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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  March 21, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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a language that didn't need them. >> however -- >> the bottom line -- >> however, dot, dot, dot, as mika would edit -- >> out of time swrrks so we're out of time, but i want to tell everybody who's watching, you can also go online because we're going to be talking after this and we'll put it up today. but the bottom line is, respect the reader and understand, if it reads well out loud, you're probably on to something, right? >> yes. respect the reader and respect your own voice. >> okay, very good. >> yeah. >> the book is "dreyer's english: an utterly correct guide to clarity and style." read the footnotes. you'll be glad you did. thank you so much. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika, thanks, joe. hi, there. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, distract and deflect. president trump doing his very best to change the topic, breaking out maps, bringing up the 2016 election, and again
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going after late senator john mccain, this as expectations for the delivery of the mueller report intensify and president trump, he says he wants everybody to see it. >> let it come out. let people see it. that's up to the attorney general. we'll see what happens. mate, check. a report from "axios" reveals that former vice president joe biden considering naming his number two with discussions to name stacey abrams as his running mate as part of his announcement that he is indeed jumping in the presidential race. and less than one week after 50 people were brutally killed in a terror attack in two mosques, new zealand's prime minister announces strict new gun laws. that's fast. >> every semiautomatic used in the terrorist attack on friday will be banned in this country. y we begin this morning with president trump giving the green
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light to the mueller report, saying, let it come out, as the white house, congress, and the country wait for this sucker to drop. and as far as we're concerned, it could be any minute. i have a fantastic team here to break all of it down, but first, here's where we stand right now. all eyes are on the justice department as we wait for any word that the mueller report has been handed over to the attorney general, william barr. as for the exact timing or what happens once it's submitted, we just don't know yet. how much of the report gets revealed to the public is entirely up to bill barr. but president trump said yesterday that he wants the people to see it. >> let it come out. let people see it. that's up to the attorney general. we have a very good attorney general. he's a very highly respected man. and we'll see what happens. i think it's ridiculous, but i want to see the report. and you know who will want to see it? the tens of millions of people that love the fact that we have the greatest economy we've ever had.
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>> we too not have the greatest economy that we've ever had, and i want to know what "see it" means. that was a running theme throughout the q&a outside the white house. president trump mentioned his supporters multiple times in discussing the mueller report. in fact, there's new reporting out today that suggests the president and his aides, well, they're telling people that they are getting more and more confident that the report will not have anything damaging to the president, and it might actually help him in 2020 by allowing him to play the victim. here's how the president himself made that case on wednesday. listen. >> and i'm saying to myself, wait a minute, i just won one of the greatest elections of all time in the history of this country, and even you will admit that, and now i have somebody writing a report that never got a vote? it's called the mueller report. so, explain that, because my voters don't get it. and i don't get it. >> hmm. i want to bring in nbc's peter alexander at the white house and nbc's julia ainsley, who covers
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the justice department. julia, you know i am going to you first. what exactly do we know about the timing of the report? give me the logistics, the details, the nuts and bolts. how's this going to work? >> reporter: okay, so, all we know is we are expecting it any day now, stephanie. if i had more specifics, i would give those to you, of course. right now we have journalists packed in here. we are on higher alert, i think, than we would have been this time last week or earlier this week because we were expecting it to come soon. we also, i will say, expect the attorney general, william barr, to let us know and let the public know that he has received that report, but that's not a guarantee. he does not have to do that. all he has to do is provide a report to congress that might even just be a fraction of what he gets from robert mueller. what's important to realize is just because we get the signal that the report has been delivered here does not mean we will have any of the answers to the questions that we have been asking for over two years, about
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whether or not the trump campaign worked with russia to influence the 2016 election, about what compromat the russians might have on the president. those questions won't be answered until william barr finishes his work here. so really, all we will know is robert mueller's work is done when he hands over that report to william barr. and then the next person we'll hear from is the attorney general. we really won't be expecting to hear much out of the special counsel's office after that. >> my goodness. all right, peter. once this actually happens, what do we hear from the white house and the president's legal team, because we haven't heard from rudy giuliani in quite some time. and you can have anonymous reporting that, well, he's feeling more and more confident, but that's just a narrative. give us some facts. >> reporter: yeah, stephanie, the bottom line is that, as i think julia pointed out well, there is a state of sort of high alert, certainly in the west wing among the president's aides and allies. they have been preparing for this to be handed over, the
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attorney general and hopefully made public in some form for the course of months. and the guidance we're getting from officials here at the white house, it's likely that the way this plays out, depending on what they receive, is that if the initial word is a short statement, that the white house may acknowledge it with a short statement of its own. it's likely that they will direct questioning to outside legal counsel as well. but the first thing i expect is that they will try to buy themselves some time to try to figure out what more it says, what they can glean from it before a message about it. on the outside, rudy giuliani and some of his team there -- if the report that we receive -- or whatever details we receive appear to exonerate the president, if it's something more substantial as they optimistically anticipate or hope that it would be something that will exonerate the president, they will quickly get on the trigger of no collusion, no obstruction, a point the president has been making for
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months and a point he reiterated literally as he walked over to us on the south lawn yesterday. if it's a little bit more damaging, then that will be interesting to watch what happens, though it's possible that giuliani and his team produce, provide what they have long insisted they are sitting on right now, a counter report. and of course, to conclude, the president has a phone and twitter account, so we may first hear about it from him. >> indeed we might. i want to bring my panel in. eli stokeles, white house reporter for "the los angeles times," doug burns, former federal prosecutor and assistant u.s. attorney for new york's eastern district, barrett burger, former federal prosecutor who worked in new york's southern district and eastern district, david drucker, senior political correspondent with "the washington examiner" and contributing writer for vanity fair's "the hive." and jon meacham is here, presidential historian and msnbc political contributor. we have a full house! first to doug burns. >> sure. >> when the president says "let everyone see it," i want to understand what "it" means,
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because "it" isn't necessarily great. mueller hit send and we all get this thing. >> it's a very legal use of the word it. you heard my pundits explain and i'll explain it one more time, after the 800-page starr report came out, they changed the regulations in title 28. they said the report coming from the special counsel's to be confidential. so now you fast-forward the movie, everybody doesn't like that. i get that. that's a political point. so, let's assume it goes confidentially to bill barr, exactly the way you've been explaining it this morning, then bill barr decides what, if any, of that information goes to congress or the public, or he writes his own report. so, the question, back to what you're saying, is does "it" refer to the actual report itself from the special counsel or can "it" also cover what bill barr may put together? so you're right. >> let's talk about bill barr's influence, and i'd love a little historical perspective.
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we know that the "washington post" has a poll out that says 80% of the public wants to see the report released. we know that the house voted unanimously, 420-0, to release it. do you think any of this impacts bill barr, or do you think bill barr is there for the president? >> i think general barr, who's been attorney general before, under bush 41, i think he would have an institutional -- well, see himself as an institutionalist. >> he's not sort of one of these, was on the campaign, trump home boys. he's a different profile. >> he didn't get his job through page six, unlike most of these folks. so, yeah, i think so. and i know general, he wrote a piece about trump that is controversial. but my sense is that there is -- i don't think there is a historical precedent of a report this scope and scale not becoming published. so my sense is that the attorney general will do the right thing. >> barrett, we cannot forget, there are dozens of sealed
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indictments that have been filed in d.c. federal court over these last two years. i haven't even gotten into the southern district of new york. how does all that play in here? >> yeah, i mean, indictments don't just go away just because the special counsel files his report. so those will continue, likely passed off to other united states attorneys' offices and those cases will be litigated. so i don't think we should assume the end is the end. the end is not until all the facts come out. the end is not until all these various cases actually get to play out in federal courts, which is where they should. so, even if the special counsel files his report, certainly not the end of the legal story and not the end of legal jeopardy for people that were involved in this. >> eli, "ap" reporting that the president is now feeling confident, there's a sense of optimism in the white house. are we supposed to buy that? let's think about the last six days, at least on social media, that the president has had. >> that's right, and i would be pretty skeptical that he's wholly confident. he might feel confident at certain times, almost ctrying t
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convince himself, but this is clearly in his head. as peter noted, he walked up to the reporters yesterday and before he even took a question was saying no collusion, no collusion. this is front and center in his brain, and he is -- and the white house is preparing for it as well. there are additional attorneys working in the white house counsel's office. there's an attorney who's actually moved into the press space, steven groves, who's ready to sort of field questions and sort of be the press lead as a lot of this stuff comes out. so, the white house is mobilizing for this report, but people there will also tell you privately, don't know what's in it and we certainly don't know how the president will react. he's obviously tried for a long, long time to tell the public the ending or what he wants them to believe is the ending, regardless of what the report says, which is no collusion. whether or not that's borne out by the report, we'll see. i think it's, you know, whatever it says, it's expected that the president will continue to rail against the report itself on twitter and to complain about it. and i think, you know, at the white house, there's just this
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uneasiness about what -- about all the things that they don't know and how the president will react to it, although i do think among the people who are thinking long term about the president surviving this, they may be a little more confident that this could be damaging for a while but that if there's nothing in there that is really different than all the facts that we already have, that they believe that he'll be able to survive this long term. >> all right, well, confidence is king, and certainly, the president has it in spades. david, i want to go through the president's sort of political calculation, because the "ap" writes, "while trump's base has long been suspicious of mueller, the president's team believes independents and moderate democrats who backed him in the last election but have since soured may return to the fold if convinced he's been unfairly targeted." i mean, i was unaware that there were scores of moderate democrats that backed him in the last election, but i'll take the "ap" at their word. >> there were two. >> there were two. two of them. >> trump was one of them, actually. >> there you go! well, you know what --
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>> that's a good one. >> jared and ivanka. there you go. you got it right there. >> three. >> yes. what do you think? >> well, look, i don't think we should underscore how important it would be for the president politically in 2020 to get a clean bill of health -- >> sure. >> -- from a criminal standpoint from the mueller report. >> not just ronny jackson. >> correct. so, if the report says that, essentially, the president didn't do any of the things that he's been accused of by some democrats in terms of colluding with the russians and a whole bunch of other things, i think that's very important for him, because if it's the opposite, i mean, just imagine how that's going to look. it's going to be bad. i do think, though, that the president's issue has never really been the mueller report and the investigation. i think the issue for the president and whether or not he can win re-election is how he behaves and how he comports himself. i talked to a number of republican voters who really like everything he does and they believe that if he acted, let's say like a more conventional
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president, he wouldn't be able to accomplish the things he's accomplishing. by the same token, i talked to a whole other segment of trump voters who tell me, i like the guy, but i wish he would stop behaving the way he's behaving. and when you look at the 2018 midterm elections, why did republicans lose so many seats in traditionally conservative territory? because there is a whole subset of more traditional republican voters, the kind that liked the bushes, and this is an important part of the coalition, and they just cannot stomach him. and so, when things -- >> but they can stomach moderate democrats. they can't stomach the far left. >> they cannot. and that's one of the reasons why if the president is feeling confident, i think it would be because he's looking at the democratic field the way it's evolving so far, and it's only been a couple of months, and he's saying to themselves, they're all rushing to get as far in with the progressive base as they possibly can. now, this is a normal thing that happens in presidential elections. often there's a pivot back to the center. but if you want to know why republicans legitimately feel
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the best they have felt about the president in two years, it's because they think that however problematic the president's twitter habit is, it will all be absolved by democrats that are tooleftist, and they will get all of the skeptical republicans back into the fold the same way they were able to keep them because hillary clinton was a no-go zone for them. >> yes, they're feeling super confident, because every night when you turn on fox news, they talk about alexandria ocasio-cortez and the democratic socialist movement, and they never seem to mention mikie sherrill or all of the other moderate democrats who won in the midterms. john, i want to talk about what the president has said in the last 24 hours about late senator john mccain. let's share a bit of that. >> i endorsed him at his request, and i gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted, which as president i had to approve. i don't care about this. i didn't get thank you. that's okay. we sent him on the way, but i wasn't a fan of john mccain. >> it would be difficult for
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john mccain to send a thank you postmortem. jon meacham, for days, i could not figure out why the president would be going after john mccain. when he does one of these kind of fly off the handle things, you can usually trace it back to his base and it makes sense. and then maggie haberman pointed out, it's not just about john mccain and voting down the health care situation. john mccain ties to the dossier. the dossier gets you to mueller. mueller then drums up the southern district of new york, all which creates a massive hornet's nest, the only hornet's nest that matters to the president. so while the white house is telling us he's beaming with confidence, how could we say he's getting more and more confident when the reason he's truly going after john mccain is because he points to mccain for creating all these true legal issues. >> one of the disturbing things for those of us who make a living writing about this stuff is that really no one's advanced beyond shakespeare.
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so, this is "macbeth." you know, he feels guilty. i think -- this is my sense --. i think he feels guilty because he knows at least corners were cut involving russia, perhaps far worse. the fact that mccain was trafficking in this or allegedly trafficking in this would be one data point. the fact that mccain's a genuine hero would be another data point. and i think he ends up with this obsession, and he can't talk about what's really on his mind, so mccain becomes this target. he's conflate -- i think what he's doing is he's conflating president bush's state funeral with mccain's state funeral, but both of those are kind of similar for him because those are people who genuinely dominated the arena in a traditional way. >> true patriots, honored for their integrity. >> yeah, combat veterans. >> right. >> so, here's someone who very
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much wants to be military hero, but he's really like the admiral in mary poppins, right? i mean, he's on top of the house firing off the cannon. and so, i think all that's a mix-up. but we also don't want to overthink this too much. this is a man who thought that frederick douglass was doing great work. >> he did. >> right now. >> he did. >> so, we're not dealing with, you know, einstein. my sense is that he continues to attack mccain because mccain occupies a part of his emotional and brain space that makes him deeply uncomfortable and insecure. and so, therefore, he lashes out. and i don't think it's much more complicated than that. >> the president didn't get a ton of applause last night in ohio when he went after john mccain, though. so it takes me back to who exactly is he doing this for? and doesn't it hurt the argument that this whole mueller situation is made up by the far left, it's a witch hunt, it's george soros funded?
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actually, this takes you back to, wait a minute, maybe the great senator john mccain had some concerns. >> well, look, i think the president -- i think we have to remember, the president's feud with john mccain goes back to the beginning of his campaign in june because he came down the escalator, said what he said about immigrants, illegal immigrants from mexico, calling them rapists and murderers and everything else, and john mccain fired off at him and said the president immediately went on the attack. and the president only knows one speed. and i don't really want to shrink the president, but this is what he does, and he -- >> and the president's base says right on? >> yes, well, much of the president's base says right on. so, i think there's two things we need to understand. one is this is just what the president does. number two, there has been some encouragement for this behavior from certain quarters of the right-wing base, not all, but certain quarters, and so he's egged on. but as we saw during the remarks, there was dead silence, because this doesn't go over everywhere, even in front of
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crowds that are otherwise very supportive of the president. and it's counterproductive in any event because this doesn't gain the president any votes, and not doing this is not going to lose the president any votes. >> but maybe it reminds us that john mccain had some concerns, too. and you know what that guy did? he cared about the country. we're going to leave this conversation here, but trust me, there's a lot more to cover around it. coming up, a swift reaction less than one week after the horrific terror attack in new zealand. the country has announced plans to ban all military-style guns. that's some swift action, and that's coming up next. some swi that's coming up next. s for aduh moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. with tremfya®, you can get clearer. and stay clearer. in fact, most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.
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less than a week after that deadly shooting massacre at two mosques in new zealand, that nation's prime minister has just announced plans to ban nearly all military-style semiautomatic and assault rifles. >> in short, every semiautomatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on friday will be banned in this country. these changes will require legislation. that legislation has now been drafted and will be introduced under urgency. >> nbc's keir simmons is following the latest developments from london. keir, this is extraordinary. what's the timetable? how does new squealed plan to implement this? >> reporter: well, first, steph, is how they plan to implement it very, very quickly, by april 11th, so that's three weeks from now. and here's a list of what they
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plan to ban. they plan to ban military-style semiautomatic weapons, assault rifles, high-capacity magazines, parts with ability to convert a firearm into a military-style semiautomatic weapon, parts that cause a firearm to generate semiautomatic, automatic, or close to automatic gunfire. so, it's quite a list. new zealand already had some pretty tough gun laws, but this new legislation will be submitted to parliament as legislation the first week of april, and then there will be an amnesty for folks to hand in their weapons. and then if they don't and they're caught, they could face up to three years in jail. the cost, steph, to new zealand is around $138 million, but they think it's worth it. >> wow, extraordinary, keir. thank you so much. we're going to keep you up to this. >> reporter: you bet. >> amazing. less than a week and a decision was made like that. up next, former vice
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president joe biden still has not officially declared if he is running for 2020 yet, but a new report says if he does announce, it might be with a vice president already selected, georgia's stacey abrams. is it just a big idea or a ploy? we're going to discuss in a few moments. ploy? we're going to discuss in a few moments. gress. gress. but only 11% of its executives are women, and the quit rate is twice as high for them. here's a hack: make sure there's bandwidth for everyone. the more you know. - [woman] with shark's duo clean, i don't just clean, ♪ i deep clean carpets and floors, so i got this. yep, this too, and this, please. even long hair and pet hair are no problem, but the one thing i won't have to clean is this because the shark's self-cleaning brush roll removes the hair wrap while i clean. ♪ - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself.
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. as the 2020 field heats up, there is a democratic duo that could jump into the race next. according to axios, joe biden's advisers are debating naming a vice presidential pick straight out of the gate with stacey abrams as the current front-runner. there's been a lot of speculation about what's next for the popular georgia democrat after she narrowly lost her race for georgia governor last year. and according to "the atlanta journal," the two met last week in washington to discuss her political future. joining me now, president and ceo of voto latino and an msnbc contributor and a friend of mine, maria teresa kumar. national political reporter for "washington post" and moderator of "washington week" on pbs, robert costa. also with us, arthur brooks, president of the american enterprise institute and author of this new book that you must read, "love your enemies." david drucker's still with us.
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maria, to you first. the pros and cons of this sort of move, because earlier this morning i was looking at the "time" magazine cover. the article about alexandria ocasio-cortez and how she represents the next generation. if joe biden walks in with a stacey abrams, does it solve the criticism he gets about being too old-school and traditional? >> well, this has been insider talk for a long time that if biden were to jump in, one of the things that he can do is really appease a lot of the wisconsin, minnesota, michigan older white voter men that voted for obama, then voted for trump, but then his running mate should be someone that basically helps usher us into the future, someone like a stacey abrams, but people also talked about julian castro, kamala harris. i think the big challenge is how they are rolling this out, and they should really caution that stacey abrams, she owns her future. so this idea that they're going to welcome here in a tent, i would just be careful of how they frame it and make sure it is something that is something that she wants because she's done a fantastic job jumping on
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the national stage and capturing the hearts and imaginations of the american people. >> and the minds. arthur, we saw ted cruz in a similar move in 2016 naming carly fiorina as vp in sort of, i don't know, like a last-ditch effort to get some enthusiasm behind his campaign. it didn't work for ted cruz. could it work here? and ted cruz obviously -- >> that was a last-ditch effort for ted cruz. this is a first-ditch effort for joe biden, basically. the whole idea is, look, i'm older, i'm a man. this is a party that's actually looking for somebody who's not an older man necessarily, to get the nomination. on the other hand, he's pretty popular. and so, you know, i think on the face of it, it seems pretty smart. >> roberto, nbc news, we've been reporting that one of the nation's biggest democratic super pacs planning a $50 million effort specifically aimed at white working-class voters in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, and maybe florida. so, it appears there that they learned some lessons from 2016. does the white house think these
quote
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places are vulnerable? >> the white house sees the democrats in this talk of biden/abrams as something that's a strategic problem for them because they know the super pac is looking at the industrial midwest. that's also an area where vice president biden has historically had some strength and some connections, but they also look at the 2018 midterms, and they see stacey abrams in georgia, you see in texas beto o'rourke's campaign, andrew gillum in florida. doug jones won a senate race in alabama not too long ago, and they say that democrats could be coming back even in the south. and if you had biden/abrams, that would be a strategic, real challenge for republicans in both the midwest and the south. >> david, there is enthusiasm for president trump in a lot of these areas, but it's enthusiasm for who president trump is, but he hasn't delivered in many ways, especially if you think about specifically jobs for white working class voters. remember he was telling people in ohio, don't sell your house, and now you know some of those plants, specifically in
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lordstown, are closing. is this a good strategy for democrats to go in, or does the president have these voters on lock? >> look, you never want to take any voters for granted, meaning you don't want to write them off and say we don't need them, especially in competitive states. wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan, these are competitive states. it's a competitive part of the country. and if you look at how 2016 finished, what the president accomplished was pretty remarkable. no republican had won those states in about 30, 40 years, but they were very narrowly decided. so i think democrats would be foolish to decide now we're going to pivot to a sun belt strategy where we're gaining and we're getting there, but we're not quite there. don't forget, andrew gillum, stacey abrams, beto o'rourke, they came close. they were pretty remarkable campaigns. they all lost. and where did democrats do pretty well? they did pretty well in ohio, where they held a senate seat, wisconsin, where they held a senate seat, pennsylvania where they held a senate seat, also did well in governors' races and i'm leaving out michigan, another important state. what democrats need to do is
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sort of decide, and this is what the primary's about, is sort out what they're all about and what exactly they believe. i think one thing that the candidates would be smart to do that are running for president, it's not so much that you don't try and satisfy your progressive base if you're a democrat, but you don't want to look like you're a follower. and so, alexandria ocasio-cortez, for instance, has a lot of ambition and a lot of ambitious policies. they shouldn't all jump on the bandwagon to agree with everything she says. they need to be proactive and say actually, i don't agree with that, but this is what i agree with. here's how i'm going lead. ultimately it attracts voters and it's one of the things that made bernie sanders so compelling in 2016, because he was telling people, i'm not a follower. and even if you think i'm left of center, i'm leading and offering something. i think that's what's usually compelling in a presidential winner. >> well, you did hear beto say the spirit, the idea, the need for a green new deal makes sense. it's the details that he doesn't yet know or support. so you see some level of inclusion but not necessarily following. maria, i want to share a clip of
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former colorado governor john hickenlooper last night in a town hall that's getting a whole lot of attention. >> governor, some of your male competitors have vowed to put a woman on the ticket. yes or no, would you do the same? >> well, again, of course, but i think that we should be -- well, i'll ask you another question. how come -- >> but i'm asking the questions. >> i know. i know. but how come we're not asking more often the women, would you be willing to put a man on the ticket? >> okay, maria, i know he is getting slayed for this, but i watched it realtime. to me, that was just sort of like a dorky dad joke awkward moment. >> right. >> he said, of course. and i actually took it, like in his terrible landing of a joke that didn't work, almost paying homage to the fact that so many women just won in the midterms and so many women on the democratic side are putting their hat in the ring for the 2020 race, but that's not how it's being read. >> every single candidate that is a male candidate is
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considering which woman are they going to put on the ticket. he was basically saying, of course, because it's a conversation that they're all having behind closed doors. and i agree with you, stephanie, i think they are trying to make something out of nothing and that's unfair to him. i think that the way he actually reversed the question, said throwing it back at her, why aren't we asking the women that? because it's true, we're not asking the women that. so i think it's nothing. but i do think that the trouble that folks are going to have in this election because there's so many candidates, is that everybody's going to want to have that gotcha moment. and what the democratic party really needs is a moment to reset, to breathe, and talk about the real issues that are going to galvanize the american public to come and vote. and it's not necessarily the people that are on the, you know, on the extreme -- you know, that are on the extreme progressive side that are going to vote. is it the independent voter that they can capture? is it also the moderate republicans that don't like where the country's going under this president? how are they going to bring them under the tent? and i would actually encourage us to think that there is a new south. and the reason that georgia and
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florida and texas were up for grabs is because there is a new population there, not just the large growing latino population, but you have industry coming. and with industry, you bring in money, you bring in young professionals, you bring families. and that is the new south that is all of a sudden really contested. if we can level with each other, florida, texas, and georgia should never have even been at arm's reach for democrats this past midterm. >> then we are in agreement. i heard that. i thought it was a hat tip to all the women in charge from a guy who, like, i don't know, probably does a sprinkler on the dance floor. up next, love your enemies. my friend arthur brooks here has literally written the book on it. stay with us. this is what he says is the key to not falling into a culture of contempt, and ultimately, avoiding a more divisive country. you know how important i think this is. we need to put decency first. you don't want to miss this conversation. first you don't want to miss this conversation n than tylenol extra strength.
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which are garbage standards. it is love for each other and our country. love is the why of our leaders that can bring america back together, and of all of us in our families and communities." back with me, arthur brooks. i'm not wearing it today, but i actually wear a love pin every day to remind people, it's a verb. you have to actually do it. >> right. >> here's the criticism i get, though. when i say on a regular basis, let's just open our minds and hearts, can't we get a little bit closer, people respond to me and say, that's easy for you to say. you're a white woman. and you and i are two white people having this conversation. and we do have the benefit of white privilege. and others will say, things are so unjust, you have to burn the house down in order to rebuild it. >> right. so, that's a profoundly -- it's an argument that actually doesn't hold any water because you can't persuade anybody under those circumstances. >> and if you burn a house down, nobody has anywhere to live. >> if our argument is i'm right and you're stupid and evil, there is nobody in america that will be persuaded by that, so it's an impractical argument and
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also is morally unjust. everybody watching us, every single person loves somebody with whom they disagree politically. and when somebody on your own side or on twitter or cable television says the other person's stupid and eevenl, they're talking about your sister-in-law, talking about your dad. don't put up with that! you shouldn't! point of fact, 93% of americans hate how divided we've become. one in six americans have stoppsto stopped talking to a family member or close friend which is a love and happiness crisis. we are having higher rates of depression and anxiety and higher rates of stress because of politics. we need to take our country back from the outraged industrial complex. we need to take it back from the people that are living on twitter. we need to take it back from the screaming heads on television that are saying that just because i disagree with you, i hate you. we need to learn to actually disagree better, not less, because i don't think we should agree. agreement is mediocrity. so let's disagree. you know, if liberals want to be liberals and go after conservatives, do it hammer and tongs.
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but point of fact, if you can't take your conservative uncle and separate the person from the ideas, you'll never persuade him and you'll be unhappy. and that's not what the country wants. any candidate who comes up with a 93% strategy and actually can effectively sell it to the american people is going to win and change the country. and all of us can do this revolution inside ourselves. >> how do you feel about social media? because the criticism has been, well, they're trying to -- you know, if we start to sensor people, if they put up more barriers, then that's a left or right issue. and the president has said, no, you're trying to go after conservatives. but the point i've been trying to make is how about just some basic standards, okay? >> yeah. >> you and i can disagree right now, but you don't have the benefit of saying, hey, steph, go "f" yourself on tv, because we have some basic standards of decency. yet on social media platforms, "f" off is a good morning. >> yeah, for sure. the fcc would have something to say about it if we started dropping "f" bombs on msnbc, for sure. but on social media, that's part and parcel of why people are going there.
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social media stimulates the dopamine circuits, the neurotransmitter of the brain that gives you addiction. it's like smoking cigarettes, basically, is how twitter and other parts of social media work. and that's actually part of the business moddimodel, but people starting to figure out that these social media platforms are siloing them, making them lonely, because they're substituting for real human relationships. they're also basically turning themselves off from parts of the culture that they don't want to miss. it's making them miserable. people will not put up with something that makes them miserable forever, and that's an existential crisis. rule number one is people watching us should never be anonymous on social media, ever, ever, ever. they never should interact with anybody who's anonymous on social media. and the platforms should start requiring that people say who they really are. that would solve a ton of problems and that would probably save these companies in the long run so they'll continue to be viable. and they'll complement our lives instead of substituting for our real lives, which is what they're currently doing. >> well, the idea for these social media companies and for some people who are anonymous,
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they're saying, well, this is where we can have conversations. this is where we can share different thoughts. but if you tried to say anything that goes outside what your profile is, you get annihilated, called something terrible. and my worry is it won't just silo us, it will silence us. >> yes, yes, absolutely. now, here's the crazy thing. if you go on twitter, you'd think that this 93% statistic i gave you that hates all the divisions in this country, you think that's completely wrong. you think that 100% of americans actually want a hot civil war. then you delete the app and you actually get it on out of your life for a while and you're like, huh, actually, people love each other. this country actually isn't so bad. >> most people love each other. >> so what's going on? and the answer is that most people -- actually, most people are not on social media all the time. most people are going to choir practice and soccer games and trying to get dinner on the table, and they love people with whom they disagree politically. so, let's live our lives. let's not live it in this whole idea, like i don't know what's going to happen with the mueller report, let's look on twitter all the time. that's not living!
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and furthermore, it makes you hate people that you consider to be your enemies. you're less happy than you could be. this book that we're talking about is a how-to guide on how to be a happier person through love. that doesn't mean agreeing. that doesn't mean we've got to come together politically, because we don't need to come together politically. we need competition politically. that's what we really need. but we can do that while loving each other more and being happier as people. and it just might save america. >> disagreeing with someone you love can help make you smarter. i have to ask you about the dnc's decision to not work with fox and debate there. for me i found it stunning. yes, i know there is an enormous amount of misinformation spread. if you're watching conservative media at night, it is a treacherous zone that i do think is spreading things that are absolutely untrue to the millions of loyal viewers that they have. but i saw bill maher talking about it the other night, and i thought he made grait points, that if the democrats don't show up to the party -- and there's -- listen, you've got chris wallace, you have a lot of really smart people over there.
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are they cutting off their nose to spite their face, a chance to speak to millions of people in america and say, let me tell you what i'm about? >> it's a mistake. it's a mistake. you've got to go where you're not invited and say things people don't expect. look, if you really believe something strongly, a better way for this country, go into mission territory. missionaries are not out there already preaching to the converted. that's an easy thing to do, but you've got to go basically show up on the porch where they say, uh, it's missionaries. i mean, that's what you've got to do if you actually want to change somebody's point of view. and if you err want to persuade somebody, you cannot do it by hatred. nobody's ever been convinced by hatred. it's never happened in the history of humanity. you can only answer the contempt of others with love if you actually expect people to listen to you for the first time. >> but you can't ask people to silence their hatred or bury it. you do have to -- you do have to acknowledge it. >> for sure. >> because if we're simply saying enough with your hatred, time to love, you have to at least acknowledge people's feelings.
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>> no, we need to disagree with each other's point of view. in point of fact, when somebody has a disagreement with me, i have to separate that person's viewpoint from the person. if i can't do that -- look, people are trying to fire me up on social media and in the medi politicians and college campuses saying somebody who has obnoxious points of view is a terrible person. well, that's not right. in point of fact, we're all nuanced people. and if i'm going to make any progress with you if i disagree, i have to say, i like stephanie. i just don't like what she thinks. let's work on what she thinks and just starting from that standpoint we can make progress. and everybody watching us can make progress and be happier people to boot. >> there's also some obnoxious people with great points of view. it goes both ways. arthur, thank you. up next -- my favorite part of the show. money, power, politics. specifically president trump's 2020 re-election and the economy. why fed chair jay powell's comments yesterday might make his run a lot more difficult.
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telling us. but it comes with a caveat. quote, he would also kind up in trouble if the economy slows markedly between now and next fall as many analysts predict it will. those analysts apparently include federal reserve chair jay powell who just yesterday reduced the fed's forecast for u.s. gdp growth in 2019 citing weaker global growth. joining me now, one of the authors of the politico piece who i'm guessing is getting annihilated on twitter right now. chief economic correspondent of politico, ben white. >> yes. >> i am quite sure the twitterverse is hitting you with a, say what? so i'm going to ask you to explain because for me, when i hear jay powell talk about a slowdown, that's going to hurt gdp, and we know we've been in expansion for quite some time. >> it also means jay powell is not going to continue to raise interest rates which will make any slowdown less bad. that's good for trump. the overarching theme of this piece is a couple of things. incumbent presidents usually win
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re-election. they almost always win in a strong economy. we're in a strong economy. i talked to multiple people who run models from yale, from moody's. moody's ran 12 different models that include political attributes of the president and where the economy is going. in all 12, trump wins again. based on a strong economy. >> but from a electoral perspective, it's a bifurcated economy, right? >> sure. jamie dimon who you don't always see, think about that forgotten american. he's thinking about jpmorgan shareholders and the market. he actually talked about this divided economy on monday. take a look. >> a company is doing fine. it's absolutely obvious that a big chunk has been left behind. 40% of americans make less than $15 an hour. 40% of americans can't afford a $400 bill whether it's medical or fixing a car. 15% of americans make minimum wages. 70,000 died from opioids and in the inner city schools, i travel the country and the real point
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is -- in inner city schools, that's where 50% are not graduating. the united states -- because most schools drive around most of the neighborhoods where companies live. they're doing fine. we've bifurcated the economy. i got these terrible things out there. >> so to me, this is a massive deal. >> sure. >> so you're saying the economy is doing so well which means the president should win again. it's the same economy that barack obama gave us and that's what elected president trump. because of all of those people jamie dimon is talking about who said stop telling me the economy is doing so well. i'm getting screwed. >> this is where democrats have a very significant opportunity and that's to go to the places trump won. michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. they don't need to flip a lot of voters but make the case trump promised to make this economy even better and better for you. if they can present a plan to those people that makes their wages go up even more and give them job security, take some of the trump message and say we'll do it and convince them that all trump did was cut taxes for
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millionaires and billionaires and corporations. then all these models could be proved wrong. and trump is a buster of all traditions. he could be the one an incumbent running in a strong economy and loses because people don't like him. >> how rare to see someone like jamie dimon do that? are we going to hear from more ceos talk about the real economy, not just the winning economy, especially guys who got hooked up as much as they did from the tax cut? >> you'll see more of it. you have to see more of it because people are frustrated with huge payouts they get. the tax cuts they got and everybody else not doing so well. good for their self-image. jamie has to do it. the rest of the ceos have to do it or puitchforks in the street. >> how about those that get fired and then get huge payouts. there is always, always good news somewhere, and we think good news ruhles. today is world down syndrome day. a mcdonald's restaurant in georgia could not wait until today to honor this young man.
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chris campbell. chris has downs syndrome but he's held a full-time job at that very mcdonald's for 27 years. campbell was presented with a trophy and a portion of the day's entire earnings was donated to a charity benefiting those with down syndrome. chris told our local atlanta affiliate his favorite part of his job is the happy meals saying, quote, every time i give the boxes, it makes each person happy. telling chris' story made me happy. thank you so much for watching this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up now, more news with my dear friend hallie jackson. >> steph, thank you. >> don't you love that story? >> i do. i love that story, steph. i could talk about that all day. but we will instead talk about everything else going on today here in washington. we're reporting to work early today. not as early as robert mueller. pulling up to the doj with his report set to drop any day, any minute really. that seems to be putting the
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president on edge. he keeps up his attacks on a dead man and his top aides' spouse. we're live at the white house. that report, of course, not slowing down investigations on capitol hill. a member of the judiciary and intel committees is here to talk about what they have found live, and we're also talking 2020 with one person not running already talking about a running mate. plus our nbc news exclusive and how democrats are going after voters who flipped in 2016. and it ain't cheap. our team is here covering all the day's big news. we start with what may or may not be brewing at the department of justice. the special counsel and his much-anticipated report, the white house bracing for it. bloomberg's headline, mueller laid out the dots. his report may show if they connect. president trump is once again slamming the special counsel, his team, his process, but also saying americans should be able to see this thing. and you probably want to see the report, right?

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