tv Up With David Gura MSNBC March 24, 2019 5:00am-7:00am PDT
filling in for david guirra. stay tuned. hello, everyone. welcome to a special edition of "up." >> the count down is on. everybody, all eyes are on attorney general william barr as he remains the sole individual in possession of the mueller report, and only he will determine who else gets to see it. >> attorney general barr should be proceeding this weekend to convey to the house and senate judiciary committees the principle conclusions of the report. >> and the democrats are gearing up for a fight holding an emergency meeting to strategies their next move. >> we need to know the underlying evidence so that congress can fulfill our oversight missions. >> meanwhile, forget march
madness. it was mueller madness on the campaign trail. take a listen to this. >> we've got to see the report. >> it needs to be made public, all of it. >> it's sunday march 24th, and when it comes to the mueller report waiting is the hardest part. >> we just to wait and see. >> while we all wait and see. >> but the wait may soon be over, we think. we could be just hours away from the release of attorney general william barr's summary of the report. after 22 months of investigating possible obstruction of justice by president trump and whether his campaign assisted in the russian interference in the 2016 election robert mueller has delivered his verdict. the report has been described as comprehensive by an official according to "the washington post." yesterday the attorney general and his deputy rod rosenstein clocked in at the department of justice to work on this promise barr made congress made friday. quote, i am reviewing the report and i anticipate i may be in a
position to advice you of the special counsel's principle conclusions as soon as this weekend. >> but as lawmakers wait, a political showdown could be brewing as democrats signal they want more than principle conclugs. speaker nancy pelosi telling her caucus in an emergency conference call congress requires the full report and underlying documents so that the committees can proceed with their independent work including oversight and sledlegislating t address any issues the report may raise. >> as the clud of the mueller investigation begins to lift "the new york times" is reporting this. federal and state prosreports pursuing about a dozen other investigations that largely grew out of mueller's work all but ensuring a threat will continue to loom over the trump presidency no matter what.
ken, obviously sunday morning here. expecting something from bill barr, the attorney general in the next couple of hours or so. we all hope, of course. tell me what you know so far, ken? >> reporter: good morning. well, we know that president trump was playing golf yesterday attorney general will yr barr and rod rosenstein were at the justice department reviewing this report. and signs are pointing robert mueller wrote a comprehensive report, as "the post" says, which is not something that was 100% certain before we started this process. it was very possible mueller was going to submit a bare bones document. the question is what exactly will we see today? what is the term "principle conclusions" mean? the way barr characterized is he's going to explain the people mueller decided not to procesece and the reasons why. he also said there was another
category of information that he will take longer to release because he needs to consult with people about it. that's the stuff that congressional democrats really want to see because it may involve sensitive intelligence that goes to this question whether donald trump or anyone around him was compromised by russia. that would be short of a criminal conspiracy, but it would still be disconcerting if mueller and the intelligence community concluded that anyone around the president was under the influence of a foreign power. >> i want to bring in the rest of our panel to break all this down for us. a former chair of the national bar association. let me begin with our legal question of the day which is taken a general idea of how extensive this report may have been, 22 months, hundreds of pages, thousands of pages to say the least. is it realistic that you could digest this, one attorney general can digest this in a
course of roughly 48 hours to provide a comprehensive analysis of it or summary of it to the congress? >> well, i think it would be a summary and it depends on how many other people are working with william barr and rosenstein. but, again, all they're doing is providing a summary, something the democrats don't want but a summary in 48 hours, sure. but again, he didn't promise it on sunday. we might be looking at monday ortuesday. we'll see. >> take us through exactly what's happening inside the attorney general's office, from what you can understand? and obviously we heard from ken dilanian mueller issued a comprehensive report to -- ken dilanian. >> he might have. >> but he issued it to bill barr. what exactly do we think? >> i would imagine barr has assembled his team. he's got a team of attorneys looking at it and trying to go
through and it and assess what's in there, whether or not there are actually any conclusions and any things that are still open. are there any other investigations that perhaps mueller has handed over to the southern district of new york, to the district of virginia and a variety of things. and what he's looking to do is synthesize that information and put out a report. but we already know from the democrats that they're not interested perhaps in a summary. they want the full thing. and i think that as americans we should want that. as taxpayers we paid for this investigation. it's been over 22 months. there's no reason we should not see it, particularly since this investigation goes to the core of our democracy. we already know that russia has meddled with our investigation. the question here is to what extend, if any, did trump or anyone else in the campaign play a role in that? >> surely if there were more questions to be asked about any
possible collusion or obstruction of justice, would that necessarily have been made clear by bob mueller before shutting down this investigation, now that it is officially over? >> here's what the mueller report is, and we will never know what's in this incarnation the mueller report. first, it's confidential. second, it contains classified information as well as grand jury material, so we will likely never see that. so the original form that was submitted, we will not know. in terms of collusion, that may be contained in the declamation decision, because really that's what the mueller report is. sure it's a report of prosecutorial decisions but be largely knows those, why? because mueller has been indicting people for months now. we know exactly who's been indicted and the story mueller's been telling. the real meat what we would like
to learn about is the declamation decisions. >> why he would decline to go any further or not prosecute? >> which is actually something pretty standard in the doj. it's just not made public. so those declamation decisions cover a wide range of conduct. it could be people who did bad things and it rises just to the level of indictable defense but not quite there or people just t tangentally involved. >> but if i may, those facts supporting the declamation, can you're absolutely right ability, those facts are still reviewable. they may be spawning investigations. and remember congress is there. they can take that information about why the declamation was there and they could further investigate.
they could subpoena those records. they could bring those witnesses in including mueller and that's a big deal. that's the power, the other power of this report. >> hey, ken, here's what we know about the attorney general. he believes in the executive presidential powers. he has called the president's office -- he has called the president really the executive branch. so talk us through how that's going to be involve said in his decision making not only what congress sees but what the people see as well? >> i will answer that, but i just want to say one thing. in terms of the declamation the biggest thing is there a declamation memo on president trump, and does it say we had evidence that president trump attempted to obstruct justice but we could not indict him because of that olc that a president cannot be indicted. he has a reputation to protect. he has articulated, though, that
he believes there's only so much of this that he could release. he's going to do so within the rules. and as danny says, the rules are very specific about what can and can't be released here. and there's classified information in this reports. there's grand jury information in this report, but there's also a congress demanding answers. and the taxpayers paid for the investigation. there's no way congressional democrats are going to be satisfied with any summary that william barr issues today or six months later a more detailed summary. they want it all, and i think it is possible to declassify this information. and also possible to get a ruling from a judge that grand jury information can be turned over. >> this is somewhat lose-lose situation for the attorney general. no one's going to be completely happy with what comes out of this report. >> of course. and that's something the attorney general has to be prepared for. that's his jock. and that's why doj folks are rule followers. that's why we can reasonably
anticipate they're not going to break with olc opinions or doj policy. and they will go to the regs. the regs govern everything, and a.g. barr will deliver a summary of the findings within the rules. andee has sa and he has said he wants to make as much of it available as possible. what revealed will be critical is not necessarily criminality, but it's important to stress that the fieptding of a crime is neither a necessary nor sufficient ground for impeachment. >> let me get your thoughts on the politics of all this. obviously if you're on one side of the aisle you may be looking at this and saying this is the end of an investigation. others may be saying as scott was recommending or suggesting that this is the beginning of more questions and witnesses.
legally speaking where do you see it? >> i think you're right. i think this is just the beginning. we all know there are more than a dozen other investigations involving the trump organization, the trump inauguration committee and a variety of other things surrounding donald trump. and i think it's important to not forget that. you have the southern district of new york involved. you have new york attorney general involved, perhaps the manhattan da, district of virginia. >> would they have access to that information for their investigation or would they have to do it on their own? >> it depends on what mueller has kicked over to them during the fact finding process. i think this is just the beginning, but i think it's important to note congress recently held a vote. 420 congress members voted for this report to be released. and we have on record congress men and women saying listen, we think it's important for the american public to see this report. and daniel of course is correct, my highly esteemed colleague
here is what needs to be redacted, what needs to be classified obviously not not be released or shared with the public. >> you know, the democrats and republicans say they want this report released. the next fight is going to be whether the dems or house rather subpoenas not just mueller but the whole report and the documents that support it. look for that. if it can't be resolved and i doubt it can be resolved, look for them to be in the federal court and try to convince a federal judge or a federal circuit judge to turn over these documents in full. >> and we have precedent with special counsel reports being released. ken starr report was released, you know, chapter and verse. >> but the rules have changed a bits since the ken starr. >> that's right. the independent counsel statute was a totally separate body of law. that is not what mueller is operating under. and even the waco situation, in that situation the regulations called for transparency. that is not the case here.
they are not dpugoverned by the same set of regulations. >> the people want it. give the people what they want. >> give it time. >> all right, guys, we have a lot more to break down. and first of all ken dilanian, thank you very much. coming up, gleeful and jubilant is how some people are describing republicans this weekend for the conclusion of the mueller investigation. but just how will donald trump react to the news? he's been quiet on twitter, at least. his former campaign manager is already giving us a clue. >> 675 days, one year, ten months and six days, $40 million of taxpayer money wasted. this witch hunt is finally over. d this witch hunt is finally over.
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president trump remaining remarkably quiet when the comes to the mueller report. "the washington post" reporting the commander in chief was ensconced for the weekend in palm beach, florida. trump exuded opmism while playing golf. at the urging of his advisers, though, he also exhibited uncharacteristic caution from declaring victory prematurity. as we wait on attorney general barr next move trump supporters, though, are claiming apparent victory.
steven bannon wrote in an e-mail that the president would weaponinize the mueller report to bludgeon democrats. expect him to come off the chain. we have an experts panel to break it all down for us, but mike, give us the very latest reality check, if you will, on what rour hearing coming out of the west wing? >> well, we're not hearing much from president trump anyway. the drought is over. the innocuous tweets from the president. they're going over it this weekend as they had all day yesterday, and of course as we've been reporting we're expecting to hear whatever it is that they're going to transimate to congress and the media sometime later today. but our kristen welker has talked to three sources in the white house about this twitter
drought. she says advisers are encouraging the president to stay off of twitter. there had been and have been no mueller related tweets since friday. at least cresten's reporting that at least there are no more indictments. but the point is you can't spike the football yet, and the president seems to be adhering to that. his as of 8:01 this morning just about 20 minutes ago, good morning, have a great day. and then inevitably at 8:02 following that just a little later with make america great again. so the president maintaining a message -- >> are you sure this is the president tweet something. >> exactly. message discipline relatively rare for this white house and this president. >> he wakes up this morning and he's like i got it, everybody, here's what i'm going to put out there. mike, stick with us. who knows the president may be tweeting again in just a couple of minutes.
francesca, i'll start with you on this one. how likely is it the administration is going to prevent certain things coming out from the mueller probe? >> well, sounds like the president thinks it's going to be a great day. >> we did hear him last week or so i believe saying he want everything out there. >> yes, absolutely. and i think as far as he's concerned at this point they believe it could help him to have everything out there. now, democrats clearly think if they could get all the information and the underlying evidence from this probe and put it out there then they can continue to pick through that. and even folks who weren't indicted by mueller, they might be able to find other evidence connecting them to possible crimes. what's a little ironic at this point with the republican party and president he's spent so much time saying robert mueller is conflicted and he's probably a bad guy and surrounded by prosecutors and so on and so forth. and now what you're hearing the republican party say is, look, the rule of law prevailed,
robert mueller is a great guy we need to listen to him. and now it's democrats saying we need to see the evidence and recheck his work. >> releasing the full report, redacted classified information, what have you, giving tidbits of it to members of congress, maybe giving an advanced copy of it to the white house, what is the worst-case scenario, and what is the best case scenario? besides the obvious situation of him releasing it, but what should he do to make sure he satisfies everybody's demands right now. >> there's 0% chance he satisfies everybody. it reality here is if he releases everything republicans are probably not going to be happy about it. if he does redact a lot of it, democrats are not going to be thrilled with that either. it's a really difficult
situation for him, and that's why i think we need to be patient here. i think he's dealing with this right now trying to fig orout what exactly he can say. he has to go through it and basically decide what exactly there is. every scenario is kind of worst case and every scenario is kind of best case for him because this has been so politicized and weaponized. you see democrats basically saying if this is not given to us in a sufficient wantly trance parent way we're going to lose our minds here. >> it's almost certain they're going to try to bring robert mueller before them to testify. they're saying, yes, the democrats, that until they hear from his month is what i was hearing yesterday that he was not pressured in anyway to come to these conclusions by william barr or the white house at large, they're not going to look at this report and necessarily believe everything it says about the president and his associates.
>> they're requesting to preserve the documents and all the findings that mueller had in case. >> so for how long have we been waitsing to hear from robert mueller? not a peep, not a single leak from anybody surrounding robert mueller in this investigation. >> if he's called before congress he doesn't have to mean choice tuesday say no, but there can be of course be calls of executive privilege here. and now the irony of this is even though we don't know exactly what he's said other than the public indictments that we've already seen, everyone is declaring victory here already. if the sun rises in the morning it's a big win for us. but the reality here is we don't actually know what's going to be said here. and he could decide it to the country's advantage to be out there speaking. >> it'll also be interesting to
see how the white house lawyers and president's personal lawyers respond to this in the coming days. >> when we talk about gop strategy there's gop, mitch mcconnell of the world and so far hear agsort of cautious response so far, and then we have the cory lewandowskis of the world and steve bannens of the world basically declaring a victory. >> and he has other allies of his -- >> who are surrogates. >> but beyond declaring victory they're claiming this investigation proves that everything was all just out to get the president and clearly that he did nothing wrong. >> what we already know what the next two years i think are going to look like in the lead up to 2020. >> i think it's going to be a central campaign issue. we'll see. up ahead, everybody, how 2020 hopefuls are working to get
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for the 2020 presidential nomination is demanding a public release of special counsel bob mueller's report. first they took to twitter and then they took to the campaign trail. >> my reaction is it needs to be made public. >> what we really need is to make it public. >> everybody needs to get a chance to read the mueller report. it needs to be made public, all of it. >> so one 2020 contender is actually taking things a step further. senator kamala harris calling for barr to come before congress and testify. >> we should evidence that supports that report. >> dems struggle to set themselves apart in a growing field. christina, i'm going to start
with you on this one. let's just drop the general question here, and howthy think they're going to handle what comes out of this? >> we still don't know exactly what's in it. we have some ideas, right? but i think, you know, kamala harris actually going a step firth door separate herself from the pack saying, yes, the american people need to know what's in the report but she's also a as a prosecutor is saying now i want to see barr in front of the congress to actually testify and make sure under oath because we know unfortunately the president has surrounded himself with quite a few men willing to lie for him and lie under oath as we've seen in the purp walk of his inner circle. >> do you think this actually matters to voters? when you're out there on the campaign trail and talking to people about health care jobs, the economy, what have you, do you think people there are judging, caring what these democrats are doing when it
comes to the mueller report? >> when we just look at these clips, we saw something interesting. every single one of these people weighing in were weighing in after reporters asked them these questions. these folks are not talking about, you know, on the trail in part of their speeches. this is not something they're bringing up. voters care about this, they're following this, but this is simply not the main issue for them. depending on what the report says, how the president reacts, what happens in the next few weeks that could certainly change. the first thing they say isn't what's mueller up to, what's the next thing with russia, they say i want to talk about the economy, health care, national security. and that's what the candidates have been talking about here. again, when prompted they have no problem talking about it. but it's not as if anyone's out there saying collusion, collusion 2020. >> they talked about the fact they spoke with voters and what their concerns were most on the
campaign trail, what they wanted to hear from these candidates and the mueller report didn't come up at all. they had no concern for mueller report erits findings. >> i actually heard in new hampshire kamala harris warning it could happen in this election. but it wasn't putting it into the context of president trump whatsoever. democrats, this is dangerous thing for them. because on the one hand there is some talk in the democratic party of impeachment. we know beto o'rourke has brought that up. but on the other hand voters don't want to necessarily go that route. that would connect the president not just to this but any possible criminal activity, but the other track is to try and beat him in the 2020
presidential election. and that's the response you're now hearing from those 2020 candidates is to say, well, it's on the congress to do that other thing, like i'm going to focus on wiping the election. >> is there a strategy here for any of the democrats running in 2020 to possibly take trump on and use this? kristen gillibrand, for example, her name has not been a name that comes up on people's mind when asked, and her names did not come up as one of the first names. the is there a strategy for someone to break out of the pack and announce i'm going to take trump on. is that a smart strategy? >> for her, yes, because she's trying to sort of say i'm going to take on trump. but this is the problem within the democratic party or the division within the democratic party. mueller is sort of out there, it's important and important to some but not to all. and these candidates have to sort of market themselves in the governance phase buts also primarily in the campaign phase
first, right? so they're presenting sort of two strategies. one, i can beat trump, but two, i have a vision for the democratic party. and that's what democrats are listening for. some want impeachment, some think it's a distraction. others think what exactly are you going to do about immigration, about the economy, undoing a lot of these draconian trump policies actually hurting our financial brackets, right? so i do think that these candidates are trying to weave a fine line between taking on trump and winning in 2020. but also what are you going to do if you get into the white house? >> i think one thing that will be very telling here is how the next few days or potentially weeks play out. these are people who are very serious politicians, but who will essentially say, listen, i need something that's going to distinguish my campaign from anybody else's. maybe it should be this moment
where i'm going to take on trump. >> actually what's interesting about that, though, is that beto o'rourke has sort of walked his impeachment comments back. and now he's saying the message i said before, which is, well, the congress should look at that and i'm no longer in congress so i'm going to focus on beating him at the ballot box. lots to talk about, everybody. >> and make sure to tune in later for more 2020 reaction when reverend al sharpton interviews. don't miss it all right here on msnbc. and coming up, mueller's investigation may have wrapped up but trump, his children and his associates may not be out of legal trouble yet. the investigations ensnaring the president and his family and organizations. we're going to break that all down next. nizations. we're going to break that all down next. but i don't have to clean this,
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the mueller report is in, and though we now know there will be no new indictments from mueller's office at least it doesn't mean the prosecutions are done. in fact the mueller probe are responsible for launching some several of the ongoing investigations engulfing the trump administration and the organization. "the new york times" reports most of the investigations focus on president trump or his family business or a group of advisers and associates. according to court records and interviews with people briefed on the investigations they are being conducted by officials
from los angeles to brooklyn. back to our panel here. former chair of the national bar association, msnbc legal analyst and attorney midwin charles. guys, lots to talk about here in terms of where the secondary investigations go if you want to call them secondary investigations. but let me get a general idea from you, danny. what is it you want to see come out of the mueller report in terms of facts and questions that can be picked up? >> some have already been picked up by for example the southern district of new york. it's interesting you called them secondary in the sense that they may flow from the mueller investigation. but they are hardly secondary in the sense they pose the greater threat to the trump administration and to the trump circle, the folks that hang around trump. they need not fear so much the
mueller investigation. it is the southern district of new york. it is the state authorities. it is michael cohen who is now cooperating as best he can who is now singing to get a reduction in sentence after his sentencing date, which is possible under the federal rules. so these are the things that trump needs to be the most concerned about. so they are secondary in a sense. >> chronlogically i'm thinking -- or at least that was how it was presented when the news first came out that michael cohen had been handed over to the sdny -- they're just as serious. >> and you can measure it because the mueller -- the mueller investigation was cabined to russia collusion and other very specific things. the southern district of new york and other u.s. attorneys offices know no such scriptures. they can investigate any violations of federal law. >> the southern district is really independent, if you will. they always have been.
i was a state prosecutor for the state of new york manhattan, and we had joint investigations and worked with them on a regular basis and they can be really independent. also remember cohen as you say is still cooperating. and there are investigations that have been delegated to the southern district. the investigation into the inaugural committee, the campaign finance. i mean, donald trump worked in new york, his campaign originated in new york, and, you know, he lived in new york, right? and developers are representative of a lot over the years, i've got to tell you when the government starts looking into your business practices, which donald trump said that is the line. because he's in new york, he's a billionaire -- >> allegedly. >> if you could find something -- allegedly, of course. but those investigations are more dangerous including the state. she subpoenaed the documents. >> i do think some of the moegs concerning things that can
feasibly come out of the southern district of new york on what michael cohen has been talking about and prosecuting for? >> like he said a few things. campaign financial violations, how the trump organization was operate, what sort of relationships did they have with foreign agents. there's just a variety of things. but to go back to one of the things he said the state inquiries i think are far more serious. why? because anybody who was indicted by the state or found guilty by the state is not pardonable by this president. and i think that's something that we know is probably weighing quite heavily on trump and his associates and the trump organization. and i think it's important to note that the trump organization is a private organization. and that, i think, is why trump seems to be so surprised about being under scrutiny. he's never really been under this type of scrutiny. and i think he's probably thinking -- >> because he operated autonomously. >> exactly.
i think he's probably thinking the worst thing he could have done is run for president. because i just don't think he understood the level of scrutiny that a presidential candidate ought to be under. and when it's a democracy your life should be an open book. >> look at what the they're looking at the state level. his state practices, his insurance practices. >> possible bank fraud as well. >> and he not only can be prosecuted but watch this, the feds in new york, the new york southern district is the only u.s. attorney who has implicated donald trump in being a cocospirator or de facto coconspirator with cohen involving the hush money payments. if he loses he could still be prosecuted by doj. >> last summer, at the end of the summer it was still an open question whether or not the government, whether federal prosecutors really took seriously violations of campaign finance law. because the lesson of the john
edwards prosecution is you can bring an indictment, but you can't always get a conviction. well, the answer to that question changed dramatically when michael cohen stood up in court and said i committed a crime and it was campaign finance law and i did it essentially at the direction of the president, and not long after the doj essentially in filings adopted that position. that's what we've known for many months now, that the government believes that michael cohen chitted a crime, and that the president, maybe not the president yet directed him to do so. and one final thing. why is that important, yes that was preoffice conduct, but there's a recent case that suggests pre-office conduct is indictable. and secondly pre-office conduct that affects the electoral process is something the framers explicitly planned on being empeachable. >> i agree. >> is it safe to say white house counsel is now preparing a
defense when it comes to the southern district because they recognize the damage that can be done to the presidency. >> well, their response to the mueller report, they certainly are planning for that. and when that comes out, how much comes out depends on how much is released in the mueller report. but they've been attacking it as a political problem for two years right now. so they want to insulate the president and say he can't be convicted of a crime or can't be charged. but remember that's a doj memo. that's not a law. it'll be a real test to see if anyone one of these prosecutors whether state or federal -- >> who follows rules more than prosecutors and doj? they're rule followers. they live by the rule of law. this is the risk we run when we have lawyers. we've run out of time. >> this is very different. and this is very serious. >> thank you guys very much. appreciate it. >> new details on what's happening behind closed doors of
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refrain candidate trump used often at campaign rallies and today that question is more important than ever as we look to attorney general barr. which side of the coin does he fall on? "the new york times" reports mr. barr and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein quote were cloistered inside the justice department yesterday and debating how to present the findings. "the times" reported that mueller was not part of the process. joining us is katie banner of "the new york times" who has a byline on that report. katie, good morning. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you. >> it seems like the attorney general is being forthcoming with regards to the mueller report, but he's questioned the obstruction of justice portion of the investigation. talk to us about that. >> that's correct. he wrote a long memo saying that he feels because the president is the executive branch and all of power rests in him, it's hard to make the argument that the
president could obstruct justice simply by firing one of his deputies in that case jim comey. and he excoriated the antitrust, and keep in mind barr was on the board of the at&t and he criticized for moving against a democratic lawmaker in new jersey so he has been critical for the -- of the department in the past. i would not say this was an isolated case. >> so that brings up an interesting point about how much the president knows about william barr himself. i know you have been reporting on what he has been doing as he awaits mueller's findings like the rest of us. there have been some speculation that he's been canvassing friends and allies, talking to them, trying to find out what they know about william barr. how much is the president really in the dark here between all of his network of lawyers that know all of the individuals the back and forth, the communications, and what he may know as of this afternoon? >> well, i would hope that the president is not in the dark about william barr because he's an extraordinarily well known
lawyer in washington, d.c. his record is very public. he was the attorney general in the '90s. he has been very tough on crime and he thinks of himself as much as possible as a straight down the middle rule of law kind of attorney. which is why i think we see barr being so careful here. he doesn't want to do anything that could be considered a misstep because he knows that he and the department will be under tremendous scrutiny. even in the results of the report are to the president's liking he'll follow all of the protocols. he won't do a secret 1:00 a.m. phone call with the president because that can trigger inspector general investigations and other things and accusations of improprietary and he doesn't want to do that. >> we have talk about the changes that have been made since other reports were issued versus the report issued now. go ahead. >> well, i mean, in terms of changes inside the justice
department under barr he has done a lot to raise morale. if you think of the last two years, you have had the president calling the employees traitors, deep staters, horrible people. you have had inside the justice department employees questioning jeff sessions as a leader. there was a tremendous amount of discontent, he came in to meet as many employees as possible and make people want to work there again. >> thanks, katie. and when we come back, waiting for barr. we go to the department of justice, white house and capitol hill as democrats huddle together to plot their next steps. new details on the plan ahead after the break. stay with us. the break. stay with us ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪
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with welcome to a special edition of "up", i'm ayman mohyeldin filling in for david gura. >> i'm yasmin vossoughian. nation on high alert. key details of the mueller report are expected to be released as soon as today. after a marathon day of the justice department reviewing it. >> when it does come out, we can still expect it to be broad strokes trying to answer the big questions. >> the democrats making demands refusing a confidential briefing because they wanted it to be public and officially calling on law enforcement agencies to preserve all documents related to that report.
>> the report right away is what we're demanding. >> and this as the president's supporters declare a victory saying no more indictments are a win, but legal experts say not so fast. >> the important chapter has concluded the mueller investigation but it's only the end of the chapter and now there are further chapters to be whien. >> we are standing by for attorney general barr to reveal to congress the summary of the mueller report. >> while we don't know what that could include, we doe no that barr is -- we do know he'll release it this afternoon. he'll send out the report out via e-mail. let's hope they don't get hacked. democrats are pushing back and asking for all investigation to be preserved. and house speaker nancy pelosi demanding transparency rejecting any classified briefings. the president has not though publicly commented on the report yet.
>> but he did break his silence on twitter a short time ago. tweeting for the very first time since mueller delivered his report to the department of justice. good morning, have a great day. >> and what a day it's going to be. good morning, indeed. it could be a big news day and we have a full team keeping track of it all. some are shaking their heads. julie ainsley, justice reporter with us. good to talk to you this morning. talk us through what to expect today and when we can feasibly hearing from bill barr. >> well, all expectations are on this afternoon for when the attorney general, william barr, here will finish his review of the mueller report and send out that broad stroke summary to congress and the media and the public will get that at the same time. that will answer some of the big questions lingering over this. hopefully, the collusion question namely. he will also get into mueller's declination decisions. that means the decisions that the special counsel made not to
prosecute certain individuals in the trump campaign orbit. so we'll be waiting by for that. when i left here yesterday officials told me that william barr would be coming back here this morning. and he's working hand in hand with deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. the officials have been very clear to point that out because they want to show that the attorney general is not the filter here between mueller and the public. he's also working with rod rosenstein who know have been overseeing this from the early stages. i think they think that gives it an extra lay of transparency and when the attorney general has to decide what other pieces of information to share, he'll consult with robert mueller himself. for today, we are waiting for that summary. we expect it to be this afternoon. >> julie, any idea of if he's back inside the justice department as of yet? >> i have not spotted him coming in this morning that doesn't mean they're not here. there are floors above where we are in the media. unlike congress, reporters can't
stake out offices here at the justice department. that's not allowed and you'll be escorted out. >> you mean you can't walk into the department of justice, wait in the hallway? >> hey, bill, you done yet? just checking. >> just knock on the door. >> stick with us. i want to head to the white house where mike viqueira is standing by for us. as you walked us through the last hour, the president is weighing in on twitter on the day ahead and the fact it will be a good one for him. to say the least. when could we expect to hear from the president on this and what are you hearing on how he's advised? >> let's started with the last part first. the president has been advised to stay off of twitter to maintain radio silence. of course he broke that at 8:00 with the relatively innocuous tweets. it's been 40 hours since he tweeted. good morning, have a great day
as you reported. then inevitably one minute later at 8:02, make america great again. still no mueller related tweets since friday. there is some sense of relief according to the reporting we have from kristen welker there are no more indictments over the course of the last 48 hours springing from that mueller probe or at least recommended by bob mueller. but they say you can't spike the football yet. the sources are telling her. look, the white house, the president for months has been trying to prepare the battleground to borrow a phrase from down at the pentagon. in other words, set expectations in the media and in the public that collusion is the bar here. if there's no collusion per se proven then it's a victory for the president. and in fact, we have seen the president's ally, steve scalise, trying to turn the tables and say now it's time to investigate the fbi for the grounds on which they went after the president. so a lot of people are going to
be spinning what we don't know anything at this at this point. the republicans will call it a vindication and democrats looking for an implication and the fight goes on in the southern district of new york. rick gates, paul manafort's number two, he has been referred to prosecution. this isn't over yet. everybody is on the edge of their seats. >> all right. let's bring in the panel in new york to break it down for us. tom winter from nbc investigations. reporter here, msnbc legal and former assistant watergate prosecutor rick ackerman and it's great to have you with us. i know we have a difference of opinion on how we see the mueller report on this table. we know that from the conversation before the show began. so first of all, nick, why and how do you assess and see the mueller report and where we go from here? >> well, what i see is what i'm hopeful that attorney general barr will do the right thing. so far he's adhered to the
regulations. he's done what he's supposed to do. what i'm hopeful is he'll continue to do that and release the entire report. so that there is total transparency here. i mean, there may be some redactions because of national security reasons, because of classified information. but beyond that, even if it has to do with grand jury material i would hope they immediately go into the federal district court judge and get approval to release that. >> you see it differently? >> yeah, look, i think that what barr is going to do, he's going to push out the stuff that's most hopeful to his boss at first and if there's bad stuff we might see that in a couple of weeks or months. this top line thing that everybody is waiting for today it's going to tell us stuff we already know. who's been prosecuted, we know that. who hasn't been prosecuted, mueller has chosen not to indict donald trump or his family or anybody else in the administration directly on the central charge of conspiracy.
i am interested in why, like that'll be interesting to read. but in terms of the actionable results from this report, the issues about conspiracy and collusion have been in the public sphere for a while. the question was always is anybody going to hold these people accountable and mueller's answer at least for his part is no. >> tom, you're the first to report on air there aren't any more indictments as of yet. expand on how that isn't for the president, for his family and the businesses surrounding trump? >> first off, robert mueller's task was very narrowly defined in the grand scheme of things. he had to look at the 2016 meddling by the russian government and whether or not there was any sort of coordination or any sort of efforts to work together with the trump campaign. that was it. and so if there was any other criminal activity and you saw
robert mueller throughout this entire process really heed to the guidelines if there was any other criminal activity it went to other districts. michael cohen pleaded in a case that was not involving his office and that was the campaign finance reform but we learned when the search warrants became publicly docketed two weeks ago, in fact, that investigation did start with mueller's office. so the system there worked. and robert mueller followed the guidelines. so for the president if there's anything else that came up and it could be for anybody else that was associated with donald trump's campaign, for the president himself, people close to him, anything else that came up that had nothing to do with the 2016 collusion question that we have been talking about, all of that material is going to be farmed out to other federal jurisdictions to be prosecuted. that's the type of thing that might keep going here and we'll continue to see that keep going. >> you wanted to say something real quick? >> yeah. to follow-up on what tom is saying, what the facts are, what mueller finds is absolutely
critical. if it turns out that any of the other people in the campaign actually possessed the stolen documents from the democratic national committee or involved in distributing them, that's not a federal crime that necessarily covers that conduct. whereas new york state outlaws the possession of stolen computer data. so you may wind up finding out it can be prosecuted by the new york state. >> i wanted to point out something because you mentioned it before. about robert mueller not holding people accountable. maybe there's nothing to hold people accountable for. it's not a guarantee that there was some sort of an effort of coordination. we know how things may look. but when we actually get down to the heart of the evidence, maybe there's nothing to hold people accountable for. >> well, it will be interesting to see if mueller didn'ts from cute because of lack of authority, because of lack of cooperation or because of lack of evidence. and you're going to the lack of evidence possibility. which is a possibility. but i think this is partially --
this is partially why we fail, right? it's because we keep trying to catch a potential rule breaker by sticking to the rules. donald trump has attacked this country like the joker. and bob mueller is like the very best and most noble version of commissioner gordon you can have. where is batman? because at some point he needs to come and deal with the joker, not commissioner gordon. >> okay. hold on a second with the great comic analogy. let me ask you this, nick, were you at all surprise -- correct me if i'm wrong an investigation that had so many central pieces of potential russian collusion, that people like donald trump jr., jared kushner, that they attended meetings were information was exchanged, they were never brought into the special counsel or never interviewed to our knowledge? is that not surprising did
not -- did not include these two people of such significance? >> it doesn't mean they didn't try. when you're a prosecutor and somebody who you want to speak to, the lawyer says my client is going to take the fifth amendment, what you would normally do is get from the client through the attorney a statement written up by saying if i come in i will assert my fifth amendment privilege on the ground that truthful answers might tend to incriminate me. we don't know if that happened here. that may be why they never went in to talk to him in the first place. again, that's why all of these facts are important. knowing all of these facts really will take us in a whole different stratosphere of being able to talk about this. >> i want to get back to the possible public disclosure of the mueller report. there's a possibility that it could be solely released to the gang of eight. nancy pelosi has voiced her concern with that and now she wants it to be disclosed to the greater congress in general. but there's concerns that if it's exposed to the greater congress in general but not to the public, if there's
classified information there could be leaks from that. is that not satisfactory that the only way to release it is to the gang of eight? >> i think that will be a dodge if they try to do that it -- do it that way. obviously there are standards and practices that do need to be redacted. malcolm nance has been saying it exactly right. if they have communiques from china, we don't need to know that they're from china. we need to know what the communiques say. and so they can redact the from china part of it. but everything else needs to be out. this is where i don't have your confidence necessarily in barr. we need to stop calling it the mueller report and call it the barr report because barr will tell us what he wants to tell us. hopefully, it will be enough that we have more information, but we don't know that he'll do that yet. >> if you had a chance to find out where or what questions next
that you would pose to bob mueller or bill barr as a journalist who covered this from day one, what are still some of the unanswered questions for you that we should be pursuing? >> well, i think one of my biggest questions has been answered and it goes to what we're talking about on the panel here is were there any kind of untoward motions to block the investigation? did rod rosenstein ever limit what could be done here, did matthew whitaker in his position as acting attorney general put a more limited scope on robert mueller? and from what we have heard from yesterday, what we saw in the letter that barr sent to congress is that the special counsel had concluded did an attorney general or an acting attorney general act in a way that would do that. so that question was answered. so i think it's important to remember that rod rosenstein who
oversaw this is in there with barr now. as far as further questions i would want to know more about the influence, the foreign influence still going on in this white house. that could continue as counterintelligence investigations and can continue after robert mueller. is there something affecting how policy is being conducted now because of people in the president's orbit? i think that's the lingering questions that might not be answered at the end of this. >> i think she's given us the perfect red carpet where we want to walk next and i think with respect to the classification issue, you know what, if not now then when? are we going to have this -- this is the most important thing to figure out. what did a foreign entity do to interfere in our election and did they have any sort of part in coordinating it? why are we keeping anything classified at this point? i know the people that i talked to and the law enforcement people i know are going to be
yelling at the tv when they see me saying that, and we have to say besides certain redactions, look get it out. >> better that they're yelling than throwing something at the tv. >> yeah. >> thank you, guys, so much. nick and ealy, stick around for us. the findings may be looming but that isn't stopping democrats from plotting the next steps. we head to capitol hill for new preparations ahead of barr's final word. f barr's final word any one else. any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish,
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welcome back, everybody. democratic lawmakers ready to go to war over the full release of the mueller report. 120 democrats are part of a conference call yesterday. plotting out strategies as they wait on word from the department of justice. on that call, house speaker nancy pelosi saying she would reject any kind of classified briefing, emphasizing the information must be shared with congress in a way that would allow lawmakers to discuss it publicly. americans deserve the truth. and attorney general barr is expected to release the first summary of the report this afternoon to congress. we of course are awaiting that. we have another jam-packed group with us. let's start off on capitol hill, nbc's national political reporter mike is standing by. >> well, it's very quiet here on capitol hill. the lawmakers are finishing up the one-week recess and they're
waiting for any signal from the justice department the principled conclusions from attorney general barr about what's in the mueller report that's going to help define both the political and the legal battlefield here on capitol hill going forward. we're hearing republicans cautiously optimistic. they had a conference call, house gop leadership on friday night where they were cautiously optimistic and heartened by the fact there were no additional indictments by mueller from democrats we're hearing two words a lot right now. transparency and scope. we'll start with scope. they want to remind the public that the mueller investigation actually had a very limited scope. he was charged narrowly with investigating collusion between the trump campaign and russian government officials in 2016 as well as possible obstruction of justice. they need to remind the public there are additional criminal investigations that have been farmed out to other jurisdictions and of course their own investigations that they have been ramping up in capitol hill. transparency, you referenced what speaker pelosi has been saying yesterday with lawmakers and in a letter to them saying
that any initial summary from the justice department is insufficient. they want to see not just the full report, but also the underlying do you wants in this. and jerry nadler for instance, ramping up their own investigations. he is making clear that they expect not only to get the report but underlying documents and prepared to fight all the way to the supreme court if necessary as part of the subpoena battle to come here. so we should remind everybody that lawmakers -- the democrats in particular here on capitol hill, they have already moved beyond in some ways this question of collusion and obstruction of justice. nadler's committee has launched a rule of law investigation involving political corruption and obstruction of justice and the intelligence committee under adam schiff they have expanded beyond russia to look at foreign influence involving the trump administration and the decision making including questions of financial leverage. they have been sending out the letters of nine different democrats leading the committees
in the house and the senate telling different entities you have to preserve everybody, reserve all documents potentially related to the mueller investigation that's just the beginning of the fight to come from democrats. >> mike, stick around for us. you teed it off perfectly for us. we are joined by matt welsh from reason magazine and a democratic strategist and political analyst and beth bowie. let's start with the transparency scope. beth, from what you're hearing where does congress go from here in terms of the priority? as mike mentioned it's transparency versus scope. but are they going to lock at the mueller report as an end all to this or the beginning? >> yeah, not an end all as all. as mike pointed out many different committees with different areas of jurisdictions already probing the president, his businesses, his family in addition to, you know, whatever happened with russia and its involvement in the 2016
campaign. however, i will add we have heard from many democrats on the hill up to now saying they were waiting for the mueller report to come and clarify where they wanted to take things next. if this -- if they don't get the information that they're asking for, whether they're just getting the small summary and not the underlying information, it's going to be -- they perhaps boxed themselves in a little bit to say well, we can't really -- we need that material to help us clarify what we're doing and yet we're not getting it. so hence the fight that mike is talking about, why they're going to press forward with this. one thing that's very interesting though about that conversation that pelosi had with the team yesterday, apparently the word impeachment has never come up. pelosi almost shut the door on impeachment unless there's something so egregious to come out about the president, and they seed they would not start that process. she did not bring it up, nor did other members of congress on that call. >> if the president feels exonerated by this mueller report, and he feels exonerated by the report, the gop will run
with that. first and foremost. secondly if it's not released in its full entirety, the demes have said they might recreate it over the next two years in the lead-up to 2020. that could be bad optics for the democrats to a certain extent. >> i think there's too much pressure on the transparency element of this. the fact that democrats run the house also leads to that. americans are going to want to see this. i have a hard time believing that somehow this is going to be strangled, right? if nothing else they could subpoena mueller and ask him under oath about what's in there. the president will say -- he's been saying he's been exxon rate for a -- exonerated for a long time. there's case that's even relevant to this case in which there was a decision by the department of justice not to prosecute a high profile politician and it didn't look very good and i'm talking about james comey and hillary clinton
in 2016. we don't know what that looks like or what it's going to be. of course after 22 months of a whole lot of people in this country, late night cable hosts or comedies, the hosts, basically saying this is christmas what was coming up here, right? we were thinking that robert de niro was going to deliver something. as if the president of the united states being a puppet of the kremlin is something worth celebrating so there's a lot of management of expectations here that are being managed down. i think that puts responsibility where it belongs which is not on some exogenous sweet meteor of death telling us what the future of what the trump presidency is going to be. it will be on us as citizens to decide what is the appropriate political punishment for a president who's lied about a lot of stuff. important stuff. but also on a political class that created the conditions under which donald trump might be popular. >> i'm curious to get your thoughts from the democratic perspective. is there a risk they overplay their hand as they go forward,
not knowing what we know about the report and what the findings are in all of the investigations that continue, but is there a risk that they may try to politicize where we go from here to the point we find ourselves back in the benghazi like situation, continuous investigations of something that produced nothing? >> sure. that's why the democrats are completely hesitant to say anything about impeachment and to use the word impeachment. even though if you consider the investigations happening and what the congressional commit e committees, six of them are looking into this family, the president, it would mirror what we would in the impeachment. people are looking back on bill clinton and looking at how everything around his impeachment actually created empathy around him and are hesitant to do that for donald trump. here's what will matter going into 2020. how it plays into the public messaging. who are we as americans, do we want someone in the white house who is clearly enriching
himself, using this job that is clearly a liar, that clearly -- six of his closest advisers and confidants were indicted. that's not something we should look away from. you hang out with crooks you're probably a crook. i think the conversation is about character and it's about how this president is enriching himself. i think if we talk about it the right way as democrats, people going into 2020 will be able to ask the questions for themselves what is the character of this person that is in the white house that's representing the white house? is this the kind of character that actually should be running our government? and so i think that the message is going to really matter? i think the investigations are extremely important. >> quickly. are you confident that the democrats will have the message? >> we'll see. it will evolve. >> thank you very much. stay with us for a little bit more. why trump may be worried about u.s. attorneys and attorney generals across the country. we'll talk to one state attorney
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federal level that are fighting for attorney general bill barr to make the special counsel's report public. 18 state attorney generals have urged the attorney general for transparency. as the top law officers in states across the country, we strongly urge the united states attorney general barr to immediately make public the findings of the mueller investigation. the american people deserve to know the truth. one of the signatures on that document is from michigan attorney general dana nestle. she joins us live this morning. thank you so much, attorney general, for joining us. i want to ask you why do you feel the need for the mueller report to come out to the public and how could that impact your line of work going forward from here? >> well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on today to discuss this. you know, the attorneys general that signed on to the letter and myself we feel it's incredibly important that the public know exactly what's in the report.
we're talking about 22 months of of this investigation. over $25 million in taxpayer dollars spent on this. you know, yielding somewhat 34 different individuals indicted. seven guilty pleas. six people within the trump inner circle. the american public has a right to know what's in that investigation. as does congress by the way. because, you know, as the agency that is tasked with deciding whether or not impeachment is proper or not, how can they possibly make that decision without having the full contents of the report and how can the american public have any kind of faith or confidence in their government ever again if we don't see what is in this report? it's incredibly important for us to have transparency in this process. so that we can have faith in what our government is doing. and in the highest office of the land. >> here's what charlie savage wrote, the makings of an
constitutional battle over the power to keep information from congress secret started to take shape on friday. what rights do the states and congress have to view this report? >> well, you know, think about it this way. if it's congress that decides whether or not impeachment is appropriate, they're really the prosecuting agency. it's the senate of course that would then try the case and they would be the jurors in the event that the house of representative impeached. i'm a prosecutor, as a state attorney general. i prosecute cases every day. well, now what if the investigating agencies, the state police, the county sheriff's department, or municipal agency conducted a nearly two year investigation but then refused to turn over the contents of that investigation to me so i could make a decision as to whether or not that case merited prosecution. that's really what it comes down to and it doesn't make any sense
for the attorney general not to provide that to congress. but i would argue likewise that it's incredibly important that the public at large be able to see this. so that even in the event that there are not, you know, facts that rise to the level of crimes for the purposes of an american society where we elect the united states president, shouldn't we have the opportunity to know what kind of conduct he was engaged in? >> so attorney general, let me ask you really quickly. you have sent the letter, signed on the letter. in the event you do not get the response that you want, that this report is made public, are you and your colleagues who have signed on to that letter prepared to go to court or pursue any legal measures or means that you have at your disposal to try and secure the release of that report based on the argument that you just made that it should be made available to the public? >> i think that the state
attorney's general will you know evaluate their options in the event it occurs and decide if that's a method to move forward. i can tell you for myself and for the other state ags that signed on the the letter i think we're going to use every tool in our disposal to make certain that the public at large have the opportunity to see the report that they paid for. >> all right. michigan attorney general dana nestle, thank you for joining us this morning. appreciate your time. i want to turn to carol lam from the southern district of california and former federal prosecutor. good to have you on. some of the criticism with regard to the mueller report, mueller has left a lot of loose ends and it will end up in the state courts. what's going to happen with the legal options regarding trump? >> well, we don't know what loose ends are out there at this point, and hopefully we'll more soon. if you looked at the possible impediments toward complete public disclosure of this report
there are four areas. grand jury information, information that might impact ongoing investigations. national security information and information that -- or testimony that the -- or documents that the president may say are subject to executive privilege. so those are really federal issues and at the end of the day if the justice department decides there are certain aspects that it can't reveal it's going to be come down to a federal court decision and possibly even a supreme court decision. with respect to the states though and grand jury information there actually is a provision in the grand jury rules where if there is a uniquely state crime that the federal officials believe is being committed or has been committed they can go to the court and say we would like to turn this grand jury information over to the state to pursue a state prosecution. we don't know if that's happened here. >> so carol, as a former federal
prosecutor when you look back at how the past 22 months have played out, i'm not sure if you heard the conversation earlier from our legal experts, how would you assess the stress of the legality of how everything has played out? are we in a place where you have concerns about a special counsel investigation, how that report is made public? there's a lot of debate about whether there's a legal basis for it to be made public. some of the questions may go to the supreme court, but how do you assess the stress under which this system has operated? >> yeah. it's a real kaleidoscope of issues here. a lot of this has to do with the histories, the experience, the background and the personalities of the two men involved, bob mueller and bill barr. and, you know, the whole nature of federal criminal prosecution is, you know, you stick to the
rules and you don't talk a lot about things that you can't prove. so the whole idea of a wide ranging report is a little bit against the nature of federal prosecutors to begin with. but, you know, it is what it is and there's probably a pretty voluminous report that exists out there. i think that so far, all the indications are that, you know, this has been responsibly handled. and we really don't know until -- you know, it's also not clear to me that the public is going to see exactly what goes to congress today. i mean, the letter that bill barr wrote on friday and sent to congress said, you know, to the -- to the committees said i hope to be in a position this weekend to give these conclusions to you. you know, then i'm going to have further discussions about what can responsibly be made public. but i think it's too early to judge that there's been some, you know, overrising of --
overriding of the justice system. >> once it gets to congress, we'll get some leaking of that. >> very may be that we get the word that congress has a summation in their hands and we're waiting for a report to come out. depends on who gets it. >> thank you so much. he has been out of view since the mueller report was sent to the attorney general so what has the president been up to this weekend? we got an update and it's not where he's been but who that may surprise you next. t. flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. into our subaru forester. we fit a lot of life (dad) it's good to be back. (mom) it sure is.
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all right. so what has president trump been up to this weekend while lawmakers and reporters anxiously await the release of the mueller report? he's headed out to the golf course yet again. he spent the weekend in mar-a-lago meeting with leaders from caribbean nations and dining with his family and he played golf yesterday and he partner you might wonder -- musician kid rock. you see a post there. who posted this photo with the president with the message -- >> he's the man. >> yeah. >> great. another great day on the links. what a great man. so down to earth and so fun to be with. keep america great. those were kid rock's words. he has been a long-time supporter of the president even
rolling out his own line of pro trump paraphernalia back in 2016. >> we are getting word -- breaking news. watching bill barr leaving his home. i imagine headed to the justice department to review the mueller report for the second day. hoping we get some report. >> i wonder if anyone shouted out any questions to him. >> yeah. he must have some tired eyes after reading that report to say the least. >> i wonder if he was allowed to take it home to continue reading it. >> i'm going to say no. a lot of classified information there. you can't take it home. you don't want your kids to get ahold of that thing. all right,s congress may not have received the top lines yet, but that hasn't stopped jerry nadler from slamming the limited scope that robert mueller operated under. that's next. that robert mueller operated under that's next. i'm missing out on our family outings because i can't find a bladder leakage product that fits.
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and to stop weeds before they start, also try roundup landscape weed preventer. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. welcome back. moments ago we got a preview of the political battle we're sure to see over mueller's report. listen to the top house democrats on the judiciary and the house intelligence committees. >> if you're not indicting something because you can't as a matter of law then you can't hold the president accountable. the only other institution that can is congress and you should not hide the evidence because that converts i want to the
cover-up. >> will you issue a subpoena? >> we'll try everything else first, but if we have to, yes. we'll certainly issue subpoenas to get that information. >> and you're going to be willing to take that all the way up to the supreme court if you have to? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> it was a mistake to rely on written responses for the president. that's more what the lawyer has to say than what the individual has to say. i can understand why the lawyers like rudy giuliani were fighting this. the president is someone who seems pathologically incapable of telling the truth for long periods of time. >> all right. our panel is back. it seems no matter what, jerry nadler will be putting up a fight no matter what comes out of the report and how much is not released. >> as well they should. they should have started fighting long before the report came out. what we need from democrats is some actual leadership. for too long they have been hiding behind mueller. hiding behind sdny.
hiding behind the lawyers to do their job which is congressional oversight. they got put in office on a mandate to do this work. now they have to lead and do this work. >> to this point i asked about prior, when you look at the scope of the investigation, robert mueller, i believe 30 -plus indictments. he even went after russian agents by name for involvement in interfering in our election. he wasn't able to present anything, at least that we know of, in terms of indictments so far with any americans involved in collusion with the russians. what does that say? isn't that significant, the fact that he had absolute power and rein to do what he wanted to but didn't produce indictments against americans on the issue of collusion. >> he was specifically focused on whether there was collusion. beyond the six people who were trump's cronies did he find other things. he's not going after it
directly. the conversation is bigger than that. this is why the government oversight committee and everybody in congress matters in terms of what they are investigating. we still aren't having real conversations about the fact that russians are meddling in our elections. donald trump may not have -- >> influencing our elections. >> having a complete propaganda and information war against our democracy. we are not having a big conversation about that. more importantly, we are not doing anything about it because the trump administration is celebrating the fact that he's not directly implicated today. what i hate to miss is the bigger conversation about what's happening with the russians in this particular specific probe. we need congress to keep going after donald trump to keep figure out if he's enriching himself through his job. i think he is. most of us think he is. >> that's a valid point. it's just a step away from the mueller probe for a moment. i'm focused on the issue of russian collusion. he didn't find anything about russian collusion involving the
americans or with americans. at least hasn't presented anything. >> that we know yet. >> let's be clear. he didn't find anything that justified a prosecution where he could prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt using the tools that are available. >> to him. >> under the federal criminal system. it doesn't mean -- >> that doesn't mean we won't see donald trump's name in the report. doesn't mean we won't see other names of americans in trump's orbit. >> it doesn't mean the state doesn't have the evidence. the criminal law on the state side with respect to computer data is stronger. >> which is why we need the underlying data. >> the mueller report hasn't been a dud. >> we haven't seen it yet. >> 35 people have been indicted for serious crimes. there is a famous "seinfeld" episode where george wants to put his life in one day.
if you look at my life as a george costanza day it's impressive. if you look at it as one day 35 people were indicted, multiple people going to jail. many of the people were high up in trump's actual -- >> the big question has been was the top dog, the president of the united states then candidate trump involved in anything. that's the question everyone is asking. >> that's part of the goal post moving donald trump has been successful at. it is donald trump that's set the bar at no collusion. the scope of the mueller investigation was to figure out how russians were influencing our elections. i think they likely have and we'll likely now know how they have influenced the elections. >> why do democrats want the underlying documents of the investigation is because even though mueller had a specific question he was trying to answer and could or couldn't or what have you, there was a lot of stuff that may allow congress to ask even more questions to be on
the path to get to things we need to know about the administration. >> quickly, given that we have talked about the mueller probe over 22 months, are we guilty of hyping it up a little bit too much, either the media or politicians? >> he's putting us on blast now. >> i personally believe we should have transparency with regard to the motivations and the dealings of our president, no matter who the person is. >> the good news is robert mueller completed his investigation. nobody interfered with it. as much as donald trump tried to scuttle that investigation from the beginning, he's done it. now we have to see what the facts are and where do the facts lead us next. >> i have to brush up on my cultural references when you are on the program. >> george costanza, i don't know. >> cartoons. >> that wasn't a cartoon. >> anyway, everybody. thank you to our panelists this
morning. coming up, joy reid will be one on one with financial services chairwoman maxine waters who may have a thought or two on the mueller report. ught or two on te mueller report in 1969, engineers put a man on the moon with technology less powerful than any smartphone. i became an engineer because of them. now i'm at verizon building a powerful 5g experience for america. we call it 5g ultra wideband. when i think of where people might go with it... i think of them. (man over radio) ...go for landing. ♪
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what is in the report, the entire report. not a sanitized copy or version of the report. i believe our leadership will insist that we see the entire report. it will be made available to the american people. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." the two-year wait on russiangate is over. all eyes are on donald trump's attorney general william barr expected to report to congress on mueller's principle findings today. both democrats and republicans have called upon william barr to make the report public with house speaker nancy pelosi leading the charge. speaker pelosi said she'll reject the idea of a highly classified briefing on the mueller findings which she warned could be used to keep mueller's conclusions to the public and she would insist that the mueller report be made public in its entirety. as the rest of the count