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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  March 18, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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twitter at mitchell reports. i'll be heading to the middle east with secretary of state pompeo, and meanwhile here is ali velshi and stephanie ruhle with "velshi & ruhle." >> hello, everyone. i'm ali velshi. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. let's get smarter. >> dutch police are looking for a person they say opened fire on a tram south of amsterdam. three people are confirmed dead, nine injured according to u trek's mayor. he said they're looking at a possible terror motive from the suspect. >> city is very much on lockdown. you can hear the police and ambulances going around. >> and terror in new zealand, the death toll from friday's attacks rises to 50, as victims are identified and laid to rest, the prime minister promises -- promises sweeping gun law changes in the next ten days.
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>> white nationalism is a rising threat around the world. >> i don't really. i think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems. i guess if you look at what happened in new zealand, perhaps that's a case, i don't know enough about it yet. >> you've seen the president stand up for religious liberties. the president is not a white supremacist. i'm not sure how many times we have to say that. >> he pushed the muslim ban, he called it that, forced it and fought for it all through up to the supreme court. it's kind of hard for me to agree with the chief of staff. >> betting on beto, the o'rourke campaign raises a record-breaking $6.1 million within the first 24 hours of his announcement. >> what do you say to those folks who donated to your campaign in the first 24 hours of your announcing? >> i say thank you to everyone who is helping to build the largest grassroots campaign this country has ever seen.
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>> this has the field grows eve bigger with senator kirsten gillibrand. and oops, announcing he's running. >> i have the most progressive record of anybody who is running -- [ cheers and applause ] of anybody who would run. >> all right. first we begin with breaking news. a manhunt underway right now after a deadly attack in the city of utrect in the netherlands. >> the town's mayor said the suspe suspect killed three people and injured five others on a tram. it is being treated as a possible terrorist incident and a terror alert is at its highest level. >> join us from utrecht is brian carter. brian, what do we know about the suspect? do the police know who he is? >> yes, well, they have a name.
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it's 37-year-old gugman according to authorities. this man has been condemned in the past for several different violent acts, but he wasn't known to have terrorist ties. the investigation will be able to confirm it or not in the coming hours, in the coming days. what you can see behind me is really the 24 of october square. this is where the shooting took place this morning at about 10:45 this morning. three people have been reportedly killed in this attack and five others injured. and meanwhile, only 500 feet away from here, after the suspect fled the scene, the police have been searching different apartments where we think that perhaps goodman tannis is either living or had been previously. they are looking for clues, looking for potential clues in this investigation to bring it to the next step. the authorities here in the netherlands are on high alert and so are the other countries
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around the netherlands. they are coordinating their efforts. but several media reports are citing the turkish news agency, which is saying they spoke to family members of him. this could be a family feud gone wrong. apparently he was really aiming at a specific woman in this tram, and that other people came and helped and he shot at these people as well. but this is unconfirmed at this stage. we'll have more information in the next few hours. >> so, we know that the terror alert is at its highest level in the region. what are police dog to keep people safe? >> well, they actually brought it down. they were the highest level, which is five on five. they brought it down to four, meaning that potentially they know exactly who did this attack and that they had good information on where to apprehend this suspect. for a few hours today as well,
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the people here in utrecht, the citizens of this city were told not to leave their homes. that notice has been lifted, so people are free to go about their daily activities, except on this square behind me where it's completely closed off pending the investigation. >> all right, brian, thanks very much for your reporting. brian carter for us in utrecht in the netherlands. >> now to another story that is rocking people around the world. 50, that is the number, 50, the number of innocent lives lost after a gunman opened fire on muslim worshippers in two new zealand mosques on friday. authorities are now calling the suspect a, quote, right wing extremist terrorist who sent a hate speech-filled document to the prime minister just minutes before the attacks. the tragedy has sparked global outrage and put a new spotlight on the rise of hate groups abroad and here at home. >> president trump condemned the attacks in the oval office on friday, but when asked if he agrees that there is a growing
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threat of white nationalism, here's what he said. >> i don't really. i think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems, i guess. >> all right. for facts sake, white nationalism is on the rise, particularly in the united states. members -- >> and no different from white supremacy. can we please always remind our audience? all the time we hear nationalist is the same as a patriot. no, it's not. >> it's a much more serious matter. members of the fbi, members of congress have said it themselves. >> white supremacist extremists will likely pose a threat of lethal violence over the next year. >> the fbi has had in the neighborhood of about a thousand pending domestic terrorism investigations. those cover the waterfront, from everything from white supremacists and sovereign citizens, militias, all the way to anarchists.
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>> the threat to our security is greater with these groups than it is with these sort of foreign fighters or, you know, foreign-inspired individuals, and we just need to confront this. >> now, there's plenty of real data to back all of this up. the reality is the number of hate groups operating across america rose to an all-time high last year. a total of 1,020. that is according to the southern poverty law center which tracks hate groups. this issue has been around for awhile. the antidefinite nation league found 71% of deaths linked to extremism in the united states between 2008 and 2017 were committed by far-right attackers. a total of 387 people were killed by domestic extremists in the united states during that period of time. another study from the nation institute found that between 2008 and 2016, those far-right attacks were attempts
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outnumbered islamist incidents 2 to 1. america has seen white nationalism rise at a faster rate. last october 11 people were shot to death in a pittsburgh synagogue and a man was sending a dozen pipe bombs in the mail to well known critics of the president. in 2017, a protester was hit by a car and killed during a rally of white supremacists in charlottesville, virginia. president trump down played theish up of white nationalism then, too, after the vie lns in charlottesville. you might recall he said there were, quote, very fine people on both sides. steph? >> joining us now director of cal state's center for the study of hate and extremism, brian levin and washington post columnist and assistant professor of global politics at university college london, brian class. mr. levin, to you first. one study your center has conducted found that hate crimes in 30 major u.s. cities are up for the fifth year in a row. those who are saying hate crimes aren't going up, i turn you over
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to data, not politics. can you elaborate on this? >> yes. some real interesting data that we have, we're coming out with our report this month. in 30 of america's largest cities, hate crimes rose for the fifth consecutive year. and if that translates nationally when the fbi introduces their data right before thanksgiving, that will be the fourth year nationally. what else have we seen? we've also seen a rise in homicides by white nationalists in the united states. our data is a little different than our colleagues at the adl. we look at homicides that are just motivated by that ideology, and we've seen an increase. and indeed, the tree of life shooting last october was the worst massacre of jews in recent american history. actually, all american history. also, hate crimes have increased across europe. 2017, organization of security
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and cooperation in europe, england, germany, austria, and a variety of other countries all increasing. one other thing, though, that i think is interesting. when one type of hate goes up, it has a gravitational pull. and that might be what we're seeing with respect to what's happening in the netherlands today, but also among the biggest increases last year included anti-semitic, but also antiwhite. african americans, though, continue to be the most targeted group in major american cities along with gays and jews. >> all right. brian klaas, you tweeted earlier president trump has cast himself as a central figure of global bigotry and hate, and it isn't something new. interestingly enough, when donald trump was associated with this, because the shooter in new zealand had mentioned him, i think normal people would go out of their way to distance themselves from that sort of thing. donald trump just didn't do that. when presented with the opportunity to do so, by
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reporters, he didn't take that opportunity. >> he didn't. and he down played it and minimized it as he always does. and beyond that, you know, you have two really intriguing data points on either side of this attack that i think are really disgusting honestly. one is that while the attack was going on, trump's most recent tweet was a link to breitbart, which is one of the most islamophobic websites in the american media system. then after the attack, two days later when judge gentleman mean pirro, fox news was under fire for the fact she made extremely bigoted comments towards muslims, trump decided to spend his day defending her on twitter. we should defend anti-muslim big otzelberger. that ideology is the same ideology shared by the shooter. i think when we have something where -- an act of violence occurs, the normal human instinct is to condemn it without any sort of equivocation, and trump is simply unable to do that when the shooter is somebody who is a white nationalist. at some point we have to say this is not a coincidence.
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>> why do you think that is? >> well, i think because trump has part of his base that is involved in this. i think there's winks and nudges that are happening. and i think it's also that trump has been like this for a very long time. i mean, back in 2011 and 2012, trump scored political points by accusing or insinuating that barack obama was some sort of secret muslim. and then during the campaign he not only said we should have a database to track muslims, which is an insane and horrible thing to say, but he also even more egregiously proposed banning all muslims from entering the united states. an entire religion simply because of their religious beliefs. you know, this gets downplayed because the actual muslim ban, his words, not mine, ended up becoming a travel ban. but it was still originating from his actual original proposal december of 2015 when he said, a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. if you said that about any other group, it would end your political career and somehow there is this mainstreamization
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of bigotry under donald trump towards muslims, which is really unfor and something we need to call out. >> i remind you, ali, when the travel ban or muslim ban was put in place, it was rudy giuliani who said, donald trump called me on the phone and asked me how he could legally put -- enforce a muslim ban. so we've heard it from them. >> brian levin -- >> yes. eig >> -- to point out something else, a poll in 2017 found some alarming numbers. 9% of americans find nazi views acceptable. kind of nasa nating to me. it's not a huge number, but it's kind of 8.99% higher than i would have thought it is. >> yes, and we're seeing far-right parties in europe. i'm not talking about conservative parties. ukip and other parties. parties like david cameron, conservative prime minister, called them loons and racists. parties like that are polling in
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the double digits in places like france, germany and elsewhere in europe. one other quick point that i want to just interject here on that muslim ban. listen to what we have with respect to data. his muslim ban proposal came out on december 7th, 2015, five days after the horrible attack affected our community in san bernardino. we saw a spike in anti-muslim hate crime the day after and those following days. when candidate trump made his muslim ban proposal, we saw an additional spike above and beyond the spike that we saw after the terror attack. flip it. six days after 9/11, president bush speaks of tolerance at the muslim center in d.c. people who intimidate wearing head cover should be ashamed of themselves. hate crimes dropped by two-thirds the next day and two-thirds the next year. and no, we don't hoax this data, it's fbi. >> very interesting, guys.
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thank you very much for the work you do on this to help us understand it. these issues are on the rise. well, sort of baffling and to what brian levin just said, if leadership comes from the top and tries to tamp these things down, perhaps we can start to go in the right direction. thanks to both of you, brian levin, brian klaas. >> was it a week ago the president said in his words they are antijewish? i don't understand the root of all of this and why any of it is getting support. >> what i don't understand, somebody did what they did in new zealand and identified you on manifesto, you'd be on def con 9. in couldn't be the case. >> the president can't control what's in the manifesto. >> one doesn't have to believe he's connected to it. but the idea one discounts that -- if my name is dragged into something, i'm going to work hard to get it -- >> no, following the attack, the president worked hard to defend
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cable news hosts who just a week ago were pushing anti-muslim narrative. >> yeah, it is baffling. still ahead, presidential candidate beto o'rourke brings in a record number of campaign cash donations in the first day of his race despite being on his policies, the site -- the fact he was light on policies in his meet and greet, we're going to dig into that and talk about one of his competitor's economic policies coming up. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. ♪ carla is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptor-positive her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." we begin with 2020, and the avalanche of money piling up in the one and only beto o'rourke's campaign coffers. o'rourke with the luck of the irish or the momentum of the new political star, set a record in his first 24 hours as a candidate, $6.1 million in donations. that's a lot of money. >> that's more money, by the way, than senator bernie sanders had a first day haul, $5.9 million. more than senator kamala harris's impressive $1.5 million influx immediately after she announced. and klobuchar each brought in a million dollar in their race. o'rourke is zeroing in on two battle ground states. >> president trump turned red in 2016 those very states and that's why he's focused. estopp
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he stopped on coffee shops in michigan and hopped on a table to get people's attention in detroit hours later. heelt be spending the afternoon am ohio. >> garrett haake is literally on the road right now. he's in a car following this campaign blitz. garrett? >> reporter: hey, ali. we are going in true road warrior fashion. i should point out i am not driving. i am the passenger this this car, trying to keep up with beto o'rourke in what's been a busy campaign day, very busy launch week for him, doing multiple events every single day. today is no exception. three events in michigan this morning. on our way to cleveland, ohio. it has been fascinating to watch this campaign develop essentially in real-time. here's beto o'rourke, someone who launched his campaign without a lot of specific policy proposals. and he has taken questions from voters at every single event and he continues to get pushed to develop more and more what he thinks about these things. i mean, he's doing it in real-time. the last event was no exception. and it was fascinating, a lot of
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questions about identity. it was his most diverse crowd yet. and he got pushed about how he could relate to members of the black community, how he would defend transwomen who are so often victims of crime in their community. it was also interesting because we saw o'rourke start more and more to push back against the rhetoric president trump has been using. he's not someone who likes to talk about trump or talk about anything except the big ideas he wants to push for the country at his events. and i asked him about that development, why he is pushing back more against president trump. here's what he had to say. >> he's trying to divide us. whether it's calling mexican immigrants rape i felts a immigrants rapists and criminals, calling neo-nazis fine people, a beittacking unio when we need higher paying jobs, jobs with dignity that pay a living wage. we can't succumb to that.
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let's not play his game. >> reporter: o'rourke pushing back on the president and linking it back as i did in my question to him, the president's tweet storm this weekend particularly targeting in this case gm and the uaw. guys? >> garrett, thank you so much. we're going to let you get back to the road, even if you're not driving, you do need to play navigator. >> all right. now to the one democratic candidate who seemed to do a reset this weekend. kirsten gillibrand who told the world she was running for president in a late night talk show appearance said she was making it official in a video release. the new york senator not giving away much of her economic plan for the country, her teen ayers indicate she is a candidate who has moved steadily to the left. gillibrand has championed a host of tax cuts and credits to helping small businesses, a credit of up to 20% of the increased salary for new hires. she's pushing a made in america
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plan to offer could have pettive grants to small manufacturers that would help them retool their operations, retrain workers and pay for technology upgrades. now, gillibrand has also come out in favor of a universal jobs guarantee. it would require the federal government to provide work to every american who wants it, and shift them into infrastructure and care-giving jobs. she's also calling for a federal infrastructure bank to leverage private sector money into private sector projects. on health care gillibrand has come out for medicare for all, a government-run single pair system that would insure all americans. steph? >> one of the things you have to look at, one could say look at people like elizabeth warren who are going policy first, policy first, and beto o'rourke who is not, and you can criticize beto because he's not as valid but you have to look at what do voters care about. at this moment, you would think it might be policy, policy, given how many people are looking for something different. but where they're putting their money in is sort of this idea of hope and enthusiasm.
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>> quick programming note, by the way. chris hayes is going to host a town hall with kirsten gillibrand in michigan tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. >> and we could soon learn why the fbi raided the hotel and office of former trump lawyer and fixer michael cohen. the new legal ruling and what it means. that's coming up next. you're watching "velshi & ruhle." if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment.
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today a federal judge has ruled new york prosecutors must release documents relating to the fbi search of michael cohen's home, office, hotel suite, and safety deposit box. >> the request comes less than two months before president trump's former personal attorney is set to report to prison to begin his three-year sentence after pleading guilty to nine felonies, including tax evasion and campaign finance violations. >> joining us, nbc news investigations reporter tom winter. what is the reasoning behind this? why did the judge insist the prosecutors release it? who wanted it released? >> media organizations went to the judge and said, your honor, we usually can see search warrants after a case has been
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adjudicated. essentially, somebody has been either found guilty or pleaded guilty and they've been sentenced. look, as far as the prosecution of this, it's done. that chapter is over. and so we should be able to see some of the underlying documents of the case. typically that means the search warrant. the search warrant itself is probably only going to be about a page in this. it details specific things. there is going to be an affidavit part of it which is what the special agent for the fbi wrote, saying, hey, your honor, this is the reason why we have probable cause. essentially this is the reason why we believe we have the right to search michael cohen's home, residence, hotel room because his home was being searched at the time, and safety deposit box. >> say we get it. how heavily redacted is it going to be? wove seen pages of and pages of blacked outlines. >> what we know for sure, a person identifying information, such as e-mails, cell phone numbers, the number for the safe deposit box, all of that is going to be redacted. the next big question is, how
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much of the search warrant contains information that is relevant to ongoing investigations? that was one of the concerns the prosecutors, federal prosecutors here in new york in the southern district had when this first came up. the judge says, i want to get the prosecutor's point of view. in the judge's opinion, we can unseal all this. the judge said i understand you have ongoing investigations, you have things that should be redacted. provide me with a redacted copy. in a few months we'll see if we can reveal all of it. in the meantime we'll put out this redacted copy. the judge says i agree with the redacted portions made, and other redactions. that's a clue, stephanie, to your question we are going to see additional things redacted. it should be made public tomorrow. i would suspect, given what we know about the investigation, given what we know about some of the things michael cohen testified about, things that he's been asked about, how that might relate to ongoing investigations, i suspect we're going to see a lot of black ink
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tomorrow. >> thank you, tom winter, nbc news investigations reporter. coming up next. >> facebook says it has removed -- removed more than a million videos of the new zealand attacks. here's our question. why were they there in the first place? we're going to speak about holding social media giants accountable. >> but first, prominent economist alan krueger has died. princeton university where krueger was a member of the faculty for three decades said he passed away this weekend. he served as labor department's chief economist under bill clinton. he was also assistant secretary of the treasury and the chair of the white house council of economic advisors under president obama. mr. krueger was 58 years old. truecar is great for finding new cars.
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because the shark's self-cleaning brush roll removes the hair wrap while i clean. ♪ - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. joorl we have breaking news. a suspect has been arrested in relation to the shooting in utrecht in the netherlands we have been covering all morning. this is according to officials. they made this revelation at a news conference a moment ago. they did have the name of the suspect earlier today. the terror alert has been brought down from its highest level to its second highest level. we don't know whether an adjustment was made as a result of this address. police are still trying to determine whether this was a targeted attack. somebody who -- there are some reports around he may have been targeting a individual on a tram, or whether this was more broadly a terror attack. we will stay on top of that as we get more information. but an arrest has been made in the netherlands. >> but here we are three days
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later, three days later. monday afternoon, and i am still turning it over in my mind. something we talked about here on friday in the wake of the deadly shooting in new zealand. an attack on innocent worshippers at two mosques, that was broadcast live on facebook, and here's what happened. all day long we kept reporting that the social media site was trying -- stay with me -- trying to take the video down, but reup loads were multiplying like germs and facebook acted like there was no antedote. policy makers around the world are now calling for online accountability. and you will find in some countries like germany and the u.k. governments are now setting penalties for companies who fail to remove harmful content quickly. but here in the united states, let's be honest, there is very little reason for hope. even on the tiny est scale. i thought about this all weekend, wondering out loudoun my instagram page why the platform algorithms are so sharp, so focused on
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advertisers, their revenue stream that's correct they know exactly my shoe preferences so they know what to put in my feed that i like. but what they can't seem to do is find basic standards to remove people who have the ability to write f-u to me every single day. let's put you on notice. i realize advertisers are where you get your money. if you don't have us, the advertisers won't want you either. let's bring in nbc news reporter ben collins who has been covering these controversies plaguing social media platforms and our dear friend jeff jarvis, associate professor. ben, to you first. 1.5 million videos contain part of what happened in new zealand. is anyone saying let's shut facebook live down until we know how to properly use it? great adventure doesn't say let's all get on the roller
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coaster and if people fly off of it, we'll address it then. you and others warned facebook this could happen. >> right. we asked again on friday to both facebook and youtube who are the number one drivers of these things, i would say. what are you doing to stop white supremacist content? not just the video that went up, the aftermath that happened in part because of your platforms. but what are you doing to stop future attacks from turning racists into extremists because of your algorithms? they didn't provide new answers. they always went back to the p.r. terms and lingo and stuff. but they don't have specific answers right now and we don't know why. >> one of the reasons could be because they don't actually have a problem yet. they don't have a business problem because advertisers are still there. users are still there. and they don't have a regulation problem because there's no clear pending regulation here in the united states. all they have is a media problem. so why are they actually going to do anything? >> they know they have a problem. nobody wants to have a murderer on your site.
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nobody is going to say -- >> shout it down. >> i disagree with you there. we have a live camera to roll with everything to say people in the world don't have it. so diamond reynolds, because of facebook live, was able to keep accountability of the police man who shot philando castile next to her in the car. that gave her a power we never had. we weren't going to listen to her story. we weren't going to put her on tv. be careful what you ask for. when you say something bad can happen with a tool, shut down the tool, you shutdown all the good things that can happen with it. >> what about basic standards and practices? >> so, facebook was notified of the video. what they said on sunday on twitter they took the video down. the problem we have with society is people wanted to share that video more and more and more, 1.5 million copies. there is an excellent story in the washington post that went up talking to the uber product about the specific problems here. they did take it down. they have what they call hashes. they try to find the identifying bits of the video. the people who want to share change a little bit about the
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video to get around. it's a cat and mouse game. >> that's what i was wondering, once they identify the source -- >> it 's harder. the other thing in the washington post story, because we are not properly sharing the name of the shooter that meant it was harder for youtube to know what to search for. they were using different words. this is not an easy thing. we have a bigger problem in media as well. i'm proud that nbc news, you guys, are not sharing the manifesto. but what's her name, kellyanne conway -- i try to forget her name. kellyanne conway was on fox news today telling people to read the manifesto. that's disgusting. that's sick. that's doing his job. somebody said on twitter that the shooting was really search engine optimization for the manifesto. the shooting meant media wrote get it covered and he would get the notoriety he wanted. the goal wasn't social media, the goal was here. >> ken, talking about the hashes, is there a way, i'm
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assuming given all the a.i. these companies are developing, someone can say, this video, while something was changed, looked exactly like the video we were trying to take down? does the technology exist, should it exist, can youtube and facebook build it and say this is the wrong video, the bad video, identify all iteration and had get it off the platform? >> it's a dual prong. you have to use those hashes and content mod ritaer fluid in this. not just random contractors. >> the content moderators at facebook are among the lowest paid workers. >> the larger problem is this needs to be taken as seriously -- i always use this as an example because it's true and it worked. isis, isis, isis, they got rid of the isis stuff. how do they do it? they worked with law enforcement. they made it the number one priority from a security standpoint in that company, in both facebook and youtube.
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you can do this. you have to make it a priority. you have to override the politics of this. that's the "end game" here for a lot of people is to make it seem like this is some sort of political issue -- >> it's not a political issue. >> it's not a political issue at all. it should not be a speech issue if you tell people to go and commit a murder because it's part of -- >> no country in the world defends that. >> exactly. but there are people on the internet that think that's the right way to be. >> what about that, jeff? what about that issue? not everybody who becomes an extremist or is an extremist on the internet does so by posting video of them shooting people. but these people do find themselves a community that then translates into extremism and violence. >> yes. i don't think that people are such sheeple they're going to murderer overnight. >> people disenfranchise people finding a community. >> which in general is a good thing.
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it is sometimes a bad thing. what happens is -- here's another para docks. if you do successfully get them all off facebook, they also go into darker corners -- >> places ben hangs out. >> that's the problem. >> professionally. >> professionally unfortunately. you watch one youtube video, it's not that bad, right? you go in the auto play box, comes up automatically. it goes a little bit extremist, then the very extremist guy, you should go to gab and 4 chan and hhan. follow me in these spaces. that's the problem. >> it can never be fixed. >> we have youtube and facebook. >> fine. but those dark places are small and it's hard to find them. >> yep. >> if you're making the argument that facebook needs to have facebook live because images like that facebook live video that diamond was able to post when something terrible was happening, then facebook or instagram going to make a decision or are they, they are
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for users 18 and over? right now to the best of my knowledge, both of those platforms are welcoming children of all ages. and if that's who they are welcoming and if you're making the argument facebook live needs to be there, if you see a violent attack is happening and we should notify the public, facebook, you should lose half of your advertisers and half of your users who are under 18 because that's not content they should be looking a. he i agree it's not content -- >> they get a pass. >> i'm not saying they get a pass here. i think we do need research to ask how bad is it? how many times -- what we don't know is how many times was that video actually seen? there are 1.5 million attempted up loads, 1.2 million stopped at the gate. how much was it seen, by whom? was it a small group doing it? we have to balance this, steph, against what we have in the larger internet. a discussion we have all the time. no, facebook is not the internet. google is not the internet. what it has done to them in regulation has an impact on the speech of the population as a whole. >> okay, fine. don't we talk about how public
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discourse and civility has gone out the window? part of that is because we're abandoning basic standards of civility. >> part of that is the business we are in right here. i don't say msnbc because you guys are nice and i like you all. there's a certain network a few blocks away that really manufactured hate and fear in this country. to my mind, fox news is the single cause -- singular cause of this kind of hate and discourse. eight you don >> you don't watch -- >> i watched my own family members -- what we need isn't journalism, but mass psychology. what are we covering? their anger. their desire to see things like this. it feeds a desire that already exists. that's the problem. >> if you take this to 13-year-old girls -- you can take politics out and there are 13-year-old girls out there that are getting attacked by their classmates on social media sites and it's causing a rise in
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suicide among teenage girls. so you can stick fox news out the window. if facebook and instagram want to be the megagiants that they are and bring in millions and millions of dollars, then we can ask them to simply be better because when someone -- >> i agree with that. >> steph, steph -- but we have to -- stephanie, we have to agree not everybody in america is going to agree that being better means censoring, right? i don't know that -- i don't think we have agreement at this table, let alone in society that being better means don't post stuff. >> we can't say to one another, i disagree with one another, f-off. >> f-off is constitutionally protected speech. >> walking down a street in new york city you can say that. bloomberg is a great example. on a bloomberg terminal -- >> that's a private, closed circuit situation. we can't make determinations about public platt forms. the question, of course, becomes are facebook and youtube subject to that. i don't know why we think we
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shouldn't be able to say that. it's not the same thing. swearing at you or swearing at me on social media, which happens an awful lot, is just not the same as posting a murder of 50 people. it's not in the same category. >> i'm not saying they're the same. i'm not even comparing -- >> we have conflated them in this discussion. >> i'm sorry if they have been conflated in some sort of way. >> i'd rather not have anybody swear at us on social media, but that's their right. >> can we discuss this realistically? what we have are dollar store people on fooks news who realize they can make a living out of this. they can go and they can have -- they can say the things people won't say on fox news because they'll get suspended, like a certain person last weekend, right? what they'll do is take those things and they will -- the algorithm will taylor that content to people because they know that sort of thing -- that sort of inflammatory rhetoric is watched all the way to the end.
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the dollar store to that person, maybe i should start inciting people a little bit. that's where the larger scale problem is, right? we have to stop like incentivizing extremist behavior on the internet from a personal standpoint and also more importantly from a business standpoint. >> okay. he's separating the two. i do not want to conflate both. i'm so sorry -- >> they're both issues. they're just different issues. >> i agree. >> guys, thank you very much. jeff jarvis, ben collins. all right, we're going to be right back.
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welcome back the "velshi & ruhle." today is the deadline for 81 trump associates to submit questions for the house of judiciary committee. earlier this month, jerry nadler was asked for those documentations to provide insights of trump's abusive of power. >> donald trump jr. and eric trump and his son-in-law and jared kushner. documents have been requested from the trump foundation and the inaugural committee and kushner's companies.
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joinings us now our mimi rocah. what's your sense of what the committee is hoping to get from these requests? it is a lot of stuff they are asking for. >> it is a lot, frankly there is a lot of leads here for them to investigate. when you send out a subpoena which you are looking for is evidence, you are looking for more leaves about who else to talk to and you are looking to see what people send back. what the ent tities and people o have been subpoenaed, what did they send back and how responsive they are. that can be telling in of itself. who is going to be cooperative and who they'll have court battles with. which witnesses maybe appropriate to have come in next. those are the kinds of things in the first instance they'll be looking to figure out. >> nadler is just getting warmed
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up. many believe that robert mueller is wrapping up. does the house judiciary commissioner, does it defer mueller? >> probably not. it is possibly something that the house should be careful of and mindful of. i think mueller's investigators should have first priorities if you will. i think mueller whether he's wrapping up this week or ten weeks from now based on various speculations or things that we have been hearing, i think that he's far enough along in his investigation that there is probably plenty of things that the house could do and people they could talk to at this point would not interfere and i hope and i believe they are consulting enough with mueller that they know eachwhich of tho avenues would go down first. mika rocmi rocha, thank you ver.
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>> low i.q. stephanie. >> low i.q., at least i know his name is tim cook. >> that's the long version. it is 11:00 a.m. out west, i was joking obviously. 2:00 p.m. in washington where the white house is being forced to deny that the president is not a white supremacist. >> the president is not a white supremacist. >> this president condemns hate and bigotry and we'll continue to do so. people should feel safe in their places of worship. nobody should blame folks other than the evil and hateful shooter. >> the white house finds themselves in this position again. the new zealand terrorist called president trump a

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