that does it for me. i'll be back at 8:00 tomorrow morning. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> it is no secret that mr. trump has campaigned on white supremacist ideology, on television and fe division and fear. and now we see that he was able to normalize islamphobia and to give legitimacy to those who fear muslims and fear immigrants. so it comes back to him and we tell him that your words matter and your policies matter. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." more details have emerged since the terrorist attack in new zealand in which an australian national opened fire inside two mosques during friday prayers killing 49 people and injuring
dozens more. in his apparent manifesto, the killer made it clear that he carried out the attack in the name of white supremacy and praised donald trump as a, quote, symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose. trump did condemn the violence which you're supposed do as president, but he refused to admit what everyone else can see, the explosion of far right white nationalist extremism at home and abroad. >> do you thinkhi nationalism as arising threat around the world? >> i don't really. i think it is a small group of people that have very, very serious problems. i guess if you look at what happened in new zealand perhaps that is a case. i don't know enough about it yet. they are just learning about the person. and the people involved. but it is certainly a terrible thing, terrible thing. >> trump's bland response to the slaughter of muslim men, women and children in new zealand was eerily reminiscent of his remarks after an outbreak of
white national violence here in the u.s. >> you had some very bad people in that group. but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> joining me now to discuss is malcolm nance, dalia director of research for the institute of social policy and understanding. and brian levin, study of hate and extremism. thank you all for being here. the inability of people to identify this as terrorism because it isn't what we typically identify as terrorism, why is it so difficult for people to just make that straight on equivalence when it is white nationalism? >> because we have now been conditioned since 9/11 to believe that terrorists only come in one flavor. and that is muslim, extremists from the middle east or people in the united states who have been radicalized online and they can only be muslim. this is a huge fallacy. i train law enforcement and intelligence all the time in this country and i constantly
warn them the first people that will go to guns with you are going to be a white extremist militia man in the united states. they are armed, they are motivated and they have a history that goes back decades in this country. they are a threat. and that act in new zealand was a terrorist attack. it was designed to impact an audience beyond the victims and show an ideology as viable. and that is this white supremacist international that -- it doesn't appear. it exists all throughout europe. and charlottesville was the coming out party for that type of extremism in the united states. >> one other thing that made this particularly scary is that you have this merger now in a lot of different ways of social media which can be used both to radicalize people, but also now we're learning to spread the mayhem. this was live streamed by this terrorist. >> yeah, it was live streamed because he wanted to also show
his adherence and people who were out there who coukocould radicalized, that this is how it was done. it is a message not just to the greater world in general and to put fear in the hearts of the muslim world, but it was also really to -- people were saying this was trolling, some of the things that he put out in his manifesto. this was a message to what he calls the greater white community to stop the invasion of the muslim hoards into what he claims is the white world, white ccrihristianchristiandom. social media is a weapon system thousand. and like isis -- in written've whole book about the propaganda. they are using to put out a platform to bring in new adherence. >> and dalia, welcome to the show. one of the challenges is that we're not used to a terrorist of this ilk citing inspiration from
the president of the united states. and yet here is the way that the president donald trump has spoken about muslims and islam over the course of his time as public politician. >> look, there is something going on. the muslims. the ms. him xhuslim community hp us. the ms. huslim community has tok with us. they know what is going on. we have to look at the muslims and we have to do something. we cannot stand by and be stupid people while our country is destroyed. donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> dalia, does that get heard outside of the united states in the wider world, does donald trump have influence beyond our shores when he talks like that?
>> well, i think it is very clear that he does. i mean, he was cited by name in the manifesto of the shooter who went in and killed 49 innocent people in a mosque. i think it is really important to highlight the role of mainstream political figures both in america and europe and australia and in enabling, in fueling this culture that seems to legitimize this victim mentality of hate where these people believe that they are defending themselves against an invasion. i mean, we heard that same language used just this week when the president vetoed the opposition of congress to the emergency situation, emerging order. i think that if we take a step back and look at the wider
culture that allows this, we have to recognize that political rhetoric like this is directly fueling this kind of behavior. >> and to that very point, brian, and i said this last night, i was talking with other guests on the all in program. and we were talking about donald trump is one person. he can say things that may radicalize people, but he is among a community of other people who think the same way, right? here is donald trump, i want to play this, this is actually september of 2015. this is a couple months after he announced for president. and here he is being the recipient of the same kind of thing that he winds up giving back. take a listen. >> we have a problem in this country. it is called muslims. we know our current president is one. you know he's not even an american. >> we need this question. >> but you anyway, we have training camps where they want to kill us.
that is my question. when can we get rid of them? >> we'll be looking at a lot of different things. a lot of people are saying that, a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. we'll be looking at that and plenty of other things. >> in the same same way that the tree of life slaughter takes place where anti-semitism isn't just the one guide, you have this sentiment that isn't just trump. >> well, here is something interesting. around that time end of september, early october, 2015, there was a whole hubbub in social media and on talk radio about hundreds of thousands of militarized refugees coming in when it was just secretary kerry saying there would be 10,000 mostly women and children. guess what happened? after a town hall in keen, nancy pelo pelosi -- new hampshire that candidate trump was speaking at, hate crimes against muslims and arabs went up.
now, it was off of very small levels, but we see that. when he did the muslim ban proposal, five days after the san bernardino terrorist attack, we had like a tripling. it was a really significant increase. and we had a significant increase above and beyond the number of hate crimes that we saw consider lating to correlating to the terror take five days early. the worst month for hate crime according to research from west virginia university since the first anniversary of 9/11 was november 2016. so we see -- interestingly enough, when he launched his campaign and spoke derisively against latino, hate crimes against latinos didn't go up. maybe there was a lot in the news cycle. the charleston church shooting was one of main candidates. but in that november time frame the day after the election 2016,
that was the worst day for hate crime going back to 2003 and we saw this trend repeated in 2018 in many major american cities. i'll tell you here first, don't look at anyone else. we have the latest data 2018 is the fifth consecutive increase in 30 major american cities. and if this forecasts what the fbi figures will be shortly before thanksgiving, that will be the fourth consecutive increase nationally, fifth con secretary due differen -- could be secretary could c cities. and there was a cratering in homicides by violent jihadists, but you wouldn't know it by social media and listening to talk radio. when muslims are slaughtered, it is terrorism too. >> absolutely. and the way that the president speaks about the acts and crimes against muslim people, just as a
contrast. so when there was a terrorism attack in london, donald trump said the following august 14 of 2018. another terrorist attack in london. these animals are crazy and must be dealt with through toughness and strength. that's when the attacker was a muslim. and yesterday, my warmest sympathy and best wishes go out to the people of joonew zealand. very standard. the speech is different. and then i also want tzeand, a awning, a asenator from queensland. and here he is talking about what he says is the actual cause of what happened. i'll read it. he goes on and on and says left wing politicians will rush to claim the causes are gun laws or national views. but the real cause he says of blood shed in new zealand is the
immigration program which allowed muslim fanatics to migrate to new zealand in the first place. while they may have been the victims today, usually they are the perspetratoperpetrators. >> can i rant for a second? i've spent my entire life defending this nation. i spent my entire life in the middle east working with our arab and muslim allies to keep what they call the invaders out of here. we have dhahave done that succe. but we've turned a blind eye to the americans in our own midst who are terrorists, to americans who would betray our own constitution on the basis of tribalism. the president is pushing this. the president is their champion. and you know what, to be quite honest, he needs to sierra tank go foxtrot uniform he needs to turn to the right and ask the
chairman joint chiefs of staff. he is stoking violence not just in the und ited states but arou the world. he is a leader. from many one is what we are. and that does not mean that one tribe is over another tribe. the people in the counter terrorism community, every intelligence watch officer watching right now cannot do their work so long as the president of the united states keeps talking about them like they are foreign invaders who are taking something away from us. all immigrants to this country give us something. ask alexander hamilton, george washington and all the rest of the people who came from some other place and created this nation. >> and i'll quickly give dalia the last word. is there something that the rest of us other than donald trump can do to make your community feel more safe this morning? >> thank you for asking. i think the most important thing is for us to recognize that islamphobia is one branch on a larger tree of bigotry. the same soil that grows
islamphobia grows anti-semitism, anti-black racism. so we have to join together and recognize it as a threat to every single american who cares about freedom. >> indeed. >> it is not just about muslims. >> indeed. malcolm will join us in the next hour. dalia, great to meet you. >> and coming up, trump's veto makes his admirer swoon. that is next. that is next you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.
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mr. president, thank you always for your leadership and great support. >> your declaration of an emergency on the southern border was clearly authorized under the law. >> i don't know that i've ever been more proud to be standing next to your desk than i am today. thank you for keeping your word, mr. president. >> wow. after basking in the fawning praise that has become a feature of his regime, donald trump issued the first veto of his presidency yesterday of the bipartisan resolution to pore tend his national emergency. congress has refused to pay for the border wall with your tax money. a dozen republicans sided with democrats in a rare rebuke.
trump responded with the usual stair tactics, fake statistics. >> yesterday congress passed a dangerous resolution that if signed in to law would put countless americans in danger. very grave danger. it is definitely a national emergency. rarely have we had such a national emergency. therefore to defend the safety and security of all americans, i will be signing and issuing a formal veto of this reckless resolution and that is what it was. congress has the freedom to pass this resolution. and i have the duty to veto it. and i'm very proud to veto it. >> at the moment democrats do not have enough votes to override the veto, but nancy pelosi says the house will try anyway. joining me now, timothy o'brien and also caitlin dawson and
gwenn blair. this is great to have you here. i feel like a dinner party should break out. on the praise thing, this weird thing that donald trump requires where everyone goes around the table and praises him, what is that? is that something that he has been known to before he was president? >> he likes praise. he doesn't like criticism. it is of the case, ever it be the case. it has to be 100%, that is it. >> why do you suppose people do it? why do people give into it? >> he's the president of the united states. in the real estate business, he was building big towers all over the world. so if you like praise, you give it to him. if you are on his team, he accepts it fairly well. >> accepts it very eagerly. sort of weird because it feels almost like they feel like this is required, that they can't get anywhere with him unless they do this ritual. >> and i'm shocked that mike pence willingly jumps into that
bathtub of praise every time he is given the opportunity. i think it speaks as many of these things do to trump's insecurity. he needs constantly to get reinforced about the things that he feels inadequate about. that is why he always talks about how much money he has, why he always talks about his grades always penn and his success -- >> and he apparently had the high school grades. >> his political a chiefments, how attractive he is to women and he has brought that into his cabinet and the oval office. and i think it demeans the office. a confident president doesn't need yemen and woms men and wom him. >> and the president is sort of who america wants to be, whether it is who we are or not. and donald trump is displaying a kind of neediness, a kind of insecurity that is now defining for the presidency.
at least while he's in it. but also a kind of malignancy and malign attitude toward nonwhite people, let's just be blunt. here is donald trump again justifying what really is an overriding of the constitutional authority of do you think. here he is justifying it at that same ceremony in the white house. >> we're on track for a million illegal aliens to rush our borders, people hate the word invasion, but that's what it is. it is an invasion of drugs and criminals and people you have no idea who they are. but we capture them because border security is so good. but they are put in a very bad position and we're bursting at the seams. literally bursting at the seams. >> we're not bursting at the seams. that was his opening in june 2015 when he started to run. but this is a theme. and it wouldn't work if there weren't people who were into it unfortunately. >> exactly. because trump tapped into what he saw was arising sentiment in this country and also globally. and he saw that as an
opportunity for him. he saw the writing on the wall before many in the republican party even though they were whipping up a lot of the sentiment, he saw that this was a way that he could make his way in with the birther, he started with the birther attacks on president obama and now he is just ratcheted up the rhetoric. but i want to say something about your earlier question regarding where people -- why these senators go in and they will give all that adulation. part of it is because mitch mcconnell runs a robust patronage operation. and so these senators aren't just doing it because it is a trump insecurity thing, they are also doing it because they know that they have people who will become judges, they know that trump has an ability to hire people that they like, that they know. it is a whole patronage operation around jobs, judges and all kinds of appointments throughout the entire government. and that is part of why they play the game. >> and i think for a lot of people when you look at the approval ratings, the idea of
the wall is very low. only about a third of people. same percentage who support trump basically approve of the national emergency. cory gardner is probably toast. they thought that he would be a new republican, like a regular republican. instead he turns into this. and then you have something like a thom tillis. he wrote this heartfelt op-ed saying this is uhe sur pace of power, and then he turns around and votes with trump. so i wonder if for these guys just raw political calculation, is the humiliation to them worth it because they think that is the only way to get back in. >> i will try to cal you could you late this pretty quickly. but remember in 2012 after obama beatscould you late this pretty quickly. but remember in 2012 after obama beats mitt romney, we did this autopsy of the republicans all over the country. and we said the way we're talking to the american public is wrong. we're not expanding our vote count in the african-american
community, we're not -- we have to start talking differently. we all took that memo but donald trump. we did. we all took to heart and said we have to talk differently, we have to talk about our policy, include peopleky haley, tim scott. but donald trump beat 15 republicans. this issue is about votes, this is about primary votes and getting primary much like the presidential election on the democratic side. our primaries become so tight and so small that these people back home, they like being in office. i like politicians. i'll one of the view in america. but they want to get reelected. and i know tillis personally. i know his record in the house in north carolina. serious guy. cory, serious. so my point is, this is about votes, the president's popularity, about where he is and how he got there. nobody saw him coming. people that tell you they saw donald trump coming, we didn't
see it. and so he is still talking about votes. he's still talking about being elected and this is part of his plan. >> and i wonder then -- and i think that is true. the media didn't see it either. and i think what the republican sort of establishment found out is that the things you were talking about in that autopsy about speaking differently to latinos, that doesn't work. they want to hear that mexicans are rapists and criminals. that was more resonant for a lot of different reasons. but i wonder if donald trump the person, you guys know him, is this what he always was or did he too see that coming and say ah-ha, this will work for me politically, or is this him? >> you want a crowd, start a fight. it is an old saying. and that is his principle. two principles -- a couple principles, that is one of them. another one is what you can get away with. that kind of sums it up. but want a crowd start a fight
thing, we that you throughout the primaries. we saw it throughout the electoral campaign, the last two years. you want to get attention -- >> it is entertaining. >> you want attention, start a fight. blame somebody, kick somebody in the shins, that's it. >> but he spent decades hitting the same themes. before china was ripping off the united states in the '80s, it was japan that was ripping off the united states. this was his fifth run or pretend run at the white house. i don't think that he thought that he was going to win this. i think that he came out of this financial crisis in '08 where a lot of people's lives in middle america were upended by that financially, they lost mortgages, pensions, an ability to pay their children's college and trump filled that vacuum bay saying i have answers. immigrants are bad, china issed about a, and i'll solve your problems. >> but it resonates. >> either are t
. >> the rhetoric was already there and trump saw that he could take it on another level. but the rhetoric was already out there. >> and i think you tweeted something interesting i'm told. what does that mean, don veto. >> well, i think that donald trump runs his business and he's run the oval office like at many times like a mob boss. and i think this moment now where he is entering into this vacuum, he is trying to buck his own party. he is trying to usurp the powers of the purse in the executive office, someone who is used to running things in an authoritarian way and getting his own way. and i think this veto moment is a reflection of that. so it is a godfather reference. >> and a quick lightning around. mitch mcconnell used to be seen as the tough authoritarian figure. does he wind you up losing his caucus on an override? >> no. >> do you see donald trump losing his audience? >> no. he will just -- there will be
another thing, another july 4th parade, there will be another -- >> military parade. >> yeah, another military parade. >> can a veto override happen at all? >> no. >> unanimity. see, look at that bipartisan. we'll have you all come back and we'll have a delicious brunch to go with our friendly conversation. coming up, paul manafort's former right hand man singing like a bird. that's next. that's next. i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. democrats 2020 presidential field just got a little more crowded this week after weeks of hinting, former texas congressman beto o'rourke announced his candidacy for president. he said i want to be in it, man. i'm just born to be in it. we'll have much more tomorrow on what beto's cool kid entrance means for the 2020 landscape. but up next, how the long arm of the law could still reach out and touch paul manafort. with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown
judge jackson conceded that there was absolutely no evidence of any russian collusion in this case. so that makes two courts, two courts have ruled no evidence of any collusion with any russian. >> you're a liar! >> court number two -- very sad. very sad -- >> that's not what she said. >> ken downing was immediately fact checked by the crowd after his client was sentenced to
another three years in prison. bringing the total sentence up to 7 1/2 years. his legal troubles are not over yet. minutes after manafort was sentenced in d.c., prosecutors in new york announced 16 state charges against trump's former campaign chair, charges that trump will not be able to pardon manafort out of temperature become with me tim o'brien and also this will make him laugh too before the segment is over. and the no collusion thing is so strange that they keep saying it, it is like a nonsequitur. judge amy berman jackson, this is what she said. the no collusion refrain that run through the entire defense memo is unrelated to the matters at hand. so after she said that, then they said no collusion. what is going on? >> well, i wish i was wearing y liar liar pants on fire pen because that's what it is. he should be disbarred for that
or censured because he clearly went out and said the exact opposite of what the judge had said. he isn't on trial for murder. he isn't on trial for rape. so you don't go out there and say there is no rape or collusion because it has nothing to do with the charges against him. he was charged with bank and financial crimes. he was charged with other things that had nothing to do with collusion. >> so let's put them up. this is what he was charged with. 16 counts -- this is the manhattan trial, sorry. mortgage fraud, conspiracy, false guying business records, scheme to defraud. it wasn't collusion. >> money laundering, bank fraud, tax fraud. >> so was this an open pitch for a pardon? >> of course it was. and it shows the extent to which donald trump debases the people around him that when people who are representatives of the court participate in the court or are functionaries in the court feel no problem with openly soliciting a presidential pardon
for their client. i don't think there was anything more than that involved in that. >> and let's hear donald trump being asked whether or not he was going to try to pardon paul manafort. >> will you pardon paul man snort. >> i have not even given it a thought as of it moment. it is not something that is right now on my mind. i do feel badly for paul manafort. >> okay. well, we don't know if he will pardon him or not, but he can't pardon him on the state charges. >> the chief executive of the united states feels badly for an international criminal. okay. yeah, so the point of the state charges is that the state charges make it pardon-proof because donald trump cannot pardon away from state charges. but there are problems with the state charges. and this really goes into cj vance's domain. vance might be the smollett of are prosecutors. he has a bad record in terms of
letting off rich and powerful people. >> you're talking about the harvey weinstein. >> harvey weinstein. the trump kids. cj vance is not our friend. and so when you look at these charges, my first read were like okay, these are sufficiently different than what he was charged in federal court to avoid a fifth amendment total jeopardy issue. but in new york state's double jeopardy law is much more district than the federal standard. new york state is actually better to defendants than the federal standard requires them to be. and so really it is difficult to charge people for acts arising out of the same set of circumstances. and it is unclear if each of these 16 charges would survive a double jeopardy appeal. there is talk in new york state when changing that law to whatever, but even if we change the law --
>> it won't pertain. yeah. and you didn't know if he did the homework it make sure that the charges will sd will stick was like look at me, look at me. >> and you also have rick gates whose sentencing was put off for the umpteenth time which makes you think he is just giving more and more stuff. anyway that key give more to get manafort in more trouble? >> certainly is. and i think we're getting conflicting messages too. because for the first time i thought, well, maybe mueller is wrapping up when weissman resigned. >> and that is his one of his -- >> his top prosecutor, the one in charge of manafort. so you could read that as manafort is done so he can leave. and there are plenty of very excellent prosecutors in the office. so it is not that the case is over. but it was the first time -- because i've been saying i don't see any evidence that is he wrapping up, there is so much more to do. there is seizure at roger stone's home, delayed roger
stone's own case because there is so much material. you can't wrap up until you go through it all. and you think about the children who haven't been investigated and charged. or even interviewed. so i'm like no, they are not really wrapping up. and then when he resigned, i thought maybe. but then the next day there was a 60 day delay in even thinking about sentencing gates because he is still cooperating. so that made me think i was right to begin with. >> the language said there are several ongoing investigations. >> who puts donald trump -- i guess i've asked you this before. but you've got gates giving up stuff. we don't know how much he knows. we have manafort, roger stone. who puts trump in the most jeopardy? >> i think the southern district and various state attorneys general investigations are the ones. it could go ultimately bob mueller's investigation would result in a direct threat to trump. i think mueller has been farming off a lot of the financial crimes to other jurisdictions or
other offices extra teenlt stra. and it is not just cj vance in new york. regulators are looking at his insurance dealings. so it is ironic that new york -- new yorkers know who donald trump is. they have known him for decades. and you notice have three different authorities coming at him. >> and could the kids wind up in jeopardy? if vance can't necessarily get trump. >> don jr. has to be indicted. you know who i think -- we were talking about this last night. who i think puts donald trump in the most jeopardy, the defamation case -- >> the former apprentice contestant. >> and that could put him under a deposition. and a deposition is what got bill clinton impeached.
so that could still happen. and trump kind of thinks that like one day mueller will like be raptured and his life will get better. it is never going away. people are going to pursue this man to the ends of the earth. so like -- >> all right. i give up. it is sabbath for somebody. 7th day adventist is half my family so i'm done. thank you very much. man, dude. coming up in our next hour, special look at the two americas, but first reparations is back as a political issue. what it means, next. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.
this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. i've long believed that this country should address slavery, the original sin of slavery, including by looking at reparations and if i'm president, then i'm going to appoint a commissioner task force to determine the best way to do that. >> why not support reparations?
>> why what do you mean? >> for slave descendants. >> but what does that mean? >> money. >> i think right now our job is to address the crises facing the american people and our communities. and i think there are better ways do that than just writing out a a check. >> we have a history of racism in america. >> so you are for some type of reparation? >> yes, i am. >> five years, an article in the atlantic the case for reparations and nearly 20 years after the publication of randall robinson's landmark book "the debt what america owes to blacks" the question of reparations for slavery is back in the news. joining me now to discuss why that might be is congresswoman sheila jackson lee of texas. she's the lead sponsor of hr-40, the long-time bill seeking a national study on reparations and mark thompson host of "make it plain" and soon to be a member of the national african-american reparations commission. i'm going to come to you on this first. i interviewed randall robinson
many years ago when this was a hot button issue in the early 2000s and then made an issue again with his piece five years ago. what made it come back now? >> well, i think that, obviously, with the introduction of hr-40 again by congresswoman lee out there since 1987, the discussion has not gone away. there are organizations still active about reparations. they don't get a lot of attentions in the mainstream meade li media like the commission you mentioned and cobra the 30th annual conveniention in detroit this summer. there is some nefarious behavior going on like we saw in se2016 where certain trolls and interests outside the community like to take an issue exploit it and inject it into the presidential race and that's one of the things that we're concerned about now. there are some people who are
pushing the issue but they have an ulterior motive and if i could explain, whenever you see people on line refer to reparations and they only hold democratic candidates accountable and say, if democratic candidates don't support reparations black voters should stay home in 2020 that's how you know those people aren't representatives of the movement. we want to make sure our community, this go round, is not subjected to sort of what is really a cyber probe where an issue in our community is intill tated and exploited and used against us and it's time now more than ever, organizations like cobra and the national african-american reparations commission speak out to say these are the real and genuine positions on reparations not some who say we don't believe in the pan africanism. this is 100 years since the
first congress held by w.b. dubois. only those descendents of slaves in america matter, first of all, many in the black activist and community don't say slaves anymore we say enslaved people. that's the giveaway when you see that rhetoric. lastly when people exclusively talk about immediate cash payouts if a democratic doesn't support immediate cash payouts don't support them, in cobrashgs and the commission, they have been saying it's not just about that. it's about entrepreneurial development, it's about access to capital, it's about healing much like the truth and reconciliation commission in south africa. so when you see those other types of things that's a red flag. we ask people to support and hear and get behind the legitimate, long-standing reparations organizations. >> yeah. just to sort of flesh out what that means in terms of legislation you are the lead sponsor of, congresswoman, what
is in that legislation and what would it do? >> first of all, good morning, joy, mark, i want to take just a moment to connect with my brothers and sisters in new zealand who suffered a violent, vicious and terroristic act based on the question of racism and religious denunciation. so this discussion is long overdue as it relates to enslaved people and slaves in the united states. 4 million africans were enslaved here in the united states. 1 million african-americans have been incarcerated across this nation. hr-40 was introduced on the very first day of the united states congress in 2019 with an array of members coming from across the nation and all manner of backgrounds. they understand it is long overdue for a national dialog dealing with what happened to african, african-americans as
slaves. this was an institutionalized and condoned action by the government from 1619 to 1865, de facto acts have shown the impact of slavery on african-americans. so the bill is not a check. the bill is as those thoughtful democratic presidential candidates have said they have indicated we have suffered because of racism, we know that the acts of racial white supremacist bias or acts of increased by 182% by the anti-defamation league, 58% of the incidents of bias were racial ethnicity and white supremacists in 2017, so we're asking for the bill establishes a legitimate commission appointed by the president to speak of the house, the leader
of the senate and leaders like dr. ron daniels. this bill was originally introduced by john conyers. >> right. >> and others who have been involved in the movement and then goes forward with an appropriations to be real, which is to bring in witnesses, to demand from the various federal agencies what has happened to the african-american population. let me be very clear, yes, i want the push to be to support hr-40 to have a hearing and move it in a process of reasoned understanding in the regular order of the united states congress, but let me be very clear, let us not label the black community, the african-american community, as not being the geniuses that they are. >> right. >> the establishment of historically black colleges, astronauts, lawyers, doctors and others, but we can see the loss of wealth, we can see maternal mortality and we can see the issues of health, all are connected. does the nation not want to have
a viable discussion and best practices and results that may involve hbcus and may involve the restoration of wealth in some form or another. it may resolve in lower taxes that will impact all of america, does the nation not want to have that discussion. that what is hr-40 is about. >> i wish we had more time to have that discussion. we are out of time. mark on your twitter feed there's information about where people can get more information from cobra, ncobra. check that out. >> hr-40. >> thank you. more "am joy" after the break. g. being a usaa member, because of my service in the military,
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today, millions and millions and millions of american families are struggling to survive in a system that's been rigged, rigged by the wealthy and well connected. hard working people are up against a small group that holds far too much power, not just in our economy, but also in our democracy. >> welcome back to "am joy." senator elizabeth warren and her many counterparts running for president are ramping up their messaging on income inequality in america. about a system designed by the super rich for the super rich. that's making the divide between the haves and have nots wider by the day. there are, indeed, two americas divided by income and wealth, by race and by access to power,
including a president committed to giving more money and favor to the billionaire class who by the way seem to generally feel quite entitled to it. over the course of the hour we're going to walk you through the major news stories that reveal what a tale of two americas looks like in 2019. starting with the racial disparities in our criminal justice system. former campaign chairman paul manafort was sentenced to a total of seven and a half years in federal prison for decades of financial crimes uncovered in two cases emanating from the special counsel's office. but on charges that look a the lot like manafort's former detroit mayor kilpatrick who is black is serving 28 years in prison. his relace date 2037. and then the fallout over the bowing 737 max jet, continuing after two deadly crashes in less than five months, the trump administration allowed boeing's troubled jet to continue carrying passengers for two full days after the crash before
finally joining the rest of the world in grounding the airliners to make sure they're safe. a decision complicated once again by the merger of business interests and politics in trump's america. boeing's ceo dennis mullenberg is a friend and donor of trump's who rang up the president on tuesday to make the case that his planes should not be grounded in the united states. on monday, trump dropped his latest budget, a record $4.7 trillion plan that calls for major reductions in spending for safety net programs like medicare and medicaid, the federal health care programs for the elderly and the poor. and then amid the ongoing myth of american meritocracy and the perennial finger wagging over affirmative action a massive bombshell college admissions cheating scandal showing how rich parents paid to cheat their unqualified children into elite universities. federal prosecutors charged 50 people for taking or giving bribes including college
athletics coaches and wealthy parents including lori loughlin and felicity huffman. some pretended they were charitable donations snagging tax cuts with the ill gotten admissions for their kids. joining me is anna, a political analyst and author of "winners take all" the elite charade of changing the world. >> thank you for having me. >> your book set the table for this and feels like after it was published it started flooding in. >> i have to thank these rich people. >> for helping you, right. >> yeah. >> the reality is you do have a wealthy class that feels they are philanthropic and great people that they're giving of charity, but they also feel really entitled. we're seeing rich people feel entitled to get their kids into elite schools so much so they're willing to bribe people for it. >> what's so amazing, sometimes some of these prosecutors i feel have a literary flair and the prosecutors that worked the college case had a nice literary touch. if you read the indictment
including the 200 page complaint it's a lovely document that has a lot of first person language in how these rich people talk behind closed doors and sets up the contrast between rich people's gala talk and real talk. gala talk, i want to help the disadvantaged and they'll go and do that. i support the american humane association. no dog should have to, you know, bark alone. and so on and so forth. big philanthropy, impact social enterprise, buy these socks, someone else gets a pair of socks. rich people are involved in manner of the dale gayle la tal. you and i got to hear how he talk when we don't normally hear them and the way they talk, look, man, we have to guarantee the seat for my daughter she's not getting in. look, man, my son it's not going to happen. we need to lock this up. how do we make this happen. 75,000. to problem. done. the head of a law firm, the
actresses who everyone wants to focus on because they're actresses and look good but the most significant person to me is this tpg partner, private equity fund partner really the leader as you talk about all of the issues that you just went through, all of them involve in some ways the challenge to extre extreme capitalism we've been witnessing in the last many years and a rise aring chorus of criticism. started with elizabeth warren and what americans don't know is, within the citadels of capitalism some of these folks have tried to get in front of that criticism and say hey, keep your pitch forks in the garage a second longer well, got this from the inside. we can reform capitalism and we can invest in more honorable ways and source and purchase and pay people more honorably. you have whole foods and shared value and impact investing. the idea yes investors may have pill langed the american economy
over the last generation but they can be the reparation to their own problem and who was the dean of impact investing in america, bill mclashen started a a $2 billion fund with bono, bono always involved, and to have that guy arrested for allegedly rigging the system, so that none of those people he was trying to empower could compete with his kids tells you a lot not just about him but the class. >> you have the really rich people who buy a university if their kid didn't bother to study and when my daughter heard about the scandal, the first thing she said, i thought that's how all rich got into school. when i went to harvard if you could endow a huge endowment your children could get in. you need to start donating a few years out. then the next tier down of rich people who go we're not elite enough so we need to get our jared kushner in our donald trump our rich guy in so they would be willing to go this far. >> i think that's the
perception. but i actually think part of what's interesting in this is i actually don't think those huge donations are foolproof and he understood that, right. if you look at harvard admits a few thousand a year, if it just -- >> can't all donate. >> if it worked to do a few million and get in that whole class would do that. those people attempt donations and don't get their kids in and what this guy figured out was that he puts a front door to get in the legit way, a back door which is big check but he as he put it all you get is a second look or leg up and said my people wanted a side door, right where it's a guarantee i got a coach inside or an s.a.t. -- >> pretending they are learning disabled. >> yes. >> it's crazy. the other thing that is even more sort of enraging people faking their kids' athletic ability when kids that's the only way to get into college now they don't get in.
lo lori loughlin's husband complaining poor people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and stop complaining. using the rhetoric that you shouldn't be here. their kid shouldn't be there. >> because of the book i've written i have been in an extended argument with these people for the last three years of my life and i have tell you, wherever that argument meanders i will tell you where it always lands. they say, you don't believe in merit. you don't believe -- >> the meritocracy. >> open competition. you don't believe -- the companies that make it that's because they're better than everybody else. the people that make it because they're smarter. i worked for this. what we see in just remember one little biopsy thing that we got to see, remember all the stuff we still have no glimpse of, but we got to see these people don't believe in meritocracy at all. they love their children but didn't seem it to respect them. >> or push them. because the other thing is -- >> right. >> you have this experience of kids, a young man from trinidad who got into like 28 colleges no one in his family had gone to
college so you have on the one hand the idea that i'll push my child and try to get them be the best they can be, if my child isn't trying that's fine i excuse that and make a way for them to have everything. >> i think you had these youtube videos that surfaced of lori loughlin's daughter talking about i don't like school i'm not into earning but excited about partying and game day. this is zero sum. there is a kid who perhaps didn't get into college or certainly didn't get in that college or any other college, maybe was recruited as an athlete and not recruited by anybody else and that was their shot, and that family now has lost the chance to pull out of poverty. for someone who doesn't care, es evidently not es especially bright saying i just want to go for game day. i think what really people need to understand is whenever prosecutor's get a case like this it is a lucky break for us, and we have to remember we have gone from seeing zero percent of
the system to 0.003% of this system and i think what a lot of americans need to understand is project what you learned here into how a lot of health care things work, how a lot of finance things work, how a lot of housing things work, how people get recruited to run for congress and who gets to run for congress and doesn't. this is occurring in different forms with different details in so many parts of our life. >> yeah. >> every story you went through, is not just a story about inequality but also about corruption. >> think about it, you have a president who hid his own high school records while accusing the first black president of being too dumb to get into the colleges he earned his way into. >> yes. >> you have that bucket where people are also a malign attitude toward the people struggling and their kids are xwarntsed through cheating. >> and the president resonates and rhymes with this crime so much. because one as you say, he cheated his way to the top. second, we have to talk about this element that you mentioned which is tax avoidance. >> yes.
>> right. the president's entire fortune comes from poorly investing an inhurry tance that he under reported from his parents that would have been much higher today if he put it in like a vanguard account instead of trying to run it. i think what at love people don't understand with a scandal like this, this is not just a moral offense. you paid for this, everybody watching this paid cash money to support this ring in a few ways. one, when people made contributions to a charity and took a tax deduction you paid to make up for the government's shortfall. that charity received money didn't have to pay taxes on the money it received you paid for that too and when stanford boat association and other things got it money they didn't pay taxes on a third time you're paying it again. >> everybody paid for it. i'm going to play as we leave, davos my favorite moment, historian got at this. donald trump's fortune was made through tax avoidance. his father avoided taxes probably better than even had he
did and why he is rich. it's always a treat to talk to you. >> thank you for having me. >> more "am joy" after the break. >> almost no one raises the real issue of tax avoidance and the rich not paying their fair share. it feels like i'm at a firefighter's conference and no one allowed to speak about water. this is not rocket science. we can talk for a long time about all these stupid philanthropy schemes, invite bono once more. we have to be talking about taxes. taxes. all the rest is [ bleep ] in my opinion. all the rest is [ bleep ] in my opinion. if ywhen you brush or floss, you don't have to choose between healthy gums and strong teeth. complete protection from parodontax has 8 designed benefits for healthy gums and strong teeth. complete protection from parodontax.
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a subdued motionless, 20 ye racketeering, 7 fraud, one more for tax evasion. the mayor staring doing the math. 28 years in prison. the exact number prosecutors asked for. >> the idea of two americas is nowhere more stark than in the criminal justice system which seems to have one set of rules if you're white and rich and another if you're anybody else. just look at the sentence that paul manafort got for his many, many federal crimes. just seven and a half years total when sentencing guidelines called for more than 20. compare that to another public figure, detroit mayor kilpatrick convicted of corruption and financial crimes and serving 8 years in prison.
-- 28 years in prison. joining me malcolm nance, jill wine-banks and elie mystal, editor of above the law.com. the paul manafort thing bugged me a lot. here is a guy who is unrepentant about his crimes, he didn't help the special counsel as rick gates and others have. he actually continued to lie while he was doing his deal and yet judge amy berman jackson follows up a lenient sentence reading him the riot act and giving him a short sentence. what happened? >> i also wanted to see paul manafort go to jail for the rest of his short life and spend it in agonizing pain. i get the thought process here, right. i think we have -- we're forgetting a little bit, seven and a half years is a long time. as far as i know prison is awful and this man is going from like eating caviar to eating prison gruel for seven and be a half years. that's not nothing. while we definitely have
systemic, unfairness in the system, the way to address that unfairness is not to ratchet up the penalties on the one white man we bother to prosecute to the fullest extent, it is to bring down the draconian penalties that we place on african-americans, on blue collar criminal, on people who do things a lot less socially damaging than what paul manafort did but get way more time. we have to bring that time down, not make an example out of paul manafort to make us feel better. >> it's not to make us feel better. i never disagree but i do on this. kwami kilpatrick, 28 years, a little why on the difference. a government analysis of prison sentences between 2012 and 1e6 found black male offenders received sentences 20% longer than similarly situated white men and white republican judges hand down longer sentences to black men than other judges the judge in the kilpatrick case was -- is appointed by george
herbert walker bush and sentenced bill jefferson in louisiana to like over 11 years. >> 13 years. >> longest sentence ever. >> and he said it was to send a message. >> right. >> at the same time malcolm nance, what kwame kilpatrick did was a crime, he was not aiding a foreign power to steal an american election. a man in paul manafort's case who worked for dictators, and turned around and helped our adversaries help the president. >> his otherwise blameless life. this guy worked for every dictator in the world. he actually helped organize a government that attacked nato troops, u.s. marines, in crimea in the run up to the invasion of crimea. robert mueller if he has anything left in the bag he has to have something regarding working with a foreign power whether conspiracy to defraud the united states or the espionage act, some sort of
haymaker spitball to throw at his head at this point shog showing when he passed that campaign data to constantine kilimnik, a representative believed to be a representative of russian intelligence, that's another charge that i think he should come back with. i would do it just for -- for general purpose. >> for the flag. >> for the flag. >> for america. >> the flag and country. you have a situation jill a researcher called mark bennett and justin levinson who did the research showed the leniency that manafort received is typical for white collar defendants judges depart from guidelines to impose a sentence lower than what's recommended. we've seen people who pleaded out in the mueller crime get 30 days, ten days, 2 and a half days, long weekend. it makes me think that had even the nixon case proceeded to trial, knicks woon have gotten like 30 days probation. i don't feel we have the will in
is this country to sentence people committing crimes includes they're kwame or the dude from jefferson -- >> the watergate defendants did go to jail. all of ours went to jail. everybody convicted even those who pled. john dean had immunity from the senate, but we wouldn't accept a plea from him unless he actually pleaded. he would not have him as a cooperating witness because he wouldn't have been believable and he had to serve jail time despite the most extensive cooperation of probably any witness in history, the most accurate cooperation he had an incredible memory. i think elie is right we need to look at the disparity not so much in terms of raising the punishment which does not maybe make so much of a difference, i think seven and a half years is a long time and i think he will suffer for that. i think now that we have the state of new york weighing in and there is an indictment there where he cannot be pardoned because it's a state crime, he
will actually serve the number of years he should serve. we should look at did kwame get too much time. i'm not so familiar with all the evidence against him but by comparison you can say it's just not fair. >> the way to fix this is to impeach the judges. if you think that judge ellis' sentence was wrong, i do too, impeach him. this goes something to -- to me to a democratic problem. while we know that republicans like this, republicans like it when their friends get off free but when the democrats are in power they run around being like we have to be tough on crime too and they don't put in the judges and don't impeach the bad judges or fire the bad prosecutors when they have a chance. we had a black president two black attorney generals complete democratic control of new york state. how many bankers are in jail? how many. none, right. that's democrats unwilling to go the extra mile. when you look at the people running for president now, i think that you should look very
carefully at their records on criminal justice reform. some of them have records on criminal justice reform. some want do better. others have not articulated what we're going to do about the judge ellis or how we're going to free people like kwame kilpatrick, and that is what we -- when democrats are in power, we need to hold them accountable for this stuff because we know the republicans when they get in charge are going to do this. >> the other issue of it is, i'll bring both of you in this, democrats also to elie's point sh fring the idea of impeachment. democrats saying we wouldn't do that. impeachment is the only remedy the tuesdconstitution allows wh the judge or the president. >> it's removal from power. taking the vestiges and the powers of the president of the united states away from a citizen and returning him back to citizenry. i don't think that's -- if they don't do something, i really -- i'm part of the impeachment
camp. i am an originalsist. you read the constitution, execute the constitution. man commits a crime, listen, if bill clinton's perjury was a crime, we have a president that's committed that crime almost 9,000 times. >> yeah. >> so imagine what's going to happen, you know, if his questions that he submitted to robert mueller turn out to be lies. you've got to be ready to impeach on a moment's notice. >> i think what a lot of people when they look at what paul manafort was able to come in and say i've got gout, look at me, i need my wife and the judge says you are a bad guy but okay. roger stone put out a piece of -- an instagram post with a cross hairs on the judge and the judge says you do that one more time, roger stone. but doesn't jail him. i think the american people look at this system and say doesn't party what these guys do, even if they colluded with russia none of them are going to suffer. >> i want to take a little different position. malcolm and i talked about this before coming on. i think as a prosecutor, i have
one point of view, be but as a citizen who says maybe we should call the hearings that the committees are having fact finding. get the facts out. in watergate you had a senate hearing where the facts were out and people were able to evaluate the credibility of witnesses. >> on tv. >> saw it live. we need public hearings so that the american public accepts the results. that's an important element that's right now missing. >> isn't that what impeachment hearings are? >> if you call them impeachment hearings you're giving a platform to the republicans and president to say they're after me. call it a fact finding hearing. i don't care what you call it. the result could be impeachment because i believe if the facts come out, i keep pointing to paula duncan the juror in the manafort case who said i am a loyal trump supporter and this is a hoax and witch hunt but i
saw the facts and voted to convict him on 18 counts. i think the american public including trump supporters if they see the facts before them will go he's a danger to national security and we should impeach him. let's look at the facts. let's call it fact finding for now. >> one thing if the democrats are arguing we don't have enough facts to know if trump committed a crime. they're arguing oh, the republicans don't want to do it what can we do. >> or won't succeed. >> which is not a good argument. the argument is that there are laws he violated them now and we don't wait for republicans to agree. that's how this ties into the conversation. >> impeachment is a trial, convince the jury. >> that's right. absolutely. but i love an optimistic person so i'm going to end with jill wine-banks, what's your pin, it's adorable. >> the pin is to show support pore the republicans who had the courage slowly as it has been to come out against the president. they voted for transparency of
the mueller report in almost -- unanimously and they voted against his fake emergency. >> yeah. >> i want to support them. i say it's slow but steady wins the race and slowly the republicans are coming around. >> call them the constitution dozen. 12 willing to stand up to their own power. the rest were like take my power, it's fine. mr. president we laud and love you. malcolm nance, jill wine-banks, elie mystal, they're all like dinner party, breakfast party. brunch parties. that's david that has the food, not me. coming up, donald trump's very cruel budget. more than half of our community have discovered their irish roots. which means your smiling eyes, might be irish too. order ancestrydna, and find the surprises in you. just $59 through march 18th.
coming up with very little fanfare donald trump released his budget this week. we'll tell you what it tells us about the two americas when we come back. come back. (whispers) with the capital one venture card... you'll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day... not just "airline purchases". think about all the double miles you could be earning... (loud) holy moley that's a lot of miles!!! shhhhh! ♪
andrea, i serve on the budget committee and on the appropriations committee and i can tell you one thing, this budget quite frankly is immoral, and it's sinister. when you look at the fact that we said early on, democrats, who did not vote, we did not vote for the tax cut, we said that we would see huge cuts in medicare, medicaid, social security. guess what? this budget verifies that. >> in a world of vetoes by tweet and open clashes with congress, donald trump's 2020 budget managed to slip under the radar this week. but we took a look at the proposal which is being rejected by both parties. trump's budget makes $2.7 trillion in cuts to nondefense programs. that includes slashing funds from key programs, actually that
help our economy grow such as health care, education and agriculture. joining me is gene spurling, former national economic adviser to president obama and president clinton. and gene, great to see you. thanks for being here this morning. >> thanks for having me. it's been a great show so far. >> neemts hearing you. hopefully you will pop back if my ear. you wrote a piece called "economic dignity" for the democracy journal. i will read a bit. at a moment when the very capacity of modern capitalism to avoid accelerating inequally a hollowed out middle class structural poverty and growing insecurity is being questioned we should be stepping back to reflect on what is precisely the economic goal we aspire to. describe why you wrote the piece and what brought it on? >> i think people think economics has to be confusing, that it has to be about metrics, gdp, debt as a percentage of the economy. what it's about what is your its mate goal, your ultimate goal for lifting up people.
i want to say as someone who has been in this, our ultimate goal and north star should be the economic dignity of all people. i wanted to lay out what that meant and how that applied to policy. i put down three pillars. one is that not only should a person who contributes be able to care for their family, but they should be able to enjoy the greatest, most fulfilling moments in life, the birth of their child, taking care of a sick parent, without it being denied by economic deprivation. number two, government can't guarantee our happiness but all of us should be able to pursue our potential and our sense of purpose even if we need first, second and third chances. and third, we should be able to participate in the economy without a sense of domination or humiliation. what i said is, the ultimate pat meth tri metric you want to think about what would a person on their death bed say mattered most on
their economic life and that should be the north star and say how that would apply to different policies and might make you realize something like paid family medical leave is really a very important issue because part of your economic dignity is being able to be there for your child or be there for a sick parent, that's pretty important. health care is a right, not just important to the person who has the health care, think about a patient, what could hurt your economic dignity more than a sense you had an ill child and you could not care for them or you had to bankrupt your family trying. >> it's interesting that you made the point about what do you want to be remembered for. what do you want to look back on. when donald trump puts together a budget like this with his team and he cuts medicare which is health care for the elderly, by $845 billion, medicaid, by $1.5 trillion, for the poorest people in this country, when the safety net cuts are slashed 13%, snap
used to be called food stamps down 30%, when those things happen i just wonder what does that say about the country that this would even be considered? it's not that different than the old paul ryan budgets? >> well, you know, it's a little bit like i was saying. budgets can seem technical and people's eyes can glaze over but they are a value statement, not much different than the value statement a family makes on how they decide to use their budget. also, you have to look at the full trump budget. let's start with they decided that it was okay to spend $2 trillion on a tax cut that when overwhelmingly to the largest companies, tax cut from 35% to 21%, top 1% a lower bracket, so you have to compare, what are your values when you'll spend $2 trillion on that, but then at the same time, you turn around and you say, we can afford -- we want to cut medicaid for -- by
hundreds of billions. forget those numbers. think about what that means. millions of americans. losing their health care. millions of americans struggling to get by perhaps becoming bankrupt. as you said, the food security. but also, i want to talk about how it hurts everyone. they're cutting $200 billion in student loan help. they've decided that they can lower tax cuts, lower tax rates for major corporations but they're going to raise interests on students at a time when the student debt issue is one of the greatest moral and economic issues we have. another thing buried in this budget, a 12% cut for national institute of health and 10% for disease control. are americans out there saying we need to give amazon a tax cut, but we should cut the funding and research we're doing for some day finding cures for cancer and alzheimer's. i don't think so.
this does defy i think a very basic value statement and i really hope more democrats and more of the candidates talk about it in those terms. >> at the same time it's bizarre to me to think this is an issue that only democrats should care about. i mean you think about those things you talked about but will hurt americans and trump voters you meet the one who works for pbs and on with ali, when you're out talking about donald trump's vote woers will be hurt by the policies what do they say? let me let you hear how she responded. >> i have interviewed a bunch of trump supporters and even as they are hurt by programs that president trump cut or taken away, they somehow still turn to the republicans and say this party better reflects my party than democrats. while farmers will be upset at the trade issues and immigration issues where we're hearing stories farmers can't get employees to pick their fields there's this idea that i think
his base could still stick with him. that could still happen. >> people willing to burn their lives down in order to have what, what are people getting in exchange for having their own economic lives destroyed? >> well, mine, it's exactly right. for example, not to keep going to numbers, but there's a 15% cut in department of agriculture. they're not just cutting food stamps but cutting conservation programs, crop subsidies at the same time the same people are suffering his reckless and irrational and at times trade policies. i think what it does show and i think it is important is that you do have to talk about those end goals, get out of the ideology and talk what does it mean for your economic dignity. think about preexisting conditions. when that was an ideological issue, government market are you for or against obama, it was a controversial issue, but when people focus on do you believe somebody be in your family because they have a child with a
disability or a spouse with a condition, should not be able to change health care, should get their prices jacked up, when it was put in those terms, the public overwhelmingly supported the protection from the affordable care act, the protections for preexisting conditions. i think we all have to do better on getting to that ultimate impact on people because i think if we do, they will see that donald trump has betrayed all americans, that he is dividing us, not for us, he is not supporting people's economic dignities and the type of idea progressives are putting forward on health care as a right, on paid family leave, on -- >> yeah. >> helping people when they've lost a job have a second chance, or even have a first chance, that's the type of thing that will be good economically but speak to people's heart and values. >> right. gene, thank you so much. it's a treat to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you so much. coming up a real life hero. stick around.
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potential impact and influence it may have. >> for the second time in five months a boeing max 8 jet has crashed leading countries around the world to ground the new model of 737. it took two days for the united states to follow suit. one factor for the delay may be the chummy relationship between the boeing ceo dennis mullenberg and donald trump quoting yahoo finance, he donated $1 million to trump's inaugural committee, visited trump's mar-a-lago club in 2016 and promised to new air force one planes for less than $4 billion as trump demanded. joining me is sully sullenberger, famed miracle on the hudson pilot and also an aviation safety expert. captain sully sullen burg, always a treat to talk to you. thanks for coming on. >> it's great to be with you. >> this, the flight of this ethiopian airlines this tragic crash, the first thing people
went to was to blame the airline, blame the pilots, try to find some explanation there. but even after people started to raise issues with the plane, what do you make of the fact that it still took two days for the united states for the faa to ground the fleet? the faa to ground the fleet? >> this is a concern. oversight means accountability. the regulatory body, the faa which is responsible for everyone's safety when they travel must can independent enough to be able to do their jobs without undue influence of commercial considerations. i would add that i have written books about what a stock business case there is for safety. that anything but the shortest term, quality and safety pay for themselves. it's always better and cheaper to get it right than try to repair the damage after the fact. when there's loss of life, there's no way to repair that damage. we have to do a much better job when we introduce new systems making sure in trying to
mitigate one risk we don't create others. >> is the faa in a position that is full of conflicts? meaning that this is the body that certifies planes to make sure they're safe and an economic function of making sure that the airline industrial is profitable for the united states. is that a core problem with just the way the faa is structured? >> i think there is an inherent conflict. that's a tension that exists around the world. we have to find the right balance. and in terms of companies protecting their products, i understand the need for that. as hard as they work to protect their products, they need to work harder to protected those who use them. that's the only way, the best way to protect their brand. >> we saw in this case that you had the union that represents flight attendants say wait a minute, we don't feel safe get in these planes. can pilot abc other people who work in these planes, are they allowed to object and say i won't fly this plane? >> i missed the last part of
your question? >> can pilots and also those who is work inside of the cabin in these planes just object and say i refuse to fly on this plane, i don't think it's safe? >> there have been cases where that's occurred in the military and in civilian aviation. that's important. of course, the captain by statute, by law is ultimately responsible for every aspect of the flight. and anytime that they're not confident that the flight can safely be continued, they're not going to start it. >> what would you as a very good pilot, how does the public know that it's safe to fly? we can't count on every pilot being as good as sully sullenberger. how do we know it's safe? >> it's not just the pilots or flight attendants. we would have a system of aviation safety, laser of it. we have to create an entire system that is robust and resilient in which people can make sure that the best practices are adhered to on every flight day after day, week after week for years and in which they are prepared, armed
with the knowledge, skills and judgment and experience to encounter a system they or a challenge they've never seen before and get it right the first time. it's important that everyone who flies is able to have the confidence that every part of the safety system is intact and working the way it's designed. that requires great leadership throughout the entire industry from the very top to the very bottom. >> in this case, i don't think there's been a final determination what caused the crash but there is question of the automated functions, when the plane was under control of the pilot, it was fine but once it switched over to the automated systems. who regulates those systems? is there a test they have to go through? >> there are.tests as part of the approval of a design before it's manufactured and put into service. so all those tests must be done. you have to realize what a complicated system we have now. it's important that everyone who operates the airplane have a
full and accurate understanding of all the systems and that every system that's important in the airplane is made known to those who operate the airplane. >> does it trouble you, sir, the relationship that the ceo of boeing has personally with the president of the united states? it was donald trump who seemed to have push for the delay in grounding the fleet? there's this mar-a-lago connection, these donations. does that trouble you when you see that kind of closeness between a ceo of an airline and the president? >> yes. >> very succinctly said. do you think there's a way that the public can weigh in in terms of i don't know, what can the public do? this is his decision. >> well, i disagree with that assessment. i think the public is the ultimate check and balance in every as pickett of our lives and certainly in our civic, public one. so we need to make our voices heard. we need to talk to every
representative in government to make our voice clear that this is important, this matters. this is a matter of life and death. >> captain sully sullenberger, the person you want to talk to about subjects like this. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you. more "am joy" after the break. more "am joy" after the break. loves still strong. ♪ ♪ ooo baby, here i am, signed, sealed, delivered, i'm yours ♪ applebee's 3 course meal now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. beauty editors have tried everything. in search of a whiter smile. their choice? crest 3d whitestrips. our exclusive whitening formulation safely whitens 25 times better*. for a noticeably whiter, smile. trust america's #1 whitening treatment. crest 3d whitestrips. [laughter] ♪
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want more from your entejust say teach me more. into your xfinice remote to discover all sorts of tips and tricks in x1. can i find my wifi password? just ask. [ ding ] show me my wifi password. hey now! [ ding ] you can even troubleshoot, learn new voice commands and much more. clean my daughter's room. [ ding ] oh, it won't do that. welp, someone should. just say "teach me more" into your voice remote and see how you can have an even better x1 experience. simple. easy. awesome. before we go, our senior producer, belinda walker is spending the day with her
grandpa on his birthday. mr. president tom franklin of madison, georgia, turned 100 years old on friday. mr. franklin, we here want to wish you a wonderful, happy birthday. there's also someone else who wants to join in on that sentiment. drum roll. 44th president of the united states, barack obama sent this amazing note to the mr. franklin. that's awesome. congratulations on the first 100 years of your life. here's to many more says the president. of up next, alex witt left me all alone but she's next. >> look, you know how many times you and i have threatened to be out here together? >> my gosh. >> can you help me wish my father a happy birthday tomorrow? that's why i'm here to celebrate birthday for my daddy. >> wonderful birthday. >> all these wonderful men who we admire and love. >> happy birthday to all. >> see you in a bit. >> good day from right here at
msnbc headquarters in los angeles, high noon in the wes east nt /* /-. the suspect behind the massacre. police want to note where he went and with whom he met. president trump responds. what he said when directly asked about the rise in white nationalism. new reaction today. veto power. the president uses it for the first time, but a lot of republicans have abandoned him on the national emergency issue. will this be a trend? new reports how democrats are secretly investigating the first daughter. what are they looking for? i'm going to ask a leading congressman that question and more next. new details on the attacks on two new zealand mosques but an australian national. investigators are looking into possible contacts that the suspect may have made in europe, asia, and africa. officials in turkey and