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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  May 1, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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just suck it up. while you're there, subscribe to the oath. this is exciting. the brand new podcast hosted by another chuck podcast. it features these guys, somebody you may have heard of, the former fbi director james comey and preet bharara. corey booker will be your guest, stephanie. you don't need me. >> it is going to be a busy day. i am stephanie in for my friend ari melber. we start this evening with breaking news tonight. jerry nadler speaking. >> the underlying evidence, but not for much longer. it is not optional and if good faith negotiations don't result in a pledge of compliance in the next day or two, the next step
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is seeking a citation against the attorney general. >> there are many questions that must be answered. the committee will convene at 9:00. i hope and expect that the attorney general will think overnight and will be there as well. are there any questions? >> will you issue a subpoena? >> tomorrow we'll issue a subpoena. the first thing is to get the unredacted report and we will negotiate on that for another day or two. if necessary, remember, that was subpoena'd. if necessary, go for it after that. we'll also start a process to get attorney general barr there. >> what is your response to the rarnging member who says you're torpedoing this hearing? >> we're not torpedoing it. the committee has the right. they have the nerve to try to
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dictate it. it is part of administration's complete stone walling of congress, period. and with the ranking members, what they're saying is that by determining how we'll proceed, we are stone walling as if it is our choice that he should not come. he is trying blackmail the committee into not following what we think is the most effective means of eliciting the information we need. we cannot dictate how we operate. i think he will have to answer for apparently testifying untruthfully in both the senate and the house and that is one option. >> i'm sorry. >> will you start proceedings
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for not getting the unredact mueller report? >> that's what in. >> what about -- >> that's down the road. that's down the road we haven't issued a subpoena to appear. >> you're not planning to? >> i did not say that. we may issue a subpoena. our first priority to get the unredacted mueller report. by the way, we're looking the get mueller before the committee on may 15th. >> that's the day we've been talking about. >> do you really need committee lawyers to ask questions? do you think that's one of the reasons it's not coming? >> i think that's the reason he is not coming. he is terrified of having to face a skilled attorney.
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we have very talented members and they ask very good questions but a five-minute rule is not conducive to follow-up. we've seen spending the four four and a half minutes. the last half minute getting a nonresponsive answer and then to the next person. it is very valuable as any lawyer will tell you to have somebody, in this case, a staff lawyer, who can follow up, take up loose ends that were suggested by questions from members, and follow up when he gives an unresponsive answer. say wait a minute. you said this last week. how can you say it now? that's effective. the most effective way of getting at the facts and getting at the truth. i can understand, given how dishonest he's been, i can
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understand why he is afraid of facing more effective examination. >> how does this affect -- >> thank you very much. >> house judiciary chairman jerry nadler talking about attorney general bill barr refusing to testify before his committee tomorrow. nadler now saying they could hold him in contempt. we'll be covering every of the story today. in just a moment, i'll speak to senator corey book here questioned barr and now says barr should resign. and we begin where barr's testimony began. today barr forced to defend himself after the release of a letter robert mueller wrote him in march suggesting barr misled the public with that four-page summary. today, democrats, they certainly let barr have it. >> i feel the answer was purposely misleading.
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and i think others do, too. >> you lied to congress. >> the american public has seen quite well that you are biased in this situation and you're not objective. >> i think history will judge you harangly. >> today barr over and over, almost like a defense attorney for the president, doing just that. defending donald trump and do knowing questions between bill barr and the president himself. >> has the president or anyone at the white house ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? yes or no, please, sir. >> the president or anybody else. >> it seems would you remember something like that and be able to tell us. >> i'm trying on grapple with the word suggest. there have been suggestions of matters out there that they've not asked me to open an investigation. >> perhaps they've suggested? >> i don't know. i wouldn't say suggest. >> hinted?
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inferred? you don't know. okay. >> barr also hitting bob mueller. bob mueller for declining to make a decision on obstruction. >> i think if he felt he should not go down the path of making a traditional prosecutive decision, he shouldn't have investigated. that was the time to pull up. >> but mueller was very clear in his report. he did not make a finding on obstruction because he thought it should be up to congress to do just that. barr today repeating over and over, he did not think that was mueller's decision to make. >> bob mueller is the equivalent of a u.s. attorney. he is part of the department of justice. his work concluded when he sent his report to the attorney general. at that point, it was my baby.
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and it was my decision how and when to make it public. not bob mueller. >> joining us now, new jersey, my home state senator corey booker who questioned bill barr today. senator, i want to start by playing part of your questions earlier. >> i fear that you are adding normalcy to a point where we should be sounding alarms as opposed to saying there is nothing to see here. you seem to be excusing a campaign that literally had hundreds of contacts with a foreign adversary. your conduct seals to be trying to normalize that behavior. >> senator, you clearly say that bill barr at this point should resign. given that you are in the minority, what can you do about it? >> well, come on. at this point, it is absurd. he showed a level of cowardise today like an umpire calling balls and strikes. he was over there with team
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trump and representing a president as opposed to doing his job as an independent attorney general. it is inexcusable. anybody who reads that point wants to be objective. it is a report that describes deceit, lies, instructing people to falsify documents. there is so much outrageous behavior that is creating a normalcy in our country of behavior that in any other time period before this, would have had both sides crying foul. in fact, showing that you're endangering the nation. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> without a doubt. this is 2019. barr's performance today surely pleased the president and you saw lindsey graham and an entire squad of human shields. so you and i might think it's absurd. we're living in the present. what is the reality in terms of consequences? bill barr won't even show up tomorrow. >> again, the consequences, i am still a believer that you speak
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truth to power. i am still a believer that you call it like it is. we have an obligation. i don't care if you're a democrat or republican. to call this out for what it is. the way that barr described this report so angered even mueller mueller did something that was unusual to put it in writing his calling into question. the role that barr was playing and how he was misleading the american public to believe that there weren't objectionable things in that report that are tantamount to obstruction. so this is more my concern right now. that this mueller report now is almost like may book telling the chinese or the russians and future campaigns that want to put their own ambition in front of their objections. i've heard this, to reach out to a campaign, everybody down here in washington knows what they're supposed to do which is call the
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fbi. here is a campaign that delighted in them being reached out to. they called upon foreign adversaries and did things on clu collude with them to win an election. then you have a president spi literally engage in the deep levels of deceit and deep levels of trying to obstruct an investigation, from threatening on fire people, trying to change public documents, and ultimately, that's not my description. that's the facts that were presented in this mueller report. for us not to say time out for a second. let's call this like it is. to me is unforgivable. that's why i've called upon barr to resign. remember, there's ongoing investigations that he now gets to oversee. any investigations that mueller found in the course of this investigation that didn't directly relate to him but any
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criminal activity that now barr is supposed to be an objective, i think not. he has burned through any credibility he had. >> so what does that mean for ancillary investigations? seeing that barr is the attorney general, are they all tainted now? >> well, it cast as serious shadow. i have a lot of faith in the leadership in places like the southern district of new york. i have a lot of those people that continue those investigations. and i think now barr, should he stay in that job, and i think he should resign, if he stays in that job he will have the fierce eye of history on him and he will be held accountable for anything he does for a behavior that has been described by mueller as at least strong evidence, ten different counts of potential obstruction of ngs that did he in the campaign that even in the american context would be viewed as leave. remember, sharing, polling
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information within an american super pack is against the law. and they shared information with a foreign adversary to advance their campaign. >> think about the irony. we look at the report and what's the takeaway? that we didn't put america first. one of the president's favorite slogans. tell me about republicans. your colleagues on the other side of the aisle. and i don't mean those who we necessarily heard from today who you've worked with time and againful are they saying something else behind the scenes? most rational people think, people think they're not reflect. are republicans? >> i have friends across the aisle that helped me get a lot of the legislation passed. i've been hearing about the failure to condemn nazis, putting children in cages, refusing to accept a bipartisan
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senate, a unanimous vote to keep the government open and instead shut it down. >> i mean in terms of this. this is where the rubber hits the road. i think this president has been engaged in the undermining of our democratic institutions and our democratic norms in a way that should have called more and more people to speak publicly about what they say in private. and this clearly, clearly is a case. if this doesn't account for obstruction, where the attorney general would bring these charges, then just think about what's going on in this mueller report that the next president now believes they can do. ordering their white house counsel to manufacture documents, ordering the firing people for the sole purpose of stopping an investigation. this attorney general is saying that's okay. that's the norm. not to mention a campaign that was literally calling for the violation of american laws by a foreign adversary. we cannot normalize this. all of us have an obligation to
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say what's in this report is wrong. for him to characterize this report saying the american public should be grateful was the words he used. that somehow we should be grateful that there was no so-called collusion, not a will he term, to me, this is really a low. unfortunately, a road map for anyone watching. >> what do you think bob mueller will do? it is truly out of character for him to write a letter like that. as he true chain of command type of guy. we heard from lindsey graham today who in the past has called the president unfit, a disaster. now lindsey graham defending bill barr. he said he doesn't even think they need to call bob mueller to
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testify. do you think bob mueller will insist upon it? >> well, lindsey who i've worked, with i think he is wrong in this case. clearly anybody who reads this report, for all that, the resources we put into it. at the very least, the author of the report who understands all the underlying documentation should come forward and answer the questions of the body that now has the obligation to held to president accountable and provide oversight. so it would be a serious mistake. history will not look kindly on it and i know the house of representatives will be calling mueller to testify, as i am calling for the judiciary committee to do as well. i want to bring in nick, political reporter for the "new york times," and former u.s. attorney joyce vance who has been working overtime today. joyce, we have spent, you have spent hours in this chair.
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now that you have watched it. you've thought about it. you've observed, you've absorb. what is your takeaway? >> i think it was disappointing performance. it was a bad day for the justice department. because we saw an attorney general who perhaps did not commit outright perjury but who is big to slice things very narrowly. cut his responses close to the bone in order to support this president. by the end of the day, you have the feeling you've been listening to the president's defense team. >> if barr refuses to testify tomorrow, where do we go from here? this is a massively important issue for those in washington. a massively important issue for those of us covering it. when you go out on the trail, right? she just said it. at a recent town hall, she and beto o'rourke, of the 75 questions they were asked, only two were about this.
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it is important for our rule of law but it doesn't seem to be a priority yet for the american people. so what happens tomorrow? >> we're now talking about the investigation. what is good for trump and his team, for his campaign. you can see in the approach, the overall strategy. to interpret questions as narrowly as possible. to answer them with the fewest amount of facts. to talk about the cost of the investigation but not the underlying instances of wrongdoing and bad behavior that mueller had documented. that will push all of this into a partisan dog fight. very hard to keep the public focused on the underlying things revealed. and you were talking will about accountability. i think a lot of that is dead. this is a power struggle pure and simple. if bob barr that h a mission and it was a movie, it would be
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saving private donald. >> at the end of the day, we should put decency and the rule of law first. >> i want to put bill barr specifically being pressed on incidents of potential obstruction of justice. take a look. >> the report found that michael cohen's testimony, that the president repeatedly implied that cohen's family members had committed crimes. do you consider that evidence to be an attempt to convince a witness to change testimony? no. >> the report found after manafort was convicted, the president himself called him a brave man for refusing to break. >> yes. and that is not obstruction. >> joyce, what is your reaction? eric holder said on twitter, donald trump would absolutely be charged with obstruction had it
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not been for a flawed restriction against indicting a sitting president. >> so i think every prurt has concluded that. donald trump would now be defendant donald trump. but leaving that aside, what is distressing about barr's testimony here, it is as though he is saying, you know, the only barrier, the only bar that a president has to clear is criminality. as long as the president's conduct isn't in outright criminal violation, then no harm, no foul. i think we're entitled to expect more. >> but did robert mueller say, i go all the way to the line but i hand it to you, congress. as corey booker said, we would like to get something done. >> i think bob mueller is
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operating in a world in which institutions have power and guard their own prerogatives. >> i'm not sure it is true anymore. he clearly wrote a road map to impeachment proceedings in his report. it is an open invitation to look at the evidence and say, if you think this is obstruction, it is up to you. it was always going to be about that. >> and he can't help that the system now warped. >> that's correct. i was fascinated watching bill barr talk about it both ways. it was my baby. in the same turn, he is attacking bob mueller. what he wanted was to let the president off the hook so he wouldn't have to. >> i think that's absolutely right. has the binary choice. the choice was, mueller was supposed to clear the president. mueller was supposed to clear the president. he didn't do that so bill barr
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had to. >> stay with me. we have a lot to cover. did business barr mislead congress? his answers are raising a lot of questions today. what does misleading exactly result in? we'll speak live to the congressman who put him on the spot. also, where exactly is bob mueller? new reporting tonight on when mueller might tell his side of the story. and nancy pelosi unveiling a top new stance against trump and what she calls his unconstitutional obstruction. you know what you're watching. this is "the beat." t.aces in am. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not.
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access netflix, prime video, youtube and more, all with the sound of your voice. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back to "the beat." bill barr now facing calls to resign. the attorney general under fire from democrats saying he deceived and purposefully misled congress to shield president trump. much of this centering around a moment at a hearing last month when congressman charlie crist confronted bill barr. >> reports have emerged recently that members of the special counsel's team are frustrated at some level with the limited information included in your march 24th her. that it does not portray the
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court's findings. do you know what they're referencing with that? >> no, i don't. >> i don't? for real? democrats are saying that answer looks more and more suspect after mueller's letter to barr has emerged saying the four-page summary did not fully capture the spoup's work and conclusions. here is barr unfire today. >> i cannot imagine you receive that letter on march 24th and could not answer congressman crist directly when he asked you whether there were concerns about representations being made. >> my understanding was his concern was not the accuracy of the statement of the findings in my letter. but that he wanted more to find additional context. >> joining me now, democratic congressman charlie crist. your reaction to barr's answer on your question from last
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month. when it sure seemed like he didn't know anything back then. >> it's remarkable. it really is. when you take into account that when i ask those questions, back on april 9th, the attorney general knew that he had received a letter from bob mueller. i did not. i was innocently asking the question based on some news accounts that had reflected that mueller's team had been frustrated or concerned about the summary that had been put out by the attorney general in his four-page letter. and so when i asked him if he had any insight, or any idea what they were reflecting upon, he said no, i don't. that's not the truth. he had this letter. bob mueller sent it to him. he received on it march 28th, i believe. and the fact that he would say that to us, and then sort of double down on it the very next day to the senate appropriations
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committee for senator van holin of maryland, it is incomprehensive that the attorney general of the united states of america would misrepresent himself so much before the united states congress is that in essence, what he's doing is he's lying to the american people. that's beyond disappointing. it is unconscionable. >> it is beyond dispoings. if he lied to congress and the american people, and there are no tangible consequences, isn't the biggest risk that here we are in 2019 and it is a big so what? >> it is not a big so what to the people who watched it and missed it. it erodes the confidence in the office of the attorney general, the justice department to have the chief legal officer of the united states of manager being untruthful to congress. i used to be an attorney general for the state of florida. the third largest state in the country. and i understood the role.
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and i think you're held to a higher standard. and it seems to me that mr. barr doesn't appreciate or understand that. the people expect honesty, trustworthiness, transparency, particularly when it comes to the highest legal office in the land. and he just failed on all three fronts. >> i'm not sure he was speaking or performing or answering for the people. he seemed to be doing it for an audience of one. president trump. and i'm guessing president trump was happy with barr's performance today. do you believe he should resign? >> i do. as in, you know, acting, i agree with you, senator booker said before, he doesn't seem to understand the distinction of the role he has. amazing. he was the attorney general before. but he's acting as though he is the personal attorney for the president. the attorney general is the attorney for all the people of our country. and that's why he should resign. he doesn't understand the role and he's not acting
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appropriately. >> but he is not naive. he knows exactly how to do the job. so we need wonder, why isn't he doing it? please stay with me. i want to get to that moment that you just referenced from a hearing back in april. >> did bob mueller support your conclusion? >> i don't know whether bob mueller supported my conclusion. >> he did know. because he had mueller's letter. he had spoken to him on the phone. joining me now, the former federal prosecutor, john flannery. what do you make of that? he had this exact job. >> well, i think the mistake is assuming the essence of the man was so good and then trying on squeeze everything he's done that's bad into a foregone conclusion that he's a good man. i don't believe as he good man and there are things in his history that suggest that. his performance today was a shame and a disgrace. i could not say i believe more
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strongly on what congressman crist said. that he's failing the country. he's supposed to be the top law enforcement officer. and it is very interesting. that quote that you had from the crist interview, he says no, i don't know. but then right after that, he says, i suspect that they probably wanted more put out. but in my view, i was not putting out summaries, or trying to summarize. he says that despite the fact what started this was his march 24th letter. on the second page he says below, i summarize the principal conclusion set out in the special counsel's report. and too many people have overlooked this, as far as i can tell today. other content in mueller's letter. mueller said, we had a meeting on march 5th. he said they met on the afternoon of the 24th, the sunday that letter came out. what was that conversation about? and pep they discussed the introductions and executive
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summaries of our two volume report. mr. barr to put out. he didn't put him out because it didn't serve their purpose. his purpose was the deal he had with trump which was to protect him and to wipe away the entire investigation. and the rest of that interview by mr. crist, i should say, hearing, if you look at it. there is a whole series of things that are that like he doesn't know what exoneration means. this esteemed lawyer, thought so highly by so many, doesn't know what exoneration means. he missed the whole point. mueller couldn't say whether or not he said he committed a crime. that he said because of the olc, office of legal counsel memo. what could he do? he did not want to say even if we can't prosecute him, he committed a crime. so he handed it to congress without pre derrelling how they is habul it but said he couldn't exonerate him. so his suggestion was this is worth your consideration. these ten instance that's i'm
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telling you are obstruction of justice. kids on the street know this president is a shame and a disgraceful resignation, impeachment, or prosecution, doesn't seem out of balance. out of consideration given his conduct, today and before this. >> ten instances. one of which was the president asking corey lewandowski, a private citizen, to take action and fire the attorney general. just get your head around that. congressman, judge napolitano on fox news said he didn't think bill barr lied to congress. he just misled congress. help me understand what the difference is between two. >> it's a distinction without a difference. they're the same thing. misleading, being untruthful, lying, whatever you want to call it. it is not being honest. not being transparent. not being appropriate with the american people.
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and when you're before congress, it is not so important how they comport themselves to us and my colleagues. through us, they're representatives, their senators, they're communicating with the american people. we're asking questions on behalf of the american people to get to the truth of what that here. so when i asked the question, did you realize why there may have been concerns for mueller's team. and then he said, i thought he was asking, meaning me, about the team members of mueller's investigation he's the quarterback of the team. so to try to distance himself and take it out of that context, that was shocking. one of shakespeare's characters, he tells, i think they wanted
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their summaries which is precisely what's in that letter. so he knew exactly what they were talking about. >> thank you both so much. whether it is misleading or lying. the first sunday after president trump was inaugurated. it was kellyanne conway on "meet the press" saying no, they're just alternative facts. alternative facts and misleading are also known as lying. ahead, chairman nadler working on a date. we have new reporting on that. first, the barr revelation has speaker pelosi ratcheting up the rhetoric on stone walling. we'll be back with that in 30 seconds. do not move. 30 seconds. do not move.
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pelosi who has tamped down impeachment talk in recent weeks, is accepting a blistering new message this evening. accusing trump of stone walling congressional probes, calling his actions unprecedented, unwarranted, unconstitutional, saying they form a growing pattern of obstruction. that the only thing congress can do to prevent the rise of a tirnlt. pelosi writing that all this before bill barr announced his refusal to testify before the house judiciary committee. that refusal only adding fuel to the fire for democrats.
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>> it is not optional. the next step is seeking a citation against the attorney general. he is trying to blackmail the committee into not following the most effective means of soliciting the information we need. and congress cannot permit the executive branch, the administration to dictate to congress how we operate. and the vice chair of the party and former new york counsel speaker. thank goodness we have two women here to solve this. take us out of washington and to the can i haven table. so when people are eating dinner and they say what happened today and what is supposed to happen
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tomorrow, what are people to think? >> they're sitting around the dining room table is, the government is a mess the government doesn't know lying from telling truth. if they're so messed up in this cover up, how is anybody worried about having money to pay for the food we just ate. what i worry about is how deeply is this eroding the public's confidence and believe in government as a whole. >> today to bring up hillary clinton, they know a new investigation isn't going to get launched. but exactly to her point. the people watching at home just start to say, they all stink. i can't stand this government. >> that's a sad reality. i think i would encourage everyone watching to go to
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audible and download the free audio book. if you don't have time on read the 448 pages -- >> like the chair of the committee. or the attorney general based on his testimony today. you as a citizen need to know what's in it. >> i think hillary clinton should read it and it should be a podcast. >> yeah. she should do the audio book. >> i was reading on it a plane with no wi-fi. we're all thinking about our responsibilities and our bills and all of that. as i read it. as an american citizen, i could not help but get word cheateding out of my head. volume i, is the trump campaign cheating. and volume ii, all the steps donald trump took to cover up the fact that they cheated in the election. i think as an american voter, that's something that gives me incredible pause because it is not something that should go without any accountability. and this was the process through which, one of the processes, we
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were supposed to get more information, transparency, accountability, we can't let this happen again. >> did you read on it a plane because you know you can't jump out the window of the plane? >> no, no. we were a little delayed and i down loaded it. >> do you believe nancy pelosi has changed her position? i want to share what she said a couple weeks ago. >> i think it is one of the most divisive forces, path that's we could go down in our country. but if it is where fact finding takes us there, we have no choice. we're not there yet. impeachment is a step that you have to take, bringing the american people with you.
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>> she's in a tricky position. >> if you hear what she's saying in that clip, she's saying we have to see where it goes. >> it has gotten worse. i think it is very relevant. you know, when she made that comment, she didn't have the attorney general saying, i'm not going to come to congress and testify thumbing its nose at the house of representatives. she did not have that information. so i think it is an enormous issue. remember, impeachment is a political act and that can't be forgotten. let's not forget that if you were to look at watergate, almost days or weeks before things fully fell apart and the president had to resign, very
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few americans believed that he should be impeached. not so different than where we are today. >> so before we go, is nancy pelosi playing smart politics against the president? just yesterday she and chuck schumer were at the white house, shook hands with the president and said we had a very productive meeting and agreed on a $2 billion infrastructure package on the same day when nick mulvany is saying, yeah, that probably won't happen. and we heard the same thing from mitch mcconnell. when the president says, they're just obstruction i haves. they want to focus on this witch hunt. we're going to agree on an infrastructure package. what are republicans going to do? >> women know how to multitask. >> we have no choice. >> that's part of what she's doing. she's doing her job as speaker in the democratic party and trying to do things for the american people while she is essentially opening the door for impeachment. i think whether or not you agree
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today we should start the proceedings, he is definitely leading us down that path. the things that they have done since the report became public, the redactive report, have pushed us closer to that being the inevitable conclusion of this drama. because he's obstructing today. they're obstructing today. the fact that they won't come and testify. he's saying i'm not giving any documents. i don't care about your subpoena. we're in a dangerous moment. i think people have overused the words constitutional crisis but this is it. this is what it looks like. there is not a lever, or a mechanism to hold another branch of government accountable. we don't know what to do in this moment and that's a crisis. as a voter, read the report. we all need to have the information so we can make informed digs at the ballot box to potentially vote some of these republicans out. yes, a political conversation. but they also have to have a loyalty to the country and their oath of office. and they're not doing that.
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we skip over them like they don't have a responsibility and they do. >> i want to say, thank god for nancy pelosi and she is the bomb. >> the bomb. see? i just told you, leave it to the ladies. they have all the answers. thank you both so much. ahead, it is bill barr versus bob moueller. long time colleagues, possibly friends, and now they're at odds. new reporting on mueller possibly testifying. i have a sinking feeling he wants to. ng he wants to it's not just easy. it's having-a-walrus-in-goal easy! roooaaaar! it's a walrus! ridiculous! yes! nice save, big guy! good job duncan! way to go! [chanting] it's not just easy. it's geico easy. oh, duncan. stay up. no sleepies.
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saying he's hook at may 15th for robert mueller to testify before his committee but nothing is firm yet. in the meantime, bill barr is refusing to testify before the committee tomorrow after telling the senate today, the mueller report is his baby. not mueller's.
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>> bob mueller is the equivalent of a u.s. attorney. his work concluded when he sent his report to the attorney general. at that point, it was my baby. >> baby. it is now bill versus barr. it is extraordinary. the former colleagues, barr's first tenure as attorney general in the 1990s overlapped with mueller's tenure as assistant attorney general for the criminal division. now he could be playing with fire, mueller earned a purple heart in vietnam and he says the four-page letter caused public confusion. today barr took every opportunity to throw shade at robert mueller. >> a career prosecutor rebuking the attorney general of the united states, memorializing in writing, right? i know of no other instance of that happening. do you? >> i don't consider bob at this
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staining a career prosecutor. >> the letter is a bit snitty and i think it was probably written by one of his staff people. >> he doesn't consider him a hi career prosecutor. joyce vance from alabama and number from the "new york times." jerry nadler saying they are in talks for may 15th. that's great, but do you buy it. jerry nadler is with a subpoena and a deadline. >> mueller appears to be a federal employee so doj despite assurances could decide to you pull the plug on that. when mueller is a private citizen, he has more sat tude, but he will still be prohibited from disclosing grand jury or classified information and i think we will hear a lot about mueller saying well, you know
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that's presented in the report. i wouldn't expect to see a lot more. >> for mueller wanted to testify, couldn't he terminate his employment and show up? you have bob mueller -- excuse me, you have bill bar, calling the letter snity and taking japes. if you are bob mueller, don't you want to show up? >> he's an institutionalist and one thing is clear. the letter he sent in march days after barr mischaracterized his findings was a damning letter. you don't go to paper on things like this. and you don't question the legal officer of the united states. what's what bob mueller did. the letter speaks for itself. he said what i support you, the summaries should be's leased at this time. what did bill barr do? he took three weeks to go to the summaries and go to the rest of
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his report. the public was confused. congress didn't have the informs and mueller and his team we saw a leak or a report saying we are not happy with the way bill barr has been spinning this. let's set the record straight. >> an fbi chief and the atlantic said the dynamic is between the boy scout, mueller, and a street thug, barr. >> this is such an unusual relationship. in spite of the justice department, boy scouts and street fighters. it takes all kinds to have one of the people go and put down on paper to make book on the attorney general of the united states because you have concerns about the action he's taking. that i think speak tos to a break down and a mismatch between the two of them. >> barr said if mueller knew he
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was not going to make a call, he should have stopped the investigation. are more people thinking that. >> just barr. >> maybe giuliani and the president. >> that's true. he rejects wholesale the theory of obstruction, which is very limited and hungry and deferential and the power to control and shut down investigations. mueller doesn't buy that. he believes if you have a corrupt intent, you should be subject to no man is above the law. he said there is a constitutional clash between barr and mueller. barr is a bit hurt that this under link is going against his constitutional thinking. these dinosaurs don't like to be contradicted and that's what mueller did and i don't think barr is too happy with that. >> lindsey graham said he sees
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no need to call mueller. >> certainly the house can call him to testify and that's where whachs it's so happy that we will hear him. bill barr brings issues to the table and talks about his issues of phone calls with his issues with mueller and increasingly people will want to hear from mueller and we may see him in the senate before this is over. >> he calls the report his baby. a 400 page report that covers the 2016 campaign in foreign interference. doesn't seem like anyone's baby. we'll be right back with a note on this very big night on msnbc. if you are planning to going out to dinnero seeing a movie, cancel. invite everyone you know and stay right here. one you know and stay right here. do your sneezes turn heads? ♪
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a on. >> power yourself a drink and order dinner and put your kids to bed early. we have a huge night in the next hour. 2020 candidate and kamala harris who ripped into bill barr will be joining chris matthews on "hardball" and at 8:00 p.m., another 2020 contender. kirstin gillibrand joins chris hays on all in, and at 8:00 p.m., the only person on wheerth re earth who read the mueller report more carefully.
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hillary clinton will join rachel matto. adam schiff joins lawrence o'donnell. he said barr should never have gotten the job. he got the job and now what are democrats going to do about it. i hand you off to my friend and colleague. chris matthews with "hardball" start now. >> water fight. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. in an own senate hearing, william barr walked into a mine field set by last night's revelation that he had and undermined the report of robert mueller. perhaps because of it, the attorney general is

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