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tv   Up With David Gura  MSNBC  March 17, 2019 5:00am-7:01am PDT

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sy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. that will do it for me this hour on "weekends with alex witt." now it's time for "up with david gura." >> up on a sunday morning, i'm david gura. there is a long-running joke about vice president joe biden's propensity for gaffes. is that what happened last night? >> i have the most progressive record for anybody running for the united states -- anybody who would run. >> is that a slip of the tongue? his supporters continue to ask, what is the hold up? plus senator kirsten
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gillibrand announces, introducing herself as -- >> someone who isn't afraid of progress. that's wooim wooi ihy i'm runni president. >> and jeb bush says he wants america republicans to have another option. >> i think someone should run just because americans should be given a choice. >> it's march 17th. happy st. patrick's day. >> and now a st. patrick's day safety message from ice t. >> don't puke in the [ bleep ]. >> good message. katie phan, and executive director of the civil rights group color of change. let me start with the campaign. with more than a dozen democrats vying for the party's nomination, there continues to be interest in and speculation surrounding joe biden's plans.
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he has been on the speaking circuit. last night the former vice president was in dover, delaware, delivering a keynote address when made that remark about running. let's play it again in full. >> i have the most progressive record for anybody running for the united -- anybody who would run. [ cheers and applause ] anybody who would run. >> he has teased an official announcement before but this is the closest he has gotten to saying he would run for president. the national firefighters association, he told them to save their enthusiasm for a couple of weeks. senator gillibrand making her candidacy official about an hour ago. >> we need a leader who makes big, bold, brave choices. >> someone who isn't afraid of progress. >> that's why i'm running for president. >> that's what's happening with
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democrats ahead of 2020 with an incumbent president. but that may be starting to change. jeb bush, who ran against donald trump in 2016, is encouraging other republicans to run against the president of the united states. >> i think someone should run just because republicans ought to be given a choice. to have a conversation about what it is to be a conservative, i think, is important. >> in a recent poll from marist, 44% of republicans said they would like to see a challenger. bill weld has convened an exploratory committee and hiring a high-profile strategist to lead the 2020 charge. joining us in this discussion, jeremy peters, political reporter for "the new york
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time times", who focuses on republican party politics. that, i should say, is the subject of the book he's writing right now. you followed joe biden's career for a while now. what do you make of this, the long tease, speaking before big crowds. you saw folks standing up, "run, joe, run," after he made that gaffe, addvertent or inadvertent. >> no big rush for him to get in because he is joe biden but it has struck me how much he's playing out this public agonizing over it. given that there are at least 12 other people in the race who really want this, for joe biden to be like -- >> if it's not a good look, it's a strange look, right? >> yeah. and democrats want somebody in this race who really, really wants it, who is really
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passionate. he's clearly wearing on his sleeve that there's a lot of things he doesn't like about getting in, exposing his family to scrutiny, his past to scrutiny. he has had a very long past in politics. he has run twice before, failed miserably. it's odd to me he's playing out the agonizing so publicly. >> what do you make of not that part of what he has to say but the other part of the cli clip, calling himself the most progressive candidate out there? >> it was actually the thing that i heard. i was surprised he would open himself up that way. his history is so long. there are a lot of things people think when they think about joe biden getting into the race. the most progressive candidate that includes a field with elizabeth warren and bernie sanders doesn't really stack up from like his anita hill to some of the economic policies to the history he has had around
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desegregation, schools. yes, he has progressed and changed over time but joe biden has not been a politician that's been profile of courage. he has not been the catalyst that's pushed the needle. i think what it does show once again with a lot of these labels is that it's really important that we hold people to a high standard, whether they call themselves a progressive prosecutor, a progressive member of the senate or congress. what that actually means cannot just be about whether or not you treat people nicely. it actually has to land on the policies that you advance and what you're willing to fight for and who you're willing to hold accountable. >> what about him as an avatar? we didn't get a whole lot of policy specifics from president biden last night. he said we're living in the battle for the soul of america. it's time to get up, get off our backs. remember the hell who we are. how important is that, to have
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that fighting spirit? ka t call it what you will. >> as an old, white man. >> is that your label? >> i can't hide it. it's not prematurely gray. he's an old white man. the problem i have with,000 is playing out, playing hard is hard for someone as his age and stature. we had a pretty amazing field of women, people of color, lgbtq. it is time for us old white men to give it up because we have screwed this country up. to go back to -- joe is a nice guy. i have no problem with joe biden. it is time for a new generation, new voices, time for people who haven't been heard, time for people who haven't messed up this country. >> i mentioned kirsten gillibrand running, showed some
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of her video as well. when you look at the new york delegation, nobody has endorsed kirsten gillibrand's candidacy for president. what do you make that have, and the lack of support thus far? >> couple of things, david. first of all, she does not have the best relationship with the clintons and whatever you think of hillary, her performance, bill and his history, they still have a lot of sway within the democratic party. kirsten gillibrand got on the wrong side of the clinton family when she talked about bill clinton and whether or not he should have stepped down from office. given his history with women, she said, yes, he should have. people thought that went too far. along the same lines, she has a lot of resentment in the democr democratic caucus around the senate and around washington because of how she pushed al franken out. she led the charge to get rid of him after allegations of
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improper conduct around women in service with senator franken. and people again -- a lot of people thought that was a step tour too far. this was when the me too movement reacted a little bit too severely. i think she has made some decisions over the last year, year and a half in her career that have put her at odds with the democrats. does that affect her nationally? it's going to hurt with fund-raising certainly. as we know, you need money to get very far in politics these days and she doesn't really have that national name recognition that can help her overcome that deficit. so, you know, it's going to be a challenge for her. >> i'm fascinated by this jeb bush story, about there being a republican party. i'm going to return to our floridian here at the table. >> dubious honor i have once in a while. >> help us with the role that jeb bush plays. how is he settling this? bill weld was eager to get into the race, larry hogan who has
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been groomed by some members of the republican party as the guy who could go up against president trump. how important were those comments made? >> a lot of us, when we were looking at the race and saw the breadth of democratic candidates that should have listened better before people got on the trump train. now peop you remember jeb had the jeb!? >> yes. >> now people want joe to have the joe! so to have somebody come out and say there should be a challenger to donald trump who is an incumbent, not dog catcher of the town, which some people think donald trump is best suited for that, but the president of the united states as an incumbent has a republican who is well respected, somebody who, putting aside the fact that he's from florida, somebody who has had views that have been
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typically reflective of what the republican party has traditionally been. someone like that saying he needs a challenger makes sense because write now we don't have anybody that we're looking at as being a front-runner in the republican party. >> governor of maryland in this second term, jeb bush spoke at the second inauguration in annapolis after he won that second term. why is he the favorite of establishmentmentarians? >> i think he's the only one out there who is elected, he's in office, running a blue state right now as a republican, who is talking or at least suggesting that he might run against trump. i think the media is taking it more seriously than larry hogan himself, from what i've heard. >> touche. >> it does raise the question about the next generation of republicans. trump is in his 70s.
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in 2016, you had a group of republicans, senators, governors, who were in their 40s. by the time 2024 rolls around, nikki haley, marco rubio, ted cruz will be perfectly positioned to run for president again and this pause button that trump hit, he has changed the policy in tone, ideology, what they're willing to accept from its leaders, what type of conduct and behavior. i think you are still going to see trump as really as one of his campaign advisers said to me last week who hit the mega
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millions, right? elected by 77,000 votes in three states in the electoral college and still managed to lose the popular vote by 3.5 million. is trump a fluke? i wouldn't exactly say that but i don't know what his imprint is on the party long term. >> beth, i'm going to go to you lastly on the notion of the party having power here. larry hogan might want this. you look at the rnc. from all they have seen, they've been very versed to this. >> the rnc will be owned by the incumbent president. no surprise there that they would stick with him. the bigger issue, though, is that by trump running in 2016 -- yes, it was flukey, but it was sumarily rejecting traditional politics, the sort of tax cuts for risk, cutting social welfare programs, medicare, medicaid. trump, as a candidate, rejected all of that. that was a republicanism of the bush family, john mccain, the
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republicanism of basically going back to reagan. it was summarily rejected by trump. he has talked about cutting medicare. that's in his budget. he has made health care worse, not better. he didn't fulfill promises to the republican voters who said they didn't want old-style, traditional conservatism. they wanted what he to offer. he's not giving them that right now. so there is room for conversation. >> thank you, jeremy peters, for joining us. >> thank you. >> on a program note, we'll talk with kirsten gillibrand, she'll host a town hall with my colleague, chris hayes. the death toll continues to rise in new zealand. we'll go live to christchurch. under pressure to explain their response to the terrorist attack
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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. new zealand's prime minister will meet with her cabinet in a few hours to discuss her country's changes to gun laws after those two shootings on the mosque. 50 men, women and children lost their lives and several dozen remain hospitalized. for an update now, i want to go to my colleague miguel almaguer,
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who is in christchurch. what has he said about the investigation and what's going to happen here in the coming days? >> reporter: their suspect 28-year-old, they're interested in asking him for questions. he appeared in court. his face was pixelated per law here in new zealand. they've retrieved the suspect's manifesto as vigils, like the one behind me, continue to grow across this country. the death toll has risen to 50. police found another body buried under some of the other victims as they were going through both of the crime scenes, two different mosques three miles apart from one another. many people here have been shattered by the news. of course, they're waiting to hear more about the survivors. some of the victims that remain hospitalized are as young as 2 years old. the oldest, in his 60s. we also note two people remain in critical condition. they are still fighting for
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their lives. investigators say they have much further to go on this case as the suspect is suspected in court later this month. back to you. >> miguel, we also heard from the prime minister of the country, who has spoken several times since this took place on friday. she has not been shy about talking about how there need to be policy changes in the country. what's she proposing? >> she is asking for stricter gun laws and said she'll meet with policymakers later on today. it is early monday morning here in christchurch. she will meet with lawmakers later today to discuss policy. she has not given many specifics but that is on the agenda in the coming days as well, david. >> thank you for the reporting, from christchurch, new zealand. gun control, gun policy and social media, as well. beth, let me start with you. we have had a woeful amount of
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mass shootings in this country. there's lip service paid to changes in gun policy and little has happened. this has been in stark contrast to what we see here in the u.s. what can whoa learn? what are you watching when you look at it in concert, what's happening in new zealand versus what's happening in the u.s. >> i'm looking at whether this young people will take charge. climate change and enacting stronger gun laws. there's been an article of faith that you can't fight the nra, that gun laws are what they are in this country. they're only going to get looser. they're not going to get tighter. we sort of believed that for a long time. we're hearing from young folks coming up, a very large cohort, if they step up and vote, who feel differently about gun control. they've enacted stronger gun laws in a lot of states primarily because young people
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have been driving that conversation. it's probably going to take a while but we're hearing that voice strongly now. >> you look at how this has been covered. miguel mentioned the fact that the image has been blurred of the suspect because that's the law in new zealand. what beth is describing, not many people are using this alleged shooter's name. it's being talked about, covered differently. do you draw that line and see that as being germane as to what's happening in new zealand or is there a wider cultural change? >> it's also deeply related to race. when terror suspects have been muslim, arab, black, immigrans,s of color, there's side-by-side comparisons you can put from like the daily mirror how they expose and talk about it. we've seen this across the country in local communities,
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when there's local offenders. we see the mug shots of a young black person being used in the football picture of the young white suspect being used. and so i don't think -- i think this is about sort of the need to make money, often times, in the media. how do we leverage and angle -- of course, there's journalism underneath it all, but the headlines and the front page of the papers and the algorithms that incentivize the type of gross and obnoxious, sharing of information, attacks, all of that is incentivized by algorithms in the marketplace. until that is disrupted and we have greater oversight in regulation over the way the internet and internet platforms have been allowed to, you know, skirt all sorts of regulations that news agencies have and be treated like news, we're going to continue to have these
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problems of choices being made, not about the honest pursuit of the truth but selling. >> variation on that, i mentioned social media being under scrutiny here, prime minister of new zealand saying she received condolences of sheryl sandberg, saying they've remo removed the attack that's been posted worldwide. how inept have these companies proven to be, what's happened in real time as this gross deed was live streamed around the world and ain the aftermath as well? >> as soon as the police contacted them, they took down that video but there was enough time it got copied and 1.5 million copied tried to get online. which they shut down. i don't think the platforms are media. there were voices that were never heard, never represented in main street media that can
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finally be heard. and live video and you should have seen this coming. yes but it also enabled diamond reynolds to show the world what was happening to her partner when he was shot by police. it gave her a power that wouldn't have existed in old media. we have to look at the balances here. yes, there are maligned actors who use this in bad ways. we throw out those tools and potentially throw out the power it gives people. >> no one is talking about throwing out the rule -- tools but having rules of the road. right after they did that in conversation with law enforcement, she ended up dead without the live stream happening. facebook -- i've been in deep back and forth from everyone with sheryl sandberg on down. they hired definers to attack my
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organization and others. as we've pushed them on their support of the rnc convention with the rise of donald trump, they told us directly that they were media and had to be at both conventions in order to serve equal time. google told that as well. they go to congress to avoid any type of regulation that old media has, and then they can set the rouls on the winners and the losers of what type of information we get. how information gets to us, what's real news and not news. we have to update our vision about how we get information and who is making decisions about what is information and what's correct and what's not. >> we'll leave it there and come back in a moment as uk looks to leave the eu within a matter of days. what happened to compromise and good governance? compromise and good governance? too long. ♪
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it's a very complex thing right now. it's tearing the country apart. it's tearing a lot of countries apart. it's a shame it has to be that way. >> president trump defining in
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his own way what brexit is. the deadline is less than two weeks away. prime minister theresa may is giving members of parliament until thursday to strike a new deal or risk what she calls collective political failure. thursday, lawmakers voted in favor of a measure to delay the uk's departure from the european union, now has to get the approval of the 27 other members of the eu to extend that deadline up to three months. as "the new york times" puts it, what sort of delay would be granted and what would it accomplish? based in london, joins us here in new york. it's sunday morning. papers are on the table. do you go with the observer or telegraph? >> telegraph. >> theresa may writes addressing parliament last week, a greater clarity emerged as the choices we faces a country. what became clear? >> it's not that complicated. this is an independence movement. i'll describe it in a way that everybody here can understand. otherwise unknown group of voters, mostly white, rural,
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feeling disenfranchised, were influenced heavily by fear of other people, immigration, in an election that was heavily influenced by a foreign government. that's what happened in the uk. either the united kingdom falls out of the european union, a hard brexit, where the market will crash more, theresa may goes to parliament and asks for a delay. now we're having a referendum on democracy, frustrated group of people neerks-jerk reaction to a campaign that played off their fears, they still voted. that's where the uk is. it's ugly, it's bad. >> how do you think a new referendum would turn out? >> i think people would come out in droves to stay in the european union. people are having an introspect ive look at the country, what the foreign influence was, what people think about immigration. parallels are obvious. people, in droves, i think would
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vote to reverse what the previous vote was. >> let me turn to you in the u.s. -- >> where things are totally normal. >> let's take a step back and look at legislating, what this says what's happening in london, what this says is happening in washington, d.c. you had this piece of legislation vetoed by the president and congress that sometimes talks about biparti n bipartisansh bipartisanshi bipartisanship. >> because there's such a parallel to this country, what happened with trump and brexit was the canary in the coal mine, people were so shocked and didn't know what to do with trump's victory and republicans were cowed by it and realized they needed to change quickly to adapt to what trump was bringing to the table. first couple of years he was in office, he could basically run the table. he didn't do a lot legislatively because that's not his schtick. it was all about image and media
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and going to big rallies. one big legislative accomplishment he had, working with congress and the tax cut, that's something that republicans wanted for years and years anyway. they were all set to push that through. we have dysfunction at large. president trump has not been shown to be very adept at managing this, and the populous way that brought him into office, that drove brexit is sort of going back to normal, that congress has power, can make choices, separate and apart, can push back on the president, that we didn't see the first two years. people think we're in this new normal now. then things kind of return to where we used to be. >> talking about a literal referendum on democracy. taking a step forward, is that what we're seeing in the western world? that and venezuela as well, referendum on democracy as well. >> we're looking at the ways in
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which the structures and systems, do they give the ability for all of our voices to actually be heard? do they allow us, whether it's the single member districts that exists? are they the right tool, the design of democracy, i think, has to be in question as we think about sort of the new rules that allow multiracial, multi, you know, identity. >> clearistic? >> clearistic community to be heard. we have to deeply look at the role of what's happening outside of government, the role of the enablers, from corporations and others that have had a deep role of sort of pushing and supporting the kind of policies that have happened and allowed for donald trump to exist, right? hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil and pretending like they're playing some kind of middle ground. i do think, though, that thinking about sort of the old
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way as the best way. like dick cheney may have wanted to make people poor and crimi l criminalize poverty. he wanted to make people have to migrate through international policies and then criminalize migrattion. i don't want to look back with some feeling of yore in that it was so much better. >> i'm going to put this plate here in honor of st. patrick's day. >> coming up here on "up," first-ever veto to protect his border wall pledge. what does the president's plan do with the roughly $8 billion declaration? there's plenty of politics, it's becoming clearer and clearer, but no plan. and clearer, but no plan. rd designed to reduce it. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills?
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>> we're on track for a million illegal aliens to rush our borders. people hate the word invasion, but that's what it is. it's an invasion of drugs and people. >> many lawmakers feel frustrated over the president's decision to use his emergency powers and feel frustrated they continue to be kept in the dark about where the money is actually coming from and what it's going to be spent on. wall street journal saying the defense department did not deliver a plan its acting secretary said they would delivery by friday. how real is this, the fact that, yes, there was all the politicicing leading up to this policy. we got that figure. many times in this administration, there's no plan to back it up. >> there is a humanitarian emergency but it's being caused by a lot of the policies that trump is enacting, this so-called metering policy is a way of turning people back at
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ports of entry. interestingly enough, i think we're singularly focused on the people who are coming, asylum seekers, we need to be clear at ta. we're not looking at the root problem. we're not looking at what's happening in guatemala or el salvador. the administration is talking about venezuela. if the national emergency was legit mate, he would be looking at the root causes and why are these people coming from guatemala, el salvador where the government is falling apart? >> yes we have a democratic majority in the house, eager to investigate, asking for documents. now we're seeing time and time again those documents not being delivered. we're seeing two-page memos from white how the w.h.o. us counsel saying we're not going to deliver these documents. we don't believe we have to. from senator angus king, congress has a right to know which projects that we have authorized and we have
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appropriated funds for to put money toward the wall. talk about the brazenness that this white house has? >> i think it's a game of dogs and squirrel. >> good point. >> we, in media, have to follow where the squirrels are running, which is the white house but i think cal is absolutely right. we're missing the real story here, the humanitarian crisis in latin america that's causing this. and more than that. in covering that, we make strangers less strange. the problem here, the problem in the uk is that the others have been demonized. and we in media have to do something about that. so i think that the great efforts that cal and others have done, covering the humanitarian crisis in our shelters on the border is critical but give them modems as to why people are going through this horrendous trek, what their lives are like there. politically, we end up fighting over the wall and dollars for defense here or there, but i don't think that's the real
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story. >> katie phan, this administration has pushed back against those. i remember speaking to jeh johnson and he talked about push factors all the time. this hasn't been a focus at all for this administration. >> no. as a lawyer, whether you're doing criminal or civil law, you always want to know why. why are people doing what they're doing? what's the motive behind it? that's providing a humanizing view of what have been now labeled invaders, the shooter in new zealand talked about the invaders. trump uses the word invasion all the time. what's also compelling is that if you're not going to actually give the information that justifies the basis for the decision that you're making, it completely erode necessary legality to what you're doing. you want to be able to say that what you're doing is a legal action as president of the united states. what's really disturbing about
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that press conference that we saw with donald trump is the man standing behind him is bill barr. >> not the white house counsel. >> barrill barr, who we have lod at and maybe not scrutinized him as we should have. legal action taken by donald trump in signing this national emergency order but he took it one step further. he said it's to protect americans from immigrants basically. he didn't use the word immigrants but to protect americans. that's disturbing. you don't want your attorney general to basically be spouting in a legal vehicle or legal voice racism, nationalism. you don't want that happening. >> his predecessor in office did the same thing. >> jeff sessions had the same problem. >> and sarah sanders was seizing on that, tweeting about that last night as well. >> yes. one of the president's favorite programs to dial into, but it was curiously bumped last night.
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don't let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. ok look, if you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes. that's why this is the view for every other full-size pickup. and this year, it's déjà vu all over again 'cuz only the ford f-150 with its high strength, military-grade aluminum alloy body gives you best-in-class torque, best-in-class payload... and you got it, baby... best-in-class towing. still leading the pack. this is the big dog! this is the ford f-150. it doesn't just raise the bar, pal. it is the bar. this is "up." i'm david gura. is there a double standard at fox news? judge jenine piro and tucker carlson are both in trouble for
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comments they've made. i'll start with what jenine pirro said on her show "justice," openly questioning congresswoman omar's patriotism. >> think about it, according to koran 33:59 tells women to cover so they won't get molested. is her adherence to this islamic doctrine indicative of her adherence to shar. a law which is in itself antithetical to the constitution? >> fox news said they do not reflect those of the network and we've addressed the matter with her directly. fox news is not saying if pirro's pre-emption is permanent. tucker carlson's comments have
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been given a pass. carlson generates plenty of controversy for what he says on his show. digging it up was an ideologicallily motivated effor. when you look at fox, are we seeing a bit of a seat change here? does he have less patience for the things we saw come to light here in the past week? >> tucker carlson is still on the air, and fox news remains the most maligned influence on american politics out there. it's fox news that brainwashed americans, made americans angry alongside talk radio. and they're not doing anything on that. and frankly we don't cover it well enough because we don't want to watch it. it's disgusting, but we have to
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cover what much of the america including the president of the united states is watching and what they're not watching and not seeing as a result. >> you've gone toe to toe with tucker carlson before. your reaction to what he had to say, what it tells you about him and his brand of political commentary? >> well, first, he digs up stuff on people all the time. that's part of his stick. we've pushed fox news and led campaigns to get bill o'reilly off the air and glen beck. and part of that was really forcing advertisers to be accountable and make a choice and also mobilizing people inside of fox news. it's a big company, right? the people at the top maybe problematic but there are people who go to work every day, and we've got to hold these
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companies accountable throughout the organizations. i do think that, you know, fox news is susceptible right now. i do think there are real openingings, you know, just because of the model of cable in general and so much opportunity there is to -- that they have moved o'reilly off the air, they have moved others. i do think janine peero could suffer because she just gets on the air and says whatever she wants to say, but i do think it's going to take advertisers standing up and employees inside of fox newsstanding up and pushing back. and it's going to take the public to not just go to the next thing right away. >> on that point, i mean we've seen this before. advertising boycotts, a few weeks pass and lo and behold they're back. and look at the defense you're seeing from fox news and others, its ratings above all else. that's the metric for success here. is this time going to be different in that sense? >> i have to say, i don't see
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why anyone would think it would. it's roughly an extension on what goes on fox all the time. you watch all day long and what do you see? you see pictures of elon omar, alexandria cortez, the caravan it was supposedly coming to get us all before the election. janine peero took what was on fox and ran with it to another point. i don't see why that's punishable when she's basically doing what the network is created to do. and to your point, jeff, that's why it's really seeped into our culture and had this maligned effect. >> it's sanctioned, though. it's sanctioned propaganda. not everybody on that network does it, but the voicing and the opinion that comes out is exactly what's mirrored at the white house. i mean there is no coincidence
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that bill shine is in the white house -- or no longer, excuse me. but the point is you have a fetework that will never be sanctioned significantly because it's exactly what the white house messaging is. and if the president of the united states is setting the tone from the top down -- >> the issue is the anger that people feel. and frankly, they don't have a right to be angry. the people who i've met who are old white men, right, have had a good privileged life. and what they fear is that new voices are suddenly being heard because of the internet, who were not on media. and that's being demonized by the likes of murdock. and i think what we need are not so much journalists right now but mass psychology. >> but what happened to i'm sorry? >> we also need folks to stand up and push back against advertisers who show up in support, will allow for janine peero or tucker carlson to say
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the things they say, commercial hits and then allow their corporate brands to show up. if they cannot come for community of color and support by day and not at night. to actually hold these company aesktable because that's how we've made the change. no, i don't think it leads to long-term change at fox news, but i do think we've got to create some consequences for this behavior. >> pressure. on this double standard issue, there is a difference enhow these two hosts are being treated. >> it's a little asymmetrical in what tucker carlson is in trouble for this week are things he said years ago and something janine peero did say on the air. but what struck me about tucker carlson is defiant, never apologize, it's libs fault, they're trying to get me off the
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air. it's very much the way trump reacts when it happens to him, don't apologize, push back. >> thank you very much. and when we come back, new reporting on the president's after dark practice of soliciting advice from outsiders. just who is impressed with trump's coveted role the best. trump's coveted role the best. ♪
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welcome back to up. we start this hour with president trump and his smart phones, kelly. he reportedly has an android and an iphone for good measure. while president trump did not have any public events scheduled saturday he clearly had a lot on his mind and was eager to share it with his tweeter followers. denouncing the russia investigation. president trump also joined in taking a swipe at the special counsel in a series of tweets, not once, not twice but a total of six times. he also had a warning for general motors and a couple more attacks on google, the paris climate accord and the late senator john mccain which drew this rebuke from his daughter, meghan. i wish i'd been given more saturdays with him. perhaps spend more time with your family instead of obsessing on twitter over mine. doubling down on his attack on the late senator tweeting,
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quote, so it was indeed just proven in court papers, last in his class annapolis john mccain that cept the fake dossier to the fbi and media. he and the dems working together failed as usual. even the fake news refused this garbage. a lot there to unpack. when the president is not using his phone to tweet, you might say he's using it to fulfill this campaign promise. >> if i'm president, i promise you, i'll be making phone calls, folks. >> cnn has reported nearly every day of his presidency president donald trump has picked up the phone and turned to a network of nearly two dozen fellow billionaires and millionaires, sports figures and fellow advisers outside the white house. he sought their advice on policy issues but also called on reviews of his latest actions amassing feedback and even criticism. so who's he calling?
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up with me this morning, paul butler, sally cohn, jill wine-banks in from chicago, now an msnbc contributor, and mark thompson, host of the show of make it plain on serious xm. olivia, let me start with you. you're digging into the president's compulsive phone habits as you call them and go in search of his rolodex. you piece together this list of who he's calling. and i imagine him doing this furtively at night. who's he calling? give us a sense who he likes to get advice from in. >> it seems like it's a band of his friends and acquaintances and frenemies in the media and people in business, a lot of
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billionaires across various industries, you know, in total a lot of sports team owners and people like rupert murdock, robert kraft, folks like that. >> describe what that means. bill shine as we talked about last hour, on his way out of the white house. he learned a valuable lesson here. what was it how one can advice or try to advice as president? >> it was interesting that bill shine's decision was announced and was speaking to someone knowledgeable his decision, and they told me that he came to realize that you can have potentially more influence on the president by talking to him on the phone at night than actually being there in the west wing. and that struck me as being rather remarkable. in most white houses people are jockeying to get physically close to the president. and in this one because of the way the president socializes, if you can call it that, it may be the opposite.
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it may be that the further away you are, the less readily you could be blamed when things are falling apart in the white house, and therefore the more valuable your advice is to the president in his eyes. >> jill wipebanks there's that old saying reach out and touch someone, the telephone company, that slogan. what profile can you piece together about this president? after hannity's done you can shut the door and call these folks. >> first of all, it makes me nervous that he's having these private conversations with people that we don't know. one of the important things to have are the diaries and calendars from the white house. it can be very significant and telling evidence, and he's talking to one side point of view. he is not seeking any points of view from democrats or liberals or progressives. he's not even liberal republicans. he's looking at talk show hosts.
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he's being influenced by them instead of people who are trying to develop rational policy instead of things that will sell on television or radio. and so to me that's a danger. i think he is a lonely person who can't stand to have any self-reflection, so he doesn't want to ever not have something to do, so he gets on the phone and talks to whoever will talk to him. this idea -- i don't thinktist quite explained about the marx properties but crouchy marx used to say i don't want to belong to any club that doesn't want me as a member. so i think that's sort of what he's saying is i'm going to talk to the people i call. >> we see the policy ramifications of this. we saw it most recently with this boeing 737 max aircraft. all this political pressure was mounting on the faa, on the government to ground those planes here in the u.s., and all of a sudden we have a game of phone tag between the president and ceo of boeing. so yes, there is the element of
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this he's lonely, he want to talk to people. maybe he wants their support, but it's having implications on this administration. >> it's having adver implications and to jill's point the people he's talking to are a bunch of rich white dudes. so his kitchen cabinet is a lot like his senior cabinet and staff. we can look at the difference with president obama who famously invited into his cabinet hillary clinton, his political rival. we learned at the funeral of the late senator john mccain that they often consulted after obama was in office. and in obama's first cabinet he had two republicans, the defense secretary robert gates and ray lahood, and i think that diversity, that receptivity to different points of view explains a lot in terms of the effectiveness of the obama
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administration. no drama obama versus full of drama trump and an ineffective administration. >> but it also goes all the way back to the lincoln administration. a book called "team of rivals" talks about the pow orof having diverse views and enemies within. it's an old phrase, of course, better to have your enemies inside the tent. >> it sheds light on him, but it also highlights hypocrisy. i look at the tweet that came out this morning. last in his class annapolis just confirmed. this is what, days after michael cohen was on capitol hill talking about how scared this president was about his high school and college transcripts and he did transfer into warden being exposed. this is the means in which we get this strange window into the president. >> in fact, she was very polite not to include a clinician in
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her piece. that was very polite of her. the john mccain tweet helps to explain the late night phone calls. he's insecure, he's paranoid. i bet if we got audio of those calls it would sound just like the nixon tapes, you know, railing against people, just this constant flow. if there were an aa for dry drunks, trump would need a sponsor. trump needs confirmation, so he's calling everybody to get their confirmation, get their reassurance because he's insecure and paranoid. and as far as john is concerned, john mccain, that is, he served his country. no matter what you say about john mccain, and obviously i disagreed a great deal with his political positions over the years, but trump dodged vietnam. obama read a team of letters to
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the letter. whatever people successful do, he does the opposite because he's too insecure and unable to -- >> i should say if there's anyone who went to annapolis they're proud of the fact he went there, and olivia many fine points in this piece is when you had an interview with the president. describe for us now what that's like, the way he uses the phone. there is a familiarity. there is something unique about the way this president uses the phone. >> it's interesting when i was researching this piece, an interesting detail in that book is president trump's father fred
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trump would retire back to making work phone calls. so maybe the psychological explanation is that simple. he's just miming that behavior he grew up watching. but my first interview with him back in 2014 is by phone, which is not unusual. obviously a lot of interviews are conducted that way. but i remember being struck and noting in my story at the time how much of his voice, how much it seemed to convey. normally there's like a barrier when you're talking to someone on the phone. as journalists we would rather interview people in person because you feel you get more of a sense with who they are. but with trump it's almost like his physical being is so distracting there's a kind of sensory deprivation that his soul to the extent he has one is able to come through. and i remember being struck by that at the time, and i was thinking about his phone habits today writing this piece, i was
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thinking about maybe he feels more comfortable being kind of a caricature the way he is, just being a kind of disembodied voice communicating with another disembodied voice. >> there was for a time after the election, maybe even a few weeks after the election this hope and he was supposed to be the reasonable voice on china policy, for instance. what does this tell you, this reporting we've learned so far about the ability anyone has to advice this president and sway him? >> this is the thing, he has surrounded himself with a lot of people in and outside of the white house who are very self-similar, and who seem to just be telling him more of what
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he wants to hear, railing against his enemies when, you know, serious threats to his presidency and his credibility and leadership are closing in. encouraging him to lash out at john mccain -- all of this is the kind of thing you can only have in an echo chamber like effect. look, everyone knows i know hannity. we're friends or whatever, but you can go crazy if you watch his show every night let alone if you talk to him on the phone. ites interesting here because i don't want to put down the idea of actually a president picking up the phone and making calls. going back to the obama comparison he used to read five letters every day the white house set aside from regular people. and if he was picking up the phone and calling them or trump was picking up the phone and calling generals and small business leaders as well as big executives, right. so it's not that he's sitting
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and using the phone. i think that's a way to get beyond the bubble. it's who he's calling is very much in his particular very extreme, very narrow, very crazy bubble. >> olivia, great piece. joining us from washington, d.c. and up next new signs robert mueller may be wrapping up his investigation. how the president's latest twitter flip-flop is leaving us scratching our heads. ip-flop is scratching our heads discover. hi, what's this social security alert? it's a free alert if we find your social security number on the dark web. good, cuz i'm a little worried about my information getting out. why's that?
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welcome back to up. it was an extremely busy week in the russia investigation as washington continues to wait for mueller's report. paul manafort was sentenced to more than 7 years in prison. president trump is not ruling out a pardon. the president has also given us his latest flip-flop in reaction to a house vote that called for robert mueller's report to be made public. here's the tweet, quote, i told leadership to let all republicans vote for transparency. makes us all look good and doesn't matter, play along with the game, end quote. the president had a different take just a day earlier tweeting the special counsel had never been appointed and there should be no mueller report. meanwhile two of the special counsel's deputies are leaving mueller's office, a sign many say the investigation is winding down. paul manpert's former right-hand man, rick gates, continues to cooperate in several ongoing investigations. robert mueller's team has asked for his sentencing to be delayed. that has been granted.
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two shared polling data to a man tied to russian intelligence. michael flynn, the president's national security advisor has also asked for a delay in his sentencing for an unrelated case. what does this say to you about where things stand? when you look at michael flynn it has to do with some turkish agents in washington, this kind of wild story. of course he was implicated in this plot not hashed but suggested that he go after this cleric in the pennsylvania hills. with rick gates, that extension, what does it say to you? >> i think the extensions in general say that the investigation is not over. they're not done yet. they're still working with gates. he has more information to share. the search at roger stone's home yielded a high amount of data. treasure-trove. and you can't wrap up until that's done. on the other hand, there were some mixed signals because we did have allen weisselberg
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resigning and the top agent, but really that means the manafort part of the trial is over. now we can move onto other things. think about the things that haven't been done, donald trump, jr., cors ig, the list goes on and on. you can't wrap up that fast and i think i have never joined in the predictions that it's going to be over soon. i've been saying all along there's still too much to do, and the watergate report came out a year after -- more than a year after the trial ended. it took time to do a lot of other cases that were in the office that weren't related to the cover-up case. and so i think there's still a lot more to be done, and that we shouldn't be waiting for that. i think we need to have public hearings in the interim. we need to have fact finding
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hearings, because the american public needs to be brought along in the same way that the watergate group was. we had the senate hearings and people saw witnesses, they judged their credibility. this goes to what olivia was saying, why you want to interview someone in person. you see their body language, you can judge their credibility much better if you see them. we've now seen one witness in public. we saw michael cohen. that's not enough. we need to see other people. >> speaking of body language mark thompson nodding. you agree with jill? >> not only that, you know, what nancy pelosi said and some of that angering her, i frankly think she's ropa doping trump. if i were trump's attorneys i wouldn't be buying into that. if wii do what jill said, this is what i think should happen, the committees that are similar, they've got 81 subpoenas coming
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out of the judiciary, masheen waters, financial services which he really ought to be fearful of -- oversight. have those public fact finding investigations, record all of those as evidence and then you could call an impeachment hearing and have read into the record all those other fact findings read into the hearings and an hour later vote to impeach. >> if -- if the evidence shows culpability. >> it will. >> i think everyone at this table agrees there's enough out there it will but i want to reserve judgment until i see what the evidence is. we have to step back and say let's find the facts. >> and those public hearings may change the minds of some of those republicans who they think won't vote because that's what happened in 1974. everybody wasn't ready to vote to impeach but when they saw those public hearings nixon
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knew -- >> you've had the light shining on the mueller investigation. you see that lens widening. it's to congress now in those investigations and then you've got this 16-count indictment in new york, 16 charges now against paul manafort. we've been so laser focused on that mueller investigation report, are we now stepping back and seeing how broad this has gotten? >> so the state charges are still about the investigation. what these state charges are about is if there is a presidential pardon trump can't pardon new york state crimes. and so potentially even if he's sprung from prison for that seven years for the federal case, he could still be locked up for the state charges. so, again, it's the federal and state governments working together. you know, the concern i have about the report -- the mueller report is that the people who
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will decide are attorney general william barr and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who reportedly is just staying around until the report comes out. but the justice department is trying to have it both ways. they say on the one hand that a sitting president can't be prosecuted because the constitutional remedy is impeachment. and 10 they turn around and say but the mueller report, which would contain the evidence of impeachment is secret. so congress and the people can't get the information that we need to determine whether the president should be removed from office. >> the answer is the grand jury itself can ask the district court chief judge to release the information. that's exactly what we did in watergate. the road map that was given to the house judiciary committee was from the grand jury, and it was on that order. >> bringing up what nancy pelosi brought up this week, do you see her closing the door on that this week? >> i think she's walking an
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important line, which is listen, like the truth is as politically ideologically and rightfully so as democrats are motivated against this president and not only the possible crimes that he has committed but the moral, ethical, constitutional crimes he continues to commit as president, as much as that motivates democrats, we're all people who believe in law and order and the constitution and justice. and i think for both moral, practical and political reasons don't want to put an ideological agenda ahead of what's actually right, which is finding out the truth, presenting that truth to all sides of the country and then making a smart decision about what to do. when we do come back 2020 heats up and senator kirsten jill brnld makes it official and former vice president joe biden drops a big hit. nd former vice president joe biden drops a big hit. you've got to get in there, like...
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welcome back to "up." 2020 candidate beto o'rourke hosting events in both madison and milwaukee, states that propelled trump to the white
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house in 2016. as beto o'rourke hits the trail critics are calling into question his qualifications. there's this in new york magazine. he has a reason to run. it's good reason just not one he can say out loud. he made headlines by telling vanity fair, man i'm just born to be in it. telling my colleague on "meet the press" with chuck todd, being born to run was not an option for her. >> i have a lot of respect for beto, and it's great to have some texas in this race, but, no, i wasn't born to run for office. just because growing up in the '70s in the middle of the country i don't think many people thought a girl could be president. >> in wisconsin on the trail with beto o'rourke, over these last few days he's been out on the campaign trail meeting with people, but we've also gotten some clarity on his platform positions as well.
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how is he doing as people voice this criticism on the campaign trail? >> it's interesting, david. while he was out on the campaign trail in iowa yesterday he was essentially flip-flopping cities with amy klobuchar. we were hearing from folks at two different events saying we saw the minnesota senator earlier this afternoon, and now we're coming to hear beto o'rourke. and there was a distinction clearly made by folks, a number of them who they said she liked klobuchar because she came in with not only detailed prescriptions but also what the she's done in her time over the last ten years in the senate. they said meanwhile while they were listening to beto o'rourke there was much less in the form of specifics. at the same time, it's hard not to push away what beto o'rourke and kind of what the democratic symbol is in parties. people here in iowa say they had been following him on his texas run, waiting to listen to him
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and they said they felt that same energy, that ultimately what they were hearing was coming out of texas, that kept him from beating ted cruz. he crossed the state line overnight. i was just talking with the gentleman tom gray who came from wisconsin, about an hour northwest of here. tomorrow he'll be in ohio and in michigan. david? >> thank you very much for the update. you're traveling with beto o'rourke on the campaign trail in the 2020 election. on one extreme you've got senator elizabeth warren who's been releasing lengthy policy proposals, one yesterday on housing. she had this big policy proposal on what should happen to the tech companies as well. and then you've got someone like beto o'rourke who's simply finding his feet on the campaign trail. does that bother you? >> i'd like to know what the differences are between this wonderful array of democrats who
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are running. so to the extent klobuchar is going after beto, i like that. i want to know what the differences are. i'm really interested in what senator biden will do. i don't know he's going to inspire in the same way some of these new folks are. he's got a lot of baggage with regard to mass incarceration, some of the stuff that got secretary clinton in trouble during her race. and now there's also concerns about the way senator biden performed during the anita hill hearings. and so many people are now outraged properly about what went down with justice kavanaugh. again, that stuff might come back to haunt biden. >> we'll get to joe bood in jid couple of minutes here. i want to get your reaction on beto o'rourke thus far on the campaign trail. >> not much yet.
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look, okay, let me start by saying it is such a nice thing and i've said this on your show before -- it's such a nice thing to have choice. >> more than a dozen candidate. >> right. so i'm like the more the merrier. i may not think biden's the strongest candidate or beto o'rourke, but we can handle this kind of robust debate. and what i do like even when klobuchar was making her point she wasn't making it in a mean-spirited way. i think we're going to have a very leaderful and inspiring democratic primary. look, i do want to say there is this caution we have, right, of just well, whoever can beat trump. and i hear that a lot. well, whoever can beat trump. look, two things frch first of all, whether he's re-elected unfortunately is going to have more to do with the state of theky. we know that from previous second term presidencies had, the state of the economy and to
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an extent the investigations going on. and in the right circumstances any of the current or potential democratic contenders i think could beat him. so the question is actually who do you believe can run and lead this country going forward. so, yes, other things matter. not just charisma, not just the ability to give a good speech but experience about leadership, knowledge about policy. these things actually do matter. and we used to be the party that actually cared about those things and ideas and i hope we don't lose that because we're so frightened who's in the white house. >> do you see that happening, are we starting to see some differentiation when it comes to policy? >> not yet. it's still too early to tell, and all of those who have announced are exceptional people, beto included. now, frankly, if i had been asked because i know stacey abrams is considering running
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again. beto should be running to unseat -- democrats need the senate as much as the white house. they're young enough, there's time to run for president. so i think this thing now is the only thing to do now is to run for president, but they have a right to run. they're both exceptional candidates. i think -- i agree slightly with sally, but i would say it a bit differently. within this is that the constituency in place is moving the party more towards progressive and liberal left terms which i use interchangeably. i don't know we'll see a whole lot difference. and then the risk that runs, here's the bad part potentially is that it does become a beauty contest. and so i don't know if that's the best way to pick it. it also makes the democrats
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susceptible to a gaff. all howard dean was scream, finished and, you know, those aren't the types of things that should be happening. so i really don't know how they're going to differentiate themselves, but i have faith in those in the primary to pick a person they think would be best. and the last thing, i don't know if the headline overemphasized the statement, sometimes hetd lines do that. i don't know if that's what he really meant, but i remember hillary clinton was attacked for -- which wasn't necessarily true. the right said she had wanted to run for president since she was 6 years old. and so amy klobuchar is right. women aren't born to do that because they never would have been allowed to. you said yourself your mother couldn't even vote. >> i think it's really important to look at the sexism that is involved in this particular race. and we have to ask ourselves if amy klobuchar is attacked for how she's treating her staff, if
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she were a man, how would she be treated? and we can go back when i first started practicing law, only 2% of all lawyers would be women. i was just at the national archives. i came upon a headline that said woman lawyer appointed to prosecution staff. i mean, that's what it was like. and so when amy says i wasn't born, it sounded more like it reminds me of kavanaugh hearing, which was really a case of white male privilege. and it shouldn't be limited to that. we have to look at the qualifications of the person. who's going to be the best? i'm -- sally said something i agree with, which is i want someone who's going to win. i don't care who they are, if they can win. and i think what we need to do is motivate democrats. >> we'll come back here in just a minute and talk a bit about joe biden. he could give trump a run for his money in the general, but can he survive the primaries?
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i have the most progressive running for anybody running for the -- anybody who would run. of anybody who would run. >> of course former vice president joe biden speaking last night in dover, delaware. we were talking about him just a few minutes ago. sally combs has written a piece
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about joe biden. >> from the southwest, yeah. >> i'll read a bit from that piece. we should be highlighting this forward looking vision in contrast to trump's backward looking hate. but also with a past that will need to be relitigated. suggest he has the best chance of beating trump. that is unfounded. you wrote this piece for usa today. walk us through what you're thinking about what he might be thinking about his viability in this race? >> electability is obviously important. i think any of the candidates or possible candidates running on the democratic side in the right conditions are electable. so i think it's important to put that aside. and if we don't believe that we need only look to 2016. if donald trump can be elected president, then we can run this cookie. all right, so that's point one. point two, look, i think historically in this country and certainly for the last 50, 60 years politics has been a very
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conventional left-right equation. and what we started to see in 2016 was a shift instead of a politics instead about the people or populism versus the elite. and in 2016 donald trump managed to make himself the avatar of populism, the sort of disaffected billionaire who doesn't engage in plite conversation, isn't in the in circles. and hillary clinton was -- could not have been more out of criminal casting as an avatar of the conventional political elite. now fast forward, the contest we're having in this country and not just in 2020, but existentially for the next several years is what kind of populism are we going to have going forward? economic elitism, political elitism, so the question is are we going to have an exclusionary
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hateful trump-esque populism or an inclusive democratic populism for all. we need a candidate who not omcan win but define and lead that fight for the next generation, and that ain't joe biden. he may be the most popialist seeming, but he's a classic corporate centrist. he's from the great banking state of delaware. he can't have -- he can't engage where the country not only the base of democratic voters but the country needs him to right now. >> there's been this focus on beto's personal history, so the policy history isn't as deep, but to your point earlier joe biden has a very long policymaking history. it's something that is likely to be scrutinized in a way that beto o'rourke doesn't have to face. >> joe biden has a lot of
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baggage. so this 1994 crime bill that had all these draconian progressions, three strikes and you're out, this federal crack powder cocaine distinction that's not based on any science, he was there and in the room when this was happening. and again we'll see commercials during the democratic primary if any of those democrats want to step up with those hearings with anita hill where he was one of those all white male senators on the judiciary committee who really treated professor hill inappropriately. it's a little bit unfair, beto again, democrats love them a little white boy, and he gets a lot of things for saying things if a women candidate had said it, but when beto says that kind of stuff, folks love it. >> just lastly, when you look at joe biden, how important is that history?
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>> well, i think he has said his biggest mistake in life was how he handled the anita hill hearing. and it wasn't so much how he treated her as cutting it off before it's over. but there were witnesses ready to corroborate her, and they wouldn't take the extra time. saw that again in the kavanaugh hearing. it's a mistake. what's so important? and the five minute rule for, you know, questions, that's ridiculous. give people time to develop what they're asking. so that was a mistake, so i disagree a little with sally because i think he can be the populist person. he relates well to the blue collar community, to the average american. yes, he's from a banking state but look at his record. i don't think it's so bad on social issues. he has problems because he's been in congress for such a long time and he's done something.
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and it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. humira citrate-free is here. a little change can make a big difference. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. here's to you. welcome back. it is no secret in some ways the rich have it easier and money often equals access. that's not breaking news. you can see it in the stories involving felicity half man and
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paul manafort. felicity huffman is caught up in a college scandal. some 50 people were caught up in it. we are losing the war on corruption the article is titled. part of the elite acts with impunity. manafort retrieved a paltry prison sentence after getting the vip version of incarceration. i want to draw from frank ford's piece on the show. he says if americans are more comfortable living in a world of bribery perhaps it is because american jurisprudence legalized so much of it. your reaction? how good is this line being drawn? >> i don't think it is fair to say that bribery is legalized. there are tough laws. it is a question of whether they will be enforced. 50% of the cases in federal court are drug cases. when we see the sentencing of michael flynn this week one of judge sullivan's concerns whose
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double howard university university and law school, then paul manafort on the other hand, who actually is a federal case. judge sullivan used the treason word at the first botched sentencing. the prosecutor is saying, oh, sentence lowered to the guidelines and the guidelines are zero to six. there is clearly something unfair. quickly to this other point, i had the great fortune of going to yale for college. i got a great education. i was treated well, but often felt folks were looking at me like, well, you know why he got in. there were all these kids whose parents were wealthy, whose moms -- not moms, but dads and grandfathers went to yale. >> at that time. >> but it wasn't seen as special consideration. that's what galls me about the story. the rich get richer. they still get breaks but people
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who work hard to get in, we don't get the same breaks. >> what do you see when you look at these two. what happened with paul manafort, the seven years he got and the indictment handed down in boston? >> i think what we have is inequity in the system at all levels. when we look at sentencing we can compare paul manafort to the mayor of detroit who got 28 years for virtually similar crimes. he's african-american. he's a former mayor. he shouldn't be treated differently. so how do we justify seven years for paul manafort? now, we clearly maybe shouldn't be worrying about raising paul manafort. seven years is a long time. he will suffer enormously being in prison. we should be looking at the ones who are getting the high sentences and say, why are they getting such high sentences? let's look at what's fair and reasonable. paul pointed out the different
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between crack cocaine. why did that happen? why does it matter? when there is a dramatic departure like manafort's case from the sentencing guidelines it does raise suspicions. you have to look at it. this was a man who not only didn't cooperate, he lied after he was supposed to be cooperating. he tampered with witnesses. he deserved a high sentence. >> i want to ask about how catalytic the cases are. paul manafort pioneered doing business in washington, d.c. today with lobbying, the grotesquery involved in that. you have this as well. the parents who did what they did are causing a lot of colleges and parents and teams and coaches to look at practices as well. do you see things changing as a result of the two cases? >> i think they are catalytic in justifying what we talked about before. this is the big election next year will have as much to do with class as it does with race.
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the democratic party is moving people to think about these things, income inequality, wealth inequality. even amongst whites. there is white privilege. what we learned is there is rich white privilege. to be specific about that, you have people working a hustle to put white kids, their white kids into elite schools. that not only cuts off opportunities for people of color like us who have been locked out. think about all of the middle class to poor white students who have all the student loan debt to get degrees to be a part of a middle class which really now means working poor. that cuts them out, too. that is appalling. as far as manafort is concerned, i didn't understand what trump was doing.
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he kept talking about manafort. he worked with ronald reagan. he kept saying it overagain. i think he was signalling to the judge who was appointed by reagan. i think that was part of the decision made. both cases i hope would be catalysts to change. >> we have to leave it there for time. thank you all for being here. up next, joy reid has the pulse of ohio with a special "a.m. joy" focus group on 2020 coming up. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are.
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xfinity, the future of awesome. that does it for me. thank you for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts now. >> managed to get the other gun and start shooting at me. i managed to get in between the cars and get away from the firing. when i went to the site of the mosque and saw there was a dead body with a shotgun there. i just grabbed that shotgun. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." firsthand accounts are beginning to come in from survivors of the mass shootings at two mosques in christchurch, nz. we have grim details on the attacks. one additional victim was found while officials were clearing the shooting

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