tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 23, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT
had a sign printed up in front of the podium with the words "no collusion" and no obstruction" on them. he made the words "no" super big and the other words super tiny. if anything, this looks like the world's most infectieffective anti-drug psa. >> i just saw that nancy pelosi just before our meeting made a statement that we believe that the president of the united states is engaged in a coverup. well, it turns out -- and i think most of you would agree to this, i'm the most transparent president probably in the history of this country. >> no, we would not agree. i mean, we could see right through you but i don't think that's what you meant.
>> my goodness gracious. it was an abrupt rose garden sort of event, joe, except for the signsigns. >> along with joe, willie and me, we have john heilemann, white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. and author of "power up," jackie alameney joins us. joe, this ranks up there as next level for this president. >> spinal tap likes to turn it up to 11 but this guy turned it up to 11 like two years ago. >> so where are we now? >> 14 1/2?
i don't know. i know that he acts in such bad faith that it's so ironic that the guy that wrote "the art of the deal" is not only incapable of making a deal, but he does it in such bad faith. course i remember back during the immigration plan that they were going to come up with a big deal. donald trump sat and the table and lied to everybody when he said to democrats and republicans you guys come up with a big plan, i'll sign it. in fact, he said that to dianne feinstein and then lied because he's incapable of making a deal. he's just no good at it. he stinks at it. >> but this situation is different. he stormed out but it was planned. >> the same thing here. he wanted an infrastructure plan. again, the guy who claims to be able to make deals, a guy who actually likes democratic
leaders a lot more than he likes republican leaders, willie, this guy has always hated republicans. we've heard him behind closed doors just have contempt for what he used to call right-wing lunatics. that's when he was given a-- giving up a of his money to democrats, to rob schumer, dnc, nancy pelosi, hillary clinton. he's incapable of striking a deal. the worst deal maker that's ever sat in the presidential office. >> chuck shuker is a new york guy he feels he can talk to in his short hand. yesterday the president walked in for throw minutes, made a speech and then stormed out. i believe, john lemire that the president and this white house, they believe the democrats are
going through with impeachment. they believe the pressure is going to be too much on nancy pelosi. she's slow walking it but that they're going to get there and get to that impeachment inquiry and they believe they're trying to get out in front of it with in kind of a performance, obviously staged, made to look spontaneous but when the placard on the podium and the literature the president handed out, they believe they're getting in front of it and trying to control the narrative on it. >> what we've seen so far, this is a spontaneous event but a long time coming. basically since the democrats took control of the house in the mid-term elections, the president has warned nem, you can investigate me or and this one is not able to do that. impeachment is something that consumes him hp he talk about it all the time with advisers.
we'll switch conferrings it's the best possible political play they can. ne think that if the democrats go threw with mueller report did not find committed a crime, and the one thing about donald trump, we've seen it in his campaign, he loves to play the victim card, he loves to say the system is rigged against me, the deep state is working against me and his voters identify with that, that they have been held down. they think they can make a that play here again that they can get out ahead of that and go i'm trying to work and the senate controlled by republicans which ne believe and know will never get to convict him on paechlt.
>> requesting but first, here now are some of trump's planned temper it and -- i walked into the room and i told senator schumer, speaker pelosi i want to do infrastructure i'd be really good at that, health insurance what i do. but you know what, you can't do it under these circumstances. so get these phony investigations over with. >> do we believe that it's important to follow the facts. we believe no one is above the law, including the president of the united states, and we believe the president of the united states is engaged in a coverup. >> instead of walking in happily into a meeting, i walk into look at people that have just said
that i was doing a coverup. i don't do coverups. you people know that probably better than anybody. they want to make this a big deal, whether or not they carry the big i word out, i can't imagine that but they probably would. all of a sudden i hear last night they're going to have a meeting right before this meeting to talk about the "i" word. can you imagine? >> yes, i can. i can imagine. this is all what's happening because of exactly what he's done. >> well, because he's -- right now he is the least transparent president in the history of the un. notst and it's clear he covered up time and time again on both large and small things. unfortunately more reports of children dying at the border,
that fact being eent overturnin the president's decision to intentionally obstruct investigations that are being conducted right now by the constitutional committee. this week also yet another court ordering yesterday that deutsche bank has to turn over financial records that, again, that not only donald trump but his family tried to cover up, tried to obstruct and yet another investigation. john heilemann be, that pop in medical and they don't really care about the fact that the president won't turn over and
they won't and is lying that it had everything to do with the steele dossier. i mean, we're told that most americans just don't care about lying. but for democrats, isn't it important they be the champion of the belief in a no man is above the law. let's just strip it down to that. no man is above the law. and, yeah, they're not going to get a bridge in their district to throw away the concept that no man is above the law. >> right. so, yes, i think so. it super important for and i think there's more pla who are wore about proceeding on this front. going back to your point at the top about how did of course
there was never going to be a deal that came out of this. another couple many emments of trump's incompetence, nancy pelosi was having a problem in her caucus, she was losing control and had people pushing for impeachment. she was trying to calm her caucus, having the first real call a life preserver by allowing her to back on her side. nancy pelosi versus donald trump is a house that you go back to bill clinton, you did bill
clinton within he constantly wrote the message i am getting the people's business done. when a got impeached, the senate didn't come vikt but the whole time he was passing legislation, doing the people's business and demonstrably, flagrantly doing the people's business. donald trump is doing exactly the opposite thing, saying i can do the people's business while i'm being investigated and gives nancy pelosi another argument for impeachment, which is he's not discharging his article 22 responsibilities as president of the united states. so trump my plays at the at the tactical, the strategic level a and. s moose pla bill clinton flagrantly got things done. it was plague rant.
>> he worked. >> sear four years in a row, pa past -- i always joshd about this, could you impeople bill clinton on thursday and he would take you golfing on friday. you know why? becau because. history will be unkind the most successful president sin l.b.j. ronald reagan is close but what bill clinton did in eight years, pretty incredible. >> i'd love to know what republicans are thinking.
-- >> you orchestrated to l almost "poor baby" point of view, he came into the room and said i said he was engaged in a coverup and he couldn't possibly engage in a conversation on infrastructure as long as we are investigating him. that's what happened this morning. it was very, very, very strange. >> when we got in the room, the curtains were closed, the president -- there was a place for him at the front so he could stand and attempt to tell us why he wouldn't do infrastructure. and of course then he went to the rose garden with prepared signs that had been printed up long before our meeting. >> the president was about ten minutes late coming in. and what i noticed was there was no chair set for where he regularly sits.
so there is no doubt in my mind that this was a show with no go on infrastructure. it was a show because the president was angry. >> okay, couple of things. schumer is going to be on the show later this morning and steny hoyer. but jackie, i just have to ask, if republicans can't step up for lying, potential obstruction, and things that really pertain to matters of our constitution and our government, how about more than justin amash stepping up because they don't want to look stupid? like the whole thing yesterday looked ridiculous. it was like a kid's play that was set up by a bunch of bumbling idiots that they thought they were tricking everyone and all the parents are like, yes, this is really happening! when it was obvious that the president set this up, acted
like a complete idiot, had a temper tantrum, walked out and left the actual job of the government undone. >> that is a very rational, logical way of laying that out, mika. but what you're seeing is justin amash was actually punished for calling out for his impeach. the devos family pulled their funding from his campaign. >> the bigger issue at play here and i think why republicans are so silent is because of pelosi's quandary on the hill. there is this sort of mutual frustration society where pelosi is losing control of her caucus.
you have the impeachment team versus her squad, which is, you know, let's stay the course, let's let these legal proceedings play out, things are on our side. we've had a bunch of wins this week and instead it's being overshadowed by all of this impeachment talk. let the president hold his theatrics as he did in the rose garden, which in their perspective seemed to be clearly premeditated by him. as she said, there didn't seem to ever be any plan to talk about infrastructure. her leadership has really fractured. >> the country on some level has become numb to this circus we watch every day. the word in a keeps coming back to my mind is pathetic.
in you want something to happen in this country, you want things to happen and if you're not i h nottish -- this is the highest level of leadership the united states has to offer and and this is what we get on a day in-dayout basis is a show. it pa they nick every way. >> we could read it as mika said idiot ek, childish. but it also an stunned doctor want immune to the rule of law, then none of the people's business would get done. either the or the constitutional duty or there will be i mean,
that's clearly bored aring -- we moved beyond ought democratic. and then to go back to joe's earlier point at the top of the hour, he engages in bad faith because in some ways he despises his interlocutors. because he's constantly trying to dupe folks. it makes it very difficult to imagine how the business of the country will get done. so we are in a very dark place. and there's the entertainment of it, there's the tactical and strategic matters, but at a certain level, willie, this is a very dark hour in the history of our democracy. >> well, i mean -- >> i completely agree. >> in 2016, what did he say? he said i'm a deal maker. i can get thing done. nobody else can get thing done.
he's prfen himself to be ineffective, a liar. he's not a deal maker. he was going to shake-up washington and bring and, mika -- >> how about gaffs with russia, north korea and now the drum beat of war with iran. >> thee hasn't done it. given, let underline this simple fact. republican and none of this has got i don't know done. so people out there that are saying i like trump because he can get -- no, no. he's not getting anything done. you say he's shaking thing up, yeah. just like putting a horse in a hospital. donald trump, as somebody has
said is a horse in a hospital. you open up the doors. you're saying, well, he's shaking things up. yes. just like if you put a horse in the hospital. and john delaney said, why did you let the horse in the hospital? and the answer was, oh, because it was inefficient. yesterday was the horse racing toward the nicu. and you all can still sit out there wherever you are going donald trump shaking things up. yeah, just like mika, a horse in a hospital? . are you supporti trump for doin nothing? >> still ahead on "morning joe," two of the top democrats on
capitol hill, senator-check tomb humor and congressman stan stn plus new developments on duelling efforts to get ahold of president trump's financial information. new york lawmakers pass a bill concerni concerning rule against an attempt to block his let's go right to bill karins for that. bill? >> good morning. the sun is coming up. we'll see house of representatives extensive the damage was. this is barton county in missouri, we had a tornado on the ground at least an hour, formed just north of joplin. there's a lot of small farmhouses and towns in between those areas so there's a lot more damage and i wouldn't be surprised if the number of fatalities goes up.
jefferson city, missouri, the capital of they had a lot of injuries and a lot of the government buildings have been that loon of storms continues this morning. we have 70 mile-an-hour winds heading for areas of ohio. we're got it's going to be another possible texas, oak okay parkincluding washington parkincluding washington c, balt pr and if at any time. lot of areas could see tornadoes, too, in areas of pennsylvania this afternoon. it going to be a very dangerous day. new york city is in not in in
exhibit airport ballet dlais. looks like they'll weaken by the time they reach the big apple. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with will be like,watching "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com
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i'm gonna sweep the sofa fort. well, look what i found. take control of your wifi with xfinity xfi. let's roll! now that's simple, easy, awesome. xfinity xfi gives you the speed, coverage and control you need. manage your wifi network from anywhere when you download the xfi app today. hey, willie, we were talking about john ma laney. with all the people that have talked about donald trump, i think malaney may have bestence ca -- best encapsulated where we are now with his radio city "trump is a horse in a hospital" routine. >> he's very descriptive. go on youtube and watch the
whole thing and the idea is there's a horse loose in the hospital and that is president trump loose in the united states. >> that is correct. >> but incredibly, radio city, he did it at radio city. john brian on the organ, an wonderful event. mika, you had an event yesterday yourself. >> yes. >> it was in orlando and, man, everything i hear from people who were there is that it was incredible talking about once again women getting what they deserve, getting ahead, taking leadership roles and moving forward. >> this was for ubs. who you see there is marcia askins of ubs global wealth management. we talked about everything global and life challenges along the way. you get a sense from the team of
450 incredible women that ubs is doing a great job moving into this space, making sure they retain top female talent, hear what they need and really become a leader in this. it was a good day and i didn't have to suffer through you on book deadline because that's something to see, you on book deadline. it was rough when i got back at 10 p.m. >> it never, ever ends. >> a federal judge has dealt president trump a second major legal blow this week in his bid to keep his financial records out of the hands of congress. the judge in the u.s. district court of manhattan yesterday rejected the president's request to block his long-time lender, deutsche bank, from complying with congressional subpoenas seeking his detailed financial records. you get a sense of state of mind when you hear these things were happening yesterday as the president was losing it. the judge made the decision after hearing arguments from lawyers representing trump and his family as well as two
democratic-controlled congressional committees. the move comes on the heels of the decision by a federal judge in washington, d.c. earlier this week to not block a house subpoena to president trump's accounting firm for his financial records. the president has appealed that ruling, too. meanwhile, nbc news has learned a key congressional committee has already gained access to his history with two major financial institutions, according to two sources familiar with the house probe, wells fargo and td bank are two of the nine institutions that have so-called complied with subpoena, demanding information about their dealings with the trump organization. wells fargo handed oaf a few thousand documents while td bank gave the committee a hand full according to a source who has seen them. both banks declined to comment on the story. the documents have been
requested in an effort to learn more about the president's business relationship with russia and other foreign entities. >> we have to get ready for the coming "star wars 9", the last installment. so there is a balance in the force, my friend. and this balance we're talking about madisonian democracy. i've said from the beginning of this administration that for of constitutional norm donald trump trying to shatter, there are federal judges, conservative and liberal that are like, no, no actually that's not the way our constitution works. you will remember neil gorsuch even attacking president trump while he was still -- while his hearings are still in front of him for sorry, you actually have
to comply with requests from legitimate oversight committees. >> there's a lot of places in american law, as you know, where there is legitimate interpretive conflict. a conservative judge rules in a different way than a liberal judge and there's lots of places where that's true. the thing about what trump's running into is the court challenges that he and his team are making on these various front are not contest be there are places where there's a vast precedential background, an agreement between they're not places where the trump organization can say, well, there's a conservative judge over here that on our side. there's nobody that's going
toing on their side, especially when it relates to congressional subpoenas. and the course don't get in the way that so they're going to lose these cases one after another because they're not tough cases, they're easy cases, they're slam dunks. >> that's one of the things that still almost when a subpoena was issued to bill clinton, it a subpoena, it legal, you have to comply. moe man is above the law. >> yet the stra i didn'ts been pr hopefully it all plays out
they hope until after 2020. on the deutsche bank pon, john lemire, i'm not sure people understand the relationship totally. the president has borrowed something like $2 billion because nobody else would owe him any money and he still owed them $300 million when he took office. deutsche bank said they're it. there as a good reason apparently the president doesn't want to see not only the peacekeepers or into hands of professional investigators. the white house has basically said hair going -- they laid out
in a letter the last couple of days is trying to cham that congress's investigative authority is on if it pride. the not just that they've happened. it the speed at which they've happened. the strategy has been to run out the clock on these investigations, to run them through appeals but if it gets into next spring or summer, at least they'll try to make the case to the american people that, look, time is running out in a few months anyway. the democrats are trying to play toll tiks, let's forget the legislation and let the voters decide.
york straight will goorsand all of these rulings are happening really quickly, contraire ear in order to actually obtain these documents. but the law is pretty clear here. it affirms a will the, that there is a, at it results to maze a, the accounting firm that trump uses but frm that it also checks lornt the president is complying with the emoluments clause and that wrornt the
president is even accurately reporting his finances to government ethics. so i think that is why you are seeing speaker pelosi to stay the course and not initiate impeachment proceedings because things are moving really rapidly in their favor. >> yeah, "the washington post"'s jack jack jackie alemany. thank you. >> richard haas joins us up to weigh in on rising tensions with iran. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ a moment ♪ ♪ the matters.ar... introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger,
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i'm curious what you thought because you have now focused on it, correct? >> you called them the new talking heads. >> i think they have come to occupy that place in the cultural -- not that they sound like talking heads but they're in that space now. what white kid, avant-garde, artisty, it's a great red. wh -- record. what do you think? >> i think that's great. and let's talk about the red sox. red sox win, red sox win! >> they blew three saves in the game. let's talk about rookie michael
chav chavis. it was a good win last night. we need a little more consistency and my kingdom for a power arm for the eighth and ninth inning, please. >> richard haas, the new york yankee on an 8-2 streak they are in first place and playing zr d extraordinary well. you guys are so hurt. and yet -- yet you just keep winning. >> the biggest problem for the yankees is going to be if and when anybody recovers and then they have to figure out what to do with all these guys who have gotten them into first place. do they sit them and let the
high class guys come in. >> i think you put a yankees uniform on a kid and they think it their duty, their responsibility to excel. i always said last year, the sox won 108 games and that was extraordinary, but the fact that the yankees won a hundred games as hurt as they were was just about as remarkable of an achievement. >> i'm wearing my pin stripe today. everybody loves a yankees underdog story. am i right, guys? >> no, not right. >> we don't have the payroll of the boston red sox or the chicago cubs -- >> joe, this is your show. >> let's do the news. it's astonishing what they're
doing every day. everybody has been hurt at one point this season, most of them are still hurt. but you're right, these guys came up from triple a and they played immediately. they're not scared by the big lights. we'll see what happens when everybody gets back. if these guys want to take extra time in tampa to rehab, stay where they are. you are also an analyst for the yes network. that's the yankees network, by the way. >> that's what i'm grilling. >> memorial day weekend coming up here. let's talk about that a.p. report that the pentagon is presenting the president with a plan to send 10,000 troops to the middle east bl. what is the plan here and what is the strategy behind it? >> we've turned the heat up on iran but we don't have a plan or a strategy. i think people are going to capitulate. the question is whether iran pushes back, by getting out of
nuclear in the region or causing pain in the region, against u.s. forces in iraq. that's where deployment of extra troops makes a little bit of sense. but the big question again is why are we doing what we're doing? what's our defness of success? we don't have one. i keep waiting for the president to get serious and say we're prepared to negotiate, we don't like the old agreement but we'd be open to a new agreement, one that extends -- i simply don't see diplomacy. >> depending on the day, the president of the united states either says there's a credible threat from iran or there's nothing right now but we want to be prepared if there is. >> he seems strangely unaware of
the foreign policy. it's almost as if he woke up the other day and said, hey, i don't want a war. but that's what he was driving to. but the real question is does he have a definition of success? it's the same at north korea. we want denuclearization. we're not going to get it. is he willing to accept half a loaf. in every situation he's asking for a moon and he's not willing to put a lot in play to get there. the real question is will he ever accept half a loaf. >> let look over the past two presidencies. you barack obama, who a lot of foreign policy specialists would complain was more interested in having the wing in his presidential library that said i got got out of two wars and didn't get us into a new one than he was at looking at the world in front of him, talking
about syria, the rise of isis. now we have donald trump also obsessed with not getting the united states into war, so much so that he's actually removed troops from syria, which we're doing an extraordinary service, not on to the united states interests but interests across the middle east. what leverage do we have over north korea or iran or any country if they know this president is not going to follow through with any threat that he makes? because he is not going to go to war. he's not going to start a war. so what's the leverage? >> i think he has essentially taken most of these cases, you're right, military force off the table. there is other leverage he could introduce. with iran, he could have worked with the europeans to fry to get a strengthening agreement. over china on trade, he could
have put america in tpp and worked collectively. refusing to do all that and against this back drop of sanctions, he has to lower our goals, stop asking for solutions, stop asking for other countries to do what they're not going to do and basically do what diplomats do, basically say we're prepared to give something in exchange for you essentially practicing the art of the deal and what's so add is he doesn't seem willing to do that. >> you mentioned his divide within the administration, within the white house. there's been a lot of reporting lately that the president is frustrated with john bolton and that he's being pushed into a conflict with iran. but talk about the acting secretary, shanahan. we don't have a defense secretary currently as we're going into this conflict. but also mike pompeo. what roles are they play sfg. >> mike pompeo seems to be less
present than he used to be. he arkansas be lated a really tough position on iran. he doesn't want to be associated with something that could trigger a conflict. with north korea, i don't see anything pushing a come missituation. venezuela seems to be more pompeo and state department but there what we don't have national security process. woor people are integrating the various concerns saying do we want to press china here if we need their help o on north korea. john bolton no in the traditional sense of
integrating, playing traffic cop, going to the president saying state wants this, other as he's a counselor to the president. he is a voice. he's about as far from ben joe kroft as we've ever had in that job and that's very consistent with the president's operating style where he can pick and choose advisersers the good news is thank go. there's a lot of baggage if this
relationship given the last 50, 60, 70 years. anti-americanism is a beg part of this know, is he willing sit down with them to make a deal? >> we pulled out. >> they're suspicious. they're feeling economic heat. the iranian economy is this ringing. these are be pb if the economy is show hurting and shrinking 7% a year now china sits on
certainly like $1.2 billion -- i'm sorry, and even o this would lose request can they get from both their on. on this rare earth minerals, they have a large share of the gobble markets now ons we, too, can play that georgia new hampshire we've made ourselves less vulnerable on energy and more vulnerable on debt. it's a major national security move bit united states to rack up all this debt. >> richard haas, thank you for
coming on this morning. so many important issues to talk about. coming up, two democrats were in the room when president trump decided to walk out in a planned meltdown of an infrastructure meeting. senate minority leader chuck schumer joins the conversation in just a few minutes. and house majority leader steny hoyer will be our guest this morning. plus hud secretary ben carson tries to explain how he confused a common real estate term with an oreo cookie. >> that happens all the time. i do that. >> what he is saying about that gaffe ahead on "morning joe." gaffe ahead on "morning joe.
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signs that had been presented up long before our meeting. >> i walked into the room and i told senator schumer, speaker pelosi, i want to do infrastructure, i want to do it more than you want to do it, i'd be really good at that, that's what i do, but you know what, you can't do it under these circumstances so get these phon, poor baby point of view, he came into the room and said i said he was engaged in a coverup and couldn't possibly engage in a conversation on infrastructure as long as we are investigating him. that's what happened this morning. it was very, very, very strange.
>> they want to make this a bill deal. whether or not they carry the big "i" word out, i don't know but they probably would. they're going to have a meeting to talk about the "i" word. can you imagine? >> the president was about ten minutes late coming in. what i noticed is there was no chair set for where he regularly sits. so there is no doubt in my mind that this was a show with no go on infrastructure. it was a show because the president of angry. >> instead of walking in happily into a meeting, i walk into look at people that have just said that i was doing a coverup. i don't do coverups. you people know that probably better than anybody. >> and then he looked into the camera and he said "danger is my middle name." john heilemann, i've seen third
grade plays that were carried off with really more -- >> subtlety? >> not subtlety. that were mao convincing. it was just very bad acting on the president's part. you'd think as mmm years as he was on the "the apprentice," but it was such, bad, bad production. >> and to reraise a point we discussed in the last hour, the president does not seem to get that impeachment is a thing that some presidents survived and some have not. bill clinton survived during impeachment because he said i'm doing the people's business, republicans are focused on me, i'm focused on you. and president trump is saying i can't do the people's business as long as people are looking at
me, i'm paralyzed. what i don't get is "the i word." >> he wants to be impeached so badly. no, he does. >> and nancy knows that. >> he wants to be impeached so badly so the senate can then decide that hoose not going to be convicted, can whose presidency he looks at and studies an awful lot and he saw bill clinton went up to 60% after he was impeached. he knows. he's got to record to run on, other than making his balan
billionaire friends at mar-a-la mar-a-lago, he made those people a lot of money. so he wants to to be victimized as nancy pelosi said yesterday, oh poor baby. let. >> who is desperate to be impeach impeached. >> he loves playing the democrat chuck schumer of new york who was there. eye gsh. >> chuck, i'm sure you've seen a lot of plays by your children. you go there and see them do their holiday play. >> because they're so erat and you hit it, joe. he doesn't have real accomplishments. the who things elook at are the
tax bill, highly unpopular because it went to the very wealthy and the economy, most of the benefit, 60% above median income and lower, they don't think they're gaining these justices and judges they put in a arethe american people don't like that either. if he were smart, he'd sit down with us. we believeinfrastructure, not only road and bridges, but what about a power grid across the country that could bring clean energy? what about broad band to millions of inner city americans? we want to do this and he's incapable of it.
what happened yesterday in my judgment is that they were so ill prepared and afraid to say how that will pay but it doesn't look good to him or nn from. it's just a show. >> you know, or worp -- we fought like hell over bill clinton and perjury and all of these other issues, but in the middle of that, republicans t
senate, the and you talked about immigration a year ago. >> yes. donald trump said to everybody around that table, specific spade f you came up with a deal -- >> we did. >> and then he did not approve it. he said the same thing on infrastructure. and then he pulled back. every single deal prnl to create jobs in jobs chris every time you tried to do that with infrastructure, psh the the held
with sfrfrmt how do you help the people in those states when the president won't let up? >> well, one, we have keep tryi tryingfrchbl what we proposed is und undomand to create jobs mabb all this show is a coverup, yet quote, this, if and he is so hard right. he doesn't even think the federal government should pb t put -- and there is no one else, there is no one home. the only people able to say mr. president, you have to do
this better, they are gone. the mattises are gone, the priebuses are gone, even the kellys tried a little bit. if it's a do-nothing, helter skelter radical presidency, which is it right now, it's going to inure to the presidency. when trump really becomes unpopular, then our republican colleagues in the senate, which is the full crumb now that woo they're scared of him. they don't like to but this they to pull him back in and graek with him. and if this they may realize their political fate is tied to his and start working with us, even when trump will say no be
and maybe mike will bring up the yankees quite inkred icredible. >> there as no aaron judge in the white house. there's no arj judge on the yankees right now either. >> you're on the verge of what could be a potentially disastrous new york giants football season. >> please, don't pay me. >> yesterday you used a key word to describe the trump presidency, a show. eight daily show. and yesterday' show didn't get the ratings that apparently thought it was going to get. did you we're two and a half years now into this experimental presidency. so what's your verdict? is he competent do do the job? >> no. he is not. and more and more people are
seeing it. i think the show if you will is to try to divert attention from what. you may enjoy the show the first few days you go, you go if you have to sit there and watch it when you're haurt hurting and you need health care and especially when you're worried about the future of your kids. especially when you need broadband across the country, which a lot of people don't have in rural areas. >> as much as yesterday was an inability to strike an infrastructure deal and the president walking away about it, this is also about impeachment. it will have an impact for you and for the electoral states, not just for the presidency in 2020 butt senate. what do you, sir, think? should speaker pelosi and the
how was beginning paechlt proceedings. >> i think what speaker pelosi is i don't want to demote her, but what -- but what speaker pelosi is doing is exactly right. in the day-to-frustration at the president's lack of respect for rule of law, his bullying process and his bullying people, we forget the wisdom, the beauty we're not going o snap our fingers and all the becomes because of the way the founding fathers set this up, the courts are slow. they can appoint people but still the majority of judges are not appoiointes and not hard-ri appointees, which they have added.
you have two court cases that said get right to the innards of what donald trump fears, the revelations of his financing and deals with banks and and then the public will make a decision as to should i think what people misses she does have the support -- i was were her right after the meeting with the house at 9 a.m., which trump said our meeting said was premanned to have the meeting pa spchl is he i think she has the support of most of us and certainly me. . >> well, senator, you mentioned the founders and speaker pelosi
when i interviewed her this week, i just asked her point blanc right out on the balkany are we going o be okay? >> just one point to that, mika. the prss isbut it worked witty well for 200 years and i don't think exactly. >> hi, kasey. >> you went over to the white house. we've heard from your colleagues it was clear the president wasn't going to sit down at the meeting. you guys were all ready to do that. would you go back to the white house at himself invitation?
>> even if he's using you guys in a show, as you call it? >> i don't think it works for him. i said yesterday we came out a will the better than he did. and, as i said, i think the show wears thin, i think the lack of accomplishment, the do-nothing presidency sinks in. that's going on the number -- all the things people don't like about donald trump, his bullying, ego, or the on things don't get done done and that is but we'll keep riping. i believe in -- what can we do
together? i was driving in my car going baah but in any case, no one was golfing at that course. it not a big win frnlt but in any ways, were you said, yes, i want do infrastructure. plnt be frsh even though you didn't originally campaign that way. and he said "we'll do it." we care on spm canand david p dared him to veto something,
which i don't think he would by the end of the day. >> you reminded me of something when you talkabout donald trump dealing with him. i had people ask me and al sharp don does well, what was this guy like before he got into politics and i tried to explain how different he was than what he is now. this guy contributed to you through fund r -- threw fund-raiser for you, he candidate hide it. he really likes you, he likes nancy pelosi. he's more comfortable with you culturally than mitch mcconnell and what he used to say about right-wing republicans behind closed door, nobody would believe today. how do you explain to people this morning the transformation of the donald trump that you knew, even though we knew he was a wuly and he had ris whacknesss
but just a rooling it was to this abhorrent character he is playing on tv. >> you're right in one sense but not another. his personal hasn't changed much. he's always been a bully, he's always threatened, he's always threatened and misstated stuff and always had a way of appealing to the dark side of people, even when he was just a public figure getting stories in the "new york post" and things like that. what's changed are on his politician but everything he said he was professional choice, okay? did everything who can to dismantle roe v. wade because he thinks it's politically expedient. i told him in that same conversation driving by his golf
course. i said, mr. president president elect, you ran against the, we're not going to abandon our principals be not on america is far from the hard right but so is the mainstream of the republican party. and they've tried to hide it offer cover it up and now he does all the showy stuff, that's what he's done to try and cover it up. but it just won't work. but what's changed are his politics, his views, which he never held deeply on just about anything. it's all about him and his ego and what he thinks works at the moment. one of his biggest pr that from one moment to the next he just since from one thing to another and it's not working for him. >> not working at all.
senator chuck schumer, as always, it's great to you have on and thanks for watching. >> 10-6, barnicle. giants will be 10-6. >> you're dreaming. stick with trump. >> i'm an optimist on everything. >> and the knicks are going to win the nba championship next year. >> i'm not that much of a dreamer. >> senator chuck schumer, thank you so much. we will be back with more "morning joe." ♪ ♪ ♪ applebee's new loaded fajitas. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. applebee's new loaded fajitas. we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too
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and that dependability is what we want to give our customers. at comcast, it's my job to constantly monitor our network. prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible. my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. so kasie hunt, let's break down the options for the american people in terms of getting results out of washington given what happened over the past 24 hours. i mean, infrastructure and a lot of these meetings over things that can be put on the table that are optional and that should be. what about the thanksgiving tin be done? how is it going to happen given what we've seen? >> i'm completely unclear on how it's going to happen, mika.
yesterday we have had a lot of bad days in terms of how this president works with this congress. yesterday was possibly the low point, certainly a major low point. you're right, doing a big infrastructure package is optional. congress doesn't have to do that in order for the country to keep on functioning relatively normally. there are several things for which that is not the case. a huge one is disaster relief. this used t congress. everyone was on board with helping people who had been hurt by hurricanes, tornadoes, floods. puerto rico has been waiting over a year, farmers in iowa have been waiting months. we're hearing the disaster negotiating bill fell apart. and wire not even talking about a series of government shutdowns or giant fiscal crisis looming,
they have to pay the debt ceiling, fund the government, pair our military. members on the hill usually have been in a good place, like they could solve these problems but nobody knows what the heck this president is going to do and you can't govern under those circumstances. >> it seems fairly unprecedented. and moving from what we are supposed to be doing for the american people in terms of the government to now to the core of who we are and how this presidency is impacting it. we're learning new details about a previously unreported death of a migrant child. authorities announced yesterday that a 10-year-old el salvadoran girl with a history of heart defects died in u.s. custody last year. she died of fever and
respiratory distress at a hospital in nebraska. no other information about the girl was made public other than she was in a medically fragile state when she entered the u.s. this previously unreported case marks the sixth death of a migrant child after crossing the southern boreder in the last eight months. i don't know where to begin, eddie glaude. number one, that this was unreported. can you argue they did not want this information to get out and the information they do reveal, when this information is disclosed by an official in the government is their excuse for why she died, which this government and this president will not take any responsibility for these children who were separated from their parents, for these children who are dying in our custody and we are not going given the information on this. there's so many problems at stake here. >> right.
so, first of all, it reveals that this policy at its root is evil. i want to just say that up front it's evil. >> it is! the fact a 10-year-old child ash 10-year-old girl, this is somebody's baby, was already taken from them, in the custody of a country supposedly committed to democratic principles, reveals the debt of our descent and it also -- it is happening in some ways, it happening in plain sight because the policy, the policy is still in place. and what the binnality of evil shows is you just have to be complicit in your silence in some ways. so in a 10-year-old baby reveals the baseness of who we are in some ways.
and weep have to call it for what it is. it's evil. >> meek this story hasn't been covered in depth because the government refuses to allow us to know, we do not know the number of children held in a large-scale orphanage in the united states of america. we have reports that each week in al pass owe exports at the airport, hundreds of children are lined up and put on palace dispart if a sults in america. the chrn are cordoned off it the to ask them their ladies and gentlemens, what country they're from, what state they're going to, what that's going to be their destination? but the bottom line gets to what
eddie gloud just told us, this policy is not only evil, it is outrageous and would scar the soul of any american who spends more than five seconds thinking about what we're doing up under the guise of the united states of america. >> and for this president and for the people around him, now we've lost some of the major players in this administration who seem to make you feel like they had a sense of duty that went beyond the president, patriotism to the country. we've got a lot of lackeys around this president. where is the separation czar? where is the person giving the country answers where are you in this? can you get him to understand how you know, quite frankly, where is the freedom of the press and access to information so that there's transi want to
know what happened when she got sick. was she dying alone in her room? where was she? who was with her? what's her story? why don't we know about these children? why can't we see them? they are in u.s. custody. this is our problem. small, young children to teen-agers to girls to boys who are being taken away from their families, from their parents and left alone in our custody and some of them getting sick, issually abu -- sexually abused dying. how sick? ivanka, jared, anybody, get to him or say something, step out alone and say something.
do something. it's really, it's the core of who we are and it's humiliating for our country on the world stage. we'll be right back. the matters.ar... introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger, it's the right gear. with a terrain management system for... this. a bash plate for... that. an electronic locking rear differential for... yeah... this. heading to the supermarket? get any truck. heading out here? get the ford ranger. the only adventure gear built ford tough.
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michael avenatti is in even more legal trouble. yesterday the high-profile attorney general was charged with stealing over $300,000 from his former client stormy daniels. he allegedly used a fraudulent document according to -- the indictment says michael avenatti spent some of that trips and eventually gave them half of the money she was owed. avenatti referred nbc news to a tweet, quote, no monies related to ms. daniel were ever m
misappropriated. she directly paid $100 for all that she received. i look forward to a jury hearing the evidence. also yesterday avenatti was formally indicted for allegedly trying to extort $20 from nike and embezzling a client's settlement money. good lord. now to the month's long investigation into virginia governor's ralph northam's medical school year book photo in black face and another in a ku klux klan robe, inconclusive, they couldn't figure it out. they interviewed staffers and alum night and while the feature photo was not placed accidentally, no one could identify the origin and whether
the governor appeared in the picture at all. i hope they didn't have to pap for that investigation. geoff bennett covered the story. jeff, what can you tell us about the investigation and then i want to hear exactly about how people in virginia are feeling about the virginia. >> they certainly paid that law firm to do that nearly four-month long investigation. leading up to the announcement yesterday, i'd been hearing from people close to the governor, the governor's office got a heads up about what was in the report and they told me this thing was going to exxonerate governor northam. turns out it was entirely inconclusive. they talked to his former classmates and people who were on the year book staff. the one thing they did say, they said that northam's suggestion that someone put this picture by mistake, they said there was no information, no evidence to back that up. we also learned that evms, this
medical school, knew about the existence of this photo as far back as 2013 but the current medical school president said he didn't come forward with it because he didn't want to make the school look at if they were being in any way political. but, look, i talked to people there in virginia and what i've heard from them is what i've heard all along, especially from people who self-identify as democrats and particularly from african-american folks there in virginia. i talked to people in richmond. ralph northam's standing among black voter, he outpaces where he stands among white democrats. the reason is a lot of the older african-american voters bring a certain level of pragmatism to this, they say, yes, that photo was heinously racist. but they also say we've seen
worse and they're not going to hold him to account for what he did 35 years ago. we're going to hold him to account for the kind of governor he is now. and all too often you hear politicians say i take full responsibility. what does that really man? governor northam is trying to develop racial equality. he's trying to make amends here, mika. >> see he has been able to govern, in spite of this? >> yes. >> there was a question whether or not he could govern. we remember that mess, it was not only northam, it was the lieutenant governor. so this investigation is inconclusive, we haven't heard anything, and yet they're still able to govern? >> i'll tell you this, he has been able to govern in the sense he is pushing forward policies
and legislation. he disappeared completely off the march. he's trying to resume that, but he has put forward these policies that are getting the backing of sm peacekeeper the legislature is run by republicans so that's always an obstacle but from what i'm told he's trying to resume some semblance of a normal governorship. >> geoff bennett, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. >> up next, after confusing a common real estate term for a cookie, hud secretary samms the woman.
we're backjust a moment. we're backjust a moment. >> i suspect when katie porter was an expert in this area, things were very different. that's why i invited her to speak with our staff that deals with these so they can bring her up to date. maybe she would then be able to understand what's going on. >> for mr. carson to now go on tv today and say that i'm the one who doesn't know what's going on and he would be happy to inform me is frankly very rich. i spent more than ten years in the trechbes with families who were facing foreclosures and listening to their problems. i want mr. carson it particular this very seriously. i'm working to make each day a little sweeter.
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the president and his sornl. >> what is your hold deutsche bank with failing to do oversight and respond to the controls with regard to deutsche bank? >> i will follow up and make sure that deutsche bank has policies that are the same as everyone. >> congressman powoman porter js now. thanks for coming back. first of all, let's just put a period at the end of the sentence with ben carson, who was actually questioning your credibility and your ability to do the job and know the issues. to that you say what? >> i think mr. carson is attempting to fix what was a a
hearing that terribly awry, i was incredibly disappointed both in his preparation and answers not just to me but my other colleagues. instead of getting defensive and hurling accusations to me, i'd like him to double down on doing his job, study what's going on with the low and moderate income home buyer program. the most common outcome of an fha loan go to an r.e.o. status. when he said when fha loans go to foreclosure that they are sold very quickly when point in fact clearly demonstrated by industry data is that fha loans that go to foreclosure take
nearly two years to return to our housing market, during which time they become blighted and are not available under affordable housing. these are the facts that i want mr. carson to grapple with on behalf of behalf of american taxpayers. >> do your homework or resign. moving on to secretary mnuchin, from your testimony -- from his testimony that you heard yesterday and as it pertains to the president's tax returns, his financial records from deutsche bank and mnuchin's position on them, do you think he works for the president or for the american people? i'm not saying what he should be. what do you think he's doing? >> i think in the hearing he did demonstrate -- he doubled down very clearly that he had not relied on any conversations with the president, with the white house or with others outside of the treasury department and the
department of justice in reaching his decision not to provide the tax returns, which in my opinion lawfully must be provided. so si think i think he attempte demonstrate eindependence. he appears to be trying to say this is my ambition, i have zero doubt and i wouldn't want to be in mr. mnuchin's shoes right now, because his decision and interpretation of the tax law and the rule that requires a disclosure of tarks returns here is just dead wrong. >> yesterday you indicated quite accurately, many people think, that you didn't think secretary carson was up to doing the job that he holds. so i'd like to ask you a question about the job that he holds and about its impact on specific citizens in this country. in this case we'll start with your district in orange county and in l.a. county where i'm told by friends of mine who live
out there that they often have two to three-hour commute back and forth to work for lack of affordable housing in both orange county and l.a. county. what's the status of the federal government's position and movement in the department of housing and urban development in building more afford blg housing not just out in your district but throughout the country where it's vital. >> there is an affordable housing crisis definitely in southern california and a lot of parts of coastal california. our economy is growing, we have people able to buy houses but it also means that the supply doesn't keep up. we have both a rental affordability crisis and we have a homeowner ship crisis and the housing and urban development department has done little to address either of these things under secretary carson. to the contrary what we've seen is he's increased rents for those in public housing.
he showed zero understanding of the magnitude of the low income rental affordability crisis. my colleague asked him how many people are on the wait list for low income housing vouchers. he said a couple hundred thousand. the answer she correctly gave is 4.4 million. so this is an issue that affects millions of americans and it affects everybody because when a low income family is pressed into housing they can't afford that's one less dollar they have available to take care of their children, to put in their retirement account, and to become self-sufficient and stable. >> i want to ask you a last question going back to secretary mnuchin. the president yesterday used the phrase the i word with respect to himself and there's now among a lot of your colleagues imdisabout whether for instance the attorney general should be impeached. mnuchin is getting some of that
criticism as well. do you think that there is going to be a movement, i know congressman swal well and others are talking about mnuchin as somebody that needs to be impeached. do you think that's the move they need to take? >> we move in a dlib ratieliber. mnuchin's appearance and he answered every question that was put to him should give us confidence that we should give more opportunity for this to play out. it doesn't mean we should hold him 100% accountable for following the law. my opinion and the opinion of every orr lawyer that i know he is refusing to comply with the lawful requirement that the secretary of the treasury shall provide tax returns period. full stop, you cannot read any excuses into that and his assertion that executive privilege may apply or does apply to that situation is completely incorrect. executive privilege applies only
to advice so deliberate materials. it's about how to protect people as they make decisions. tax returns are final documents and they must be provided. i personally would like to give mr. mnuchin more opportunity to comply with the law but if he doesn't we'll have to figure out what to do next including taking him to court. >> congresswoman, thank you very much for everything that you do. still ahead, senate majority leader is standing by. he'll join us live to talk about the president's rose garden meltdown yesterday. it was all planned out. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed,
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♪ ♪ applebee's new loaded fajitas. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. what's your verdict, this is a simple question, is he competent to do the job? >> no. >> can he do the job? >> no, he is not and more and more people are seeing it and i think the show if you will is to try to divert attention from that but over a period of time you may enjoy the show the first few days you go but if you have to sit there and watch it every day for four years or two and a half years you get tired of it. his personality hasn't changed much. he's always been a bully. he's always tletsenned. he's always sued. he's always misstated stuff and he always had a way of appealing
to sort of the dark side of people even when he was a public figure, getting stories in the new york post and stuff like that. what's changed is politics and that's because he has no principles. he has no deep believes. it's all about him and his egoand what he thinks at the moment. >> it is thursday, may 23rd. along with joe, willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. national affairs analyst, jon heilemann. white house reporter for the associated press jonathan le lemire. >> so let's really quickly summarize, willie, what happened yesterday for people that are just tuning in on the west coast here. the president of the united states call over once again democrats and republicans alike like he did with immigration, like he's done in the past with infrastructure only to end upturning it into this -- just -- this child like
performance, which was embarrassing on all fronts but unfortunate lit it's the people that are going to be hurt because once again infrastructure weekends up being a bust. >> every week is infrastructure week for me, joe. i know you know that. the president of the united states got the leaders to talk about infrastructure. he came in and john lemire can fill us in on the details. he spent about three minutes bark at the democratic leadership and said you guys, if you continue these investigations i'm not going to do business with you and walked out of the room without any conversation. did not sit down in the chair that was left for him, jon and then went outside and we're led to believe this was a spontaneous reaction that he marched in the room, marched out, walked into the rose garden where a podium was set up with a placard that said no collusion and laid out some of the details
about the mueller investigation. >> it was months in the making since the president basically laid down an edict and said we either work together or you can investigate me. we can't do both but more than that, and this is about the president and his re-election campaign making a decision that they're putting they electoral interests aid head of the probe. they're making a calculation that's how we can win re-election. we're going to say that this is not going to be -- there's not going to be domestic policy. we're not going to run an an agenda of new ideas. we're going to run on the concept of vilifying the democrats saying they are overreaching politically and say they this is a president who's kept the economy going and deserves another four years. certainly the president was angry about pelosi's comment about the coverup but it was more than that. the night before according to our reporting when a number of ex- aides including hope hicks
was given a subpoena. that sort of sent him into a rage and he went out there yesterday, you see the signs right there holding up that graphic which is from abc news listing stats on the cost and breadth of the mueller probe, he didn't hold up the second part of the graphic which lists the number of indictments that the investigation yielded. so this is a president trying to deny the fur facts of these probes. >> and for everybody out there who would want to believe the president of the united states and just ignore the facts, when he says it's a witch hunt, of indicted in jail. number two on the campaign, indicted, ended up doing a plea deal. you have his personal lawyer for years indicted, convicted in jail. you have his top foreign policy person as he told the "washington post" back in may of
2016, sent to jail. i mean, we go down the list. his national security advisor convicted of a felony and did a deal and now roger stone possibly also heading to jail. we'll see how that turns out. jon heilman though, there are a lot of things enraging the president of the united states. he is a strong man. he wants to be a strong man at least. he doesn't understand checks and balances. he doesn't understand congress has oversight powers and he certainly doesn't understand or respect the role of judges that they are a coequal branch along with the executive branch. he's had one bad decision after another. so all of that is upsetting him but there's also a political problem for the president. he got out ahead of his conference. he talked about this $2 trillion infrastructure deal and -- billion and immediately everybody on capital hill said oh, my god, we don't have enough money for that. >> yeah, i mean, look, the whole
thing has always seemed ludicrous to me. the president had the opportunity to change the administration had he decided to when democrats, nobody knew what to make of him. he was coming in and he could have been democrats in a terrible position. the president had run on infrastructure, talked about it a lot more than he talked about health care in 2016. he'd come in right off the bat and done an infrastructure package democrats would have been hard pressed to resist him and you could have changed the whole dynamic in washington had that been what he wanted to do from day one but he decided he was going to make this first thing, tearing down the afford l care act and that's the only moment it seemed to me there was an opening to do the kind of thing on infrastructure that is theoretically being bantied
about. there's been no will on the side of the republicans. the president's always been on the wrong side of his conference about this and he got himself as he often does out of riskies and talking about this to begin with but he did make a political point yesterday. i don't think it worked at well for him for reasons we've described but it's how he tried to deal with the problem he had to try to make some kind of lemonade out of those lemons. >> and representative of california, jane harmon. joe? >> so we worked together in congress. you were a democrat that liked working with a republican. there have been to be a few of those people left on capitol hill. elijah cummings and i loved working together, got a lot of stuff done. i mean, there have to be -- is there anybody left on capitol hill that is worried about what people are doing in youngstown,
ohio or anywhere? they've got to -- how do they break out of this grid lock. >> let me say a couple things joe. congratulations, mika, on yesterday. >> thank you. >> those of us who were around during the 1998 impeachment are are very small number right now in congress, there are 77 house members and 22 senators who were even around in 2002 voting on the authorization to use military force in iraq. it's a whole new crowd. the old dis whom i still love are people like steny hoyer who's coming up in a minute. roy blunt in the senate. they love to do deals together. we gave them a joint bipartisanship about six months ago. so yeah, a few people so if we don't get back to putting the country first we're going down a deep hole to who knows where. while we're all absorbed in what
happened yesterday and the temper tantrum the administration is sending thousands of troops potentially in harms way to the middle east somewhere undisclosed but presumably in military bases where they could potentially be targets if i iran wanted to do something malign and iran does do malign things but the strategy is what? the north korean leader is still testing missiles and calling some of our candidates like joe biden bad names. we seem to have given up on venezuela. i worry that there is no process that is really working here while we have these little fights in washington and infrastructure matters. let me not disparage that. i think we should have done more in the obama administration too. that's how you build good jobs and america in a world that's maybe moving away from us and embracing some products and taking a different direction on 5g, the new communications capacity is not going to be in
good shape. >> all right. let's bring in the majority leader of the u.s. house of representatives. steny hoyer of maryland who was in the meeting yesterday with the president. always great to see you. we love having you on the show, love seeing you when we get to the hill. it's certainly a different place than it was when we worked together. but even -- i brought this up earlier, even during the height of impeachment, bill clinton and republicans on the hill worked together. you all got things done. that's not happening now and yesterday seems like it only took us even further away from that place where you could have political disagreements, but still work for the good of the people. >> joe, i think yesterday was a sad day and it was a day on which there was no meeting. you correctly and others correctly observed that the
meeting never started. the president came in as if he was going to attend the meeting and then simply walked out in effect. it was a bizarre performance, an unfortunate performance for the america people because what he said is, if you're going to continue to do oversight, if you're going to continue to conduct your responsibilities under the constitution to oversee the executive department, then i'm not going to cooperate with you and i'm not going to do the people's business. this is not for democrats. the country needs infrastructure. the country needs infrastructure, the president agrees on that. we agree on that. republicans and democrats agree on that and the american people agree on that. the chamber and labor agree on that, but yet the president of the united states who represents all the people came in and said, i'm not going to do the people's business if you continue to do oversight. the irony is, when we met three weeks ago, we were doing oversight. he didn't refuse to meet with us. and in fact, he made a suggestion of a number bigger than the one we suggested in
terms of investment and infrastructure. but it seems to me that he is acting like a man cornered. he sees that the courts are not sustaining his coverup, his refusing to respond, his ordering people not to testify, ordering departments not to turn over documents. i think he feels that things aren't going his way and this is his response. it looks to me like he feels cornered. but the fact is we're going to continue to do our business. the russian involvement in our elections was a very, very serious matter unrelated to trump, unrelated to democrats and republicans, but related to our democracy. it is our responsibility to not only find out exactly what happened, but also to take steps that it can't happen again. >> right. and it's very important, i want to stop you right there and go to willie for a question, but willie, steny brings up a great point that a lot of times donald
trump will say this russia investigation was a hoax. willie, you know who didn't say it was a hoax? the fbi director that donald trump appointed, the cia director that donald trump appoint appointed, the entire intel community and even his secretary of homeland security az greed with everybody else that this russian threat was a quote, threat to american democracy. some witch hunt. i mean, the threat to american democracy by all of trump's appointees. >> and robert mueller laid it out in a two-year investigation chapter and verse how russia did it. there's a threat. the president can say of course there's a threat. we need to do something about it. i didn't even do anything with it. but i want to go to you who has deep relationships with
republicans and friendships. we don't hear from them publicly criticizing president trump especially in moments like we saw yesterday. i'm curious. what did they say to you as they watched that yesterday? what are they saying? >> frankly i didn't have very many discussions. again, another unfortunate fact is the republican leadership and members, while they say some things from time to time that clearly indicate that they realize that this is not a president who's acting in a way that he ought to be acting, are very reticent, very -- i don't know whether they're afraid, whether their political judgment is, they don't want to get at odds with the president but they are reticent in calling him out and when he does bizarre things kind ofermine the ability of republican obviously pretty much out of the main stream of his party in terms of cooperating with the party, you know, he
read the document that mueller put forward. he made a conclusion that he believes that there are impeachable offenses that this president has committed. but no other republican has done that and my predecessor larry hogan frankly did that who passed away just recently, did that with respect to richard nixon and he was ostracized by the party and so i think that's one of the things they're concerned about, but they are too silent. they have a responsibility as we do to speak out in defense of their country and in defense of the interests of the american people. not to the president of the united states, but to the constitution and to our democracy. >> so that point, sir, you know, we have situation where we were talking earlier about children separated from their families and another migrant child dying in custody, something that the trump administration did not disclose to the american people.
we have an issue with transparency, we have an issue with the press being maligned and threatened. and -- and from the president himself, and then we have an issue of all these stories we're covering in terms of oversight, subpoenas, and requests for information. what is your job, what is the job of congress? and is our system prepared for a president that says no? is so unbelievably, i would say stone walling is a term that seems too light at this point. is our system ready for a president who will not cooperate with the law? >> mika, the bad news is what you just said. he will not cooperate w law. he believes he's above the law. he believes the law does not apply to him. the good news is we've seen two cases just over the last few days which indicates that the courts at least at the lower
levels and hopefully they will be affirmed by the intermediate court of appeals and the supreme court if it gets to the supreme court, will affirm the fact that no person including the president of the united states is above the law. and will affirm the fact that the congress of the united states under the constitution is given the responsibility to oversee the executive department. that's the check and balance. that's the ability that the representatives of the american people to get information that the american people need, not just the congress, the american people need to make judgments that we expect them to be the final arbitors in a democracy. so that's what'ssa sad about this president. he does not appreciate the strengths of the checks and balances, the strengths of oversight and frankly the strength of the judicial system which is frankly in the immigration issues and so many other issues and now in this issue of refusing to give information to the congress to
which they are entitled, the courts are saying no, mr. "power & politics," we are a nation of laws and they apply to you as well. >> congressman hoyer, you've sat with several presidents. you've sat with this president. you'll be sitting with him i assume. let's set aside the charade that was yesterday and i want to ask you a specific and very simple question. when you sit with this president to talk about infrastructure or anything else, do you trust him? >> very frankly, michael, the sad thing is that there are too many instances where i've sat with the president in the white house, daca is a perfect example where he says one thing and that representation lasts for minutes, hours, maybe a few days at most and then the position changes. so when you're sitting there talking as for instance on infrastructure, we had a positive meeting. you saw we all came out saying
we had a positive meeting. the president came up with a figure higher than the one we suggested but herb agreed we needed to do infrastructure. i was one of the last ones to speak and i said, mr. president, we're all for infrastructure, it will not happen if you do not lead. and what we saw yesterday was a refusal to lead. now, whether he thinks it's too tough to lead or whether he thinks his party doesn't -- and as a matter of fact in the meeting he said you know, my party does not agree with me on this so it wasn't a surprise to him that what he was proposing on infrastructure may not be supported by his party but he believed it was in the best interest of america, but unfortunately yesterday he abandoned any leadership, any desire to move forward any constructive engagement with the congress of the united states. >> house majority leader steny hoyer. thank you so much. and jane, i want to ask you
about this. russia's vladimir putin outprepared president trump for a vital 2017 meeting at the g20 in germany which put the united states at a distinct disadvantage. talk about someone who makes the world -- worst deals ever. that is the testimony of rex tillerson to the house foreign affairs committee on tuesday, per a new report in the "washington post." tillerson added that the administration expected a short meeting to exchange courtesies, however, it turned into a more than two-hour sitdown which involved discussions about a variety of global geo political issues where putin was able to push for things he wanted. in response, trump said in a statement that he quote, was perfectly prepared for my meetings with vladimir putin. we did very well at those meetings. and rex tillerson did not mince
words at this hearing. how would you describe this president's foreign policy doctrine given what rex tillerson disclosed? >> well, rex tillerson tried admirably. left the administration early and many looking at his tenure think that there never was a good fit there, but i commend him for his service. as far as the president goes i said earlier that there's just no process. process includes preparing for meetings, anticipating what will be said and making sure that the president in the room is surrounded by those who can help support him through the meeting. v vladimir putin is an experienced kgb guy. these meetings are very serious probes into how countries interact with each other. vladimir putin has a long record now of interfering with democracy in europe, of
destabilizing the u.s. around the globe. he's a growing presence in the middle east. some of that didn't happen on trump's watch but it is happening big time now and to go to a meeting with him without that kind of bench seems to me to be a very misuse of presidential power. let me just say a couple other things about process. you know, again, i mentioned we're sending troops now to the middle east. as dave often say, former general pa petraeus, how does this end? what is confrontation with iran supposed to lead to? if it's supposed to lead to conversation and some better deal, why didn't we stay in the last deal where we had russia and china on our side plus europe and push for a better deal? why are we making the hard liners stronger in iran, risking a miscalculation that could lead to war and not paying atrengste
to other things that need attention including domestic agenda. let me say one thing about impeachment. i was a young lawyer in the senate during the nixon impeachment and i voted against the clinton impeachment in 1998. it is destabilizing to do impeachments. in the nixon case it was bipartis bipartisan. bill cohen voted with the majority to impeach and when vicks ton was told he'd be convicted he was resigned. in '98, the whole government stopped. those who tried to impeach lost seats in the next election. let's be careful. it's a political remedy. it makes people go to their corners. nancy pelosi gets this. she's doing the right thing to tamp this down and use the court process which is the right process to find the truth. >> democrats be careful and they should be careful.
>> well said. >> as i said before because some republicans lost good number of republicans lost in 1998. newt gingrich lost his speakership in 1998 because the majority was whittled down to four and bill clinton left office with 60% approval ratings. >> let history be a guide. >> so as nancy pelosi has said unless there is bipartisan support for impeachment it only ends up taking people to their corners and only ends up helping the president who is impeached but then acquitted in the senate. and that is what donald trump is banking on. >> to use your words, joe, this ends badly. former congresswoman jane harman, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," it's a story 18 years in the making. an american member of the taliban caught on the battlefields of afghanistan. today, john walker lindh is selt
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we're learning more disturbing details about the man called the american taliban who's now been released from prison according to reports. joining us now from the federal prison where john walker lindh served his time. what are you hearing? >> reporter: good morning. we're still trying to confirm that report that he has been released here from the federal prison in indiana. suffice it to say this is his official release date. he's served 17 years in prison. the balance of his term will be on probation, supervised release and there are some strong restrictions here. he had to agree to these in order to secure his release today. one of them is that he agreed to have his electronic communications closely monitored and any communication
electronically will have to be in one language only and that is english. he is also told to refrain from having any communications in his possession or to view islamic or terror related material. he has had to surrender any passports for any kind for any country so that will restrict his travel here to the united states and as is custom, prisoners with good behavior can be released on probation after serving 85% of their term. that is the case here. he would go back to the jurisdiction in which he was convicted. he was convicted in 2002 in the eastern district of virginia. pete williams reporting this morning that his family, his parents said they have made arrangements for him to live in virginia. we don't know how long that is. if he needs to move he will have to of course while he's under supervised release he will have to get permission from the justice department to do that and keep coordination and contact with the department of
the bureau of prisons i should say. so the big question is whether his head has changed, whether his world view about terrorism as changed and interestingly, upon his conviction and at his sentencing hearing he told the court that he felt he made a mistake joining up with the taliban. he didn't realize he said that they were anti-american but some new letters and correspondence that took place in 2015 shows a much different tone from john lindh. he communicated with our affiliate in los angeles and in a series of letters, he basically praised isis in one of those letters. thought they were doing a spectacular job and this is right after the time that james foley was one of the americans beheaded on camera. so a lot of the people were compelling the president even to try to get him to hold him in prison a little bit longer. >> great summary of that story.
multiple reports say john walker lindh captured two months after 9/11 found fighting with the taliban has been released from prison. >> he was apprehended early on in the war in afghanistan and one of the first victims -- american victims of the war in afghanistan was a cia agent killed during the prison uprising that mr. lindh was involved in. he was 32 years of age. he died. he is one of the stars on the wall, the honorary -- the wall honoring the dead sea ie agents who have performed services for the united states of america. we should not forget him. >> a cia officer killed shortly after 9/11. let's go to tensions rising with iran. the pentagon now planning to
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welcome back. joining us now, a former army ranger who earned a bronze star during the invasion of iraq and who also served two azigsdditio tours in afghanistan. jason crowe of colorado. good to have you on the show and boy, what you are doing right now is speaking my language. you're introducing a bill that
would require that congress have access to ice detention facilities. this is about transparency and understanding where these people are, how they're being treated, what's happened to them, what's their story and are we acting in an american way as we handle migrants and detainees. tell us what you're looking for specifically and what kind of support do you have especially from republicans? >> good morning. good to be with you. you're absolutely right. this is about transparn si and good government. you know, i fundamentally believe that government works better when people have access to information about what's happening. i have a big air force base in my district. i have a large va facility in my district. i can go to that air force base and conduct oversight there. i go to the va hospital all the time and check on the operations there, but i can't get to this detention center. it's hard to get oversight and information so this is just about good government and transparency and making sure that taxpayer money is being
used the right way and that what's happening is consistent with the values of our community. so we're going to work hard to get bipartisan support for this. i think everyone should be interested in making sure that we know what's happening in our government agencies and that we have oversight. >> and perhaps i'm naive or something but i would like to know about this six thd child that died in american custody, a 10-year-old girl from el valve doo -- el salvador. did she have her family or was she separated? how did she actually get there? why don't we know? aren't we supposed to know? what is the process? >> yeah, well, i'd like to know too, but this is part of a larger trend that we don't have the transparency through ice and dhs that we need to have. i have now submitted two letter requests to the department of homeland security and ice and about my facility and my district and about facilities
nationwide. i had three disease outbreaks in my facility and i can't get answers about it. this is a public health issue. it's an issue of the health and welfare of the detainees. it affects the people that live around the facilities as well as the people in the facilities. this administration continues to stone wall not just on this but other things and again, this is about transparency and i think congress has an important role, a constitutional role in making sure we're asking these questions and getting answers but we just can't get to the bottom of it and that's what my act gets to the core of is making sure something is in place so we can get the oversight we need. >> i have a basic question. speaker pelosi yesterday said that it was clear that donald trump has engaged in obstruction, that he was engaging in a coverup. is obstruction an impeachable offense and irrespective of the politics is it the congress's
responsibility to hold him accountable? >> well, what's clear to me is that there's far more questions at this point than there are answers. why isn't this president allowing people to testify before congress? why aren't they providing documents to committees that have the right to have them. why is he continuing to prevent his taxes from being disclosed when president after president, republican and democrats over the last few decades allow his taxes to come forward. if he says there's nothing to hide here why are they going through all this effort litigating in the courts, trying to prevent this information from going forward so i'm about process. i don't like jumping to conclusions. i don't like labeling things as much as some other folks do. i think we need to follow the process. i mean, go through to make sure that we're earning the trust of the american people. with ecan show that government works for them and that's what we're doing. we're going through a process to get information and that's what i'm going to continue to push for. >> hoyer said something similar
to this. he said the process is slow and steady but if we are in a crisis moment where our democracy is in jeopardy where it seems as if the termites are in the foundation, eating at away at the wood, should we not be a little bit more in some sorts of ways, shall we say alarmed by what's going on and democrats should be a little bit more aggressive in how we're pursuing this particularly with regards to the demands? >> i'm a combat veteran. some of the most formative experiences of my life were fighting in iraq and afghanistan and leading soldiers in battle. one of the things i learned is that when you're in a very heated situation, when people around you might be losing their cool, it's more important than ever that you know, you collect yourself, that you show that you can be the adult in the room, that you are being deliberate and doing this the right way. so i'm not much for tantrums and theatrics. the president yesterday got
autoand gave a fiery press conference after storming out of a meeting. i have no time for tantrums and theatrics. i'm going to work lard to make sure we're following the process that we need to follow so we can gain the trust of the american people. trust between the american people and government is at an all-time low and there's a reason for that. we have to make sure we're restoring that trust and doing the right thing. >> good to have you on the show this morning. you've served three tours. run in randall county and two in afghanistan. you've seen upclose what war looks like. you don't watch it from a cabinet room in washington, d.c. so as we hear these reports coming out of the pentagon that they're going to present a plan to the president of the united states to send 10,000 more troops to the middle east, you had a quote yesterday that stuck out to me. you said if this conflict escalates it won't be president trump or john bolton putting their lives on the line, it will be our troops as someone who has fought, what are your concerns about the conversation around iran and the united states right
now? >> yeah. well, my military career started as a private. i was private crow and almost nine years later ended as a captain. you know, every day here whether i'm sitting in the armed services committee or doing the other work that i do i think about my time as private crow and captain crow and when politicians talk tough, real people tend to get hurt. so i think about the consequences of that action and i am sensitive to tough talk by mr. boll tton or anybody else f that matter because it's not them on a mission in iraq. there are real consequences to this tough talk. listen, i do know that there are very real dangers opposed by iran. i saw that there the summer of 2003 when i was walking the streets of baghdad with my soldiers. we saw the ieds and how the training and the equipment that was being provided by iranian intelligence to the militias in
baghdad were causing us casualties and we were losing great men and women as a result of that. so nobody needs to lecture me about the dangers posed to iran but i'm a more speak softly and carry a big stick person. we have to maintain a strong presence by realigning forces. i they it's the right thing to do but i am very sensitive to this tough talk and chest pounding. there's no doubt about that. >> wow. that really brought it home. congressman jason crow, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. and still ahead, dow futures are down more than 200 points right now amid ongoing trade concerns with china. we'll go live to the new york stock exchange next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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rhetoric against the united states. there were a few commentaries published in some communist party flagship newspapers going after american moves to curb chinese companies like we've seen with huawei. and official comments out of china saying talks cannot continue unless the u.s. softens its stance. the bottom line, wall street looks at the picture and says we are in for a protracted fight. and that is a whole new calculation from where we were just a few weeks ago on the china trade talks. the other problem at least for investors, there's no new talks scheduled at least on the calendar right now. wall street likes the idea of talks because it could mean they could make progress and get rid of some of the tariffs. another big concern is that the remaining chinese imports, there's $300 billion worth of stuff that comes into the u.s. still that has not been tariffed or taxed by the u.s. that is increasingly becoming
the base case scenario for wall street that president trump will move to put tariffs on those additional imports and they hit. consumer. we're talking everything from cell phones to computers, baby toys. that's what's next on the list. and that could potentially deal a big blow to the u.s. consumer and the entire global economy. that's sort of what's in play on the trade front. we have notes from the last fed meeting yesterday afternoon showing the fed is firmly patient. i.e., no moves. no clues about what the next move is going to be. they're on hold. they're not raising interest rates. they're not lowering interest rates. t it's significant. it could mean more political pressure from president trump on the fed who wants them to cut interest rates and make money easier and policy looser as he continues to fight on with this trade war. >> all right. sara eisen, thank you very much. >> thank you. with us now, let's bring in the best selling author of "the up side of inequality how good
intentions undermine the middle class". ed connor, thank you for being with us. ed, i wanted to bring you on because we've talked around mitt when we've gone to some of mitt's conferences. we've talked a good bit about immigration. it's something you've studied long and hard. and i'm curious what you think about the new plan troded out by the trump administration, trotted out earlier. let's put to the side judging by yesterday it will probably never be implemented but let's talk about the philosophy behind it. >> i think america faces two big problems, paying for the baby boomers and defending itself against china if it becomes as successful as it could be. we need faster growth. i think our economy is constrained by innovation and
the talent that produces it. not by capital. interest rates are near zero today. so we have a shortage of high-skilled talent in the united states. about 8% of our work force scores at the highest levels on academic tests versus, say, 14, 15% of the german economy. and so we have no other policies that can produce the kind of growth that we need to solve these problems besides high-skilled immigration. >> and so i was -- i don't want to talk in shorthand. unfortunately, i didn't set it up for our viewers. the trump plan that was talked about earlier was focusing less on family connections and more on getting high skilled workers into america, so if you want to emigrate into america, much of it depends on what schools you have and what skills you can bring to the united states.
that's a change for the united states. other countries have been doing this for years. >> this is patterned after what canada and australia do which is trying to get the highest skilled immigrants into their countries to try to increase the demand to drive up the wages of the working and the middle class. it's been quite successful in those economies, and i think what's interesting here in president trump's proposal is that rather than being anti-immigration and trying to cut the number of green cards, about a million per year, he's agreeing to hold them constant and shift it from lower skilled immigration to higher skilled immigration. i think between that and the fact that he's signalled he would be open to legalizing the dreamers, i think he stepped a long way toward compromise. i think for political reasons, it's shrewd politics on his part. >> well, that would be actually the outlines of pretty big immigration deal if the
democrats got dreamers, and the trump administration, republicans, got more highly skilled work force as far as immigrants go. it remind me of what tom friedman said. there's the insanity of us having people come to the united states, we educate them and they go across the world to new delhi instead of north carolina to create new jobs. tom would always say when we give somebody from outside the country a foreign degree, we should flip over the degree as they're walking across the stage and staple a green card to it. >> last sunday i went to a graduation at clolombia university, master's degrees were being dispensed. my son got one. >> congratulations. >> the number of people getting a master's in statistics, chemist chemistry, advanced quantum mathematics, all vital industries going forward, i would think, were stunning the
number of people from asia getting those degrees, and you wondered are they staying here? are they taking the knowledge they picked up here and acquired here through hard work and going back to their home country? i don't know the answer to that. i'd like to know your view on it. i'd also like to know your view on why with millions of dreamers that you and joe have talked about, why can we not get this problem solved? >> well, they're all going home. it's not like google and facebook are sitting on their hands saying we can't get the talent. they're skyping it in, and meanwhile the doctors, schoolteachers, bus drivers, waitresses are all working in romania instead of getting that demand from that employment here. and so we're denying the ability of these companies to move this talent to the united states. it's crazy, because it's not like it's -- it's not like they respect taking advantage of this. it's been impossible to reach a compromise because i
democrats have focussed on low skill immigration and not blaming this on th families. they have legitimate points on their side. republicans have been resistance to low skilled immigration because they see it as pressure on low skilled wages and they want high skilled immigrants who tend more to vote republican. we've been at logger heads for a long time. both sides. wasting the most valuable opportunity we have for growth for getting our baby boomers their retirement benefits for defending ourself against china and for driving up working and middle class wages. we have wasted this opportunity for decades because both sides can't come to what would be a common sense agreement by the vast majority of americans? . >> growth is not our only value. if we simply shift to skilled based, it almost would feel as if we're going to throw lady
liberty into the new york river. there are other ways of thinking about this. why are we thinking about high skilled labor and family immigration as an opposition? why do we have to impact this in order to do that? >> i think we're at logger heads, if you want to compromise. >> but -- >> if i was the guy in charge, i would increase high skilled immigration. >> exactly. >> but i'm not and the two sides are at logger head so we need to reach a compromise if we want high skilled immigrants here. neither side will agree to what we just agreed to. how do we solve the problem in the real world as opposed to the theoretical world. one step forward is at the least let's not reduce the number of green cards. let's shift them. my own sense would be the following. if you're thinking about dividing up the pile, increase the pie. that's what our most talented workers do by producing innovation, and then we divide the pie among us. so when we bring in low skilled
immigrants, i don't think we're doing anything that's really helping our working class americans to increase the amount of earnings that they have, and i think in terms of the amount of money we spend on poverty, increasing the amount of poverty we have in the united states is not helping the people who are poor here. so my own sense would be on an economic policy basis, i would be inclined to say it's more valuable to have high skilled immigration for all americans here rather than low skilled immigration. i think low skilled immigration lowers wages and makes employers richer as a result because the labor is cheaper. i don't think that's great for everybody else. >> all right. >> we must continue this. >> thank you for being on. i hope you come back and say hi to mitt for me. >> sure. >> thank you, ed. >> john, where do we go from here? yesterday a big blowup at the white house. nobody is taking the president seriously. it was all an act for whatever reason, but what happens next?
how does washington get anything done? >> i don't think washington gets anything done? i think -- i mean, there's no prospect for any substantive achievement. >> i think we hope something bad doesn't happen. >> i think we're going to be consumed in the impeachment drama which i think now the notion of an impeachment process getting started and the house is i think almost inevitable, and the only question is timing. and then we're going to be into election time. in terms of any kind of substantive progress, i think there's zero chance of that in the next year and a half. >> jonathan, let's since we're pessimistic this morning on "morning joe," something we don't like to be, what is donald trump's next checkers move? >> well, i think john is right. the stand off is going to escalate between the white house and the democratic congress. the impeachment talk will pick up. the investigation will continue and the trump administration is
going to say no, no, and no and try to make this the animated issue for the campaign. they have to hope the president's supporters want to fight rather than say how has this guy made my life any better. >> jonathan, all i can say is in the words of aristotle, go red sox. >> doesn't play checkers. it's tic-tac-toe. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. a lot to get to this morning. our team of extraordinary reporters is here with details on the stories impacting your life today. starting with a federal judge ruling against president trump opening the door for deutsche bank to give the president's financial records to congress. this as new york lawmakers pass a new bill allowing house