tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC March 20, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
>> oh! >> ouch! >> i will see you back here in an hour. >> that's very nice to me. >> ali, thank you very much. >> let's move on. it is 11:00 a.m. out west and president trump is attacking robert mueller again. >> when you have a great victory, somebody comes in and report, tell me how it makes sense. the day before he was retained to become special counsel, i told him he would not be working at the fbi. the following day they get him for this. i don't think so. i don't think people get it. comments like this may be a preview as the president goes into 2020.
an attack on the investigation portraying it as a failed coup could be the center piece of trump's campaign event and rallies. this strategy is nothing new. when all else fails, the accused will attack the accusers. to question the prosecutors motive. to attamaybe you can cast doubt the case. do the word witch hunt sounds familiar? these were dubbed non denial and d non denial. joining me our farebhara. >> he's the author of the new
book, "doing justice," pree preet bharara, it is great to have you. >> great to be here. >> i am happy that we'll be a able to bring this conversation to my show. the president is going after robert mueller and he's been doing this now for years and you write about it in the book and the strak tegy attacking accuse. when you hear it today, what is your major concern? >> people don't like to be investigated and people will ata atta attack. you get used to it. the tircdifference is this pers the president of the united states has the lajergest microphone on earth.
who'll believe anything he says. he himself says if i shot someone on fifth avenue, i would not lose a single vote. he oversees the opera invictus of the entire justice system. search heroically. it has more effect on people's public face than the rule of law then when ordinary person does it. ity it is a big deal >> how they plan to use their mueller report to yore advantage when it does come out. >> it does not sewhow -- it sho that the president may use it at alle alle rallies. >> the president is fond of referring to documents that say nothing about him. i am looking for a tweet where it says my book exonerates him. it does not talk about him directly.
>> you do tualk about him and yu talk about the justice system in the country and how it is supposed to work. i think it is the love better for the rule of law and what can be good and done with it. as long as you put people up charging and holding those laws. you talk about what happens to you in 2017. to get a few debrief on you about what happened, the president you said reached out to multiple times. >> in the seed up to your final. riepgt? >> what do you think he's too seen as -- >> i can speculate and and after
becoming the president, he called me again and i refused to take the call and in 22 hours later, i was anded to summit my resignation. it is a wrong thing for p president to jump over layers and not pay attention to what the appearance would look like. given the jurisdiction of that office it had received then and now. the president decides to he is state and say things to folks about people he does not like or investigated or people he likes not being investigated, whether it is michael flynn. you never know when it will help you in the future if you come under in query. >> why given the jurisdictiojur >> the trump's organization and
tround discrimination and varps props. as history unfolded, the southern district is now leap deeply at michael cohen. it appears involvement that donald trump may have had with michael cohen. >> matthew whitaker, the attorney general, the president asked him to call jeffery berman to get him to unrecolonies himself from -- did you think the president was worried of what you guys may be able to find and trying to do the same thing by cultivating you and what he did with whitaker to convince berlin which potentially unrecused which he can't do. >> the president wants people who are loyal to him and not loyal to the country or not necessarily loyal to the first amendment or even if you are fox news, just loyalty to him.
he has this view to be my replacement at the southern district. if only that person is investi., >> if you are still ats the sbny, what would you look into? >> non prosecutor kpeer and we'll be looking at things that's appropriate to look at and from important, looking at various aspects of trump horg-- of those things seem to be a lot on their plate and when presumably being so. no matter who the u.s. attorney is. >> did he come up at the s, t,
and y? and is his taxes are deplaiting on assets. we scrutinized with a lot of people. >> michael cohen, it has been cooperating with the sndy. we got a verse of the warrant for the race of his office and his home >> we can't see a lot in this poem. tllt of it is reacted. what do you see here. >> the section that's redacted remat relates to the finance campaign committ
committee. when you ask them to be reacted, you need a good reason. one good reason is an ongoing investigation. even michael cohen pleads to this crime entirety, there are other folks who are in the cross hairs including the president. that's why we are not charlie whited to see that yet. >> you talked about michael cohen, you talk about the clock witness, how tricky they can be. how they were not always entrusted by juries because they were not seen as honest people to begin with. you rank this. >> sometimes the decision to flip to do with your own partner in crime. it comes in response to debraille, president trump personal lawyer, michael cohen, he locally sworn locality to the
president. what is your message to those who look at michael cohen and monoford and the mueller investigation. gosh, you don't like to prtrust them. >> these are cooperations and moral issues and legal issues and the personal is when people decide because they care more about their family and instances and fascinating things and prosecutors had to struggle with this and courts have to struggle with this. >> we say in court when we talk about summation, you just coop neurosciencing testimony. so showing that she did not have
credibility in the past. look at what corroborates him and the incentives and motivations right now. >> now, we should find by the way, michael cohen does not have a corporation graham. he's looking for this relatively obscure possibility so he still provides evidence and information. if and when he's going to go the, people should look at it very carefully. >> he does not have a great record. that does not mean he can't be believed. >> you said on the record, you don't need -- do you think there are more indictments will be dropped? >> i don't know. zplo i guess. >> i am low to pak predictions.
i saw consensus view abrupted a week ago. >> can you comment? >> has it happens yet? >> and weeks have gone by. conflicts bit of inflammation. you have letters that was filed on the part of pick gates by the special council offi -- >> ed rosenstein, he's preparing more. you have a lot to things that teams to be going and the whole tape for roger stone. just seems a lot of work to be done. i could be wrong by this time eydie gorme. i am just not as sane of the
possibility. >> are wi ae asking the right question? >>. >> what open questions do you have that has not been answered for you. >> you can't ask those questions because they're not going to answer. we want to know if he are going to see president trump more and i had negative reaction with the minimal minister erdogan. >> there is a lot going on out there is that i don't understand. if he's going to be sort of ready of the decision he makes and later we'll have a debate about what becomes public and what does not. >> we have not talked about what most about what is mueller going to be doing.
>> tg very grk spark. >> i am talking about what bob loisviller is going to spruce. >> you said it is sbult to delid decline prosecution. james comey was put in this position and you wrote about it in the book. you said mueller you are damn if you do and damn if you don't in the situation. there are charges to press. those are going to be a center of the population who'll scream, what about hillary clinton, i don't trust you. >> if if you does not, there is going to be -- >> yeah, it is a big problem. separation of laws and facts and verses political reference. there are a lot of people chant "lock her up" and lock him upac
him up. >> i would hike to see the evidence put out. >> trust me the investigator. >> i have a worry that's becoming so politicize at the beginning o f this segment: >> causing people to in advance to not believe it. >> the funny thing is it will turn out to doctors. it is possible that the mueller report is not that danging to the president. >> it is possible, the president will say he's the greatest man ever. he pulled it out. he said that about michael cohen, he's a liar and liar, but ws respect of what he interpreted as part of -- the
president is able to get the people think that way. i think it is dangerous. we need get back to basic principles of truths. >> you are no longer a member of the dodge or government's prosecutors. what about those pointing to you and say how do i attack you? >> he called the president nuts and you responded on twitter pretty well put. >> with period after each tense. >> parallel his pung waictuatip. we didn't care if you are rich or connecting or powerful. if you committed crime, we prosecute you. >> i don't think that my comments of other presidents are partisans in terms of democrats or republicans. >> a lot o and olt of things
that die hard continuing and republicans have said about the president. what the president have done is the rule of law and undermining the institutions is something that you have some kind of conscious or platform in respectful ways, you can disagree and you can poind t it out. >> i love the book. you go through the book, it is more than just robert and cohen, it is part of what philadelphia does. >> you talk about mistakes that were made and how to remedy those mistakes and the process of the justice system and bringing charges of investigating and it is fascinating and like your dad says, it is readable. in the beginning you quoted coll clarence daryl. i thought it was a good thing to remember. after all every women life in this world is inevitably mix
with so many laws. no matter what kalaws we cause. >> freedom comes from human beings rather than laws or institutions. >> that may one of my favorite votes of all time. >>n i i don't think how important it is? it has a change since people ge seem the rule of law. so that's why i spend all this time trying to write about the way people can step back. it is absolutely completely unredacted. >> yes. >> doing justice, it is a really wonderful book.
congratulations. >> you did a great job. >> i was happy to be on before the baby. >> i am, too. >> we never know. >> preet, thank you so much. >> good luck out there. >> more on trump's 2020 campaign hopes to rep uponize the report. jonathanly mer is jo jonathan lemilemire, thank you. >> also, will your bills cost you your home? t this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ but i'm more than a number. when i'm not sharing ideas with my colleagues i'm defending my kingdom. my essilor lenses offer more than vision correction
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president trump has called the mueller investigation everything from a hoax to presidential harassment to a witch hunt. with the special counsel's report is expected soon, who knows? trump and his allies seeing the investigation as something more, a political weapon. that's according to "ap," jonathan lemire who writes. the report will produce what he insisted all along that there is no clear evidence of conspiracy of russia and his 2016 campaign. trump and his advisers are considering how to weaponize those findings. joining me jonathan lemire and our law professor joyce vance. john, how are they plan to use this report? >> well, let's make two things clear up front. >> no one knows what's in the report yet. number two, the mueller investigation is far from a witch hunt. we know the totals of indictments and charges.
having said that, people around the president have been saying recent days and weeks as we reported in our story that there is not going to be anything new or a smoking gun or some sort of bomb shell they're unaware of. the president is going to try to take that. instead of running from the port which i think most of us anticipated, the idea pointing out suggesting his claim would be there is nothing here. this has been two years and tens of millions of dollars. it obstruct my agenda. are they going to take it and look, this does not work. this is a proven fact. there is no collusion or conspiracy, you already had your shot at me, what is the house dems doing? >> he's going to don't tear down the justice department for his own political ends. >> he's going to use it to bash
his foe. the department of justice and the deep state and the american system, perhaps >> also importantly the democrats now are in control of the house who now launched their own way of investigation. >> that's one way of putting it. he's going to suggest, again, this is assuming the report comes back without that new bomb shell. he's going to say look, i didn't interfere or fire mueller, we gave him two years, this is what he came up with. yet, you are still investigating me and he's going to paint democrats as being obstructionists and he hopes other around him will believe it. he'll make the case that people perhaps have soured on him a little bit. >> he painted himself as a victim. it is unclear it will work in 2020. we'll find out. >> there is also reporting out there joyce that the president's
team and the white house will end up seeing the report or wants to see the report before congress will. jerry nadl jerry nadler tweeted in opposition to that. the law here is very clear, when he finished his work, mueller is required to report to the attorney general who's required to report to the house and senate judiciary committee. joyce, what do you think? >> so the argument that the white house will make here, katy, is they're entitled to scrutinize the report to make sure none of the materials that it contains fall under the executive privilege. the president should have some private conversations with his advisers so they can give him advice. it is very unclear here that the white house has not asserted executive privilege in a timely fashion. they'll make the argument that they have at least put it out
there and entitled to do this. i think it is highly questionable and it just makes the white house looks like they have something to hide. >> there were a number of document requests made by chairman and congress to the white house and elijah cummings have said the white house did not turn over a single piece of paper to his committee. that was when the democrats came back into power, exercising oversight which is their congressional authority, part of the separation of powers. he said i sent 12 letters on half a dozen of topics. in response to the white house, refusing to hand over any documents and any witnesses for interviews. the white house have not turned over a single piece of paper to our committee or make a single official available for system during the 116 congress.
what other avenue, joyce, do democrats and congress have to try to enforce the white house's hand? >> they were requests and they were polite letters asking people to comply with them. that's an opening though. now the committee can get toughen and they can send out subpoenas to people. i suspect that end up pretty quickly with the white house in some sort of a courtroom setting. there is a possibility that they'll negotiate in the white house agree to turn over some documents. it seems like this white house posture, congress should not and i don't believe we'll stand for that sort soft attitude we'll see the executive branch and legislative branch. >> going after the counsel trying to use the mueller investigation as a political tool for 2020. he's not responding to congress
or an equal branch of government. that's an attack on the american system. >> that's right, he put politics ahead of our government. time and time again, he defides the convention. it is not how he sees things. this president will keep his inner circle. it is all about political warfare and trying to win that minute or second or that news cycle of whatever it may be. the mueller probe is threat to the presidency. right now they feel like they can take this and use it as a weapon to go after those dems. >> john lemire and joyce vance, thank you as well. >> elizabeth warren suggested an over haul to abolish the
electoral college. >> every vote matters, that means to get rid of the electoral college. >> democrats have lost two elections to the electoral college even though they won the popular vote, that includes the 2016 election when donald trump won the electoral college but lost the popular votes by hillary clinton by nearly 3 million votes. president elected by a popular vote which means cities would end up running the country and smaller states and the entire midwest would end up losing all power. we can't let that happen. it was a remarkable flip for trump calling the electoral college a disaster. joining me, now with brilliant corner, cornel belcher and rick.
cornell, is the president right? the electoral college abolishing would transfer powers over to cities? does that mean there would be swaths of the countries would not have much to say. >> no. the population is where the population is. new hampshire gets a lot of attention going from democrats to republicans who spend a lot of money there because you have an electorate there that's shown to be fluent. hillary clinton got roughly 480,000 votes and did not spend any money. if she were to spend more, she would still get roughly of 480,000 votes.
i think it is a great idea that we do get rid of electoral college because in the end, the person with the most votes should win. >> i was asking delegates about their electoral processes and what they think of the american system. rick, we'll find out why at some point. when we talk about the electoral college verses the popular vote, other developed nations or people from other nations looked at us like we are crazy. how can america have an elected leaders that was not elected by the majority of the people in the country? that does not sound like democracy to them. >> well, we are not a democracy. we are a constitutional republican, we are a nation of different states and different states have different interests. the founder wants s want to be that the -- unless swing states
do not get any attention and as dr. belcher says they'll focus on a small amount of states. first, we don't have to eliminate the electoral college to move to a national popular vote system. this process is underway. three states just came on board with the national popular vote. the constitution says states get to choose how their electors are assigned. 13 states said we choose to assign all of our electorates. when enough states sign onto amount to the 270 needed. so to get enough states who sign onto this law, they have to pass the state law, that means we don't have to pass electoral college. we don't have to change the constitution, we just need to change state law. >> the idea that president trump says the city -- that's simply not true. los angeles is a huge city and
it does not control politics in the state of california. if you look at urban verses rural, they're roughly split in half. it will change the whole dynamic of the way we campaign. if you are a swing state, all promises are made in your state. if you have a national vote, we have care much on a broader interest. >> so far all the states have signed on, colorado is a now one that signed on recently. our polama what is stopping red states from signing on? why are republicans not worried of losing the electoral college but winning the popular vote. correct me if i am wrong, that's a real concern for republicans for elections past. i am sorry, someone just
screamscrea screamed in my ears and i don't know what they are saying. why are republicans getting involved in this? >> you are getting ready for the baby, having someone screaming in your ears. >> look, this is a real challenge for republicans. my friend on the other end of this would quiver with this. the republicans are and especially trump, they're becoming a smaller party. donald trump has not expand the republican party and they're having real issues reaching diverse voters. so a lot of these big states when we are talking about whether it is texas or florida, a lot of these big states as the demographics of these places change, it gets harder and harder for republicans to compete unless there is a real alignment that can't compete in these diverse places if they are the party of trump. >> all right, cornell belcher and rick tyler. >> rick can hear me now.
>> one last thing though. i don't know that necessarily donald trump would have lost under the system. the system people campaign differently and strategies are different. don't look at republicans, and say hillary clinton will be president today, that may not be true. >> come on rick, i think that's true. >> he did run on a 50-state. >> he won places that people thought he was crazy to go to. >> and hillary clinton, that's why he lost. >> let's come back with that debate. >> she was pursuing a national strategy. >> she's ahead of the game. >> getting national attention when ever you go anywhere as a candidate for the republican or the democratic party when you are that far along, all of your events, a good portion of them are broadcasted and headlines. it does not matter if you are there one-on-one.
>> it does. it gives you interest in that state. if west virginia is as swing state, it is all about coal minding and on and on. we should have a broad interest of american interests and not just narrow interests of the swing state. >> it is not about where the candidate shows up there. >> it is about advertising and also -- well, no. >> cornell, you have ten seconds. >> campaign resources to get out to vote, it is not whether they show up or not. >> coming up in the case, a concrete reason why healthcare is a 2018 issue and will be a 2 2020 issue. ssue
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have you gotten a medical bill that was higher than you expected or unexpected all together? denver affiliate, kusa investigated surprise bills they found collection companies have a new method to get patients to pay bills that they never chose by putting a llien on the patient's home until their debt is paid. >> reporter: raising to the emergency room, few people stop to think about the hospital bill. nicole calls first to make sure
this denver hospital accepts her health plan. >> they said yes. we take your insurance. >> reporter: once there, she kept asking. >> each time you asked, they said yes. >> reporter: two months later, the doctor sent a whopping bill and the insurance company says she had to pay it. >> i was so frustrated, i am going to let it die in collection, i am not going to pay this. two years later, the collection company docked her pay 25% and slapped a lien on the young mother's home. kusa investigated and discovered since 2017, that one collection alone could put a lien on 170 homes. we found similar cases of liens in at least six states. a major factor, surprise medical
bills, four and ten americans have received one. >> this practice is incredibly common. it has become more so recently and it affects tens or if not hundreds of thousands of americans every year. >> when we ask who is to blame in denver? the finger blaming started. the doctors blaming the insurance company and the hospital blamed the doctor. >> there are shared responsibility in our system. >> did the hospital have the responsibility to tell her you may get treatments of someone who's out of network. >> that's an obligation. >> reporter: the other problem is doctors charge higher price to patients outside of the doctor's insurance company network. >> physician group sees this as a way of make extra money on the backs of patients. >> reporter: what can patients do? call your insurance company and
make sure the hospital covers. >> they made money off of me during the most vulnerable day of my day of my life. >> joining me, stephanie gosk. >> you do your due diligence and called them up and make sure they are in network and you go. she repeatedly asked if they were in network and she was told yes. not once did anyone tell her that the surgeon who was on call that day might not take her insurance. the way this works is the hospital have staff doctors and not all hospitals function like this. the staff doctors will be the same plan as the hospital and you are covered. a lot of hospitals contract physicians to do work. when they do that because our insurance scheme in this country is so complicated that there are thousands of different plans out
there. the hospital say they have no way of knowing whether or not the doctors will actually accept your particular plan. they say they can't be held responsible for that. they need these doctors to function and that's how the system ends upturning in -- >> you need those doctors to saver your life potentially and help you get better so you are not in the position to say i need you to find another doctor because you are on the operating table or in the emergency room. it seems like they're take advantage of the patient here. >> i have done a lot of healthcare story, the people that end up paying the price are the patience. the highest price. what you see here when these bills are not paid. the surprise bills come in and nicole does not have more than $4,500 to pay off that bill. it goes to collection.
collection agencies have an enormous amount of power. some of them will put a lien on your home preventing you from sell it or finance it. others will dock your pay. they'll all will ruin your credit and you don't have much recourse. >> stephanie gosk, thank you for bringing this to our attention. >> appreciate it. >> up next, devin nunes, his cows and his mom. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all common types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant,
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him a troeasotreasonous shill. they say his boots are full of -- and it is time to put him to pasture. he explained his beef on fox last night. >> twitter says they don't have accounts that do this, so like i said, this is the first of many lawsuits coming but there was several fake news accounts. our first amendment rights are at stake here. >> joining me is ben collins. i commend the other folks in this studio for trying to keep a lid on laughing. we're doing pretty good. what is going on here, has this
worked? there is a ton of devin nunes parody accounts. >> barbara streisand sued because someone took an aerial shot of her house, and the coverage of the lawsuit let everyone see it. that's what george conway has more followers than president trump. >> what is this idea that twitter is blocking conservative free speech? >> this is part of a much larger campaign by a bunch of people and money on right, too, to try to counter act this current notion from the right about regulating facebook, twitter, and things like that. they're trying to co-op this conversation. a lot of these right-wing blogs
rely on random trolls that spout innuendo all day. the blogs cover it, that gets aggregated, it goes on talk radio, and it can go all the way to your family's facebook from there. that is really what this is about. this is about a larger play from far right money to make it so that people can say literally anything they want on the internet. >> so if they go on to block these accounts, and they block other accounts that are not spreading the truth, that ends up hurting right wing and hurting various people. >> right, once that ecosystem is gone, you're left with boring
facts? >> so what is it about? >> he is trying to stir things up. he says i'm receiving e-mails from wtwitter that are all democratic. it is algorithmic. >> the president was asked about it yesterday, rets see what he said about it? >> i have many, many millions of followers on twitter and it is different than it used to be, things are happening, names are taken off, things are not getting through, and it seems to be if they're conservative, republican, in a certain group, they are not goat getting through. i will tell you there is
collusion with respect to that, something has to be going on. >> i don't know what to say about it. >> this is the sort of eco system that benefits him. >> they get to run on innuendo again, right? anything is possible, we talk to tech companies all of the time about what is going on all of the time there. executives are deathly afraid. they have lobbyists, twitter, facebook, just to appease conservative -- they're afraid of what it might look like. their afraid of that heat they get from the president and conservatives because the vitrial is so tough at this
like all of the stuff not necessarily about donald trump. he is an interesting guy and i enjoyed that. >> he had a lot of information about cases in the news a few years ago including the time square bomber and the ways in which investigators talked to suspects. how they get them to confess, get information, torture doesn't work, but treating them like a human being -- >> torture is satisfying because it gets somebody to say something you think you want them to say, but if it is more than just trying to get an information, porture doesn't tend to be effective. good to see you. no collusion, tremendous success. no collusion, some of what president trump's stream of consciou s