke him.
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>> congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it. paul manafort's attorneys pleaing for a pardon. >> up with me, a contributing opinion writer for "the new york times." williams a political strategist and host of sundays civics on sirius fm. clint watts, a former fbi special agent, now msnbc national security analyst. we start this hour with new zealand and the worst mass shooting in history. a man attacked people at two mosques. it was live streamed on social media. 49 are dead and dozens of men, women and children remain hospitalized in that city. we expect another update from new zealand police later today as the investigation continues.
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the man who has been charged appeared in court yesterday. he did not speak, but he did make a white power gesture in court. we start off this morning in wellington, new zealand, the capitol of the country and scott brown, the former senator from massachusetts. he joins us by phone. thank you for joining us. get us up to speed from what you are hearing on where this investigation stands. >> we'll certainly get that update later. first of all, good morning to you, your panel and viewers. certainly came out of left field. the police and other authorities have done a thorough job trying to put together the facts and understand what happened and why. a lot of questions to be asked and answered. new zealand still in shock, as i said, it came out of left field. this is not a norm or normal thing that happened here before. it's certainly having a very
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special effect. i'm not sure it is the effect the perpetrator thought he was going to have because it seems to be, where i'm going, there's an amazing outpouring of solidarity, love and affection for the muslim community and there seems to be very, very powerful vigils and other shows of solidarity around the country. >> i thank you for taking the time to talk to us by phone. i imagine you have been on the phone an awful lot over the 24, 36, 48 hours talking to the white house as well. what has your message been to the president of the united states? >> i deal through the situation room. the president made it clear, whatever assistance the prime minister and her team need from us, he is ready, able and willing to offer that assistance and we have had communications from the vice president to the deputy prime minister and then other agency heads have been communicating. it really is one of what do you
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need? let us know. we will be here to help. that's the same with a lot of countries in the region, australia, where the perpetrator was from, they are doing anything to provide any and all information regarding this guy and how he did what he did. >> that question of what do you need is something the president asked the prime minister. this is what she said about her response in a press conference yesterday. >> he asked what support the united states could provide. my message was sympathy and love for all muslim communities. >> it's been a couple years since you traded massachusetts for new zealand. how do you do what the prime minister of that country is asking for? >> first of all, i have a lot of respect for the prime minister. i have been here almost two years and had numerous interactions with her in the stretch and just the emotional
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challenges that not only she, but the rest of the country are going through, i can't imagine. how do you do that? it started here almost immediately. gayle and i went to a local mosque in our hometown and met with leaders, laid flowers down, met with other kiwis and muslims in the area to leave flowers. we spent a good, 15-20 minutes talking and, you know, getting to know these people. that's happening everywhere. you have vigils happening. you have reach outs to the muslim communities. as i said earlier in the show, i think the reverse effect is happening than what the perpetrator expected. there's a tremendous outpouring of love and attention to getting to know the members of every community. >> last question here, there's been a focus on white nationalism, the beliefs this man was not adhering to.
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the president was asked to comment on those yesterday. i think it's a small group of people with very, very serious problems, i guess. you are on the ground there. i wonder what people are saying about that phenomenon, about the beliefs this man held and holds. >> there's a lot to be learned about the perpetrator and what his beliefs were. you have a railing manifesto that had comments of a host of things. not a lot made a lot of sense. that being said, any form of extremism here in new zealand, as the prime minister referenced is not welcome. i agree with her. it's not welcome anywhere in the world. these types of actions, this is one single individual who had some type of grudge or agenda. he wanted to go kill people. you saw the video. you saw the systematic, nonchalant nature this kid, this guy walking through the mosque and shooting people without any remorse, whatsoever.
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that is cowardly. quite frankly, you know, i hope i never see or hear of him again. you can't imagine how different this country is right now. it's really a shame. the beauty of new zealand is the fierce independent people, resilient and they will come out stronger than they came into it. >> i thank you for your time. i know it's early there. waiting for the press conference that takes place at 4:30 eastern in the afternoon, 9:30 new zealand time. >> thank you, bye bye. >> the manifesto is some 74 pages in length. msnbc is not quoting directly. his writing suggests the white nationalist ideas behind violence and attempted violence influenced him deeply. he was inspired by the mass shooting in charleston, south carolina at the methodist church
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which a white man shot and killed nine african-americans. the shooting in pittsburgh where a man killed 11 members of a congregation. we have been trying to reckon what's happening in christchurch. it builds on something he tweeted in the aftermath. quote, we are dealing with angry, disaffected men, mostly white, who find purpose and community within these extremist groups who give them a hee ree narrative through violent ideology of white supremacist. getting rid of the rest of us is like white isis. let's start there. it's great to have you here with us this saturday morning. you elaborate on that a bit. >> if you look at counterterrorism experts, the dna is almost the same. the pathway toward
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radicalization. anger toward men and woman who find a community and shared purpose, gives them validation and a place in life. it's through a violent ideology. sometimes it's radical. the end goal is the same, a romantic ideal of saving civilization. there's no gray area, us versus them. the hero's narrative is important. this shooter, just like dylan roof, just like the shooter in synagogue, like the quebec shooter that killed six in the mosque, they all think they are the hero. they are the protagonist. they are the paul revere's warning the rest of us. i'm willing to do what it takes to save our civilization. when it comes to white supremacy, this manifesto, it's based on a fear of white supremacists, the white genocide fear, the replacement theory, meaning jews are head of the kabul. they use immigrants and savages
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to overpop late western civilization and western lands, they are going to weaken us. we have to attack them so we can have glory. i will say one thing because people aren't focusing on this. he cited things white nationalists use. the battle of 1683. it's always used by white nationalists. they say europe staved the empire. another battle, battle of acre, 12th century, when the christians went against and retook jerusalem against the muslims. if you look at the theme, this is a global infrastructure, which has been mainstreamed from the top down. elected officials and right wing groups. >> talk about it a little bit. there's been a focus on social media and agree this catered to that. >> sure. >> this long and winding trail, paved with ugliness went back a
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long way. this is somebody that knew how to use social media. >> we have seen it with groups like isis. what we are seeing now is on the right wing we are seeing white nationalism play out. here is the difference. if you look at al qaeda or isis, it's a central body, a network and they inspire followers. in the west, it happens reverse. inspired followers network online and builds into this infrastructure he is talking ability. we know this is more serious because the frequency and pace is picking up. when the pace picks up, that means that network is tighter and this network is mostly online and in social media. they are citing each other id logically. they are playing to each other's attacks. this, oftentimes cascades terrorism and inspires others to begin acting. you are seeing this pace quicken and pick up across the united states, europe down to new
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zealand. >> you prosecuted terrorism cases. this was a lone wolf, he did it on his own, he was crazy. let's talk about the degree to which rhetoric matters. what you hear from the president and other government officials. to your point, how does it affect those waiting in murky waters and living in the mainstream and processing what we are hearing? >> i think the take away is, our words have consequences, the words have consequences. whether it's islamic extremists that are radicalizeed by fiery sermons on the internet or people radicalized by political leaders, we have to take it seriously and consider through the meaning behind the radical ideas, not by radicals ton internet, but political leaders. those have measurable consequences. this is the same way these
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islamic teenagers were radicalizeed on the internet in years past. now they are radicalized by their own political leaders. >> back to clint on taking it seriously, companies have come under criticism here, governments under criticism as well. how do you take it more seriously when you look at facebook and google who had trouble pulling this video off yesterday. how do you bring it in and get it under control. >> 4chan and 8chan is the place to go. if you want to put something awful online, go to those places. the second participant, why do they have so much trouble getting those videos down? there's a community, a network online that continues to reupload, reupload. how do you stop that over time? it takes days to take it down. it's a very difficult phenomenon. we got ahead of it and on to it
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through al qaeda and iraq with youtube videos through today when it's islamic extremism. we have not figured it out. what is that? no one can define it. what is a video that supports political or social message versus a move to violence and move to action? i think one thing to look at is why did that video keep popping up online? there is a huge online community that puts that up. >> talk about the universality of it. when we live in brooklyn, an attack on synagogue, swastikas drawn on the walls there. we have seen it here. what do you make of this? how do you see the lines being drawn? >> first, i want to take a step back. having these conversations, it's talked about this one individual, this lone person -- >> lone wolf. >> -- lone wolf as if there
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isn't this online. we have known this. people from marginalized groups, black women, black folks in general, all have said there is a problem of these white supremacists gathering together and targeting us online, targeting people offline. we have been saying this for a very, very, very long time. it's only when something like an instance unfortunately, a mass incidence at this time that people start paying attention. oh, what happened? why didn't you see this? if you listened to people of color and listened about this rise in extremism particularly and the use of social media and how we are targeted online and how it's connected to extremism, we could have a greater understanding of how we are to tackle it. >> i just want to respond to president trump and scott brown when they said it's a very few number. fbi said the number one threat
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in america is the white supremacist terrorism. the number one plots in this country are domestic white supremacist. in charleston when you have kkk and white supremacists chant, the jews will not replace us, does that sound familiar that that's what they said. the president responds saying very fine people, both sides. however, when it's a muslim suspect, georgia state university did research saying there's seven times more media coverage when it's a muslim suspect. donald trump speaks. when it's a white suspect, it's individual, lone wolf. we have seen the infrastructure. one thing, last quick, october, synagogue shooter, he says i want to punish them. they are bringing refugees. they are going to invade us. i'm going to save my people
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before they invade us. 2018 midterms. jewish billionaire is funding the caravan bringing rapists and middle eastern people to invade us. who used the term yesterday? donald trump. >> we'll have more on the attack in new zealand coming up. president trump comes up in the offense issuing a veto. how people are breaking ranks with him, next. breaking ranks with him, next mean something. letters earned in backwoods, high hills and steep dunes. but somewhere along the way, suvs became pretenders not pioneers. but you never forgot the difference and neither did we. there are many suvs, but there's only one legend. legends aren't born, they're made.
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welcome back to "up," i'm david gura. president trump just issued his first veto. >> a tremendous national emergency. it is a tremendous crisis. people hate the word invasion, but that's what it is. congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it and i'm very proud to veto it. >> president trump sending a message to the 12 senate republicans who sided with their democratic colleagues to block the president's emergency declaration. >> i'll let them know when there's pressure. when i need your vote, i'm going to let you know. i didn't need the vote, we know it's going to be a veto and they are not going to be able to override. >> he seems confident. nancy pelosi says that will be put to a vote in the house in ten days. what is this week that began
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with the yemen resolution, ends with that piece of legislation pushing back on the national emergency and this veto. is there more of this, do you think? does it symbolize breaking of ranks? >> it symbolizes an election is coming up and people are positioning themselves, doing some political theater that they can go back in their particular districts and say, we tried. it's basically, i think, theater and theatrics, not only on the individual members, looking at what districts they represent, you can see that very clearly. but, also, for the president himself and also wanting to look like he is fighting for, you know, the people that sent him to washington in the first place. right? so, now, you can make the argument, not having this that he is just doing more of the same. he's filled and appointed people
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from the swamp in the administration and continuing the same in terms. now, we are getting to the point where we are getting closer to an election and slashing things in the budget to talk about how we are reducing, you know, our debt. i'm fighting to protect us from the invasion that is coming from caravans. this is all theater to set up as we go into the election and they are already in the ground. these are the things i'm fighting for. that is what the base -- he said, even in his language of the people who sent me here. the americans who voted for me. he's not talking about what he is doing overall for the country. he is specifically talking about the people who sent me here, who voted for me, that's who i'm fighting for. >> you have democrats saying this is laying the groundwork or adding to the groundwork for the legal challenges they are going to have. help us understand how they dove tail. >> there are serious legal challenges. we have seen challenges already brought in court by a variety of
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states. this is really new territory for us. there is not a clear precedent as to how these things are going to play it. it will be an interesting way to see how the courts are going to act as a backstop to what the president is trying to do. you have, on one hand, the democrats have the opportunity to act and try to stop it. the courts are going to provide for a really interesting, sort of safety net. we have seen it time and time again throughout the administration of courts being there to step in. hold off to see if what we are doing is legal. we are going to see interesting argue mlts play out. >> what were you watching as this played out. there was a daily opinion newsletter who said tom till indianapolis, senator of hypocrisy, north carolina. it was two weeks ago. i support trump's vision on border security, but i would vote against the emergency. how much could change in two weeks time? >> why say anything if you are
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going to turn around and do the opposite? it's just dumb and makes you look like you can be totally molded. if you are the president, he wrote it and i made him fold out of nowhere. come on. i mean i'm just astounded, benefit sasse being another one. do something. well, it's for the party. you can ride the party straight into the wall come next election. who supports this? whether it's guns, you know, and weapons. broad based americans support is not there. the wall, overall, not there. this coming budget that is going in, one of the dumbest budgets i have seen in life. we are going to cut, cut natural science foundation. this is the future. china owns us and our intelligence. all these things. what is the plan, just to get a wall? what is this really about?
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this will hurt republican districts as much as democratic districts. ultimately, is that 30% of america worth continuing to coddle and build support around? >> when you look at what was happening yesterday, he was there with kristjen neilson and the attorney general. he seems more comfortable having this fight on those terms. it's hard work making it national emergency. >> reality tv show president. he's more comfortable in front of the camera. look, this is the bargain republicans made for two years. they are going to ride and die with him. tom tillis, wins my spineless man of the week award. lindsey graham, i will give it to ben sasse and ted cruz. if i go against him, he is going to batter me.
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i have an election coming up. i need my base. that's why graham does it for south carolina. he goes without the president's support, i'm going to lose. ted cruz, same thing. every one of them knows, there's no crisis at the border. they know there's no national emergency. every one of them knows trump is the first president to use a national emergency to bypass congress. he went all in with the wall. there was a blue wave tsunami. he did a 35-day shutdown of the government, longest ever. the economy suffering, americans suffering, the republican party is splintering. he's going to stick with his base. in the next hour, the chairman of the democratic caucus is going to join us and fighting to overturn the veto and national emergency. he is going to join us here in new york. beto o'rourke makes it official, he is running for president.
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>> first, the campaign launch video. >> hi, i'm beto o'rourke and i'm excited. that's it. i'm just excited. oh, yeah, i'm also running for president of the united states. i love the united states. i love running. in fact, i literally ran eight mooils today. i'm a compassionate head nod turned into a person. because the truth is, i care. i care so much. fidelity is redefining value. introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts.
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this is "up," i'm david gura. beto o'rourke is spending a third day in iowa, wrapping up his first trip, ever, to the hawk eye state. >> i'm going to run for even, listen to everybody and try to answer every question and listen to the great suggests that come from the communities i visit. >> he's going to visit each and every county. he's speaking to supporters at coffee bars. o'rourke rented a minivan, which he is driving himself across the state. he picked up where the failed
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senate bid left off. the style wasn't new, the setting was. the setting is resinating with crowds in iowa. here is what one voter had to say to my colleague, garrett hague. >> i have been coming to these since 1984 and i have never seen a more dynamic speaker than he was and i have never seen this many people gather since walter mondale was out there on a hay wagon years ago. >> eric joins us, a senior editor for new york monthly. eric, let me read one line for you from your piece, if i could and i want to focus on authenticity. o'rourke is more than a decade into his career and is a fresh faced outsider. he is 45 and comes across as a decade younger, a toothy, boyish smile and the me tall lichl of a 16-year-old in the midst of a
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growth spurt. how is he going to keep that authenticity. as you watched him campaign in texas, went to 200-plus counties, how did he hold on to who he was as the campaign continued? >> i think it starts with the way he speaks. you know, he will give a speech that seems to be off the top of his head, you know, as you listen to more of them, you understand they are constructed of parts that recur, of course, like every politician. i think he's very good at connecting with audiences and making them feel he is speaking directly to them. that's part of it. as you mentioned, the way he travels. he really does drive the truck or minivan. he has a small team with him. he comes in, he'll take selfies with every last voter and talk to them while he's being pulled away by his field people. so, yeah, i think all that comes across. >> he says he doesn't prepare
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for any speech that he gives. we are talking about fractured speeches coming together and the repetition. what are you listening for? over the last few days, he had to talk about parts of his platform, impeachment, green energy. it seems this is gestating in realtime. >> oh, the kennedyesque white male who can make us feel good and, you know, energize about what is to come. never mind that they have detail of policy or prescription for it. i think because people are looking for, like someone, i think i said on my show before, gives a tingle up our spine, that we can believe in. that's what people, given a large field, people resort to, well, how can someone make me feel? what i'm looking for and i understand this is completely different because i work in this
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space as well is the content, how you can go across the country and win, in particular districts. people like to think this is one big election. it's not. it's a number of small elections across the country. so, i'm looking for the content. i'm looking at how, in his speeches, he speaks the same in different audiences. i do think he talks a lot about different issues, whether the audience is predominantly people of color or white at all. so, that's, you know, a plus. something we have criticized, saberny sanders about saying, but also elizabeth warren has. what differences with 20, soon to be 30 people in the race. ha are we looking for? at the end of the day, voters who don't have the benefit of knowing people's detailed history and things like that. they are going to also look for that charisma, look for there's
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someone i can believe in and, if media attaches on to it as well and describing him as he's just like us and he eats hamburgers and he's -- >> you listen to it. >> listen and take selfies. that all contributes to people narrowing down the candidates and who will best lead. >> let's turn to our kennedyesque fan. >> i don't think anyone's ever -- >> how well does that message translate to iowa or elsewhere in the country? how difficult is it going to be what he pioneered and do it elsewhere in the country? >> i'm curious. he lost to the most hated man in the senate. when you look at the bigger picture, he is great at getting people excited and commences 18 months of 90-second social media videos of passion. but you get nervous. when i talk to people from texas
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who were debating, they said i will vote for cruz because i know what he stands for. i might not like him, but i know what he will vote for. when i watch o'rourke, i don't know what i'll get. i'll take a mannequin like bernie, a weekend at bernie's. i'll take any of those sayings. when looking at o'rourke, i go, man, when it gets really bad, am i going to turn to you or are you going to turn to me and say what should i do? i get nervous about that. that doesn't -- i wonder, when we get to the national scene, if that will play out the same way. >> as he spoke to students on the campaign trail, he framed the coming election as an ethical moral choice. his son is eulisez. help us understand the politics.
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how does he see himself in the history of american politics? >> well, i know how he sees himself in the history of politics. i think we are going to find out in the history of american politics. i read, like you did, the "vanity fair" profile with presidential run on his biography. so, i think what you are talking about, the soaring rhetoric, this appeal to ethical and moral dimension of politics, you know, he ran a very different campaign than democrats had run in texas recently in the past. democrats hadn't won, have still not won statewide office since 1994. what you have seen before, democrats tried to run toward the center in statewide races. o'rourke ran a kind of, you know, appealing to our better
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angels, progressive campaign where he didn't make the policy concessions like wendy davis who ran against ted cruz. i think that's that rhetoric. it was o'rourke's appeal. you know, what he was doing in texas, he wasn't trying to persuade sen tryst republicans to vote for him, although some did. he was trying to convince likely leaning democratic voters it was worth it to show up at the polls. he did that successfully. not enough to win, but more than anyone in the past. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time this morning. you are kind to commend joe hagen's piece, i will xhnd yours as well. when we come back, the russia investigation may come to a close. new insight into the timing of when robert mueller is going to release his report. going to release his report - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair,
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i don't have any doubt that mr. trump is going to pardon paul manafort, at some point. i believe paul manafort will get out of the federal charges because what does donald trump have to lose if he pardons him? >> that is john brennan talking about the former campaign chairman on the receiving end of a one-two punch this week. in new york, a 16-count, 11-page indictment against manafort as he was being sentenced to more time in prison at the federal
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level. the presidential pardon couldn't absolve him from that. he was addressing president trump. >> ruled no evidence of any collusion. >> liar! >> very sad -- very sad day. >> "washington post" puts it, regardless of whether manafort is promised or asked for a pardon, it is clear his legal team would like him to be seen as a good soldier. once again, the president leaving his options open. >> will you pardon paul manafort? >> i haven't given it a thought. it's not on my mind. i feel badly for paul manafort. >> he made the most expansive comments on it. >> i'm not above the law.
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i never want anybody to be above the law. the pardons are a positive thing for a president. yes, i have an absolute right to pardon myself. >> i'm going to start with you. i want to give you a sense of where things stand outside the courthouse in washington, d.c. can manhattan d.a. cy -- >> there's definitely a reason kevin went out there and said, you know, there was no collusion. i mean, the judge -- >> sad. >> right. there is a reason for that. it was not because it had anything to do with paul manafort's legal case. the judge, herself, said the concept of collusion is nonstarter. he wasn't charged with conspiracy, collusion, arson. you can say all those things weren't proven because they are not part of the case. there's a reason they did that.
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it was strategic. it's to position himself in a good way for a pardon. they are throwing a wrinkle into that. the state charges, if convicted would be pardon proof. it throws a wrinkle into it. paul manafort has been litigating much of his case from the position of trying to get a pardon from the very beginning. now, he's in a harder situation, trying to face down the state charges. >> you watched or read the transcriptions on both of the sentencings in virginia and washington, d.c. it was two different paul manaforts with what he said and how he feels. >> it's paul manafort, right? >> lest we forget. >> what to do to come up with the optimal outcome. how do we know that? he's a lobbyist. he worked in ukraine and in the u.s. he knows how the system works. he's going to do whatever gets
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him the best outcome. i think it's nothing more than that when we look forward. what i'm interested in is as the mueller investigation concludes, how does it spin out and does the case move forward that involves manafort or does it simply end and these two trials. >> what is your sense as you watch the president, listen to what he has to say about all of this, he commits what i think is one of the most grammatical mistakes, ever, to say he feels badly. unless he had a bloody finger. >> were you an english major? >> he says that time and time again. what do you read from it? >> if you have seen "good fellas" this makes sense. it's a mofia language, code of loyalty. stay quiet and you will sleep well. that's what an aid sizer said to cohen.
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michael cohen was angling for this type of reassurance from president trump. he never got it. now i'll be the patriot, with manafort, trump is a fine person, i feel badly what's happened to him. that's a signal. if you play by the rules, the code of silence, there's going to be a pardon. he said it. i don't have to pardon, but i can pardon. i can pardon myself. wait, what? what just happened? we didn't ask that. manafort, obviously, is playing for the pardon. not just manafort, it's anyone in trump's orbit, who comes into contact, mueller or charges. trump is saying, you play by the rules, i have your back. a few of us are waiting for the tony romo moments before they unleash the indictments. it would be nice if there's state charges. that throws a wrinkle to manafort. because the trump organization is emerged in so much corruption
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here in new york and the nexus is so tight and so many people connect ld, i feel there will be state crimes for many individuals in addition to these crimes. addition to these crimes hey, want to try it? ok here you go... over... under... hey whoa, pop, pop... your shoe's untied. ♪ ensure he's well taken care of, even as you build your own plans for retirement. see how lincoln can help protect your savings from the impact of long-term care expenses at lincolnfinancial.com.
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oh, wow. you two are going to have such a great trip.
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that does it for this hour. thanks to my panel. here with me in new york. get us witness stand again tomorrow at 8:00 eastern time. jill wine-banks will be here with us. "up "is on every saturday. just ahead, t in new zealand, the mass murderer called immigrants invaders and an hour later president trump used that same word in the oval office. president trump used that same word in the oval office ♪ sure it's like a morn in spring ♪ more than half of our community have discovered their irish roots.
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welcome back to "up." i'm david gur ra. in the wake of the deadly attack in new zealand, we now know a gunman killed 49 men, women, and children and several other dozens remain hospitalized. they were attacked in two mosques during friday prayers in christchurch. the man charged in the attack is a self-proclaimed white nationalist. president trump yesterday down played the global threat of that. >> do you think white nationalism is a rising threat around the world? >> i don't, really. i think it's a small group of people that are very, very serious problems. i guess if you look at what happened in new zealand, perhaps
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that's the case. i don't know enough about it yet. they are just learning about the person and the people involved. but it's certainly a terrible thing, a terrible thing. >> the president also said this about immigration as lawmakers vetoed a congressional resolution to block his national emergency to fund the construction of the wall on the u.s.-mexico border. >> we're on track for a million illegal aliens to rush our borders. people hate the word "invasion," but that's what it is. it's an invasion of drugs and people. >> the president's comments mirrored the anti-immigrant rhetoric of a document that surfaced online justifying the new zealand mosque attacks, which included a series of white spreelist conspiracies on a level of invasion never seen before in history. a document posted online as the gunman's manifesto, he mentioned
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president trump in a rhetorical question. were/are you a supporter of donald trump? as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? sure. and senators are drawing a line between dehumanizing and dangerous rhetoric and violent actions. >> words have consequences like saying we have an invasion on our border and talking about people as though they were different in some fatal way. i think the public discourse from the president on down is a factor in some of these acts. >> up with me this hour, eddie gloch. he's an msnbc contributor. amy was a u.s. assistant attorney for the southern district of new york. adrian elrod was the director of strategic communications at hillary for america. i'm very glad to welcome to the show for the first time andrew desidarius who covers congress
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for politico. eddie, let me start with you. we're talking about whe've seen here in the u.s. and new zealand. how easy is it to draw that line? >> white supremacy is not defined by or defied by national boarders. it has something to do with the emergence of the modern west. madernity itself is rooted in the transatlantic slave trade. it's rooted in a ideology of whiteness that emerges. so it's not limited to national boundaries or national histories. those national histories matter, though. but i think it's important for us, before we get into all the abstractions is to think about this at the human level. there's some folks out there who have lost people that they love. there is a 4-year-old who is dead, there's a 6-year-old who is dead. there are grandfathers who are dead. and it was during prayer
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service. and so you have parents who are trying to comfort their children right now. who have -- who have to in some ways process the carnage to kind of keep the fear from taking root in their souls. because if the fear takes root, it affects how they navigate the world and how they see themselves. and this is one of the insidious dimensions of white supremacy, right? it's not simply that white people, people who are invested in whiteness as a sdangz. people who are invested in whiteness hate you. that hatred then gets inside you and you have to fight against it. so we have to think about this at the human level. and what i said yesterday, which let to breitbart and all of these folk coming at me is that we have to tell our kids in these moments that it's not about us. the problem isn't us. the problem is white supremacy. the problem is the crisis of the ideology of whiteness. and so when trump uses phrases
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like illegal aliens, which i find terribly insulting, when he uses words like invasion as if there's an infestation threatening the country, when we connect that to the history of race and white supremacy and our -- and the ideology around citizenship in this country, the history of naturalization acts in this country, we know it's deeply rooted in ideology of whiteness that we have to be critical of. >> this is another attack on a place of worship back in october after that attack in pittsburgh, i went there and talked to members of that community about what happened there and person after person said that this was unfathomable, that this was definitionally a sacred place, a place of sanitity where this shouldn't by any means have it happening. here we have it happening and it's a part of a string of attacks that we've seen. >> it is and it's unfortunately become a common occurrence in the last few years or at least more so than it was previously
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before 2015. you know, i thought the senator who was just -- just hit it on the head where he said words have consequences and they do. while i think we're all very careful not to overtly blame the sitting president for this attack, words do have consequences. and there are a lot of, for lack of a better term, crazy people out there who are watching everything that comes out of his mouth and, you know, potentially reacting to it. so i think, again, we just -- you know, i would have liked to have seen a stronger reaction from him yesterday and we didn't st see that. but, again, words have consequences. >> i was up early on friday morning. so i came in at 4:00 a.m. our time. the president hadn't weighed in. many hours had passed since this incident happened. all he did was retweet a breitbart news piece about the
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shooting and then delete it afterwards. but you listen to what he had to say in the oval office. perhaps, i guess, he's not a man who speaks with authority in a moment like this. he doesn't welcome or seem to welcome the opportunity to speak authoritatively or recognize the importance of speaking authoritatively when something like this happens. >> i think from my perch on capitol hill, you can expect a lot of interest in looking into this subject. the house homeland security committee has jurisdiction over this issue. that includes looking into the fbi's practices over investigating, going after these types of attacks, you know, focussing more on this white supremacist, white nationalist based terrorism over the sort of radical jihadist terrorism that has been the main focus over the last decade of two. and chairman benny thompson tried to have a hearing on this last year, i believe. and when the democrats were not in control, they weren't able to have a hearing focused exclusively on this subject. another thing they can loop in, i think, is this issue of big
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tech and how they deal with these crises. we saw that this killer apparently live streamed a lot of his terrible act on facebook. there was, i think, youtube was involved somehow, as well. those big tech companies have been really, really good at making sure that isis propaganda and other radical jihadist propaganda does not get spread across the internet. i think that there is going to be a greater focus from the policy making level on those big tech companies in terms of what they do to stop these other types of hatred from gaining steam and, you know, being perpetuated around the globe via the internet. >> how does one not be in part at least defeatist. andrew is talking about the degree to which this spread on social media. this is almost intractable, it seems. you have country trying to reign this in, this seems like a problem that is metastasizing, getting bigger, and at the same
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time, government and companies have a more difficult time trying to control it. >> sure. and it is easy to feel defeatist and sad and angry. and all of those things. but, first of all, this is where -- and just to go back to this point about words mattering, from the president on down, again, not to blame him for these attacks, but it's also the attacks on law enforcement that have consequences here. we need sources inside these groups. we need people to trust law nrchls enforcement to react in impartial ways to things like this when they happen here in our country and when they happen internationally. the fbi gets deployed all around the world. the intelligence agencies is crucial for things like this, online, there's a whole law enforcement world online trying to prevent this, not just react, but to prevent them.
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the president's attacks don't help that. the terrorist, whose name i'm forgetting, i'm trying to look it up and i'm glad i have forgotten his name. the one who tried to run over people with the van here in new york, there was recently a motion by his lawyers saying that he couldn't get a fair trial here because of words that the president had made after he was charge canned saying that, you know, he should get the death penalty. and the court ruled against that and said, no, he can get a fair trial here. but that, again, is something this president injects himself in not helpful ways into these cases that our courts need to be able to handle in impartial ways. and we need to be able to trust the judges, the prosecutors and the agents to do that. and when he makes comments like that, which people feel anger, of course, at someone like that. but comments like that as part of the justice system are not helpful. >> elevating him to a speech
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that he's given at many times focussing on that incident, eddie, i want to ask you about what you've observed about this particular mass shooting. and i don't mean to diminish it by asking it in that way. but we haven't talked about the gunman's name. his face was blurred in the video that new zealand put out. it seems like we globally are approaching this in a way that's different than what we have in the past. >> i was thinking about this yesterday trying to wrap my mind around this. our willingness to look at dylann roof in a particular way and now the way in which we're managing this, i don't know if it's lessons learned, i don't
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know if it's global, but i've been trying to think about the way in which we're consuming the violence in this moment. in some ways, we've worried that we've become anesthetized to it, that it happens so much that we can look it squarely in its face and move on. but we're learning lessons. i don't know quite what those lessons on, because at the same time we're seeing those happening, talking about the angelic blond kid who turned into a mass murderer. that was the front page as opposed to the images of the actual people who were killed. we're seeing rush limbaugh saying on his radio show that this was, in fact, a false flag, right? that it was -- a liberal doing it or something like that. we're seeing people on fox news
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saying that the actual position was understandable. it was the acts that was murderous and barbaric to put it in my own words. but it seems to me that we have to figure it out. we have to understand the linkage between this horrific act and a set of policy positions designed to exploit fear and hate. so we know in our politics that politicians are constantly -- we've known this since going back to machiavelli, that one of the ways to govern is to exploit people's fears, to take advantage of their hatreds. so we're seeing this and now it can bubble up into actual violence. and how it can result in all kinds of horrors. >> thank you for helping us out this morning. up ahead, as we await robert
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mueller's report, the focus shifts to other investigations in congress. her investigations in congress. irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette.
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or get unlimited. and now get $250 back when you buy a new samsung galaxy. click, call, or visit a store today. welcome back to "up." when it comes to robert mueller's investigation, the paler game continues wondering if and when we're going to see the final report. it is a real scene if
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washington, d.c. television crews are outside the office of the special counsel office. publishing houses are scrambling to produce instant books. meanwhile, there are signs the investigation is wrapping up. one of robert mueller's top prosecutors is leaving the team. he oversaw the case against paul manafort. the formerer campaign chair has been sentenced to 7 1/2 years in prison. the presidential pardon cannot make those go away. when asked about manafort this week, president trump made a false claim and he did it six times. >> i can only tell you one thing that was proven today. no collusion. no collusion. there is no collusion. today, again, to collusion. the other day, no collusion. there was no collusion. >> i feel lulled into come pl e
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complacency there. joining us now on set, the chair of the democratic caucus congressman, i think four republicans voted didn't vote in favor of that legislature. get us to us speed here. what confidence do you have that we will be able to see that report when robert mueller finished it? >> the house expressed its intent. overwhelmi overwhelming pi partisan support for the notion that once bob mueller completes his report, once it's issued to the department of justice, it should be made available to people both to the congress and the american people. >> and yet how do you react to lindsey graham? >> there will be members who conduct themselves as separate branches and not on behalf of the american people, as members of a trump. like cult.
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that's unfortunate. but at the end of the day, it was taxpayers who paid for the mueller investigation, taxpayers deserve to know what the findings, whether it implicates the president or whether it exonerates the president. >> when you look at the landscape outside that mueller report, again, the waiting continues here, but what happened with the manhattan district attorney, what happens with the investigation going on here in new york, do you see this evolution happening? are we at a pivot point in this investigation? >> i think we are. look, a lot of people, you know, are reading into the fact that andrew weisman is leaving the special counsel's office and i think that's right to read something into it. in other words, i think we're going to move from the phase where all of the focus, even on the federal level, is in mueller's office to where it's going to be in different offices throughout the department of justice, different branches of the department of justice. i think we're going to see more people within mueller's office leaving and that doesn't mean,
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though, necessarily, that the investigation and certainly not the prosecution's are ending, right? i mean, we know roger stone is going to trial. we know gates's cooperation has been extended. the two things are not inconsistent. i think mueller can be handing things off to different prosecutor's offices within the department of justice and that's not a bad thing. the department of justice as a whole, we have a saying in the attorney's offices that prosecutor's offices are not expungeble. people who are dedicated on seeing these cases through. it may take years to unwind this. there's a lot to investigate in many different areas. so i think we're going to start seeing that shift and, yes, the state prosecutors in different
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ways come in. and you're seeing the justice system as a whole, i think, working together but even if maybe at odds at times. you're seeing different carts coming in to make a fuller picture, i think. >> you heard what the house speaker had to say about impeachment this week. i wonder what your reaction was if you grabbed her by the elbow and say maybe we should turn down the tone on this. >> essentially what speaker pelosi laid out is that the case should be compelling, the evidence should be overwhelming and public sentiment with respect to impeachment must be bipartisan. >> people read too much into it, you think? >> absolutely. i think people consistently read too much into impeachment on the topic generally because we recognize, absence how democrats, that we were sent to washington in the majority to get things done on what have of americans, to lower health care costs, to drive down the high
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cost of prescription drugs. that will continue to be our focus. >> it seems to me the argument that a lot of house democrats are making is that the -- and this was well articulated by speaker pelosi. the idea that public sentiment has to be overturned by the president such that it's no longer expedient for republicans to remain in the president's corner politically and in terms of the vote count in congress. but you're seeing this split versus folks saying it may have been bipartisan and other folks in congress saying it should be based solely on the evidence and we, meaning democrats, should not wait on republicans. do you see that split? >> i think the overwhelming majority of the house is of the view that we should wait wait until these investigations come out, we have investigations taking place at the southern
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district of new york, we have an investigation by the attorney general's office, an investigation by the district attorney's office in manhattan. it can yield different things. the constitution says if a president commits treason, rivalry or other high crimes of misdemeanors, that is a basis for impeachment. that is a high bar to follow. >> with respect to the bipartisan nature of the dynamics, that essentially has been built into the united states constitution and impeachment is the beginning of the process. it's the equivalent of a grand jury indictment. the actual trial takes place in the united states senate. and the framers of the constitution have made clear, because 67 senators would have to vote to convict the president leading to removal that that essentially has to be bipartisan in nature. >> so you're saying we shouldn't have to wait on republicans in order to start impeachment proceedings?
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>> that's not what i'm saying. what i'm saying is the framework has been set forth such that an indictment is one thing, yes, that's impeachment, but responsibly to proceed it makes sense that the evidence has to be overwhelming and that the public sentiment should be bipartisan in nature in order to complete the process in that you shouldn't separate impeachment from removal. >> quickly here, the congressman talks about how the mandate of these coming into congress is to do these investigations. anecdotally, a lot of people wanted this to get under way, that that was part of the mandate, by voting in the democratic majority, they wanted that. >> and i think that's why speaker pelosi coming out and saying if they do impeach it has to be in a bipartisan manner is so important. republicans certainly saw what happened to their numbers when bill clinton was impeached in the 90s. his numbers soared. and it essentially helped democrats across the board. so i think republicans know that, you know -- or rather democrats know that this has to
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be a bipartisan investigation because, again, the tables can turn and it can negatively affect what happened in 2020. and, again, to me as a democratic strategist, the most important thing is to beat donald trump in 2020. i don't want anything to get in the way to impact that result. >> the congressman is going to stay with us. we're going to come back in just a moment. coming up, why we're seeing more and more acting in the trump administration. that is partly by design. administration that is partly by design
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if they're the 737 max, the safety of the american people and all people is our paramount concern. >> that's president trump previewing an order to ground 737 max aircraft in the u.s. dozens of planes were still in the air at the time as the faa scrambled to notify carriers and the american public. >> so the decision is an emergency order to ground the airplanes and that is authority rested in the faa. with me. >> that's the faa's acting administrator. they say they made their decision to ground those planes
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after regulators reviewed satellite data of the ethiopia crash. the data very close to that of the lion aircraft in october. the president claimed i know tech better than anyone. he tweeted this, aer planes are becoming far too complex to fly. pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from m.i.t. i see illustrate all the time in many products. often old and simpler is far better. that's something the former transportation secretary disputed on thursday. >> are airplanes too complex to fly these days? >> absolutely not. we have highly trained pilots. the planes are sophisticated, but they're not too sophisticated that you can't have good training and good pilots with good experience landing planes and having planes take off and fly them safely. >> i want to highlight a great piece the times had this week on how the president uses and ubdz technology. on present technology matters, including drones at the border,
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clean energy and the evolution of airplane engiering, he prefers a nonscientific approach. help us understand how congress is going to look into this. i mentioned that disconnect at the beginning. you had all these other countries, the eu, grounding these planes. a lot of political pressure on the u.s. to do that. fundament fundamentally, that's not how this is supposed to work. as i said, you had the president previewing that announcement in the oval office in those off-the-cuff remarks. >> these are unconventional times. i think millions of americans are answering the question when will a long national nightmare be over. but putting that aside, i think the dynamics that we're dealing with, congress will seek to answer two questions. first, is there a technical glitch connected to these models of aircraft that are essentially forcing them to nose dive and at least in two instances have caused a crash over the last six
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months? that's the first question. second question is, given the new technology that seems to be connected to this model of aircraft, have the pilots been given adequate training in order to manage the technology that appears to have been given several people some difficulty. so i think those are going be the questions that congress will systemically work there way through. >> i mentioned he's the acting administrator of the faa. there was a time when the president was floating to have his personal pilot the job at that time. i gather that's no longer on the table. but the president has gone on the record saying he liekts actings. and we've seen more of these in recent months. the secretary of defense acting in that capacity, the epa, interior department, as well. what are the consequences of that, having somebody in that job. >> i think it's significant on a couple of levels. number one, i mean, actings
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don't have to get confirmed by congress, right? so that is a challenge in itself because you can be an acting person in the job, but you don't have to get congressional approval, which means there's little oversight in terms of making sure you're picking the right person who is the best fit for the job. secondly, this also is a consequence of a lot of top notch people not want to go serve in president trump's administration. we're starting to see that, especially now that we're over two years in the administration to the detriment of our government and to the detriment of our government's function in terms of representing the people. you know, but when it comes tot to the planes, this is what i like so much about congressman jeffries is here today talking about this and about congress's oversight approval. we have the president tweeting out there planes are too complicated, this old school going back to the 1950s technolo technological things that he
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likes. meanwhile, congress is doing its job saying we are going to look into this. the proper committees that have oversight over plane technology will be reviewing these standards and we're going to ignore the president at this point with his petty rhetoric which has no bearing in terms of what the actual outcome will be when it comes to whether or not these planes will be flying. >> what does it say about the tension between president trump and regulators, his attitude towards regulation? he shoonts be making these decisions, but if we play this out a little bit more, i wouldn't want a guy who is just spouting off about how he thinks a plane operates deciding how planes should be operating and that seems to be the tack that he wants to take. >> and it's exactly the same tack he takes with intelligence and scientists and people who -- everyone else in the world, really, especially presidents, need to rely on for real information and facts to make informed decisions. but trump either is incapable of that or i think more likely wants to create his own set of facts and his own reality so he can make decisions that benefit
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him personally. because it's really all coming down to what he can say to make himself look good and politically advantageous for him. so it's just -- it's dangerous. it's dangerous when he does it with intelligence and says that russia did not interfere to help him in the election. it's the same concept, the same mentality, i think. and it's frightening. >> i mentioned dan ellwell who is acting administrator. you look at the faa, the entire upper management level tfaa right now are in an acting capacity. what does that say about the regulatory apparatus in this country right now, how hollowed out it is as somebody who occasionally nighs on planes? it gives me pause knowing that jobs aren't being filled or they're being filled on an ad hoc basis. >> right. so we've been talking about on this network the constitutional crisis, but there's a crisis of
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competence and the idea of the government working at the highest level. and i want to say that that has underpinnings. there is a current in this country that's been driving to starve the beast for a long time. so leaving these positions open has -- does idealogical work. .i think a board wrote about our willingness to take risks, dana millbank tapped about what happens when corporations run government. what's interesting about this boeing case is the outside influence of corporate america and decision making and the willingness on the part of certain political elites to allow americans to experience or expose americans to risk. so the question that we have to ask ourselves, what beyond the wisdom of donald trump's gut, which happens to be pretty large, but what motivated trump, right, the president, to wait so long? to ground after canada, after all the other -- after europe,
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after china, grounded 737 max 8 and 9? what caused him to delay? and my instinct, my gut, which isn't quite so big, right, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the outsized influence of boeing on how our government is run. >> i'll turn to the congressman on that lastly. there were these reported phone calls between the president and the head of boeing at this point. i mentioned the acting secretary of defense has a long career at boeing, 30 years working for that company, as well. is this the way the government should be going about business, where the president can call up somebody he's work with who is working with somebody heading his pentagon right now. is this the way decisions should be made? >> absolutely not. one of the problems we've seen with this administration is this government by friends and family plan, this government by the billionaire's boys club in terms of trump's allies and people who he's associated with and it's a fact-free zone. it did trouble a lot of people
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on the hill that it seemed that the call between trump and boeing's ceo was what may have given trump the ability to say, well, i don't think there's any problem here. and that we can just proceed as if everything is normal, when the rest of the world were grounding these model aircraft and that's very problematic. >> and this, by the way, is why congress's oversight authority is so important right now. >> we're seeing. >> and i think the transportation and infrastructure committee will take a look at this. i think chairman ee looj ya cummings will take a look at this. and as a separate and coequal parts of government, exercising oversight on an out of control executive branch, regardsless of whether the democrat is a democrat or republican is our constitutional responsibility and we're going to take advantage of that. when we come back, we're head to go iowa as beto o'rourke becomes the 15th democrat to jump into the 2020 race. into t.
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while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. we are all americans and we are all human beings and we do everything within our power for one another, for this great country, and for every generation that follows. this is democracy. >> and this is "up." i'm david gura. today is the third day of beto
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o'rourke's three-day swing through iowa. his announcement, a long time coming. i told "vanity fair," man, i'm just born to be in it. so far, the former congressman has held event necessary no fewer than eight towns across iowa. nbc is on the ground in iowa. he's been chasing the candidate around, and i do mean chasing, vaughn, because a lot of these events haven't been on a public station. he's been driving that minivan around and you don't know where these events are going to take place. >> yeah. good morning, david. you hear suddenly he's at a house party here in this part of town where you're setting up at another. beto o'rourke is trying to run a campaign here in iowa that is that classic hit the small places, do retail, meet people person to person. at the same time, that's frankly hard when you're beto o'rourke. two nights ago, we were at one of those house parties where
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there are dozens of people outside the door in 20-degree weather waiting to get in. he has another house party this evening which, if you know dubuque, it's not a small town. right here behind us, we'll be seeing beto o'rourke run ago st. patrick's day 5k before going and helping a election county here in town of waterloo over here this afternoon and knocking on doors. we're going to talk about beto o'rourke's campaign. it's very, i guess, unifying message, a very we all need to come together and put those party labels aside. giving that rhetoric, there is, in a lot of these instances, a lack of concrete policy specifics coming from the former congressman. i asked him yesterday, when can you expect to present more details about your plans when it comes to health care, when it comes to climate change, instead
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of just putting those issues forward. and he says, you know, we've got 11 months and there's no point in campaigning if you don't go out and listen to people and their own ideas. >> are you going run that race? >> it's funny, the campaign said there are no interviews available with beto o'rourke as he's running. because of that, i think i'll sit this one out. >> thank you very much. vaughn hilliard in iowa. stick around. i mentioned that vandy fair profile. the author of that piece will join us next. that's coming up. that's coming up
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♪ do you think that the experience he has here in the house is a strong enough foundation to jump to the oval office? >> and you ask me that when we have a president of the united states who never -- please. >> so is that a yes? >> the answer is yes. >> that's house speaker nancy pelosi weighing in on beto o'rourke's experience or lack thereof. the county attitude his time announce ago ptd announcing a presidential bid, but they were ready.
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beto has that magic dust, at least an 8 ball. >> yet another democrat has jumped into the race. this case robert francis bozo o'rourke. if bozo is elected, he plans to flush the constitution down the toilet. >> and here is what president trump had to say. >> your reaction to beto o'rourke's announcement? >> i think he has a lot of hand movement. i have never seen so much hand movement. i said is he crazy or is that just the way he acts? >> forgive me, i cannot resist pointing out the hypocrisy there. bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bong, bing, bing, bing, bing, bong and that. bing, bong. huh. bing, bing, bong bong, bing, bing, bing. you know what that is, right? >> his biggest weakness may not be his hand gestures. from "vanity fair," o'rourke is aware, too, of perhaps his biggest vulnerabilities, being a
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white man in a democratic pattern yearning for a woman or a person of color. let's start there. i imagine that was something beto o'rourke was thinking about. >> and i found it pretty interesting that right out of the gate his first campaign stop was about that, about his white privilege, you was about his white privilege, leaving his wife at home and taking his road trip. so he comes out immediately that brings up this white privilege thing. he is aware of it. obviously he can't do anything about that. but he does want to like -- his answer to that is i'll make my staff should i have one represent the country and be e diverse. but unlike bernie sanders and maybe joe biden, because of his age, he will be a referendum on white men in the democratic party. and he has to bear that. unlike i think other candidates so far. because he is supposed to be the
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youth guy and be woke, right? so whether he -- and he had to deal with it almost immediately. he is an artful apologizer by the way. >> and how big is this an issue for you as you look at that field of 15 candidates? >> somewhere in there. >> how big is deal is this the fact that he is a white man in this race when you have the opportunity to elect -- many women running and people of color as well. >> i don't think it is a huge deal. he's made it clear that he will build a campaign staff that is t diverse. but he does have to be careful not to lean into the white privilegeaspect. somebody like beto o'rourke has the potential of doing really well, i think he can potentially divide the bernie vote. but testimony be le
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it will be left to be seen. >> and he sort of came of age, leaves el paso, leaves his dad's shadow, goes to a school for boys. but a rural school. how much did that shape who he is? he kind of rejected that southern prep school. was that the turning point for him? >> well, i think the turning point actually was when he had been away from his home for many years and he returns. he had not expected to do that. when he went to woodbury, it was to get away from his dad and he didn't really fit in. and all the ways in which he adapted to not fitting in formed his personality. it was computers, it was punk rock, it was poetry and all these kinds of things. and he was a bit of an outsider. and he is an out sider throughout his time when he was in columbia and new york and when he returns to el paso, he is returning to the fold and he will finally be himself and pull the sword from the stone, right? i mean that is his narrative. but -- and frankly, i think
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understanding -- the most important thing to understand about him is el paso. and how he was shaped by the southwest and his father's politics. and this is a very democratic place in the reddest state in that area. so i think that now though we're trying to find out what is his political conviction, what is at the heart of -- what is driving him really. >> do you see that -- i mean this is a guy who is fascinated by history, he reads widely, he thinks about american history. do you see those convictions coming across when he is out there campaigning? >> there was a lot of excitement around his senate campaign. the viral video of his position around football players taking the knee suggested that he was open to and committed to america as it actually is. now there is a question about what he actually stands for.
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the last thing we need is another candidate who is just simply slogan, a kind of manufactured story that you could tell where he gets to the rock and pulls the sword out as it were. i think that he will have to be clear about where he stands on medicare for all. he will have to be clear about a living wage, he will have to be clear about the role of corporations in our government. and with regards to his youthfulness, once he stands next to mayor pete, you can't just simply be charismatic. he will have to be able to hold his own in terms of policy positions. so we'll have to see where he stands. if he tries to find that middle ground where he takes over biden's place and tries to play the cory booker unity role and then try to split the difference, i think he will have to -- he will have a difficult time with the base. >> and i saw you nodding. you've covered him on the hill. how does it square about the
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beto o'rourke that you know? >> eddie is correct that he is already facing really important questions about his views on policy proposals. and it is also a good point to make that whether or 2409 joe biden gets into the race, he could sort of occupy that centrist lean and i think he realizes that. because he ran as a progressive when he ran in texas pretty unapologetically. ironically he shares two political talents with donald trump. the first is he is a master fundraiser. he hauled in something like $80 million last year for his senate race. just unprecedented. the second thing, he can draw huge crowds and that will work really well for him in the state of iowa where you are trying to win over the voters one by one. and what i want to ask joe, is that something that you think will carry him forward in this race? >> 30 seconds. >> i think that his success is going to depend on whether he can do in the is senate race, which was get out ahead and make his own media. bend the media to him in the way
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that trump does. that's what he shares, his ability to kind of create his own moments. and he hasn't done that yet. he's been having it made for him, right? but he has to do what he did in the last election, get out there, put the camera on himself. he's really good at social media. and basically be himself and see how far that gets him. >> astronaut minut put that min. big thanks to my panel joining me here in new york. up next, joy reid diving into the fractured state of the two americas. that is coming up next. at is cot free wi-fi... ...and the price match guarantee. so with hilton there is no catch. yeah the only catch is i'm never leaving. no i'm serious, i live here now. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation
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we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. that does it for me. i'll be back at 8:00 tomorrow morning. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> it is no secret that mr. trump has campaigned on white supremacist ideology, on television and fe division and fear. and now we see that he was able to normalize islamphobia and to give legitimacy to those who fear muslims and fear immigrants. so it comes back to him and we tell him that your words matter and your policies matter. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." more details have emerged since the terrorist attack in new zealand in which an australian national opened fire insid t

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