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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 16, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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and then there's president trump and his attack on democrats as the party of socialism. how does senator booker respond to that canard? you're not going to want to miss it. cory booker plays "hardball" monday night. and at 8:00 p.m., chris hayes hosts a special town hall event in michigan with senator kirsten gillibrand of new york. monday will be a big night here on msnbc. be sure to tune in early. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> clearly, what has happened here is an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. >> horror in new zealand. a white nationalist terrorist attacks two mosques, murdering 49 people during friday prayer. >> i just don't understand why someone would hurt us like this. and in such a way. >> reporter: tonight, reaction to the atrocity and the right-wing extremism behind it. >> do you see today white nationalism as a rising threat around the world?
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>> i don't really. i think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems. >> then, donald trump tries to spin his massive congressional defeat. congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it. plus, what the latest request from robert mueller tells us about the status of the investigation and how a defamation lawsuit could force the president to testify under oath. >> total lies. and you've been seeing, total lies. >> "all in" starts now. >> good evening from new york. i'm joy reid in for chris hayes. well, it's been nearly a day since a terrorist attack in which a gunman massacred 49 men, women, and children in two new zealand mosques. a manifesto that appears to have been posted online by the shooter includes anti-muslim rhetoric. and references the president of the united states in a kind of mock quiz reading, quote,
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were/are you a supporter of donald trump? as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? su sure. trump was asked about the spread of white nationalism at a white house event earlier today. >> do you see today as white nationalism as a rising threat around the world? >> i don't, really. i think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems. i guess if you look at what happened in new zealand, perhaps that's a case. i don't know enough about it yet. they're just learning about the person and the people involved. but it's certainly a terrible thing. terrible thing. >> trump did not publicly comment on the attack for 11 hours until posting on twitter, quote, my warmest sympathy and best wishes go out to the people of new zealand after the horrible massacre in the mosques. 49 innocent people have so senselessly died, with so many more so seriously injured. the u.s. stands by new zealand for anything we can do. god bless us all. just 20 minutes later, trump
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followed with a tweet encouraging jewish people to leave the democratic party. before launching into a twitter rant accusing the fbi, the department of justice, and the cia of working to spy on him and, quote, take him out. trump's tirade about the subject he clearly preferred to focus on included a litany of his greatest hits, claiming zero crimes when the special counsel was appointed, saying there should be no mueller report, and ending with, this should never tho happen to a president again. speaking earlier, new zealand prime minister, jucinda ardern says when asked what he could do help, she said sympathy and love for all muslim communities, and she said the president acknowledged and agreed, which is kind of surprising considering everything that trump has said about muslims in the past. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our
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country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. yes, we have to look at mosques. we have no choice. we have to see what's happening. because something is happening in there. >> -- problem in this country. it's called muslims. we know our current president is one. >> right. >> you know he's not even an american. >> we need this question! this is first question! >> but anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us. that's my question. when can we get rid of them? >> we're going to be looking at a lot of different things. and you know, a lot of people are saying that, and a lot of people are saying, bad things are happening out there. we'll be looking at that and plenty of other things. >> i think islam hates us. there's something -- there's something there -- there's a tremendous hatred there. there's a tremendous hatred. >> a study by the anti-defamation league going back to 1970 found in the u.s., 73.3% of all extremist-related
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fatalities can be linked to domestic right-wing extremists. while 23.4% can be attributed to islamic extremist. donald trump's derogatory comments about muslims and his refusal to condemn white supremacy have undermined american's moral authority when events like what happened in new zealand take place. there are more than a dozen democrats currently vying to replace donald trump in the oval office. and one question for each of them will be how, and frankly if a new president can get that authority back. joining me now is one of those candidates, julian castro, former secretary of housing and urban development under president obama. secretary castro, thank you for being here. >> great to be with you, joy. >> so i want to play for you what the director of care, the council on american islamic relations, minhah aukad said the following about donald trump. >> it is no secret that mr.
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trump has campaigned on white supremacist ideology, on division and fear. and now we see that he was able to normalize islamophobia and to give legitimacy to those who fear muslims and fear immigrants. so it comes back to him and we tell him that your words matter and your policies matter. if he would like to be the leader of the free world, he has to change his policies. and he has to reset the tone by recommitting himself to unity, equality, not only in words, but also in policies. so he has a lot to do and we hope that he will take the first step by condemning this as a white supremacist attack. >> secretary castro, when the president of the united states is spoken about that way by an american muslim leader in the wake of the attack like what happened in new zealand, how does the united states get back
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its moral authority in order to respond in a profound way when something like what happens in new zealand take place? >> well, you know, unfortunately, i think that as many have said, this president has lost his moral authority, in different ways. he lost it around charlottesville when he said that there were very fine people, those neo-nazis that were marching in the street, shouting racial epithets. and we can always hope that the president is going to realize the error of his ways or be pressured into taking a different posture or coming at this differently and trying to unify the country and instead of fanning the flames of division, trying to build unity in this country and how people view muslims and islam. i don't think that's going to happen. i think that we've seen who donald trump is. that's one of the reasons that we need new leadership. in the meantime, i do think that
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everybody else, all of us who recognize that we should try and build unity, who recognize that the acts of a few people don't speak for either all white people or any other group when they commit terrorist acts, and who certainly recognize differently from donald trump, that islam does not hate america or the united states, it's up to us to help rebuild that moral authority in america, to speak out from our positions of leadership and authority, in our houses of worship. what we teach in schools, all of us, as mothers and fathers and what we teach our children, we have to rebuild that up from the ground. because the president's leadership is lacking here. it's entirely missing. and we can't count on donald trump to do that. it's just not within him. >> but secretary castro, you know donald trump is one person, but he was elected by lots and lots of people. he has a lot of very strident
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support behind him. he has a party that is 100% unified behind him, as we just saw. only 12 managed to walk away from him, even in the declaration of a national emergency based on this idea of, you know, a horde coming at the southern border. for sworn in as president in january of 2021, what do you tell the word? as you go abroad, what story do you then tell us about as a country that changes the current view? >> well, i would tell the story of the way that after the synagogue shooting in pittsburgh that there were muslim americans who comforted jewish americans who had been harmed, whose family members had been killed. a community that had been completely shaken. and that today, there were jewish americans that were comforting muslim americans and people of all different backgrounds in this country that showed the character of our
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nation. that character is not reflected by donald trump. so all we have to do is show them the character of this country, and i think, once we have new leadership, we are going to have a president with new moral authority and the ability to go to other countries and say that it's a new day in the united states and that we're here to build alliances and believe in others and not to tear those things down. >> secretary, julian castro, candidate for president, thank you very much. really appreciate your time. >> thank you, thank you. >> joining me now are adam serwer, staff writer at the atlantic. his latest piece is entitled "white nationalism's deep american roots." also meni hasan, host of the deconstructed bod ca deconstructed podcast. adam, you have a harrowing, brilliant piece, i have to say, in the atlantic, that is jarring for even people who think we got
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a pretty decent american history education, because you go right in and you talk about some of the white nationalist seeds of even -- that inspire even the nazi ideology in germany. is that to say that this ideology is embedded in a way that is inextricable from american history? >> i think it's one side of an argument that we've been having as an american since the country was founded. is this a country that is fundamentally a white and christian country? and that this is just the fundamental part of its identity, without which it's no longer really america, or is america a place where anybody can be american, anyone of any race, creed, or color. and i think we've been having that argument for pretty much since the country was founded. and i think we're going to continue to have it. what i was trying to do with this essay was contextualize the fact that we've been having this argument for such a long time. that trump is not necessarily
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anything new. in fact, a hundred years ago, we were having a very similar political conversation and in some ways, was much more grim. >> and you know, whatever one thinks about donald trump or his political ideology, it is jarring to hear the president of the united states' name kind of dropped in an insane manifesto by somebody who commits an act like this. and i wonder just how you contextualize this, even for american muslims, who are looking across at new zealand and feeling, you know, afraid, even here. >> definitely feeling afraid and feeling depressed and feeling worried. and you're right to mention the president of the united states. it isn't normal for him to be mentioned in a manifesto, for the president to be mentioned in the manifesto of a mass shooter as some kind of inspiration or sharing a common purpose. but of course, this guy in new zealand wasn't the first to do that. i wrote a piece a few months ago after the cesar sayiac, the guy with the pipe bombs that was arrested just before the
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pittsburgh shooting, about the number of guys arrested, there was a guy in minnesota. a guy in quebec city, january 2017, six muslims gunned ene ny canadian white nationalists shortly after trump's inauguration. there are many, many cases out there. this is not a one-off and this is not new. and trump is an enabler of white nationalism. he is the world's most prominent isl islamophobe, so of course we're going to talk about the president and i'm glad you played that video at the start of all of the things he's said, some of them, he's said many more of that. it is deeply depressing, i say this about the father of two american muslim kids, how do you talk to them that the president doesn't give a damn about their safety. and when he's asked in the white house, does he think it's on the rise, he says, no, it's just a small group of people. of course! because they're his people. >> and adam, as i said to the secretary, donald trump is one man. there's a whole infrastructure supporting the presidency.
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and at the moment, that infrastructure obviously includes, you know, in our government, the courts. this ban on travelers that was originally even sold by donald trump as a muslim ban ultimately god uphold. there are policies in place that have got to be jarring for american muslims, even as they receive the sympathy of so many people around the country. do we have to have a deeper conversation, just about americans' ability to empathize with our muslim brothers and sisters, period? >> well, i think politically, the country pretty strongly rejected donald trump's politics, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim politics in the midterms. so i don't know that a conversation is going to do it. i think this is really a question, again, it's a struggle about who america is going to be. and when you look at stuff like the muslim ban, i mean that -- that in particular is extraordinary, because the supreme court essentially gave donald trump a road map for implementing discriminatory policy. they said, look, as long as you leave the really obvious
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language out of it, we'll be okay with it. as long as you don't say muslim in the ban, it's fine. so i think, you know, we're headed for, you know, a lot more bumps in the road, beyond just this. >> and you know, mehdi, at last global thing that's happening around the movement of human beings, and a lot of it does center on the muslim world. you look at a safe country like new zealand, they don't have our gun issues, they don't have the kind of gun violence that we have here, does this kind of thing then make you think more globally about whether or not that movement that is spurring a lot of white nationalism, not just here, but around the world, is there something that can be done to counteract it? >> it's a great question. and by the way, on the gun law situation, the prime minister of new zealand says they're going to tighten up their gun law after one mass shootings. the first response is not thoughts and prayers, but tighten up our laws. trump's talking nonsense when he says they're not on the rise.
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look at across western europe, eastern europe, look at the united states of america where you have an enabler of white nationalism in the white house. it's a real problem. and to pretend -- here's what you have to do about it, joy. we have to be able to talk about the people who are mainstreaming it. it's very easy to say the alt-right, the david dukes, the richard spencers. it's very easy to attack them. even trump can attack them. let's talk about what people in our industry are doing. the kind of hate speech and islamic nobo islamophobia that they are tracking in recently. you head that manifesto from this horrific individual in new zealand. and a lot of that language is language you hear and see in newspapers and magazines and on cable news. who's going to call that out? it's very easy to call out slaum nobo islamophobia on the day of a mass killing. >> it is a very important conversation to have. adam serwer and mehdi hasan,
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thank you very much. coming up, after congress issued the president a major rebuke, the president issued a veto. in a stunning scene, how the move puts him and his fellow republicans in a weakened position. that's next. republicans in a we position that's next. look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we're all under one roof now. congratulations. thank you. how many kids? my two. his three. along with two dogs and jake, our new parrot. that is quite the family. quite a lot of colleges to pay for though. a lot of colleges. you get any financial advice? yeah, but i'm pretty sure it's the same plan they sold me before. well your situation's totally changed now. right, right. how 'bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here? that would be great.
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i work at the network operations center for comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. fresh off a humiliating rebuke from members of his own party, with 12 senate republicans voting with democrats to cancel his fake national emergency, donald trump today held a ceremony to formally veto the measure. the veto signing doubled as a pr stunt with the president trotting out old faithful. his tired rhetoric about the alleged invasion at the southern border. trump's alarmism backed by his favorite tv channel has utterly failed to convince the majority
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of americans that they should pay for a wall, a vanity wall, that incidentally trump promised that mexico would pay for. before he signed the veto to override the will of congress, trump engaged in his favorite form of self-affirmation, surrounding himself by supporter who is one by one ritually praised him and applauded his bold move toll circumvent congress and the constitution. because in the end, doesn't every president who lacks the support of the majority need to be told just how wonderful they are? >> mr. president, thank you, always, for your leadership and great support. >> your declaration of an emergency on the southern border was clearly authorized under the law. >> i don't know that i've ever been more proud to be standing next to your desk than i am today. and thank you for keeping your word, mr. president. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it. >> and our hats are off you again, sir. it's an honor to be here. >> we commend you, we applaud you, and i salute you, sir. >> we're behind you, and thank you and god bless for what
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you're doing. >> thank you, sheriff. >> joining me now is norm ornstein, residential scholar at the american enterprise institute and msnbc political analyst, michael steele, former chairman of the republican national convention. and gentlemen, i don't think i've ever been more honored to be on television. i just cannot believe how amazing you both are, truly >> right back at you, joy. >> the honor's mine. the honor's mine. you're just fantastic. it's fantabulous. >> the way you tied your ties, just amazing. let me start with you, chairman steele. so -- >> you're vice presidential material, joy. >> you know what, i have to start looking a bit longingly when i talk to you all. and we'll get it together. michael steele, it strikes me that donald trump felt like today was strengthening him. that he was showing those 12 republicans what for by showing how much support he has. but i wonder if you agree with me, he's not only weakened himself, he's weakened them. because when all of those
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southwestern united states senators, people like ted cruz and john cornyn go back to their constituents, how do they protect them now from things like eminent domain? they've already said it's okay to take their land? how do they protect their constituents now? >> well, they got out of the constituent protection business quite a while ago. so i don't think -- i don't think that that's first and foremost on their mind. what's first and foremost on their mind is being primaried or being weakened sufficiently because of how trump does not support them during the re-election, and that makes them vulnerable to democrats next year. i have a different slant on what today was about. you know, for me, the vote of the 12 was rather meaningless, because as the president himself touted, it's not a big deal. you can't override my veto, so this is all good. i still win. so this was a win for the president, regardless of how people want to go back and say how republicans, you know, created -- there are fissures and the republicans showed the president, you know, they stood
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strong. give him -- you know, put up 67 votes. put up -- put up a veto number in the house and then you will have drawn that line in the sand with the president. but today, the president was gloating, as he typically does at these things. he's not weakened, at all. he's strengthened by this. and that's pretty much what he was -- you know, doing. short of dancing around the desk, this was his moment >> but, you know, norm ornstein, two michael steele's point, only one of the republicans who are actually up for re-election in 2020 bucked the president, and that would be susan collins, who's so endangered, she went ahead and voteded with the 12. but 19 voted with him. i guess the question i would ask you is, how do you have a constitutional republic with checks and balances if one-half of the first branch of government is too afraid to use its checks and balances? >> so, i -- let me first start by pointing out a stunning poll result.
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the gallup poll today showed that 4% of democrats approve of trump, 90% of republicans do. that 86-point difference is the largest in history, since we've been recorded these things, in terms of a partisan gap. but as long as 90% of republicans approve of trump, most of them are going to run scared and not take him on no matter what. and if you look at even the rationale of most of the 12 who voted against him in case, it was not, we're going to fight against executive power and this overreach by donald trump. it was, oh, my god, if we allow this to happen, the next democratic president is going to run roughshod over with us, with the green new deal, and with the health care plan, medicare for all, or whatever. so they were trying to avoid taking on trump. and when you look at the responses of people like -- you know, absolutely cringe-worthy
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responses by thom tillis, by ben sasse, who are up next time, the ones who fear a primary challenge and reversing themselves, basically, and abandoning all of their principles, it doesn't tell us a lot of very good things about checks and balances from a party now that has basically gone all in from whatever outrageous trump promotes or proposes. >> you know, i'm old enough to remember when the kilo decision versus the city of new london outraged the entire right. and this was a supreme court decision about the government being able to take people's land and that was a thing republicans cared about. i wonder, what are the chances that somebody like a ben sasse draws a tea party-style challenge in a primary of someone who says, you're not a constitutional skr naal conserv. we're running against you? >> that's an interesting thought. but it is more than likely that that challenge will come from someone who has doubled, triple, quadrupled down with donald trump. and will hold up whatever little daylight that may exist between
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someone like ben sasse and the president as a reason why he should be taken down. so i don't think -- you know, if it's coming from his right, it's going to be someone who's more aligned with trump than the incumbent. and that's what has a lot of these individuals in the senate and the house nervous about 2020. look, they've got double problems. they've got their right flank where trump loyalists are looking to take them on, and certainly, at least create some pain for them. and then on their left flank, they've got center-right democrats, particularly in those purplish states and states that hillary clinton won, who are poised to take their seats anyway. >> yeah. >> so, you know, my thing is, die on the principle and the flag that you're doing it right for the country and not the
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president. >> i know you were quite exorcised that the president made about having the tough guys in his pocket. what is that. what is he doing when he's doing that, in your view? >> that to me was the most significant and chilling news story before the horrible tragedy in knew zealand. this is insigciting or at least threatening violence. when you say, i've got the military, i've got the police and i've got bikers for trump. and things could get very bad. we know, first of all, that there are crazy people out there or people who are easily persuaded, who will take that as a signal that they better keep their assault weapons locked and loaded. and we also know that there is a chance, and it's something we just have to consider, a worst-case scenario, where as mueller, the southern district of new york, and others get closer to trump, he might call on his people to take to the streets, and that could bring us violence, and that's where this declaration of an emergency,
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which could be used again to declare martial law, is not something that we should view as just alarmist talk. it's something we should be talking about and preparing for and we should be condemning those kinds of reckless statements by a president of the united states that are unprecedented. >> yeah. we are living in dark times, my friends. norm ornstein, michael steele, thank you both. really appreciate your time. up next, former trump campaign deputy rick gates is still cooperating with several noi ongoing investigations. we'll review where those investigations stand after this. investigations stand after this. . . ♪ ♪
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another day, another clue about what special counsel robert mueller is up to. and today, for the -- i mean, for the fifth time, the sentencing of trump's former deputy campaign manager, rick gates, was delayed because, quote, defendant gates continues to cooperate with respect to several ongoing investigations. according to a joint status report to the court. gates hasn't been in the spotlight since he testified against his former boss, paul manafort, but he's been cooperating with the mueller probe for more than a year. to help us sort it all out, i'm joined by marcy wheeler, an independent journalist writing about national securities and civil liberties on empty wheel, a and carol lamb, a former superior court judge. ladies, thank you very much and you tweeted today, again, several ongoing investigations could be sdny, greg craig, tony podesta, vim weber, sdny,
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inauguration gift, psygroup, eliot broidy, or separate cl. can you explain that real quickly? >> the president's former deputy campaign manager knows so much about potential crimes that we don't know which of those several investigations are still ongoing or even if he's still working on the mueller probe. so the key ones are the inauguration graft, which sdny, manhattan prosecutors -- manhattan federal prosecutors are looking into. he was very closely involved in that. so he would be a good witness there. paul manafort's contractors. so greg craig, tony podesta, vim weber, they're all under investigation in new york. so he would be a good witness there, too. psygroup was one of these quasi social media spying groups that pitched him and pitched others in the campaign and they were investigated under mueller, but maybe on their own.
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elliott broidy is a big republican fund-raiser who's also under investigation. and then we know that mueller investigated some of the russian active measures, but there are people like konstantin kilimnik or ole olpeska may be under investigation. >> and you know, i wonder if, for the average person, you look at this and you think, this gentlemen is still not being sentenced. is it typical for a cooperating witness to get this many opportunities to delay? and does the delay indicate that his cooperation might mean that he's going to get a really light sentence? >> so, joy, it's very typical for defendants to have their sentences continued many, many times, because you can understand from the defendant's perspective, and from his lawyer's perspective, the longer they can put off the sentence, obviously, the better for them, but also, they want to have as
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much as they can to convince the judge that they've done everything possible to cooperate. that includes testifying in front of grand juries, meeting with prosecutors, maybe in some instances, although probably not this one, anymore, in some instances, doing undercover calls. and ultimately, testifying at trial. if they can lay out everything they've done, it's much more likely that the judge will accept a prosecutor's recommendation of a lighter sentence. i think another thing that's going on here is, you know, there are 94 u.s. attorney's offices out there, and they all like to do important and interesting cases. and when you have individuals like rick gates and paul manafort, who have demonstrated that there aren't many limitations to what kind of fraudulent white-collar crime they're willing to get involved in, they can leave a lot of bread crumbs in different offices or in different districts, where the u.s. attorneys in those districts will say, hey, maybe there's something here i should
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investigate. we know that new york state has brought charges against paul manafort. maybe they're looking for cooperation from rick gates, as well. so there are lots of paths that this could take. >> and so marcy, then, if rick gates is a veritable movable feast of information, is there any sense as to who is he is the biggest threat to? is it donald trump, one of the trump children, or just more to pile on to paul manafort? >> no, it's absolutely donald trump. i remember when he flipped, somebody said, well, he used to carry the president's phone, so he knows exactly what the president was doing during this whole time period. there are still roles in court documents that we've seen rolled out that we don't know who played that role. for example, who is the one that was directed to get roger stone to go reach out to wikileaks to find out what they were publishing? stone himself said that was probably rick gates. so that ties stone right next to trump and that witness, that person, would know who ordered
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him to tell stone to go reach out to wikileaks. that's just one example. but there are going to be tons for gates. >> very lastly, carol, inwonder if there's a sense that you have that, even if some of these guys are helping out and cooperating, they still did a lot of bad stuff. is it just a layman's misunderstanding to say that it seems like most of the people who have been sentenced so far have gotten pretty light sentences. >> well, that's not a misunderstanding. but these kinds of cooperators, the ones that have very, very helpful inside knowledge, they're going to get a lot of credit for full, forthcoming cooperation as opposed to sort of limited cooperation that we've sometimes seen with some other people. if they really bear their souls and tell all, they're going to get very light sentences, generally speaking. rick gates pled to a 51 -- i'm sorry, to 57-71 month sentence. he's going to get a lot of time cut from that sentence, because without that kind of consideration being given,
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you're not going to have important cooperating witnesses in the future. >> and i just still think people out there in the regular world are saying, how can i bear my soul to make sure that we get it and get a similar shake? marcy wheeler, carol lamb, thank you both very much. still ahead, a court rules that the president can be sued for defamation, setting up a potential for a deposition related to allegations of sexual misconduct. ellie mystal joins me to talk about that, next. ie mystal joink about that, next
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image if you will the president of the united states the president of the united states sitting down to talk about sexual harassment allegations. that is what happened when the 1994 paula jones lawsuit against president bill clinton set the stage for his impeachment. yesterday, a manhattan court ruled that the current president, donald trump, cannot avoid a defamation suit filed by former "apprentice" contestant summer zervos. zervos is one of a dozen women who came forward to accuse trump of sexual misconduct shortly before the 2016 election, which
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means that trump, like president clinton, could be forced to testify under oath. trump's lawyers tried to block the suit, arguing that the president is immune from such lawsuits in state court, but a panel of new york appellate judges disagreed, citing the u.s. supreme court's ruling in clinton v jones, which determines that presidents can be sued in office for acts unrelated to the presidency. i am joined by ellie mystal, editor of abovethelaw.com. the latest these titled, lawsuit, with the best chance of putting trump under continues. >> this is the ultimate bill clinton leave behind. >> it is such a leave behind. republicans felt like they were spiking the football when they made bill clinton having to testify. >> your last segment with marcy wheeler, she's so good. and i understand it's very difficult to keep all the different strings. look, donald trump is in more legal jeopardy than any president of the united states in the history of the united
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states. i'm including jefferson davis in that, like -- but this suit, this is the way that you put donald trump under oath, talking about his sexual misconduct. if he lies, he ends up exactly where bill clinton ended up. and people forget, bill clinton was smart. donald trump forgets the subject before he gets to the predicate. i know republicans don't like me to remind them of bill clinton, but this is what bill clinton got impeached for. getting cute under oath about sexual misconduct. and now all of that can happen to donald trump. >> so perjury and obstruction. so the same thing >> yes. >> so the question is, so donald trump will have two choices in this deposition. he can lie, which is perjury. >> yes. >> or he can tell the truth and then what happens. >> yes. so let's assume that he lies, because that's his thing, right? that opens him up to all of these perjury issues and all of these obstruction issues. and it's very bad for him, if we go by the precedent set under the clinton years. if he tells the truth -- if the
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tells the truth, he is opening himself up to -- remember, we are now up to 23 women who have accused donald trump of sexual misconduct. we have a tape where donald trump explains how he sexually misconducted himself in his own words. if he tells the truth about what he -- about his modus operandi with summer zervos, that opens him up to lawsuits from pretty much everybody. because donald trump's entire defense through all of this has been shaggy. it wasn't me. i didn't do it. all of these people are lying. so having called all of these people liars. if he goes and tells the truth and says, yes, i did do this to summer zervos, all of these other women have justice, have an opportunity to access justice. he's in a real -- it's not a good place. he should keep his hands to himself. >> maybe. >> he says he just kisses. that's what he said in the tape, right? now, during the bill clinton saga, the smart people said, why
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didn't he just settle? if donald trump were to settle and if there are 22 other women out there, does that then open a cascade of money going out the door? >> i think the reason he won't settle is because he can't settle because summer doesn't want his money anymore. she doesn't want the fake money that she has, she wants to be treated with dignity and respect. and that is the one thing trump is unable to treat women with. so i don't think she would settle for anything less than a full apology. that i don't see trump giving her. >> one quick question before we go. if donald trump were to, let's say, lie in the deposition, it was perjury, who would be the court that would go after him? would this be a new york state situation or would it be federal? >> yeah, it's -- the problem is that, you know -- and i think we're seeing this a lot with manafort. you were kind of talking about it earlier. like, the penalties that we have for perjury are actually not that great. >> they're light. >> especially if you happen to be a rich, white man. so it's not like perjury puts him in jail. what perjury is supposed to do,
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when it happens from the chief executive of the united states, that it's supposed to trigger this political process that we call impeachment. we're supposed to hold our presidents to a higher standard. at least that's what republicans told me. >> yeah, yeah. >> so that's really where it should all come down on his head. >> apparently none of that is true when the president is a republican. elie mystal, thank you very much for joining us. and just ahead, what we're learning about the democratic hopefuls as they take their campaigns to the early primary states. ey take their campaigns to the early primary states with a barbershop quartet? [quartet singing] bum bum bum bum... pass the ball... pass the rock.. ...we're open just pass the ball! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. yea. [quartet singing] shoot the j! shoot, shoot, shoot the jaaaaaay... believe it! geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills?
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democratic presidential hopefuls are fanning out across the country and in those early-voting states. senator kirsten gillibrand at new york spoke in new hampshire where senator cory booker also campaigned today. that's not the only thing they have in common. you can see both of them here on msnbc on monday. senator cory booker will be on hardball on monday and senator kirsten gillibrand of new york will be in michigan with our very own chris hayes for the very first msnbc candidate town hall and you can see it in
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it is 599 days until the presidential election, mark your calendars. and we've already got 11 officially declared candidates with potentially more to come including a-listers like joe biden and stacey abrams. here to talk about what the field looks like now and on election day, democratic
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strategist and a fellow at the harvard university of politics. you have to say it like that. harvard. let's go to cornell first. cornell, this field is so big and will probably get bigger. is there anything like a front runner now, and what happens to it if biden and/or harris get in? >> no. i don't think you have a front runner even with biden getting in. if you look at that -- the iowa registry poll, the headline was biden leads, but he was only ahead of the pack by 2 points. that's not really a lead. you have a race right now that looks like 2004 than it did like in 2008 or in 2016. and why i say that, you have a crowded field of a lot of -- where i think a lot of a listers. and like 2004 when you had lieberman and kerry, you had a lot of candidates all bust around 15, 16, 17 percentage
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points in the national polls and i think you're going to have the same sort of thing right now. i think the candidate who -- who's probably that outsider candidate, who can show some electability, i like their chances. although, the dynamics of this race haven't unfolded and i don't think we've seen anything quite like this in modern times. >> meanwhile, you have beto o'rourke coming in with all this buzz, the democratic party has liked the southern white male candidate. on the younger hip side. does he have an advantage even though he doesn't have a platform other than anti the wall. >> i don't know if we call it an advantage. we have to acknowledge the man is electrifying. he speaks in a way where he's got a lot of energy. they don't go deep yet to figure out what his experience is. and i think that matters. i think people want to be excited by the candidate. they want to feel like somebody
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is speaking to them and beto does that to them. it remains to be seen, when all of these candidates are on the stage, i think there are several of them that are really great that have a lot of energy and enthusiasm and so i think that we're going to start to see that energy is what matters to people. people want someone who can stand up next to trump, look better than him, and i think beto gives us that energy. >> statement, cornell, you now have the battle of the white guys, which is beto, biden, and bernie, but then you might have three african-american candidates, if stacey abrams would get it in, you would have herself, harris and booker. what would that do for a race in south carolina? >> i think it's a wide open race. and i think it's a wide open race either way. i don't think -- i think if you look back at past histories here, i have to beat up a lot of reporters about this because they think just the african-american voters are going to naturally vote for the african-american candidate which is not true in the history of
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our primaries or we would have hat a democratic nominee before barack obama. and barack obama started out 20 points behind in south carolina to hillary clinton. i think all these candidates are going to have to work hard for it. i will say this, i think it gives the white candidates a greater opportunity to compete here especially if the african-american are splitting the vote. you could have a white candidate who can carry 25, 30% of the black vote in south carolina and gather some of the white vote. that is what i think this crowded field means. >> that is a fair point. but the south -- it just happens to be -- it was the place where bernie sanders seeded the election. he know black voters are important. when you talk about super-tuesday, about half those primaries, take out texas and california, are in the south. is there any candidate who you can look at right now and say
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that's the kind of candidate who could sweep a super-tuesday or at least get three or four primaries on that night? >> my opinion about stacey abrams getting into this race, i think she does best on super-tuesday largely because she was down there exciting people most recently. i think she kind of gets that vote right now for me. in terms of who can sweep, i agree with cornell. i think that -- i don't rule out biden just because there are enough people who are trying to cobble together and competing for those african-american voters in that region that might leave a plurality, they might go for him, they might go for beto. i'm not a pollster so i leave it to my friend to give us the expert advice. my gut tells me, it is so early, we are going to be surprised come next february. >> yes or no question, do castro and beto cancel each other out? >> no.
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they don't cancel each other out. but i will say this quickly, whoever we know is a front runner has not done well in our primaries. so look out for a dark horse. >> that was not one word. thank you, guys very much. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> you hit it on the post. boom. both feet on the tape. >> stuck the landing. >> thanks to you all at home for joining us this hour. happy friday. this have been a very newsy week. it is a me newsy friday. thursday going to be a big show. we got a lot to get here tonight. including someone who's you're very much going to want to see with me later on this hour. the dominant news story in our country and around the world is what happened in new zealand where new zealand is still reeling and i think much of the world is still reeling today after yesterday's shootings at two mosques in the city of christchurch.

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