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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  April 16, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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the book is the longevity paradox. how to die young at a ripe old age. doctor, thank you. come back. it was great to have you on. >> what an important read. >> what does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning our lady in ruins. the historic notre dame cathedral still standing after 400 firefighters battled a massive fire for hours. investigators believe it was an accident. the french president pledges to rebuild the monument, saying it is the fate and destiny of france. and 48 hours, a redacted version of the mueller report expected to be delivered to congress this thursday as nbc news learns that some staffers are now worried the report could expose them as the source of damaging information about president trump himself. and this exclusive newly
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obtained documents reveal facebook leadership. i'm looking at you mark zuckerberg, used our personal data as a bargaining chip to kneecap potential rivals. this despite the massive public relations push claiming privacy was a huge priority for the company. we begin this morning with the massive and devastating fire at notre dame cathedral in paris this morning. the flames are now fully extinguished after firefighters waged a frantic nine-hour battle to save one of the most beloved symbols of the catholic faith and france to europe and really to the whole world. the dramatic scene playing out live as people around the world watched in horror. a cathedral that withstood the french revolution, two world wars engulfed in flames. some of the witnesses near the cathedral cried. others prayed. but many sang together.
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♪ >> officials are now beginning the long and painstaking process of assessing all of the damage. you can see from the images that some of the damage there from these pictures is showing what now looks like what's left of inside the cathedral. french leaders are vowing to rebuild and restore the centuries's old cathedral. this is almost 900 years old and they're committed to rebuilding it to its full glory with hundreds of millions of dollars already pledged. let's go to chris jansing joining me live near the cathedral. chris, i feel like it was just a few hours ago you were sitting here right next to me as we saw the spire collapse. tell me what this scene is right now. and what are officials saying about the investigation? >> just as you said that, i got chills, stephanie. i can tell you it's like a gut
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punch when you come upon the cathedral and see the spire is gone. emotions are running high here in paris. so much heart break to see. a cathedral that represents the city and also this country that was built over a period of centuries found itself so desperately damaged in a matter of just a couple hours. that spire, 305 feet into the air. so iconic. came down just in the first hour of the fire. there's also relief that there's two magnificent towers that you can see behind me still standing. thanks to the hard wok of four or 500 firefighters who were taking water directly out. we saw a truck just this morning with its hoses out. there are 100 firefighters still on standby making sure that nothing recurs here. 50 investigators have been assigned to find out what went wrong. paris officials say they do not believe that there was any criminal act. that this was an accident.
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it probably started somewhere in the attic where the trusses that date back to the 1200s are massive. and fire officials say once that started, it was very hard to stop it from spreading through the wood. we have been able to see just in the last few minutes i'm not sure if there's -- there's a couple yellow jackets up on oth top. that work is ongoing even though we've heard they're not 100% sure that it is stable. that going to be one of the first things that they do in terms of the physical building. making sure that it is stable. they've also been questioning construction workers. they've been questioning witnesses to find out just what happened. of course, stephanie, that's only one part of it. the second was talked about by president macron yesterday when he promised to rebuild. >> and talk to me about rebuilding. we all, people around the world
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watched yesterday and almost immediately a campaign started to rebuild and to raise money. and some huge pledges have already been put forward. >> yeah. this is something that's going to take years, maybe even decades to rebuild. and they haven't even had a chance to really start thinking about how they're going to approach this. but lvmh, a large corporation, the head of it is the richest man in europe, has pledged 200 million euros. another business pledged $100 million. the city of paris putting in 50 million. there have been no estimates about how much it's going to cost, but you can just imagine structurally what it's going to take. if there is some good news. in the past several years, there was 3 d imaging within five centimeters. they'll have exacting drawings, a specific way to know every single stone that was in that building and every wooden truss, where it was, how it was placed,
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and there's been a lot of concern about these absolutely priceless works of art. people so relieved the see the rose windows are still in intact. the crown of thorns, good friday coming up in a couple days, they were able to save that. the tunic of a 13th century french king and so many works of art. that will be another huge expense and huge process, restoring everything. and many of those pieces we just learned in the last hour or so have been moved over to a safe place in the ministry of culture where they can begin the assessment. >> the crown of thorns saved. the significance to catholics around the world this week as just the few days from holy thursday, good friday and of course, easter sunday. chris, thank you so much. chris, i want you to stay with me. i want to bring elizabeth lebb into the conversation. author about how catholic art saved faith.
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liz, you wrote an amazing on ed titled the angels are weeping over the ravages of notre dame. what is going through your mind this morning, and yesterday as you saw that spire fall? >> i think yesterday as an art lover, it was visceral. it was incredibly painful to see this work that i'd loved since a child. it was going up in smoke. this morning as an art guide, i started thinking about the preciousness of the art we have. we assume those things are always going to be there. we see a long line, i'll go in some other time. last night we realized these things are not guaranteed to be around forever. but this afternoon as an art historian, i know that church, notre dame has suffered many, many damages and problem in the past. it's been almost knocked down. it's been shot through. it's had little fires. i'm sure as an art historian that as it has come back many other times, it will come back
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again. >> chris jansing, you want to jump in? >> reporter: yeah. i'd love to, liz. obviously the work that is ahead to -- i'm sure there's been some smoke damage. they're doing the assessment right now. americans have always been huge in the international art world as you well know. there is an organization of americans called the vatican patrons that their sole purpose is to restore pieces in the vatican collection. you're very familiar with the restoration work that goes on there. peas from the same period. give us a sense of what it's going to be like moving forward. how difficult that work is going to be and how expensive it can be and time consuming. >> i think the first thing is it's going to be a long time to a assess what has happened and what must be done. and to get a sense of the different lay yours of history, we're talking about an
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800-year-old building that was very heavily restored in 1860. so that spire that we saw crash last night was actually built in the 19th century. it's going to be a question of just as in the 18th century and the 19th century they had to put together the art of the 13th century with the modern techniques and needs of the 19th century, now we have a church which we have to build on the first level, second level, third level, and now the 21st century. that's going to be difficult and costly. the more you try to replicate, be careful. think of the hand cut stones. that church we look at, that stone was hand cut. it was personally made by someone who took personal pride. if craftsmanship was a huge deal in the 13th century, it's even more precious today. so it's going to be a tremendous undertaking with a lot of study and a lot of work. but americans also have a very good precedent in france.
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in the second world war when the cathedral was damaged, a bomb hit the roof and the entire roof melted and the church burned on the inside much like this one, it was the rockefellers and other wealthy families and other americans who really stepped up to help rebuild the churches. we have a great history in many different places. >> all right. liz, chris, thank you both so much. we just looked at live images and we can see the tour boats are just starting up again. this being holy week, there are many, many tourists in paris this week. many of whom had planned to visit the cathedral. all right. we have to take you now back here state side. we are just 48 hours approximately from one of the most highly anticipated document releases in modern political history. nbc news has learned that for many people inside the president's orbit, the legal risks from the mueller report
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pale in comparison to the potential backlash from president trump if he figures out who spilled the most damaging secrets about him and his administration. i want to bring in carol lee who has more on this exclusive report. people are worried around the president. >> surprise. yeah. we talked to people who said that there's a lot of anxiety about the report because from their perspective, they were told cooperate with the investigation. the white house told them to talk. the only thing to do in a situation like that is to go in and tell the truth and be candid about everything you know. and the flip side is that when this report comes out, people are worried that either their names will be disclosed as having provided certain information or which is probably more likely is that it will just be obvious who said what in certain instances n particularly the instance where it's just one individual and the president. and the concern is that then the president will lash out. people around him will start to criticize, and that they will be
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targeted for having cooperated in an investigation that they were told by the white house to cooperate with. >> what are they doing? >> biting nails, maybe having drinks, trying to figure out -- one of the things, some lawyers of people who cooperated and others have tried to get the justice department to tell them what to expect. try to ease some of the concerns that they have. but they're not getting any information. but they're asking a lot of questions, trying to figure out. >> my goodness. well, i'm anxious to see that report. carol, amazing piece. we'll have much more on that exclusive nbc news report in a few minutes. a former member of the trump white house will join me. and later, beto and bernie both release a decade's worth of tax returns and seth meyers reveals a new letter from democrats that may have finally convinced president trump to release his. or at least seth thinks so. >> mr. president, some would say best president, we're writing to request your tax returns.
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as we wait for the mueller report to come out thursday morning, nbc has learned people inside the administration are scared of it. worried of the president lashing out at them because they
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cooperated with the special counsel even if that is what the president's legal team told them to do. joining me now, alise jordan, former aide to the bush white house and anthony scare mooch chi. anthony, i want to start with you and this nbc news reporting. you speak to people in the white house and you were in the white house. what position are they in? >> i think the thing will blow over. my opinion is that there's nobody at the justice department that's carrying the president's water. the attorney general barr is not putting out the four-page memo saying as ek polixplicitly as h about the collusion, et cetera, if there's a big problem for people in the white house. . >> but there are people who cooperated and talked to mueller. >> i see that. but i think the president will have to actually deal with that.
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will he be upset temporarily, but at tend of the day, this is in the rear-view mirror. he needs to focus on the reelection and the people with him need to be with him. i don't think there will be ejections from the white house. >> but you know him. does he forgive anyone who speaks out against him? >> i think so. he's a politician at this point. he knows how to play both sides of things? >> maya, let's walk through what we're potentially going to see here, and let's get away from the here's what it should be. what do you think we're actually going to get? because democrats are counting on this. and based on bill barr's last system, i'm not sure they're going to get much. >> it's very hard to know. we really would be guessing to say what we're going to get. i would suspect and certainly hope given some of the reporting that we would see is the
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summaries of each sections. that we have leaks from people on mueller's team who say we made those. i would expect to see that. i think we should expect to see redactions. i don't know what. looking to see if they're going to tell us what the color coding is. but certainly when we're talking about ongoing investigations. there are several ongoing investigations that relate to evidence that robert mueller's team uncovered. i would expect that we will see redactions related to ongoing investigations. we certainly will see some related to national security. and then there's the grand jury material. and i think this is where it really gets a little harder to stomach not seeing more information, because william barr having stated in his confirmation hearing that he thought transparency was the most important thing for the public to move on. i agree. we need transparency, but he has the legal authority to ask the
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judge to make -- to allow him to release that. >> do you think he's going to do that? >> i don't. i think this goes back to the point that i do think there's a lot of work here to at least at a minimum save the president some embarrassment, and i suspect more than embarrassment. i suspect some things that are damaging to his reputation in a way that has some consequences, particularly when we know there are ongoing investigations? >> to maya's point about how bill barr has the power to make choices in terms of public presentation are more advantageous to the administration, releasing it on thursday before a holiday weekend and donald trump, if he was smart, if he could exercise himself control, the best thing for him to do would be to take the holiday weekend and not talk about whatever is in there that he is upset about. and you know as his former director, that is going to be impossible. >> well, we'll have to see what's in it. the it's inside what i think it is, the base case of what we
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sort of already know, he may actually do that. the it's a little bit more impugning on his reputation, he's going to fire back. we'll have to see what's in it. i think it's going to be more benign than people think. these people are serious people. william barr has been around for 40 years. >> robert mueller is also a serious person and he put together a 400-page report. >> and we don't know -- >> i understand that, but, he said there was no collusion. >> no. he said he did not have evidence to establish. that raises the question of how much evidence, because there's a big difference between evidence that exonerates the word exonerate is not used. how much evidence? >> the president has used exonerate. >> yes. >> the president said he was exonerated. >> bill barr did not. remember that sentence is half a sentence. it's not even -- we don't even know how long the sentence. >> is i don't think there's a halfway on this one. >> the point is you have the
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obstruction where he states very clearly that he was not exonerated and where whatever happened in the exchange between robert mueller and william barr we don't know, but you have a special counsel appointed to be essentially an independent investigator to report to the attorney general to make the call. so certainly we would expect to see and know and understand more about how that decision was made and what the evidence is. because remember, under the constitution, it is also congress's job to determine whether or not there are abuses of authority that merit action. and that was part of the charge for robert mueller is to share enough information to congress for it to also acquit its constitutional obligations. >> legal experts and politicos are hanging on every word of this. alise, take me to your focus groups. how important is this to the american people? >> not really that important. you don't see among the electorate that much excitement
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being generated over russia, over foreign policy in general. over the mueller investigation as you do on the political polls. so i feel like if you are really dramatically in one camp and you're very much a supporter of trump, if you don't care for trump very much, you want a certain result, but we just have to wait and see what the truth is going to be. >> anthony, it matters a lot to the media. you wrote an editorial in the hill urging the president to kind of back off trying to help him understand the importance of the free press. and you went onto talk about all the good things the press has done over the years. you made some great points, but given that the president has been ranting fake news, fake news, and we know what it's like at a trump rally, has the damage been done? will trump's base ever believe? >> i don't think so. because i think it's a long time between now and the election. but one of the things that the president is going to need to do is rebuild a coalition that includes moderates and
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independents and some conservative democrats. if he wants to win the reelection, which he does. my point in the article is establishing why we have a free press. it helps us with economic innovation. if you can teach young children to speak freely, they will think freely. for me, i think it's very important as a trump supporter to lay that out there to explain to people the press is not the enemy of the people. the president should stop saying that. it's not going to hurt him with his base to stop saying that. it mate open up the opportunity for people to reconsider him again for reelection. i think it's important to lay that out there but also to provide the constitutional framework for why it exists. >> alise, we're living in a world where the president rants about enemy of the people and fake news all day every day. can we get out from under this? >> it's not constructive. it's not helping them. >> i think this is donald trump's favorite rallying cry.
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it's unlikely he's going to stop going there any time in the near future. i think that for him he sees it as a bonus because this is -- the resentment among so many trump supporters for the coverage of him during the campaign and the ongoing reporting of factual information about what he's saying on a daily basis. he thrives off of. >> this guy is a winner and wants to win reelection, and there's nobody that could convince me that that is the president path of reelection. you can galvanize your base with other issues like immigration, the strength of the economy, and you can appeal to the moderates by dialing down the rhetoric. when he spokes aspirationally ad in the state of the union, you could see his poll numbers rising. when he speaks that way, he does better in the polls. >> when he speaks that way, he's speaking on a script someone else wrote for him. >> you're not giving him enough
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credit. >> he's the president. if you want to tell me he gives inclusive messages, he does it every once in a blue moon when he is giving a speech that's been written for him. but when he speaks from his heart on the twitter machine -- >> when he does it, his poll numbers go up. stop doing the other stuff. focus on the stuff that gets your poll numbers up. you should be in the mid 60s given national security and the rest of the world in terms of lackluster -- you could be in the mid 50s, early 60s or low 60s if you stop doing this other stuff. >> last point, maya? >> i think notion because it goes back to the point of counterintelligence investigations. donald trump is actually using that bully pulpit to ignore both our protocols on national security clearances to determine unilaterally without the advice and against the advice of his own leadership to share national
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security secrets including with countries that are not our friends. i would push back a little bit. i agree with the points about the free press an that he would do better to support it. but i think that he is actually -- as denigrated many of the institutions of government. up next, more and more democrats release their tax returns. bernie sanders seems to be the only one on the defensive over his. does his millionaire status affect his socialist politics? make fitness routine with pure protein.
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i am a millionaire. this year we had $560,000 income. that's a lot of money. and that money in my case and my wife's case, it came from a book that i wrote, a pretty good book. you might want to read it. it was a best-seller. it sold all over the world and we made money. if anyone thinks that i should apologize for writing a best-selling book, i'm sorry, i'm not going to do it. i guess the president watches your network a little bit. right? hey, president trump, my wife and i just released ten years. please do the same. let the american people know.
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>> that of course is senator bernie sanders announcing last night on fox news that he is, in fact, a millionaire. sanders following through on his promise to release a decade of tax returns. officially joining the presidential contenders who have vowed full transparency on their financial records. joining me now nbc's garrett haake in iowa and nbc political reporter ali batali in miami. mr. headacgarrett haake, you're cory booker. he's not released his tax returns. the last time we saw them, i want to say was in 2013. when do you think they're coming? >> i asked booker. he said the returns are coming soon. i pressed him. he said really soon but wasn't more specific. regardless, he will be one of the last of the major 2020 candidates to release his taxes. he said he's going to do it. he said president trump should do it. usually these things are one-day
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stairs for candidates. so far booker is lagging on that front. >> reporter: he had a big launch event on saturday focussed on criminal justice reform. there you are in iowa. does he seem to be picking up any steam with voters there? >> he was well received last night in. last night he was talking about tax credit and expansion of the earned income tax credit he says will help middle class people all around the country. he talks about trying to get the tone right in this country. talking about love. talking about unity and bipartisanship. take a listen. >> i think we've reached a point in this country where the describabli tribalism is running so deep that we can't even do is things we agree on. you won't catch me demonizing someone else because of their party. i don't even like people saying the republicans as if they're a
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monolithic group that says you're dumber than me. it puts them down. >> this puts booker in a stylistic lane with beto o'roarke who i've spent a lot of time covering recently trying to reach out to republicans and trying to show there can be a president for everyone. trying to not be as aggressive in the tone as how they go after the president and the republican party. we're in a conservative part of iowa trying to set up as big of a tent as possible to get folks in and get folks listening to the message. >> ali, you're in florida with senator amy klobuchar. looking at the polling, she's not very high compared to others. she is one of the few democratic candidates who does not support medicare for all. what do we think she's going to put forward today? does she have another plan? >> i don't think we're going to see a plan, but maybe i'll be surprised when we get in and go to the round table upstairs at this center in miami. you're right. amy globe shar is the only
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senator in this race who is not co-sponsoring the medicare for all bill. it puts her in a different lane on this issue on health care. and it's interesting. the way that she talks about it is she wants to build on the system that we already have. specifically creating a public option and allowing people to buy into that while also letting private insurance companies remain competitive in the system. it does differentiate her. she's not alone. john hickenlooper putting out this kind of a working plan. but again, we haven't seen any policy specifics from amy klobuchar on this issue. i will say as much as it's a differentiating factor, over 80% of people in recent iowa poll said they want to find someone who buys into medicare for all at some point. while she might not be saying it's an immediate fix, she has not ruled it out. >> ali, thanks. back with me alise jordan and anthony scaramucci. it seems that the democratic
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strategy, they're all going to release their taxes and push the president, say it's all about transparency. we know he says he's under audit. he can't do it. we fact checked him. he absolutely can. do you believe or should he release his taxes so democrats will stop hammering or does he not care? >> you're never going to see his tax returns. he's not going to release them? >> why? >> i think it has to do with what happened to governor r romney. the minute say they saw offshore activity in the kaman islands, they exposed it. the president is a rich guy. he has a lot of tax shelters likely in the return as a result of real estate investment? >> we know that from the extensive reporting? . >> t not going to happen. he doesn't want 1500 reporters and invest gaitive journalists and research people from around
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washington exploring his tax returns and pulling out a sinist sinister nugget that he probably knowing him, he probably didn't even look at. he probably has 10 accountants and ten lawyers that did the form, and he got it and signed the form. he doesn't want a land mine to explode on him during the reelection. it was a successful strategy in 2016. i predict it will be successful in 2020. at the end of the day, not going to be the rate limiting decision that people make. the people don't care. he has a 93% approval rating among republican registered voters. the democrats will make a big issue. that will be one of the corner stone issues. he won that. didn't release the returns and won the election. i don't see it happening. >> it doesn't seem to be a corn enstone issue. >> i think he has a substitution skoou -- constitutional right for privacy. >> he does have an obligation to be transparent with the american
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people. and he got away with it. he was elected without showing the tax returns. at this point i do think it is a better political strategy for donald trump to hunker down and hold on to the tax returns. he obviously is heavily concerned about what would be revealed and that's apparent. we already have seen pretty much what we need to know from the new york times. incredible investigative reporting. it won a pulitzer on tax day showing how shady they manipulated tax laws. >> it's so shady and "the new york times" is so accurate. why hasn't he been prosecuted and the trump organization -- >> the statute of limitations. >> the president to your exact point, the president may have employed tax shelters and other strategies that could be legal loopholes? >> justice -- hold on a second.
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>> his sister resigned her -- >> the sister is obviously not the president. she's decided to live more privately than president trump. but justice learner hand said in a very famous case you can do anything as long as it's legal to avoid taxes. if you're telling me -- >> to that point -- >> if you're saying it's shady, but to the opinion of his tax lawyers and accountants and justice saying the same thing. >> you said it. there could be a nugget in there that voters won't like. if i'm calling it shady -- >> but he knows the game of washington. he's like let's focus on issues that are important to the american people like growing the economy, increasing job activities, rising wages. these things are more important to the american people than his tax returns. he knows because the way politics are played in our society and the demonization, they buried governor romney as a
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result of an offshore account and told people on false ads he was giving women cancer in the middle of michigan. so they deformed and destroyed romney's ability to define himself and one thing about president trump. he knows how to define himself. you have to make a decision if you want to vote for that or not. but he's not releasing his tax returns. i don't think anywhere near him. i think supreme court will rule that way. >> we may find out. bernie sanders like president trump sort of has an impenetrable base. releasing his taxes now the people know his wealth. is it going to affect his base? >> absolutely not. i have started to say that bernie sanders has woke immunity. anything that would be demanded of other candidates within the democratic field such as his hiring practices and the way women are treated on his campaign or his tax returns and how much of a benefit he's going to get from the trump tax cuts, that bernie sanders is simply immune to criticism from his hard core base.
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>> there's a gop primary bid against president trump. he joined our colleagues on "morning joe" and the list you went through is what he's focussed on. wages, the economy, you didn't mention but climate change, and how it impacts the economy. could he be a formidable opponent for the president who at this time should be riding high in theory off the mueller report, yet, he's doubling down. we could be digging back into child separation policy which was a low point for the president. >> we were talking about that at the break. i don't understand why the president's doing that. it's almost like there's an element of self-torture. >> i'd say torture to those people. >> torture of the people, but also he's damaging himself. it's stupid to go in that direction. i don't think there's anybody that's going to be honest with him that supports separating women from their children at the border. >> then why? >> if he thinks that's a good policy which he said last week he's not going to do that. i'll take him on his word.
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that's a disastrous policy for the united states. >> take me there. where does it come from? how does this bubble to the top? >> that's a good question. i think somebody signed something, maybe it was secretary nielsen -- >> who is not tough enough. why was she not tough enough for president trump when she was separating mother and children? >> he's the president. it's very hard to not conform your personality when you're with the president of the united states. and so he needs strong people around him that are going to tell him the truth. if he doesn't like it, then they get blown out of the office. that's the problem. you want to survive or you want to tell the truth. there's a dichotomy. i would prefer to tell the truth. that's why i wrote the editorial and why i hate child separation as an issue, and i don't know why he continues to bring it even into the news. it's just stupid and hurtful to his campaign. as it relates to bill weld, him and president trump are identical to me. i would just recommend that bill
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change his hair color so he can differentiate himself from the president because they're so similar. >> i'm pretty sure the american people who care about education, health care -- >> you need to go right over that. you didn't even laugh. >> i have a feeling unlike a lot of other guys, i don't think he colors his hair. it's natural. as for the president, i'm not sure. >> all right. >> were you about to imply that you color yours? >> i was using cuban leader black. it looked terrible on tv. it looks better now. >> what? >> latin american dictator brown. >> go to a colorist and ask for the color. coming up, an nbc exclusive report on facebook. how leadership including mark zuckerberg used your data as a bargaining chip to help companies run by his friends and punish any potential competitors. while at the meantime pushing a
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pr strategy saying we're focussed on your privacy. up next, back to paris for the latest on the fire at notre dame. the interior minister about to go inside for the first time to assess the damage. i was thinking... could there be another around the corner? or could it turn out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot... almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. ...and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily... and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising.
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we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com investment opportunities beyfirsthand, like biotech.ne because your investments deserve the full story. t. rowe price invest with confidence. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. we're getting our first look at some of the damage sustained inside the cathedral after the raging fire tore through the iconic building. richard engel is live in paris
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right here the cathedral. we're seeing an outpouring of support from world leaders today. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: we're seeing an outpouring of support from political leaders and in this country some of the most powerful families have already donated about half a billion dollars. almost all of them french companies that are in the cosmetics business, the luxury brands business who have taken it upon themselves to answer the french president's call to rebuild notre dame. but right now we are not out of the danger zone yet. there was a massive fire. it happened about 24 hours ago. since then all eyes have been trained on this cathedral. the fire not only collapsed the spire. it burned off the roof and that has caused according to officials here, skutructural problems. they're mainly focussed in the north corner of the transept where you can see the crane
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behind me. if you can imagine a box, if you take the lid off, it makes the box less stable. that's what officials are worried about. there could be some shifting. they've gone to the extraordinary step of evacuating some of the residential buildings. five residential buildings just behind that crane out of concern that there could be a potential collapse. the fire is out. there are still some firemen here on call in case it lights up again. but the big concern right now is that without the roof on, there could be some shifting potential even structural damage. >> those images surreal. richard, thank you so much. in the aftermath of devastating church fires, don't forget is being felt here at home too. in louisiana one former nfl tight end is helping a fund raising effort for three historically black churches that were deliberately burned down in the state's st. landry parish.
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benjamin watson tweeted an address and go fund me page where those interested can send donations. the campaign has already raised almost $100,000. but i firmly believe we can get that number up. i am tweeting out where you can find out more on this important fund-raiser. all right, it is time now for money, power, politics. facebook ceo a man we all know well, mark zuckerberg, may not be selling users' data, but he has a long history of using it as an aggressive bargaining chip to help his friends and hurt his competitors. that is despite the fact that the company insists user privacy is their absolute top priority. nbc stephanie gosk has more. stephanie, walk us through this and is it illegal what facebook did? >> no, they're not accused of doing anything illegal and nobody charged with anything, but this has really shining a window on to its business practices. we know facebook gathers
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information on us and our shares, our likes and our friends. what these documents show is how during a specific period of time when they were looking how to monetize their business how they used or plan to use that information with very little discussion about users' privacy. facebook under new scrutiny this morning. four documents obtained from a court case against the company lift the curtain on facebook's business practices between 2011 and 2015. one employee even comparing the company to villains in "game of thrones." as the social media giant looked for ways to grow its business and cut losses. top executives at the company including ceo mark zuckerberg and coo cheryl sandburg discussed ways to sell user data. in 2012, documents show zuckerberg wanted to figure out the real market value of user data to set a public rate, a plan seemingly at odds with
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zuckerbe zuckerberg's public message. >> we offer these extremely robust pricing controls where literally any piece of information can control exactly who uses it. >> facebook never sold data but did trade information with other companies. >> facebook is being strategic in terms of trading user data in order to get, you know, stuff in return. >> reporter: the documents show that facebook allowed special access to data for companies described as friends of zuckerberg. like amazon. which received special treatment in june of 2013 because it was a facebook advertiser. while another messaging app seen as a competitor to facebook messenger was restricted from accessing facetop bobook data. they said they were cherry picked writing the sets of documents by design, tells only one side of the story and omits
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important context. we still stand by the platform changes we made in 2014, 2015. facebook made a greater push to address privacy issues like the data of 87 million users that was improperly shared with cambridge analytica. >> i started facebook, i run it and at the end of the day, i am responsible for what happens here. >> reporter: some attempts to trade and sell user data raise more questions. so we reached out to facebook to do on-camera interviews about this, steph, they declined. although we did include their statements emphasizing the fact that they did not sell data and put new restrictions since 2015 in how they use people's data and information. >> they didn't sell it, but they did use it. i hope they get back to you. i would love to see you sit down
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with mark or cheryl. i want to bring in a dear friend of mine and anthony scaramucci still with me. facebook is treating data like an asset, which it is. >> oh, no. look, data is the new oil, so let's not fall out of our chair when the ceo of one of the greatest gathering information in history, that's what it is. an asset. arguably, anybody should go in using their eyes wide open. everybody understands that at this point. my children understand that. so, if something is so private that you'll be offended if it's used to product a market to you, here's something novel. don't put it on facebook. >> anthony, this is just the latest we heard from what facebook does. facebook is a huge problem, but
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do they really? they're advertising revenue. stock is reaching an all-time high and ad revenue is not down and user growth isn't down. do they have a problem or not? everybody knows they do this and nobody is deleting. >> in my opinion, they don't have a business problem or a financial problem. stocks will do very well. and little pr problem and optics problem. but i think the real problem for facebook and places like twitter, just open it up. open up the forum and allow for a free marketplace of ideas on these websites and it will be, it will be more profitable for them in the end. >> but sharing free ideas and allowing hate speech or propaganda are two different things because at this point, millions of people use facepook a and twitter to get their news. those platforms are not held to the standards that mead i accompanies are. >> i am not a hate speech person but my level of engagement because of my trump support has been ridiculously curtailed on
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places like facebook and twitter. i'm not a hate speech person. >> do you really think that's true? i can prove it to you, josh. >> i think if you're very good on a platform, your audience will find you and your audience will grow. i think if you're aligned with people who are saying things that are offensive to the main stream, it's not -- >> i must be very bad on the pla plantform, which i'll accept. for me on the economics on what facebook is doing, it's really an optics problem and less of a financial problem and less of a legal problem. so, i think they're doing a way better job today of managing the public relations of that and, let's be clear, they never sold any data, but, you know, to josh's -- >> you're right. >> to josh's point, you have to expect them to use that information as currency. >> they take the advantages they
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have, sometimes it's financial asset, sometimes it's information and sometimes it's speed and sometimes geographic presence and they use that to their advantage to grow the business further. that's literally what they are supposed to be doing. government has a role to play. they should look at these activities from time to time and say, is the abuser being abused? >> it's not the only company being abused of this. they run into the same issue. >> but the point you're making is an issue with the government and not the company. if what these companies are doing are exploiting their users and at the end of the day their users aren't their customers, their advertisers are their users. we need to have smart regulation. >> it is going the other way. >> no, the television networks here, the next generation of commercials on tv will be targeted directly to the person who owns the tv set. that is where the technology is
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going. not only is facebook not going to stop, you're now going to see other entertainment companies copy them. >> those are two different things. using data to target the consumer is different from facebook getting regulated or not. >> they will get regulated because the government will not accept the political pressure. they're going to regulate. will it be good regulation or hurt facebook's profitability. >> here's the irony -- >> it might hurt their profitability, but that might be okay. regulation isn't here to boost profitability, it's here to make platforms safer. >> if you regulate it, you make it stronger. >> the best regulation keeps consumers safe but doesn't hamper a corporation's ability to gain profit. >> take a look at the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. we regulated the top five or six banks, are any stronger than they were in 2006?
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they're all bigger. so, now you say to internet social media platforms, here are the new regulations. we worked for four years on them and it's going to cost a ton of money. guess who can afford to comply? alphabet, facebook, twitter. guess who can't afford to comply? any other would-be competitor that comes along. arguably one of the best things that could happen. you raise the barrier to entry and give facebook this gift of regules. they'll be fine. no one else will. >> start ups will be the new community banks that got strangled. i'll see you at 1:00 p.m. for a little "velshi & ruhle." i'll tweet you about the go fund me page about the churches in louisiana that need donations. right now i hand you off to my dear friend in washington, hallie jackson. >> i'm hallie jackson in washington. as the world watches the fight
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to save notre dame. we have brand-new information just coming in from french officials on this investigation. the french ministers saying this morning the structure of the iconic church is still not totally stable. right now 100 firefighters at this moment are still mobilized on the scene. we have been watching as they have been climbing up and down the storeied bell towers. forensic investigators down below waiting for the go ahead to go inside and see what else could be saved. a collective, global mourning meet a growing spirit of hope around the world. the archbishop of new york speaking earlier about that today. >> as people gather around and look at the charred remains of our beloved notre dame, it's almost like we're at a funeral parlor. the spirit of resurrection, new life, revival. it strikes me.

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