tv Up With David Gura MSNBC March 31, 2019 5:00am-7:00am PDT
now it's time for "up" with david guerra. on a sunday, this is "up." we begin with three big stories and the one thread tying them all together. the mueller report, the justice department's move to eliminate obamacare, and the president's threat to close the southern border. what do they have in common? or should i say, who do they have? common? >> bill barr. >> bill barr. >> william barr. >> it was william barr. >> the attorney general has been on the job for 45 days now, and he's at the center of everything. plus, the president at mar-a-lago announces cuts to three key countries. >> i've ended payments to guatemala, to honduras, and to el salvador. no money goes there anywhere. >> that decision has lawmakers scrambling, and former congressman beto o'rourke officially launches his campaign just steps away from the
u.s./mexico border, hitting the president hard on immigration. >> let us free every single dreamer from any fear of deportation. >> it is sunday, march the 31st as we read memo after memo after memo and wait for robert mueller's report. >> there were several questionable incidents involving the president's team, but we cannot prove a criminal connection. >> no collusion, no diggity, no doubt. >> up with me this morning, legal analyst lisa green. mar and fred hochman, former president of the u.s. import/export bank. we start with bill barr, who's at the center of so much happening in washington today.
the report special counsel robert mooueller has written, t democrats are demanding to see by tuesday, and he was part of the contentious discussions that led the administration to push for the complete repeal of the affordable care act, a move that could lead to tens of millions of americans to losing their health care coverage. bill barr has the mueller report in hand. he gets to decide what gets redacted and what the public gets to see. he details that in his latest mome memo to lawmakers. a lot of consternation in another memo about obstruction of justice. in an unsolicited memo he sent when in private practice almost a year ago he wrote, mueller's obstruction theory is fatally misconceived. this week, the former fbi director fired by president trump questioned what the attorney general has done. >> the idea that a special counsel wouldn't reach the question and hand it to the
political leadership doesn't make sense. i'm not prejudging it. i'm just saying it doesn't make sense on its face. >> the attorney general also charged with defending the president's border policies. we know bill barr is a hard liner when it comes to immigration. 2017, barr wrote this column in "the washington post" defending the president's decision to fire deputy attorney general sally yates over her opposition to the travel ban. as an attorney general for george h.w. bush, barr oversaw the decision to hold hiv positive prisoners at ga guantanamo. >> what you've done from a legal standpoint is solidly grounded in law. from the standpoint of protecting american people, it's imperative. >> thank you very much. that's great. you'll defend it well. i have no doubt about that.
>> this week the white house told the fifth circuit court of appeals it wants the entire affordable care act invalidated. the justice department is now actively fighting a law that expanded access to health care for millions. republican senator susan collins of maine took issue with that move this week. >> i'm very disappointed and vehemently opposed to the administration. this is contrary to the tradition of the justice department, which generally defends laws. >> lisa green, i'm going to start with you. let's pick things up with the mueller report, where things stand with that. you've looked at each of these three memoranda from the attorney general. the legal commentator for politico magazine writing, it's astonishing that of that 400-page document, we have yet to a full sentence. what's your sense of where things stand? >> we're getting there. i think the tuesday deadline may
seem to some as in the people who have to actually go through this hundreds of page report and do the redactions that are consistent with norms. taking out grand jury material, taking out anything classified. could take longer. so i take attorney general barr at his word. it might take a bit longer, but he's promised to deliver it. where it gets interesting is when congress decides, and i think it will decide, to challenge some of those redactions and quickly get into a protracted litigation about the public's right to know, about congress' right to investigate, and the attorney general saying there are certain things that shouldn't be put forward. ken starr, the famous bill clinton report, contained grand jury information, went over to congress, made it public. one thing we do know courts hate, litigating a couple matters. political matters, of which this surely is, and discovery matters, which is deciding who gets to see what, when in a court matter. i think buckle your seat belts.
>> on the issue of congress, i mentioned sally yates. she had a piece in "the washington post" this week as well. she said congress has a solemn responsibility to protect our democracy. without access to the full, factual record of what the special counsel uncovered, it cannot fulfill that mandate. there was a lot of concern from chairmen of these committees that the underlying evidence isn't going to be presented, that the attorney general will take way more latitude. >> i don't know if we can say that with 100% certainty. barr stated in the four-page document that he would work with mueller and the deputy a.g. to figure out how much can be released. i would say to those members, just pause the brakes. let's see what he does release. if he doesn't release enough, then you challenge those things through legal means. lisa brought up how some underlying evidence wasn't released in certain cases. i remember the watergate years. what the grand jury did is released a document directly to
the house judiciary committee, but that was never released to the american people. i think this could go both ways. >> maria, on immigration, you have the reporting that nbc news did this week that the secretary of homeland security wants to have more powers to send migrant children back to the country from which they came. you look at what's happening in el paso, beneath that bridge -- >> and mcallen, tijuana. you can name any -- just a month ago i was on the other side of mcallen, seeing the same thing. so what's the message? the message is very clear to us, i think. it is saying we're going to attack anyone and anything that we possibly can. i mean, why all of the sudden this attention on the border
situation? to me it's fascinating that barr's history on this issue is coming out because, again, what are the connections? why is he involved in this particular issue? why was he so interested on the issue of controlling refugees? i want to remind people that when the president says i'm going to cut off all the money to central america, like that's going to help, that's not what we're talking about. there's just no way that you can imagine this president or any of his team going down to the border and crossing on to the mexican side and talking to a father who is crying, weeping because he left honduras, because his 13-year-old daughter was raped, and now he's here with a baby, reported the rape, they lit his house on fire. you say that in one sentence and people are like, oh, that's horrible. but that's what we're talking about. it's not a political strategy of these people to say, let me get to the border and mess up u.s.
policy. that's not what it's about. it's about human lives. that gets missed in all this big political conversation. >> fred, on the issue of strategy, maria is using the word there. we have the president saying he wants to seal up the border. then he wants to cut off aid to the northern triangle. how much strategy is there in all of this? your wheelhouse is economic. the president dissatisfied with the fact his trade agreement has yet to be ratified by this congress. he's probably looking at this relationship more in that way than the humanitarian way. >> i think he excels in shiny objects and distraction. also, the attorney general is not the personal attorney of the president of the united states. >> despite what that clip belied there. >> so he's not the personal attorney. he's not representing the president. he's supposed to represent the american people, rule of law, and transparency. lawyers have a tendency to want to redact as much -- they'd like to redact 100%. if he acts -- if he thinks of himself as the president's attorney, he'll will overly redacting. he'll leave a couple verbs in
and that's about it. that's what we have to guard against. >> just really quickly, i want to remind people, this immigration issue is a big deal for a lot of republican voters. that's why donald trump continues to come back to this. i'm not saying that i necessarily agree with the antics here, but if you remember when donald trump launched his campaign, he did it on immigration. for a lot of the republicans, a lot of his most ardent supporters, when he brings that up, it really brings those people together, which is why i think he continues to hammer hard on this issue. >> so the question -- the response has to be, so what is our responsibility as journalists who actually can go and do the reporting and understand this issue? there is a problem when we are repeating what's coming out of the white house, which is so politically manipulated that then journalists are saying these same things. it becomes very confusing. ultimately, you're right, this did start with donald trump coming down those stairs and taking on people like me, mexican immigrants. and sadly, that is exactly what
his base is connecting to and unable to see the humanity part of it. >> lisa, on this notion of the attorney general's role, let me wrap up with health care, as i promised i would. what's happening in the fifth circuit, you have this attorney general expressing displeasure with this plan hatched by mick mulvaney, the acting chief of staff in the white house. what does that say about his role, the role that the doj, that he's going to play going forward here? eviscerating that law, leaving a void for who knows what. >> this is a radical step. the idea that you can't preserve a portion of a law that congress passed. it's called severability, lawyer alert, but it means you can take away -- let's say the individual mandate doesn't hold up and congress has changed the tax law to make that so. the rest of the law, and the trump administration so argued, could hold up. that includes controversial parts like medicaid expansion
for hiv patients. now the trump administration is saying we want to throw the baby out with the bath water. barr surely feels some institutional yearning as a lawyer to not necessarily have to take that radical step. >> we'll come back here in a moment and talk more about immigration. coming up in the next hour, the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll with fresh insight into how americans feel about president trump, robert moouell, and the 2020 candidates. up next, the latest battle in the war of the president is waging on immigration. ng on imm.
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this is "up." i'm david gura. president trump says he'll close the u.s./mexico border this week, arguing that would immediately stop all illegal immigration coming into the u.s. those are his words. more than 100,000 undocumented immigrants are poised to cross the border into texas, a crisis that would further overwhelm shelters and processing facilities on the border. the president has also instructed his secretary of state to cut off funding to guatemala, honduras, and el salvador. advocates s advocates say that cutting the funds will only accelerate the migrant flows into the united states. u.s. immigration officials are currently holding hundreds of migrants in a temporary outdoor
detention camp in el paso. former congressman beto o'rourke kicked off his presidential campaign in that city, his hometown, yesterday, and he had this to say about that encampment. >> let's remember that every single one of us, including those who are just three or four blocks from here, detained under the international bridge that connects us with mexico behind chain link fence and barbed wire, that they are our fellow human beings. >> roberto ferdman joins us now, reporter for vice. here's some of his reporting.
>> saying if we talk, they give us 15 more days in here. roberto joins us now. walk us through what's happening underneath that international bridge. why is this happening, to your understanding? >> so the reason why this is happening, at least according to border patrol, is because they're overwhelmed. you cited the hundred thousand apprehensions number. that's a number they continue to cite. one day last week they said they apprehended more than 4,000 migrants just here in el paso. that being said, last night they actually closed down that outdoor holding facility underneath the bridge. calling it a facility might be a little generous. but they've moved everyone who is there to an indoor facility, an existing one, and it kind of raises the question of why that wasn't done weeks ago.
this outdoor facility has been used since early march. we don't have a precise date, but for several weeks at this point. >> maria, you were talking about the attention this is getting now and to roberto's point this could have been done weeks ago. what's your sense of why that wasn't the case, the optics of this? this is something the secretary of homeland security has been talking about. >> what i'm thinking about here is the fact this is being called a crisis. yes, there is a humanitarian crisis, and yes, there are thousands of people at the border. this has been happening in our country for a long time. in other words, the pictures that we now see of all of these crowds of people trying to get in plays exactly into what donald trump started by saying, look, they're coming. the process to come in as a refugee legally is actually not that difficult. you present yourself, you're interviewed, and because you're seeking asylum, unless you're like a known criminal, they're going to let you come in and
present your case. then you come back and present yourself again. this is the way it used to be, way back when in the good old days. now what they've done is take every single person who's applying for refugee status and hold them. they put them in the detention centers. what they have done is they've created a crisis that doesn't need to be existing. all of those people who are there, who are desperate people, who are not coming to go pick apples or fruit, those are people who are desperate. they could be allowed in, and the crisis goes away. the visual goes away because those people are not coming to harm anyone in this country. so the whole conversation has completely gotten so complicated an
complicated. the administration created this crisis in order to play to their base. instead of people saying, those are women and children in their majority who are coming here. >> roberto, as you were trying to talk to those migrants, i wonder if you got a sense of the degree to which they're able to follow where this conversation is in this country. just a few moments ago we were talking about the president's plan to seal the border, announcing he's going to cut off funding to three of these countries in central america. how unaware are the in this country? >> you know, they are aware of kind of the broad conversation being had. they know that the president in the united states wants to crack down on this. they know that things might change going forward. generally speaking, they just want to improve their own personal family situation. they're coming up because they're experiencing violence, whether it's in honduras or guatemala or el salvador, and i heard from several different people that they were told that the process was basically one in which they were detained for one
or two days then released, which tells me two things. one, their understanding is that it won't be too onerous, and two, that information is getting down to folks. >> bill barr was very derisive about migrants, called it a con job. we were talking during the break about the history here. he's ignorant of the humanity. he's ignorant of the history as well. >> this hardly capartly came oud war ii. my family left holland looking where to go. they looked at palestine, cuba, and settled on new york. the world said, we cannot let this happen again. we cannot turn away people from the border and send them back to what could be certain death,
which is the case with people who traveled 2,000 miles with their children. and where's our sense of who we are as a country? america is an idea. we're not just an ethnic group. we're an idea, an idea about opening our arms and a sense of freedom and rule of law. this is more and more shocking on an every day basis and ignores the history of why we have asylum laws. >> lisa, i see you nodding. >> yeah, i am, because lawyers are taking up the battle. let's not forget, this is one of a series of actions the trump administration is taking to try to shut down the borders, contrary to the laws that allowed in the wake of your family and mine trying to get here in the face of danger. 16 states are suing the administration over its attempt to use emergency powers to build a wall. i know that was last month's crisis. that's still ongoing. two states are challenging what used to be called the muslim ban, the ban on allowing immigrants from certain
countries. that litigation is still ongoing. these cases tend to grind their way through the courts. they don't create the same heartbreaking pictures we just saw, but they are an attempt to push back on what many would argue is just a radical change. >> fred was talking about idealism, the thought of america as an idea. that's something we heard echoed in what beto o'rourke had to say. no accident he addressed what was happening beneath that bridge. how big is that void when you look at political discourse in this country today, to have people talking in those terms? >> i think from the president's perspective, which is extremely troubling being a minority, this motion of ethno-nationalism, which fred alluded to, meaning if i'm essentially white, then some kind of way all of this is essentially mine by virtue of my ethnicity, which is counterintuitive or antithetical to the idea of america. i think what many of the
democratic candidates are doing, though i may disagree with some of the policy positions on how to formally address immigration, i think is right. i'm a bit disappointed in republicans in particular because when you think about republicans 60 years ago, many of these issues republicans were on the right side of history on. now you have donald trump who is tapping into a base of people who are decreasing. we know in the next 15 or 20 years, a majority of the country will be people of color. donald trump has placated to their fears that if the country changes, then your way of survival, everything that you know will change instead of saying, we have to adapt. and donald trump isn't doing that. i think the longer he continues with the divisive rhetoric, i think you're going to continue to see this humanitarian crisis at the border. and david, i got to tell you, if we don't do something to address this, you could potentially have thousands of people forced to return back to their home countries, and they could be killed. they could find themselves in
extreme poverty conditions. i think the united states of america will be partly to blame if we don't do something to address these issues. >> fred, what he's saying is an optimistic picture, if you can call it that, that they would make it back home. you were just in mexico. you said you encountered folks who won't be able to get back home. they're without a country. >> when i was in mexico just last week, i met a young woman who came to this country as an infant. she was put on a little raft across the rio grande, lived here for 16 years. she never realized she wasn't born in this country. she went to school then was deported with her family. there's a sense they don't belong in america, and they're not really welcome in mexico. they don't speak the same spanish. they don't have the same cultural background. they're more americanized. i felt great sorrow and pain meeting these people because they really feel totally rootless. they've been expelled from a country they thought was their home. they've been sent some place that doesn't want them either. >> maria, last question here.
it's a media criticism question, but you say the president has these narratives he's driving. how do you deal with it? there will be a lot of talk about the legality of closing the u.s./mexico border. should there be? what's the proper way to respond to what the president is pushing? >> well, that's a huge question. i mean, my question is what are the democrats doing? hello, i mean, you're the ones who have to respond to this. as a humanitarian, as a journalist, i know what i have to do. in terms of having a political response to this, what is the response of the democrats? to constantly say, well, we need border security, so we need to keep things under control, as opposed to having some kind of a message that completely flips the script. and that's why -- that's not my job. my job is not to help them figure out how to create a message around this. but seriously? with all of this time that's
gone by -- and by the way, for this administration to say, oh, my god, we're overwhelmed at the border. where's all of that money you've been pouring into the border? what are you doing with it? where has it gone? where's the paper trail? how do we figure out -- so to me, it's just, it continues to be another way in which human beings like your family, like my family are being used as political fodder. >> republicans must also be held accountable. >> oh, completely, absolutely. >> they have to be held responsible. i'm a christian. i can't imagine the same bible that i read, the same bible that i presume these folks also read would allow me to treat other people the way that many republicans are essentially treating these people by standing behind the president. it's disgusting. it's despicable. >> we need those evangelicals and christians to say this. >> these are not economic immigrants. these are not immigrants saying i want a better life in terms of
the economy. i can't support my family. these are people coming here out of fear for their life, out of fear for their family, a fear their homes will be ransacked, for crime, for rape, murder. that's why they're coming. they're not just coming because, oh, we can earn a better living in america. that's a very different kind of immigrant. >> roberto ferdman joining us today from el paso. appreciate the time. still ahead, a major fundraising deadline for candidates seeking the democratic nomination. it's triggering a mad dash for cash. up next, the power of the country's largest exporter, wheels over washington. s larges wheels over washington ♪
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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. word this week that some of boeing's grounded 737 max airplanes will not be airborne until may at the earliest. that's according to a memo distributed to pilots for southwest airlines. u.s. safety investigators say the anti-stall system was engaged during the deadly ethiopian airlines plane crash before that boeing 737 max hit the ground, killing all 157 passengers. boeing has announced the release of a new software fix, as it awaits faa approval. the fact a safety feature was
marketed as an option took many lawmakers by surprise. >> should they have been mandatory? yes or no? >> senator, safety critical pieces of equipment on an aircraft are mandatory. that's what certification does. if it's safety critical -- >> so you don't think that they should have been mandatory? is that what you're saying? is that what you just said? >> sir, i'm saying that any safety -- >> yes or no. should they have been mandatory? yes or no? >> senator markey never got an answer from the acting administrator of the faa. >> may god bless the united states of america and god bless boeing. >> questions have arisen about the cozy relationship between the faa and boeing, which is the nation's largest exporter and second largest defense contractor. boeing has spent close to $32 million in lobbying expenses over the past two years
combined. there have been proposals on how to change how plane manufacturers are regulated. the acting faa director points out that without a cooperative relationship with boeing, it would require roughly 10,000 more employees to do that role at the faa and about $1.8 billion for a certification office in the faa. coming up, president trump walked away from the table in hanoi. what message did that send to china as the world's two largest economies continue to hammer out a trade deal? a trade deal ♪
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well, trade talks continue with china this week. the country's vice premier is traveling to washington for another round of negotiations. after the treasury secretary steve mnuchin and robert lighthizer visited bay spring on thursday and friday, the white house said this. the two parties continue to make progress during candid and constructive discussions on the negotiati negotiations and important next steps. many wonder how the chinese outlook changed after hanoi when president trump walked away empty handed in his discussions with kim jong-un, referring to china when he did so. >> i'm always prepared to walk. i'm never afraid to walk from a deal. i would do that with china too, if it didn't work out. >> fred, he's drawing the connection there. that was a summit focused on nuclear weapons, principally.
he talked a lot about prospects for that economy growing. do you draw the line there? do you think the chinese were watching that closely for an indication of what might happen? >> possibly. the problem is, i think with north korea and more with north korea, is these talks need a lot of preparation. the whole point of the two principals coming in is the last 2%, 3%. donald trump approached this as i'm going to do the whole thing myself. i alone can fix this. and he proved he cannot alone fix this. so i think that there is a difference between what's going on in north korea and with china. also, this is not a real estate deal. if i don't like the property at 56th and 5th, i'm going to buy another piece of property four blocks away. that's not how this works. north korea is not moving. china is not moving. they're rather permanent. so just getting up and walking away from the table in a dr
dramatic gesture. >> this has gone on for a long time. when i think about this vis-a-vis the conversation with north korea, you've had this administration saying over and over again, time is not of the essence. we're going to take time for all this to figure out. nothing is motivating us to get this done quickly. is that the case with the trade deal? how does that pose problems, not having that motivation? >> fred and i were talking about this earlier. china has been a bad actor for a long time. from a political perspective, think about places like iowa, ohio. farmers have been devastated by this. you now see presidential candidates on the democratic side like elizabeth warren now trying to come up with policy issues to address this. i think there is a potential opening there. i deon't think the president truly understands the gravity of this. you cannot just walk away from this. this is not going to benefit both countries if we don't figure out some kind of way to come up with a substantive deal. the notion that the president is a great, you know, i guess,
dealer, negotiator, if you will, we have no proof of that as of yet. i'm just being honest. so look, i think the president needs to really buckle down here and look at how this is impacting his strongest base of supporters, a lot of folks in middle america. politically, this is not good for him. i think if democrats are smart, they would begin to look a little more at how they can potentially sway some of those voters who voted for him in '16 to consider voting for a democrat because his policies are not impacting those people in a positive way. >> lisa, when i look at what changed after that summit, certainly the prospect of there being another mar-a-lago summit has been tabled. there was talk of that happening in march. i don't believe there's anything on the calendar at this point. was that a symbolic end to this level or this kind of personal diplomacy that the president had championed for so long? >> what the president is seeing this year is something he didn't see last year. all of a sudden, he needs congress' help. they jettison nafta, now we have the new trade agreement.
that needs congressional approval. you can't do that as a mar-a-lago summit. you have to reach across the aisle and see if congress will approve it. i don't get the sense congress is in any rush to ratify that. so the president did what he could, it seems to me, in 2018 to act unilaterally, make these changesing impose some tariffs, try to get these negotiating partners to the table. if that's not working out, could compromise be the way? and how likely is that in many administration? >> maria, we're talking about the president's outlook toward central america, to mexico. what does this say about his global world view? >> well, one, the global view is that mexicans and chinese, scary, problematic, difficult to control. just writ large. but here's this other -- and let me take a second to explain this. my brother from ucla, shout out to the bro, he's an economist. i was on the phone with him trying to understand.
so there are -- in china, there are hundreds of millions of undocumented people within china. they're chinese undocumented. they're not like mexican undocumented. they're chinese. you're documented if you live in the rural area. if you leave the rural area to come to the city, you're an undocumented chinese. so what china is doing is they're actually attempting to document these people because then the domestic economy is going to increase, it's going to raise. you're going to document them, increase their wages. they're going to have more money to spend. what are they going to do when they have money? they want to eat more chicken and pork. what do they need to do to get the chicken and pork? they have to be fed soybeans. those soybeans come from middle america. so donald trump's supporters are going to have to support the legalizing of undocumented chinese in order for their personal economy to increase. got it? so the connection should also be to those donald trump
supporters, legalize undocumented immigrants in the united states, right? and your personal economy is also going to go up. why? because if you pay people higher wages, they're going to spend more money. so did you see that big circle? >> with props to your brother. well done. all right. up next, the 2020 hopefuls barnstorming iowa, hoping to make a slash in the heartland. that's coming up next. heartland. that's coming up next. (nat♪re sounds)
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this is a campaign for america, for everyone in america. >> this is "up." i'm david gura. beto o'rourke making it official yesterday, promising his campaign will be one for everyone in america. after three rallies in texas, he'll visit washington, d.c., on monday. then he's off to new york, back to iowa. that'll be his second trip to the hawkeye state. he has almost two dozen events planned over the course of four days. this weekend, several other democratic candidates are in iowa for the heartland forum. it gave voters a chance to hear the candidates talk about their plans for ag policy. joining us now is msnbc contributor -- correspondent, rather, garrett haake.
he was at those three events yesterday. i know the former congressman is a fan of the clash. let me quote the great joe strummer here. in these days of evil presidentes, what are we going to do now? what was do now? >> yes, that's right. that is his new walk-on song. i'm not able to access the pastry plate, so i did bring my own this morning. o'rourke is coming out with a stylistic with president trump. he wants to be the antidote and in the stump speech talking about radical humanity and treat people at our borders humanely and ending this love affair with dictators and, forgive me, it's
windy out here in austin today. he started to fill in the gaps on these policy questions. it's been really interesting. i don't know if it's in response to the crit. ises he has gotten or merely as the campaign has gone along but these three large rallies you see him talking more specifically about ways he would address health care, criminal justice and democracy reform and ending policy jgerrymandering. this is the difference when we talk about this policy stuff. he's not coming out with his very own specific plans, but he is tartistarting to tell voters more how he would do it. this stylistic and temperamental difference he is trying to paint with president trump. saying he will not divide, he is not going to attack and not going to be that way. and at least here in texas where folks know him a lot better, that's been very well received. >> garret, lisa green is here to
my left. i know she has a question for you. >> the question has to do with iowa and organization because my understanding is one of the keys to winning the iowa caucus is to be well organized early. i wondered, although i know you're in texas right now. if you could shed some light on how the democratic hopefuls are doing when it comes to that key factor for victory? >> yeah, in this regard, o'rourke is certainly playing catch up. they have essentially one staffer and his title hasn't been given yet. but executive director of the iowa committee is coming onboard. it's a weak cliche to say how important iowa is, but especially in this cycle where new hampshire up second you have the state surrounded by home state senators on either side with bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. who comes out of iowa strong will be particularly important. given the caucus format, you have to be organized on the ground. a lot of campaigns staffing up
aggressively and in the midterms you saw folks like cory booker spend significant amounts of time on the ground there campaigning for local candidates trying to get activists to know their name and have their phone number and be able to introduce them in coffee shops and in bars and in these smaller events down there. the way these campaigns staff up and organize, absolutely be important. that's part of the reason you're seeing o'rourke do the blitzes there. two dozen events over four days at the end of the week. to make up for lost time in some of these states where these folks have been running for quite a while now. >> in my journalism groups and organizations there is a lot of talk of beto o'rourke and his relationships regarding policy and something that came up last week is that beto o'rourke supports statehood for puerto rico. this is something of a surprise for progressive latinos and
lutinas saying, what, he supports statehood. this notion of him not having his own policies and as he kind of gets out there, more of his stances becoming more public. this could kind of backfire, right? a lot of people who have a serious microscope on him and certainly latinos and latinas a are watching watching him very closely. did you feel any concern or blow back in those meetings? >> in el paso where we started yesterday he is very well known in the community and speaks spanish and on the city council there. not to say his record is spotless. one of the controversies of his time in el paso was a development project in el paso that he had supported that a lot of the residents there had opposed at the time. he's known and sort of a known in the hispanic community and he did well with hispanic voters in the texas senate race, but not
overwhelmingly so. it wasn't a hugely dominant performance. i am talking 65% or 70% of the vote. it's not maybe what you would expect against someone like ted cruz. the puerto rico question is interesting. again, not a question he would have ever been asked during the texas senate race, but a policy they're formulating as they go. i expect we would be in puerto rico which is becoming an important stop for these candidates in the not too distant future. >> what are you looking for here we are 600 days out. we have some time. if you're looking at beto and iowa, how are you crafting your decision at this point? >> one thing about iowa, i was there. i sat in the caucus room in '03/'04 race and john edwards came in second and i watch how it works. the caucus is organized and then if there is not enough of a majori majority, pull people away. having your support is really
skilled at saying, come on, david. maybe you ought to join us. it makes all the difference because it is very fragile. very much on the ground. i think what we're looking for, people are looking for is someone who is going to excite the voters. bill clinton did that. barack obama did that. both excited voters and also said they could do the job. we had other candidates. howard dean excited people, but he did not convince people to do the job. we need something to xhexcite people and who is going to expand the economic pie and expand opportunity? >> glad we could invite you here. garrett, we appreciate the time and appreciate the reporting, as well. thank you to my panel here in new york. up ahead in fewer than five minutes, we'll bring you the results of the latest nbc news 2020 poll. you'll see that data first right here on msnbc.
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many democrats want to see the report in full by tuesday, two days from now. new polling on how americans have reacted to the conclusion of the special counsel's investigation and what they think should happen next. i will start with what may be an astonishing fact, astonishing to me, perhaps to you, as well. when asked about robert mueller, 22% of respondents say they don't know his name or not sure. so, there's that. 78% said they heard of robert mueller that he finished his report. half of that group said they heard about it a lot. you're welcome. 22% have not heard the news. on the big question, does robert mueller support clear president trump? 40% say no and 29% say and 31% are unsure. with house speaker nancy pelosi pumping the brakes on the impeachment conversation, should congress begin impeachment proceedings? 47% say no.
alina maxwell is also an msnbc analyst and matthew miller, our nbc justice and security analyst chief spokesman for the justice department. honorary man, christopher, joining us here on set msnbc contributor, as well. annette, let me start with the first thing that caught me by surprise. people in the great country of ours that does not know who robert mueller is. what does that tell you? yes, obsessiveness to the coverage or focus on this investigation, but parts of the country where it doesn't seem to be resonating. >> it feels like people can name all the kardashians, but not able to identify who robert mueller is and that's a particular problem in this moment when the national security implications of the national security investigation is something that affects every single american whether they're paying attention or not. indicative of the fact that this has been a complicated process, a long process.
always new developments and indictments and the russian names. so, it's hard for an ordinary american to follow that. but i do think that if and when the actual report comes out because, again, asking someone about a report they haven't read is an interesting poll to take. but once tit gets into the hand of congress, we can come down and make a final judgment. >> you have been looking at the attorney general and do you think the first memo that he wrote, now a week ago, that happened last sunday, what accounted to him moving so quickly? >> i think he absolutely should have waited. he moved so quickly because he wanted to give a little advantage to the president. he could have either done one or two things. c or he could have taken the
report and waited and sent the redacted version up after he makes the redactions that are appropriate. he did something in the middle where he did not just release the principal conclusions and the reason you saw this friday letter from him, he was stung by the criticism. i don't think he was expecting it. one thing about serving in this justice department for this president, you are constantly going to be asked to be loyal to the president or do the right thing. he's watched what happened in the last two years and seems very worried about being criticiz criticized. even when he's doing something that favors the president. he wants to do it in a way that he can say is legally defensi e defensible. >> from his perch in the kennedy building, he can see how this reverberated politically. the president seized upon what was in that initial memo. your reaction to that. how moldable it was to this
preside president. >> i think it is amazing you have 70% of americans who say the president saw the report and no collusion and are like, no, we'll wait. we still need to know more. 70% of americans do not believe the president of the united states when he says he's exonerated. that is an incredible moment we're having right here. because this is such an incredibly important document. you know, we don't know how this document is going to say that the russians tried to tip the scales in this election. we know it does say that and we know many members of the republican party are adamant that this document not seen by the american people. so, the devil is going to be in the details. we know a lot of the republican swamp was involved with the russians. i think those details are going to be very, very important. >> just a quick pause here for the audience. the memo is not the report, the report is not the memo. that's an important distinction. it was the opposite of it. he's using them as one of the
same. they are calling this the report when it is not. >> david, a basic problem. when you live overseas like i do, these things become clearer. washington is obsessed with this report and this letter and these issues. most of america, and your poll says this, isn't really engaged in this stuff. if you live overseas, the thing that is amazing is that the question of collusion between the russians and trump is demonstrated almost on a daily basis by the president of the united states. you have the president of the united states that the russians were supporting, actively supporting. we know that from the mueller investigation, from the indictments. not from any of this mysterious stuff. we know he benefitted from the russian action. benefited mightily. we know that he publicly encouraged them to do it and once he became president, he active actively defended them and he stood in front of the entire world and said i believe
vladimir putin and not my own intelligence services. that's what you call collusion. i don't understand why we need the mueller report to tell us that he's colluding. he colludes in front of us every day. >> i think about the fact, to your point, that if he had done these things in private or if we saw an e-mail that said, hey, russia, find those 33,000 e-mails and it was in a private communication, then that would have been a smoking gun for collusion. but if he does it on camera on live television we're like, i wonder what he's doing here, it must be a joke. a lot of the things that he's doing that we don't know about and even barr had to admit that in his carefully parsed letter. he admitted information about obstruction that we don't know yet. >> i read a piece by sally yates and she gets some of these issues. your arereaction to this. what you're seeing is proudly, when you talk about the way russia was involved.
>> i think the russians call it -- >> but sally yates making the point that all of this happened. that was part and parcel of this investigation to prevent that from happening yet again. there is ignorance of it and when you listen to president trump on the stump in grand rapids. almost as if, let's forget about the degree we were molded and shaped in 2016. >> one of the president's defenses is his shamelessness. the fact that he has no shame and will say these things in public is an argument that he couldn't have corrupt because he is telling it to the american people. that is true for most people. it is not true for a person with no shame who will come out and say something as shameless as the russians ought to hack into my opponent. sally yates is right in her piece. the american public needs to see all this was the question we have lost sight of really in the last two years by setting this bar, did the president commit a crime or not is, were his actions okay? were his actions on the campaign
okay? his actions in office to fire the fbi director after he was asked to back off an investigation and the fbi director didn't do that. were they acceptable actions? if we set the bar at criminality, it's always going to be very difficult to establish that, especially a president who behaves the way he does publicly. by some definition, makes it okay because you have 40%, 45% of the american public think it's okay. the question we will have to ask when we see this final report is, was this an acceptable standard for this president to behave and the new norms governing presidents going forward? are presidents allowed to open collude over the course of a campaign. >> how interested are you in this impeachment question? y what you think about the way democrats are dealing with this in congress? not a lot of enthusiasm for the
impeachment to begin. the release of this memo and you have bill barr saying we'll get it to you in some form by the middle of march and jerry nadler saying we want it by the second. is there a cohesive strategy you detect? what do you make of this approach? >> they're clearly waiting for the public opinion to turn, hey, this guy did something really wrong and also to laugh during these dark, dark times. i imagine donald trump writing an e-mail. get in here. no, he doesn't e-mail. as one of, you know, one of my friends says, the guy talks in code. he doesn't write e-mail. and he only trusts his family. it will be hard to get him on crimes. but what the political messaging here is, as you said, is this acceptable to the american people? and as more and more of this comes out, we're going to be able to decide, is his behavior acceptable as the u.s. head of state? and that is where the messaging
war is going. and that is why you see this continued, investigative push from the house. and i think it's great. keep going. >> i think the problem with trump is that he is entertaining. and i think that a lot of his backers, accept that he is lying to them. but they are entertained. i mean, the analogy that strikes me and this is relevant to trump because he used to be involved with it, pro wrestling. you could take an audio from a pro wrestling match and you could make them a trump rally or trade them back and forth. it's the same thing. they know it's a lie they know it's fake. but they don't care. they like the emotion and the entertainment. coming up here this morning, the former vice president reacting to allegations of inappropriate behavior. we'll tell you what joe biden said after this break. >> teacher: you did?! oh, i can't wait to read it.
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joe biden the former vice president continuing to distance himself from claims of inappropriate conduct back in 2014. in a statement released just moments ago, the former vice president says in my many years on the campaign trail and in public life, i have offered countless hand shakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort and not once, never, did i believe i acted inappropriately. if it suggested i did so, i will listen respectfully, but it was never my intention.
nbc news has not conformed allegations from flores. joining me now is mike, national political reporter for nbc news, my colleague who covers joe biden an awful lot. start with your reaction, if we could, mike, to this story. we got a statement from the former vice president spokesman immediately after it was published and now we're hearing from the vice president. >> it's interesting, i covered joe biden very closely for the last ten years and it's clear something in the past two weeks has changed as both the press and his potential opponents and the public are scrutinizing him in a very different way. you will remember it was two weeks ago when he almost announced he was running for president. and typically when we begin to scrutinize potential presidential candidates we tend to focus on things that were not seen in public before. think of amy and how she treats her staff, for instance. we're discussing alleged conduct by the vice president that very
well happened in public life. i should also note last night we had a statement from the co-organizer of this campaign event in 2014 and he said he reviewed documentary evidence, photographs from that event and he has spoken with just about every principal who was there for it and he does not believe that the circumstances support that this allegation took place. we should note, of course, that this new statement from the vice president does not deny it. but what he's saying is that this is sort of the kind of conduct that he would engage in regularly. very much a tactile politician to use the word that he used to describe himself. but we're in a different era now. all these actions are being scrutinized in a different way. >> i'll read a read to a great piece in the at lant"atlantic" it. not in a way that is likely to help if he decides to run for president. mike alluding to how long this tease has played out here, whether or not he will run for president. your reaction to this latest
allegation. what it says to you about the internal calculus the presidehe through. >> we are going to basically analyze his record and there are pieces out analyzing his criminal justice record and saying he is not the candidate for this particular moment given how he triangialated towards some communities in the past. between his advocacy and full disclosure, i'm on the biden foundation advisory council to combat violence against women. his advocacy post anita hill has been on the one hand, incredible, because he's really tried to reframe the conversation consent and bystander intervention. on the other hand, there is an uncomfortable contradiction because mike is right. a lot of this conduct is on video. how is he going to either apologize or explain that conduct and how it mirrors and
matches up with his advocacy. >> mike, in that piece, a point he makes in that piece is that if joe biden had declared he was r running for president, a campaign apparatus to deal with this. to what degree does that exist? biden left the vice presidency and went on to do a number of things, including starting this institute in delaware. how big of a deficit that he doesn't have that? >> good point, david. and isaac was a great piece that he posted last night. he does have a very small nucleus. a very small inner circle of the biden campaign to the extent that the biden campaign exists just yet. they have been very weary of getting ahead of a final decision that has not been made and that final decision would trigger the hiring of a number of other staff. i have been asked myself in the past when is the surrogate team going to know out? what we've seen was organically
biden staffers are starting to tweet in support of him saying this is the kind of behavior that they have not witnessed themselves. if they ever felt he was making women uncomfortable, they would have spoken up. the vice president's team is working to address this. we see that with the statement today following 48 hours from a statement from his spokesperson. isaac's point is a great one. until you have a campaign launched and all the trappings that go with it, it is hamstringing his response a bit. >> when it came to anita hill hearings by the vice president, she didn't get the hearing she deserved, i think he said. not a direct policy that he had a lot of. he was running those committee hearings. factor that into this whole conversation, as well. what we heard earlier this week before this article was published. >> the main question is, is biden the man for these times? our country is very, very
different than it was even four years ago. a very different concept of what is acceptable and unacceptable. this is a man with a lot of baggage and democrats tend to do better with candidates that don't have as much baggage. maybe we need a clean guy like a barack obama in this case where people can't go back 15, 20 years and say, hey, remember when you said this. maybe we need a fresh face. and i think that would be, that's something that he is going to have to grapple with a lot if he runs. >> chris, she's being generous saying 15, 20 years. you could go back 40 years. >> doesn't it strike anyone as ironic that we are talking about the guy or person who is going to run against the president who talks about -- >> it's unfair. >> doesn't it strike anybody? incredibly ironic and, i mean, trump just must be in hysterics laughing at all of this because he does everything so publicly
and totally out front and two women he had affairs with. it goes on and on. >> the guy has no policy. >> and we're talking about did joe biden kiss this woman on the top of the head? what are we talking about. >> we'll come back. on the 70th birthday, concern life may soon be coming to an end. the fight to keep the u.s. in nato and the search for someone, anyone in the administration willing to defend him.
i'm david gura. president trump is set to meet with the secretary-general is also scheduled to address a joint session of congress. the white house releasing the following statement about the visit. quote, in honor of the 70th anniversary of nato the secretary-general will underscore the importance of the alliance of international peace and security. and when the president visited nato headquarters in brussels last summer, cost factors associated with the national alliance were among his top concerns. >> i told people that i would be
very unhappy if they didn't up their commitments very substantially because the united states has been paying a tremendous amount. probably 90% of the cost of nato. >> this past week, the commander in chief, once again, talking dollars and scents when discussing the 29-member international alliance with gop senators up on capitol hill venting that nato costs too much and even complaining that its headquarters in brussels were too expensive. chief diplomacy analyst and former supreme ally commander. great to have you with us. give us your expectations for how this is going to go. many points over the past two years when he has met with president trump and not the first thing that the president has said. does anything give you any sense or expectation that this time is going to be different? >> i think there will be a public relations veneer on top of this that is going to be positive. but, clearly, president trump,
unfortunately, and i think unfairly, categorizes nato as a bunch of free loading europeans. it really, it is not the fact set that is correct. nato is a pretty balanced operation as follows. u.s. spends about $600 billion a year on defense. russia, to give you context, david, spends $80 billion a year. china spends about $200 billion a year. how much do those free loading europeans spend? they spend over $300 billion. the second largest defense budget in the world is the european union collectively. it's bigger than russia and china combined. the europeans set a goal of 2% of gdp for their defense budget. they're not meeting that. we should continue to hit them on that. the bottom line is that alliance is good value for the money. i think you'll hear that from
the president and i think the address to congress by secretary-general will go over very well. that's historic. >> christopher dickey, i'm not sure if you were there when the president went down to brussels and how is that resonating? the admiral saying he is hitting these allies to pay more money? >> i think the first thing you need to understand is that for a long time trump talked about burden sharing as if it were the same as paying dues at mar-a-lago. it's not about, it's not about paying dues. it is about the share of the gdp that go towards defense. he talks about free loading europeans, the united states is the only one of the countries that we're talking about that protec protects globally. it's not to defend europe but defend american interests worldwide. the worst thing about trump, he
doesn't understand the principal as an alliance. he believes pay the united states to defend them. should be reimbursed for not only defending europe, but korea. he demands korea pay more money for americans to be there. any country that the u.s. is involved with defending should pay us to defend them directly. that's his mindset. a typical new york real estate businessman mindset. nothing to do with international alliances. who buys into this? who is very comfortable with paying mercenaries to defend them? the saudis. they do it all the time. they hire children in sudan to defend them. >> what is the alliance supposed to be when you look at it in the greater context here. what is it supposed to do? >> defending democracy and
principles. it is ironic that he thinks it is too expensive. should we put some nice deck rapgz deckerations in there so he finds it attractive. no one likes this talk more than vladimir putin. that's what we have to take away from here. this is very good for him. this is why the russian government worked so hard and so did trump's former campaign manager to make sure that a good government for the russians was in power in the ukraine. we see how these satellite states and russia is encroaching on them and nato is supposed to be able to work for that. >> it's public collusion, again. >> go ahead, please. >> let me just make kind of a personal point, if i may. i was supreme ally commander for four years during the height of the afghan mission. tragically, i signed 2,000
letters of condolence personally to ever aen with who died under my command. well over a third of those went to europeans. they were in afghanistan to fight and die alongside us because of 9/11. because of the treaty of the alliance. in fact, the only time the treaty has been invoked in terms of an attack on one was an attack on all was following 9/11. secondly to the values ue set a agree completely with the comments we just heard. we have to remember this is our best pool of partners in the world who have stood with us in afghanistan, in libya, in the balkans, in piracy. they are part of the global effort that we undertake. there is real value in this alliance and we need to stop thinking of it as was just said as a protection racket and think about it as a two-way street across the atlantic. >> something is happening here.
we have seen, of course, secretary mattis leave washington, d.c., and defenders leave and speaking before congress and make his pitch and make one to lawmakers. how resinate is that going to be? has he tried his best with the administration? that is the better audience. >> receptive audience with congress. one of the things that worried me and i think it clearly worries him is the president's views are malleable. he is influenced by the last person in the room and one point of view that he held for a long time and for the first few years of the administration, you saw view s be delayed and his views on nato, the concerns he will act on him. giving the president at least the fig leaf of a victory and
something he can claim he did. he doesn't need to influence nato's behavior. he needs to stand up and say they did what i asked them to. you will see him use some words that give the president that victory. whether it's real or not, it doesn't matter but might keep him on board a little longer. >> mentioning the money when i see him speaking about this very issue. general, appreciate the time, as always. new details on the fight between jeff bezos and "national enquirer" which may involve the s saudis gaining access to private information. saudis gaining access to private information. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them.
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welcome back. explosive new allegations in "daily beast" now "national enquirer" on jeff bezos' affair. private investigator writes our investigators and several experts concluded with high confidence that the saudis had access to jeff bezos' fophone a gained private information. it's unclear to what degree, if any, they had. he said the publication had threatened to publish intimate photos of him unless the tabloid's reporting is not politically motivated. bezos' investigator handed over his findings. some americans will be surprised to learn that the saudi
government has been intent on harming jeff bezos since last october when "washington post" the paper he owns of jamal khashoggi's murder. nbc news has not confirmed the finding. walk us through what we learned from this piece. you and your colleagues at "the daily beast" have been digging into this. when you look at what is alleged, what is new and how extraordinary is this? >> we broke the news some weeks ago that the person who leaked jeff bezos' text messages was a man named michael sanchez who s is. what gavin debecker came out and said yesterday is that he is confident there were actually two sources involved in this story is that is based on part in his own investigation and in part on a "wall street journal"
story last week that noted "enquirer" had gotten wind of this affair before they were even in talks with michael sanchez. the suggestion some other source there that initially gave them some bit of information that had them chasing this lead. and the indication in mr. debecker's column that could be the saudi government. >> got wind, that is what is so fascinating about this. it technology is so key to this. how were saudis, how does he allege the saudi kingdom was able to obtain this information? >> that's something he doesn't detail. you know, he leaves open the possibility of electronic eve eavesdropping or hack or possessing jeff bezos' phone at some point. he doesn't go into that much detail. that's something we will continue chasing and continue to report out. and litny any of new bits of information in that new column
consulting with a number of current and former high-level aides to donald trump as part of his investigation. there certainly is a lot more to come out both on the allegations themselves and i think a lot of theinsulry issues. >> he said he handed over this investigation to federal officials. what are the next steps for the u.s. government and fbi? >> i presume they handle this as a hacking. that is a kind of a read between the lines and take away from his piece. they have been able to conclude it was the saudis just based on the tools they have come up with. they don't have the tools the fbi have. they don't have that power. i would assume this is an investigation conducted where
they are under attempted extortion with that deal. if they are able to prove hacking on behalf of the saudi government or some actors acting on their behalf, what happens with that? usually the justice department would bring charges with that case. the one area where the white house, i won't say intervene, but where it is appropriate for the white house to discuss appropriate charges comes in the national security arena. the justice department wanted to bring charges against saudi hackers for this hack and the white house saying, well, these are allies of ours and basically inertveni v intervening to protect. "washington post" is a very dicy situation. >> let's just step back here and look at this whole story. as you mentioned there, all happening in the southern district. but front and center and that relationship that he had with the president of the united states. the diagram here is greatly overlapping, isn't it? >> it reminds us all that we
need to see the mueller report because a lot of the details in this particular scandal are also in the russia scandal. so, i think the foreign business ties, you know, and the idea that potentially some of the administration behavior is because jared kushner is so buddy, buddy or has some sort of financial dealings or loans that could compromise this administration's point of view and behavior towards our national interest. i think this is a dangerous moment as much as it's a moment where we're all shaking our hands because we can't believe it's happening. also something that is a national security issue. it won't cease to be a national security issue until we know everything, not just about donald trump's relationship with ami and how they have potentially, here they have seemed to intervene in this particular case, but they have a vault of information. what other types of scandals are they covering up and what other types of extortion and blackmail. right. what else are they engaging in that could potentially help
donald trump or foreign adversaries of this country. that's very concerning. >> very quickly here. we talk about radical transparency through this whole process. >> yes. >> what does that say to you in contrast? >> first of all, who is gavin de becker. get this guy on a netflix special. and the other thing that it says to me, americans are learning a lot more about how the saudis operate. we know now what, we have known what they do to dissidents. they spy on them and use fishing technology to reach into their phones and now it's personal. this is about to become an american issue what the saudis do to their own people they are doing to ours. and about to be a partisan issue, which is something the saudis should not want. it is very stupid. they do not want the saudis to be linked. they should not want to be linked to the republican party. the saudis could lose elections.
this has taken a very different turn, a very foolish turn and, you know, let's wait and see. but it's not going to look good. >> great body of work that you've done with your colleagues there on this whole story. those looking to blow the competition out of the water and then those looking to scrape by. a furious fight for cash as the first ballot of the primary season looms. next. you're having one more bite no! one more bite! ♪
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>> i understand that by making the decision to run a grassroots campaign instead of spending my time with millionaires and ceos, that i was leaving millions and millions of dollars on the table. but, this is the kind of campaign i want to run. well, senator elizabeth warren downplaying expectations for her first quarter. first quarter ends today. by april 15th we will know how the candidates measure up against one another and it does matter. the deadline looms especially large this year in a crowded field in which it's difficult to draw sharp detinctiistinctions candidates. the first financial campaign
report the first quantifiable to see how the candidates are fairing. average donation amounts and the number of contributors so far and totals raised during the first 24 hours of their of their campaigns. we compare those so far, the first 24 hours show kamala harris, bernie sanders and beto o'rourke at the top of the pack with eye popping totals, kamala harris $1.5 million, bernie sanders landed $5.9 million and beto o'rourke topped everyone with $6.1 million in the first 24 hours. you hear from elizabeth warren there, down playing all of this, we have said many times during the course of this broadcast we are many months out from when these contests are going to take place. how much does it matter as you understand it, as somebody who has been on campaigns before, that individual metric of money raised or quantity raised or how many donors that money is raised? >> i don't think there's anything that matters more than that. i think that as we get further and further into the primary process you're going to see people dropping out because they
don't have the money to compete in states like california and nevada and in the other super tuesday states beyond south carolina. so i think that, you know, we should be paying close attention to this number because it's going to give us an indication of who is going to be the player towards the end. if you think about the rule changes, leah daughtry, the ceo of the convention in 2008 and 2016, talks a lot about how the rule changes are going to mean that there are going to be a lot of people who can be in the primary until the convention, but only if they are able to raise a sufficient amount of money. so the rules changes are going to allow more people to be viable, but the only way they're going to even get to that point is if they raise enough money. i think it's important that they are focusing on grassroots donors and not corporate donors because their policies align with that positioning, right? you can't say you are opposed to wall street if you are going to take fundraiser from wall street, so at least they're
consistent on that level. i think that resonates with the base right now. >> chris, to that point there is a lot of emphasis on the quantity of donors, bernie sanders has a number around 20, beto o'rourke around 40, 45, something like that. that's happening and all the while there still is big money fundraising going on, maybe elizabeth warren is not do it, but kamala harris is out in california three our four fundraisers in los angeles, pete buttigieg is doing the same thing. help us understand the balance that candidates face. elizabeth warren issued her decision as a clarion to say look what i'm doing, you should be doing this as well. >> at the end of the day i think the money talks and there are always going to be big donors, even for candidates who start and spend considerable time raising from small donors and even if they don't contribute directly, the money will talk because money is where the lobbyists are hired, money is where you build influence, money is where you buy ads, money is where everything happens at the end of the day. unfortunately -- i mean, i wish
it weren't so, i wish that we had here what we have in some european countries, much more limited campaign spending, much shorter campaigns and the ability to choose the leaders of the country without selling all of them to big donors. >> linette, he brings up the length of the campaign here. >> it's already been two years, right? >> i know, it's been two years already. >> i have no clue. >> there's a gamble here that people will be willing to donate over and over and over again. this quarter is important, but the next quarter is important as well. >> absolutely, and i think that for some of these candidates that's a very viable thing. for bernie, for beto, i mean, camilla has a very excited base, too, and that's really what the democratic party is going to be looking for because we need somebody who can match the excitement of the trump base and get our base out, too. so, you know, the muffin is actually going to tell you a lot if we're going to be taking donations from small donors. this is a described weakness, he
has wall street guys and will go traditional on the fundraising point. >> there has been speculation that joe biden might be waiting because he couldn't have come up with that money ahead of that deadline. >> harris, beto and bernie sanders is that they all had big e-mail lists when they got in. the difference between raising money now and the way we raised money eight years ago is there's so much more money to be raised on line and such a powerful way to raise your money. if you go to a donor once and get a $2300 contribution which is the maximum you can't go back to that donor. if you go to 100 donors and get $23 each you can go back to them over and over again. not only can you raise more money that way but it's a more powerful message. you baurack obama do this very well and that became a message of his campaign. it becomes not just a more successful fundraising tactic, but a message to the voters that
are running a grassroots campaign that's very, very powerful. that's one of the reasons you see elizabeth warren taking up that strategy. >> you can say you're having a grassroots campaign but if you have the level of sophistication that matt is describing, the targeted e-mails, is there such a thing as a grassroots campaign in the year 2019? that's my question to you. >> i don't think that the online aspect of it doesn't make it grassroots, that's still grassroots. sometimes digital organizing gets -- people criticize it as not real. it is real. i do think that online organizing if you are going to small donors that is grassroots. when you're doing high dollar fundraisers and you're claiming that your campaign is really grassroots, i think that there is a contradiction there because that's -- those two things are not equal. so i think that we need to be smart and savvy as voters, you know, who -- what money is going into the campaign that we're supporting and what potential policies would be impacted by where the money is coming from? are they coming from wall street
firms and is that going to impact the policies of that particular candidate? because, again, corporations are not giving money to political campaigns just for the hell of it, there is a purpose. >> all right. that report, again, coming out april 15th i should say that's probably going to be the second most important report that comes out on april 15th if bill barr has his schedule the way he wants it to be. thank you all for joining me in new york. up next on msnbc nbc "a.m. joy," a special guest for who won the week, you will have to watch to see who that is. watch to see who that is. with safelite, you can see exactly when we'll be there. saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ different generations get the same quality of customer service that we have been getting. being a usaa member, because of my service in the military, you pass that on to my kids. something that makes me happy. being able to pass down usaa to my girls means a lot to both of us.
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that does it for me today. thank you for watching. "a.m. joy" with my colleague joy reid starts right now. don't be satisfied with the mueller report. this is bound to happen again because these arrogant lying condescending leaking haters of you and me and the america that doesn't have power are going to do it again unless we stop them, and the only way to stop them is with justice, true justice, and that's behind the bars justice. good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." well, we often talk on this show about earth two, the alternate universe ruled by donald trump, his handlers and his adjunct media outlet fox news, a place where the nation is under invasion