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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  May 7, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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head to head in the full fire of the 2020 general election. no way to know now. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> we took an oath not to protect donald trump. we took an oath to protect and serve the constitution. "avatar" mitch mcconnell tries to end investigations of the president and elizabeth warren persists. >> the way we do that is begin impeachment proceedings now against this president. >> tonight senator elizabeth warren on her resounding call for impeachment on the senate floor. plus, the leader of democrats in the senate, chuck schumer on the strategy for republican obstruction. >> of course he wants to move o. he wants to cover up. >> senator chris murphy on the trump administration's escalation with iran. john tester on the growing fears
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of a fult blown trade war with china. all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a big night of breaking news. we will be joined by four different u.s. senators. elizabeth warren, chris murphy, john tester and chuck schumer will all join me tonight. we also have breaking news moments ago from the "new york times" about president trump's massive and mean truly staggering financial losses as a business man. first, the president and his administration are currently attempting to destroy the capacity of congress to do what it needs to do to preserve american checks and balances. think of it this way. in the chick of watergate, they had the majority newscast senate, we are going to power through and they backed the president when they said no, you are not turning over the tapes and no, no, no. that's akin to where we are
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headed right now. the nixon administration fell apart because political support from republicans evaporated. if they stayed there, this is what it would have looked like. the trump administration is testing the fence. they are poking and prodding to see what they can get away with and keep pushing on everything until something stops them. plain as day, black and white and text under a statute passed under a tremendous corruption scandal and the trump administration is currently refusing to hand over the president's tax returns and making this weird too clever by half assertion that conmcgahn can't comply with the subpoena and blowing off a formal subpoena to turn over the full un redacted mueller report and blocking muller from testifying as well. all in all, it amounts to nothing short of a full-scale assault on congress neent instigate a conclusistitutional
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congress where by he can route his competing power. republican members of congress are coconspirators in all of this and working to destroy their own branch of government from the inside. senate majority leader got up and declared the russia investigation case close and while he was saying that, facebook was delisting more russian troll who is just coincidently pumping up the latest theory about joe biden that is being pushed by rudy giuliani. the same time, chris wray is saying the divisiveness has been fairly unique to the russians. this all while the president in front of all of us sends wet air kisses to vladimir putin. out in the open again. are democrats up to the moment to meet constitutional fire with constitutional fire. as a fundamental principal question about the nature of the american republic.
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one of the few democrats who has been calling to meet trump head on is elizabeth warren. read from the mueller report for 40 minutes and saying this is it, guys. >> if any other human being in this country has done what's documents in the mueller report, they would be arrested and put in jail. the majority leader doesn't want us to consider the mountain of evidence against the president. that is wrong. this is not a fight i wanted to take on, but this is the fight in front of us now. this is not about politics. this is about the constitution of the united states of america. we took an oath not to try to protect donald trump. we took an oath to protect and serve the constitution of the united states of america and the way we do that is begin
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impeachment proceedings now against this president. >> senator elizabeth warren, democrat from massachusetts and 2020 candidate joins me now. you spent about 40 minutes on the floor of the senate reading portions of the mueller report. why did you do that? >> i didn't wake up this morning saying let's go to the floor and talk about the mueller report, but let's keep in mind, mitch mcconnell just kept saying no, no, no. everything is over. case closed. we're done. no. we're not. when the rupt came out. into the night and the wee hours of the morning and the next day. after i finished, 448 pages, i realized three things that were unmistakable in that report. part one, a hostile foreign government attacked the elections in order to help donald trump get elected. part two, donald trump as a
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candidate welcomed that help. when our federal government tried to investigate period of times one and two, donald trump did everything he could to derail, push aside, and otherwise obstruct that investigation. mueller makes these facts absolutely clear in his report. it is pretty clear when you read it that the only reason as i read it he did not bring an indictment because he clearly has all the facts, he was following the justice differently trump administration saying a sitting president cannot be criminally indicted. he served up on a silver platter all of the facts to the united states congress. in a constitutional system with checks ands balances, it's up to congress to make sure that the president is not above the law.
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so when mitch mcconnell today took to the floor and said case over, case over. we're done. no. we are not. no. it's time to stand up and say so. >> here's my question. in terms of what next, there is this very intense debate happening and you can see it happening publicly and almost agonizing fashion with your colleagues in the house about what to do. what are the next steps? you have said impeachment proceedings should begin. >> yes. >> what about people who say that's politically dangerous and public opinion is 56 to 38 opposed and you are walking into a trap. >> there is no political convenience exception to the constitution of the united states of america. some things are bigger than politics. this is a point of principal. if the united states congress fails to step up when they have been handed facts like the facts
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handed to us in the mueller report, that changes the relationship between the president and the congress not just for now, but for the next president and the next president and the next president. >> i wonder, too, you are someone who has studied, written about, looked at the ways in which people in institutions in power can get away with a lot and not be held accountable. we saw this happen with financial institutions and something you documented that has been on your work. i wonder if you see a connection between that and what we are faced with now as a country. >> absolutely. because this really is about accountability. the constitution of the united states provided for separation of powers so that congress just to use the words, could hold the president accountable if he did something like this. obstructed justice.
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the facts in front of us in the mueller report are clear. more than 600 federal prosecutors. republicans and democrats and people from urban areas and rural areas. people from all across the country looked at this and said if he were anyone other than president of the united states, what is shown in the mueller report is enough for a criminal indictment. that comes to congress. we can't play politics here. we have to step up and say the president is accountable. no more. can't do this. >> some take the view and believe amy klobuchar and she was on my program talking about this that because of the way impeachment works, it's a majority vote in the house and goes to the senate for removal. the house is like an indictment and the senate is a jury. as such, should sort of stay arm's length from making determinations on the merits
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about the president's conduct. are you out ahead of things if you are saying impeachment proceedings should begin? >> it should begin in the house. that's that's what's provided under the constitution. we have to stand up and ring the bell. say read the mueller report. i don't care if you are democrat or republican. read the mueller report on obstruction. as the more than 600 prosecutors said, there it is. the indictment is right in front of us. mueller made clear that all of the elements are there for obstruction. criminal obstruction in multiple incidences. congress cannot cover its ears and close its eyes and pretend this isn't happening. this is not about politics. this is about principal. this is about what kind of a country we are. we swore not just to protect
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donald trump. we swore to protect the constitution of the united states of america. that's what is called for here. >> final question. you talked to mitch mcconnell on the floor today. there is a widespread view that i think is probably correct. there is no way there is 66 votes in the body with the republican to remove the president. as such, that's a political given. going through the motions is a waste. what do you say to that? >> i don't see it that way at all. i think we should have the impeachment proceeding and assuming the house votes for impeachment and sends it to the senate, every single person in congress, house and senate, should be required to look at the evidence in front of us and declare. you think that's okay for a president of the united states or you don't take that vote and live with that vote for the rest of your life. >> elizabeth warren from
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massachusetts. thanks for making time tonight. >> neal katyal is former attorney general under president obama who helped write the special counsel regulations. i want to start broadly. there are fights between the branches all the time and invocations over executive privilege and what can and can't be requested over scheduling. what is happening right now in a broader sense in the spectrum of normal to extreme showdowns on the matters? >> this is extreme. it's all getting lumped together under one thing. trump is stonewalling and not providing his tax returns and not providing the mueller report to be released and maybe voted on by contempt tomorrow and now saying the white house counsel may invoke executive privilege to prevent the documents from coming out. all taken together, this is a guy who is really trying to hide
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a lot of stuff. i know it's popular to blame mcgahn or barr or people like that, but it all stems from the top. >> let's talk about mcgahn. it's unclear to me. if congress wants to talk to don mcgahn, he is no longer in the white house. he's a private citizen. if it's about things he had to talk to the president about, there might be an executive privilege about, what are they asserting and what does it mean? >> executive privilege is the idea that there are sensitive communications involving foreign affairs or other things like that that shouldn't be divulged to the american public for all sorts of legitimate reasons. the problem is two-fold. the supreme court unanimously in the nixon tapes case said you can't invoke executive privilege to cover up wrong-doing. that seems like what's going on here. the second thing s privileges can be wave waived and mcgahn
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spent 30 hours testifying to all these things claiming executive privilege on monday and can release documents on monday and on tuesday, claim executive privilege. it doesn't work that way. that's why i think most people think this is a dubious strategy and what's really going on here is an attempt to try to delay things and delay the truth from coming out. we saw this most powerfully with what mitch mcconnell said. he was just talking about game over and so on. the mueller report said there is nothing there. with all respect to senator mcconnell, i read the report and i read the english version. the english version is very damning to the president. the russian translation may not be, but this one is. we know this because 700 plus former federal prosecutors have come out and said we read the
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mueller report and it shows that the president obstructed justice. >> there is a question to they would let robert mueller testify and now a question about whether he will. clearly they want him to testify in the house. they have not formally made an invitation. i don't understand his status. he is still the special counsel and doj can block him, but how long does that last? >> it's up to mueller. he can resign and doj has no authority over him as a former government employee, he can identify. there may be executive privilege that can try to be invoked. that's really the design of the special counsel regulations so we wanted someone from outside the justice department of sufficient stature. they would feel free if they were being squelched and not able to come out because of white house or attorney general orders and a fail safe mechanism for him to go to think and for
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them to testify. attorney general barr testified a couple of times that he wants mueller to testify and had no objection. i take the man at his word. mueller should testify. >> they are scheduled to take a vote on contempt of congress for william barr after negotiations today. how big of a deal is that? does it matter? >> it's a sad day that the attorney general of the united states may be being held in contempt. one could blame barr for that, but again this goes back to the root fundamental kpcause. he is trying to obstruct it from coming out all together. all of these problems can be traced back to the simple thing. >> neal katyal, thank you very much. we have still much more to come tonight, including senate minority leader chuck schumer
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and breaking news about exclusively obtained tax figures about the president of the president trump. what they reveal about trump the businessman. what they reveal about trump the businessman. nutrition can seem overwhelmin. even if you try to eat well, you might fall short in key nutrients. get more by adding one a day. it's the #1 multivitamin uniquely designed for men and women. one serving, once a day. one a day. and done.
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>> top line of this story. >> it's just astonishing. this report is from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. 1987 is the year that donald trump publishes the art of the deal and really establishes his myth as a deal maker. a guy with an amazing nose for business. a guy who knows how to succeed in business. in fact, he was losing on average we learned from this report, $100 million a year. the number is so staggering, i can't fathom how to lose that much money in a year. >> in 1990 and 1991, he loses a quarter of a billion a year and were more than double of the nearest taxpayer. he lost twice as much money than
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any other person in the united states. >> it'sa astonishing. this is a guy with a lot of money to learn and a lot of passing interest. he's into stock investing and buying the plaza hotel and moves from thing to thing to thing. >> and all failing. >> they are all failing perhaps because he doesn't take the time to really learn one of the businesses. >> this appears to be a key point. there is a period in the mid 90s where he is bankrupt. this is not during that period. this is at the peak donald trump is the image of the go-go roaring apes. >> the coast of the town, going out with women and making a lot of money. exactly. the 1980s money man. buying casinos and losing a ton of money. for me what it under lines is
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when you are playing in that tier, when you have that much money to burn and so heavily invested in real estate, your taxes look different from the rest of us. you and i couldn't lose that money and have a roof over our heads. b because of the peculiarities, he was able to lose money and at times he had to let go of assets and his jet and hisua yacht. he remained a rich man and has been his entire life. >> one thing this builds on is, the extent to which he is just a guy spending daddy's money. and daddy's inheritance and leaning on daddy and getting bailed out by daddy over and over and over again. this compared with the last investigation, that becomes undeniable. he is just a charity case for his old man.
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>> let us not forget that he downplayed the role of daddy in the art of the deal. it's an enjoyable read, actually, but daddy makes only a small appearance there. fred trump was developing low income housing in brooklyn and queens and stayed with that business for decaaddecades. donald trump has a pile of cash and goes from thing to thing to thing to thing burning it and staying in business. he was able to use those losses on his future tax returns, write those down. it really -- let's pause on the signature achievement is a tax overhaul. a tax overhaul that favored the real estate industry. it's one of those makes you think kind of moments. it was written in congress, but signed by the president. >> thank you for your time. >> you're welcome. >> senator chris murphy on the
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military intervention in two countries and why it raises the specter of the beginnings of the iraq war, after this. beginninge iraq war, after this strange forces at work? only if you're referring to gravity-and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ my body is truly powerful. i have the power to lower my blood sugar and a1c. because i can still make my own insulin. and trulicity activates my body to release it like it's supposed to. trulicity is for people with type 2 diabetes. it's not insulin. i take it once a week. it starts acting in my body from the first dose. trulicity isn't for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it,
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so i came today to be very clear. the united states of america will continue to exert all diplomatic and economic pressure to bring about a peaceful transition of democracy in venezuela. to those who continue to oppress the good people of venezuela, know this. all options are on the table. vice president making his best tough guy face as the pentagon reportedly prepares for a possible military intervention
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in venezuela, following the failed coup attempt last week. at the same time the administration is ramping up efforts to oust the maduro regime and provoke or justify conflict with iran. one year since the president pulled the u.s. out of the iran nuclear deal they were not violating according to the u.s., the president threatening some kind of military action sending b-52 bombers and aircraft to the region. the reason? opaque leaked to the press. that sounds unnervingly familiar with john bolton who was there during the time, running the show from the white house and snow senate-confirmed leader from the pentagon. hey, everybody, we are at war in three different countries. iraq, afghanistan and venezuela. we haven't had a secretary of defense for five months. all caps. chris murphy is a member of the
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senate foreign relations senate judiciary committee joins me now. let's start with iran. what's going on and do you understand what they are doing? >> there are rumors that they started the nuclear program and no way to rationalize that violation of international law. it was entirely predictable. we signed an agreement with the iranians in which they agreed to forsake the program and we were the party that violated that agreement. it stands to reason they would back out as well. we have also upped the ante by naming essentially the most significant units of the army as a terrorist organization. that our military leaders have been begging the president not to do because they worry that will result in a tax on our troops and it really doesn't get us much, but gives iran more reason to back out of the nuclear agreement. we seem to be engaged in a series of actions with no end
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game. there is no realistic diplomatic process that is going to spring forward from this and no willingness in the united states to support military action. it seems that it's the escalation for a plan for how it ends. >> there is no op sight in the congress for authorizing it. will they even come to you? this is jim rich. they said they are on the table and declined to say if they approved of any new conflict. >> no question that the president cannot engage in preemptive military action against iran or any other country without coming to congress. our worry is that there is a pretext that is created. maybe there is a firefight between iranian li littias and troops in iraq that is a pretext for a military confrontation
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that all of a sudden spills into war. and of course there are plenty of reports suggesting that john bolton has been itching for the war with iran for a very, very long time. it's worrying to me that the high level republicans seemed to suggest that you may not have to come to congress to enter into an engagement like that. republicans need to speak up. if they contemplate congress. >> there is a lot going on right now. as you know, so just a few quick things. one is trump's taxes for 10 years in the "new york times" showing him losing a massive amount of money. that's neither here nor there for him, but i'm curious what you think about just saying to a fully lawful request from your colleagues in the house to go climb a tree.
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>> they have no legal justification to refuse to present tax returns to the united states congress. the law is clear on this and ultimately the courts will force the records to be turned over. while i'm not sure the american public really cares to get deep into the details of the president's 1980 to 1990 tax returns, it does speak to the fact that he has been a fraud for a very, very long time. i think from a political standpoint, democrats would be more well served that he has been and always will be economic fraud. he lies about his wealth and if we want to bring an economic argument to 2020 focussing on the fraudulent nature of his business and the fact that he lied about the nature of his business is not a bad way to go. >> since i have you here and this happened today and want to ask you about it. there was a school shooting today in colorado. images that are unbearable to
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watch. these are young children i believe in middle school. there were eight students shot. it appears no fatalities. we don't have a lot of details, but pictures of children and students in the united states of america evacuating on the streets because of gun violence. what do you think and feel? >> i'll send my first grader and fourth grader off to school tomorrow morning and once again, this spring they will go through an active shooter drill and millions of parents all across the country no longer can hide from this epidemic because there is a trauma that exists in every school when kids fear for their safety regardless of whether they are shot or not. the reason why we would be a rated members of congress in 2018 is because there is nowhere to hide and ultimately the 90% of americans that want political change to happen on the issue of guns will win out and regrettably because of the
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scenes that you are just playing. they are all too regularized across the country. >> final question. elizabeth warren was my guest at the top of the program. got up on the floor of the senate saying impeachment proceedings begin. do you begin? >> i want to see the full mueller report. >> you saw the lightly redacted version. >> i haven't seen big sections. i haven't called on the house to begin impeachment proceedings. i want to give the legal process and judiciary proceedings time to get me the full report. i admit i am not there and want more information. >> senator chris murphy, a great person to talk to even on an extremely crazy news day. >> thanks, chris. senate minority leader, chuck schumer. a man running on the democratic response. his response the majority leader declaring case closed. senator schumer joins me next.
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do you think the president is trying to lure democrats into a trap and wants you to impeach him? >> every day he as a different
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strategy. both he and leader mcconnell fear the full results of the report being made clear to the public. the fact that he so often obstructed justice. the fact that the russians did interfere repeatedly and strenuously in our elections, all of which prove donald trump being wrong and what leader mcconnell did today on the floor was nothing short of despicable to say it's over, case closed, when we haven't even begun to investigate the report and mueller hasn't testified and mueller knows what the report said and not barr's spin. to not see the underlying documentation and how deeply russia affected things. for mcconnell and trump to do this is despicable. let me say this about leader connell. when a foreign country interferes in our elections, it will help president trump and trump is probably pushing him to be quiet, but it's much deeper
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than that. with the russians's ultimate goal, americans noing longer have faith at the democracy and could actually topple the mighty oak. for mcconnell run away. he has done a lot of very, very bad things, but this is one of the most despicable. we have an obligation to see it and stop it. we have bipartisan bills to go forward by amy klobuchar and kamala harris that would stop it. he won't even let there be a debate on them. that's a disgrace. >> am i right? the leader has kind of slowly but surely and totally transformed the body you work in. you essentially are a judicial nominating body and the leader just doesn't -- that's stuff
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that is not hugely controversial. what happened to the u.s. senate? >> he made it into a legislative grave yard. the house passed so many good things and mcconnell won't bring them up for debate. what is supposed to be the grandest debating institution in the world, we don't have debates. we rubber stamp appointments largely right wing, largely unqualified and for instance, this week we will not debate a single piece of legislation and there is so much to do. look what happened in colorado. the house has a bill with the support of about 90% of the american people, universal background checks. fear of the nra, he doesn't bring it up. we have the violence against women act to protect women when they are abused. he won't bring that up. proposals to protect americans from being -- when they have preexisting conditions their insurance companies can't take advantage of them.
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he won't bring that up. americans don't want a legislative grave yard, but i have never seen a leader do this. never. >> the real question, i think broad agreement on different strands and the coalition that the president is acting in ways that are provocative and run a foul of the balance of power between article one and article two branches. question about what the remedy is. elizabeth warren, your colleague said impeachment proceedings have to begin. we took an oath to defend the constitution and it doesn't matter what the polls say. do you agree and if not, why not? >> we have to let all the facts come out. that means mueller testifying. that's crucial for people to get the whole picture. we have to seen the underlying documentation, not just the report that mueller issued without we want to check because i don't believe barr redacted properly and appropriately. we need to see the underlying
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documentation and then everyone will look at everything over the next several months and make a decision. that is the best way to go. we need to convince the vast majority of the american people that there is impeachment if it's warranted by the facts. the nath the leader has chosen going strongly and getting all the facts out and making a decision on impeachment is the way to go. >> you have known donald trump a long time and probably as long as anyone that is sort of this amazing plot twist in all of your lives. did you ever think -- the man shows he's a fraud and a con man. high understand what brings him to heal. he is playing a power game with congress and doesn't care about niceties and norms and the law.
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they will not stop until something forces him to stop. >> one word. strength. donald trump in addition to the words you used and throw in clown, but he's a bully. if he senses weakness, he keeps going after you relentlessly. he has no compassion or humanity. if we show strength -- democrats acting sufficiently to send that signal to him so he understands that? >> if we relentlessly pursue getting all the facts of the mueller report and tax returns and all the terrible things he has done, it's a slow process, but he will feel more and more and more fenced in and that's where you have him. >> this is not a question about impeachment. it's a narrower question. has the president violated his oath of office? >> he has so undermined the constitution and the rule of law that he has violated what any
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president should be, absolutely. >> i think last week you and nancy pelosi took a trip over to the white house to talk about infrastructure. >> yeah. >> i want to stipulate i know politics is about compartmentization and you have done deals with all kinds of crazy figures you didn't like and that's part of the territory. i get that. do you understand why people look at that image and say we had a productive meeting and think you were on mars? >> here's the point here. first anything we do that might end up being constructively, it's not going to stop us from investigating the president and looking into the president and trying to make him come clean on all the facts. second, here is my credo. stick to your values. i told the president this can't be a tiny bill. it has to be huge. it has to be clean. clean energy. we are not going to do the typical bill wees had in the past. it has to deal with wind and solar and power and electric
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vehicles and charging facilities and battery storage. third, has to protect labor. we are not doing a bill that under mines labor. we need little class wages and fourth, we have to protect minorities and women and veterans to get a fair share. if you don't do those things, we will not do a bill. we will see where he comes out. to say no, you don't talk to him is not the right thing to do. to not be a cheap date and stick to your principals and the only bill we support is a strong robust bill with the principals i outline and others. not wrong with talking to him. will he get to that point? very unlikely. the american people will see on infrastructure like on so much else, he's a fraud. >> the cross roads we are at, is the president just a bad president in the normal bounds of bad presidents or abnormal in a way that is dangerous fundamentally to the basic tenets of the republic.
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if it's the latter, what do actions that take that seriously look like and are you doing them? >> the best way to do that is make sure we have the report. we helped push to get mueller appoint and to protect him and to get the facts out and see where that leads. you have a president who is the way he is, you have to be strong and focused, but you have to be pureeing forward step by step by step and have the walls close around him. i think that leader pelosi, particularly in the house is doing that. we have limited power in the senate and hopefully in the majority in 2021 and we can do the same. they are handling it well. >> i'm going to tee up a compliment for the president for you. we had the "new york times" 10 years of the president's taxes when he is running art of the deal and i'm a new yorker like yourself, grew up every day going to the bus stop with donald trump on the cover of the
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tabloids. it was all a fraud. the man managed to conhimself to being the president of the united states. he has to be the most successful con man in the world. >> the greatest worry i have is he is so despicable in how he governs and so little respect for honor and the norms and values that have made america great, how can so many people follow him? that is the one issue that eats at me. the others, i think if we did do our job, things will fall into line appropriately. trump will not win the presidency or won't last that long to get there if we do our job right. >> senator chuck schumer, fellow new yorker, pretty close to me. you are welcome to coming on the show any time. >> i enjoyed it. thank you very much. >> all the balance of the night as well as the growing fears the
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chinese trade envoy is heading to washington in advance of a friday deadline when the trump administration warns it will once again hike tariffs on $200 billion of additional chinese goods on top of the tariffs they have now. for their part the chinese are reportedly preparing, not surprising, possible retaliatory tariffs and it's hard to say the trade war thus far has been either good or easy to win, though we should also say its effects have been largely manageable, but among those who strik stri have taken it hardest on the chin are american farmers. according to the office of the u.s. trade representative, u.s. total exports of agricultural products to china totaled $9.3 billion in 2018 and less than half of what the u.s. exported just one year prior according to an archived version of the same data available online. democrat jon tester of montana is, himself, a farmer, one of only a handful in the senate. he joins me now to talk about trade and more, senator. good to have you.
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how -- how tangible have the effects been to farmers in your state, montana, in this trade war? >> well, i think it's going to become really, really serious over the next few months, chris, and i'll tell you why. we've been dealing with the impacts of the tariffs for some time. i think just about everybody in rural america agrees we need to hold china accountable. the problem is is now we're in planting season, planted a good portion of the country, and there's nothing worth much money at all. wheat prices might be a dollar higher than they were 41 years ago when my wife and i took over the farm. that point in time, i can tell you, 1978, you could buy a pickup for less than $10,000. now you're looking at five times that much for a pickup. >> wait, you're saying -- wait a second. actual nominal dollars, it's only a buck more now? >> that's correct. that's not inflation. >> wow. >> no, if i call up my elevator in big sandy, montana, right now, it's less than $4.50 a bushel.
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when i move ed out the farm may 1978, i talked to my neighbor about wheat being $3.a50 a bushel, i wanted a better price because that was too low. this is 21st century. we have people in production agriculture out there that are hurting. go talk to the bankers. they will tell you these guys are living by a thread. the margins aren't that wide enough in the best of times and now we're almost totally dependent on subsidies because the trade and the -- trade with other nations, foreign trade especially has been screwed up by these tariffs. one more thing, chris. a lot of these trade relationships have not been worked on for decades. they've been worked on for generations. quite frankly, to fritter them a away really puts a death nail into rural america. i'm very, very concerned we may see a repeat of the 1980s in the next few years if something doesn't change and change pretty darn fast with these tariffs. >> 1980s when the interest rates for foreclosures and family farms across the country and
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destroyed huge swaths of rural america. >> that's exactly right. we saw the little town that i was born and raised in go from 1,000 people down to 600 today. much of that was due to what happened with the mass exodus of the land in the 1980s. >> since i have you here, i don't get a chance to talk to you often. i do want to ask you about sort of broader things happening. this sort of constitutional showdown with the president that's developing. particularly in the house. you were just re-elected. you represent a state that's a conservative state. republican state, at least, in presidential elections. it has a democratic governor. how do you see this standoff? what do you think democrats should do? >> we got to get to the facts. get the information and autoinformatiautll the information. i believe in transparency in government. any time somebody stands up and says, no, we're not going to give that information, it happens almost all the time, i think there's something to be hidden there. whether there is or not, it appears something is being hidden. you take a look at the mueller
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report. i want the mueller report. i want the whole thing. i want the underlying documents. guess what, i want everybody in montana to have access to that, too. and everybody in the united states to have access. why? because it will set forth what really happened. what really transpired. the american people who are smart people, can make up the decision under who's right, who's wrong, and if anything is screwed up here. look, it's pretty obvious to me. the russians interfered in our election. think the report bears that out. i think our national intelligence agencies bear that out. let's let the mueller report speak for itself. as far as attorney general barr, he is the lawyer for the country, not for the president. he should step up and go to the house meetings and talk about what transpired, answer the questions and put this business to bed. >> do you -- is your estimation of him or the president changed over the last several weeks? >> well, with attorney general barr, it has. i mean, i was inches away for voting for his confirmation.
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when i met with him, i thought he was a straight-up guy. i'm glad it didn't happen. he certainly didn't step up to the plate like i thought he would and i think it's put -- you know, he was a very respected person as attorney general before. i think now his career is really -- it just -- he's going to be known for this now. not for any good work he did before. i think that's unfortunate, but it's of his own doing so you live with it. >> senator elizabeth warren was my guest earlier on the show. you saw her, i'm sure, that she was on the floor today. she talked about her desire that impeachment proceedings begin in the house. she says it's no political expediency exception in the united states constitution. do you agree with her? >> i think we got to get the facts. truthly, if you don't have all the facts as yoou move forward, as many facts as you possibly can, you're going to end up in a difficult position. it was interesting today because senator mcconnell got up and said this is over and elizabeth got up later and said we need to proceed with impeachment. i personally don't agree with either one.
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the route is get more information. if that information bears out we need to impeach, then move forward and do it. i think that quite frankly, in the senate, we have to have some help from the republicans if impeachment were to go through, anyway. so i think there's more facts that need to be presented and assuming those facts are there, we might be able to get republican support and move forward. >> final question for you, chuck schumer, not a question about impeachment proceedings, it's just a straightforward question about the president's oath of office. he took an oath of office to uphold the constitution, take care of laws that are faithfully executed. do you think he violated his oath? >> in my opinion, i'm not an attorney, i don't believe he's acted presidential since his time in the office. i don't think he's represented the best interests of this kun t country but represented the best interests of himself and that's very unfortunate. >> john test e a farmer as you heard, farmer first. senator second. think you would like to say. from the great state of montana. pleasure to have you on, senator. come back any time. all right? >> good to have visit with you,
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chris hayes. thank you. >> we got a new podcast today, tuesday is with pod day. this podcast is near and dear to my heart, the thing in politics that drives me the most insane which is deficit talk and the hysterical hyperbole around deficits. and the hypocrisy around deficits. we talked to an economist who's got a brand-new theory that's getting a lot more adherence, which basically says the government can spend whatever it wants, don't ask how it's going to pay for it. it will blow your mind. take a listen wherever you get your podcasts. that's "all in" for this evening. rachel maddow starts now. good evening, rachel. >> i hereby preemptive lly say anything that makes you crazy in politics makes me crazy, too. just by osmosis. you never get crazy about anything, my friend. >> i'm always cool as can be. >> sort of are. >> it's in segment meetings when i really lose it. >> i can hear those down the hall. i know that's true. thank you, my dear. much appreciate it. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. we're having eat one of tho