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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  May 17, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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we are a long ways away. >> david, karine and bill, thank you. a great friday. don't forget, a great american family. this book is well worth your time. we'll be back monday. if it's sunday it's "meet the press" on your local nbc station. bernie sanders joins me for an exclusive interview and i'll speak to cotom cotton. "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> we'll fact check the new claims about the mueller probe. and later barbara res on donald trump's fixation on settling scores. how that relates to policy making. and stunning comments as missouri passes one of the most restrictive abortion bans in the nation. we begin with breaking news on this friday night. donald trump's treasury secretary is now defying a
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congressional subpoena for donald trump's tax returns. you have been following the fight. here we go. the top democrat on the house committee in charge of the issue is saying, number one, steve mnuchin isn't in contempt this hour but democrats believe they could wage a court fight here to deliver a stinging rebuke to the trump administration on his taxes. meanwhile, washington is interpreting the new comments from bill barr who just did a fox news interview about pressure for bob mueller to finally testify. >> you're okay with him testifying? >> absolutely. >> what seems to be the hold-up? jerry nadler said it will happen soon. perhaps it happens in june or not. do you have any information on that? >> my understanding is that chairman nadler is talking this over with bob mueller and his staff and trying to schedule it. >> so you have expected it to happen. >> i have no reason to think it won't. >> barr makes it sound like a couple of people are just talking, scheduling, maybe google calendar invites and he's
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fine with whatever goes down. he's good at that. sounded like this was just a reasonable discussion. that was him in public. privately, there is new reporting that trump and barr's actions are the thing that might be holding up mr. mueller's testimony. it is stalling because of trump's executive privilege claim which was issued by barr to block congress from getting the full mueller report. this according to the "wall street journal" and all of it might restrict mueller from discussing details involving donald trump beyond what was released in the redacted report. the doj's office of legal counsel considering the issue now and expected to provide guidance. so privately barr's doj might stop mueller from effectively testifying and publicly he continues to claim he's fine with it, let them talk scheduling. congress would have plenty to ask mr. mueller about including new revelations from mike flynn saying trump's lawyer and someone connected to congress were in contact with flynn right in the middle of the probe in an
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effort to what they saw as to try to get him to stop cooperating. some of the details were in the mueller report as i mentioned last night. some aspects were not. those are the things democrats want to dig into in a potential hearing with mueller. >> do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> i do. >> that's a scene that many people are awaiting, if it happens. former federal prosecutor john flannery, special counsel to three congressional investigations and christina gear, professor at fordham. good friday evening. >> good evening. >> john, from what i know about you, you like the idea of what we saw on the screen, bob mueller putting a hand up. >> yes, i do. >> what do you make of the reporting that the executive privilege is an effort to prevent that or part of that? >> i believe it is. you know, one of my favorite quotes, one of my heroes, bob
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kennedy said when the going gets tough, the tough get going. why is mueller still in that department? why doesn't he leave? he's being beaten up for no good reason for his reputation or integrity. as for believing anything barr says, i'm not involved, well, he has a conflict from the beginning. one thing mueller can talk about is how in blazes he was excluded from the release of information and why he was resistant when he said this is not accurate. this doesn't represent the findings of my investigation. why hasn't this been resolved in a way that we as citizens know what really happened here? >> i think part of the answer may be that the democrats haven't figured out what they are going to do with what they call the stonewalling. you're a prosecutor, a litigator. >> right. >> you have to have plans b and c. there are clues on that which i want your analysis on tonight. the idea that demes would focus on bringing in mueller's aggressive deputies including
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aaron zebley and andrew wei weissman. they may feel less constraineded about criticizing trump. >> i agree. anybody working on the obstruction questions in the investigation would be an excellent witness. i also think we talk about mcgahn, but if we brought donaldson to the hill with her records we would be a long way down the road to having the details. if trump doesn't like notes he must hate her. >> professor? >> listen, what i respect about mueller and his team is that there were hardly any leaks during the process. so there are a lot of people who i think not only respected mueller as their boss, but they actually want to uphold the tenets of the constitution. there are a lot of people in washington, d.c. who were either nonpartisan or who were part of the republican party who recognized that what's happening
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under this president and his administration is borderline illegal. just not constitutional in a way we have seen before. as they move forward, if and when mueller testifies, i do think we have a long line of other people who actually are interested in upholding the constitution of the united states. >> right. and who we know are already outside of doj. >> yes. >> it's not clear they would have much mechanism to prevent it or you have the spectacle of them showing up to talk and the doj gagging them which would cut into barr's double talk saying, oh, i'm fine with it. eric holder said this is a serious thing. he's gone further in remarks this week than he had thus far. take a look. >> you compare what happened to me in connection with the fast and furious thing. we turned over 7,000 documents. we made people available to testify. barr, as you know, and the trump administration have put a line down and said we're not going to give you anything.
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we were responsive to congress. they were not. >> i think eric holder is in a position to actually speak on these things substantively. what worries me is this. the president is very effective in using the fourth branch of government which is the media. there are so many people, especially his base, but even republicans and independents who wouldn't necessarily call this a witch hunt, but it does seem like this is a neverending story. so there are lots of independents and some well-meaning republicans saying the question was asked and answered. did the democrats want the mueller report and they got it. is it sour grapes? the way the president is framing it is i'm completely absolved and they keep making up stories about me. that's not what the mueller report says. when you have summaries based on bill barr's interpretation and we know bill barr works directly for the president and not the american constitution or the citizens of the united states of america we have a fundamental
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problem. but the disconnect with the vast majority -- with a significant number of americans who think that this is a story that should and could go away but it cannot because, as i said to you a million times before, as george washington warned us in his farewell address we can never have a president influenced by a foreign force. and we can assume there is something going on with this president and an foreign force. >> didn't george washington also run a restaurant? >> and wore the teeth of the enslaved. >> so many things. we learn from your knowledge of history. we are not leaving yet. we'll trade a bow tie for a necktie. mr. flannery, we appreciate you kicking off a friday night with us. don't go anywhere. i'm adding here in new york, the former executive editor for the
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"new york times." good to have you join us. >> thank you. i wanted to bring you in specifically after we go through the law which we did with mr. flannery to the point that actually christina teed up which is the way that the intersection of the law and the communicators and mr. barr had at least for a time really spun washington and the east coast media on its head about what was in the report. what do you think of how mr. barr is doing as he now ventures out to fox news and makes the case that this is a witch hunt. >> you have to look at the trump team. this is a team of eccentrics compared to past administrations. attorney general barr, secretary pompeo, john bolton, they are all people at the edges of what washington traditionally considers professionalism. in addition to that, we are in a
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dangerous position having two amateurs in diplomacy -- the president and jared kushner in charge of middle east policy when we are about to blunder into a war. i want to pursue professor greer's point about history being our guide in some of these things. in previous crises, say during watergate and during the vietnam war, when the chief executive and the congress were at loggerheads, the american people had an anchor in the senate and it was the wise men of the republican party -- howard baker, dole, goldwater -- who were our anchor to the windward side. they are not there anymore. there is no functioning republican establishment. and that is the missing cog, i think, in the gear of government now. in addition to the eccentricity of the executive branch.
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>> ek sccentricity is quite the word. without diminishing the import of that, it has become clear that the democrats are not ready to do much about much of this. much to the consternation of a lot of people, of the grassroots base which is not necessarily how to resolve constitutional questions, but is politically relevant. the democrats are the ones claiming this would be politically bad. i want to play for you tom stire who's been on this show. he's a major donor to democrats beating the drum on this. take a look. >> for over two years this president has broken the law. >> and nothing happened. >> you told us to wait for the mueller investigation. >> and when he showed obstruction of justice. >> nothing happened. >> now you tell us to wait for the next election? >> really? >> really? >> really? >> you're doing nothing. >> nothing. >> nothing. >> he broke his oath of office. >> he's defying you. >> he's laughing at you. >> he's getting away with it.
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>> the group time to impeach funded that. does it sound like something real people are saying? >> all true. the great political debate that the american people are tired of this microscopic examination of the issues and wanted to litigate the issue in the 2020 election. >> to that, isn't that what the ad says where people say really? if that were the case why are the democrats hitting the idea that the mueller report and the mueller findings would resolve this? people didn't get the idea out of nowhere. they got it from their leaders. >> some of their leaders. here's my view of that. i think the democratic party is in a state of inner conflict. nancy pelosi is clearly slow walking impeachment advocates. i think she wants to litigate this in 2020 because she thinks her party can win.
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those polls today that showed trump is a 40% president or 41% president, i think, stiffened her resolve to try to not mire the democratic party in a te tedious process when they are on the verge of a victory to solve all the business as it were. >> expertly laid out by howell is a view democrats have relied on and failed on before, the idea of wait around and the win is just around the corner rather than fight hard for the win. >> democrats losing on defense constantly. i trust nancy pelosi's leadership and long-term vision. there is a sense of urgency. there is a division within the party. some want to litigate to the end and others say let's talk about
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issues and big ideas and what the party can do in the future and this is on the side. that's how we'll build coalitions and get people to get us to the win in 2020. both things need to happen simultaneously. >> my thanks to howell raines. christina will be back later on an important topic. i will turn to my fact check on bill barr and why he sounds like fox news lately. and breaking news of another controversial abortion vote and a lawmaker talking about a term. and stunning response to the news about this killing of eric garner. also new reporting on donald trump's micro management of his attempts to get a border wall built right down to the shades of paint. that plus tonight a fall back friday with karamo brown and mike lupica. some things are out of your control. like bedhead. hmmmm. ♪ rub-a-dub ducky...
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attorney general bill barr has been under fire for misleading the public about the mueller report. a congressional committee threatened to hold him in contempt. he's speaking out, deciding to get in front cough cof cameras news on fox news. barr speaking to bill hemmer and while there barr appeared to echo one of the biggest
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trump-defending anchors of the network. >> using untrue, something that's unverifiable russian misinformation propaganda, outright lies, paid for by hillary clinton. >> to have opposition research like that, especially one that on its face had a number of clear mistakes. >> as the very basis for a warrant to spy not only on an american citizen, but an american citizen working for the trump campaign. >> to use that to conduct counter-intelligence against an american political campaign is a strange -- would be a strange development. >> that last line from barr flatly inaccurate. there are no public reports of surveillance of the, quote, political campaign. there is court-approved surveillance of several individuals. it was team trump themselves that played down the idea that the people you see here were key to the campaign minimizing the role of unpaid advisers like papadopoulos and page.
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there were ties worth surveilling here. three of the surveilled advisers ended up pleading guilty. for these new remarks from barr which are news worthy are his embrace in rhetoric and related actions. of the doj reviews to investigate the mueller investigators. take a look. >> first step is find out what happened. i have been trying to get answers to questions. i found that a lot of the answers have been inadequate. i have also found that some of the explanations i have gotten don't hang together. in a sense, i have more questions today than i did when i first start. we should be worried about whether government officials abused their power and put their thumb on the scale. so i'm not saying it happened. but i'm saying that we have to look at that. >> barr is echoing trump there questioning if the fbi has its thumb on the scale. it was trump's own appointee who
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oversaw him and vouched for the probe. what barr knows as a veteran prosecutor is they don't make the call about surveillance anyway. prosecutors don't decide whether or not to issue a warrant. judges do. independent judges ok'd all the surveillance you hear barr talking about now. if defendants want to challenge that they have a venue in court. it won't be in a private review overseen by mr. barr. this is basic stuff. even the fbi director hand picked by trump after the comey firing was duty bound to rebut barr's spying claim. >> do you believe that they are engaging in spying when they are following fbi investigative policies and procedures? >> well, that's not the term i would use. >> do you have any evidence that any illegal surveillance into the campaigns or individuals associated with the campaigns by the fbi occurred? >> i don't think i personally have any evidence of that sort. >> there is another big claim from barr here. he's fine with trump using that
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witch hunt term to describe mueller's probe. >> if you were the president i think you would view it as a witch hunt and a hoax. he's been hammered for allegedly conspiring with russians. we now know that was simply false. >> a witch hunt would be an improper investigation -- hunting for witches. the fact that it was a valid investigation and didn't end in every single thing that was investigated being charged if anything shows how fair it was. you could probe anything. probe x. the fact that at the end of the probe you don't charge someone for x doesn't mean the probe was pointless, let alone a witch hunt. barr is the attorney general. he knows that. without a conspiracy charge you have a lawful investigation, not a witch hunt. there are other questions about obstruction, of course, with 700 plus federal prosecutors saying what's in the mueller report looks to them like a crime committed by the president.
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there's just a rule you don't charge him. then look at barr trying to justify something that just about everyone knows is bad because the trump people tried to stop it from happening. here's trump's new attorney general saying maybe there were good reasons for the attempts to fire bob mueller. >> elsewhere the report does say that mcgahn was told by trump to talk to rosenstein to complain about conflicts of interest mueller had and have mueller removed for conflicts of interest. there is a difference. >> there you have barr trying to say this was all about conflicts of interest as if there was no attempt to fire mueller. this is important. he's not trump's defense lawyer. he's the attorney general. the mueller report shows mcgahn called his own lawyer because he thought it was so improper that trump was asking him to fire mueller. let me read that to you if you want to remember for yourself. mcgahn decided he had to resign.
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he called his personal lawyer, his chief of staff informing her of his decision. he wasn't going to resign because he was asked to do a conflict check. he was resigning, as he said, because he thought trump was asking him to help commit what would be a crime. remember, you can't indict the president but you can indict other people if any of them helped obstruct justice. barr got basic facts wrong here about what prosecutors do. take a look. >> were you surprised that he came back with no recommendation on that obstruction charge? did that surprise you? >> yes, that surprised me. >> how come? >> the function of a prosecutor is to make a call one acor the other. we met march 5 before he delivered the report. he gave an explanation for it. it's pretty much reflected in the report. >> the answer is tricky. that was not mueller's role, although prosecutors do traditionally issue a fuller conclusion when dealing with
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other citizens. but as everyone has heard by now, mueller didn't make that kind of decision about indictment, nor did ken starr or jaworski who investigated nixon. they issued material, information, indictments of other nonpresidents and left it up to congress, not the doj or mr. barr to decide what, if anything, to do about it. it's telling to have mr. barr double down on some claims that are false and others that feel like cherry picking to back up trump's view no matter what. that's not how the system is supposed to work. the bottom line tonight is you have an attorney general who's been accused by many, including earlier on the show of acting like donald trump's personal criminal defense lawyer, not like the attorney general. now he sounds like donald trump's personal criminal defense lawyer when he chooses to go where? to fox news to question the fbi, to say that his own, to continue
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to give voice, attention and hype to this so-le kaed process of investigating the investigators. the president used the word treason today when referring to mr. barr's alleged spying talk. the probe was uncovering pressure from trump on the doj that isn't supposed to happen in the first place. now the new a.g. doubles down on this saying to look into things which did result in indictments and indicting the russians was some sort of witch hunt. you have to think about what barr's doj is doing, what it's up to as he says there will be three more separate reviews of the mueller probe because there are experts, even some who used to praise him, asking can the public, the country, the
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government, the press trust what comes out of mr. barr's justice department when this is how he's acting. we have a lot more in the program tonight. missouri's strict new abortion law. stunning comments as well as what comes next. a former trump org insider discussing the impact of donald trump's appetite for revenge. we're back in 30 seconds. evenge we're back in 30 seconds u won't. go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more. with peak season berries, uniqcreamy avocado. and a dressing fit for a goddess. come taste what a salad should be. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be.
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donald trump's obsession even when he rolls out a new immigration plan he was micro managing the design of the wall. he said mexico would pay. that's not happening. he wants tips pointed, not round. he described the potential injuries to people who cross over his plan for the wall and demanded that it be painted, quote, flat black to absorb heat so it would be scorching to the touch. at the same time, trump is also allegedly preoccupied with how the fence appears. it's got to be beautiful, tall. he pushed back against allegedly confused engineers who said some of the requests were functionally impractical. former trump org executive who helped build trump tower, witnessed trump's approach to business, pettiness and obsession with style over substance first hand. >> as far as the public spaces were concerned it was topnotch stuff, but in the apartments
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there was a lot of crap. the floor was the cheapest wood floor you could get. it's funny. i helped write the plan that talked about marketry. it was nonsense. cheap tiles glued down. the kitchens were garbage. >> garbage. i'm joined by barbara, author of "all alone on the 68th floor." she's been inside the organization. we rely on you for your valuable insights. thanks for being on the show. >> my pleasure. >> garbage you said in the clip. >> it's true. >> what do you see in the way he's approaching the wall? >> you know, it's basically similar to the way he approached other things. he has the notion that he'll be judged based on the appearance of things. that's his wall so it's got to be perfect in his mind.
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he does think of things like color and quality. absolutely. at the same time, by the way, wants it all for next to nothing. he wants the best he can get and wants not to pay for anything. >> where do you think that comes from? when you're building a building keeping costs low within reason is considered good business. what you're describing is a fixation on the look, penny pinching but he wasn't penny pinching as the "new york times" has done reporting when he was buying up the plaza for an inflated sum, when he was running an airline company into the ground. there seems to be some distinction or contrast there. what is that? >> first of all, in terms of penny pinching with the plaza and the air line, he's not a great businessman. he didn't do a good job in buying those. as far as penny pinching with the finishes, it's just the opposite. he decrees, well, i don't want
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to pay for this. you stumble around trying to do the best you can. it's not like he's making the decision or making relatively inexpensive things happen. he's directing someone who can do it but on his own he doesn't make good decisions. he doesn't save money. >> do you remember "the simpson simpsons"? >> sure. >> it feels like a "the simpsons" episode. donald trump has become president. it says he basically was summoning the head of the u.s. army corps of engineers, serious job, and kept demanding the structure be both physically imposing but also aesthetically pleasing. isn't that ridiculous? if it is supposed to be a scary wall, why should it be pleasing? >> he doesn't understand the nuances of one versus the other, to be honest with you. at least in my opinion. i don't think -- you know, he has this notion that it has to be beautiful because it's something that he's creating.
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he doesn't understand it can't be one thing and then another. as far as the architect, engineer or another professional, he doesn't listen. if they don't agree with him, they don't know. >> i have only 20 seconds left. since you get to the heart of it, why are people obsessed with appearance? >> why is he? >> why are people? he's not the only one. >> you know, what came first -- the chicken or the egg? this is our society. our media. >> i'll tell you what came first. the chicken. it lays the egg. >> at any rate. >> well, barbara, i trust we'll have you back. >> i hope so. >> i find it calming talking to you. even talking about difficult things. coming up, an important story you may have seen this week. a tragic killing of eric garner. there is news in what the nypd
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was secretly discussing when they learned of his death. i want you to hear it. first, breaking news out of missouri. another extreme abortion ban. that's next. that'sex nt. every day, visionaries are creating the future. ♪ so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. ♪ the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ because the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. because the future only happens with people and relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor non-drowsy claritin and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. live claritin clear. for one week only, save up to $18 on select claritin products. check this sunday's newspaper for details.
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today missouri state lawmakers passed one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, banning abortions before many women would know they are pregnant. no exceptions for rape or inc t incest. look at a stunning moment from missouri that drew hiss in the chamber. a republican lawmaker said this about past rape cases. he said he dealt with as a police officer. >> let's just say someone goes out and they are raped or sexually assaulted one night after a college party. most of my rapes weren't the gentleman jumping out of the bushes nobody met.
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most of them were date rapes or consensual rapes which were all terrible. >> that legislature said he misspoke. here's how some of his democratic colleagues responded. >> let me say this right here and right now. there is no such thing, no such thing as consensual rape. >> i am joined by professor christina greer. thank you for coming back. when you look at what we are saying here, what's important to you about the policy debate over abortion within roe or attempting to overturn it and the wider debate over what people see as sexist, my sojnistic views, separate from the abortion debate. >> two things. one, we need to make sure we put pressure and keep pressure on state houses to make sure that there are certain states we thought were shored up like massachusetts that we really need to make sure this legislation that protects women and their bodies is on the
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books. i implore everyone to go to the national institute for reproductive health to get more information about the on the ground organizations. i hope that this will inspire people, not just men who were allies to the cause, but women who are pro choice women, pro abortion women to actually run for offices in their local state houses. this is where the action is these days. >> there is certainly a legitimate and strong pro-life view in the country. we have covered that. there is a larger by most polls pro choice view. what do you see where ignorance comes from -- ignorance about pregnancy, choices and what that gentleman mentioned. >> this is what happens when you don't have sex ed in schools, when you don't want to talk about contraception or anything that's fundamental. we are mammals. this is a fundamental human behavior. these are real problems where you have adults in positions of power consistently giving
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misinformation, bad information and sometimes lies to the general public and their constituents. that's very worrisome. >> professor, on several topics tonight, thank you for being a part of the show. we appreciate it. coming up, the other story we want to show you, new, a police commander's reaction to this choke hold killing of eric garner that caused gasps in the hearing room. e hearing room mu? [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need! [ gargling ] [ coins hitting the desk ] yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ lexus ux and ux f sport. also available
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a top nypd commander's first response to fellow officers killing an unarmed subject was this. quote, not a big deal. that reaction is news because it was just revealed during a disciplinary action for the officer who killed eric garner. comment from the other officer prompting gasps in the room. the officer killed garner with an illegal choke hold captures in this disturbing video of the interaction. garner said "i can't breathe" 11 times. his mother responded to the news and an officer said that niece moments before his killing was, quote, no big deal. >> no big deal. >> shame. disgusting. >> no big deal. now if one of your loved ones or one of your loved ones was on the ground dead and someone came up and said, "it's no big deal,"
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how would you feel? i think this officer should be off the force. he should not be in charge of anybody. >> the only reason that we are learning these new details now, over four years later, is because of this limited disciplinary review. as for criminal charges neither the feds nor the local d.a. ever filed any against the officer for this. the d.a., dan donovan led a prosecutor that resulted in no charges from a grand jury in 2014. he won a seat in congress the next year which he just lost in the midterms. i'm joined by rashad robinson from color for change, the nation's largest online racial justice organization. they have been working on these issues and this case for a long time. thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> no big deal. your response? >> it outrages us, makes us angry. we also cannot be surprised. at every stage in this process, the police have treated this like it was no big deal. they were backed up by systems and structures that protect
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police at every level and do not deliver justice for communities. it doesn't make us safer as a society. it doesn't give us more confidence that we'll have due process and protections for everyone in communities. >> we are speaking in new york city. there is a story that's familiar to people in communities across the country. the mayor of new york is now running for president. what do you see as his responsibility here and he has said and run on trying to change the way nypd operates. >> mayor de blasio ran on a message of not only ending stop and frisk but holding police accountable, of bringing police and communities together. if he can't fire this officer, if he can't do that then i do have real questions about why he's in iowa and why he's in south carolina and why he's traveling the country. what is his message for them about bringing communities together when right here at home we've got not just these text
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messages. we had the video of the illegal choke hold. we have had police officers during this hearing talk about how that choke hold was not taught during training. so throughout this process it has been exposed time and time again that the police operated outside of their responsibilities. and when police officers are protected, when they are not held to the same standards that teachers or doctors or anyone else on the jobs are held to then it sends a message that they can treat communities like enemy combatants and they will not suffer consequences. >> i want to ask about the police officer side of this. i cover the stories and i take covering the facts seriously. i have covered closer calls where there is a tragedy, but there are a lot of arguments on the other side. here, because of the video and what is clearly overwhelming force, an illegal choke hold, it is not a close call on the evidence. this is what the officer's lawyer said this week. the only reason he went toward
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the neck is because mr. garner's morbid obesity and his resisting arrest. if he department idn't resist a wouldn't be here today. is that a valid statement about the in-custody death of an unarmed person? >> it's not only a fair and accurate defense, it doesn't give all the facts. the fact is there were multiple officers. it was an illegal choke. there were other ithings police officers do every day to deescalate situations. we see videos that when the suspect is white they deescalate situations. that's what they are also trained to do in these situations. that's not what happened here. the other problem that we have is you talked about whether it's a close call or not. we have a system that doesn't actually allow us to have a call. >> there aren't trials. >> there aren't trials, systems of due process and justice where
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we can lay out the facts and see what happens. it's stacked from the very beginning. as a result, as communities continue to raise their voices, as they continue to hold district attorneys accountable like what we are doing at color of change and kick district attorneys out of office as we look to hold mayors and other officials accountable, the question is what are the new rules that elected officials that want our votes, want our support are willing to put in place so communities can have justice and safety at the same time. >> rashad robinson who leads color of change, thank you for coming on the beat. eric garner's mother gwen carr will be a guest on "the last word request lawrence o'donnell" tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. when we come back, we'll change things up with a fall back that should be fun. mike lupica and karamo brown when we come back. come back. feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin
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-while you ponder that, consider adopting a rescue pet. there are 6.5 million of them; they all need a forever home. it would mean the world to them, and they will love you forever. >> now we have a very special edition of fall back. i am joined by karamo brown who uses his background in social work to coach people through life changes and his memoire is my story of embracing purpose and hope. i am joined by mike lupica, one of the most prominent sports writers in america. look at him back in the day. he is the author of count em up. 15 "new york times" bestsellers.
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pretty good. >> purpose, healing, and hope. i cannot believe you stole the title of my next book. >> who needs to fall back? >> daylight savings. i'm tired of it. it's messing with my sleep and my mood and messing with my behavior. it was started for one reason. for farmers. now we are still doing it. we have no point of doing it. can we stop it? >> who came up with it? was there one patient zero farmer who said yes, let's have it be dark at 7:00 in the morning in the east. >> is it a thing where it was a good idea? >> originally. >> and now it's antiquated. >> it's dumb. we are the only country that does it. it doesn't make any sense when our time just went back. they are like why. we look more and more idiotic. >> what's on your list? >> i was thinking back to the
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cohen hearings and one of the most annoying men in america is congressman jim jordan from ohio. i'm a regular guy. i don't wear a jacket. we get it. okay. these guys act like they are the gatekeepers now for the constitution. when he is yelling and screaming, i try to spin ahead like a couple hundred years and think what will be the hamilton of 200 years from now. is anyone going to want to write about jim jordan and mark meadows? no, they're not. >> i want to ask you a serious question if you are up for it. >> sure. >> how does it feel to sit next to someone on national television who is just dressed better, looks better, is more put together? >> when he walked in today, the first thought i had, i swear i was thinking of this, do you have a jacket like that in a 40 short? >> let me say i associate myself
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in the comments as well. i hope you don't mind me talking about how good you look. >> appreciate it. >> think i have a black jacket. i have black button ups and black framed glasses, but it doesn't look like that. >> you look really well. you can't come to me with any of this self defeating stuff. you look great. own it, love it. >> you started with you look really well. >> you look good for you. >> nice jacket, old timer. >> is all black, black on black, is that a good look? >> it's always a good look. black is the best. >> could never carry that off. >> you could. just go black, black, black. >> i might bring back versaci shades. >> boom. >> boom. >> i was thinking more of when i thought about changing my
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wardrobe, i was thinking a tee. >> i love when you make hip hop references. i love it. >> change in the guards, but we are changing ought the frauds. i look like a fraud. >> i'm thinking nicky minaj. how can i be fake if my followers are real? >> you always get the last word. >> lawrence gets the last word. >> i have one good one. you know i try to show up, but it's like a game of horse. you end up with the last shot. >> you end up with mike. he is the guy who comes to the freestyle with prewritten material. he's that guy. you understand that? >> prewritten because somebody else wrote it. >> you are better than me. i couldn't come up with a lyric right now if you paid me. >> come on. >> i want to reminisce about one
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of my favorite moments on the beat that involves you. let's queue it up. take a look. >> what? >> i really embraced it. >> i want a hug like that, too. >> you are getting one next time i see you. >> i will hold you to the iou on the hug. >> any time. >> it was fresh there, too. are you ready for the hug? >> we don't have enough hugging. >> i didn't know you were going to play that. come on. come on. >> wait. >> this is ending toxic masculinity right here. >> mike looks little. >> felt like a jockey in the waiting room. >> the book is my story of embracing purpose, healing and hope. mr. bruin, thanks for coming on the beat. >> so glad to be here. >> you can't make it up, but why
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would you want to. we will have on minute neal katyal and the reverend al sharpton. don't go anywhere. when i'm done, "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. >> witness tampering? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. did donald trump have his personal lawyer try to shut up the top witness against him? did he try to silence michael flynn, his first national security chief and keep him from cooperating with special counsel mueller? new will information in the case of adviser flynn is raising more questions tonight about trump's possible obstruction of justice. "the washington post" is reporting that the president's former top lawyer contacted flynn in an attempt to influence his decision to cooperate with prosecutors.

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