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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  April 12, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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trail. that will be on your local nbc station. and don't miss richard engel with stove banning. why he is now going after pope francis. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> are you expecting a big "newsweek" next week? >> i know you are. i am. the question is is it monday or tuesday and how redacted will you feel? >> how redacted indeed. >> i hope you have a redactful weekend. >> a redactful weekend to you as well. we'll see what that really means. monday or tuesday or whenever. we have a big friday night show here. rod rosenstein out defending his boss, attorney general bill barr, and interestingly, previewing parts of the mueller report which as we just discussed we are expecting next week. and betsy devos under fire for using kids as props while still trying to slash $200 million
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worth of programs for literacy. we begin with the power grab. first new reports that trump wanted to politicize border policy with an idea to try to bus undocumented immigrants into what are called sanctuary cities and are typically more politically liberal. officials in trump's own administration saying this idea was, quote, so illegal, and thus it was ultimately dropped. but donald trump was out threatening his opponents with this very policy today. >> we'll bring them to sanctuary city areas and let that particular area take care of it. california is always saying, we want more people. and they want more people in their sampg twaer cities. we'll give them more people. we can give them a lot. an unlimited supply. let's see if they're so happy. they say we have open arms. open arms. let's see if they have open arms. >> this move to pressure authorities into releasing
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detainees is seen as quite blatant and potentially unlawful way to use the notion of distributing migrants, or border policy, to punish your political opponents. that doesn't mean everybody agrees it is punishment but it was clearly targeted that way, including speaker pelosi. they concede the purpose saying it was to, quote, send a message to democrats. it is obviously tonight latest instance of this president clashing with the law and his constitutional obligations. because in a similar vein, donald trump telling the person who is expected to become the acting dhs secretary, as he is cleaning house, that he needs to close the border and that he would pardon him if he were ever jailed for violating the laws and rules. as we've that before, and it is important to keep in mind. pardons are for criminals so that's quite a thing to say to someone who has not even officially taken up the post yet. all of this comes in a wider
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perspective that we have kept an eye on. donald trump's own attorney general under fire for his testimony under oath before congress. he was proclaiming to law schools that first of all, he didn't think this was an obstruction case to be found from the mueller report before it was even released and saying then in very provocative language, when he referred to the lawful surveillance and oversight that occurred in 2016, well, the attorney general is now in a trump tweet style calling it, quote, spying. he didn't really see any evidence for that. bloomberg is saying that barr has basically become trump's roy cohn. for not standing up to trump, shielding him from the rule of law and falling down in his obligations as attorney general. this blood bath at the department of homeland security is a very real issue. on monday, donald trump was purnging the agency's senior management. that's how it started. there are reactions to the whole range of elements.
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some called it abuse of power with donald trump trying to with thattize the federal government for what he calls political purposes. so this is the type of thing that in the nixon era we heard about behind closed doors and it would hike latleak later. in the trump era, it is from the top. >> this is an attempted coup. an attempted takedown of a president. >> we have bad laws. we're fighting the bad laws. we have the worst laws of any country anywhere in the world. >> we know what one co-equal branch of congress thinks about all this. at least on the democratic side. to be clear, some republican pushback recently. what about the judges? they generally have to rule and wait on individual cases. but judges can also speak in broad terms about what they're seeing, about their own constitutional role. i want to show you something if you haven't seen it. this was a speech out yesterday where a judge was accepting a
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pretty prestigious award. the second african-american ever pointed as a federal judge in mississippi, going on to compare trump's criticism. courts to what we've seen historically with the kkk and segregationists. >> now we are eyewitnesses to the third great assault on our judiciary. it is dangerous, political, you can their klan's lawyers across the south. when the executive branch calls our courts in their words, stupid, horrible, ridiculous, a federal judge was called very biased and unfair because he is of mexican heritage. i did not know if i was in 1967 or 2017. we must do more to defend our bench. >> i'm joined now by matt miller who served under the obama
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administration. from the lbj school in texas, christina, i wonder what you think of a federal judge, speaking carefully, you'll notice it was not a political style disagreement with the president. but an observation that i want to quote carefully. i did not know if it was 1967 or 2017. we must do more to defend our bench. >> right. i've always. , the one thing that keeps me up is the u.s. census. i've add another thing, the courts. we know in the constitution, the three branches of government should be eek wiqual lateral. we know that the politicalization from the president and his administration on to the courts at all levels is rae dangerous and it will have really longstanding
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effects. the rate at which he's appointing judges who have very right leaning, some might say nationalist or supremacist leaning, and have been very open and articulate about how they fee about the way the future of the nation should go. a very specific 1967-esque vein is very worrisome to not just people like me but to judges who care about upholding the constitution on the bench. that's what we were hearing. this is their occupation. they recognize, depending on what level they're in. so many cases get bumped up to them based on how justices rule on whatever it is. civil or criminal cases. when we have trump and his administration essentially stacking the courts with hyper conservative justice who's worship the president and not the u.s. constitution, i think that is the most dangerous and longstanding. if we can survive a trump presidency and our democracy can still stand, i think the
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longstanding effects of the judiciary branch based on the executive branch will weaken our democracy for, unfortunately, i'm afraid decades to come. >> how do you view that concern in the context with the dhs this week? we're seeing the president running rough shod on a whole host of institutions. he is not getting his way in congress. the senate is helping him out a little special when i the majority leader allowing him to get judges confirmed in a quicker time period. what we're seeing is he's trying to stack courts. now when it comes to the bureaucracy, the rules, the mundane procedures that have been placed in our bureaucratic institutions, he says i don't like that you're not doing what i want you to do so i'm going to fire you. >> you have nielsen, grady, aiello, the secret service, if you say i can't carry out an
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unlawful order, that's pretty central, the president danging a pardon. i've never heard of anything like that. >> so every institution. he keeps getting blocked so he'll just go down the line until he gets what he wants. now he's basically going to do whatever he wants. no matter what. and he is going to take migrants and ship them across the country. that's what he wants. or rather, that's what stephen miller wants. so it is a system wide concern. underscoring my fellow political scientists' concern about the judiciary, it is the wider concern. if he can't have his way with an institution, he will find a way to circumstance up convenient it. >> i think we're at a very dangerous time right now. the trump presidency may be more dangerous in the last two years. and i think there are two things to put us there. one is the surge in immigration at the border is undermining the very rationale for trump and
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what he ran on. he would stop immigration and he hasn't been able to do it. i think you combine that with the end of the mueller investigation. so far trump thinking he can do all that did he to enter fear with the justice department. i think he feels a little unleashed. so he is sbookd a corner on his most important policy issue. he feels unleashed. that he is unconstrained. so you have a president seeing just how much he can get away with and doing it at a time where he really does feel like he can act free of consequences. i think those together put us in a very important way. >> to go further, at a nonpartisan level which can be difficult given how political it is, in a nonpartisan level, what
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each of you are alluding to is that america has required the notion that the law is a buffer. so even very partisan presidents have been told by their own aides, yes, i agree. we're partisan buddies. we want to do these things. but obviously, sir, the law won't let us do that. let's go back to the drawing board. the lack of experience really changes whether that buffer works at all. take a listen to rex tillerson. a right wing oil executive. not disagreeing on substance but on that exchange. >> when the president says, here's what i want to do. well, mr. president, i understand what you want to do. it violates law, it violates treaty. he got really frustrated. >> what he is doing with dhs
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reminds me of the four months before mueller was appointed. he was putting pressure on the fbi and on jeff sessions. that stopped him somewhat. he continued to attack him publicly. a lot of his private pressure stop. at dhs, he's pushing for illegal things. the director was willing to do a lot for donald trump. when kirstjen nielsen said, the one thing i can't do is break the law. he fired her. now he's saying, it's okay if you break the law. if you do it, i'll paurd. even the constraint where someone says i can't break the law. he's trying to find a way around that. it is the most lawless thing you can imagine for a president. i do feel if there are not any consequences, he will keep pushing and pushing and pushing. >> how do you put that in the
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context of this is somewhat consistent? about being sloppy and disciplined and making it up. what we're talking about here, marchly on the issue of immigration, goes ultraway back to sheriff arpaio. >> right. a very key piece here is the bully pulpit that he uses. if he's breaking these rules, flaunlting tradition and rules. what he's doing, he keeps up the twitter feed and he keeps throwing red meat to the base. he has this core base of folks who actually like what he's doing. remember, he came to drain the swamp. he's also using it as rhetoric to bolster him going into re-election. so another area that we can't dismiss is the public at large. the 35 to 39% that is going to be with him no matter what. and they like his boldness. they like that he's authentic.
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they like that he shoots from the hip. he's leveraging that even to the detriment of our democracy. >> and he may shoot from the hip. the question is, who is he shooting at? is it illegal? take a listen to an exchange here with senator kory book order. >> he told the commissioner of customs and border protection, if he were sent to jail, as a result of blocking those migrants and contravention to u.s. law, that he would pardon him. your reaction to that both as an attorney and a member of the judiciary committee. just as an american. >> first of all, that should shake every american, that you have a president who would tell people to break the law. that he will pardon you. we're sitting in newark where kids are going to prison for doing things that two of the last three presidents admitted to doing and nobody is pardoning
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them. >> i agree with my fellow political scientists fundamentally. i think what is so dangerous is that the base and members of this administration and far too many members of the republican party are fine with letting donald trump say, i'm going to break the law and we'll see what we do with it. we know that he's been a failure in the sense that the main promise was that he would build a wall. anyone who has looked at a map knows it is geographically impossible. so the new solution is i'll go into one of the 500 sanctuaries. unfortunately, there are far too many americans who look at these families at the border and they don't see human beings. has the consistent message that the president is giving his base and when he talks on twitter and television. calling people animals and undeserving, saying the doors are closed even though he is the child of an immigrant. two of his three wives are
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immigrants. even though four of his five children are children of an immigrant. when you ask about the fals at the border, he says they shouldn't have come. there's a lack of humanity. >> the statement that you just said by way of quoting, and we've heard it here. it is not family values. there are all sorts of things and you can note that they're wrong. the united states has never used child abuse even in our own relatively this draconian system as the punishment. the notion that you'll go ahead and say, i mean lawfully. sanctioned policy. >> wave long history of
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separating children from will families. this is unfortunately a long pattern of what american presidents have done to people of color. but we have not done it in the 21 century. not in the 20th century. so one would hope and pray that we've evolved as a nation. we know we have a very dark past. so if we try uphold the values of the founding fathers and what they wrote down on paper and ensure the reality of our existence, one would hope that donald trump would see that. he doesn't. he doesn't understand his role as the executive of the nation. >> my thanks to each of you on this very important topic. coming up, a lot more news. mueller's past boss and supervisor now previewing what the new boss will release. and inside, to push donald trump off the ballot if he doesn't release his taxes.
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later, you'll reveal how his education secretary is accused of using children as props. and hip hop producer dj clark. you're watching "the beat." ark. you're watching "the beat. can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. ready to treat differently with a pill?
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donald trump is running for re-election, as you know. but that doesn't mean he will automatically be on the ballot in 2020. because news coming out of the states that could be nationally important is illinois pushing legislation that will keep trump totally off the ballot if he keeps hiding his tax returns. this requires candidates to release five years of tax returns to run on the blalt. a rebuttal to trump's claim that no one out there claims about his taxes. >> that was an issue already litigated during the election. voters knew the president could have given his tax returns, they knew he didn't and they elected him any away. >> i got elected last time with the same intensity which was not 57. the people don't care. >> the people don't care. as we're seeing in many states around the country, 18 of them have introduced these bills where they apparently do care. washington state passed its own version of this bill in the state senate. it heads to the house and the governor told us he'll pass it, sign it if it gets there.
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when you look at electoral college votes, five went for trump in 2016. the political math is 54 electoral college votes. we're talking about something significant. now these moves aren't just coming from progressives in the states, either. take a look at congress. you have democrats that you aring radical reforms some of the top candidates want to end it entirely. senate democrats want to reduce the threshold for passing legislation. all of it adding up to a big debate about bold ideas. good evening. >> good evening. >> clarence, what do you think about what it means that there are these ideas afoot? particularly in the states? is it a problem if it looks like trying to change the rule in the middle of the game? >> well, however it might look, we can expect a core fight. pru
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president trump has said he likes court fights. we can see how often he's used the term, constitutional crisis. they've become almost routine. there will be a big question about that. but as we've heard so many times, the states run elections. not the federal government. so whatever the states decide has tremendous weight that goes pack to the birth of the country. so i think the president will have a heck of a challenge trying to overcome that resi resistan resistance. >> i think it is curious as to why the president hasn't released his tax returns. he claims the reason is because he's under audit but we don't have any proof of that. as we head into 2020 and all the questions around his finances, which are currently being investigated, require transparency. i think that states are doing the reasonable thing in terms of making it cheer, if you are going to run for the highest office, you don't have any ties to a foreign government, for example, that would change your
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public policy making as a result. >> i think that sounds logical. it makes sense. what if in a different cycle, you work for hillary clinton, someone says we want to see all her emails, including the personal ones she segregated in the famous, or infamous email review. and texas won't allow her on the ballot until she releases all the moise. what would you say? >> i think there is a distinction between personal emails, which are protect bypass word, and your tax returns. tax returns, there is precedent for presidential candidates releasing them. there is not press denial for a president to release personal email. >> the analogy is not the same. the password is one thing. the taxes are protected under criminal law. what i'm getting at is, i think there may be good rebuttals. are democrats opening it up for looking like they're doing a shektive effort to kick him off
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the ballot. if not, are they owning the narrative politically? >> i think that there is also the same pressure put on democrats who are running for president. so we're also putting that requirement on to our own. certainly you want it to be voluntarily. as a public servant, you want to be trans parent. so from a democratic perspective, we're requiring democrats to do this as well of the it is not just trying to get trump off the ballot. >> right of it is not as narrow. take a look at all the different democratic candidates who want to scrap the electoral college. as a long time student of politics, have you ever seen that in a democratic primary race? and what does it tell you? >> not specifically this. but what i have seen is, after each election, the losing party
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seems to have an appetite for changing the way the elections are run. gerrymandering or electoral college votes, and then what happens inevitably, the next election or the next one, whatever rule changes they made has back fired. it is very hard to build in some kind of advantage for yourself ahead of time. but obviously, the system is lop-sided right now. at the same time, the electoral college was designed to protect the smaller states, protect their rights. so whatever change happens has to try to evening balancize matters. and it is very hard to do that in a way that will stick around for very long. >> you make such an interesting point, depending on where the change comes, it not confined to one party. with all the party issues in 68 that led to relying more on the iowa caucus.
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because of the states that controlled it change laws, it created them for both sides. >> it is a good question. i haven't seen our politics as polarized. you look at new york and california. nobody expects them to go republican very soon any more than mississippi and alabama will go democrat. so that can make a big difference there. and so far as long lasting effects, a change in the electoral college structure. folks have been really mad over the electoral college since 2000 with the whole florida chad debacle and all that. >> people are hopping mad, someone can win 3 million more votes and not win. you travel abroad.
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it is hard to even explain to people. >> what i think democrats are doing is important. it is not necessary reply there's a realistic shot. there's legislation out there. if political system makes it more fair so each individual system has more of a say. what they're doing is saying, the people in california don't have as much of a say into the outcome as people who live in iowa, for example. so is that fair? is that really representative of the entirety of the american electorate when a state like iowa, which is basically all white, is determining essentially who the nominees will be from both parties? then going to new hampshire, predominantly white. that is not what america is. so what democrats are talking about is structural changes. do if i know they're realistic in our lifetime? i don't know. but i think the conversation is
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important. not just filibuster reform. but also getting money out of politics. they're talking about a lot of systemic changes that activists have been talking about for a long time. >> you make a good point. you worked on the campaign. money and the calendar, you're talking about which states go when are the two biggest determinants. the question of who is around to fight a month later and what it will look like. when we come back, why is rod rosenstein hinting at what's in the mueller report? stay with us. with us until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously. whyou should be mad that airports are complicated... he's my emotional support snake. ...but you're not, because you have e*trade, whose tech isn't complicated. it helps you understand the risk and reward potential
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on an options trade. don't get mad. get e*trade. the justice department report says the mueller report is still on track to come out next week. rather than letting it speak for itself in this crucial time several days before it comes out, a trump appointee speaking out a little bit. mueller's former boss, rod rosenstein, he is defending his new boss, bill barr, for how mr. barr depicted some of the findings. he says that barr was being, quote, as forthcoming as he can. so this notion that he's trying to mislead people, i think, is just completely bizarre. rosenstein is one of the few people alive who has read the whole report. either he thinks barr perfectly summarized it or he's playing defense. and most people know that barr the take unusual step of nowing
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his own views that went beyond mueller before even providing mueller's report to congress. i would run out of room in the television frame to give you the hand motions to tell you how odd that is. but rosenstein making separate waves, in addition to that interview. he just offered his own preview of what might be in the report. telling a small group of people to remember the probe was focused on cyber crimes and russian election interference and implying it at a lunch which leaked to bloomberg. rosenstein is not just defending barr. he name checked him in a letter about the analysis that barr decided trump didn't obstruct justice by firing comey or taking any other related actions. of course, the conclusion is potentially conflicted at best, as he witness in the obstruction case. remember, he came to work for
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trump and wrote the memo providing the pretext to fire comey, which trump later admitted was a cover story. aka a lie. and at worst, they say rosenstein was pooled, knowingly or not, into contributing into an element of potential obstruction of justice. i'm joined now by john flannery and i need your help. just walking through a factual history was kind of a mouthful. my apologies when you get to all the layers of it. what is your view of these tantalizing morsels, and is there anything wrong? >> i sort of think of them as a nested russian doll. one supporting each other. you had bar saying i don't want to talk about the letter and then you have rosenstein go out and talk about it. and as you said, protecting himself. what it looks like is the justice department is so despoiled now that they've become a mit arm of the west
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wing. and they can't help themselves. the rhetoric in which you have barr testifying that he is concerned about spies and spying, then he says he has no evidence of it. and then he's talking about it before he has any investigation of it. i think it is a nichian slip, or a freudian slip. they're still concerned about them. they want to us overlook what flynn and jared did and manafort, all of them. all of which is close to or facilitating russia over us and our election. so the long and short of it, i think we continue to have obstruction and we're having it in a larger way. and the house is making a mistake not passing a resolution, not going forward with the subpoena. not asking a judge to release the material and waiting. you can't win an argument you don't make. we're not making that argument.
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we wring our hands and then we don't do what we should do when we believe what we're saying and we're calling out as wrong action. >> you can't win a legal argument you don't make. is that it? you miss 100% of the shots you you don't take? >> there is more than law of the it is in life. any time you leave in doubt, on you're silent, you seem to action acquiesce. is it striking to you that he seems to be an official who takes on some of the qualities of those around him? he was mueller's boss. so in theory, he could make all sorts of decisions. he steamed follow mueller's lead on how to deal with that and is more certain on when he did come
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out on the russian interference indictment. now with barr, he is on his way out. he can do whatever he wants. he is leaky and responding to the news cycles. he doesn't believe that. >> something has happened since barr is there. the guts that some people seem to have, the full and fair investigation has gone away. and it stopped at the waters of trump and his family and finances. and what will tell us more in the days and years ahead is what really happen. something happened. and more conversation with those special counsel who left office, those who off the record, on the record, have disputed the conclusions of barr and of rosenstein. and you're right. even the conversation they had before the release.
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there was a quote that it was not the president's intent. they believe that was clear and that's why they could introduce their own summation. rosenstein and barr. that there was no obstruction. that's not an innocence hop. given the flagment that they put in the four-page political letter. >> yeah. well put. and we always benefit from your insights. thank you for joining us on the beat. >> thank you. democrats are saying it is time to go deep and confront the details of donald trump's education secretary's plans. and they did it grilling her to her face saying she's been using kids as props while trying to cut the budget for key programs sxfr . programs frsx they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers.
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>> it did not go well. donald trump's education secretary forced this week to defend a budget proposal that apparently was hard to defend. house democrats were strayed up roasting. >> can you help explain to me why the budget you propose eliminates every single federal literacy program? >> continued federal funding to try to fix problems has not yielded the results that we all hoped for. those solutions are best done at the state and local level. >> one of the programs you cut, the learn program, helps those states and local districts develop literacy programs to solve this problem. >> this was a policy based exchange. and then they added that it is hypocritical for her to use children as props for
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photographs. and they show her reading to children, literacy related, while trying to slash $200 million for reading to children. it cuts afterschool activities including children who need explicit literacy help who live in impoverished communities as well as money for textbooks which you need to work on reading and school equipment swelts counseling and school safety efforts. all told, over $8 billion. a 12% cut. democrats also confronting her for resippeding obama-era guidance that would protect transgender students lt. >> did you know when you rolled back the guidance that the stress of harassment can lead to lower grades and depression for transgender students? did you know that when you roll back the guidance? >> i did know that. but i will say that ocr is committed to ensuring all students have access to education. >> let me ask you --
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>> i do know is a problematic way to answer that question. and take a look at this exchange. >> do you realize that it is your responsibility to educate every child in the united states? >> it's my responsibility -- >> it's a yes or no, madam secretary. >> it's my responsibility to -- >> is that a yes or a no? you're very good at evading. it is a really simple question. >> that part is not supposed to be the hard part. a week ago, you may remember we covered in a different hearing house democrats pressing devos on those plans by the trump administration, her department torsion slash fumblnding for special olympics. their work, the pressure, whatever else, it changed things. facts matter and the trump administration backed out and restored that money. democrats are saying this pressure, this oversight, could do that again. they're calling on the white house to back down on these cuts
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to literacy programs for students across america. tonight what you see again on education, an area that you don't see donald trump tweet as much about. it is a revealing of priorities, yes, values on the issue of how we treat and how we educate and how we protect america's children. so we wanted to tell but. that but it has been a long week. before we go, coming up next, it is time to fall back. i have dj clark kent, gary and liz plank coming up next. ming ut
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it's friday on "the beat." that means it's time the fall back. i am joined by the real superman, hip hop producer clark kent. it reached number two on the billboard with mariah carey's lover boy. he is a sneaker head, having designed sneakers. that's not all. i have the "new york times'" best selling author. his latest novel, lake success has been optioned by hbo. double threat! also, with me, friend of "the beat." she's considerate. she interviewed justin trudeau
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which won her an award. what a great fall back we have. would you call at this time mother of all fallbacks? >> yeah. >> what's the father? >> who is the father? that's a good question. >> you're the good question. >> i do tell dad jokes. >> cool dad. >> that's part of the way there. i love your music, i love that you're here. who needs to fall back? >> lori loughlin. the nerve of her to think that she should let her privilege have her signing autographs outside of court. she should be ashamed of herself. she should fall all the way back. >> if you're going there to face charges that you were helping your kids steal other people's seats in college, that shouldn't be an autograph appearance. >> not at all. she should have been hidden walking in there, and walking out. >> liz, what do you think? >> i think first of all, it's on becky. i think a lot of people will get it. when you say her name, i still forget, lori who, so it's very
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disappointing as a former fan of aunt becky, it's been a fall from grace for me personally. >> who's on your list. >> julian assange and that weird new white beard of his. >> as a novelist, what do you see in the story here? >> i don't know. people these days think it's cool to work with intelligence because you get to fight western democracies and slowly poison people with biological weapons and the pay is pretty good but it's not super cool. we got to put an end to this. you're really helping out this authoritarian regime. >> i'm concerned about the way they are pursuing a publisher, but we welcome all views on fall back, and i do agree with you that the beard is suspect. who needs to fall back? >> what's living in there. >> we don't know. >> paul ryan needs to fall back.
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he was very crass when he gave unsolicited advice. giving advice about how to be a good politician to aoc is sort of like d.j. khalid telling cardi b. how to be a really great rapper. >> would you say d.j. khalid makes the best music? >> my fall back is a big one. take a look at the first ever space photograph of a black hole that we got this week. this incredible thing that we have always heard about, now you're seeing it literally for the first time ever. this could be the top news story of the year, and i want the black hole to fall back for obvious reasons. it's 6 billion times the mass of the sun and if you get too close to it, it will devour your entire planet. i'm like fall back, black hole, you make me aware of both my own cosmic insignificance and you're scary at a planetary level. >> i'm scared of this thing too. >> is it beautiful in a way?
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>> it is beautiful. you're supposed to keep your enemies closer, isn't that -- >> if you get too close to a black hole, you are allegedly swallowed. think about that. >> the question is when you're swallowed, where do you go? >> i think you die. >> you're right, this is why it's metaphysical. i suppose we don't know but it is the depth of matter that swallows all matter, so i think that involves death. >> you'll die. >> i'm no scientologist, but i believe you'll die. >> you're not a scientist? >> i'm sorry. >> i think you'll die on the way there, it really doesn't matter. it's going to take so long to get there, you'll die on the way. >> i want to read from one description we found in the times, this image offers a ringing affirmation of an idea so disturbing that einstein from whose equation the knowledge occurred was loathe to accept it. if too much matter is crammed into one place, the cumulative
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force of gravity becomes overwhelming and the place becomes an eternal trap. >> if einstein is scared, i'm scared. >> and if you're able to take a selfie right before you enter the black hole, then is it worth it? is the selfie worth. >> but the selfie goes with you in the black hole. >> if you're live uploading. >> i'm glad we set aside some time to think about this d.j. clark, liz plank. black hole sun. glad we got to get into this. you have to see this rebuke from a federal judge of donald trump's ongoing attacks on the rule of law. donald trump's ongoing attacks on the rule of law. what if i wielded the power of the infinity gauntlet...? i could bend reality to my will, with a snap of my fingers! i just saved money with geico. i saved hundreds of dollars! nice! that is a lot of money. the power is exhilarating!!
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tonight we also want to leave you with more from the powerful speech i referenced earlier in the broadcast by federal judge denouncing what he calls attacks on the judiciary's independence by president trump and discussing how the rule of law can be twisted throughout history to turn justice backwards. >> when the powerful accuse the courts of opening up our country to potential terrorists, you can hear the southern manifestos authors smearing the judiciary for simply upholding the rights of black folk. when lawmakers say we should get rid of our judges, you can hear segregation as senators writing bills to strip our courts of their power.
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each of us has a role to play in defending our judiciary. judges, politicians and citizens alike must denounce attacks that undermine our ability to do justice. >> some food for thought, as we head into the weekend. thanks for watching. "hardball" is up next. cruel and unusual punishment, let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. remember how president trump said a week ago he was going to get tougher on immigrants. since then he's decapitated the leadership of his department of homeland security for not implementing his hard line policies and now he's found another way to air his frustrations. this time embracing a plan to use migrants, detain migrants as pawns to retaliatega

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