tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC April 11, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
combos. if you do decide to run, don't be cagey. be cheer. you could very well put your candidacy on a path toward success. that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press." good evening. >> we have a huge show tonight. julian assange indicted by the trump justice department of conspiracy, raising questions that what does he know about russian meddling. also, the presidential governor is here on "the beat" tonight. and later, progressives rallying around pelosi power as she takes on the attorney general. we begin tonight with breaking news. the mueller probe ended but today the feds indicting a lawyer for lying to the mueller probe about his work with paul manafort. as i mentioned, this mueller probe has ended. but the feds are not done indicting people who allegedly
lied to mueller. this that i'm holding here is the first mueller related indictment since the probe finished and this is striking for several reasons. let me explain. first, this new indictment of prominent democratic lawyer dave craig touches on several of the biggest issues that mueller was investigating like paul manafort's illegal activities. second, this shows that while mueller did not indict an lexicon spearcy, something we've been careful to report, there is sdny that we hear so much about. and then today d.c. charging this case. third, while president trump has loudly and falsely claimed that the mueller probe was some sort of charge against republicans, this is a fight against white house counsel greg craig and the charges that he hide to mueller about a multimillion-dollar project that he was doing for
guilty former campaign chair paul manafort. indictments charging craig with basically concealing information about their work on this report about something that happen in ukraine and then lying about it. making false statements on more than one occasion including mueller in october 2017, during, as you'll see here, craig allegedly repeating false and misleading statements he made to their foreign hobbying unit. one of the alleged crimes is lying to mueller's office while it was open. this is the first time since the probe has ended since we've seen a now indictment with a crime that was committed during the special counsel's ongoing investigation. now, mr. craig's attorneys who were expecting this indictment as recently as last night put out this statement. they say he is not guilty of any charge. these charges may be first against a high profile democrat in the mueller probe spinoff but it is also the haste in a series of events that what mueller found is still active in very real ways.
legally and obviously substantively. the southern district of new york has been going strong where the links to the national "enquirer" have been put under a motorcycle row scope. accused among other things, of extortion. now i can tell you in addition to everything else, that company is putting up the tabloid for sale. and the ceo and the long time friend of trump's, david pecker, has been cooperating. saying bezos will meet with prurts who may be interested in bezos's accusations. this is happening as early as this week. as for the politics, we have experts with reaction to all of this including this charge against greg craig, saying it is another sign that bob mueller's probe, while it was active and now as it has farmed out what it found, doesn't care about parties. so donald trump can talk about a coup or a witch hunt or angry democrats.
the truth according to these experts and what we're seeing in these filings, they're following the facts wherever they lead. i am joined by miley wily as well as the art of the deal, tony schwartz. where working isn't working. and has insights into how donald trump will be viewing a lot of these developments right now. what do you make of this indictment? >> if you get into the bed the devil, you might get burned. >> is guilty paul manafort the devil? >> paul manafort and yanukovych. we're talking about a law firm, that at least as the indictment reads, was engaged in helping the pr prospects of government that paul manafort was willing to help try to reform their reputation in secret without telling the american people, hey, here i am representing this government. >> and these laws to your point. all they say is, if you are
working for a foreign government, tell country and then you can go on and do it. this was millions of dollars, coming from the offshore bank accounts that paul manafort was running for these folks who are all putin allies. >> that's right. and one of the things that was happening, what gregory craig was hired to do, was run a review of an investigation that the yanukovych ministry of justice had brought against his political opponent and some of the exchanges in the indictment about how the report would play out in public. in other words, it appears to be public relations. and remember, that at the time this happen, the human rights community was up in arms about the report. hillary clinton as secretary of state was saying, this doesn't make sense. this is a bad prosecution. there are a lot of questions here that make it clear that
this is a law firm that the person who worked on this report pled guilty to lying about what they were doing with the report. and the firm itself paid a fine and said we should have registered as an agent for foreign government. so that's what's going on. >> it is a significant development in trump's world as he continues to try to say, well, mueller is done. i was exonerated. no one needs on worry about the report. given your knowledge of him, take a look at the president on all of this just yesterday. >> this was an attempted coup. this was an attempt to take down a president. and we beat them. we beat them. >> well, if i say it's true, if you say it, it's false. that's trump. where it's true or false, he's going to take position including
when it is completely representative of his own worst behaviors, he will go, he will attack people for those same behaviors and he's going to constantly declare victory in the face of defeat. you know, you saw him back away with assange today from having talked about how wonderful wikileaks was 160 times in the last 10, 15 days of the campaign, today he doesn't remember who julian assange is. you know, when he talks about an attempted coup, i think that's where he's had. he's in a white house in which he is completely unbounded. nobody there to put any kind of hand in his face around what he does. and i think his goal is to bring down the truth, lower the bar on what we think is true or false, so low that we cease to notice the difference. >> this also comes at a time
when america continues to be tested about what these principals mean. what does it mean where we'll see what mueller found or not? what does it mean where the congress will do oversight or not, what does it mean to be where the president may have his approach to law and order? what does it mean for everyone else? you've talked about leadership. i want to read to you a democratic congressman responding to this, who says with regard to obama's white house counsel being now indicted. quote, no one is above the law. not greg craig, this obama full, not michael flynn, no one. lying to federal investigators is a big deal and strikes at the core of our ability to investigate crimes. how important do you think it is for our, if i can be so bold, civic and political culter to process this information on a nonpartisan basis? >> well, it is the self-evidence that it would make every sense to recognize the '43 and deceit
have no ideological bounds. it goes right across, they can overcome anything. and trump has created a world where being a grifter is an acceptable, even an honorable profession those days. so the risk, and you could talk about this more than i can. the risk to the law when you have someone assaulting it from every side every day, i don't think it's ever been as high as it is. and then you watch william barr being willing to play, clearly take partisan perspective during this period. it is scary. it's scary. this is what trump does to people. he brings them down to his level. >> it would be nice to have a president who has read the constitution. that's my view. >> we don't even have a president who has read babe
ruth's story, much less the constitution. >> one of the things that has become clear, when donald trump says this whole point about witch hunt or any of the tropes that he uses to confuse us about v values, too many people are cynical about whether anyone tells the truthful and i think that serves the sound bites of donald trump. that's why the rule of law and its neutral application is so important. because part of what it says, our institutions of government are about protecting the rules, the boundaries, and if there is one good thing to come out of this. it is that the statute that is about transparency and about making cheer to the american people what they're hearing and where it's coming from is being enforced. it has a very long history on the books and not being enforced. >> to put it really all together, you're talking about the corrosive elements of what
happens if someone is seen as succeeding and dpegetting away h it, and far broader than the boundaries when you're talking about gristing. and someone like mueller saying, no, the rules and the facts matter and i'll do the job as honorably as possible. this is such a big story. my special thanks to maya wily and tony schwartz for leading off the coverage. we have a big show. what would have been the top story no matter what, any other day of the week, julian assange endied. you're watching footage of him being removed from the embassy in london. donald trump also withdrawing everything he seemed to ever claim about wikileaks. >> wikileaks, boy, wikileaks. >> i know nothing about wikileaks. it is not my thing. >> and later, liberals cheering speaker pelosi's moves against
the trump agenda. if that wasn't enough, governor jay inslee talking about climate change. i'm ari melber. you're watching "the beat." re we dr. scholl's kiosk. it recommends our best custom fit orthotic to relieve foot, knee, or lower back pain. so you can move more. dr. scholl's. born to move. so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. numbers are great. and seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. that's what i call a body of proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.
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don't get mad. all of you. how you live, what you love. that's what inspired us to create america's most advanced internet. internet that puts you in charge. that protects what's important. it handles everything, and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. here weflg i am joined lye by presidential candidate and state governor jay inslee. >> thank you.
>> let's get right to it. you have been advocating climate change as important to resolve for the united states of manager, and really crucially your candidacy. let me show you this. this is people's priorities, according to the polling. you're not top five, you're not top ten. you're 17. do you have to move that number up in voters' minds? >> actually not. if you look at the poll, the top things on there. i think number one was the economy. number two was health care. number four is terrorism. so those are things that are associated and exacerbated by climate change. our only task is to get people to think about it in those terms. an economic issue, i'll going to iowa tomorrow to look at the places where we've had billions
of dollars of losses to our economy. i've seen whole towns burned down in paradise, california. the expense and damage being done to our economy by climate change is something increasing dramatically. >> so what do you say to voters, when they hear green climate change candidacy, they think sacrificing economic prosperity? >> no, what they can think and should think is the enormous growth in job creation. when i talk to communities, i talk about the wind turbines in iowa. trump says they cause cancer. they don't cause cancer. they cause jobs. i argued with meghan mccain on the view about this. >> i don't think you knew this but this is something we're prepared to get into. let's talk with president trump on that very issue. >> if you have a windmill near your house, chagss. your house just went down 75% in
value. they stay noise causes cancer. you tell me one. okay? >> listen, i don't agree with senator grassley a lot but he called that comment idiotic. you're seeing them build a whole new industry. we created a $6 billion industry, the wind industry in our state, in part because we documented a renewable portfolio standard that i helped folks pass at the ballot box. we understand job creation. people criticize saying we'll take away planes and trains and cars. >> or ice cream. >> at the very moment i was debating that, we have a general motors, shiny new blue spiffy card made by american workers in michigan. that's a vision of a destiny of america, to be the real test bed and building, manufacturing center for the world to build these products. we're doing biofuels, batteries
like crazy in nevada. we're making, we're spinning carbon fiber, a small community, as you know, east of washington. and the interesting things about this, this economic development vision is good for smaller towns, rural areas, rather than just urban ones. these jobs are not just in seat. they're in washington in the town of 350. >> you mentioned, let me get out health care. i'm old enough to remember when a lot of people thought of you as a progressive democrat within the party. when we put up a list of candidates who say they're for all, it is a lot of the candidates who have amassed a lot of support. are you to the right of them? are you not for medicare for all? >> i think i'm in the right place. to follow what we've done in washington state. we may be, and i hope to be
shortly, the very first state to have a public option that is available through a public system. i'm proud of the progress we've made. >> and i'll press you on that. that was basically, i think, similar to where a lot of the obama supporters wanted to go of but medicare is bigger, more robust, more expensive program. walk us through that. >> what i'm for is for medicare who want it. we know we need universal care. we know we need everyone to have access to health care. and i believe the successful way to get there in the next administration is to provide access to medicare. that means allowing people to go into the medicare system to a volitional basis, to reduce the age where you in a sense automatically you're on medicare. and i believe that would be the way to advance the system. i think you are going to have a lot of people who will want to keep the health care that they
have. and we have millions of people who are satisfied with their herring right now. i believe, look, i'm a governor. >> your competitor was here. he talked about criminal justice. you vote for the 1994 crime bill. would you vote for that same bill today? what do we need to do? particularly racial inequities. >> if i knew that it has resulted in racial disparities, that's why i've been helping to reform our criminal justice system. we knew the death penalty has been racially disparity. we know the drug wars have been part of the racial disparity that we've suffered. so we've legalized marijuana and i'm the first governor to offer pardons to thousands of people
who have had marijuana convictions to help them get jobs so this is not a problem. >> you can get marijuana just about anywhere in washington state. let me ask you, if you'll may lightning round with us. other candidates have. let's start with, one word ideally, one sentence if you need it. when you go into a washington state marijuana dispensary, you feel how? >> like i'm a governor of a very progressive, effective state. >> your favorite -- >> we have the best marijuana in america. no question. at least i've been told. >> and you trust your constituents. >> do i. being very objective on this issue. >> favorite starbucks drink. >> the howard schultz should not run for president latte. >> favorite music, band or artist from washington state or seattle. >> well, you have to go with jimmy and purple haze. this is the 50th reunion of woodstock and that is still vibrating in my mind of him
paying the star spangled banner in woodstock. >> i was lucky enough to go to garfield high school. >> this is why you're so talented. >> if 6 were 9 -- >> my dad taught there. he's a garfield biology teacher. >> couple word or sentence. bernie sanders. >> bernie in his day was a get basketball player. and i admire him for that. >> donald trump. >> a blip in history and we'll make sure that happens. >> iowa. where i'm going tomorrow to look at the flood damage. and i will be in the state when mike pence is there. i will be arguing that we need to defeat climate change so these floods do not overwhelm us. he will be there doing nothing. i don't know how the man sheems at night doing nothing about climate change. >> bob mueller. >> doing great work. >> bill barr. >> that remains to be seen but i'm disturbed and worried that
the approach that he's taking, that it will be more partisan than justice. >> former obama counsel greg craig indicted today out of the mueller probe. >> i don't know about the situation. you'll have to ask somebody else. >> and lastly, it is national pet day. would you bring a pet to the white house if you won? >> i would bring everybody's pet to the white house in spirit. they will all be in the white house when i'm president of the united states. >> are you a dog or a cat person or no pets? >> we don't have pets right now because i can't have a dog. >> who would walk the dog? >> no. not the problem. it is the strangest thing. in my lease, at the official residence, it says no pets. >> you're serious. >> so i have to watch them on television. i just watch cat videos. >> maybe you're paying attention that you follow rules even when you're in charge. you're following no pet rule. i appreciate you talking policy with us and some of the fun stuff. i hope you come back on "the beat." >> up ahead, we have a lot more
including speaker pelosi saying how she feels democrats have to take on bill barr. and the u.s. government indicted julian assange. a very important story when we come back in 30 seconds. back i. . now we turn to a major developing story with implications for politics, journalism and sbainternational affairs. this is huge no matter how you feel about the man at the center, julian assange, arrested
and handcuffed this morning, led out in handcuffs this morning. assange is controversial for many reasons, from the way wikileaks operates to some of the allies it has earned, leakers to indicted putin operatives to candidate trump to indict former trump adviser roger stone, to other serious allegations like sexual misconduct in sweden. so there are all sorts of valid reasons to critique assange and wheeks. the news isn't about criticism or his role in american politics. the news is the u.s. government indicting a publisher of information on a single charge that does not involve him actually stealing information of rather a charge about this publisher communicating with the person who stole information and then allegedly trying to help the person in a plan that did not allegedly steal information. now i just said that to you very carefully, which i try to do
here. if that description sounds a little broad or vague, or a little tenuous, that's because the new charge from the trump justice department does sound that way. and this means if assange did go farther than most journal i haves would, if the jump administration can set this for endieting on a situation where the publisher did not allegedly steal anything themselves, mostly talked to the people who did, that may be used against other publishers who maybe did less. that's how precedents work. historically when government wants to go against journalists, they don't start with the most popular. they start with the easiest to make an example of. this isn't about 2016 or anything recent. it is a single charge of conspiracy to hack in 2010. it's not a charge of hacking because prosecutors aren't alleging that the hack
succeeded. but this conduct happened in 2010. why wasn't it charged then? you may know prosecutors have probed wikileaks for quite some time. during obama administration, prosecutors convicted chelsea manning for stealing hundreds of thousands of documents from the u.s. government which exposed all sorts of information from the u.s. and other countries. those were considered very news worthy leaks. chug this net work, and they sparked some major impacts on global affairs. >> 91,000 documents have been released by the whistle blower website, wikileaks.org, and they have more. >> some analysts comparing them to the pentagon papers. >> tonight after violent protests that have lasted for weeks, the tunisian government has fallen. the president has fled and some are calling this the first wikileaks revolution. >> the first wikileaks revolution. impactful journalism is not a
defense to other alleged crimes but it was leaks like that which won wikileaks the organization a range of journalistic awards. the obama administration never indicted wikileaks despite the opposition to how it ran and it had similar conduct regarding this 2010 issue. they indicted chelsea manning and they reviewed a case against assange and could nncluded it wt warranted. president obama ultimately commuted her sentence, saying she took responsibility for what was criminal leaking and she shouldn't spend too much time in jail. >> with respect to chelsea manning, i looked to the marches of this, the particulars of this case. i looked at all the circumstances, that commuting her sentence was entirely appropriate. she took responsibility for her crime.
that the sentence she received was very disproportionate relative to what other leakers had received. >> why am i telling you all this right now? because there's a lot of context. a lot for the trump doj going forward here on these actions from nine years ago because the obama doj did not deep chargeable. there could be other counts based on other secret evidence we don't have and we know bob mueller wanted a lot more from assange, as do the feds. the indictment unsealed today doesn't show assange actually staying anything, or coordinating with foreign spies, or doing espionage. it is a single down for doing something that did not actually happen which administration it aggressive and potentially chilling document for journal i haves in the u.s. or abroad. it shows this leaker telling asampg after this upload.
and then pushing for more leaks saying curious eyes never run dry. it alleged he crossed the line that they're not supposed to cross, alleging potentially stealing itself to try to crack a password. it sounds bad. it runs two and a half pages. the entire thing, six pages. it would be easy to view it through u.s. government lens. if you hear government officials from many parties, that's what you'll hear. assange took on the u.s. government. they have every right. you can view it from the mystery lens saying, man, he upended the 2016 election. what does he know about
collusion and the things even the mueller report did not answer. let's get him here. but there is also a nonpartisan lens. what check exists, charging and extraditing a publisher, not for staying and espionage but for one count of whether he stole a source. that lends to, i discussed this last month with eric holder, 2 a time period when assange had been indicted under seal but that information was not public should a publisher be open to charges? >> if you are acting in a pure journalistic sense, no. i deplore leaks. members of the press received those leaks and then write stories about them.
i don't view that person as, that organization, as a pure, that person is a pure journalist or the organization is a journalistic organization. with all matters have government, part of the challenge isn't the rules in the abstract. think about this. who do you trust applying those rules? do you trust your government reflexively? are you skeptical of government power because it is awesome power to arrest, to investigate, to jail? to execute? it is a power that can end up in just about anyone's hands. >> i'm talking about the fake news media. they are an enemy of the people. the fake news, enemy of the poem. >> i'm joined by my guest, he
interviewed assange. the u.s. attorney, founding of the institute for cyber law policy and security, and the director of whistleblower and source pro affection expose facts and a former justice department ethics attorney. really appreciate each of you. does anything concern but the theory of the case in this indictment? >> this is very concerning. under obama, there was basically a war on whistle blowers. and i always said that this could be a back door to a war on journalists. that's what we're seeing. i think the arrest of assange puts all journal i haves and publishers at risk of prosecution under the computer fraud abuse act which is a tool of choice for today, prior it had been the espionage act. but the computer fraud abuse act
is just as much an overbroad law that can be incredibly punitive and has been used against a number of the whistle blowers that you think of like chelsea manning and tom drake. there were charges that the government tried to bring in. those cases as well. and publishing classified information is not a crime. you can read the newspaper every single day. and read leaks of classified information. so i think we need to think long and hard about criminalizing, do we want to criminalize msnbc or ari melber? for talking about this stuff? i mean, we're talking about a really broad, bad precedent that could be set here. >> your view as a prosecutor? >> i disagree. first of all, if you regard this as a continuation of the trump assault against the media, i
would agree with you, the warnings that all would apply. we're not talking about a publisher here. we're talking about someone who was conspiring with a leaker. a person who has already given many classified information, lots of classified information. he was working with him to get additional information. so i think the facts are important in how we define what happened here is very important. assange is a shiny object in three spheres. in the banning case, in the 2016 election, and generally in our campaign to apply law to digital space. i think this is a good development. i think this is an important step in making sure that we are dealing with the borderless world of cyber crime. i think if you look at the mueller indictment of july, it
is very clear that wikileaks is a key component in understanding, and i reject the word collusion. that is not the word. it is conspiracy. the gru through fancy bear was giving information to wikileaks, and that was alleged there. the question of how it got into our space, and whether there were americans participating in that conspiracy is still unanswered. >> right. the charges are not about 2016. it is about 2010. and there has been big a evolution in how people view mr. assange. we want to play, remember, folks, donald trump used to cheer him today, reversed himself. >> one of the major reasons for government secrecy is to protect
the government from its own population. we should pay attention to the leaks. >> well, first of all, i think that wikileaks has done such an important job to get truth out. sandy hope you get free one day. boy, wikileaks. >> i know nothing about wikileaks. it's not my thing. >> i think the important thing is that 99% of what he does in his career is combative, adversarial, highly controversial journalism. and giving them information. but the cardinal sin, the one thing that has allowed the justice department to label as a healthcare rather than a journalist, is this one password that he allegedly offered to
crack eight years ago. as far as we know, failed to crack. it shows the tiny, the thin line between being a modern journalist and being a hacker. we've seen others stumble across this. i would say it is quite small violations of this overbroad law. >> would you be concerned? >> the digital part can be very complicated. would you be concerned if you use the watergate analogy, at certain points, if bob woodward is moving the flower pot and then how to get the information and he's saying please give me more classified information. then he's saying, may be you want to talk to the fbi. at what point do you worry about whether it is on or offline that the journalist under this prism is now being accused of conspireing, because they sought information.
journalists routinely seek information that would be illegal to reveal. >> i think that's what is disturbing to me. most of the indictment is about assange asking for more information. absolutely something that journalists do with their sources, even when they're asking for classified information. something that the leak of which is an illegal act. that's what they do and have done for generations. that's what assange accused of doing. in one case, eight years ago, it shows the kind of grudge that the darrel of justice can hold against alleged hackers. and sometimes, somebody who might be a journalist. and it is very difficult to draw the distinction. >> your response?
>> that's what we were talking about, it was being leaked by a security analyst in the government. that's what we're talking about. now, i think that we have to step back and try and decide where we want to go. we are still building as we fly. we are applying digital space in real-time. and we have pre digital norms that guide us. just because you walk into a grocery store and something is apparent does not mean you can take it. >> for your -- >> for your analysis -- >> let's leave digital aside. the pentagon papers was one of the old pre digital lines which was, yes, you can't leak the pentagon information. that is illegal. when the "times" wanted to publish it and the nixon administration took them to court, they won that case. my question for you is, what is the littling principle if you go after publishers now?
>> this is why we have the supreme court. these clashes are going to occur. whether you are pushing the frontier of what the law is, the right privilege and responsibility of the journalist. whether you're protesting or a journalist pushing the boundary, you may decide to violate the law because it is more important than the kafrs pentagon papers which exposed the lie about vietnam. we have toer to violent. we cannot go so far as to say that forward movements in a war theater can be routinely leaked. there are some things that need to remain classified and secret. >> yeah. again. i'll give you the last word. manning went to jail. a lot of other leakers to have gone jail. what about the notion that a conspiracy charge here by the administration, could it be used in your view against other american publishers? >> absolutely. i think this puts any foreign
publisher at risk for violating u.s. secrecy rules. and you have to wonder about u.s. countries like china and iraq and north korea. and look. i agree certain things should be kept secret. undercover, nuke design information. that kind of thing. but hikes in the public interest that reveal criminality, that reveal war crimes, as in the case of what wikileaks revealed in the collateral murder video. gunning down people as if you're playing call of duty. gunning down innocent civilians. that's not about forward operating base movements. >> we gave ample time to this because it is so perspectives. my thanks to each of you.
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i'm very concerned about the statements made by the attorney general barr. he is not the attorney general of donald trump will he is the attorney general of the united states. >> speaker pelosi taking on william barr in very direct terms. center for american progress joins me. what do you think speaker pelosi is up to? >> she hit the nail on the head. barr went out there and essentially did trump's bidding. pelosi is calling that out head on. >> yeah. at times it seemed like attorney general barr was doing the congressional hearing version of a donald trump tweet threat.
you're not always looking for retweets. >> especially with you're the nation's top law enforcement officer. this is an attorney general who behaved that way and it is really disdespicable. i commend speaker pelosi for sticking to her fwuns and calling to release the full report to congress because they need to know what was included. >> when we see speaker pelosi, she is punching back in a big way. she is the most powerful democrat. i'm curious what you think we put together, take a look. >> let me finish. >> mr. president, please don't character characterize this as the leader of the house democrats who just won a big victory. >> whether or not you're a supporter of president trump or not, whatever you feel, there is no good reason not to make the
report public. >> do you trust that we will see the full report? >> a matter of time. we will see it. i don't trust barr. i trust mueller. >> do you find when you look at that side by side, do you find her to be bolder and more effective or different styles? >> very different styles. schumer is a new yorker. pelosi doesn't mince words. she never has. she has a very direct and determined approach. >> i feel like the takeaway is she's not having it. >> at all of the i feel like that comes as a woman maybe. we draw the line and she has clearly drawn the line. >> interesting with barr, he's at the center of all of this. and she's been clearer than almost anyone earlier about putting the heat on him. obviously she has the strategy for that. we've had a lot of stuff in the show tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> up ahead, the infamous cain
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