tv MSNBC Live With Richard Lui MSNBC March 23, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
p.m. in washington, where attorney general william barr and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein have spending their saturday at the justice department. they're working on a summary of the mueller report that could be delivered as early as tomorrow. we don't yet know what it will say, but we already have answers to some of the questions that have lingered as the investigation was wrapping up. we now know that robert mueller was not willing to compel in-person testimony from president trump, instead accepting written answers from the president and his lawyers. we also know that there will be no new indictments from the special counsel's office, although that doesn't necessarily rule out action from prosecutors in any other districts like the sdny or the edba. and we know that mueller indicted 34 people and entities over the past two years. those are significant court actions which should not be taken for granted. what we don't know is where mueller landed on the question of russian collusion. and we don't know how much of
the report will be made public. house speaker nancy pelosi has called for transparency from the attorney general, setting up a potential fight with the doj and/or the white house over what information will eventually be made public. joining me now nbc news national security and intelligence reporter ken dlinian. msnbc contributor jill winebanks and chief operations officer, former assistant for counterintelligence at the fbi and msnbc national security analyst, frank fegluzi. there were a few questions we didn't get to last hour that i think are still open. number one, the president wasn't compelled for in-person testimony. there was some question that they would go back at him with more written questions and would accept written answers. that didn't happen either. can you wrap up an investigation
without talking to the person in charge of the campaign that you were looking into? >> so the answer is yes, you can, but there is a sense that there's something incomplete about that. so reading the tea leaves as to why mueller didn't push hard to subpoena the sitting president, it could be simply that he thought it would result in a protracted legal bat that will he might lose and then take the wind out of his sails and momentum. it also could be simply that he did not feel he had a smoking gun that justified taking that -- drawing that line in the sand and saying you've got to show up at a grand jury. and it could also be that in his mind fwrjgrand jury equated to criminal prosecution and if he already made up his mind, if he was going to comply with protocol on not indicting a sitting president, why go through the drill of a criminal process if you're not going to end up with a prosecution? i think that's most likely. i think he's a rule follower, bob mueller, and i think he's
also likely to leave this to the rest of the system and to say you don't need me anymore, the justice system, the u.s. attorney's offices throughout the country are going to handle this. it's not about me. you know, a real quick antidote about mueller and it not being about him, on what we thought would be his last day in office as fbi director, he would later learn that barack obama asked him to stay on for two more years but on that last day around the table with his assistant directors, someone raised their hand and said, boss, what do you think your legacy is going to be, qua do you want your legacy to be as fbi director, and without patting an eye, he said i don't have time for that, i don't think about that kind of thing. it's not about him. it another about the system much bigger than him take care of the issues. >> let me ask you about him a little bit more because when this first started, when he was first named special counsel, i was listening to an episode of the "daily" with mike schmidt and he was talking about the way that mueller had been always
tribed to him and his reporting surrounding the doj and the fbi, and that mueller was the kind of guy that would sit an investigator down, ask him a number of questions about whoever he was trailing that day, and ask details town to the color of the car. he was very detail oriented, sometimes throwing his investigators off, making them realize that they needed to be as thorough as possible. in this moment that we're in right now, when this report has been given to a.g. barr, we don't know how long it is or what it looks like, are you confident that whatever we end up hearing from barr and rosenstein is going to be enough? >> so there's really two different questions in your question. with regard to the stories about how far down in the weeds mueller goes investigatively, they're mostly all true, very true. i've been there myself before. and yes, he might ask the color of the car on the surveillance
last night. so that gives me great confidence in the investigative thoroughness that transpired over the last two years. i have absolute confidence they've turned over every stone. but where i'm lacking that degree of surety is over across the street at doj with bill barr and what they're ultimately going to release and let us see publicly. so i'm convinced a very thorough comprehensive report went across the street. we've heard from the attorney general there's no significant dispute regarding investigative techniques or seeking indictments between mueller and him, but what we might not feel certain about is what is barr going to ultimately decide to release, what is confidential, what is classified. my position, this time in our history calls for complete transparency and virtually anything should be declassified, grand jury material should be -- a judge should be requested to release as well. this calls for complete transparen transparency. >> you don't see any counterintelligence issues with
declassifying everything that's there? >> let's look back at the 12 times of sitting gru russian intelligence officers by name, and let's use that as a model. you can only imagine the top-secret level intelitech niques that had to go into identifying each of those intelligence officers that mueller found was hacking into the dnc by name, their key strokes, time of day, the building they were sitting in. you're talking about top-secret compartment and techniques for that katy. if they can release that in the form of an indictment, masking the actual techniques, of course, then they can release just about almost anything. >> ken, what are we looking at seeing? because i feel like we've already gotten a new idea of what we're going to get from bill barr. when he was in his confirmation hearing, he said that he would basically abide by the letter of doj policy, the statute, and only release a summary of what mueller's findings are. now we're hearing that he's sitting down with rod
rosenstein, who's still there, to figure out how much can be made public. bob mueller is still special counsel even though the investigation is over. he's still there for potential counsel to bill to figure out what they can release. how extensive, ken, should we expect the attorney general to be? >> there are two questions here, katy. one is what kind of report did robber mueller write to william barr and the second is what will william barr release to congress. i agree with frank. we got a crew in the letter he sent to congress because he said i'm going to report to you almost immediately on mueller's explanations for who he didn't prosecute and why. there's this other category of information that's going to take a lot longer for us to learn whether we can release it. that suggests as frank said, there's classified information, grand jury information, and look, our own reporting tells us mueller's team has been writing
this report since august, fbi analysts have worked on it, lawyers have worked on it. i think it's a lepg tngthy, detd report. it seems clear from barr's testimony during his confirmation hearing that he's not in a position to just hand the report over to the public. what's also clear is whatever barr reports to the congress and to the public, democrats will fight to see the entire report within reason. they're not going to let code word classification information into the public domain but they'll demand every stitch of document tagts that can be released because we're talk about the conduct of the president of the united states. whether there were crimes or not, congress has a right to know, for example, whether donald trump was compromised by a foreign power. and they have a right to know whether he did committed misconduct short of crimes. that's where the battle goes now, katy. >> this whole investigation has become so political. it blankets cable news every day. there are opinions on all sides
as to what robert mueller would have found or should find. there was a lot of smoke when it came to questions about what donald trump's campaign was doing in regards to russia and what the candidate himself was doing, especially when you consider that press conference in july of 2016 where he asked russia to find hillary clinton's e-mails. a lot of open questions and a lot of opinions out there about what people believe should be found. as a prosecutor, as somebody who's working within the jus it the department, the legal department, a legal system, how would you suggest going about this? >> i think full disclosure is the first step. but i think it's not enough. even if the entire mueller report is fully released, if there's nothing that has to be even redacted, it's not the same as having a public hearing, as seeing witnesses, as judging their correcredibility, their b language, their tone of voice. that's what happened in watergate when we had the senator irvin hearings.
we had a special hearing where all the american people could see the witnesses and judge credibility. it prepared the way for people to accept the results, the indictment that we handled down, but there's another step that needs to be taken besides public hearings, and that is if congress doesn't get full cooperation from barr and doesn't receive the full report, they can make an application to the district court that supervises the grand jury and ask for a release of grand jury testimony in the public interest. we did that again in watergate, and turned over a roadmap to them, but they had requested the information, and that's an important step is they need to ask for it. it was part of what justified turns it over to them, is that they were interested, they wanted it, they would use it properly. and so i think again, it's just another way to get the facts out to the public because i think ken pointed this out, what happens next really is a political decision of whether
the president poses a threat that isn't a criminal case. it doesn't need to be elements of a crime that he has violated. maybe there is a law that should have existed that doesn't. maybe it is the counterintelligence efforts that frank has referred to. but the american people before they vote in 2020 need to know what is true and what isn't true about the president. >> frank, what about the stuff that's still open and out there? rick gates has not been sentenced. he's still cooperating. in fact, his cooperation agreement has just been extended. what if the report could potentially interfere with anything gates might be helping on or open or ongoing investigations that could still be out there? >> so one possibility on this theme that mueller is passing the baton and handing off loose ends to others could involve gates' cooperation and others'
cooperations, including whatever happens with roger stone. that is the concept that you don't need me anymore, i'm handing this off to the system, and the system is what it's all about and it's bigger than me. we might see this happening with southern district of new york, d.c. courts, even state and city courts in new york. i don't think he's going to hang onto these. i think his staff is going to dwindle down, and i think he's going to let the system handle the remainder of this. the other way to look at this is that whatever rick gates is cooperating on does not go to the seminal question perhaps that mueller was supposed to answer, that russian collusion question, and maybe it's other matters and he feels very comfortable handing gates off to someone else. >> neil has said this is just the beginning of or the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end, that there's still a lot more out there. what are we looking out for at sdny, edba, the d.c. district courts or potentially some state
courts? >> i think that's right. look, my sources are telling me that both political corruption and counterintelligence investigations have been spun off by the mueller probe. but we've got to be straight with people. this is no longer about russia. robert mueller was hired to answer the russia collusion question, and he's answered it to the best that he can do in his report. so these are about other things. the southern district of new york seems to be a very dangerous corruption investigation into members of the trump organization. and rick gates we know is cooperating with the southern district and their investigation of trump's inaugural spending. so these are very pair louse things, these are investigations that may go on for some time and may end up being more damaging to donald trump and the people around him than the mueller investigation, but they are not about russia collusion. >> ken, do you think that because there are no indictments on conspiracy from robert mueller, we've seen not one on conspiracy between the campaia campaign member or donald trump, that that means that's it, there was no conspiracy, no collusion?
>> it means there was no conspiracy that robert mueller felt he could prove in court, i think, katy. it doesn't -- collusion is not a legal term as we all know and have been talking about. i can see a mueller report that presents facts that many people will see as a lay definition of collusion. if the trump campaign allowed itself to be manipulated and opened itself up to interference from the russians and the russian intelligence operation into our democracy. we just have to wait and see what robert mueller says. i don't think the no collusion mantra, i don't think trump can claim that right now without having seen the mueller report. >> ken, jill, frank, thank you guys very much. i'm sure we'll see you tomorrow as well. up next, congress reacts to the rehe's of the mueller report. a member of the house oversight committee joins me live. ♪
[zara larsson - "wow"] ♪ ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪
the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store. it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome.
my next guest was just part of a conference call with other house democrats to discuss the mueller report and what to do next. california congressman mark desany section a member of the house oversight committee. thank you very much. what did you guys discuss? >> thanks for having me on. it was not very much new information. we're still waiting for the attorney general to communicate with us, but it was sort of preparation for anything that may happen at any moment. >> when you say preparation, what are you preparing for? >> the release of a report. and we're all preparing for that.
so i think this is a time where all of us need to just be patient. it's been two years in a very extensive investigation. we can wait a little bit longer. but it's going to be very interesting this week. >> ted lew was on a moment ago and he said on a previous phone call before this phone call that there was a request made by house democrats to the judiciary to preserve all documents. any other concrete moves democrats are preparing to make once this comes out, subpoenas that might be being drafted, et cetera, right now? >> well, we're going to make sure that we get every piece of information that we legally can. i think it's incredibly important that the american public and of course congress sees everything. a year from now, we're going to be deep into a primary, the next presidential election, so this is about accountability, but it's also about preparation and making sure we're ready for the next attack, which will probably take place. we should be prepared for it. >> when bill barr comes out with
his summary of what robert mueller has found, the summary of principal findings from robert mueller, if he comes out and says i did not find conspiracy between the president of the united states, will you believe the a.g.? >> well, we're a separate branch of government, co-equal, we need to see that. as your previous guests said when we went through watergate, there were public hearings, the american public got to hear everything factually that came up and they determined that. so this is a legal but also a political decision, so i think the more transparency the better and there should be public hearings with all of this information shared not just with congress but american voters. >> what is the intent of the public hearings? will it be to potentially file articles of impeachment or will it be for information for the public for 2020? >> it's just to find out the truth. elijah cummings has been very consistent about saying we want to follow the facts to the truth. so i think this is very important for republicans and
democrats. we just had a remarkable 420 members of congress, republicans and democrats vote to say that we wanted to see everything. i think if we stay consistent with that, then things will be fine. we'll get through this as a country. but we've got to share the truth with the american public. >> do you believe because there have been no indictments of anybody from the trump campaign or the president from robert mueller on the charges related to conspiracy against the united states, conspireing with russia, that robert mueller did not have enough to come to that conclusion? >> yeah, i'm not an attorney, so i would not know. i think all of this is to be determined. again, this is one of those instances, justice brandeis' admonition, the best disinfectant is sunshine. we have to be completely open and hon west the american public. it's not a cliche. this is too important for american democracy that we don't let all of america know what the facts are. >> are you concerned about what it could mean for 2020 if democrats come up with no further evidence than robert mueller has come up with, each
fn the full report is made public and it only shows that maybe the campaign was sloppy but not that they directly colluded or conspired? >> well, the important thing i think is to find out what happened. we know that the russians spent a lot of time and effort and money. we know they weaponized social media, social media's new to our process relatively new, so we've got to find those things out, so the american voters are very clear as to who's trying to sway their votes. and from that, then, democracy will be fine. this is pretty new territory not just in terms of the accusations but also the sophistication of the targeting. remember, there's only 77,000 votes that elected this president. >> when you talk about full disclosure of the mueller report, any security concerns about what might be in there, any redactions you think could be necessary? >> well, the intelligence committees do a great job of this. we get to go down and see this information. the intelligence committees get to see more of it. but that's for the lawyers to determine, and that means the house lawyers, congress' lawyers
along with the department of justice. so i'm very confident we can do that, but we should err on the side of transparency, knowing that there are national interests that we have to be careful about. >> i want to play what your republican colleagues are saying a bt this so far. let's listen. >> we've said all along, look, we looked into collusion and found no collusion. and yet that was only a few months into the trump administration, and yet mueller continued to go on. i want to see obviously the report's got to come out, if it turns out hike we're hearing that there aren't going to be further indictments, then number one it does vindicate president trump, but it also raises and gives credence to those claims that this was a witch-hunt. >> when you look at how this investigation is being spoken about by republicans or democrats, there's a real difference. and they sound a lot different. republicans are saying that this is going to be vindicating. you had scalese right there saying that this could mean it's all a big witch-hunt, and
democrats are saying, listen, i want to see everything because i might not believe what barr has summarized. if you are a voter out there and you look at both parties and you think, gosh, the way that this investigation is being talked about is so partisan, and it seems like everybody in congress has an agenda on it, if it doesn't find what they want it to find, they'll spin it in some way, how do you convince that voter that they should trust what you're saying over what the attorney general is saying or over what robert mueller has found? i mean, the attorney general's got to give a summary of his principal findings. unless you're saying the attorney general might lie about that, the summary of the findings might show that there was no collusion. >> look, we've had challenges in this country before. the way we got through them is having open hearings. we had watergate. we had chairman irvin, senator baker. they put party behind the national interest. and i really hope that we will do that as a progressive
democrat from san francisco. i think it is one of those times in history for us individually to remember that this is about the integrity of a presidential election. so holding people accountable but also making sure that the american voters know who's trying to manipulate their vote when they go in to next v vote next year. we have to keep our eye on the ball. there will be differences of opinion, but ultimately we have to put our party and ideology second to what's in the best interest of democracy. >> congressman, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. up next, there's a lot more to talk about on the politics of the mueller report because this ultimately could coming down to politics for 2020. these days we're all stressed. i hear you, sister. stress can affect our minds.
i call this dish, "stress." stress can also affect our bodies. so, i'm partnering with cigna to remind you that your emotional and physical health are more connected than you think. go in for your annual check-up. and be open with your doctor about anything you feel. physically, and emotionally. body and mind. cigna. together, all the way. that's better. oh no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton.
book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. ♪ with venus, you're in charge of your skin. so, write your own rules. because no one gets an opinion on why you shave - or how you show your skin. ♪ openturning 50 opens theuard. door to a lot of new things... like now your doctor may be talking to you about screening for colon cancer. luckily there's me, cologuard. the noninvasive test you use at home. it all starts when your doctor orders me. then it's as easy as get, go, gone. you get me when i'm delivered... right to your front door and in the privacy of your own home. there's no prep or special diet needed. you just go to the bathroom, to collect your sample. after that, i'm gone,
shipped to the lab for dna testing that finds colon cancer and precancer. cologuard is not right for everyone. it is not for high risk individuals, including those with a history of colon cancer or precancer. ibd, certain hereditary cancer syndromes, or a family history of colon cancer. maybe i'll be at your door soon! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.
less than 24 hours have passed since special counsel robert mueller handed over the results of his investigation to attorney general william barr, and speaking of 24 hours, that's how long it's been since the president tweeted. we don't know what is in the report. all we know at this moment is that the investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election is complete and that no further indictments are forthcoming. still that has not stopped a lot of spinning from both sides.
let's bring in our panel. republican strategist and msnbc contributor susan del persio. basel schmeichel. and margaret carlson. i don't want this to be a spin segment. so let's try to keep it away from that. but we are seeing a lot of spinning from both sides, from democrats and republicans and from political strategists on either side as well. when you look at what is about to come, it feels to me that we are at an inflection point when the general public and when lawmakers, journalists have going to have to decide who is trustworthy and where this conversation should go next. >> yeah. and we are a divided country. that's no doubt about it. i keep going back to when you introduced the segment saying this was an investigation of if russia was involved in our elections and how so. we don't know all the
information. we've seen the indictments. i mean, there has been significant action from mueller, and i want to know in come 2020 where we are on our elections. and i think that's a really big thing to be concerned about. and the mueller stuff will play itself out to be sure. but how secure are we in our elections in 2020? >> basel? >> i think that's a very important point, because ultimately, that's really what it boils down to. it also boils down to determining to what extent our elected officials are being influenced from various parties, foreign or domestic. that's also important. and the truth is i've never believed that this report should be part of the long-term democratic strategy for whatever happens between now and 2020 because voters want to hear about policy. we're talking about reparations. for me, i'm excited. i'm xooted because we're actually having a really good and strong policy conversation, and i think quite frankly the
voters are going to look for reasonable voices to try to find a way forward. are you worried this whole thing is going to cloud 2020? donald trump is not going to let it go. if it's favorable to him or at the very least not damning for him, he's already said that they're going to use it to their advantage while they campaign. i can envision him holding up the report and waving it and saying this is one big witch-hunt, they found nothing, and it was 675 days. how do democrats cut through that? >> we can anticipate it, too, but how much do we lean on that as a way to convince voters to fire him and hire us? the truth is i think a lot of what donald trump's going to spin it, the republicans will any way they can, but all of the negative conversation we can have about them is already built into the vote. >> republicans will spin it too. >> i hope they don't do it to the detriment of good, sound policy, because that's what's going to win. >> what's interesting is the 2020 candidates, they're really
not having -- putting their teeth into this. they're addressing the question and then moving on because they need to fight for their own candidacies. >> margaret? >> so, katy, i think democrats have a narrow path here in that they've expressed a lot of confidence in robert mueller and that cannot be revisited now just because they may not like the result here. but going forward, they still have everything that happened, which you were there for, katy, that donald trump publicly asked for russia's help, he welcomed the help, got the help, according to vladimir putin, he wanted trump to win, and because it was not an indictable offense doesn't mean that these things did not happen and that there isn't a very disturbing pattern of what happened in the last election and that democrats need the information. i mean, i think the arc of history is that -- is towards transparency, and there will be
a lot of information that comes out, and it will tell us a lot about the next election as susan and basil were asssaying, which need in order to avoid this happening again. i do doubt, katy, although i agree he could be waving the report around, i do not think that this time he will say, russia, if you're listening. >> he might. when you tell him not to do something, he does that. >> but he hasn't tweeted, katy. somebody's telling him -- >> maybe in the next few minutes. the 24-hour hiatus on tweeting is interesting, but i don't think it means he's going to change his ways going forward. regardless of whether he conspired or the campaign conspired, the campaign did benefit from whatever russia did. it did benefit from the leaking of the e-mails of hillary clinton. that is something that donald trump did wave around in 2016
and used to his advantage in order to denigrate hillary clinton and to cast aspersions toward her, paint her as somebody who's a liar and untrustworthy and criminal and put himself in a stronger position, especially, margaret, after the "access hollywood" tape dropped. >> right, katy. you know, something occurred to me earlier today, which is both the president and senator lindsey graham have been wanting to reopen the investigation into hillary. and given what's happening now, do they really with jared kushner and that really want the justice department to open an investigation into hillary and her e-mails? that seems to me to be a subject they wouldn't want to go to, that the president does have enough sense to stay away from a controversy that he and his white house will be implicated in. >> let me ask you guys about that because there are a lot of
questionable actions that the white house has taken or advisers of the white house have taken. you have as margaret just mentioned jared kushner using whats app and private e-mail to discuss foreign policy with foreign leaders. that's a questionable thing to do, especially when donald trump ran against hillary clinton on that very same thing. ivanka trump as well, using a private e-mail. there are all sorts of things that have happened in the last two years. are you confident that they won't be overshadowed by all of the attention that's opinion paid to the russia investigation if the russia investigation, the mueller investigation, finds no collusion? >> well, those things are very important, and there are other issues and oversight concerns, whether it be the department of education, hud, et cetera, which the congress should investigate and should investigate jared and ivanka. what i find interesting is the consequences of the mueller investigation are not going away anytime soon. michael cohen's going to jail in may, and that's going to be another big story and relive
this. you have gates, rick gates, who is in the middle of a plea deal that is extended before he's sentenced because he's still cooperating on other investigations. you have michael flynn, again, waiting to be sentenced. so these are all headlines that are going to keep rolling out, so this is not going away anytime soon. >> and, you know, it's interesting because you look at what's happening with the attorney general of the state of new york and the u.s. attorney for the southern district, so you've got all these investigations going on sort of concurrently with this mueller investigation. it seems like if the mueller investigation doesn't bring any evidence that politically or legally reaches the threshold of impeachment, donald trump is probably more in trouble in his private life than in his presidential life from that perspective. so the best way to get him into his private life is for democrats to do a really good job again of convincing voters to fire him and hire us. and, again, i think a lot of what you were talking about is
built in. the question is, do voters trust him and is anybody going to be willing to stand by his side while he's running. >> the other question is do the voters trust journalists any longer, trust the justice department any longer, do the voters trust lawmakers, do they trust any of our democratic institutions after what we've seen in this past three years. we're going to keep talking about this. margaret carlson, thank you so much. i know you have to go. susan and basil are sticking with me. hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice.
so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ whooo! want to take your next vacation to new heights? tripadvisor now lets you book over a hundred thousand tours, attractions, and experiences in destinations around the world! like new york! from bus tours, to breathtaking adventures, tripadvisor makes it easy to find and book amazing things to do. and you can cancel most bookings up to 24 hours in advance for a full refund.
so you can make your next trip... monumental! read reviews check hotel prices book things to do tripadvisor heartburn and gas? ♪ fight both fast tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas ♪ ♪ tum tum tum tums tums chewy bites with gas relief sarah's last tuition payment, sent off. feeling good? oh yeah. now i'm ready to focus on my project.
you cannot indict a sitting president so there's not going to be an indictment of trump, but there might be information that if he was -- if that policy wasn't in effect that he would have been indicted. >> the whole report right away is what we will be demanding and potentially using subpoenas to obtain. we're at the beginning potentially of another battle, a new phase. >> back with me, susan and basil. the beginning of a new phase. this is not going to end. >> no, it's not. and you're going to see elected officials from both parties doubling down. and they are going to be more and more aggressive, i demand this and we must see every sentence and every period in the mueller report, and they're grandstanding. and the republicans are going to do it too. we've already heard from mark meadows and surprisingly senator graham who's the head of the judiciary committee made some pretty interesting statements from mar-a-lago. so that's also disturbing. but people are going to have to
digest this, and i hope that certain facts come out in a very clear manner because there are some things to learn and digest. but at the same time, i don't want it to get so big and so lost that people just tune it out. >> what do you think? >> there is going to be a huge and already is a huge demand for transparency, and we're in government, so we know that there are a lot of things that are not going to be in that actual report that are going to be available to everybody. there's going to be a huge outcry for that. but then as you were saying earlier, it's incumbent upon our elected officials to say we understand you're not going to see everything, here's why, but here's what's relevant and important. >> either it's a fully transparent report -- and i would love to see that, i would read every single page because i was on that campaign, following that campaign for 510 days, and i would like to know what happened behind the scenes. i'd also like to know what robert mueller thinks of obstruction. that's an important question to
resolve given the way donald trump behaved over the past 2 1/2 years. but even if there is full transparency, i just wonder if there's anything that can be done right now to convince people that if something they don't agree with is actually the truth, on both sides. >> there's no longer a common truth among elected officials, among the media, among voters. we choose where we want to hear our truth from. >> who brought us down here? wasn't donald trump lying over and over and over again that got us to this point and tearing down the integrity of institutions and forcing journalists to push back and defend themselves because he's gone after us and attacked us or forcing congress to be in a defensive crouch because they're trying to get information and he refuses to give it to them, threatening republicans with personal attacks and taking them out of the running for their own elections if they don't fall in
line, or does it go back farther? >> you know what, i think it goes back a bit farther. and i think that the anger and the angst, the distrust has been brewing for a very long time. there are people going independent because they didn't believe either party had the answer to what they were looking for. i think bernie sanders tapped into a lot of that and i think donald trump did, but i actually think if donald trump were not there, he would have been created because there was so much anger, and a lot of that, quite frankly, and i will say a lot of that started to me during the obama administration because there was so much distrust of who he was not just as president but as a man. not even from here. having to show his birth certificate. when we got to that place, then to me it seemed like all bets are off. now we're asking a sitting president to show us his birth certificate. from that point on, i felt we are in a place that we're not going to be able to come back from, and i think that's in many
ways what got us here. >> susan, basil, guys, thank you very much. nice spending a saturday with you. not so bad at all. go to work. up next, the known knowns and the unknowns. ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪
different generations get the same quality of customer service that we have been getting. being a usaa member, because of my service in the military, you pass that on to my kids. something that makes me happy. being able to pass down usaa to my girls means a lot to both of us. he's passing part of his heritage of being in the military. we're the edsons. my name is roger zapata. we're the tinch family, and we are usaa members for life. to begin your legacy, get an insurance quote today.
the mueller investigation may be wrapped, but investigations into president trump and his associates are far from over. president trump and his voeshts far from over. there have congress, sdny and state attorneys general. joining me is deputy assistant attorney general at the justice department under president obama, elliott williams. erin, what are you watching out for? >> we just got news that there was this caucus call on the hill. basically the readout we got was pretty much a strategy call. there was no real time line about when barr might be sending this summary to congress. we've also learned the white house is also is not expecting to learn anything. they're sitting back and waiting as well. everyone is sort of just waiting and wondering when this thing might come from barr. we got some indication that that
sort of summary might make its way to congress tomorrow morning. so at this point nothing else today, but tomorrow might be a big day. >> so i am getting a bit more information on that as well, kasie hunt has just sent a reporting note about what exactly happened on that call. and basically it was nancy pelosi heading it, and then the chairs of the various committees saying that they want full transparency. it seems pretty clear that anything short of the full report is not going to be acceptable by democrats. >> i think absolutely. nothing will be acceptable. let's not forget, congress, even setting aside this big impeachment question, whether they will assess what the president should be removed from office, but to oversee the executive branch. one of the things they will be looking into is all the things that plans mueller was not able to charge criminally. i worked in congress, i worked
for the senate judiciary committee. calls like this aren't that uncommon where they will get together just to figure out where they stand right now. what are they saying publicly or also what do they know? we've been talking about this throughout the day, but members of congress might not be entirely engaged in it. i don't want to cause too much speculation. one more thing, some of the committee chairs sent document preservation requests to the administration to make sure that all of this information that mueller might have pulled together in the context of this investigation gets saved and not shredded. >> they sent a document request to the doj to make sure all of this is there. i think the question is, erin, how far are democrats willing to go? how far do they want to go when it comes to getting answers not only from what is in this mueller report, but more investigations into the president? how much time do they want to be spending on that in the run-up to 2020?
>> it seem to me they've indicated at least so far that they're willing to go to great lengths to open new investigations, to get as much of the report out there, not only to members of congress, but to the public as possible. now, we'll get a better understanding how those wishes may or may not change going forward in the next couple months, especially with the lead-up to 2020. and as we get more readout or any indication what might be in the actual report. there are still a lot of unknowns out there about how detailed the report is, whether or not we'll get all of our questions answered, these tentacles of the investigation. presumably there's material in there that has to do with classified information, counterintelligence investigations. so we'll just have to wait and see whether barr decides to include that in his summary. as congress gets a better idea of what's actually in the report, they'll be able to better determine how to move forward strategy wise for 2020.
>> congressman adler said he'd be willing to subpoena robert mueller to get him in front of their committee if he's not satisfied with what william barr is offering? >> there's a long tradition in the justice department where i worked too of try to work things out before you reach the subpoena point. first you ask him nicely, and then you ask him with a threat, and then you do a transcribed interview. when all else fails, you reach a subpoena. i don't think the committee or congress wants to go there just yet because there are many ways to secure the information. you can even get it in writing. you could do it in private in a closed hearing or whatever. and a subpoena ratchets up for everybody. and you just don't want to go there. it's like defcon 1. first they'll ask and then starts the negotiations process. >> what about the investigations that are still out there, the sdny, state attorneys general? >> right. look, i've said before, i think
whatever's happening in the southern district of new york is a far greater threat to the president's day-to-day existence. finance, the trump organization, the inaugural committee, and all these things that are happening in the state of new york. also remember, they have a broader purview. mueller was only looking into russian intrusion, but not the world of federal crimes or federal wrongdoing or even civil endorsement that could be found in new york. >> there's cohen, that case that cohen's already pleaded guilty. there's the nutrition, there's whatever gates is cooperating on. we don't know what that will be. so there's still more out there. roger stone's trial coming up in the fall as well. elliott williams, thank you very much for joining us. erin bunco as well. first a quick programming note. tonight at 6:00, joy reid will have a special edition of "a.m. joy," p.m. joy, if you will.
ari melber is live after that. and tomorrow ari is going to break down what it all means and what comes next. remember, we could get this summary tomorrow. watch this special coverage starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. also, i will be back from 3:00 to 5:00 tomorrow as well. tune in for that. guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard.
you're smart,eat you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out
i'm katy tur. tune in tomorrow from 3:00 to 5:00. i will be back. now i'm going to turn it over to referendum al sharpton and a special edition of "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to this special edition of "politicsnation." exactly 24 hours ago, robert mueller threw a live political grenade into the department of justice right to the attorney general's office. after nearly two years, nearly 200 charges, and 34 indictments, special counsel robert mueller has finally delivered his report on alleged collusion between russia and president trump's 2016 campaign. they've delivered it to attorney general william barr who will not be releasing his findings to