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tv   Up With David Gura  MSNBC  March 30, 2019 5:00am-7:00am PDT

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that's a wrap for me on this hour. i'll see you at noon eastern. stay where you are. it's time for "up" with david gura. ♪ hello on a saturday morning. this is "up." waiting on the mueller report, which is attorney general now says will be available in mid-april, if not sooner, with redactions something the president supports. >> i have great confidence in the attorney general. if that's what he would like to do, i have nothing to hide. >> it's been a week since bill barr released his memo. they are complaining the four pages is not adequate especially when it comes to obstruction of justice. >> that was the flimsiest part
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of that. >> six weeks after president trump declared a national emergency on the southern border, a new tack from the president. >> mexico is going to have to do something, otherwise, i'm closing the border. >> it is saturday, march 30th. president trump continues to claim he has been vindicated. >> totally exonerated when the report specifically said it does not exonerate him. yes, the pregnancy test came back negative, it doesn't mean you are a virgin. >> that would be this morning on my left and your right, christine quinn. she was the speaker of the new york city counsel. joe payne a democratic strategist, katie is here, an msnbc legal contributor and tim o'brien of bloomberg opinion and author of "trump nation." let's begin with the latest letter from the attorney
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general, two pages in length, the third one about robert mueller's report. bill barr telling lawmakers the report will be available by the middle of next month. he agrees the public should have the opportunity to read the special report, adding redactions are being made and robert mueller is assisting. the president has legal authority to claim executive privilege over parts of the report, promising, once again, there are no plans to submit the report to the white house for review. jerry nadler is not satisfied with the timetable. he and his colleagues want the report by tuesday without redactions and want to see the underlying evidence. our poll indicates most americans would like to see full transparency when it comes to findings. 75% of respondents think it should be made public. here is adam schiff.
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>> i have to think bob mueller wrote the report knowing, because he could hear it around him, demanding to see it. bill barr applied for the job, talking about how bob mueller's obstruction theory was bogus. what are the odds that bob mueller would say let's let that guy decide? >> i hold up the memo, two pages in length. >> the memo, letter, summary? what are we going to call it? >> the third letter, a page and a half. let me play devil's advocate. he is going to release this thing. there's no longer going to be a debate on if it's coming out or not. there are going to be redactions. the closing paragraph says he will testify, come to capitol hill on may 1st. is this adequate? >> is there timing? that is the question. jerry nadler said i want my
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april 2nd deadline. thank you for the offer to testify, you are going to do it anyway, but maybe sooner than you think. the reality is this is a welcome level of transparency we thought we were not going to get with bill barr. bill barr, kind of like when you are applying to college, when you submitted your essay begging them to take you. big barr did that memorandum before he became the ag, unsolicited. >> when you look at what happened -- >> was he bullied into it? >> that's what i'm asking. >> he could have written this and didn't have to do the sunday summary, which he claims was not really a summary of the mueller report. he didn't have to rush to judgment. what is going to come out doesn't support what the trump narrative is. we know it's a 400-page mueller report excludeing exhibits. jerry nadler is right, there is precedent that allows unredacted
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information to be provided to congress, specifically to be able to assess whether or not there is a foreign adversary that is threatening us here in the united states. you know, for barr to hide behind a lot of legal issues, i mean, he is the ag. what he keeps forgetting is he is the attorney general of the united states, not for donald trump. >> there you go. i was going to bring out 300-400 pages to stack it next to four pages to illustrate how big of a difference this was. this happened quickly. he really boiled this down to something minimal. >> he did. by all accounts, he boiled it down to something minimal. he boiled it down to something that was probably the best presentation for president trump it could be and overlooked very significant parts of the report that we believe are far less flattering to the president. you know, look, i think the attorney general is trying to distract america. he's saying, oh, yes, i'm going
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to release it. he's going to try to make jerry nadler look silly about the 2nd versus the 15th. the issue chairman nadler is saying is the redactions. there is precedent for the way he got it if he wanted to to hand it to jerry nadler and speaker pelosi and congress and say we are going to look at this privately, together at first. it's not what he did or what he is doing. now, the conversation is going to be, he is going to say he is all transparent, but congress and america is going to say, really? you are giving us 300 pages and who knows, 182 of them could be fully redacted and 64 could be half redacted. >> to that point, looking at the letter from bill barr of yesterday, what, clearly, do we have about what he will redact? going into the process, we knew what was on the table. there are things we would assume
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would be redacted. how much latitude does he have to redact what he wants to. >> he is giving himself a lot of latitude. this is the problem of the waybill barr is operating in all of this. he's prejudging operational decisions or legal decisions before the public gets to see the underlying information. >> he did this before he got the job. before he wrote the four pages. >> remember, bob mueller never interviewed the president. obstruction of justice goes to intent. no one is going to know what the president intended if they didn't interview him. bob mueller's report doesn't include an interview with the president. both bill barr and rod rosenstein made a decision on obstruction with a lot of information. i doubt he would come back and
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report that might be obstruction of justice. >> yes. >> then over two weekends we see bill barr doing his legal homework in front of us, publicly. what he should do is sit back and allow this document to get a full airing. if the president thinks he is fully exonerated by this, let it out. bill barr should step back from it. >> fill rutgers did a deep dive and is going to join us later on the show. to the pollices of all of this, i'm going back to the poll. 66% of respondents think mueller should testify before congress. 64% think the attorney general should. barr says he will go to capitol hill come may. who do you want to hear from? as you watch this play out, are you eager to hear from bill barr or mueller? >> do them on the same day. listen -- >> going to be a long day. >> i look at this like a
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campaign, okay? this is a very well orchestrated campaign by the president and by the people around him. bill barr, delay, delay, delay. then you have lindsey graham sitting there threatening people. you have sarah sanders going all over tv talking about how everyone needs to apologize and rudy giuliani doing the same thing. what the president and his team have done is we are going to use delay tactics to create an atmosphere where people think the president is exonerated and democrats are the bad actors here. actually, i have to give the devil their due. they did a very good job in terms of laying this out. i think the ownous is on democrats. it is on the observers, the outside observers to hold the president accountable and not allow them to continue to do that. you have to go after the truth and get at full transparency. transparency means something different to this white house
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than everybody else. >> as far as saying he's going to testify under oath and answer every question -- >> publicly. >> preset questions? what is the orchestration? that's really, again, i think there is potentially an attempt of barr to distract us with a presentation of transparency, which is not the same thing as real transparency. >> they haven't played the executive privilege card yet. the president is allowed to get a look at this. >> we will be back in a moment. president trump tweeted this, so funny "the new york times" and "washington post" got a pulitzer prize for their coverage. they were either duped or corrupt. their prizes should be taken away by the committee. well, the two papers did not win
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for coverage of the collusion. they won it for deeply sourced relentlessly reported coverage in the interest that furthered the nation's understanding of russia interference in the 2016 election and the campaign. the team and eventual administration. at this moment, while we are waiting for that report, as investigations continue in congress and the southern district, i want to take a moment to note how that body of work that won the pulitzer prize shaped us. we learn of conversations with flynn and the russian ambassador. of course michael flynn lost his job and is awaiting sentences. we learned of sessions interactions with kiss yak.
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>> lawmakers continue to look into what was discussed in that meeting. who introduced many of us to george papadopoulos, the trump campaign adviser who got out of prison? "the new york times." they brought to light admissions on kushner's application on the security clearance. that is still a huge focus for investigators and focus on papers to influence the 2016 election. you can read more about the efforts in robert mueller's indictments and safe to assume in his final report as well. we are just getting started on this saturday. coming up, the president throws another cabinet secretary under the bus as he tries to take a victory lap off course. s to tak victory lap off course t even in♪ ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪
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president trump has been trying so hard to celebrate the conclusion of robert mueller's investigation. it did not take long from the president to go from feeling vindicated to vengeful. he caught republicans by surprise. quote, within days the trump administration reversed itself on an affordable care act lawsuit. announcing it now supports a complete court ordered annihilation of the law. for millions of americans dependent on this act, it reasoned trump as a destroyer and democrat of protectors. the gun with which trump keeping shooting himself in the foot has
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an extended clip. it happened during the policy luncheon on tuesday at the u.s. capitol. we know what was on the menu. a monologue about robert mueller's investigation, then the cost of nato's headquarters in brussels, followed by criticism of puerto rico's recovery. a deluxe six-course meal and adam schiff, the chairman of the intelligence committee was the dessert. we learned about what was on our menu from colleagues. this is how the white house described the president's appearance. to address the republican party, helping all americans as the party of health care, had an opportunity to address the defeat of isis in syria and rebuilding the military. we heard a version of what he said behind closed doors on capitol hill. >> the democrats have to now
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decide whether they will continue defrauding the public with ridiculous bull [ bleep ]. >> as we await the special counsel's findings, the report and how they plan to use the attorney general's memo on that report, mueller might be done with his investigation, but trump and company are loathe to let it drop in their view. william barr's four-page summary vindicates him. everyone is back with me along with hans nichols at the white house. the president went to grand rapids for that event. how is he interpreting what is in that first memo? we talked about all three. the first one, the four-page summary of the investigation and how is he using this on the campaign trail? >> in regards to whether or not barr will release most of the
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underlying mueller report. we have seen two views from the president in the last 14-16 hours. initially, he was for the full release, keeping with his line that he trusts william barr and it's up to william barr. he seemed to backtrack and suggest, look, democrats are going to attack him, no matter what. this is the president on twitter. maybe we should not release it at all. here is the issue, barr committed publicly to releasing it. he's given somewhat of a date of when to do it. he said the white house isn't going to get a pre-advanced viewing of the report, the part that is redaucted. for the president, going forward, a real challenge and question. will he try to stop the attorney general from releasing it or use it as a rhetorical device to say democrats will never be happy. it will raise conflict between him and the attorney general. david? >> let me turn to you here.
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the cloud lifted over the white house. light is getting in and we see the policy priorities of this president. no we don't. we see confusion of what is going to happen here. >> going back to charles quo indicati ation of how the president is shooting himself in the foot. what do you make of how he dealt with the report from bill barr. >> like he does with everything else. he is sloppy. there's no strategy. tim has done extensive reporting on this. he speaks the language of corruption. he speaks the language of dishonesty. he thinks everyone around him is dishonest and corrupt. everyone around him, it's interesting, at the end of the day, there were no new people who were named, but if you go throughout, if you took all the 34 people rounded up by mueller and took all the charges that were rounded up and did it on the final day of the report, we would have a different perspective on what happened.
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it's interesting how the timing worked in the president's favor. i think it's interesting to this. you know, we talk about how much has been spent on this. i have heard republicans belly aching about how much was spent on this. half the amount of going after hillary clinton, between benghazi and white water. >> they made money on it. >> manafort in his $32,000 lizard jacket. his ostrich coat. >> he gets to keep a lot of it. >> he gets to keep a lot of it. his net worth is still around $4 million. we made money. the american government made money on the investigation, which is wild. to the point from the last segment, before we went to commercial, the problem about the timing of this for republicans, specifically the trump administration is that the blowing up in their face when the actual underlying evidence comes out is going to be profound. you can try to do this victory tour for as long as you want.
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when the real evidence, as a lawyer, i have always said this, especially on this show, i want facts and evidence. i don't need spin. if i'm going to get that, it will blow up in their face. there were people indicted for their roles working with, lying to, i mean, it's stuff that are crimes. if there were people indicted, it means there wasn't anything wrong? obviously something was wrong. people were indicted. rick gates hasn't been sentenced yet. >> it ain't over till it's over. in the southern district of new york, the new york attorney general, they have ongoing investigations. by all accounts rksz the southern district is honing in on criminal activity. so, in addition to what you said, at some point, they are going to get this other info and they are going to be victory dancing backward. >> we got insight in what they could do in this massive lawsuit against the family with regard
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to opioids this week. donald trump has his own dictionary and reconciliation ain't a word in it. >> or, i'm sorry. >> or, i'm sorry. this was an opportunity an he's had them to say, all right, i want to put this behind me. let me make an effort to do that by bringing the country together. what we saw on twitter, in the luncheon, what we saw in grand rapids was the opposite of that. >> sometimes, ultimately, it works against him. everyone in the republican party had to feel like he dropped a bomb on good talking points he could have had like the media is overzealous and the coverage of russia-gate. instead, he puts health care on the table. >> yep, yep. >> that's what voters care about in 2020. people are going to care if their health care is taken away because of pre-existing conditions. they are going to care if
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medicaid is cut. >> hans nichols, to that point, you have the republican leader of the senate saying he is going to sit back and wait for the president's proposal. correct me if i'm wrong, there is no proposal. >> not a formal one, but i haven't checked twitter in the last five, ten minutes. because there's not a proposal doesn't mean something is not filtering around in the president's mind and he can work on it in the house and senate. reconciliation, is not hiss high point. attack is. we see a shift near a new foil. that could be mexico. look at the president's rhetoric on mexico. it escalated dramatically yesterday. not only saying he is going to close the border, but putting a time line on it. that is significant as we get out of the mueller phase, the president is on attack of mexico. >> we are going to get into the push and pull of those factors
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here. much more ahead, including the border wall triage. president trump's latest as he mentioned. the reporting on the authority the homeland security secretary is demanding from congress to deal with migrant kids. kids many have style... few have pure grace. many have strength... few have raw power and many possess beauty but only a few can touch our souls. there are many suvs, but there's only one legend. the 2019 jeep grand cherokee the most awarded suv ever.
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now they are going to stop them. if they don't stop them, we are closing the border. we will close it and keep it closed for a long time. i'm not playing games. >> not playing games. this is "up." the president planning to shut down the southern border of the u.s. next week unless they halt illegal immigration. they say the immigration system is at a breaking point, as border apprehension skyrockets. the department of homeland security is asking for help. kristjen neilson hoping to deport -- >> my colleague here at msnbc news covers national security and justice. let's start with the letter you reported on, making the two requests, more funding and the expanded powers.
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what does the homeland security secretary want to be able to do? >> she wants new legislation. she wants congress to pass laws to allow her to deport children without sending them to health and human services. right now, if a child crosses a border, unaccompanied, they are sent to health and human services. we have seen those pictures before, the tent cities, the places that filled up in the summer and fall. from there, they would go to a sponsor or relative. she says that is a draw for the children to make a dangerous journey. she wants to deport them more quickly. we spoke to a senior yesterday and pressed this official on the issue and said, what exactly would happen to the children. how quickly would you deport them and what would you do? we didn't get straight answers. it's not clear how they are going to do it. are they deported as soon as
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they fail an asylum interview. asylum seekers, yes, but more importantly children. she has to overcome court orders, existing law and international law. it may be dead on arrival, but tells us a lot about the way the administration views the solution to the problem on the border as more and more families and children are coming and claiming asylum. >> we are going to dig into that and this other story, close the u.s.-mexico border. set up the conversation we are going to have here around the table in new york. can the president do this? can he do it that quickly? >> let's set up what is going on at the border. yes, we are seeing border crossing numbers over 40,000. jay johnson said yesterday, any number over 1,000 a day on his watch did worry him. the majority of these are families seeking asylum, children seeking asylum.
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they are being caught rksz a lot of them, as they wait to make the claims. we have seen photos of hundreds of migrants under an overpass trying to come in and claim asylum. we are seeing this influx. yes, under u.s. law, it takes longer to process them because they have rights. the president wants a solution, seal the border. what we understand from dhs is they want to reserve the right to shut down certain parts of the border for certain periods of time. we saw them do this around the honduran process. it was one of the busiest border crossings in the world for traffic. what it does is harms commerce. there is so much legal immigration and commerce that goes back and forth between the u.s. and mexico every day. the president's plan to seal the border doesn't seem practical and the president's plan or threat to do this if mexico doesn't stop it seems
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farfetched. people on the ground say they may be able to shut down lanes as they process more people but shutting down the whole border isn't practical. >> thank you very much. have a great weekend. christine, let me turn to you on what the president is threatening to do here. expert after expert after expert i talk to says focus on the push factors, what is leading people to come to this country. you have a president blindly ignorant. what is he trying to say? >> you know, the president, on many issues, probably none more than immigration has no interest in being connected to the facts, has only interest in rhetoric, throwing red meat out there to the cheap seats, which he believes is going to keep his
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base intact. but, beyond that, there's a cruelty, inhumanity and disdain for children that permeates his policy and all of his policies that goes beyond just even his typical bullying. it's disgusting, quite frankly. you know, part of the reason there's so many people rushing in now is because he does things like threatening to close the border and people are living in such violence and fear that they will then rush to get to the border. let's make no mistake, he's focusing, again, on the mexico border and cracking down on illegal immigrations and sometimes we say he is doing that for drugs. they are not the point of entry. now, we are going to close it down unless mexico fixes it? mexico was going to pay for the wall. how is it going with him and mexico? not so great.
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>> the inability to see humanity. he is easily able to see the economics of stories like this one. you look at what's happened with the u.s.-mexico-canada trade deal, the new nafta. it's fallen apart. that may be what spurred the president to make the threat. >> i'm sure he feels canada and mexico played him in the agreement. the problem with any policy, he is impatient. he doesn't read. he doesn't focus on the details. he is ignorant of sophisticated policymaking. what comes to haunt him, ultimately, these things turn around at the last minute because he hasn't been paying attention, whether it's defunding the special olympics or the migration crisis at the border. it hits him in the side of the head, then he reacts emotionally. so much of the piece in grand rapids were memorable, but he said something to the effect of oh, boohoo with migration.
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he said boohoo, all these families are struggling at the border. oh, they can't help themselves. at the end, he said, it's such a con job. i think the cynicism in that, we can have disagreements about the best policy, but we need to address people's problems, migrating into the united states. when we see photos of people put in cages with no place to go and a president opening disparaging their motivations for the most cynical of reasons, from a bipartisan standpoint. >> you mentioned special olympics. after brutal condemnation, they say they will not cut funding for the special olympics, hours after the president's secretary of education defended the cuts. oh, to be a member of this cabinet. i'm glad you're education secretary, are you? >> i am, indeed. >> good. good. >> most days, i am. good. good >> most days, i am biopharmaceutical researchers.
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the special olympics will be funded, i just told my people, i want to fund the special olympics. i have overridden my people with funding the special olympics. >> funding the special olympics to the tune of $18 million was not the administrations position. hours before president trump said he had overridden his people, as he did, one of them, the secretary of education was taken to task by lawmakers for
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eliminating the funding for special olympics. the founder responded this way. >> i just want to thank all of you who advocated, lobbied, republicans, democrats, old and young. >> i want to thank the president for responding to your voices. that's how democracy is supposed to work and it worked. >> i am pleased and grateful the president and i see eye-to-eye on this issue and he decided to fund our special olympics grant. this is funding i have fought for behind the scenes over the last several years. >> news to me joel payne. that is not what she was saying. she said cuts have to be hard sometimes. >> this whole thing is a joke. i worked for barbara lee, proud to have worked for barbara lee. what she told me around the time the budget is coming out is a budget is a moral document, it
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says who you are, what you believe in. this white house, this president, does not believe in looking at people who can't look after themselves. it's not their value, they don't care about it. you have seen it time and time again. we were talking about the border. he idolizes jackson. this thing with the special olympics, picking on people who actually can't fight for themselves. it was no accident. i don't think this was a staff error. we were talking about that during the break. it is a deliberate attempt by people like nick mulvaney, people who are empowered to go amok. there is no control in the building. >> the timing is important, too. if you didn't get the barr summary, you would not have gotten the kristjen neilson letter. he felt emboldened to do these things. >> on the issue of parliamentary procedure, you have the president talking about his
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people making this call. you know, in the background of all the conversations, talking what's on the hill is the ignorance about the way appropriations works, the white house, the executive branch is supposed to work. you see that once again. yes, it's a moral document. the president thinks you can flip a switch and make it better. >> i told my people to change the budget, it's your budget. >> yes. >> i mean, i know it's different in washington, of course, but when the mayor of new york releases a budget, he or she presents it as their document. so, you know, i know it's not a lot of money in the scheme of the budget, but it's a huge amount of money the special olympics and just the message. how did he not know, how did he not know? it's as if he doesn't -- >> he doesn't care enough. >> the last two points, one, it's not a huge amount of money.
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that's a message you are sending. you lose that money in a half a day in processing in the government. $18 million is nothing. that's a message you are sending about what your values are. as someone who worked on the hill, nobody cares what is in the president's budget. what is coming out of the key committees, the house and senate side. pelosi was never going to sign a bill to cut special olympics. she will probably double it. >> the president seems to revel in causing anxiety for people in need, whether it's special olympics, participants, families, people who need the affordable care act to stay alive, literally. it's like he leans back in a chair and twists, you know, a handlebar moustache and says, oh, the little people are scurrying about, afraid. it's sick. >> tim, i want to ask you about the larger issue at play. this is a thin cabinet at this
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point for all the emphasis the administration played. for how big it was, et cetera. it is thin. it's vis rated at this point. you have insight in how this president staffs, how he regards staff. he has to play the clip of devos she likes the job most days. how he can do an about face that quickly. >> they want to get their resumes stamped or they think by attaching their wagon to his star, they are further down the road. the fact of the matter is they need to look at his history. he is a solo pilot. the trump organization is not a fortune 500. it's a mom and pop organization. the only companies he ran of size was a casino, he ran it into the ground. he ran a marketing and licensing operation that turned him into a human shingle.
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when it's come to having to build teams, attract top tier people, empower the people around him, the things good managers do, he's never done that in business and certainly not in the house. >> he has thoughts of being a pilot. your point on the budget being a moral document, the white house had time to make the moral stand later than it was supposed to or said it would. up next, tip after tip from president trump's former fixer, michael cohen, including a big one of how donald trump exaggerated his wealth. [zara larsson - "wow"] ♪ ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪
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buy the latest iphone for you, and get iphone 10r on us for someone else. and get apple music on us, too. only on verizon. i'm smarter than them. i went to the best schools they didn't. much more beautiful house, much more beautiful apartment, much more beautiful everything. >> president trump in grand rapids, michigan, posting as he so often does about his wealth. but thanks to new reporting, we are learning about how the president inflated his net worth in statements to lenders and investors. among the president's tricks, adding 10 stories to the height of trump tower. he said his virginia winery was 800 acres larger than it actually is and he claimed to have 24 ready to sell lots that were -- well, they weren't ready to sell. the chairman of the house oversight committee elijah
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cummings and pushing for a decade's worth of president trump's financial records. the tim o'brien is to my right. tim, at the center of this piece are these statements of financial condition. as the son of a cpi, fair to assume these are not above board, the way that the president was articulating how much money, what his assets were? >> right. we could almost call them comic books. one, at one point, when i was working on the book, i walked over to his office from the "new york times" and met with his accountant who has recently abobeen in the cross hairs of investigators. so we sat down in a conference room and allen has a yellow legal pad out. and he's just going through it on a line by line basis how much all of the trump assets are worth. and they're telling me it's going the add up to $6 billion. we get done with this exercise
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and it only adds up to 5 billion. and i say, allen, there's $1 billion missing here. and he looks and he says, i'm going to go back to my office and find that other billion. that's the way these guys roll. >> i love it. >> if they can just open a drawer, find a billion here, a billion there. the traction he got out of this was twofold. one, it kept him out of the media. donald trump was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. but he knows deal down inside that he doesn't have the kind of money he claims to. it's been a good promotional device for him. in a prablthctical way, too, it allowed him to walk into bavrng banks and get loans on the presumption that he was a billionaire. he ended up being allienated from those banks. now that we're back into this, i
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think what congress is going to look at is was any of this fraudulent? did he make claims to business partners that involved in inflating his assets. >> there is something pathetic about these inflations. on this issue of fraud, we see investigators now following this trail of bread crumbs given by michael cohen to congressional investigators, but a number of these committees are now interested in these reports as much as they are. it's disturbing. if you're donald trump, you've spent a life of grist that is coming back for which you are going on be held accountable. >> perhaps leading to what we're hearing in these stump speeches. but the irony is that donald trump made such hey over the fact that people were prosecuted during the mueller investigation
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for process crimes, for lying to the fbi, for not telling the truth and it never went to the guts of the mueller investigate e investigation, allegedly. yet what is donald trump now facing? extensive hyper technical scrutiny for lying on an application, for lying on your financial conditions, a process crime. what we've seen in this administration, when push comes to shove, he's going punt responsibility to people like his accountants. he's going to say, i didn't have anything to do with it. these are things that were happening that had nothing to do with me. this is serious quick sand for donald trump. there are filings done under oath upon which he represents that he has collateral giving him billions if not millions of dollars and if he's caught to have lied, it's like insurance fraud that is facing something for him now, too.
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harry truman said the buck stops here. this president passes the buck. this is a broader theme of what we're seeing in this presidency. >> this is who this individual is. he speaks the language of grift, of corruption, this is how he's lived his entire life. we've seen it in our anecdotal experiences with him, with people around him. this is what he values. and i think, actually, american excess is really kind of at the foundational level of who donald trump is. excess in story telling, excess in lifestyle and excess in the b.s. that he pushes. >> thank you all for coming in on this saturday. christine, katie, tim o'brien. make sure you're back here tomorrow. we're going to have some brand new data, the latest nbc news
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"wall street journal" poll comes out during "up" tomorrow. a lot of insight as we wait for robert mueller's report starting at 8:00 tomorrow eastern time. coming up, the attorney general says his goal is to get a redacted version of the special counsel's out to the public by mid april. congressional committee chairman say that is not fast enough. plus, the interview that never happened. why, with when the washington bureau chief joins us next. wit bureau chief joins us next
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good morning, everybody. this is "up." according to the attorney general bill barr, we have two more weeks until the attorney general releases robert mueller's final report. in a new memo to lawmakers, he says he needs time to make redactions and he promises the white house is not going to get a sneak peek. at this point, we've only seen 73 words from robert mueller's report which we've learned is some 400 pages long. what we have seen has been hand picked by the attorney general. this morning, democrats are standing firm. two weeks is too long, they say. they want robert mueller's findings by tuesday of this week unredacted. >> i have to think that bob mueller wrote his report knowing because he could hear it all around him that the public was
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going to demand to see it. >> we don't need you interpreting for us. it was condescending, it was arrogant and it wasn't the right thing to do. >> congress in a ma'am adam schif twetieting this, barr shod seek approval. >> the russia hoax is finally dead. no collusion and no obstruction. we're very tough to take out, aren't we? >> he's currently a contributor to nbc think, mara gay is an msnbc contributor and a member of the "new york times" editorial board and clint watts,
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son of st. louis, i have prepared a doughnut just for you. >> just for me. >> so, if you would, a loaf of bread. >> look at that slicing. >> let me start with you with regard to this latest memo from the attorney general indicating there are going to be some redactions. how much does this engender anyone that what is significant here or most of this report by bob mueller, 400 pages in length is going to see the light of day? >> you you it comes down to what other things are under way that will limit the investigation to. and the other part is where is the line drawn on grand jury information that has been brought in. is he going to low all of it to come out? i think that tells a lot about bar's intentions. f only re-democrats those things that are negative to the president, you'll know attorney general barr is slanting this
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towards the white house or if he leaves it very even hand, he's -- maybe he redacts as much as possible which gives you a report where you don't have any information. the minimization of this 400-page report, in that sense, you can't be surprised by what we've seen from the president this week. >> not at all. it's very predictable that he's going to take a victory lap. ting reality here is this is probably just a pause in the momentum of these investigations. this is not over. this is far from over. i think that essentially the southern district of new york poses the greatest threat to the president, to the white house, always has. that has not changed. let's see what happens is in the
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report. you i think the longer barr waits to put this out, the more air is taken out of the report itself. and i think that's a real risk. but at the end of the day, the obstruction of justice question is not settled. and it doesn't matter, you know, how many rallies he declares victory at. it's not settled, it's not over, and he is on the offensive because that's what he knows how to do. but it's not done. >> kurt, on this issue of there being a pause, it's something the way the president has filled this pause with profanity, with bombast, with a real left field policy decision here to pursue health care. >> so just another day in the presidency. it's par for the course at this point. the one thing that they've done really well is try to fill that void. we have, like you said, less than 80 words. >> they've done it well. >> out of context words, by the way. so they've been able to fill
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that themselves. the longer that this goes, the more cemented the narrative that they put out in the beginning takes place, takes hold, takes shape. that's why congress isn't going to allow them another two weeks. that's why they're going to subpoena this report. there's no reason why they shouldn't have an unredacted copy. it's funny watching the ag try to walk back the words it wasn't a summary. it was an initial observation. really? that is not what every single person that works for the white house has been calling it. they've been calling it the mueller report. so congress is not going to allow this to go much longer. >> kurt using the word subpoena. my colleagues here plotting their strategy going forward. what kind of teeth does a subpoena have? what kind of tool is that the democrats would have at their disposal? >> for me, this issue is about the oversight responsibilities of the congress. let's get back to what the
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constitution says they ought to do. the founders were very wise in that they set up and gave, really, the final say-so. yes, the supreme court and the judiciary has a role, but the congress has a critical role here over the executive. so i think that they need to do a couple of things. one, i would haul mueller in. i don't know why we're talking about barr. bring mueller in and have mueller in to tell me what's in the report. unless there is something that i'm not aware of in a statute that doesn't allow that, that to me is the most direct way. give us a summary about what is in here. maybe he can't talk about a lot of things that have to be redacted. but get them both up on the hill. that's number one. number two, i think donald trump has had a really good last week or so. and i actually think he's probably going to get himself re-elected. as unhappy as that makes me as an american, i think the democrats have their hands full now on how they deal with this. like you said, it's not over, but they have to walk a very
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fine line to mara's point, how do the democrats bounce that back to the subpoena power to answer the question? you can take fifth if you want to. you can plead the fifth or answer questions in a deposition. we did that all the time to bill clinton. >> i think a lot of people are now wondering what he was thinking, and what i'm most interested in is how does he fill this space where he doesn't get the say-so. over the course of the investigation, he was able to speak through these indictments he has given out there. he has given this report to the attorney general. the attorney general is looking through it, making his redactions. but bob mule ner a way is powerless from this point. from what you know of him, how
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does he do that? how does he look at the conversation happening around this report that we haven't seen, the conversations around these three memoranda now that have been written by bill barr, the attorney general, and sit passively by? >> i think from the day he took the job, he will be at a hearing several years later. that is the natural process of this. i would also know, whether it's director mueller, special counsel mueller, he's going to go by the rules. my assessment is he could not find any willing or knowingly maybe coordination with the russians, right? the good you news is president trump is not the manchurian candidate, but every bad part of the campaign was hit with an influence operation, either in person or online. many people fell for it, whether they realized it or not, and you
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saw political parties that are also being set up with this influence operation, all very bad. on the obstruction issue, it really comes down to why didn't he make a recommendation was he allowed to go through the process or did he simply say i cannot charge a sitting president? so the process for this is to impeach or not to impeach. i will offer the evidence to congress and they will make a decision. i think that's the key thing i will look for in the hearing is why did you make the decision not to offer any sort of a recommendation about either prosecution or pushing it to impeachment? >> the question he's going to get in that hearing, if president trudonald trump was not president of the united states, would you have charged him with obstruction. >> given that there were influences on the campaign, whether whitingly or unwittingly, why -- the behavior
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of the trump campaign is what is troubling to people. why wasn't it reported? why hasn't the president taken the fact he has in russia and helsinki when they met. it's like he doesn't want to believe his own intelligence agencies. >> he doesn't. >> the behavior doesn't add up. >> and that is where the democrats are saying, just because you say there is no knowing collusion, if you will -- and thank goodness there's not. >> so that becomes, i think, the issue of how they come at this. why did you do certain things? why didn't you report this? the conduct is strange, at best. >> this comes down to why is it their natural instinct in every scenario is to immediately lie and try and obfuscate an investigation which should be alarming for a thousand reasons. it's not just russia, it's consistent among everything in this investigation. >> i want to ask you about one of the broader parts of bob mueller's mandate and that was
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to look at the mandate of this election. as you look at the president on the stump, he is paying no lip service to that. but that is a huge part of this. how we move on from what happens in 2016, mentioning the useful idiot, this could easily happen again. >> i think in dismissing the russian interference in the election, even this week while taking his victory lap, donald trump is showing, yet again, that he is a useful idiot for the russians and, in fact, that he is yet again putting himself before the interest of the united states. and so the question is why? i don't know. he's a narcissist, he's, you know, self-involved, sure. i'm not a psychiatrist. i don't know what his real problem is in his head. that is disturbing to me. taking a victory lap while dismissing the fact that russians managed this influence campaign, what does that tell us
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about the president of the united states and what is important to him? and that's the thing. there is a criminal component to -- you know, there are questions about whether there was criminality. that's one issue. but just because something isn't criminal doesn't mean it's probably. and i think that is what congress is going to have to take on next. >> clint, i want to ask you about this. when you talk about the nra and you talk about the prayer breakfast, there is a level of soft influence here that goes ignored if you think that's all that was wrong with the 2016 election. >> and it's not limited to russia. there are lots of countries that have been doing this soft influence. with all of these candidates going into 2020 on the democratic side, what is the process by which the fbi goes just want to let you know that person who showed up to the
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door, they may have al tieron motives which is to compromise you down the road. have we done that? i bet now. the woman from orchids of asia, isn't it interesting that she shoud you? did you know that person might be selling wrongful information? up next, president trump said he was open to it again and again, but in the end, he never sat down with an interview with the special counsel. our next guest knows why. l coun. our next guest knows why ♪ limu emu & doug
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this is "up." the attorney general bill barr says the special counselor's report, some 400 pages in length will be sent to dilawmakers by d april. that is not enough according to lawmakers. lawmakers are scheduled to be on recess from april 13th to april 8th 589 of questions remain about the special counsel's investigation. the decision not to subpoena the president is one of the lingering mysteries of mueller's 22-month investigation which concluded last week. phillip rutger continues, the president now believes keeping their client from sitting down with investigators was their
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greatest victory. rocketer mueller was pushing for an interview with the president but the legal team were concerned the president was perger himself. i'm going to quote from bill barr's memo of on instruction of justice. the special counsel states that while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. can't say that enough. an interview with the president would have been pivotal to assessing whether or not the president had intent. phil, this is a great piece. help us understand why this didn't happen. why did they give up, as it seems they did?
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>> hopefully in the full mueller report we might see later this month, we'll get some answers to those questions. the internal debates inside the department of justice are being tightly held now and we're not sure. but there are a couple of factors at play. one is that the special counsel mueller was not operating with full independence. he was a subordinate to the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein. rosenstein, throughout this process, faced incredible political pressure both from republicans and democrats in the white house. if mueller were so far subpoenaed the president, it would likery have involved a court challenge. so mueller would have needed to
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have a real justification for doing this interview that he could not have obtained elsewhere through other documents or other witnesses. so the trump lawyers tried to drown the special counsel with information. they submitted so many different witnesses from the white house and elsewhere to shed light on the president's intent so that mueller would not need to sit down and talk to the president. >> on this issue of precedent, yes, there wouldn't have been press didn't here, but they had the opportunity to take the fight up to the supreme court and determine what could and could not have been done. for those who assume that on the issue of obstruction of just you needed to hear from the president himself, they were surprised it does not happen. >> this has been my big disagreement, there is no precedent for this so let's stop
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pointing back rearward and say, oh, well, in this year, we didn't pursue this. we have never had a candidate that has been investigated for something leading into the election and relates to whether or not they won the election. so i think the interview needed to happen. it doesn't matter if it's a rally, an interview, he says the opposite of what he said in the last time you asked him a question. so i'm not sure that president trump would even be able to tell you what he thought at any given moment because he can't preb or he speaks in the object sis direction. >> the president welcomed this or he said to at least he seemed content to have this opportunity to sit down with the man investigationing the campaign. >> his lawyers were brilliant. they earned their pay. bill clinton ended up getting in trouble when he perjured
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himself. i would have never let my client do it and his lawyers were good and they earned their pay. it was a smart strategy on their part. >> this is different from ken starr's investigation. phil is talking about how closed hips people in the just department are right now. what is the lesson learned from the way this was conducted, who oversaw it, do you see this evolving in the way this democracy approaches investigations like this? >> i hope that people are starting to think about that. the truth is we're still in the midst of it. it's still unfolding. we don't central are the perspective we need yet. my concern over the past week has been the way this has played out, which has been if not politicized in actuality certainly given the appearance
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of being politicized. i think that is important because we focus a lot about what trump's pace thinks and what they're doing, but the reality is they're not a majority of the country. and from the majority of the country, this looks like a special couch that was under the guidance of a police appointee by the person being investigated who happened to be the president of the united states who has in some way hidden part of a report from the public that get to the heart of the state of our democracy and whether or not we're going to bring people to just or they're above the law because they sit in the white house. so the idea that this process hasn't been protected in the way that it needs to be on a behalf of american people, that should be a concern to not just democrats, but also trump supporters.
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if half the country doesn't have faith in the process, we're all going to have a progress. >> we're seeing this relationship, president trump was out golfing with the chairman of the senate judiciary committee. as you talk to your sources and you listen to what is happening in washington, d.c., how much concern is there about that, the way that these committees have been brought into this conversation? >> frankly, i think that's one of the reasons why bill barr was clear in his letter yesterday to state that the white house was not going to be reviewing this full report in advance of congress. certainly the president would have a right to demand that, to be reviewing it for executive privilege. but the white house officials that i've been talking to for the last week or two have been adamant about making sure that there's not communication between them and the attorney general's office as it pertains
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to the report in these recent days simply because they don't want the political optics there. they don't want to create further cause for concern. there is enough concern on capitol hill with how barr has handled this in terms of the findings and waiting to put out the full report. >> phil, thank you very much, as always. appreciate the time. up ahead, how congresswoman alexandra cortez is trying to bring new life to a deal as president trump supporters are invoking her name at rallies. >> every mainstream leading democratic contender is taking the advice of a freshman congresswoman who three weeks ago didn't know the three branches of government. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't.
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the entire united states government knew that climate change was real and human cost in 1989, the year i was born. so the initial response was let the market handle it, they will do it. 40 years and free market solutions have not changed our position. >> the congresswoman from queens and the bronx last night on "all in" with chris hayes speak background her need for a new green deal making us all feel
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old around the table, as well. arguing the merits of the legislation after it failed a test vote in the senate this week and faces increased resistance from the members of the gop. >> this is not an elitist issue. this is a quality of life issue. you want to tell people that their concern and their desire for clean air and clean water is elitist? >> in an effort to combat the resistance on the right, a group, including chuck schumer, has a committee. it is comprised entirely of democrats. when this was initially proposed, it was seen by many as a road map. maybe this wouldn't get past, but it laid out on paper a plan, at least in broad strokes, with how to deal with this issue. now that that vote has happened, where do we go from here? it's not as though there's available legislation on capitol hill to deal with this.
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>> we know both sides will continue to talk about this. trump has said he wants to run on opposing the green new deal and it should be. all specific details and high sperply aside, this is the agreest crisis that we are going to ever face. it's the health of our planet. our planet has cancer or all other issues aren't going to a matter. it won't matter if you don't have clean air our clean water. we're seeing these efforts come through every year and cost billions and billions of dollarses. the only way to get to a point where there's going to be a political solution is to make this the issue we talk about. it's the first time in any political cycle where climate change is a priority.
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>> when you look at congress and how they approach this issue, how big a part of this is generational? >> i think there's a generational issue, but i think there's a generational issue with 2020 in general and that is going to play out in interesting ways. but i think in terms of climate change, something that the congresswoman did was she brought it back to the kitchen table. she said this is not an issue for elites. this is causing harm to farms in iowa that are getting flooded, this is causing harm to kids in the blonk that have asthma. that could be a win issue similar to health care. i think it's a start and, as you said, the details can get worked out, but this is a smart issue.
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>> what the congresswoman is so good at is being a catalyst for these kinds of conversations and i look at what governor rickenlooper did before that voed, he announced his opposition to it. but in doing that, i think he was forced to look at how he might deal with it, but he's talking about it. is that your biggest take away that this has become an issue that we have to talk about and that we are talking about? >> i'm a lifelong moderate republican. she's stirring the pot and making us think about things we don't want to think about. gen xors, thinking about the planet for you is not your biggest concern. but if you're a young person and you're thinking about starting your family and your life and
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you have vp more information now about this issue than we did 30 years ago, it's front and center for them. and i think e tend of the day, what she's doing for the democrat party is she's standing them on their heels and saying i'm challenging you to live up to who you are. coming up, president trump surprises many republicans declaring the gop will become the party of health care. a senior republican aide says the president's promise is akin to punching yourself in the face repeatedly. >> i understand health care now, especially, very well. a lot of people don't understand it. people don't understand it ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪
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we have a chance of killing obamacare. we almost did it, but somebody unfortunately surprised us with thumbs down. the republican party will become the party of great health care. >> a surprise to members of his own party, president trump this week turned his focus back to health care and putting republicans in congress on the hook to repeal obamacare. never mind the lack of details of the 70 failed attempts to repeal the law. mitch mcconnell is taking a back seat on this one telling politico he is waiting to see what the president proposes.
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the president's comments come after the administration asked a court to uphold. this was the scene where protesters had to be forcibly remove. you may remember what happened at town halls across the country. >> my children both have pre-existing conditions from birth. one cardiac, one thyroid. you have been the single greatest threat to my family in the entire world. >> so what you see there is the seriousness of this issue, something you know well. >> i do. >> how surprised were you by the president saying this and why has this been such a deficit and
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yesterday there has been nothing to fill that vacuum? >> i wasn't surprised. this is one area where i hope partisanship can familiar by the way said and they can sit down and talk about how they're going to fix health care. as someone who had a traumatic head injury and the medical bills. it pretty much w50i7d me out financially and in the worst of ways you can think about. and to have to come back from that and to see how much money we all pay in health care costs and then your debles. health care is out of control. it's a third of cost easily. that's for someone like me. i can't imagine what it's like for someone with a family of four and with kids.
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they ran on this that they were going to repeal obamacare, that they were going to cob up with a best system. blaming it on john mccain is not the way to do this. >> the element of surprise is that, like, this has been talked about for so long and so little as emerged as a result of those skag conversations. >> if mitch mcconnell and others are waiting for the white house to provide the blueprint, they're going to be waiting for a long time. when the senate majority leader's position is we'll wait and see what happens, that is not going to happen. >> i hear there's a group that is trying. >> if mcconnell doesn't move on it, it doesn't matter. >> he needs to go.
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>> mish tch mcconnell gets to decide what's going to take place. the reality is republicans still control two-thirds of two-thirds of this government. >> this did catch a lot of republicans by surprise on tuesday during that lunch i don't know. you heard the president say the party is the party of health care you &. he's baiting the party, isn't he? >> yeah. it's just dumb. the russia investigation was a concern of some americans. health care is a concern of all americans. everyone is going to take a stance on this. i have obamacare. it was the only insurance offered to me. i was a child with pre-existing conditions. they are going to take my insurance away and offer me nothing. this is just dumb. at best what they're going to do is repeal baeshgobamacare, put obamacare again and say this is
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trump care and it's the best we have. this is not a solution and it shows. this will be the single issue that probably drives 2020 for the democrats if they're going to retake the presidency. i don't understand. >> i always go back to mitch mcconnell here. we've seen this before where he sits at the back, leaves the room, leaves the conversation. what does that say about the intract blth intractability of this party? you have that party of the legislation branch seemingly unable to do anything about it other than throw up his hands and say we're going to wait this one out. >> the problem is in order for democracy to function, you need at least two political parties that are serious and willing to do the people's work. and the reality is this was never about getting good health care for the american people. this was about vilifying and undoing the presidency of barack obama. >> the senator from arizona. >> that's right. and it was never about that. the american people do need both
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parties to come to the table and be serious, but this issue, this should not be a partisan issue. but there is no one sitting at the other side of the table. the republicans, so far, they have offered nothing to the american people except promising to undo what the black president did. >> coming up here, how the 2020 campaign will be about policy and not personality. we'll check in on that as beto o'rourke gets ready to kick off his candidacy officially. kick his candidacy officially signed by a record label. a record deal? unbelievable. whenever we're about to get on a stage for a huge audience, i always give my dad, like, a facetime kinda moment. you see the crowd, you see the emotion. you know, he has that experience for the first time with me, and that's really important to me. i created a rockstar. (both laughing) (announcer) the best network is even better when you share it. buy the latest iphone for you, and get iphone 10r on us for someone else. and get apple music on us, too. only on verizon.
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the big drug companies don't see they see us as profits. we're paying the highest prescription drug prices in the world so they can make billions? americans shouldn't have to choose between buying medication and buying food for our families. it's time for someone to look out for us. congress, stop the greed. cut drug prices now.
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welcome back to "up." beto o'rourke launches his campaign with a series of rallies across texas this weekend. check out the latest poll. joe biden leads the pack 29% of democratic voters say they would vote for him if he were to run. bernie sanders is in second, 10 points behind joe biden and near the bottom of that list is elizabeth warren and amy klobuchar. big question remains, what is this campaign going to be about, personality or policy? >> we saw in our last major election that policy really matters to people. >> all these candidates are going to have to show that they
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have concrete plans. >> we want the president to expand health care, to fight climate change. >> what i've got buried inside here, elizabeth warren's plan for leveling the playing field for american farmers, elizabeth warren's plan for housing in the united states, elizabeth warren's plan for breaking up big tech. another one for universal climate change. amy klobuchar, her plan to build america's infrastructure. none of that seems to compare with beto o'rourke on the cover of "vanity fair." the clint, i saw you nodding your head as all of this went on. you've heard the same thing that i have. >> yeah. >> it's policy that's going to differentiate these candidates. what is it about elizabeth warren's policies that aren't sticking or amy klobuchar's or any other candidate? >> people don't read, right?
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that's really what it comes down to. if you look back, the democrats are playing into the exact same scenario that we saw with trump just four years ago. figure out what they want to believe in and they don't know what those concepts are. i was very frustrated. nor mccaskill from missouri, my home state, we need -- she said we need a charismatic leader to get behind. well, there you go. if it's about having a charismatic leader to get behind, you're going to go with hashtags, and memes and short videos and endless series of 90-second social media videos which you're going to get. warren has gone the other route and put down policies and she gets very little attention for it. even if you disagree with them, you should be debating on them. the green new deal is astounding. we're a long way out. maybe this will change but i see
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the same thing planned out on the democrat side, with long distance, a big field we saw with the republicans. >> you have to be cheered by what some of the candidates are doing. >> i saw something else that was interesting about that quinnipiac poll, i'm not somebody who believes that you need to have a black candidate and pair the black candidate with a white candidate. and i'm a man and i don't like to play that game. it is a little bit disturbing to me that the top three candidates early on in the poll were it's okay that they're white men. but i don't find those particular candidates any more compelling than the candidates who like elizabeth warren, aren't you know polling as well early on. what that somethiuggests to me t the democrats might be falling into the same trap as they did last time with hillary clinton is well you know what, this
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person seems responsible. maybe i trust these people. well, why? is it because they're impressive? or is it because it's a white man? >> to that point, is stacey abrams made a good point she and han drew gillum did far better than baito o'rourke, yet none of them are being talked about as a presidential contender or raising that kind of money. to your point, it's exactly right. the fall-back position is donald trump cannot be beaten by anyone other than a white male and i'm inclined maybe to kind of agree with that in this election. because of the way he conducts himself. because of how divided this country is right now. it's going to be hard on a woman or a woman of color to beat him. garrett will be squinting to see if any leibowitz is on stage with the candidate this time
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around. help us understand ways in which the candidate has been pushing back on this argument. when you look at the democratic field, he hasn't advanced as many policy proposals as others have. >> i'm in el paso for the first time. >> forgive me. >> that's all right. we'll be -- >> putting on the miles today. austin tonight. we're logging miles in texas. on the policy question i think there are two points, on the broad strokes here, i think all these democratic candidates agree on a lot of these issues. if you say we want to improve gun control or want to expand health care. the democratic candidates are in large agreement on these things, the specifics become more interesting i think frankly to us who talk about this for a living than to voters i've spoken to on the ground that said on the podium behind me or rather the lack of podium behind me, the stage behind me there will be no written speech. there will be no teleprompter. there will be no new policy specifics expected to be ruled
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out by beto o'rourke today. he talks about the issues in broad strokes, expanding health care access, banning assault weapons, universal background checks. on health care he can point you to the medicare for america bill and talk about it in some specifics. i think the other thing we have to remember is, it is march of 2019. a lot of americans are just now getting introduced to these candidates. you talk about those top three in the polls, i think you could make a compelling argument that the top three people in the quinnipiac poll are also the top three people with just pure name recognition. a lot of americans are just now tuning in to this. i see it even in the early states, i covered o'rourke in the senate race in texas. but even in iowa and new hampshire, people were only vaguely into the idea that this is the guy who ran against ted cruz. so the prospects of an early doom for candidates who are not on that pedestal so far, i think
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are not necessarily something you have to worry about necessarily. if you're amy klobuchar or kamala harris or any of these other folks, it's so early. >> to that point about the gestational stages of this campaign. do you agree with what garrett is saying there? as cliff was mentioning a moment ago, the policy stuff isn't sticking yet. maybe it's just too early. >> it's incredibly early in the process. maybe the earliest we've started this whole carousel. this is where the town halls and debates are going to be important who can marry the idea of talking substance and policy with communicating it in a compelling way there are going to be opportunities in these debates, because the field is so big, for people to break through and i look at someone who has had the biggest impact in the town halls was mayor pete. was how compelling he was at talking in-depth and substance about policy. but doing so in a way that could appeal to the every man and i think that we're going to find out a lot of weeding out when
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the debates are happening and there are going to be like 20 of them. >> garrett haake in the great state of texas. in el paso, thanks to my panel. sophia nelson, kurt bardlea, mara gay and clint watts. as the president threatens to shut down the u.s./mexico border. joy reid will sit down with former homeland secretary jeh johnson. few have raw power and many possess beauty but only a few can touch our souls. there are many suvs, but there's only one legend. the 2019 jeep grand cherokee the most awarded suv ever. they seem to be the thvery foundation ofcherokee
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that does it for me, i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00 eastern. thank you for watching, "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. this report is all going to come out. and it's just going to reflect more poorly on the attorney general if when it does come out, and we look at the difference between what he redacted and what was under those redactions, it shows an effort to cover up or conceal. either evidence of impropriety or evidence of a lack of morals or ethics or judgment. and that is shy of criminality. or in the case of obstruction of justice, is criminality. >> good morning, and welcome to "a.m. joy." adam schiff issued a warning to the attorney ge

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