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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  March 16, 2019 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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the white house responding to what is now a bipartisan rebuke on immigration. president trump saying he'll issue the first veto ever. all of this to break his own campaign promise that mexico would fund the wall. him signing that veto today. later we have this beat exclusive. a former fox news reporter talking to congress despite her nda with fox news. we're going to get into that and how that story led to michael cohen's crime during the 2016 election. but we begin tonight with official, detailed actual news about the mueller probe on a friday night. the probe is not over, despite many rumors that it would have been over weeks ago. actually instead, there are now two federal prosecutors in two different cases stating under oath that there are at least two
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maybe more active, quote, ongoing investigations that relate to or grow out of this mueller probe. first there is the trump aide turned convict turned star witness against paul manafort rick gates. he is still as of today speaking to bob mueller's investigators. now we know that tonight because of the new word that comes out here that gates continues to, quote, cooperate in several ongoing investigations. legal experts say that implies one of them would at least be the potential misconduct that has been alleged about the trump inaugural committee. the new york feds are investigating that. gates has talked to them tackling questions about the money trail and a lot of other foreign influence allegations. meanwhile, there is a mueller prosecutor saying michael cohen has also provided information for, this seems to be the theme tonight, quote, ongoing investigations. while all the investigators pursue the leads that have come out in part of the mueller case, democrats in congress pressing forward with their own crucial
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deadlines for multiple strands of the investigation. big questions on donald trump's private conversations with putin and why the united states president went to such unusual lengths to keep them secret not from the public, that might be normal, but from his own aides and national security staff. that's not all. monday, a separate deadline for 81 trump associates to fork over what some describe as a treasure trove of documents. you may have heard about some of the legal language around this. democrats are asking for information, but after you blow through a deadline that sets up in the normal course of things the predicate to start issuing subpoenas and say to the court, look, we tried to start nice. they wouldn't even send us a letter. all of this is designed to deal with things that by definition trumpers associates aren't forking over. either they have a good reason like privilege or they don't have a reason and they want to keep a secret. here is the context to all of this. the more you learn the reality
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around donald trump the less that he is able to sell a fantasy of the underlying reality. this is something that a person, a journalist who has been following trump for a long time told us is actually the key to donald trump's apparent success. >> he is an extraordinary grifter, salesman, and he sold himself. you know, we were astounded that he was able to sell all the things he sold, bad condos and vodka and everything else that he sold back in the day, and now he was able to sell a whole other set of fantasies to 46% of the american people. >> he was able to sell those things. the question is not just the original sale but the timeline. that vodka business that mr. andersen mentioned it was sort of like trump university, or you may remember trump airlines or trump steaks or many trump casinos in atlantic city and elsewhere. all of them went out of business because the thing that was being
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sold that wasn't real or in some cases was fraudulent, well, it didn't last. so if the details and the business matters and the campaign activities and the administration activities are exposed through the processes that i just mentioned, well, the question is how does that affect both the facts that americans care about and donald trump's ongoing salesmanship of the most important product, himself. i'm joined tonight with a very special panel right here in new york. nora shactman, ed, michelle goldberg, jacob weissberg. here in part because he was one of the first reporters who also was looking at the stormy daniels story during 2016. good to have all of you here. >> thank you, ari. >> the salesmanship and when it runs out. >> well, i think that's been the question from the beginning, right? you kind of waiting for that 46%, now it's more like 40%, to realize that the emperor has no clothes. to be honest, i'm not sure that it ever will, at least with the majority of that minority.
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>> the majority of the minority is still a minority, right? >> well, it's always been a minority. it was a minority that voted for him. he's never had majority approval, but, you know, there is enough of -- there is a majority of the republican party, which is enough to keep congress from -- republicans in congress from turning on him. the thing is donald trump's product right now is liberal tears. and it's like the first thing that he's ever sold that's legit, right? i mean, he really does make people who, you know, see his presidency as a desecration, he makes us suffer every day, and i feel like that is what a lot of his followers care about, more than they care about the wall, more than they care about infrastructure, that's what they love, you know? they love the fact that after a horrific massacre in new zealand in which the shooter talks about an invasion of immigrants, donald trump is not afraid a few hours later to go on television and use almost the exact same language, invasion, about our southern border, you know? any other president would have the decency to be cowed by the
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moment, but donald trump's indecency. >> or rise to the moment. >> right. but the fact that he will never give into the norms that govern liberals like me think of civilized life is what i think his followers love about him. so, you know, he's already talking about his supporters kind of mounting some sort of violent resistance in the effort that there is some attempt to dislodge him. so i'm not sure that that kind of, like, cult-like inner core ever really dissolves until something happens that kind of materially affects them. >> ari, the two most pointless things to speculate about are when will mueller issue his report and when will republicans turn on donald trump? the answers are when he's done and when it's in their interest to do so. but i think what we're seeing with the -- as the investigation continues to unfold, you know,
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trump is like -- remember pig pen from "peanuts?" he's always surrounded by a cloud of dirt wherever he goes. trump is like that. the crime and corruption are there in his business, they're there as we're finding out now around the inauguration. they're in every aspect of his presidency. it's everything he touches. and it's -- the weight of evidence will continue to get greater, but it's so overwhelming now that there is no excuse for saying, well, i'm waiting for a last little bit. he's going to have to get weak enough at some point that republicans start to bail on him. >> well, i think -- >> some day it will help. >> when you mentioned "pig pen," i thought you were going to reference the grateful dead donald trumper, but we'll ta-- . we're speaking on a day where the president of the united states was forced into vetoing something only because it passed both houses of congress with republican support. and to do it, talk about
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exposing a con with facts, to veto it, as we're going to discuss later in the show, it required him basically demonstrating that he is really committed to undermining his own campaign promise that mexico would pay for the wall, no matter what. so i would push back slightly -- i don't think i so much disagree with you as i'm elaborating on your point, but the republicans in the senate are going up against him on the domestic issue of immigration two years in. it does seem that facts, whether it's who pays for the wall or what's exposed in these probes in the long run does move the ball. >> some of them do care a little bit about parts of the constitution because they realize that one day there will be a democratic president, and the powers that trump is allowed to grab and keep will belong to future presidents who might not be mostly on their side. and give credit to the senate republicans who dissented on this issue. not enough of them to override the veto but some. it's the beginning of a crack in the wall, in you will.
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>> noah, i want to put that in the context of these looming deadlines which, again, relate to fact, you know, if you take the nilist position to the extreme, donald trump wouldn't have to fight so hard. i can do anything. the fifth avenue defense. the fifth avenue defense i would submit to you as a thesis appears to be utter nonsense because certainly if you could get away with that, i'm not even going to repeat it on air, you could get away with whatever terrible sundry cons are in the tax returns. it's precisely the opposite. the bluster hides the fact that there is a fear that 46%, one of the weakest -- weakest results that ever led to a presidency might drop to 45, 44, 43. before you know it, you're not going to be president again. >> yeah, it could be that. look, his supporters might continue to support him but that there is stuff in there that is so personally embarrassing to him, that even this man without shame could be shamed by it.
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now, look, traditionally what has he fought back hardest against? it's revealing how much money he has or doesn't have. i mean, ironically, right, this is a week where beto o'rourke got into the race. beto o'rourke is -- his family, his in-laws are actually centimillionaires. they aren't going to necessarily chip away at his support but they may chip away at his core myth. >> mixing in the politics here. we'll have plenty of time to get to 2020 in 2020, but, look, you're right that it's more traditional for candidates in both parties to play down inherited wealth, whether they bought their way into school or not. >> yeah. >> donald trump by all accounts has been inflating his wealth. i mean, literally -- >> yeah. >> like a new soundcloud rap who are is trying to pretend to have more money than he has. kanye famously said in one of
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his songs, the jet skis in the music video, i admit it, we rented them. donald trump in that sense is very kanye, i guess they are friends. >> an article where it said "rapper on gold-plated tank has inflated sense of ego." >> with that let's bring in someone who has the right sense of ego, who always claims not to look like robert redford, even though he is known as the washington bar's version of robert redford. john flannery, good to see you. in addition to those facts, special counsel to three different congressional investigations and we begin with you there. our panel will weigh in as well. for starters to you, what does it mean when you see the looming deadlines on the putin docs, the business associates in the judiciary committee? >> i'm very encouraged by it. it shows that the congress is doing its business. they'll get probably satisfaction from most of the requests they've made and then they'll have to pick and choose which ones they want to fight about, if they have to fight about it, and i think they might
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do better if they defined what their objective is rather than just saying it's oversight. by that i mean if they have to get into a court case, it would be more helpful to say it's in constant plagues of possible impeachment. the courts have made distinctions in grand juries and subpoena fights between whether or not there was a criminal case pending and whether it was a congressional subpoena. and in this case i think they need every advantage they can have, not withstanding what the speaker said. >> with the civil criminal distinction there on the end game over potential subpoenas, i wish you were in our double jeopardy segment earlier this week. we could try to get everyone to change the channel. i'm kidding, john. i feel like we're in law school. that brings us to my next question for you, which is you're into the weeds that i think a lot of people are now interested in, right? >> i think so. >> what does it mean when they defy the subpoenas if they get them? who is going to enforce that. the inner branch thing of nadler
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going to the courts saying back me up and pelosi needing to be on board with that. i need you to speak to that and something on the screen, abbe lowell, very smart and talented lawyer, also at times controversial in the mueller case. he says "i don't know of a special counsel who has done it better." do you re -- view that as optimism, at least about his client and the president? >> there have been a lot of lawyers and targets of investigations over the years that have complimented a prosecutor just before they end up on the wrong end of a subpoena or an indictment. so as to the other question -- >> yeah. >> you know, people are gathering into the coliseum, if you will, to see what's going to happen. this will go on long enough that everybody's going to understand the details, but the underlying thing they're going to be asking is, why are they holding it back? why don't we know what the conversation was with putin? why don't we know what happened up in new york at 666 fifth avenue? what don't we know about the finances and family involvement in the inauguration?
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those questions they all understand. a lot of times we've been hearing other pundits say it's -- these are all process offenses. lying to congress, lying to a grand jury, lying on statements about connections overseas and here, so i think that the underlying story within the process, which is less complicated to those of us who think of ourselves as lawyers first, is that the story's right there. >> right. >> the story's a terrible story of a corrupt regime. >> as you say, debt, money and the desperate moves people will make. you mentioned the property that kushner owes so much money and debt on, 666 fifth avenue. michelle goldberg, this has come up before. as some people know, this is something they sublet originally from the devil, the dark lord, again with the movie stuff. if it were a movie and owed all this money on 666, it would be ridiculous. walk us through this. >> way too on the nose. to be honest, i don't have the details at my fingertips about
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the kind of corrupt deal that has bailed them out of this situation. i mean, jared kushner -- >> i'll just say briefly one of the issues was is someone working for the white house activity seeking foreign investment that could make or break his business. >> this was jared kushner's big real estate deal and like many of the things he's done, a disaster. he bought this building at the very top of the market. they soon got way underwater. there was kind of a lot of speculation about what this was going to mean for the family fortune and the family real estate company. meanwhile, you see jared kushner having all of these kind of clandestine meetings with foreign leaders and their sovereign wealth funds. most recently you had a business -- another company bail them out and the biggest -- i believe the biggest investor in the company that bailed them out is qatar. and so there is a sort of question of, well, how much was our middle east policy really about rescuing -- how much was it about kind of american interests versus about rescuing
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jared kushner's perilous real estate deal? so, you know, the very fact that you have to ask those questions, not just about this, but about almost every sort of foreign move this administration makes, goes to both how disreputable these guys are and almost how opaque that we don't know what our government's doing. >> that is a reminder for people watching. okay, why are we talking about all this now? it's only three months into divided government. these deadlines are hitting now because they had to give them a few weeks to respond. i'm going to fit in a break. michelle goldberg and john flannery, thank you. jacob weissberg, stay with me, i think. noah shactman you're here later. coming up, donald trump issuing his veto so he can break his campaign promise. later, the fallout from exclusive reporting on this show on the reporter who is going to tell congress about how fox news allegedly spiked her story on trump hush money during the campaign. and then rare insights from an sdny witness regarding trump
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campaign finance violations. a breakdown later of the so-called -- i didn't make it up, this is a real thing, the gather brooks defense for rudy giuliani's associate. as i mentioned, the hip-hop icon, jeur, the damager. you're watching the beat on msnbc. you're watching the beat on msnbc. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix. you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in... behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life- threatening allergic and skin reactions.
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jeru the damaja. president trump just used the first veto of his entire
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presidency today to do something, and this is a fact, to do something totally illogical, to break his most famous campaign promise. donald trump vetoing the resolution that would have blocked his claim for an emergency to seize your money, american money to build the border wall. he was forced to do this with opposition, as we've mentioned, from republicans. the veto coming weeks after donald trump actually created the long government shutdown in american history which was, again, done to break his promise that you wouldn't have to pay for the border wall because mexico will pay for it. i can't say this enough. this is remarkable and ridiculous. donald trump going to these lengths to do something that politicians rarely try to do, which is first break a campaign promise and then draw attention to it. remember, this is a candidate who told everyone one major thing about this wall, you wouldn't have to pay for it and mexico would. >> believe me, mexico's paying for the wall, okay? that's it. >> this is a wall that's going to work.
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make mexico will pay for it. >> mexico, in some form, and there are many different forms, will reimburse us. >> one way or the other, mexico is going to pay for the mexico. >> mexico, sean, is going to pay for the wall. >> mexico. >> mexico. >> mexico. >> mexico is going to pay for the wall. >> what does it mean that the president of the united states has gone to these lengths, his first veto against his own party, to drastically break and promote the breakage of that now defunct promise? >> well, what it means is he's sticking to his -- the theory of politics that got him elected president, he thinks, which is to endlessly feed the passions of his base. that's simple and actually rather obvious explanation for what he's doing, but he's doing it in a political situation where ea where even though republicans are for the most part sticking
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with him, both in washington and around the country, there is slippage around the edges there, certainly on the wall itself and the lengths he's going to to get done. >> how does it help his base to draw attention to the fact that he's basically forcing americans to fund this thing? i mean, the -- it's one thing to sell something that people may or may not want. it's another to say someone else will pay for it. open to another round if someone else is paying for it. then a separate discussion, should i have another round. let me show you, here he was talking about the form in which the payment would come and the pesos, take a look. >> when during the campaign i would say "mexico's going to pay for it," obviously i never said this and i never meant they're going to write out a check. >> they'll pay. in one form or another. they may even write us a check. >> howard? >> well, the problem here politically in opposing trump is, i mean, i'm hearing a lot of
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commentary on this, but i'm not hearing, for example, democratic presidential candidates, for the most part, or in a sense democrats in general talking -- they don't have much political leverage because they're against the wall altogether. how it's going to be paid for and trump's lies about that are just another in a long litany of his lies going back to the beginning of the campaign. >> i mean, they may feel, howard, that he's so sufficiently and completely and publicly owned himself they don't have much to add on this particular but. >> but if they're not in the discussion about whether we should build a wall at all. they're all again the idea of building a wall. the mechanics of the funding are interesting, and, yes, it shows what a fantasist and a liar the president is, but everybody already knows that. so i don't think it's necessarily the salient political point here. more important, i think -- >> legally, i don't think you could be more wrong. i mean, he went around -- i was
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at the rallies and he said mexico will pay for it. >> i was at the rallies, too. i was at the rallies, too. >> that was his thing. i'm telling you, the people there, as you saw, they were excited by that point. in other words, it wasn't just border security, it was i'm going to dominate the world as a dominant actor representing america and make other people pay for things on trade, on the wall, on immigration. you get the final word. >> well, all i'm saying is that virtually every democrat in the majority -- now close to the majority of the country it if not a straight out majority of the country doesn't want the wall built at all and never have, really. >> howard fineman, always like chopping it up with you on a friday. thanks for being here. >> thank you. turning next to a "beat" exclusive and why fox news could be on the losing end of this particular scoop when we're back in 30 seconds. seconds.than ever struggle with debt. intuit is here to change this story...
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with giant solutions like turbotax, quickbooks and mint that give everyone the power to prosper. intuit. proud makers of turbotax, quickbooks and mint. the news tonight, a former fox news reporter is ready to tell congress about the network's role in allegations that it tried to bury a story that links donald trump and stormy daniels during the campaign. now, we broke this exclusive last night on "the beat." today you can see it's making many other headlines. the house oversight committee telling us exclusively last night they would request documents related to, quote, extramarital affairs and payments by trump and any, quote, potential campaign finance violation as well as an appearance, this is all brand-new, for a transcribed interview with that ex-reporter.
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this request went to fox news reporter diana falzone and her attorney. and is now asking one simple thing. let her out of the nda to speak about it. falzone's lawyer telling us the client will comply with congress' request and it itself overrides fox news' nda. >> do you view this, even before it ever gets to a subpoena level, this request itself as something that you can comply with, regardless of fox news asking for your client's silence? >> yes. anybody out there, anybody in your audience who has an nda must know that the law requires that you be allowed to participate in any government investigation and no nda can stop that. >> joining me now is "new york times" investigative reporter meggy touhy who has been all over these stories and forter "slate" editor-in-chief jacob
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weisberg who had the stormi daniels details before basically anybody. as a reporter, would you be interested in hearing what the rest of this ex-fox news reporter has to say or should she stay locked up under this nda? >> well, first of all, i don't think we need congressional hearings to prove that fox news is a propaganda network and state television. >> that's your opinion, jacob. >> i think they would have suppressed the stormy daniels story, but i seriously doubt they had it in a useable form and i think i know that because i was pursuing the story and i remember stormy daniels mentioning to me that diane falzone was one of the other reporters she was talking to, but she decided to take the money from trump instead of going public. and at that point it was clear, not only was she not going to participate in the story, she was going to deny it. her lawyer was going to deny it. at least for me reporting on it, the evidence without her backing it up, with her denying it
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wasn't sufficient. so i think fox's motives can be terrible but diane falzone still likely did not have it in a journalistically defensible form. >> both things could be true. there could be undue pressure or motivations and there also could be a story that was not in the position to run and a story as you say all the nating between talking to reporters and then taking money to not talk to reporters. i want to get a little bit more of the reporting and then megan have you respond. falzone's lawyer also makes the point that fox, who we reached out for comment, as i say every time we report this story, they deny this was about anything other than the story not being in reportable fashion. many others point out that's what other journalists including yourself in that period ultimately determined. but this lawyer is telling us that that denial itself is misleading. that the person at fox had -- a former employee who makes this denial is wrong. take a look. >> we think that we were will able to show that ken mccord is
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a liar. >> do you have material about him specifically if you're making that allegation? >> for one thing, he didn't stop the story, and that's going to be evident. >> you're saying that whole narrative that he wrote, that he was the one personally intervening himself, he wasn't even involved in overseeing that story? >> yes. >> was it someone more senior than him? >> yes. >> was it someone famous? >> well, we'll let congress decide whether or not to hold a hearing in public. >> so i think it's interesting to juxtapose the claim that murdoch owned fox had an interest in even executed suppressing this damaging story about trump in 2016. while also recognizing on the other hand that it was fox-owned "wall street journal" that actually broke the story of one of the -- of the other catch and kill operation that happened during 2016 before the election. "the wall street journal" were the first people to report that
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karen mcdougal has been silenced through a catch and kill operation through the "national enquirer." "the wall street journal" actually led much of the reporting on the efforts to silence these two women who had these damaging stories about trump. >> which means what? >> well, i just think it raises questions. if you're going to say on the one hand -- if there is a claim that murdoch-owned fox was sort of working to silence the story -- >> the rebuttal to that is, as sean hannity and roger ailes, who was important running fox at the time, who went on to literally advise donald trump on the debates, that part of the company seems to have more political sway than "the journal." i think that's an interesting argument that you raise but i don't think it's that helpful. it reminds us the difference between sean hannity and "the wall street journal." >> it depends on -- it will be interesting to see who they're going to point the finger at when she actually shares her information with congress. >> i would argue -- let me push you a little more since we're all journalists pushing each other. they're pointing the finger at
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ken mccord. they're saying there is a false cover story. >> how high does it go? >> can you prove it? >> the fox story suggested it might go as high as murdoch. that's why i make the connection of murdoch to "the wall street journal" which did the groundbreaking reporting on this issue. >> i guess this segment is about fox news not "the wall street journal." >> okay. well i think that there is -- it's also about the efforts of this former fox reporter to basically break her silence and come forward with more information. >> i mean, my view, jacob, either they have it or they don't, right? if they can't prove this and just making wild allegations, it kind of goes away. if they can go to congress and prove at a high level fox, not "the journal," was doing something wrong that led to michael cohen's now confessed crime, that could be a story. >> well, everybody wants to simplify the story about fox and murdoch and say they're in trump's camp, but it's much more complicated than that. in my opinion, a
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journalistically dishonest organization that nonetheless employs honest journalists. megan's question about "the journal" owned by murdoch is an honest journalistic organization that has maintained that -- murdochs' motives are mixed. fox's business is complicated. you get hannity doing nothing reassembling journalism, chris wallace and bret baier and other people there doing journalism. so it's a complicated picture. >> let's go back to the comparison of fox having elements of this story in 2016 before the presidential election. "slate" having many of the same elements of this story at the exact same time. and neither of them published the story. >> again, i hate to be a lawyer about it, but that distinction doesn't take you very far because "slate" is not being credibly accused with an nda hanging over an employee of e-mails, facts and evidence that
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would put forward the wrong reason. so, you know, everyone goes to work in the morning. if one person goes to work and is accused of committing a crime and another person didn't, i don't think "slate" helps that much. you're here because you were in the middle of it. >> i've moved on to the podcasting business. >> over time. final thought. >> i think you also have to recognize anybody who has worked on stories in which women have been silenced by secret settlements or ndas. know that the moment your subject has been silenced, it is really hard to get to publication with them. >> right. i think that's a fair point that goes to why there is a larger context. we'll see and we've been pressing for the details whether they have the evidence to prove misconduct. if not, it's one more story that didn't go to press. thanks to both of you for being here. coming up, a rare look inside the sdny probe from a witness who actually, as we've been discussing, repped both of the people you see there involving trump ndas. later, jeru the damaja is here with "the daily beast" noah shack lynn. east" noah shack lynn your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms,
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. and we're back with a rare look inside these new york investigations involving donald trump. the sdny in new york has been something that trump allies say could be even worse than mueller. now we're hearing directly for the first time from a witness who is involved in the sdny probe. you may have heard of him, keith davidson represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. we were discussing how extensive his communication has been with the sdny investigators. >> about 1,500 pages of non-attorney client privilege material that i gave to sdny upon their request, and i will make that available to the house judiciary committee. i sat down with the sdny prosecutors, who are about the most competent attorneys i've ever met, and for a time period of three separate meetings, about 20 hours in total. >> 20 hours, 1,500 pages of material. that's a key piece of information from, again, a witness in the probe that was
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his first time on msnbc since he spoke to them. now, davidson is a key figure because he negotiated both of those ndas, i mentioned, and alo we don't know at this point who else is talking. we do know that michael cohen is cooperating after being indicted. he told congress his last interaction with trump is under investigation by the very same sdny. i asked mr. davidson about that. >> do you get the impression that the prosecutors at sdny are looking at wrongdoing or potential crimes by donald trump himself? >> you know, i don't know any of that firsthand. it's clear that this -- that there is -- they're alleging a conspiracy, and that there is unnamed coconspirators. >> i'm joined now by maya wiley, who was a civil prosecutor in, yes, the sdny. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> mr. davidson, like many fact witnesses, does not come to the table unblemished or with 100%
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credibility. yet as an attorney wrapped up in all of this there is a lot of pressure on him to get it right, not wrong. what did you think of he revealed? >> what i think he revealed is exactly what i would have expected of the southern district of new york, which is to say they are doing the work. they are going to get everything they can no matter what anyone thinks of the credibility of the witness because the point is you want to know everything that's out there. so if you're getting 1,500 pages of documents, that's because you want to know everything that's out there. if you have someone who has direct information about something you're looking at, you want to know everything they're going to say about it. but also remember, they've got michael cohen who is being attacked on credibility publicly, and so whether or not there is corroborating evidence for any of the things he's telling them, they're going to look to people like keith davidson to get. >> when you see what keith outlined, i want to play one more thing he told us here, again, in his first interview which is, look, the sdny, they
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don't play around. i think people have started to hear about that and what it means when they get cooperation. take a look. >> i don't think that the federal government, the department of justice or the sdny gives anything away for free. i know that, you know, they did give at least mr. pecker and howard immunity agreements and non-prosecution agreements, and shortly after that, it's my understanding that mr. cohen did change his plea to guilty. so i think you put two and two together, but that's above my pay grade. >> so how are we to understand that part of the investigation? because cohen's given up what he has. mr. pecker and these africa davidson, cohen, enquirer.
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>> it's important not to speculate, but i think what we do know is that any time a federal prosecutor is investigating anything, it often leads to additional charges. in other words, you start -- it's like pulling that thread and stuff starts to unravel. and that's because the more information you find, the more people you find, then the more potential both people who may be coconspirators. so that is a possibility certainly. it also could be ensuring that, you know, everything you need to know about who are your witnesses or are your targets. we don't know until we know. but i think what's important to say here is the southern district of new york is going to remain extremely aggressive in the pursuit of facts and evidence, and they will go after anyone they think has committed a crime with the exception of indicting a sitting president. >> so who does that leave in this investigation? i mean, that's what i wondered
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because at the end of the day if cohen's election crime was done by cohen without enough people involved, that could be the end of the road on that. >> i mean, are you suggesting, you know, whether any families who maybe run parts of the trump organization may have had knowledge of any potential crimes that involved campaign finance laws? >> that's what i'm asking. i just ask the questions. >> i was just trying to understand your question. >> maya wiley, intelligent, careful but leaving us with a sense of where things may be headed within that care. thank you. >> thank you. it is friday. and that means we have something you might not want to miss. i'm very excited to say that the hip-hop legend jeru the damaja is here along with the editor-in-chief of "the daily beast." e daily beast. you should be mad at airports. excuse me, where is gate 87? you should be mad at non-seasoned travelers. and they took my toothpaste away. and you should be mad at people who take unnecessary risks. how dare you, he's my emotional support snake. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, whose tech helps you understand
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it's friday on "the beat" and you know what that means. it's time to fall back. i'm joined today by jeru the damaja. rapper known for his collaborations with dj premier, including the critically acclaimed album "the sun rises in the east." jeru's top singles have drawn 10 million streams on spotify. lives in berlin now and uses the series to look at geography and history around the world. we're also joined by daily beast editor-in-chief noah shactman. he oversees coverage of the mueller probe, the trump administration and a lot of other international news. he's worked and written for
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"foreign policy" magazine and "wired" magazine. great to have you here. >> great to be here. >> jeru, who needs to fall back? >> a lot of people need to fall back, but i'm going to say aunt becky, lori loughlin, she needs to fall back because this whole college admissions scandal thing, not only is it illegal, not only is it cheating, but it reinforces the idea that the wealthy don't have to play by the same rules that everybody else plays by. and then not only that, i'm concerned the impact it's going to have on the children because -- i'm not talking about being embarrassed. because that's going to happen in life, right? i'm not talking about the attention because we live in a culture where attention is the new currency. but what i'm talking about is the self-esteem because they actually told their children they're not good enough. right? they told them they're not able to compete. because if they had faith in them they could compete -- it's not their ego i'm worried about, it's about that's the future.
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so you have a bunch of rich kids with low self-esteem, a hyperinflated sense of entitlement, what is the world going to be? >> but are you worried about the rich kids? i'm worried about the kids that didn't get in, the rich kids took their spot. >> i'm not worried about the rich kids. what kind of world is it going to be with those kids running it? >> you're saying theis is symptomatic of a wider culture. the kids directly in this controversy and they are a statistical sample of some wealthy, some wannabe wealthy, some striving, but the idea it's not good enough to go to the college you could just get into or get the job you normally get. >> i went to georgetown and that's the site of one of these cheating scandals. i have a message for someone who can end this, patrick ewing, it is up to you, man. you need to address this full-on. if you address this full-on, georgetown administration will listen like they will listen to
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nobody else. >> noah, how much did it cost you to buy your seat at georgetown? >> good question. excellent question. $1 million. >> who else is on your list to fall back? >> on my list to fall back, you guys know about goop? >> sure. gwyneth paltrow. >> the gwyneth paltrow pseudo science conspiracy pedaling steam your genitals operation. well, she was at south by southwest the other day and she was asked, why, why are you pedaling all this nonsense? and her response was, oh, i thought it was a blog. i didn't realize i had to give accurate information. which is, like, i'm sorry, yeah as a journalist i'm going to be particularly angry about that message, but come on, to anybody, i didn't know i had to put out accurate information so i put out some nonsense is just crazy. >> jeru, goop is just annoying. >> what i want to know is, what
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is goop really about? >> it's really about -- >> selling really fancy stuff to people who have spare timy moe money. >> you know, in a way it's the same thing. >> you worried about the rich kids? >> jeru, what you're talking about is trying to sell people self-esteem, value, status, and they're trying to buy that. >> it's all the same thing. and, you know, i actually should retract the statement that i made earlier because that's the world that we live in today, right? a bunch of spoiled rich kids with a hyperinflated sense of entitlement who buy their way into things and they run the world. it's life, but i think we can make it better. >> my fall back for the week could also be for the decade or the century. >> okay. >> wow, the fallback of the century, huh? >> the mother of all fallbacks in honor of our guest. all that big gun talk needs to fall back. i'm quoting you, jeru, because back in the '90s when gangster rap was popular, in our music and culture, obviously in our
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policies, the obsession with guns is a problem. >> it is a problem, and i think, you know, it's only a problem -- put it this way, it's only a problem when it's in certain hands, you understand what i'm saying? that's how they make it, the nra and all these other organizations. they don't want me to have guns, but they want to have guns, and i know it's supposed to be one of your amendment rights or whatever. i don't know which one because i'm not into that kind of stuff, right? to bear arms and all that. a bunch of people with guns are going to want to use them. >> right. >> and that's the scary part about it. because -- and then not only that, but look at the people who have guns and the things that they're talking about. it's racist rhetoric. it's anti-government. but i think it's just dangerous individuals who want to play by their own rules. i think everything we're talking about is that, people who want to play by their own rules. >> well, we wanted to get that in, especially because people
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have ideas about hip-hop or music. you were someone pushing up against that at the time and i'm a big fan. i appreciate you coming on "the beat." >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> jeru and noah. and we will be right back. ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. in so many ways. which cage free eggs taste fresher and more delicious? only eggland's best. which organic eggs have more vitamins and less saturated fat? only eggland's best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs.
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through it all. (male vo) welcome to the all-new 2019 subaru forester. the longest-lasting, most trusted forester ever. before we go, we wanted to bring you one more story that is true but hard to believe. rudy giuliani is now in hot water for a private e-mail his associate sent to michael cohen add a pivotal time, the period right after the feds raided cohen's office and trump folks were worried cohen might flip. giuliani's associate telling cohen he was in touch with giuliani and could affirm everything was going to be okay. "sleep well tonight," he wrote
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because cohen had, quote, friends in high places. critics say it sounds like more evidence trump was trying to get people not to cooperate with the feds, maybe even hinting at friends in high places. robert cost low, the line "sleep well tonight you have friends in high places" was a tongue in cheek reference to a gather brooks song. adding he was worried that cohen was, quote, suicidal. team trump's problem here is that garth's song makes the opposite point. it is about low places. ♪ 'cause i got friends in low places ♪ ♪ where the whisky drowns and the beer chases my blues away ♪ >> now, for all the garth fans out there, we ask you, would that song comfort michael cohen or does this sound like a made up giuliani defense? and before we go, there is one country line that might apply more to cooperating witnesses,
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maybe you know it. "i had to have this talk with you. my happiness depends on you. and whatever you decide to ♪ ♪ my mother called and says, "michelle's dead." how is that possible? >> a young mother found brutally murdered. her little girl left to wander in her mother's blood. police had a suspect and they say he had a motive. >> we had an intimate relationship. >> we ended up having sex. >> but could they prove he was the killer? >> it was a circumstantial case. >> except for that witness. the girl who left those footprints. >> we will never know what cassidy saw and what she didn't see.

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