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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  March 19, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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wins the race. just putting it out there. >> our viewers can sign up for the newsletter. >> that's does it for us on this tuesday this morning. i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. >> across the world good men and women still dream of sartitarti life anew in america, people who bring energy, talent and faith in the future. often they bring a special love of freedom because they have seen how life works without it. it helps to remember that america's immigrant history made us who we are. amid all the complications of policy, may we never forget that immigration is a blessing and a strength. >> former president george w. bush speaking during a naturalization ceremony in dallas yesterday, a rare
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appearance. i think it's quite fitting he chose that one. >> what a good message, too. it sounds an awful lot like ronald reagan's farewell message to america, once again talking about america's strength, unlike any other country on the planet, america's strength for over 240 years. >> exactly. >> it's come from immigrants from across the world. >> well, good morning and welcome to "morning joe ". it's tuesday march 19th. along with joe, willie and me, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, republican strategist and analyst susan del percio, column ist for "time" magazine, eddie glaud jr. and from axios, jim
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vandehei. >> up knoyou know, the last few have made me appreciate barack obama and george w. bush so much more. a lot of people talked about barack obama as a man, a husband, a father, real conservatives. it does put into sharp belief how important character is in our presidency. >> and the impact of immigration on our history. it's who we are. we keep forgetting that as this president takes us down this path. we don't but the collective we. he's trying to gets this country to forget what its bearings are. >> it's not just a scene out of "the godfather ii" it's not something that just happened in the 1800s, waves of italians or
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irish, it's still happening. you go to silicon valley right now, my gosh, the technological engine of the world and that has, in effect, been created by those who emigrated to america. they have changed the way we lived, they've changed the way we think. they have changed everything. >> of course they have and they continue to do as you point out, listening to george w. bush yesterday, it's amazing how far we've come, another republican president who tried to get through comprehensive immigration reform, who was seen to be too lenient. he also talked about dialing down the rhetoric. it reminded me of his jewel i didn't -- eulogy at john mccain's funeral. when he goes out in public and he doesn't it a lot, he picks his spots but he likes to remind the country in his own way that
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we're better than the way we're behaving right now. >> mike barnicle, the lie that donald trump and many of his cabinet officials like to spread is you have to agree with us on immigration or else you're for open borders, you're for lawlessness. i didn't great with george w. bush's pathway to partisanship and the bipartisan approach he had in 2006, but as president bush said in that speech, let's debate the policy. let's figure out the best way to move toward comprehensive immigration reform, but let's not ever for get that immigration is america's strength. >> yeah. you know, joe, there are a couple moments there in that speech, we played one clip that clearly pertinent to what we're talking about, but the larger element is he's a former
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president of the united states and he understands role of a president as the head of the state, the head of the nation. we now have in contrast the sitting president of the united states who has very little knowledge of the function of the presidency. george w. bush and even barack obama speed to the needs to calm the nation so that people understand what we're doing, people understand immigration, people understand that it is the life blood of the nation and always has been. unfortunately we don't have a president who understands the role of the presidency today and i think george bush's function yesterday was to remind people how great it is to have a president who does understand it. >> and how great the presidency can be. but this president meanwhile kept up his twitter attacks. this time on special counsel robert mueller yesterday. you'll remember last month "the
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washington post" poll asked who are you most likely to believe, the special counsel or the president. 56% responded robert mueller and 33% donald trump. but the president is seizing on a different set of numbers and tweeting that a suffolk/"usa today" poll found that 50% of americans agree that robert mueller's investigation is a witch hadn't and tagging msnbc adding very few think it's legit. we will soon find out? but the poll question was phrased this way -- president trump has called the special counsel as ves a witinvestigatih hunt and sad he's been subjected to more investigations than previous presidents because of politics. do you agree? and responding geoff garin,
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"this is a badly written poll question because it is asking two different things at the same ti time." >> that same poll shows over 50% in the past, people feel donald trump is not honest. forget about compound sentences, you know, it was a compound question. they asked everything including do you think you might be going to thanksgiving at aunt delores' next thanksgiving and would you like roast beef with gravy on the side and would you like to go see the packers?
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yes or no? >> there's no doubt the other poll is better worded and at the end of the day the reason the president probably tweeted 50 times over the weekend is that there is this worry at the white house, has been for two or three weeks, that the mueller report is coming. for some reason it hasn't come yet. what's happen with the mueller report, what's happening on capitol hill is obviously weighing on the president. people who talked to him over the weekend, it's funny, like some said he seemed in pretty good spirits but then you look at his twitter feed and he's lashing out of reruns of snl, lashing out at every democrat, he did that awful tweet about john mccain. so who knows. >> by the way, it's interesting, eddie glaude, you don't want to
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get anyone trouble but we want to speak out forcefully against that horrific behavior. but are you going to be going to your aunt delores' for thanksgiving dinner? >> no. i don't have an aunt delores. >> what about the gravy? >> you must always have gravy. particularly with stuffing. >> always go with the gravy. you know, i wanted to read you this, eddie. "the president draws energy and purpose from maliciousness and tra transgressive acts from attacking the weak, the honorable and even the dead."
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up kno you know, eddie, we're going to be showing a poll that evangelical christians still remain loyal to this man. and if so, again, there is nothing consistent with the teachings of jesus. when i say nothing, i mean absolutely nothing in the sermon on the mount, especially the story of the good samaritan. you can look for all of the red letters in your king james new testament bible and you will see that donald trump, the wave he liv -- way he lives and the policies he pursues is the antithesis of those words. >> it's fascinating and it reveals they're willing to close
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their eyes to the teachings of christ, that in order to -- to in some ways support a president that they think will pursue their agenda with regards to judges, with the moral what's fascinating though that it's always been the case that it wasn't jesus's close relationship with the roman government that got him on the cross, but that it was his willingness to challenge power, his refusal to in some wayside with the rich and powerful over the poor and vulnerable. when you talk about matthew 25, in some ways that ministry that has in some ways transformed the world, it's not a ministry that is really designed to produce it's not a ministry designed to generate what some scholars have
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called con so i tweeted out that this reveals a crisis in white evangelicalism, but it also reveals the history of white evangelicalism, joe, and is deeply troubling and problematic. >> when you talk about matthew 25, as we continue the eddie glaude hour of power here on "morning joe," you talk about matthew 25, that's not like something that jesus coughed and -- that is the center of what jesus says. his disciples asked him house of representatives do we get to heaven, how do we sit on the right hand of the father and jesus says give a couple of water in the masters' name, feed
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the hungry, clothe the neighborhood. it's basically bring comfort to those who need comfort and hope to the hopeless. you look at that which is really the cornerstone of jesus' ministry and then you look at stories like "the good samaritan and then you read the beattitudes. as someone who grew up in the van jel call church and still considers it my home and still considers the fact that donald trump still is saying he does not need to be forgiven by jesus christnd he's ever it is the and hit ses and chamblee, georgia, i can tell you a ain'ting to i
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ever lefrd in those kuches. if i still don't get it, mika. >> i don't either. >> president trump continued to tweet a string of grievances and attacks as the "new york times" looked to explain the weekend's 50-tweet tirade. people who spoke with mr. trump over the often on the weekend said he appeared to be in good spirits but also said he appeared to be a little aimless and the outpouring was delivered with a lack of structure. >> sounds like a teen-age boy. what do you mean, you've taken oaf "fortnite"? i'm going to start tweeting, ma! >> yeah. >> according to the "times,"
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trump's advisers have shared with him data, showing the republican senator john cornyn of texas shared this last night, "tweet others how you want to be tweeted," adding "good advice." >> susan percio, even the rb senators are saying enough, don. >> well, they're actually not saying enough in my opinion, joe. they didn't understand up to his comments on jackson he goes after mueller and mccain, men of character, washhe is void of values. he's goes after thos two men who
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served their country, where he believes the country is there to serve him. and most of all, they are american heros and he was a coward who can even remember what foot the alleged bone spur was on that he used to avoid vietnam. i think he's a coward and all of this is spinning out of control. >> the president of the united states and leader of the free world seemed to be driven by lack of structure. the john mccain thing is so weird and so clearly an act of projection of a man who has been lauded and praised the last couple of months. if you don't want to go and
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honor him, that's your right but to go and repeatedly offend him, what's going on there? >> a lot of people indicate tweet storm this weekend, did it happen because he found out something about the mueller report, did some, tra extraneou element upset him and cause him to tweet all the vile things he tweeted this weekend? it might be simpler than that. it might be that he is just an empty human being and this is who he is. these tweets are who he is, having nothing to do with anything triggering an emotion to tweet, it's just who he is. and, sadlyly f for this country he's president of the united states. >> kellyanne conway dismissing her husband's concerns about
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donald trump's health. on sunday night conway wrote simply "his condition is getting worse" clearly referring to trump. george conway's latest criticism came after the president posed 50 tweets, criticizing the mueller probe, "saturday night live", which was a rerun. here's what kelly told reporters when asked about the tweets. >> reporter: your husband has been tweeting his concerns about the president's mental health? do you agree with them? >> no, i have four kids i was getting out of the house this
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morning so i didn't see them. >> and brad parscale writes "we all know that @realdrft turned down mr. kellyanne conway for a job he desperately wanted. he barely worked at the justice department. >> they all have the same comebacks. you're just jealous -- when i was criticizing marco rubio or sean hannity. no, i'm kind of happy with the life i'm living right here. i don't need their lives at all, i don't want their lives at all. in this case george conway because he has character would never want to work for donald trump for one second. in fact, he would be incapable of working for george conway.
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but, mike barnicle, come on, as my grandma would say, this really takes the rag off the churn. and it does because i'll bet eddie's grandma said that, too, this really takes the rag off the churn and it does because this is the stuff that kellyanne conway tells george conway at night. how do i know that? >> i've seen her in realtime. >> i know that because this is the way kellyanne conway would talk to us when she thought donald trump was going to lose the election. go into the green room, she would say it on set, she denied it. and then a spate of books came out saying that's exactly what she did. her husband is a stenographer for her. >> you clearly remember election day morning kellyanne conway was with us on this program on the morning of election day and
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after her appearance was walking out with her on a commercial break, i was trying to leave to go to laguardia -- >> of course you were. >> mike. >> i said i'll bet you'll be glad when this is over, kellyanne. it's got to be some experience. she looked at me and said, oh mike, this was just like spending a semester abroad. she thought they were going to lose. so i don't know whether she's relating tore coming home from work you're not going to believe what happened today and this would trigger one of his tweets. that we won't know. but jim vandehei, tweet from the campaign manager about kellyanne conway's husband, i don't know why i maintain some level of shock about the internals, ridiculousness of the trump administration but that was kind of shocking to me. what is going on here? >> of all the subplots in this weird drama, the whole kellyanne conway thing is so bizarre.
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the fact that the press is weighing in on it is bizarre. in some ways it's everyone pay attention to the tweet when what people should really be paying attention it to is what trump is doing on facebook. once again they're pouring all of their money into facebook and all of their money trying to persuade people when people aren't paying attention. 30% of the people are getting their news on facebook. again like last election when people weren't paying attention to the russians and weren't paying attention to what trump was doing, he's use willing the this he's already spent more than every single democrat being candidate combined. this was the story of 2016. and the truth is nothing's changed. all the things that you could do on facebook, all the things that the russians were doing on facebook, a lot of that can still be done.
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might be more scrutiny, might be a little tougher but it can still be done. it's still the single greatest way to persuade people at scale for the lowest cost. when you're thinking about this campaign, pay attention to not justice twitter, on faked. >> i tell you what, mika, i saw it yesterday in technical about a debate i was having on twitter. not really a debate. i was actually putting out historical facts, facts that couldn't be debated and you can tell, people just read what they want to read, they go on facebook, the read the lies and at the believe the lies and that becomes their reality. so you ask why can donald trump lie as much as he does? and objectively or you can
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actually look at documents and so much of it has to do with faubz. he buys a lot of ads on facebook. >> and there's no stand. >> it's really going to be interesting at who history looks at kek ji and facebook and its impact on our country krascy. >> it's not going to be good. >> still ahead, new questions about the president's tie to deutsch like many things in himself life who has over blow his actual pum preel be joined by preet bharara who is out with a new book "doing justice." ♪ when you believe in things you
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stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. you know, come a general election, presidential candidates don't come to places like mississippi. they also don't come to places like massachusetts because we're not the battle ground state. well, my view is that every vote matters. and the way that we can make that happen -- [ applause ] -- is that we can have national voting and that means get rid of electoral college and everybody votes. >> massachusetts senator and democratic presidential
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candidate elizabeth warren spoke at a town hall last night and called for the abolishing of the electoral college. the senator is not the on 2020 candidate who has been in favor of a move to a national popular vote. south ben south bend, indiana maybe pete but
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but but buttej buttejieg. >> we know this senators and congress people would not be speaking out. in other words if they had lost the popular vote. it's a conversation for sure and it's i think a litmus test for a lot of these candidates. they're being asked about the popular vote, about the electoral college, about reparations, which elizabeth warren came out in favor of last night. it was fascinating. it was a window into my social life. i was watching at 8:00 last night, kirsten gillibrand and came back and watched elizabeth warren. if you're a progressive, these are people with ideas. they're talking about policy and that your engaging the voters. in most cases not sort of a cult
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of prnlt. so i think if you're a progressive you got to be happy with your choices. up can throw pete booutjeg in there. >> let's play your favorite game. what if george bush lost the vote and want president for eight years and what if hillary clinton lost the popular vote to donald trump and was president right now? so in effect, you would have at least 12 of the last 20 years a president that got into office losing the popular vote. tell me, how quickly would republicans have changed? it would be done by now. we would already be to a popular vote. >> you're absolutely right, joe.
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how do we say at home in the south? it would be in the bat of an eye. i think it's important for us to stand the origin of the electoral college, too. madison, who is the genius behind our system, also understood in terms of apportionment, in terms of counting influence in states that southern slave holding states were at a distransbecause "black folk" couldn't vote. if we didn't have the election tra because black folk couldn't vote in that time. so the electoral and it seems to me, joe, if we're going to get beyond this, we need to understand that and perhaps teak seriously the idea of getting rid of it finally, once and for all. >> and what if on this date in
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2002 the incumbent president of the united states george w. bush announced to the nation that we are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq. the war in iraq began on this very day in 2003. al gore was not president. >> no, he was not. we're going to get more "20/20" talk coming up. our next guest is fighting back against the notion that impeaching donald trump could backfire on democrats. form are senior adviser to hillary clinton will join us next on "morning joe." will joiic next on "morning joe." oo, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪
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cancer, epilepsy, mental health, hiv. patients with serious diseases are being targeted for cuts to their medicare drug coverage. new government restrictions would allow insurance companies to come between doctor and patient. and deny access to individualized therapies millions depend on. call the white house today. help stop cuts to part d drug coverage that put medicare patients at risk. a cfp professional is trained, knowledgeable, and committed to financial planning in your best interest. find your certified financial planner™ professional at letsmakeaplan.org. nick, nick, we need a decision. these days we all feel a little anxious sometimes. but if you could see inside my mind; you'll find i go to my happy place. see if we let tensions run the show up here, then our bodies won't perform at their best out here. wait, aren't we going to the sound check?
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the search warrant that led to the raid on michael cohen's home and offices will be made public today. the judge made the order following a request from several news outlets. the april 2018 raid sought information on cohen's portfolio of new york city taxi medallions and on the payments he arranged
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for two women to keep them silent about alleged affairs. cohen was convicted of campaign finance violations, taxi vags and for lying to congress. he's media adviser, lanny das and providing information and the truth about donald trump, the trump organization and joining us now former state department official and former advisor to hillary clinton, chip rhinious. good to have you both.
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>> a couple pronunciation problems. i've been mispronouncing your last name -- >> at 6:30 in the morning, i don't know my own name. >> it's rinous? >> it's rinous. >> i met joe in 2006. i remember vivid live. we were plotting and scheming and trying to figure out what -- >> and everything is going exactly to plan 13 years later. no one's listening to this. >> as the emperor said right before he got blon up on the death star, it is all proceeding as i had foreseen. and it not beto is if? i'm surprised you you''ve been
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getting butte gin. >> well -- >> it says more about me than it does about him. >> how irritating that he read a book that he liked and found out that the author of the rest of his books were in norwegian or whatever and had to learn that language. but we have thought he's been off to a rocky start. and he seems a little for the nks months, 11 months, 12 months is that we all want to know more, particularly the pete in the states are a better owe
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place when he gave he is answer about kneeling that isage or a clan slate -- i mean, what'sing from is experience has not on become unnecessary, it's become a flat out dirty word. i don't know if that's because having a record is a problem these days or if or if it's that people want to start anew. as huh historical matter, the democrats have never elected anyone older than i believe 54 in their first try. >> well, beto is 47. he's close to 50. buttigieg is the counseling
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opinion about donald trump as lack t in they needed to be qualified with experience and they needed to have character. it seems to me for some time we've been electing people who doesn't know how washington works and we've paid for it, haven't we in. >> we absolutely what. whether it's beto o'rourke or clara harrisor any of ten naem new hampshire i would say i'm not subbive about she certainly
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would have been a better prn for donald trump. a door knob would have been a better prn than donald trump. but once donald trump and the right wing and their machinery were done shellacking little hillary clinton, she was a different prn and that's in the i think people nod o sure she had baggage. everyone has baggage. if you don't have baggage, they're going to give you baggage. going to a kpeing itthat happened on the rab sood snoob.
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>> pult sn-- >> we haven't forgotten that. we were really worried in realtime. first of all, what do you make of trump's very strange, unhinged set of tweets over the weekend that seemed to be larger in number and crazier than ever, something that maybe something is going on. what does that pattern of behavior tell you? and, number two, would could be important seeing michael cohen's search warrant for the raid on his office today? >> first, i don't think i need to be a psychotherapist to determine that the president is deeply insecure and he's worried about something. and the way he lashes out, the way he acts out is going on a twitter balancender over the we,
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some 50 tweets. it's astonishing the way he's trying to redirect the narrative. it could have to do that the mueller probe is coming to an inflexion point where some of it may be read out. we may learn some things that that's of course the requirement under the fourth amendment. i would say also that folks should pay attention to the "new york times" posted last night about his relationship with deuts deutsche bank, and how he got them to do a lot of thanksgiving. they, tended credit to him in
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certain circumstances where it's not at all clear that the credit was why was there russian money in that bank? >> jeremy, that's a fascinating question. when you read it, you realize it was sort of a sim beot ek relationship, that deutsche bank, why did they continue to lend credit to a man who deflated assets, do you see anything other reason why they would loan money to him? >> they were trying to establish an investment banking business and trying to lead forward. and there is bribe bank figures by taking them to trips to mar-a-lago and it's really the
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mueller question that's out there. >> do you have any idea why barack obama and himself team seem to be supporting beto, were with his come pam ran i think the meeting with mr. o'roarke is not that unusual. i think barack obama is probably meeting with. >> who is asking and i would imagine, i would hope everyone is asking. he is has been someone who went through it. and in a little bit more cynical man a man, i know there are folks like dan phifer and john levitt who are all in the white house who are supportive of beto o'rourke. i don't know that they're with him and i don't know that it's any kind of official seal of
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approval. i think it has been with deval patrick and different people. we'll see. >> but he did, he hooked him up with bluff and a couple of others. but you haven't hear anything specifically about what that was? >> come back, great to have you on. >> any time. >> thank you very much. >> jeremy bash, thank you as well as always. up next, we'll talk to a member. house intelligence committee, congressman eric swalwell, who said it is his position to make sure the president does testify.
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"the wall street journal" reports that the national enquirer spent $200,000 to
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acquire texts between amazon founder jess bezos and his lover. people familiar with the matter say the source, michael sanchez, was paid a higher amount than typical for financially strained company media incorporated. the sources said as the tabloid began negotiations to buy the teerlgs from mr. sanchez in october, chief executive david pecker expressed reservationspublishing a er er . executives believed it was unlikely to sell well on newsstands. >> then i wonder who was driving the story. they're strapped. they're so underwater. i don't know if they're teeorring towards bankruptcy or
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not. >> just look that assad oo sprins story. >>er that sp for a story, get this, that they know will not sell on newsstands! i don't understand. >> mr. pecker was told by one of his advisers that the publishing the story might make it appear he was doing so on behalf of mr. trump. late last year, the publisher of the national enquirer admits to paying money ahead -- hush money
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to trump ahead of the 2016 election. >> susan del percio, let's get this straight. a company that's cash strapped, that is deeply in debt spends $200,000, which is more than they usually spend on a story for a story they know will not interest their readers. i'm curious what the southern district of new york and what mueller's team are doing with this organization that they gave a sweetheart deal to. >> i can't answer that but it does seem that they obviously did have a an agenda. we know the president does have an enemies lift. i was -- does have an enemies list. there's a whole lot going on that the scandal has caused.
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>> eddie? >> well, it just shows us that there's something very smelly underneath all of this, right? and we know for a fact at least in the public record that "the national enquirer" has engaged in some really shading dealings on behalf of donald trump. it makes clear sense to me but it doesn't pass the smell test. >> and doing it pass the straight face test. because again, you're already in financial trouble, you're giving a lot more money for a story than you give other people and your readers aren't interested in it and your publisher knows it's not going to sell on the newsstands.
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the on explanation is they were spending that money to retain the favor of donald trump. >> this is not example a scandal in j-rod's marriage. i'm starting to think the enquirer might be a little sleazy, i don't know. the interesting point is where did the $200,000 come from? and why did a business headed toward bankruptcy to pay we've seen this movie before. independent sure there are people pursuing that as we speak. coming up, preet bharara will joins set. plus "new york times" investigative journalist vicky ward is here with her new book,
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nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. i'm going to be there until he tweets me out of office. [ applause ] which i'm not counting on, at least today. >> all right. secretary of state mike pompeo acknowledging the reality of serving in the trump
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administration. maybe that was his way, joe, of sort of saying, yeah, i understand. i'm in this thing and it's crazy, with a wink to everybody. >> maybe so. >> how crazy. welcome back to "morning joe," it's tuesday, march 19th. we have with us susan del percio, eddie glaude jr., jonathan lemire and national correspondent and author of "the red and the blue" steve kornacki. in the morning consult tracking poll conducted half before beto entered the race and half after, beto did not catch much of a
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bounce. former vice president joe biden remains atop the field at 35% with bernie sanders at 27%, kamala harris and o'rourke receiving 8% each with elizabeth warren at 7%. joe, tell me about those numbers. >> we're very early in the process. if you went back to this stage of the 2008 cycle, you wouldn't be hearing about john mccain or barack obama, you would be hearing about how hillary clinton was going to be going up against rudy giuliani. listen, joe biden has incredible name identification. his positives, he's plus 65 net positives. bernie sanders still doing very well but, no, you're right, beto o'rourke stuck down at 8% but again, this is a marathon. 8% is where he starts.
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just like you have mayor pete, he's sitting at 1% right now. you can expect that to go up considerably in the coming months. but steve kornacki, i'm still surprised by elizabeth warren at 7%. and, again, perhaps -- again, they've just gotten out of the gate. it's going to be, you know, you got to run the whole 23 miles to win a marathon. and who knows, maybe she does just that. but as long as she has been out there in the spotlight, i'm surprised that somebody with as strong a message as she has, as forceful a message as as defined a message that she has is only at 7% when joe biden is up in the mid 30s just on name i.d. alone. >> the warren story's been interesting and if you go back six months, nine months,
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something like that, there was a lot of thinking that maybe warren getting in this case, that was going to be a dread scenario for bernie sanders, there was going to be a lot of overlap in the message, so geographic overlap but you see sanders has strongly established himself at second place. very interesting to me, she shares a big part of southern new hampshire with that boston media market. i think some of the reporting you're getting some of the suggestions you're seeing in the polling is there might be a concern among democrat being voters about the question of electability with elizabeth warren, of the idea that maybe we do like her, mabb we do like her message but is she somebody that can go that, fair or not,
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maybe that told some democratic voters that, hey, is this what we want to have going up against drath? >> what is that based on, though. you could say the same thing about best and a and if it's her heritage in that case of elizabeth warren, what is it that makes her different in terms of electability than other candidates? >> the thought would be that she made a decision no everyone else makes to really go after him preemptively. she went down there to oklahoma, she cut the video, he said a biggon going to put this issue to rest once a a that's a different trajectory than standing there and taking incoming from trump. last summer you had blaurch in double digits. now she's not there.
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there has been some sort of a change with her that you haven't seen in early polling. >> joe biden we all believe is going to get into this race. he's been flirting with it for months and months. it's him and beeny when you look at the top and falls off the able to kamala harris at 8%. >> yeah, i think so. we certainly saw he's still around 8% but it was one miss tack this is his first time in presidential politics. he's going to learn offs for
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casting a shadow on the sidewalk or whatever he's apologized for. he's apologized for everything. i'm thinking he's going to learn from that and learn that he doesn't have to apologize every time he hiccups and somebody with a blue check mark on twitter is offended by him. why joe biden, if you have -- i'm just going to say this. if you applied saber metrics, jonathan lemaire to american pock in the first 15 rounds of the draft. he ran in '88, '2008, 20 years apart. i thought he ran a very good he new policy better than inup there on the stage. he was very likable and yet he
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got 2, 3%. and both of those races, i'm just not show you're sure that he's going to be sitting at 35% a month or two after he gets into this ways. and what. >> i think you're right about biden. a lot of democrats has this rosie view of ngle joe. that could change once he's out there every day as a candidate again. he barely got 1% in one of those iowa caucus performances from his chief runs. and he's working on the working class, midwestern vote, ohio, pennsylvania, wisconsin, the corridor where biden is known to be popular.
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biden is going to get reasse reassessment again. he's not nearly to the left as a lot of his fellow candidates. he's going to have questions about the anita hill hearings, questions about the crime bill, and he's going to seem a little out of step with some of the energy on the party. he comes in obviously with huge name recognition. he will have to go out there and raise money. that's something about beto o'rourke, there are lots of questions and he has to fill in the blanks but he can do that. circling back to elizabeth warren, who is a candidate, by the way, the president and his team are salivating again, they feel they can make that contrast better than anyone, but she's having fund-raising struggles which is why there.
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>> that's surprising that somebody who has message she has is having fund-raising problems. but you go back to justice department, we had rule that you weren't allowed to criticize joe biden on the show, at least in jest. i think he would sweet through the upper midwest industrial states, it wouldn't be close in wisconsin, pennsylvania. the question is does he get there? how many self-inflicted wounds does he put on himself during the course of the campaign? it's not easy to forget some of the self-inflicted wounds that he inflicted upon him in the 2008 race and, again, that was, you know, that was 12 years ago. >> well, as an objective matter, he talks a lot.
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when you talk a will the, sometimes you're going to say things that will draw scrutiny. but i think the question a lot of people ask themselves is do we want to go back and get a taste of the obama years? and then they talk about electability, a guy from scranton taking back the states that trump won, all the way through michigan and wisconsin. and there's reports that he's been meeting for hayesy ain other words, she would be his vice presidential candidate, which would be an interesting dynamic as well. what do you have mack of that idea, eddie, the two of them getting out of the gate together, saying here we are, i'm joe biden and here is a
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fresh face to the party. >> that would be an interesting move. it would certainly raise the eyebrow of african-american voters and activists and some of the progressives in the party. one of the things about joe biden, we're still in a chain sinkle and the question is can a guy who is from the past actually move us forward? and i think of his positions over time. ifor us that people change but people have to give an account of how they've changed and why they've changed. so he's going to have to make that argument and make it compellingly. i think also with regard, we have to ask the questions how is gender working here in terms -- we have to begin to ask the question how is gender working,
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even though we know we're in the midst of this extraordinary moment. and lastly, there's a question we have to ask ourselves. everyone is saying if a centrist is elected, will a progressive mom nate. the question i've been asking myself is the actual reverse. in it will play itself out in the nature of the primary debates. >> we saw that with stacey abrams in florida. they went on to coming very close to winning their races. but i think one thing that's important is what we have to look at where the growth is with these candidates. you look at biden and bernie sanders, they're in the high 80s are recognizable. people have opinions of them. even elizabeth warren is in the
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70s when you combine their fa r favor -- that's probably where we'll see a different type of surge as people get to know nem and storm that opinion. >> if you look at the poll of favoritability, bernie sanders is plus 63 and it falls down to elizabeth warren at plus 38 right there. >> and if you look ahead to the general election, there is exactly one democrat from this roster of 4,000 candidates out there who has a positive favorable rating with all voters and that's joe biden. i don't think it's the fluke. i've been watching the a ro
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andio think think a lot of people don't believe that joe biden is going to be democratic nominee. often you hear that joe biden is sort of used as a way of attacking the rest of the field to say look at this crazy democrat, look at that crazy democrat, while the only sane one in the bunch is joe biden but joe biden has no chance. joe biden gets in this race if he gets traction, if he has staying power, i wonder if that will change and then how will it change those numbers? general elections he towers above the rest of us. >> and beto o'rourke getting a ton of attention these days. "the wall street journal" stated "the identity he was left is carving him up like a texas steak before he gets to donald
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trump. "the texans' problem is he looks ike like a will add to that he supportssongle harr. he applauds the green new deal but doesn't quite support it. the socialists and identity politics left are ready to carve up mr. o'rourke like a texas stake. he needs to show some courage or he'll be gone by labor day. >> wieyikes. this is interesting to watch. i do see a little bit of a media aberration here, whatever. front cover of "vanity fair." i don't understand how that happened. there are so many candidates i
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would put on the cover of "vanity fair" before this guy. but a lot of people believe in him so i'm glad he's in the race. joe, i am -- i'm waiting on joe biden. i know that he hasn't polled well in the past. i know that he has his challenges personally, but i think that touch of obama, that experience, that stature and, quite frankly, the crazy part and i put that in quotes because he's a even guy and he puts himself out there and says some things that sometimes are like whoa. that's just what we might need for beating donald trump. every single one of these candidates don't add up to someone who appears they can beat donald trump except for biden in my mind. >> as far as beto, we don't know yet how that's going to end up. >> he may emerge. >> kwe isn't didn't know that
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barack obama would be barack obama. we didn't know ronald reagan would come through in 1979. i remember my father coming home and saying i just saw the next president in ronald reagan. this is such a long process. i will tell you what the curse is, though, getting on the cover of "vanity fair," being highlighted by hope ra before you're in the race,the curse, interesting -- the claim is person going to meet the senate race is going to be able to meet the expectations, especially when he said he was exhausted on the senate race and went on this
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soul-searching journey. but he can grow. we seen candidates grow through the process. the saber metrics are not good on joe biden. >> i feel good about it. >> ronald reagan, like richard nixon, like a lot of presidential candidates, he has run before. he knows what it's going to take to win. and it seems to me the most important thing, steve kornacki, in my opinion and joe biden certainly doesn't need to listen to me or my opinion is he's running against a man with absolutely no discipline. the knock against joe biden on the campaign trail has been he has no discipline. >> it's all relative. >> you ask him two questions in an hour session and he will talk for the entire hour. let's just bring it up. i mean, he talked about convenience sfotores to an indi
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american in the last campaign. he said barack obama was unusually clean and articulating black man. those are the unforced errors that joe biden cannot make this year. if he have avoid the unforced errors and if he can be more disciplined, then perhaps he does have a shot to knock off all of his democratic opponents and ultimately donald trump. don't you hear insiders are concerned about that, the lack of discipline at times on the trail. >> that's exactly what it is, joe. if you're a democrat looking at this thing, i think some days you look at booididen and thinks
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is a slam dunk and then another day you think this is the biggest disaster the democrats could have. remember paul ryan, they interrupted him to try to be rude and they felt it was necessary after that first debate performance by barack obama. are democratic voters going to have that instinct, comparing him to trump, that's the guy trying to interrupt paul ryan, is that the guy we want on stage with donald trump? it's an interesting strategic discussion for democrats to have. >> all right, steve kornacki, thank you very much. still ahead some of the signs may be there but our next guest says he doesn't completely buy into the notions that the special counsel investigation will end any time soon. former u.s. attorney for --
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> april mid -- amid reports that robert mueller's report would be ready soon, with the sentencing of paul manafort, a trial date set for roger stone and news rk gates is still cooperating in multiple investigations. let's bring in u.s. attorney preet bharara. he's out with a new book "doing justice, a prosecutor's thoughts on crime, punishment and the rule of law."
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the reports are endless that robert mueller is just crossing the ts and dotting the is and this investigation is coming to an end imminently. we have heard it now over a year. have you skeptical? >> i am. but i got to say i don't know what the truth is. lots and lots of people have sat around this table and many other tables and kitchen tables around the country have been wrong when they predicted something that robert mueller would do. i find it odd that robert mueller would be wrapping up soon. part it have may be that the folks who are flapping their lips are friends of presidents or his lawyers who have a deep interest in him wrapping up
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soon. but sometimes people do leave organizations and agencies and it doesn't mean everything is coming to a screeching halt. as you pointed out, rick gates, who is an important figure in this, has been labelled as someone cooperating in multiple investigation. that doesn't sound like he's wrapping up. of course in three hours i could be proved completely wrong. >> they asked the court for an additional six months and were provided an additional six months -- >> i think it was 60 days. >> 60 days, okay. >> one thing that is correct is that the investigative work is dying done and maybe the other investigations that rick gates is cooperating on are being handled ultimately by some other office and that explains it.
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but as far as i can tell, it's all speculation and there's not a lot of hard evidence of either of those things. >> one final question for me and then i'll pass it to willie. given what you know about donald trump jr., his testimony before congress, would you bring charges of perjury against donald trump jr.? >> i haven't seen all the evidence. as a former prosecutor, i don't like to second guess decisions. i don't know enough about what his intent was, about comparing the facts with the particular words he gave when he was testifying. but i do think based on his testimony and other things, i do think donald trump is in jeopardy. we're all in jeopardy because if something would befall donald trump jr., i don't know what his father is capable of.
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>> you have investigations in the house and senate, the southern district of north carolina, you have paul manafort in d.c. and virginia. it's a lot to sift through. people who have lives and kids and jobs, how should they be thinking about all these investigations? what is important right now and what may be important later? >> you're right. it's hard even for somebody like me who used to run the sdny, which i right a lot about in the book, to figure it all out. i think one thing people need to keep in mind is to be a little patient. every time there's a development and a report of one subpoena and they immediately jump to the conclusion someone's going to getsomeone's in trouble or someone flipped, often times end up being false. part of what needs to happen generally is people need to take a deep breath, be calm and
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rational about things, not substitute their political preference that donald trump be removed from office for evidence and facts and it may be the case and donald trump i think everyone says i don't like this guy, lock her up or lock him and that puts us in a bad position. >> let's talk about the southern district of new york whe. what is the legal peril for donald trump? >> the key peril when he said campaign finance for which he
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pled guilty, he said he did that in coordination of the individual one, everyone's favorite pet name for the president of the united states. the court accepted the allocution and the southern district of new york endorsed that conclusion in one of its documents it submitted to the court. that sass to me given that i know that they believe that donald trump was involved in that crime, which makes us dangerously close to the conclusion that if donald trump were not the president of the united states, he would be under indictment. that's a and there are other allegations you hear about in the paper relating to the inauguration committee and the trump organization and given what we know about how the foundation has been run and the new york torattorney general's
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office has brought a claim about at that. >> so you believe the president cannot be indicted while in office. do you have believe he could be in trouble when he leaves office? >> i believe the policy is very clear. you can have a constitutional argument about whether it's a good policy or is smart but robert mueller is going to feel himself bound by that practice and policy and the southern detective, i would have felt myself bound by that practice and policy. but once you're not president, then anything can happen. >> what's the statute of limitations on those things? >> it depends which thing you're talking about. for a lot of the things in play, probably five years. >> you were just talking about donald trump jr. and among other things you said that baked in the cake is, quote, johnson what his father is capable of. in terms of bob mueller, the salt are you surprised it hasn't
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had more of an impact? he has been under constant assault from day one. >> well, bob mueller is a pretty special guy. you and i were object talking about this before coming on set. i always say about bob mueller, put him on a pedestal. of all the people in the country you could have put on there are 320 million people in america that could have replaced him and instes republicans and democrats extended the law two years for that within guy and the fact that he can be swift boated in a sense by people like donald trump and his lackies who have before this presidency had nothing but reference and respect for bob mueller, tells you something about how he puts
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himself head down, he doesn't speak, he doesn't respond to torts and taunts and it probably serves him well. >> we're going to tack a quick break and talk more about your book "doing justice." e about yor book "doing justice. the matters.ar... introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger, it's the right gear. with a terrain management system for... this. a bash plate for... that. an electronic locking rear differential for... yeah... this. heading to the supermarket? get any truck. heading out here? get the ford ranger. the only adventure gear built ford tough.
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welcome back to "morning joe ou i have to ask you the most important question of the morning. do you watch "billions"? >> i'm not caught up. i love the show. i love the lead is played by an indian-american actor, who is a very colorful district attorney in the southern district of new york. it's highly fictionalized. >> just like "house of cards," right? i can understand why you would say that. you're obviously not the
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inspiration for his character, correct? >> i believe that we share the same position. i am -- reality, i'm on television. >> i just have to go back and ask you about the justice department guideline. and i promise after this questions only about the book, everybody. but i think you and i would -- if our constitutional law professor had asked us in class about what we thought about a president not being able to be indicted while he's a sitting president and that if ewhe got reelected, some of those statutes of limitations would run so by being reelected you would escape justice, we could be twisted around to the point -- you know where it ends.
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what if a president shoots somebody on fifth avenue and he has a congress that won't impeach him, do those guidelines allow a president to get away with murder? >> i don't disagree that there's a very good argument that a constitution does not preclude a sitting president from being prosecuted, indicted and convicted. probably the better argument, i'm with you, also on the seriousness of the crimes. it seems unbelievable -- i think if he has beyond a reasonable doubt, would he rip the country apart on the basis of a charge that would have to rely on flouting a department of justice policy? i don't think so. if on the other hand there was evidence beyond a reasonable doubt had in fact shot someone
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in cold blood on fifth heaavenui think they would. >> if this is the end game of the mueller investigation, would he receive written responses to questions, would you be surprised that he wouldn't kp ask for more than that? >> i in prosecutor, including the special counsel, who is the best among us, would want direct testimony where you can ask follow-up questions and you can get behind the lawyers you take what you can get. sometimes there's a reason to cause someone to posture and not want to talk. on top of which you could sort
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of muck that up for a long period of time and have to go to court. i think whether or not bob mule are -- mueller is on the cusp of being finished, i don't think he needs this going forward in his life for personal and professional reasons. if it was going to be a hard-fought court battle to get answers from the president for months or years, he probably thought it wasn't worth it. >> so the southern district is now under a spotlight like never before but it's always been one of the hottest u.s. attorney offices in the country. what did you find your most challenges in managing that office? you were under press scrutiny. what do you feel like "doing justice" has turned out to be all about? >> as i say in the book, i talk about the southern district of new york, which i think is a very special someplace that i worked. people knew my name because my
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fame was on all the indictments and i announced kays because they all and we had this phrase that i inherited when i was in the office, this mission statement, which was your job is one thing, to do the right thing in the right way for the right reasons every day, just that no matter what. and i heard that when i was a line prosecutor when i was young, i told that to the prosecutors in my office. my successor i'm certain is telling that to the line prosecutors there. so the challenge is to make sure that you don't get -- you don't feel, you know, let down by the fact that you're dealing with the worst of humanity every day. you're dealing with people who rob and steal and terrorize americans. your job is to do the right.
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the job is not to put people in prison, it is to do justice. when people are talking about truth not being think about how. >> randy: in the book you address sentencing and it's one of the great misnomers in the american justice system and it goes in waves. in the early 90s there was state reforms and federal, we now have mandatory minimums. what can we do to even out the disparities in the federal justice system? >> i think it's good to talk to them. sometimes on some things with respect to mandatory minimums, people thought you could never make more there's this inherent
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tension between one of uniformity and consistency of sentencing around the country. if you're arrested in oregon or in new york, you should face the same sentence and they talk about individualized justice, you look at the particular person, what they have done and those two things are intention, which are kind of hard to involve. >> criminal justice reform is one of the rare places where the white house and democrats and congress have gotten together. the book is doing justice, a prosecutor's thoughts on crime, punishment and the rule of law." >> thanks so much. still ahead on "morning joe,"
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we'll be joined by vicky ward. she's out with a new book about jared kushner and ivanka trump and what she calls their unprecedented and dangerous rise to power. that's next on "morning joe." jo. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal?
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prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. joining us now investigative reporter for "the new york times" vicky ward. she's out today with a new book entitled "kushner, inc. gree gre greed, ambition, corruption."
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sarah sanders writes "it's sad but not prizing the media would spend time promoting a book based on shady anonymous sources and false information instead of all the incredible work jared and of accurate. vi welcome back to the show. your reaction to the white house response to your book? >> oh, my goodness. you guys get this all the time, right? i mean it's a variation on a theme. you know, i'm just amazed that sarah huckabee sanders had the time to be looking at my website. two months ago when it was hacked. it's classic. and so, you know -- >> but they say, only anonymous sources. >> that's not true. >> and families statements. >> number one, that's absolutely not true. former prisons bureau chief is on the record.
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mark carullo who went for communications on trump's legal team is on the record. really close kushner family friend who took over kushner family businesses is on the record. i could go on. as you know, mika, when you report on this white house, the three people, the family business now running it, jared, ivanka and the president, are extremely punitive and every book about this administration has really been based on anonymous sources. the only way to kind of get around that is to make sure every scene is supported by multiple source. you're not just relying on one person's account. >> we have a secretary of state in mike pompeo but in many cases jared kushner is the face of american foreign policy. he's the man in the room. sometime the only man in the room.
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>> that's certainly what rex tillerson thought. he made the mistake thinking he, rex tillerson was secretary of state. >> i'm thinking about one example most recently when he visited with the crown prince of saudi arabia. there was no press. they are chummy. they were friends. this was after the crown prince ordered the murder wordi iaccor our reporters after the murder of jamal khashoggi. >> rex tillerson found jared kushner irritating for the first six months of the administration. just because jared, you know, interfered and cut actual rex tn out of the middle east especially where jared was the saudis were giving money for his peace plan and jared had this financial vulnerability with the trophy building in new york. he desperately needed foreign
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financing for. so this is why he pushes for trump to make the united states first official visit abroad not to a country with shared democratic values but to the kingdom of saudi arabia, with this lovely mbs as the crown prince. and that summit was all about cooperation in the region. days after it, rex tillerson and jim mattis then the defense secretary were horrified when they heard out of the blue that the saudis were basically and three other middle eastern countries were blockading qatar where there's an american airbase. that's our security at risk. they had no knowledge of it why? jared kushner was in charge of managing the relationship with mbs. >> one of the great cliches is jared and ivanka being moderating influences on the president. that things would be much worse if they weren't there.
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we gets stories after a hard-line policy is implemented the story come out that jared and ivanka registered their disapproval or did what they could to influence the president to tone him down. in your reporting or your book what did you fine in terms of the truth their influence on the president. especially the most damaging and influen influencing policies on this administrative. >> it's ivanka's shocking response to what her father said about charlottesville. i was shocked when i learned what she said that my father never said they were very fine people on both sides. you don't understand. i think that's very interesting, she sold herself as the moderating influence. she's given interviews, i speak to my father candidly and private. gary cohn again said to ivanka, when we were at the paris
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climate accord, gary cohn was desperate to persuade trump to stay. and he said to ivanka, i'm running around, bringing in all these business leaders, could you just go talk to your father candidly. and she said no. >> let me ask you this question. usually these sorts of books are often kind of thought of as gossipy book. >> yes, i get that. >> but you seem to have a bigger purpose here. >> i do. >> why did you write this? what necessitates us knowing this about this couple now? >> you know, thank you for asking me that question. i think these two people are particularly dangerous, perhaps more dangerous than the president because the president is, for all his picadillos in plain sight other than, obviously his tax returns and a few other things. jared and ivanka are kind of in disguise as we've talked about
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and the damage, the danger and havoc they play with the protocols that are being put in place in this government, in our government for decades to keep us safe have now been undone thanks to particularly jared's really dangerous freelancing and it's going take years to fix it. >> really dangerous freelancing, that's one way of putting it. vicky war, thank you so much. the book is kushncurkushne"kush available now. still ahead donald trump's 20 campaign manager goes after kellyanne conway's husband for questioning the president's mental health. we'll have his remarks plus a member of the house intelligence committee who is still deciding if he'll run for president congressman eric swalwell joins us on set. "morning joe" is coming right
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women still dream of starting life anew in america. people that bring energy and talent and faith in the future. often they bring a special love of freedom because they have seen how life works without it. it helps to remember that america's immigrant history made us who we are. amid all the complications of policy, may we never forget that immigration is a blessing and a strength. >> former president george w. bush speaking during a naturalization ceremony in dallas yesterday. a rare appearance. i think it's quite fitting he chose that one. >> what a good message too. again it sounds an awful lot like ronald reagan's farewell message to america, once again
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talking about america's strength unlike any other country on the planet. america's strength for over 240 years. >> exactly. >> coming from immigrants from across the world. well, good morning and welcome morning joe. it's tuesday, march 19th. along with joe, willie and me we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. republican strategist susan d delpersio and eddie black jr. >> you know, mika, watching george w. bush really -- i've noticed the past few years challenging years have made a lot of us, including myself appreciate george w. bush and barack obama so much more. and i know other republicans have talked about the example
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that barack obama said is a man, as a husband, as a father, real conservative. it does. it really does put into sharp relief how important character is in our presidency. >> and the impact of immigration on our history. it's who we are. we keep forgetting that as this president takes us down this path. >> well i mean -- >> we don't but the collective "we" he's trying to get this country to forget what its bearings are. >> willie, it's not just a scene out of the "godfather ii" where you have immigrants coming to america. it's not like something happening in 1800s or early 1900s waves of italians or irish. it's still happening. you go to silicone valley right now. my gosh. the technological engine of the world and that has, in effect, been created by those who
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immigrated to america. they have changed the way we live. they have changed the way we think. they have changed everything. >> yeah, of course they have. they continue to do it, as you point out. listening to george w. bush yesterday it's amazing how far we've come, another republican president who tried to get through comprehensive immigration reform, was criticized by some conservatives being too lenient on a path to citizenship and other questions like that. but he also talked yesterday about dialing down the rhetoric and it reminded me of his speech, his eulogy at john mccain's funeral where not a direct shot at president trump but pretty clear who he's talking about, when he goes out in public and doesn't do it a lot he picks his spots but he likes to remind the country in his own way that we're better than the way we're behaving right now. >> mike barnicle, the lie that donald trump and many of its cabinet officials like to spread is you have to agree with us on
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immigration or else you're for open borders or else you're for lawlessness. i didn't agree with george w. bush's pathway to citizenship for a lot of -- the bipartisan approach he had in 2006. but as president bush said in that speech, let's -- i mean let's debate the policy. let's figure out the best way to move towards comprehensive immigration reform but let's not ever forget that immigration is america's strength. >> yeah. you know, joe, there are a couple of moments there in that speech. we played one clip that clearly is pertinent to what we're talking about. but the larger element is he's a former president of the united states and he understands the role of a president as the head of the state. the state of the nation. that's what he's addressing in terms of immigration. we now have in contrast a
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sitting president of the united states who has very little knowledge of the function of the presidency. george w. bush and even barack obama in the few time that he has spoken publicly speak to the needs of the nation, to calm the nation so that people understand what we're doing, so that people understand immigration, so that people understand that it is the life blood of this country and always has been. unfortunately we don't have a president who understands the role of the presidency today and i think george w. bush's function yesterday was to remind people of how great it is to have a president who does understand it. >> and how great the presidency can be. but this president, meanwhile, kept up his twitter attacks. this time on special counsel robert mueller yesterday. you'll remember last month "the washington post" poll asked who are you more likely to believe? the special counsel or the president? 56% responded robert mueller and 33% donald trump.
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but the president is seizing on the different set of numbers and tweeting that a suffolk "usa today" poll agree that robert mueller's investigation is a witch-hunt by 50% and tagging msnbc adding very few think it's legit. we will soon find out. but the poll question was phrased this way. president trump has called the special counsel's investigation a "witch-hunt" and said he's been subjected to more investigations than previous presidents because of politics. do you agree? a pollster weighed in this is a badry written poll question because it's asking two different things at the same time. our respondents agreeing the investigation is a witch-hunt or trump is subjected to more investigations than other presidents. >> also inside that poll, of course, if you dig in deeper to that poll, jim, the numbers of who americans trust in that same
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poll shows very little change from the past. over 50% don't believe donald trump is being honest and about 35% feel that way about robert mueller. so donald trump seizing on this poll question that asks everything, forget about compound sentences, it was, you know, it was a compound question. they asked everything including do you think you might be going to thanksgiving at aunt dolores next year and if you would like to have roast beef and then after would you like to go a vikings game plus they are playing the packers. yes or no. >> that's a beautiful question. there's no doubt the other poll is much better worded and i do think most people think that the robert mueller investigations are fair game. at the end of the day the reason the president tweeted about 50 times over the weekend is that
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there is this worry inside the white house, has been for two or three weeks that the mueller report is coming. for some reason it hasn't come yet. what's happening with the mueller report, what's happening on capitol hill, what's happening in new york, is, obviously, weighing on the president. he knows that there's more to come. they've been bracing for it. they assume again it will come by the end of this week. probably won't since we've been wrong on all of this. people who talked to him over the weekend. some said he seemed to be in pretty good spirits. you look at his twitter feed and he's lashing out at reruns of snl. lashing out at every democrat. did that awful tweet about john mccain. so who knows. >> yeah. which, by the way, it's interesting -- i don't want to get anybody in trouble, but abby huntsman whose father is ambassador to russia, abby huntsman speaking out forcefully as i think we all should speak out forcefully against that
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horrific behavior, especially attacking john mccain. but let me ask you, are you going to your aunt dolores for thanksgiving dinner? >> no. i don't have an aunt dolores. >> what about gravy. >> always have gravy particularly with stuffing. >> always go with the gravy. i want to read you this. this was yesterday. the president draws energy and purpose from malice shouseness and transgressesive acts from the honorable and the dead. donald trump is not well and as long as he's president our nation is not safe. maliciousness and transgressesive acts attacking the weak and even the dead. we'll be showing a poll that show evangelical christians remain loyal to this man. i must say, again, there is
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nothing consistent with the teaching of jesus. when i say nothing. i mean absolutely nothing. in the beati turn des and the sermon on the mound especially the story of the good samaritan. you can look for all of the red letters in your king james new testament bible and you will see that donald trump, the way he lives, and the policies he pursues, is the antithesis of those words. >> joe, it's fascinating and profoundly problematic to see those numbers in the pew report. it reveals the bargain that many white evangelicals made with regard to the president trump presidency, that they are willing to close their eyes to the teachings of christ, that in order to in some ways support a president that they think will pursue their agenda with regards
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to judges, with regards to the moral questions that animate the religious right. what's fascinating, though, is that it's always been the case, at least in my reading of the gospels that it wasn't jesus' close relationship to the roman government that got him on the cross. it was his willingness to challenge power, his refusal to walk the corridors of power, his refusal to side with the rich and powerful over and against the poor and vulnerable. when you talk about matthew 25, when you talk about in some ways that ministry that has transformed the world, it's not a ministry that's really designed to produce core profits to mix my two books. it's not a ministry designed to generate what some scholars call constantinian christians, those christians deeply aligned with the roman power that they turn their back on what put jesus on the cross in the first place.
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i tweeted out that this reveals a crisis in white evangelicalism. but also reveals the history of white evangelicalism and is deeply troubling and problematic. >> when you talk about matthew 25, as we continue the eddie hour of power here on "morning joe," seen week days 6:00 to 9:00 and everybody said amen. amen. you know, you talk about matthew 25. that's not like something that jesus coughed and. just threw that out. that's the center, mika, of what jesus said. his disciples asked him how do we get to heaven, how do we sit at the right-hand of the father and jesus says give a cup of water in the masters name. feed the hungry. clothe the naked. basically bring comfort to those who need comfort and give hope to the hopeless.
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you look at that, which is really the corner stone of jesus' ministry and you look at stories of the good samaritan and then you read the beatitudes. as somebody who grew up in the evangelical church, still considers it my home and still considers the fact that donald trump still is saying he does not need to be forgiven by jesus christ. and he's never once needed to be forgiven by jesus christ. never asked for forgiveness. it is the antithesis of everything, at least for as bad as church in meridian, mississippi and pensacola, florida and chamblee, georgia that's nothing i ever learned in any of those churches. why do seven out of ten evangelicals still support donald trump. if you think judges, it sounds
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like somebody trying to gain the world but lose their own soul. >> still ahead the "new york times" is taking a look at what was going on behind-the-scenes during the trump weekend twitter storm. we'll get to that. but first let's go to bill karins for a check on the forecast. >> good morning. still watching the flood zone. we've seen a lot of the major rivers cresting and now they are slowly receding. lot of the damage is still -- people can't get back to their home yet. the water is slow to move out. over the next couple of days by this weekend most people should be back in their homes and can assess how bad this was and the pictures that told thor to there. it's not just areas of eastern nebraska too. we had significant flooding in areas of iowa. 267 locations still reporting flooding on the rivers from the river gauges and still goes up the mississippi, the rock, illinois river up through missouri. missouri river in omaha at its peak flow was at 5 billion gallons per hour. that's a huge number. how can you picture that.
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we figured out it's double the rate of niagara falls. so how much water was going over the falls? picture that times two. that's an example of just why the missouri river turned into a lake in areas of eastern nebraska. so worst weather out there today, sorry for anyone on spring break in florida over the next two days. it's pouring. it's chilly. it's going to stay that way. rain has moved into miami and fort lauderdale too. eventually a little piece of the storm will head up the east coast. anyone with travel plans on thursday, washington, d.c., baltimore, philly, new york city, airport delays are likely. breezy conditions too. thursday night we may even get some snow at the high elevations in areas of northern new england. so that forecast has changed. it was looking like that storm was off the coast. now right over the top of new england as we go throughout thursday night and friday. washington, d.c. it's clear, chilly but at least the sun is out. again thursday is when the rain moves in. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. when you rent from national...
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and now get $250 back when you buy a new samsung galaxy. click, call, or visit a store today. >> president trump continued to string a tweet of grievances attacks and fox news clips yesterday. as the "new york times" looked to explain the weekend's 50 tweet tirade. people who spoke with mr. trump on phone over the weekend said he seemed to be in good spirits but also said he appeared to be a little aimless and the outpouring seemed to be more driven by a lack of structure. >> sounds more like a teenage boy. wait, you took away fortnight? >> action junky. you heard of them. >> i'm going to start tweeting, ma. >> according to the "times" trump advisers shared with him data showing even his supporters do not like the tweet storms and that have advised him to act
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more presidential. as his re-election campaign draws nearer. republican senator john cornyn of texas shared this last night. tweet others how you want to be tweeted. >> there you go. >> adding good advice. >> susan, if jesus were here today, what would he say? what john cornyn said. tweet others how you want to be tweeted. republican senators are saying enough, don. >> they are not saying enough, in my opinion, joe. they didn't stand up to his comments on john mccain which was unfortunate and we have a miserable and insecure president in the white house who likes to project. what happens? he goes after mueller and mccain, men of character, where he's void of values. he goes after those two men who served their country, where he believes the country is there to serve him. and most of all, they are american heroes and he's nothing
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but a coward who can't remember which foot a bone spur was allegedly on to avoid vietnam. this man is just, in his core, void of empathy and values. and i think that's at this point all we're seeing as he's spinning out of control. >> mike, can i just underline what mika just said about the president of the united states and leader of the free world. he seems to be lakds by structure. he didn't have structure in his day. the john mccain thing is so weird and an act of projectiontion by a man who has been lauded and praised in the last couple of months. it's okay if you don't like john mccain, don't respect john mccain, don't want to go the hanoi hotel and not to mention john mccain but to go out of his way repeatedly to insult a man who is not here to defend himself what's gong on here? >> willie a lot of people on shows like this indicate tweet
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storm this weekend, it happened because he found out something about the mueller report, some extraneous element took him to tweet all the vile things he tweeted this weekend. it might be simpler than that. never mind the lack of structure in his life. it might be that he's just an empty human being and this is who he is. these tweets are who he is. having nothing to do with anything triggering an emotion to tweet. it's just who he is. er and sadly for this country and the world he's president of the united states. coming up on "morning joe," george con. way isn't afraid to voice his opinion at the trump presidency. his wife kellyanne conway isn't weighing on that but the president's 2020 campaign manager sure is. "morning joe" will be right back.
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>> kellyanne conway is dismissing her husband's concerns about the president's
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health. george conway posted a series of tweet that include an image from the american sick strike association diagnostic and statistical manuel mental disorders. conway wrote his condition is getting worse clearly referring to president trump. george conway's latest criticism came after the president posted 50 tweets between saturday morning and sunday night criticizing the mural probe, "saturday night live" which was in rerun, general motors and much more. here's what kellyanne conway told reporters when asked about her husband's tweets. >> your husband has been tweeting concerns about the president's mental fitness for office. are those concerns you share. >> i don't share those concerns. i have four kids and i was getting them out of the house this morning before i got here and talk to the president about substance. i may not be up to speed on all of them. >> president trump's 2020
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campaign manager tweeted also. we all know that donald trump turned down mr. kellyanne conway for a job he desperately wanted. he barely worked for the justice department. that's the chair of the 20 campaign. more intrick at the breakfast table for the conways. >> they always have the same. they always have the same come back. they are just jealous. you're just jealous of donald trump jr. really? seriously? you're just jealous of when i was criticizing marco rubio. marco rubio or sean hannity. no, i'm kind of happy with the life i'm living right here. i don't need their lives at all. i don't want their lives at all. in this case george conway, because he has character, would never want to work for donald trump for one second. in fact, he would be incapable
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of working for george conway. mike barnicle, come on. as my grandma would say this really takes the rag off the churn. and it does because, i bet eddie's grandma said this too. this takes the rag off the churn and it does because this is the stuff that kellyanne conway tells, you know this is what kellyanne conway tells george conway at night. how dmoi that? >> i've seen her in real-time. >> i know that because this is the way kellyanne conway would talk to us when she thought that donald trump -- >> exactly. >> -- was going to lose election. she would go to the green room, say it on set. she denied it. then a spate of books came out that said that's exactly what she did. she's doing it now. her husband, he's a sev
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stenographer. >> kellyanne conway was with us on the morning of election day. after her appearance i was walking out with her during a commercial break i was trying to leave to go laguardia but that was another story. >> on election day. >> and i said to her, boy i bet you'll be glad when this is over. this will have been some experience. she looked at me and said oh, mike this was like spending a semester abroad meaning with the trump campaign. she thought they were going to lose. i don't know whether she's relating or coming home from work and telling her husband you're not going to believe what happened and this would trigger one of his tweets. but jim, the tweet from the campaign manager about kellyanne conway's husband, i don't know why i'm maintaining some level of shock about the internal ridiculousness of the trump administration but that was shocking to me. what's going on here? >> i mean of all the subplots in
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this weird drama the whole kellyanne conway thing is bizarre. but in some ways everyone pay attention to the tweet when what's really happening and what people really should be paying attention to on social media is what trump is doing on facebook. where once again. just like he did last time around they are pouring all of their money into facebook, all of their money into trying to persuade people when they aren't paying attention, 30% people are getting their political coverage on facebook and fox news is the number one performing media site on facebook. so, again, just like last election when people weren't paying attention to the russians or paying attention to what trump evers doing he's using the other social media platform that we spend less attention on to a much greater effect. he's already spent more than every single democratic candidate combined. and this was the story of 2016. the truth is nothing has changed. all the things that you can do on facebook, all the things that russians were doing on facebook.
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a lot of that can still to be done. maybe more scrutiny. might be tougher. but can still to be done. it's still the single greatest way to persuade people at scale for the lowest cost. and so when you're thinking about this campaign, pay attention not just to twitter, but to facebook and what happens on google because it's the combination of being able to pilot exploit these platforms to move minds when the rest of us are paying attention to tv. coming up our next guest says he's confident that the american people will see quote every word of the mueller report. but what makes him so sure? potential 2020 presidential candidate and congressman eric swalwell is standing by and he joins the conversation next on "morning joe". "morning joe".
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top democrats from both the house and senate are asking the fbi and the director of national intelligence to investigate a florida entrepreneur's relationship with president trump. in a letter dated friday democrats from the intelligence and judiciary committees called for investigation into former spa owner lee yank citing credible allegations of potential human trafficking as well as unlawful foreign lobbying campaign finance and other activities by miss yang. yang made headlines earlier this month after mother jones and other out lets reported she was running a consulting business that offered to sell chinese clients access to the president and his family at mar-a-lago and you know human trafficking was one of ivanka trump's signature issues. a photo published in the "miami herald" earlier this month showed yang with the president
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at a super bowl watch party at his west palm beach country club in february. yang founded and later sold a chain of massage parlors that were reason. ly raided in a prostitution and human trafficking sting. that resulted in the arrest of new england patriots owner robert kraft. kraft denies prostitution allegations. now there are, i guess, videos that they had in this sting. i'm not sure how he gets around the videos. anyway, member of the house intelligence and judiciary committees and possible candidate for the 2020 presidential nomination, congressman eric swalwell of cal. >> congressman, thanks so much for being with us today. we're going get to all of that in a minute. i want to start with a fascinating clip i saw from bill mayer show this week where he was scolding the democrats for refusing to have the debate, presidential debate on fox news and talked about the resistance.
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and how the resistance goes back behind enemies. republicans will come on his show despite knowing everybody will root against them except for two staff members they bring along. he named you to the exception to the rule. you go on fox news because like republicans going on liberal outlets you want to get your message to people who may not agree with you. can you talk about that a little bit more, and how democrats need do a better job in 2020, getting outside of the bubble with their message? >> we can't ignore such a large audience. i go on there, first and foremost just so my parents can see me. they are republicans. they won't see me anywhere else. i get to brief the president every morning and evening. but also so many women come up to me across the country and say hey i love seeing you on fox news and then whisper don't
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worry i'm not a republican, my husband watches it and it's the only way i can watch. i don't want to dismiss people like that. what about bar tenders whose bar owner insist that's what's on. so you may be able to dismiss the host and president who they support but we can't dismiss the viewers. >> a lot of those viewers used to vote democrats a lot of times. >> a lot are democrats. you go through the midwest and south a lot of democrats watch fox news. we shouldn't make assumptions of who the viewers are. we should go in the fire and bring them out, bring them with us. >> so talk about the investigations that are moving forward right now in the house. . obviously, you know, a lot of people in middle america aren't interested in mueller investigation. aren't interested in the investigations of the southern district of new york. why is it important for you all to move forward with those investigations even if most americans just as they were at this stage of watergate aren't
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interested? >> the most important thing we can do is show them we can walk and chew gum. yes, we'll hold this president to account where he didn't have a stoplight, stop sign or a cop on the beat before. now it exists. we're up. dating the voting rights bill. we have a bill out on transportation and infrastructure to repair our country. as long as they know we're doing that too. and nancy pelosi taking impeachment off the table and say we won't lean in on that that gives republicans no excuse to come to the table to work on issues like r-or the future of work and making sure people have careers they can count on. >> you sit on the intel committee. it had problems under devon nunez. how is it different now under new leadership? >> we have a leader who wants to protect our democracy and not the president and in chairman adam schiff. he said i don't want to see a repeat of what happened in the last two years.
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i'm interested in your concerns and tell them to me and we can address them. i think he's genuine in that. we're going to pursue the evidence that wasn't pursued before but mindful this isn't about relitigating the 2016 election it's about hardening the ballot box in the upcoming election. >> you've seen a lot of evidence the public hasn't seen. i under you can't talk about it here or anywhere frankly around people who are not on the committee. based on what you've seen do you believe that the trump campaign colluded with the russians in the 2016 campaign? >> yes. >> do you believe the president himself colluded with the russians? >> yes. the president knew the russians were seeking to help him. so he went out as a candidate, invited them to hack more, did not tell his family not to take any of these meetings. was told by roger stone that wikileaks, a russian cut-out was also going to be putting out materials damaging to his opponent and he went on the stage and said i lover
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wikileaks. this is circumstantial evidence which in a court of law can be treated as the same as direct evidence. yes he's colluded. >> that's further. adam schiff was here last week and he said there's no direct evidence that the president of the united states ordered these things. in other words that he directly colluded but it's all circumstantial. do you believe the president directly colluded with the russians? >> i believe there's circumstantial evidence that he colluded. he knew they were doing this. his family was meeting with them. offers being made. he would publicly go out and encourage them to do it. who would be so dumb to invite the russians to do it on a national stage. >> you believe there's direct evidence? >> his invitation for them to hack more. that's direct evidence of inviting the home collude. >> that idea of collusion or conspiracy is heart of robert mueller has been investigating. >> there's a difference between criminal collusion or whether the guy did it or not. >> everyone in washington think the report is coming soon whether days or weeks.
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there's a belief it's going be issued, some discretion what can be released. the president will invoke executive privilege to keep some of it from being made public. what can you and the house democrats do to ensure what the public learns what robert mueller discovers. >> we'll see that report. i say that with confidence. for two years we went to the streets, town squares, marte ballot box. the american people gave us the power to see that report. the president is outnumbered congress just voted 420-0 to see the report. we have the legislative and judicial branch to backes up. to willie's question about solution. this president has been given an opportunity to sit down and say to special counsel under oath i did not collude. he won't do that. i infer from that and the overwhelming evidence and the state of evidence from others who said he did know russians were doing that he does have something to hide.
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>> southern district of new york, michael cohen pleaded guilty to a charge basically indicted co-conspirator. are there different levels if robert mueller found him guilty of collusion what would it take for you to see an indictment on a sitting president. >> i don't think any person should be above the law. what concerns me right now the president may escape criminal liability because he could win a reelection and the statute of limitations could run. if the policy sue can't indict a sitting president, we should rewrite the law. the statute of limitations can continue to run so once you're out of office you can be indicted. >> your writing the law? >> it's in the works. there's indictments waiting for this president. >> shifting gears, a lot of folks running for president. there's rumor, not a rumor, your
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running >> i'm getting close. i'll make a decision by the end of the month. >> why the end of the month which the next week? >> i want to do at any time right way and be ready. the reason i would do it is because i have lived a life where i saw hard work paid off for my parents so i'm the first in my family to go to college. i have two kind under 2. i'm paying off $100,000 of student loan debt. when i look in different neighborhoods i see that promise of america not reaching all americans. i believe i'm a generational candidate that can bring optimism to a city, a place that's very pessimistic and i have experience. in the last seven years particularly the last few on intelligence committee our democracy has been on the ropes. i know who our threats are from the outside. i know who was attacking the rule of law on the inside and i'll stand firmly and defend it. >> why might you not run for president? >> child care. >> that's a big one. >> is there an out for that?
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>> it sounds to most people you're leaning that way. you talked about medicare for all. that's a big issue. . most of the candidates have gotten behind that idea. do you support medicare for all? >> it would be a public option to drive down the pressure friechbt insurers. i hope we don't miss the opportunity to do what we do mist. find the unfindable, solve the unsolvable and cure the incurable. i would take the trillion dollars often years to invest in genomics, data therapies, target they are pies so you can look at every patient in the eye and say we have given the best shot in a lifetime to find a cure. >> some candidates as you know have called for an end to private insurance. do you zblee no. >> there's a partnership there, a public/private health care system? >> people want choices. a public option with support from the government for those who need at any time most will put pressure on private
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insurers. >> you're not in the race yet. but there's a photograph circulating, mercury news who dug it up in your district. this is your high school yearbook photo. how dare you, sir. >> i don't think i'm going to comment. >> my next question are those frosted tips. >> those are frosted tips. might be inspired from iceman from "top gun." >> congressman come back and leapt us know if you decide to win. >> coming up next beto o'rourke less than a week into his 2020 presidential campaign already getting criticism from many sides. we'll talk to the head of one conservative group about his new ad targeting o'rourke drawing comparisons to former president barack obama. coming up tomorrow another 20 hopeful, mayor pete buttigieg will join the program to discuss his campaign and some of the interests he's been drawing in the last couple of weeks.
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sense of entitlement. >> wow. >> that was a clip from a new ad from the conservative group club for growth as it takes on beto o'rourke. we bring on david mcintosh and with us is the managing editor "the beat." david, i got to ask you, were you as critical as i was at the end of the 2000 campaign when somebody dug up george w. bush's dui arrest? >> i was quiet about that. i think i was recovering from running for governor at the time. the key message here is beto is not a man of the people. he's really a guy out for himself and with the ad it shows that. >> you mean like donald trump.
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>> i adopt want to comment about donald trump. you've got a guy who is charismatic. we have to take him seriously because we saw what he did in texas. we were supporting ted cruz and he came out of nowhere. his background is white privilege. when he served on the city council, the main project was to demolish a poor hispanic neighborhood. >> did you use the term white privilege? did you say white privilege? >> the interesting thing about that, joe, after we ran that ad, beto embraced that and em plaining to people in iowa he has white privilege and he's running for president to help them overcome that. >>well, did his daddy give him $200 million to turn into a $9 billion -- i mean, we're talking about white privilege. donald trump is at the head of
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the class! >> so let's put it this way, at this point, we're thinking about the democratic primary and what we're trying to do is talk to voters in iowa who vote in the primary. so we use language and issues they care about. >> so if we're talking about the issues you and i cared about when we were in congress, it would be the deficit and cutting the deficit and the national debt. that's higher than it's ever been. donald trump added a trillion dollars. we have trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see because of donald trump. beto o'rourke after his first week on the campaign trail, but at least beto, at one point, was for entitlement reform for saving social security and saving medicare. donald trump is not for that. >> you know i appreciate beto, at one point, being for that. i doubt he's still for that because he'll get wrapped with a lot of negative ads. we've seen him with paul ryan for that grandmother being
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thrown over the cliff. i think what you're going to see from him is a lot of platitudes. you said it well the other day kind of a campaign based on a bunch of -- that doesn't make sense. i think what voters in this race are going to be looking for on the democratic side is who is going to reflect, for them, the values they care about and frankly they're going to look for somebody who can compete well against donald trump because they hate him and don't want him to be president. on the republican side, it's pretty sewn up that trump is going to get the nomination and it'll be a tough general election. >> so, tiffany, you look carefully at this field. it's a big field. a growing field. it'll probably get bigger in the next week or two when joe biden finally makes it official. what is the impact over the last week of beto o'rourke hopping into this race? >> well, i think -- first of all, i have to say my head is spinning that a conservative group is calling out white privilege with donald trump in the house but i'll move on to the democratic field. i think beto enjoyed a lot of
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generous coverage from the media. i think a lot of people did look at that and compare it to the amount of coverage that women received and people of color in this race received and there was something disproportionate about that. that helped drive some of his popularity. i find it, though, interesting when beto was in iowa, i don't think the ad prompted him. he's been talking about white privilege for a long time. i want to -- i think it was interesting and i applaud him for calling out his own privilege in a room full of people in iowa, which is 90% white and calling out some of the privileges he's enjoyed. when he ran for senate against ted cruz, he spoke very openly about the police brutality issues i think resonated with a lot of voters. not just voters of colors but all voters. >> dave, given the level of discourse in american politics, the level of lying, manipulation, personal attacks,
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avoidance of history, lack of character in the president of the united states, how, how can you put out an ad like that and further take this system into the sewer? >> first of all, i don't think it further takes the system into the sewer. >> you don't. >> just watch. you'll see ads more in the sewer. this is about a guy who said i'm for the people but his whole record shows he's not. he's for himself. he was for his father-in-law. >> you're talking trump now. >> no i'm talking beto o'rourke. >> it sounds like donald trump. >> why don't you face beto o'rourke. >> we are. >> we're talking about you and the ad. that's what we're talking about. >> the purpose of the ad here -- >> guys, one at a time, please. tiffany first then david. >> then susan.
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susan, i'm sorry. go ahead. >> we can pretty much endorse the republican nominee if it's donald trump. we know you're not -- the club for growth is not reaching out to democratic primary voters. the purpose of this ad is to take down somebody who, i'm asking now, do you believe is the greatest threat to donald trump? >> i think he's a serious threat. i mean, we watched what he did in texas in the race against ted cruz. he came out of nowhere. he's got charisma. you have to give him that. but what we're pointing out is what he is selling is not really authentic person he claims to be. >> they said the claim about his father and father-in-law is mostly false. they said the claim about city council and the real estate issue is half true. right. so in some ways you're trading in the thing we have been kind of awash in. >> hold on, david. >> sure. >> i want to echo something that mike asked. what do you see as your
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responsibility for the current state of our democracy? >> right. >> it seems to be simply that is deeply, deeply disturbing to me. >> all right. the responsibility is to tell the truth and i can tell you the ad is completely backed up by the facts. the records there. go look at the city council record. beto o'rourke fought over and over again to take away that neighborhood and turn it over to his father-in-law's development company. that's the facts. he can't avoid that. >> all right. final thoughts go to tiffany cross. >>well, i just think that the democrats have a good problem right now. there are a lot of good candidates on the left side of the field. i think, you know, again, i think the media has to learn their lesson in 2016. donald trump enjoyed a the lot of free coverage. we don't see that same amount of coverage going to candidates like julian castro or some of the other people. i would encourage everybody give everybody an e-mail amount of
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time and consideration this time around. >> tiffany, thank you so much for being with us. david mcintosh, i'm sure everyone wants to thank you for giving beto o'rourke equal time. come back, please. we'll see you guys very soon. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow. >> thank you so much. hi. this morning a paper trail. the house judiciary committee receives tens of thousands of documents related to its broad investigation of president trump, but that does not mean the administration is cooperating. >> the white house generally has been stone walling the judiciary committee. on these documents but they've been stone walling. >> this seconds ago the search warrant to raid michael cohen's offices was made public. offering an unusual insight into the mueller investigation and why the president's former

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