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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  May 26, 2019 10:00pm-12:00am PDT

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the neighborhood had everything a burglar wanted to find. private yards, wealthy homes. >> and she had the worst of possible luck in that he picked her? >> yes. >> i'd like to report an attempted break-in. >> a mother home alone. cops race to her front door, as she walks into an ambush in her backyard. >> how does somebody die within a matter of seconds with officers all around her home? >> it's surreal. it was awful. it really just all came crashing down. >> your first thought ot that time? >> it's a burglary gone wrong. >> but the killer, caught red-handed, starts pointing fingers.
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>> he wanted the job done, wanted the burglary staged. >> this a guy who aspired to be a hit man. >> she was a sitting target. >> doesn't that mean that you now charge them all with murder right then. >> i have no facts. >> trying to play cat and mouse. >> he was already really paranoid about being setup and -- >> he held up a note that says "are you wired." >> will they catch their prey? >> you hold your breath. the world kind of stops. >> you never think it's going to be you. >> oh, no, no, no, no. >> reporter: no. the young man is right. in fact, this is the kind of thing that just doesn't happen to anyone. >> no, never. never would have thought i would have ever seen anything like this. >> reporter: no, not here. not in this neighborhood, in this house. but certainly not, surely not at
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the very moment when at least three policemen were just outside the front door and just over the backyard wall not more than 30 feet away. >> we had to be told a few times just to get it in our heads what happened. >> reporter: what happened here in broad daylight under the very noses of the cops was murder. long beach, california. a town that may have been cheated a little in the city pride department. >> a lot of people assume it's like l.a., but it's not. it's different. it has its own identity. >> reporter: do you think it's different culturally? or just -- >> i think so. i think long beach is sort of its own beast. >> reporter: sure. >> it's a little more working class. >> reporter: yes, and it's one of those 50 suburbs in search of a city that everybody calls l.a.
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but long beach is a brawny city unto itself. half a million people, 52 square miles. a busy airport, a big university, an ocean front, a long beach. and its share of wealth and poverty and, of course, crime. lots of scope for a person who is -- >> no shortage of work for, yeah, if you cover crime. >> reporter: tracy manzer covered the police beat at the local paper, "the long beach press telegram." she was fair to the cops. they trusted her. so maybe that's why, one november morning -- >> a contact who was in the police department came over to me in the midst of this sort of press conference and said, you need to go to bixby now. and i was a little taken aback. >> reporter: taken aback because bixby was not a name you heard on the crime beat. >> so it was very clear to me something major was going on. packed up my stuff, ran out the door and got to the scene. >> reporter: the scene was in
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bixby knolls, quiet, affluent, "leave it to beaver" homes on carefully tended tree-lined streets. violent crime is unheard of in bixby knolls, which is just the way they like it here. maybe that's why, if they grew up here or moved here, they rarely leave. like rachel kerns. >> everybody's very friendly. always waving. you don't get that a lot in southern california. >> reporter: rachel still lives in the house she grew up in. >> we were able to play as kids at all hours of the day. we didn't have to worry about anyone ever hurting us or coming after us. it was a really safe neighborhood. >> reporter: but then came that november morning when tracy manzer roared over there in her car. >> i had no idea what i was going to find. but i knew based on how i was told about it that it was going to be something, you know, very bad. >> reporter: oh, and it was. >> i was barely out of my car
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before i saw the homicide lieutenant, the homicide sergeant, two commanders and, obviously, a bank of black and whites. so my first thought was there was an officer-involved shooting. either an officer had been shot and killed or an officer had shot someone. >> reporter: but no, not that. no. what really happened was far stranger than that. >> long beach police department. >> yes, i'd like to report -- i believe we have an attempted break-in going on at the moment. >> reporter: it was a neighbor who saw it, like the start of some dreadful shock movie, rolling out in slow motion. it was 11:03 a.m. >> it's taking place at my neighbors', which is the house just to the west of me. >> okay. one just west to you. >> yes. it's the schockner residence. >> okay. >> reporter: the schockners. the caller's next-door neighbors. several cops responded, were there in minutes. and as they talked to the 911 caller, they heard and saw a
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little white dog barking incessantly from a window at the schockners' house. it was a little american eskimo or something that's called. >> yeah, not a very large dog. >> reporter: yap, yap, yap, yap. >> yappie dog. >> reporter: a petite-framed woman came to the window to see what her dog was barking at. an officer gestured to her, come outside. clearly bewildered, she finally opened the door. >> so he is telling her that they got a call from a neighbor that they saw a prowler. and would it be okay if they looked in her backyard and looked around the house. and she had said that that was fine. >> reporter: but hold on, the woman said to the police, let me grab the key. the gate is locked. >> so she closes the front door, walks through the house and walks out the back door. >> reporter: three cops waited outside the front door. two more cops pulled in right here in the alley behind the house. and then, to their great surprise, the prowler jumped over the backyard wall
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practically into their arms. they searched him. they found jewelry in his pocket and a taser and a cell phone and a knife with blood on it. the cops out front waited for the woman to return. she didn't. 10 seconds. 20 seconds. did a minute go by? they decided, time to go in. they opened the door, looked through the house. and what they saw was not just terrible, but a riddle, a deception, a piece of pure evil. what could have happened in that house while it was surrounded by police officers? >> i didn't believe it. i thought it was a joke. >> until your father arrived with tears in his eyes. >> that was when i knew something was wrong. i wanted more from my copd medicine... ...that's why i've got the power of 1 2 3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved 3-in-1 copd treatment .
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each day justin at work... walk. and after work. he does it all with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort. to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move. it was a mild day that particular november 8th.
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california weather. not quite noon. and as usual, it was quiet in bixby knolls here in long beach. quiet. and in that quiet more menacing than anybody understood. as police, responding to a call about a prowler, waited outside the front door, neither they nor the half-awake homeowner sensed the jeopardy as she closed the door in their faces and went in search of a key for the gate to the yard. seconds ticked by. the dog barked. the woman didn't return. so the cops, still not getting it, went in. too late. >> she was attacked, and she was killed right then and there while the officer was on her front porch. >> reporter: just extraordinary. >> yes. >> reporter: the victim's name was lynn schockner. she was 50 years old. when they found her lying quite dead just outside her own back door, they could clearly see the bright red gash across her throat. how was it possible? the policemen were just outside
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her front door and more cops were in alert mode out in the alley, but the only apparent witness to the silent murder of lynn schockner was lynn's little dog, zoe. horrified officers found her lying by lynn's side, her white coat spattered red. back at police headquarters, long beach cops, like undercover man kris nelson, heard the chatter. >> we were sitting in the office. and we used to have a police radio on in the office listening to what's going on in the street. >> reporter: this was bad. >> we were right down the hall from homicide. and you know, knew right away that this turned into a call-out, you know, where somebody got killed. >> reporter: now, crisis mode. detective richard birdsall took the call. get down there fast. your first thought at that time. do you remember what it was? >> it's just a burglary gone awry. >> reporter: did you have at the same sense, how the hell could we screw up like that? >> like anybody else, you're trying to discern why she did what she did and what did the
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officers say. what was the conversation? >> reporter: oh, yes, there were lots of questions. this would be ugly. why did she go back in the house? why did the cops let her? why didn't they move in faster? how could they let the murder happen right under their noses? >> that was really disturbing, and, you know, you hate to second judge another cop, but there were mistakes made. >> reporter: after all, a neighbor reported a prowler in the back alley. a prowler who may have sneaked into her house. but she, the victim, didn't seem to believe that. >> she had a little -- little eskimo dog that barked at butterflies. and there's nobody in the backyard. this dog would have alerted me to anybody. but -- >> reporter: she was wrong. >> she was wrong. >> reporter: lynn's son charlie was a freshman in high school then. he was sitting in math class. somebody told him he was wanted in the principal's office. on the way there he thought he was in trouble.
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and then when they told him -- >> i didn't believe it. i thought it was a joke. >> reporter: until your father arrived with tears in his eyes. >> that was when i knew something was wrong. >> reporter: his father manfred, or fred as most people call him, came to take charlie home. how was your father? >> upset. i mean, he was definitely -- he was crying. he couldn't drive. you know, i didn't really have eyes for him in that moment, with the -- >> reporter: you're just a mess. >> yeah. >> reporter: and charlie still could not believe what he was hearing. >> it really didn't set in really until i actually saw the house, and then it really just all came crashing down. >> reporter: his home was a crime scene. >> the house was taped off, and there's people going in and out of the house. a lot of neighbors around. like everything you see on tv. >> reporter: you never think it's going to be you. >> oh, no, no, no, no. it's surreal.
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very much so. >> reporter: what does that loss feel like? >> yeah. i can't put it into words. it was tremendous. it was awful. i immediately call mark, and i'm babbling on the phone. like i can't even speak. >> reporter: mark jicha is charlie's uncle, lynn's brother. >> after the initial shock, there's disbelief. i didn't burst into tears right away. i didn't start screaming. i was just stunned. >> reporter: lynn grew up in ohio. she was the baby of the family, the only girl. here she is with her two older brothers, jon and mark. but lynn was not like them. >> she was a tentative girl, whereas my brother and i were very outgoing. >> reporter: their father died young. lynn often fought with her mother. >> co-dependent. love/hate.
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call it what you want. >> reporter: she got married, moved to california with a brand-new husband. it didn't work out. ended pretty quickly. but then one day she went to a ball game, dodgers versus somebody, who knows? and she found him. the right guy. her guy. fred schockner. he was almost 14 years older than she was but didn't seem to matter. didn't hurt either that fred was a very successful man. anyway, this time it clicked. they had an intimate wedding on a boat off the california coast. the captain did the honors, and they lived alone together in that house in bixby knolls until finally, after 11 years, they had a son who grew up to be charlie. as parents, they encouraged him to try new things. >> it was one of the olympics. and we were watching gymnastics, >> it might be trite to say
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and i think like a month later i enrolled in gymnastics. so it was very much a supportive environment. >> reporter: and lynn doted on her only son. >> it might be trite to say this, but she loved him more than life itself. he was the center of her universe. >> reporter: so after what happened, mark flew out to california right away to comfort charlie and fred, and to make funeral arrangements for his only sister, lynn. and at the very same time, as if in another world altogether, a world devoted to the minutia of violent crime, detective richard birdsall poked around the entrails of this burglary gone bad. he could perhaps write up a report, be done with it, make the growing bad press go away. but no, richard birdsall was a troubled man. >> we said, we know something's wrong. my partner and i just feel something's wrong. but we don't know yet. >> reporter: wrong? well, of course, it was. but the wrong the detective had in mind was not the grief or the
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loss or the vitriol thrown at the police. no, it was almost like a smell. the kind that sticks in your nose. something off. one of the strangest things of all was the alleged killer himself. not your typical burglar. >> in his words, he always wanted to be a cop. >> and this wasn't your typical burglary. >> i worked burglary division for four years, but i've never had one come with a device that's used simply for killing.
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young charlie was a lucky kid to grow up in a place like bixby knolls. >> tree-lined streets, beautiful neighborhood. it's a wonderful place to grow up. would ride my skateboard all around the block, take my dog with me. >> reporter: he was lucky, too, to have lynn for a mother. how did she make you feel? >> i guess how a parent should. >> reporter: safe. >> safe, happy, welcome, loving. just good. >> reporter: but now lynn schockner was gone. killed in a burglary. and charlie, just 14 and grief stricken, was so angry at the police. >> well, you didn't do your job. how could -- how could that happen with you being right there? that's just negligence. >> reporter: charlie was far from the only one. this was a broad daylight murder. police officers just outside the
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front door when it happened. i can imagine that people would be kind of upset in the neighborhood. a burglar had been there. >> yes. >> reporter: had robbed a house and killed a woman and the cops couldn't prevent it. >> right. i think the majority of the neighborhood was just stunned and shocked by the violence. you know, how does somebody who's in her own home die within a matter of seconds with officers all around her home? >> reporter: tracy's paper, "the long beach press telegram," was reporting on the community backlash. there was fear and, of course, anger. cops often tend to pull together in the face of a thing like that, but in private, harsh judgments, said the undercover cop, kris nelson. >> i'm sorry. you just don't let her go back into a situation like that. it's police 101. >> reporter: what -- >> at the very minimum, you go with her. >> reporter: so what was the feeling in the department when this happened? >> they [ bleep ] up. >> reporter: detective richard
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birdsall, used to asking tough questions suddenly found himself answering them. you got to think that the department would adopt a bit of a defensive stance at this point because you know the public's going to say, what the hell was going on here? why did you guys let that happen, right? >> yeah, they did, you know, because they're trying to defend the officers. and they didn't do anything wrong. you were waiting for someone to bring you the key. they waited a short period of time, within a minute. you know, they're yelling for her, ma'am, can you come back? hello? where are you? >> reporter: just a minute or so. enough for lynn to surprise the burglar who stabbed her in the neck and grabbed some jewelry and ran into the arms of the police. the detective prowled around the crime scene. >> we see that there's the bedroom drawers were being opened, jewelry. things are thrown around. so it looked like a lot of things in disarray. >> reporter: looked like a standard daytime burglary gone horribly bad, of course, when lynn encountered the robber. but one thing stood out like --
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well, like a bloody knife. >> i worked burglary division for four years. but i've never had one come with a device that's used simply for killing. >> reporter: so time to focus on that so-called burglar caught with a bloody knife in his pocket. name was nicholas harvey. he was 22 years old. and this was unusual. >> he didn't have a criminal background. he'd never been in trouble with the law before. >> reporter: seemed like a reasonably nice young man? >> yeah, very personable. i mean, he came across that way. he wanted to ingratiate himself with us as law enforcement. and you know, in his words, he always wanted to be a cop sometime in his life. >> reporter: and here, he's robbing and killing a woman. >> correct. >> reporter: he'd been an athlete in high school, still worked out a lot. was a personal trainer at his local gym. he was a big muscle-bound sort of character? >> correct. >> reporter: from port hueneme? >> port hueneme. >> reporter: but that's way up the coast. >> that's up by -- yeah, by ventura.
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>> reporter: in other words, about 70 miles from the crime scene. but why would he commit a robbery so far away from home? >> that's one of the flags that immediately came up. >> reporter: when detective birdsall and his partner first asked him, nick gave them an answer that, frankly, still didn't make sense. >> we came at him. and you know, his initial story was, oh, i heard this was a good area. >> reporter: really? there wasn't a good area closer to home? well then nick gave them another answer. >> he wanted to get out of his area. and he worked at a local gym up there where he's a gym rat and worked out with police officers and did martial arts with police officers. he felt they would recognize him. >> reporter: when he said that, did it seem plausible? >> no. it wasn't plausible at all. >> reporter: and one other thing. remember how, when police arrested him, they found jewelry in his pocket? turned out it was fake. even though lynn had lots of real diamonds right there to be taken along with other valuable
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items. >> if you're going to do a daytime burglary and you just killed somebody, you're going to make the effort to get the good stuff. but he didn't. >> reporter: so either nick harvey was the world's worst burglar or burglary wasn't the point of his visit. the detectives pushed him hard. but -- >> he didn't want to change his story. we went at him for hours, and we walked out of there going this is not what it seems to be. >> reporter: just a hunch, of course. no way to prove it. until, 70 miles up the coast, a man picked up the phone to call the police. a family feud. >> i wrote that letter. i signed the letter. i handed it to my sister. and i dared her to give it to him. >> what's that all about? get it! get that butterfly! you know those butterflies aren't actually in the room? hey, that baker lady's on tv again.
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she's not a baker. she wears that apron to sell insurance. nobody knows why. she's the progressive insurance lady. they cover pets if your owner gets into a car accident. covers us with what? you got me. [ scoffs ] she's an insurance lady. and i suppose this baker sells insurance, too? progressive protects your pets like you do. you can see "the secret life of pets 2" only in theaters. "the secret life of pets 2" i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, blem. and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously.
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detective richard birdsall didn't believe for a moment that he was investigating a burglary gone bad. for one thing, a guy doesn't travel 70 miles just to break into a house. but for all his suspicions, birdsall couldn't prove a thing. that is, until a man who knew nick harvey called the police and said --
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>> nick harvey came to him and offered him some money, several hundred dollars to say can you drive me down to long beach? >> reporter: he agreed. they met at a park and ride parking lot, and he drove nick's car. the driver also said nick told him why he needed to go to long beach. >> nick harvey said he was an enforcer for the local drug dealers up there. so he thought he was coming down here just for that one reason. >> reporter: honestly, he had no idea the agenda included murder, said the driver. >> he never knew that he was going to come down to take someone's life. >> reporter: of course, the guy was probably lying. so they put him under arrest. anyway, his claim that he thought he was driving a drug enforcer didn't make a lick of sense. the notion that suburban housewife lynn schockner was somehow tangled up with drug dealers and had been targeted for execution was frankly preposterous. lynn had been living a quiet life for 25 years, married to a man with a lot going for him. >> he was a wealthy man. >> reporter: for years, fred earned top dollar in the aerospace industry. not to mention all the family money he inherited.
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>> they were able to afford things that none of us growing up could possibly afford. we were blue collar working class people, and we didn't know many millionaires growing up. >> reporter: he bought her things, jewelry and that sort of thing? >> well, right out of the gate they bought a very nice home in an exclusive suburb of long beach, bixby knolls. so that was a big step up. >> reporter: mark remembers flying out to see lynn after she got married. >> she was dying to show off her home, show off her new life. >> reporter: lynn seemed happy, said mark. >> she set out i think with special determination, having had her first marriage not last, to make this one work and function. >> reporter: to make a complete family, a desire that only intensified once charlie came
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along. >> she wanted her son to be the best person he could be and would stop at nothing to make sure that he got that. >> reporter: around bixby knolls the schockners were considered a perfectly normal, if upscale, family. certainly not the kind of people who would be targeted by drug dealers. of course, members of the family had a slightly more intimate perspective. mark, for example, loved his sister but found fred a little obnoxious. >> he wasn't shy about dropping hints about the extent of his holdings. >> reporter: mark didn't see them very often. he lived way across the country in georgia. but when he did come to visit in long beach and they went out for dinner, fred always managed to monopolize the conversation then somehow stick mark with the bill. >> cheap. totally opinionated.
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absolutely self-involved. >> reporter: so when he invited lynn and charlie to visit him in georgia -- >> i basically told my sister not to bother to bring him. stay as long as she wanted. leave her old man at home. >> reporter: and on one of those visits, mark told lynn exactly how he felt. >> i said, how can you let someone run your life and forget about yourself? >> reporter: afterwards, he sat down and wrote many of the same things in a harshly worded letter to fred. >> i wrote that letter. i signed the letter. i handed it to my sister, and i dared her to give it to him. >> reporter: did you think she actually would? >> i didn't know, but she did. >> reporter: that took guts. >> it did. it did. >> reporter: and frankly, mark was pleased when, a few years later, after a quarter century of marriage, lynn told him they were splitting, and fred moved out of the house in bixby knolls.
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she changed somehow after your father left? >> she seemed freer, seemed happier, more able to get excited, just really interested in everything and very lighthearted. >> reporter: but her happiness was short-lived. and when mark first heard she was murdered, his mind went to a very dark place. could fred have had something to do with it? but as much as he disliked fred, he just couldn't see it. >> there were no connections in their personal life to this person that committed the crime. >> reporter: no, it seemed pretty clear, fred had nothing to do with lynn's murder. besides, lynn changed the locks on the house after fred moved out. could it be someone she hired to install some protection actually came back to rob her and wound up killing her? after all, such a person would have seen that lynn had valuable things around her house in this
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very nice neighborhood. >> the neighborhood had everything a burglar wanted to find. private yards. >> reporter: sure. >> wealthy homes. >> reporter: and she had the worst of possible luck in that he picked her. >> yes. >> reporter: and now, the family came together in grief. and when he saw fred -- >> we hugged, traded condolences. within five or ten minutes, he mentioned the letter. he said, do you still believe that? i said, no, that's water over the bridge. we need to get on with our family. we need to stick together. >> reporter: fred moved back into the family home. he and charlie and the rest of the family leaned on each other. while around the neighborhood people absorbed the news that police had the driver, a
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possible accomplice, in custody. neighbors wondered were more people involved? >> there was concern that there were others that might come back to more houses and more homes and that they were violent. >> reporter: but that fear soon turned to anger when another bit of news swept through bixby knolls. the police let the driver go. detectives were convinced nick harvey didn't have a motive to commit murder, but just maybe someone else did. >> my partner discovered that there was a person that he talked to multiple times right before the murder. show your gut some love. only activia has billions of our live and active probiotics. a delicious way to enjoy probiotics every day. with 20 years of devotion to gut health. activia. like no other.
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ever since lynn schockner was murdered in her own home as police stood outside, criticism of the long beach police department had been intense. emotions raw. >> the officers were extremely upset. my understanding was one of the officers who was on the call had had a nervous breakdown or, you know, an episode like that afterward because it was just too much for him. >> reporter: detective richard birdsall knew, even as he investigated lynn's murder, that her family was angry with the police. >> yeah, they were. they were upset like anybody would be.
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like the press. i mean, everybody else was upset with us, that we didn't do our job to protect someone's life. because that's ultimately what we're supposed to do. >> reporter: lynn's husband, fred, even threatened to sue the long beach pd for not protecting his wife. and so detective birdsall knew he'd take even more heat when the news leaked out that police had arrested an alleged accomplice of the suspected killer and then, just as quickly, released him. but that's exactly what birdsall did, release the man who admitted he'd driven the killer to the crime scene, but the detective had a plan. >> we actually put an active feed on his phone. we want to find out who he's talking to. we have the driver. we have the killer. now we want to find out if there's more people involved. >> reporter: detective birdsall didn't believe nick harvey was a drug enforcer. just didn't buy it. so he hoped that by releasing the driver and tapping his phone he could uncover what was really going on. there was just one problem. after he was let go, the driver didn't reach out to anyone.
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>> the only person he ever spoke to was nick harvey. >> reporter: no, the driver was not part of a larger web. he had nothing whatever to do with lynn's murder. so he was telling the truth. >> it turned out, yes. >> reporter: dead end. so they kept on digging into nick's background. and remember, this was a guy with a clean record. he came off like a perfectly ordinary young man. >> we talked to the family. i mean, they were all incredulous that he would ever do something like that. >> reporter: nick's family. >> nick's family, correct. >> reporter: incredulous? >> it didn't fit him. didn't fit his persona. never thought he would be capable of doing something like this. >> reporter: so when you asked his family about him, how did they characterize him? >> at that time, he worked out a lot. he was doing steroids but just didn't really have a focus in life. he actually was a trainer for the local gym up there. and that's all he did. i mean, he worked -- did a bouncer at a bar. not in trouble with the law. he wasn't someone that attracted
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trouble to himself. >> reporter: but somehow he'd found plenty of trouble. police started to figure out how when they subpoenaed his phone records. >> my partner discovered that there was a person that he had talked to, frank jaramillo, and multiple times right before the murder. >> reporter: frank jaramillo? >> correct. >> reporter: frank jaramillo, aka el cubano, once managed the gym where nick trained. odd person to call just before committing a murder, unless, of course, he was in on it. how to find out? step one, said kris nelson, go back to nick harvey. lean on him a little bit. >> you got to talk to this guy before he gets arraigned. because once he's arraigned, you're screwed. he's going to get an attorney. >> reporter: sure. >> and his attorney's going to tell him to shut up. >> reporter: just what birdsall and his partner were thinking. so they confronted nick again. now two days after lynn's murder. >> you need to be fully truthful with my partner and i right now because it's only going to, you
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know, benefit you to tell the truth. this is getting uglier and uglier. >> we went at him one last time. tell us your story. he reiterates almost exactly what he said before. >> reporter: which was that he killed lynn schockner because the burglary he tried to carry out went bad. the cops still didn't buy it. >> him and i been doing this a long time, nick. you need to take nick and your responsibility now. take care of nick now, please. be truthful with us because we're not going to stop, nick. him and i, that's our job. >> reporter: and that's when nick's story started to change. >> i might as well break it down for you guys. i was hired to hit the house. i don't know why. i didn't ask. >> reporter: that is, said nick, he was hired to commit a burglary. one that, depending on what he could steal, might prove very profitable. >> what's the amount you were promised? >> what was in the house plus 2500. >> reporter: b.s., said the cops.
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he was hired to kill, and they knew it. because those phone records told a very different story than he did. and finally, nick harvey cracked. >> and i remember nick harvey's words like, yeah, you guys are good. you got me. >> reporter: just like that? >> just like that. and then he cops out. >> reporter: yes, he said. frank jaramillo, the guy they called el cubano, hired him to kill lynn schockner. gave him $2,500 up front, promised $2,500 more when the job was done. why a guy would commit murder for a measly five grand was one question, but a more urgent one was this. who was this el cubano, really? and why would he pay a guy to kill a housewife in long beach? it's always the husband, right? but in this case police didn't seem to think so. >> the detective was very quick to assure me that they had no suspicions of that. seresto, seresto, seresto.
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the plan had been as simple as it was ugly. nick harvey, in exchange for just $5,000, was to kill a long beach housewife named lynn schockner, stage it like a burglary and then get away clean. instead, nick was in jail facing murder charges and detectives were prying apart a conspiracy. nick had already told them he'd been hired by a man named frank jaramillo, who went by "el cubano." >> they wanted the job done, wanted the burglary staged. >> reporter: nick met el cubano at an el torito restaurant, he said, where he was paid half up front. >> what did you do with that money? >> i moved. so i had to buy a bunch of new bedroom stuff. >> reporter: he'd spent the $2,500 on new furniture from a store called the couch potato.
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but when the time came to earn the rest of his money, to kill lynn, he said, for a moment he got cold feet. >> truth be told, when i got there, i didn't want to do it at all. in fact, when i was sitting there, i was sitting actually back by the back of the door and i was -- [ bleep ] part is i actually thought about leaving right when she came up walking. >> reporter: that's when he went into something like fight or flight mode, he said, and he killed her. then he quickly ran into the house pulled out some drawers, grabbed some jewels to make it look like a burglary. but then when he tried to escape, he discovered, to his horror, that the cops were, or appeared to be, waiting for him. so then, listen to this. harvey had a question for the detectives. >> can i ask you a question? i don't know if you guys can answer this. how'd you get there so fast?
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>> neighbor. there's people in the neighborhood. someone saw you get out of the car. >> did you know the cops were even out there? >> not until i got back over the wall and i saw the van. and when i saw the van that's when i said, this has got to be a setup. >> reporter: that is, he thought he was being double crossed by his friend frank, aka el cubano. that's why he decided to stick to the botched burglary story, he said. maybe he'd just get second degree murder. and once he got out of prison, he was going to find frank and -- >> take care of him myself. >> reporter: the detectives played along, of course. let nick dream up whatever conspiracy theory made him happy. but meanwhile, they requisitioned el cubano's phone records, and they found something quite surprising. >> not only had frank jaramillo been talking with nick harvey, but he also had talked to the husband. >> reporter: fred schockner. >> fred schockner. >> reporter: fred schockner,
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lynn's husband of 25 years. on the surface, it didn't make much sense. after all, fred had been cooperative with detectives from day one. and yes, he had moved out of the family house, but he told them the break was amicable. she was my best friend, he said. and yet, not long after the murder, young charlie sought out detective birdsall and whispered an awful question. >> did my dad have something to do with this? >> reporter: charlie remembers what they told him. >> the detective was very quick to assure me that they have no suspicions of that. they don't think that would be something that was happening. and if they had thought that, that they would already have looked into it and not to worry about that. >> reporter: is that what detectives really believed? well, no. >> we had to sit there and look at him in the eye and say, we'll catch everybody who was involved. >> reporter: but not say, we suspect him? >> exactly. >> reporter: they believed they simply couldn't tell charlie or
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the rest of the family what they were discovering. afraid that fred would find out and stop talking to them. so charlie stayed at home with his father. his uncle mark was allowed, even encouraged, to believe that fred was not involved, even as the detectives were getting the real story from the hit man, nick harvey. >> did you know who talked to cubano regarding this? >> yeah. >> who did? >> her husband. >> reporter: so doesn't that mean that you can now go out and arrest jaramillo and fred schockner, charge them all with murder right then? >> we wish. but remember, it's a co-conspirator statement. i have no facts. i've got a statement from one person. >> reporter: that person, nick harvey, was an admitted killer and demonstrated liar. and with the police department under so much scrutiny, they didn't dare arrest anybody without solid proof. just think of the scandal if, on top of everything else, the prosecution failed.
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they did find fred's business card in harvey's wallet, but that wasn't enough either. meanwhile, the public and lynn's family would be encouraged to believe it was a simple case of a burglary gone bad, a murder the cops should have prevented. >> i couldn't go out there and defend my department, as much as i wanted to. >> reporter: you couldn't say anything. >> and i can't tell the press. i can't tell -- i mean, we can't defend ourselves because the suspects, the persons of interest, are the ones we're looking at. we don't want to alert them. we don't want them to get lawyers. >> reporter: and so, inside and outside the long beach pd, the pressure was on. >> and my department wanted a quick resolve because we have a black eye. the press was just beating us up daily because of what we did. >> reporter: so the clock was ticking. detectives needed to prove the murder-for-hire plot, and they needed to do it fast. >> so that was the whole game is trying to play cat and mouse, trying to get more. we want to get them to talk. we want to get them to communicate. >> reporter: but wasn't going to happen, by the look of it.
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even though they kept talking to fred. >> we kept going to the husband. >> reporter: playing dumb, of course, but hoping he'd panic and call el cubano. >> i mean, at the point we were calling almost every day but, again, trying to give a reason so he wouldn't become more suspicious than what he was. >> reporter: oh, just one more question, sir. >> exactly. i felt like columbo. oh, one more, sir. >> reporter: this was a game, of course, with deadly consequences. and it was about to get real. death has a way of bringing people together, as it did in the case of lynn schockner. she was a private woman, had very few friends beyond her son charlie. and yet? >> we had a big service for her. it was amazing how many people came out for my mother. it was nice. i just remember i -- at that point i couldn't even cry. it was just still just depressed and shocked. and i felt bad for that for a long time, but --
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>> reporter: well, that's pretty normal. >> yeah. >> reporter: did the tears come? >> yeah, it took a while, but they did. >> reporter: meanwhile, detective richard birdsall was chipping away at the case but far too slowly for the likes of his bosses at the beleaguered long beach police department still under fire for not preventing a murder. the detectives had found some connections among the three suspected conspirators but not nearly enough to go to court. >> you have a murder for hire. okay, now you've got to go arrest everybody. i'd love to. but do i have probable cause? no, i really don't. i've got to prove more. >> reporter: and you couldn't even say that even one of those people was a suspect. >> correct. and so i was 6'2" when i started and i was 5'2" when i finished because there was so much pressure on me to do i and get an arrest. >> reporter: so the detectives
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kept dropping in on fred, all very nonthreatening.
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mastermind, using his financial leverage to manipulate frank who
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>> >> japan's time-honored customs, and exquisite culture fill us with a deep sense of admiration. i want to thank all of the people of japan for welcoming us to this week sharing your beloved heritage. it is truly an incredible heritage. this visit has also been a chance for the prime minister -- the alliance between the united states and japan is the cornerstone of prosperity and stability in this region and all around the world. the prime minister and i continue our close consultation in support of peace and security on the korean peninsula.
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this is a strong alliance, indeed. the u.s.-japan alliance is steadfast and ironclad. we want peace and we want stability. we continue to hope that german can go -- the united states remains committed to the issue of --. that is a top priority for the prime minister. earlier today i met for the second time with a group of japanese families who have suffered the unthinkable heartbreak of having their loved ones abducted by north korea. the united states will continue to support japan's efforts to bring these abductees home. our nations are also cooperating on a number of other security issues.
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united states supports japan's -- we make the best equipment in the world. in 2018, japan was one of the world's top purchasers of defense equipment. they have just announced the intend to purchase 105 brand- new f 35 stealth aircraft. the fact is, you cannot see them. this purchase will give japan the largest f 35 fleet of any u.s. ally. america and japan's closed, close security ties are grounded in shared values. tomorrow, i will visit american troops stationed alongside the japanese self-defense forces right here in japan.
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on behalf of all americans, i want to think the japanese people for graciously hosting our servicemembers and military families. the united states and japan are also working to improve our economic relationship based on the principles of fairness and reciprocity. we are currently negotiating a bilateral trade agreement that would benefit both of our economies. our goal is to reduce the trade deficit with japan. we will remove trade barriers and barriers of all kinds so that u.s. exports will really have a fair and profound footing. just over one week ago, we gained full access to japanese markets for the first time since 2003. we hope to have even more to announce on the trade very, very soon. finally, i am pleased to confirm that prime minister shinzo abe and i have agreed to
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dramatically expand cooperation in human space exploration. japan will join the mission to send u.s. astronauts to space. we will be going to the moon and mars varies in. it is very exciting. from a military standpoint, there is nothing more important right now than space. this is an exciting starting point for greater collaboration on many things. mr. prime minister, our visit this week as a moving reminder of the deep friendship between our people. it is a profound honor to be in japan at this important moment in your nation's history. for this new imperial era, the nation has chosen the name -- meaning beautiful harmony. i look forward to continuing our can -- our tremendous
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partnership as we work to bring this noble vision to life. thank you. >> now accepting questions. japanese media first followed by the press company the president. please raise your hand and be recognized by me. ms. sanders from the u.s. first, questions from the japanese media, please. >> i have a question for the prime minister on abduction. to think that they problem would be resolved in one time meeting with chairman kim jong
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un or do you have to seek solutions? by what timeframe would you like to realize the summit? at the end of this year? not since, in that case, could there be -- involving the u.s. as well? >> regarding the relationship with north korea, first of all i have to note the fact that president trump cracked open the door and chaired the bright future beyond denuclearization it is a new approach. i would like to pay tribute to his new approach. the most important thing is the solution of abduction. i have to directly see chairman kim face-to-face without attaching any conditions.
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i meet him and then frankly, i must have discussion in complete candor. at they -- today, to my resolution is set president trump said he will give all support and will spare no efforts in rendering assistance. it was a very strong support. president trump and family members of abducted victims had a meeting. president trump would look into the eyes of the family members directly. he was listening to the remarks very seriously. we have to resolve this abduction issue. this is they thought that i have which was shared by president trump. once again, looking toward the resolution of the abduction issue i would like to pay tribute and gratitude to the lavish understanding and support
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. now, including the points that you asked on the topic of a summit talk between japan and north korea, there is no specific goal in sight. based upon the declaration, we want to resolve comprehensive issues like abduction, nuclear missiles, we must come to terms with our unfortunate past. objection issue is the most important issue for the shinzo abe administration . family members of up to these are advancing in age. also come -- irrespective of my
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term in office, i have to do everything i can come all out efforts from myself for the resolution of this issue. as the prime minister i have responsibility. going forward i will discharge this rep -- responsibility. as your prime minister i will do my best. all my efforts are rendered. >> the united states first question will go to -- of the wall street journal. >> mr. president, prime minister. mr. president i hope you will indulge me with two questions since we are far from him. if kim jong un is not violating
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his promise to by firing small weapons as you said in your tweet yesterday, what would you consider a violation exactly? >> first of all, i think that kim jong un or chairman kim as some people say, is looking to create a nation that has great strength economically. i talked to him a lot about it. he's very much into the fact that he believes, like i do, that north korea has tremendous economic potential like perhaps few other developing nations in the world. i think he is looking to develop that way. he knows that with nuclear, that is never going to happen. only bad can happen. he understands that. is a very smart man and he gets it well. i think he is going to try at some point, i am no, i am in no rush. we have our hostages back. as you know, we are getting the remains, continuing to get the remains. a lot of good things are
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happening. very importantly, there has been no nuclear testing for two years. during the past administration, there were many numbers that were very high like 10, 12, 18, having to do with missile launches and nuclear testing. for the last two years, it had zero and zero. i am very happy with the way it is going. intelligent people agree with me. >> you're not bothered by the small muscles? >> i am personally not. one more question mr. president. last week you declared you would not work with democrats in congress until they stop investigating you. how are you going to explain this to your voters? >> the molar -- the mauckport came out with no obstruction. the democrats cannot understand what happened, they really thought they had some people on their side. as you know, the people doing the investigation were 18
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extremely angry democrats, many of them worked for hillary clinton and supported hillary clinton. bob mueller, i guess you could say he was not a friend of mine. but he did something that was really the right thing to do. they were very disappointed and cannot get over the fact that i never spoke to russia never dealt with russia, i will say this that without question, we have done a job like few present players have done. the only thing that you can say about me that some people may not like is that i have created one of the greatest economies anywhere in the world. when i first met with yesterday, with prime minister abe the first thing he did was congratulate me on the incredible economy that we have in the united states. so, i think that we will work with them, we have a deal with canada and mexico that everybody wants. it is all done. i think they probably want to be doing that as you know.
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the ambassador is here right now. that is a deal that has gotten universal praise. unions leavitt, farmers leavitt, manufacturers leavitt. you won't have companies leaving and going to mexico and going to canada like they were for many many years. i would imagine that nancy pelosi would approve it. it will be very hard not to. we will see. certainly as things get approved, i would love to sign them. it is good for our country. i am only interested in what is good for our country. >> prime minister i think you, i hope you will indulge me with two questions. did you receive any reassurances from president trump that he will not impose tariffs on cars or auto-parts six months from now? >> i want to hear this answer, too? >> last year between resident trump and i, regarding and
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including auto-parts based upon the joint statements, the ministers are discussing and talking about this matter. so, we agreed to accelerate the talk as such. that was the agreement i reached with president trump. >> i think probably that's enough. i think your compatriots will not be happy with another question. >> once again a question from japanese media please. >> i have a question to the prime minister about the u.s.- japan trade agreement before the election their voices expressed from trade organizations. now, the maximum that you can
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have in paris is the same. regarding the calendar, in the beginning of the talk, in -- mother could be a major statement. -- there could be a major statement. in today's talk, was the timeframe or the scheduling of those matters between the u.s. and japan trade debate is happening. what was the outlook on that relationship as far as japan? is there any mitigating role that japan can take? >> two questions, i guess. last year in september, president trump and i agreed on a joint statement. based upon that, the ministers are vigorously conducting discussions and talks. between
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them, i think quite an in depth discussion was held. we agreed that the leaders accelerate the talks with the ministers. we have a joint statement and that must be the ground premise upon which we create win-win results to both those nations. that is my thinking. next point of question. >> u.s.-china trade negotiations. i think that was the question. they occupy number one and number two economic position in the world. between the two countries, the stable economic relationship is
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built. that would benefit not only japan but asian countries and the whole world. it is very important. with the view as such, i hope that continuously the u.s. and china will go through dialogue in order to seek a constructive solution of the problem. today with the president, we discussed economic issues. the economy was something we also addressed. there are a variety of challenges in the global economy that we discussed in today's talk. >> very importantly, i have nothing to do with tpp, i am not bound by anything that anybody else signed with respect to the united states.
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tpp would have destroyed our automobile industry. we are not involved in tpp. what other countries agreed to is not binding at all on the unit is. as far as china is concerned, they would not make a deal. i think they probably wished they made the deal that they had on the table before they tried to renegotiate. they would like to manic a deal and we are -- they would like to make a deal and we are not ready. i think sometime in the future, china and the united states will absolutely have a great trade deal. we look forward to that. >> the question goes to -- of reuters. >> thank you, sir. i will follow vivian's lead and ask two questions. first to the follow-up on
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trade. cannulate specifically -- can you lay out specifically what japan needs to do specifically? do you expect talks with china to get back on track this year at all? >> first of all, getting to the g 20, i think we are very much discussing different things with japan. we have an unbelievably large trade imbalance which has been there for many years japan having the big advantage. they are brilliant business people and brilliant negotiators. they put us in a very tough spot. i think we will have a deal with japan, likewise i think we will have a deal with china at some point in the future. many companies are leaving china because of the tariffs. china is subsidizing a lot of industry because foolishly some people said that the american taxpayer is paying the tariffs, no, it is not that way. they are paying a small percentage but our country is
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taking in billions and billions of dollars. our farmers, out of all that money, the tens of billions of dollars, we are giving a relatively small percentage of that to our farmers who have been a focal point of what has gone on with trey. as you know, they have earmarked and, after the farmer thinking that it hurt the farmer. i'm going to negotiate a bad deal for the rest of the country. the american farmer, these are great patriots. they don't want subsidies. we have had meetings. i have had meetings with 35-40 farmers. numerous times. they don't want subsidy. i have told that to you before. they want a level playing field. we are better than anybody in the world. they told me. i said, i am going to get you subsidy while china takes advantage of us and china takes advantage of you. they said we don't want subsidy. all we want is a level playing
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field. the american farmer, these are great patriots. they are unbelievable people. they are with me 100%. i believe that we will have a very good deal with china sometime into the future. i don't believe that china can continue to pay these hundreds of millions of dollars in tariffs. i don't believe they can do that. businesses are leaving china by the hundreds, by the thousands, going into areas that are nontariff to including the united states. they are going to different parts of asia. vietnam, frankly, japan, they are going to a lot of places but they are also coming to the united states because people do not want to pay the tariffs. if you look, there is no tariff to pay. all you have to do is move your country, move your company to the united states. with all that being said, there is a very good chance that you united states and china will have a very good trade deal.
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>> mr. president, a follow-up on north korea. you tweeted yesterday. do you believe that they violated the un resolutions with the short range missile launch? does it give you pause at all to be appearing to side with a brutal dictator instead of with the fellow american, the former vice president, joe biden? >> timko made a statement that joe biden is a low iq individual. he probably is based on his record. i think i agree with him on that. at the same time, my people think it could have been a violation, as you know. i view it differently. i view it as a man who perhaps wants to get attention. perhaps not. it does not matter. all i know is that there have been no nuclear test. there have been no ballistic missiles going out. there have been no long-range missiles going out. and, i think that someday we will have a deal. i am not in a rush.
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tremendous sanctions are being put on the country of north korea. again, kim jong un understands the unbelievable economic potential the country has. it is located between russia and china on one-sided -- on one side and south korea on the other. it is all waterfront property. it is a great location. i think he sees that. i have to tell you one of the country, i really believe that he ran -- iran would like to make a deal. i think that is a possibility to happen, also. >> in terms of the schism that you are supporting a dictator instead of an american vice president? >> when i look at what has been done by our vice president and the president, when i look at the horrible deal they made, look what happened since i terminated the deal. they were a terror and fighting in many locations all over the
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middle east. they were behind every single major attack whether it was syria, yemen, whether it was individual smaller areas, whether it was taking oil away from people, they were involved with everything. now, they are pulling back because they have serious economic problems. we have massive sanctions and other things. we just said the other day steel, copper, elements of what they use -- used gisele. i'm not looking to hurt iran at all. i just want them to say no nuclear weapons. i think they will make a deal. again, i think iran has tremendous economic potential. i look forward to letting them get back to the stage where they can show that. i know so many people ñrom iran. these are great people. it has a chance to be a great country with the same
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leadership. we are not looking for regime change. i want to make that clear. we are looking for no nuclear weapons. if you look at the deal that biden and president obama signed, they would have free access to nuclear weapons where they would not even be in violation in just a very short period of time. what kind of a deal is that? we cannot have that. plus there were many other things they did that were very bad. i don't take sides as to who i am in favor and who i am not. but i can tell you that joe biden was a disaster. they were basically a disaster when it came to so many things whether it was the economy, military, defense, no matter what it was, they had a lot of problems. i am not a fan. >> one question from the prime minister. do you share president trump's optimism about north korea and his position about the recent missile launches? also, could you tell us and
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perhaps tell us what you told the president what you expect or would like to achieve if you travel to iran and hold talks with iran. speak -- >> president trump conducted a summit meeting with north korea together with chairman kim. he agreed on the do need -- denuclearization of the korean peninsula. he cracked open the show so that the future, bright future can be shared and urge north korea to act accordingly. this is an approach i welcome. this was not achieved.
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president trump just said that he will make a challenge with new approach. so, we are neighbors to north korea, we are most threatened among the countries. so, as the prime minister of such a country, such active a prime minister and president trump and policy, i have trust in them and i like to support it. the abduction issue is of paramount importance. in hanoi at the summit talk, president trump, on behalf of my thinking, he conveyed and communicated my thinking to kim jong un. i in the country of japan are thankful. a moment ago president trump met with the family members of the abductees.
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they were very appreciative of president trump. his approach is something that everybody wants to have hope. that would be the view of the families of the abductees. the launching of missiles this time on 9 may, north korea launched short range missiles. so my reaction is, as i said, earlier on, it is of great regret, but certain new approach was taken. that is something that i would like to pay tribute to. in any event, denuclearization of korean peninsula is the goal. so u.s.-japan, other countries
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will act in cooperation so that the process would be supported. what about iran? regarding he ran, disregarding iran, we have expressed our position at appropriate times. peace and stability of middle east is very important for japan and the united states and the international community as a whole. it is really important. in this context, in order to make attribution for the peace and stability of the region, we would like to discharge whatever we can do. whatever it is possible for japan to do, we absolutely would like to do these going forward between japan and the united states. there should be close collaboration so that the
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tension surrounding iran could be mitigated and alleviated work it should not culminate in conflict. thank you, very much. with this, we will conclude the press conference, the joint press conference. thank you very much. please remain seated until the leaders exit the room. >> we have >> we have been watching president trump and japan's prime minister shinzo abe hold a joint news conference. this is just one of the events, president trump is on a four day visit there to japan. it was interesting to listen to both leaders continue to reiterate the friendship and how important that is between japan and the united states. that has also been carried out through the past two days of
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resident trump's visit. he was playing golf with the prime minister and he also went to see a sumo wrestling match which was a very big deal for president trump along with meeting for the first time, the emperor who just became emperor on may 1. they are calling this the -- era. both leaders spoke about this in the joint conference. they are talking about how important it is to be together and have a very close relationship. we will go to the chief white house correspondent who has been traveling with the president. they hit many topics. what stood out to you the most? >> the last question, we knew north korea and trade would be prime. whether not he believes the
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missiles test was a violation of the security council resolution. that is something he does believe. he reiterated that to reporters. president trump said essentially, it does not matter. he said it was essentially nothing more than a small weapons test. he really brushed this aside. it is particularly critical to foreign policy given that if the president is giving north korea a pass on this, what is next? . as president trump walked out of the room, he shook hands with a colleague who asked if he still had confidence. he said yes, he does. there was also a moment when the resident was pressed about his tweet regarding joe biden where he seemed to show more respect to kim jong un and side
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with him over the vice president. president trump said that essentially, biden is a disaster. he went on to list a series of policy decisions he did not agree with barack obama or joe biden on. it was notable that here on foreign soil he went after the former vice president of the united states. forgive us if you see people walking in front of our camera. it is a little logistically tricky here. this was newsworthy from president trump standing next to shinzo abe. by the way, president trump and prime minister abe , on the same page relating to north korea. there were serious questions about whether or not chairman kim wants to denuclearize. president trump reiterated that he wants to meet with kim jong un face-to-face.
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-- prime minister abe wants to meet with kim jong un. president trump said he is not expecting to get a trade deal until after the parliamentary elections. that comes up in july. pressed on whether or not a commitment was made, prime minister abe said we promised to accelerate discussions. president trump comes back for the g 20 summit at the end of june. that will be another opportunity for him to talk with leaders in the region. for example, the chinese president, as well. the president will be heading over to a banquet. this was an official statement we saw earlier today. he met with the new emperor who is ascending to the chrysanthemum throne. they had to an airbase not too far from here where they will
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make remarks to the members of the u.s. military and the japanese defense forces. apologies about the many heads in front of the camera but you know how life tv works >> another correspondent is standing by. kristin, what was your take away from this press conference? >> i would just underscore, the top point that you heard from hallie. how remarkable it was that you have the prime minister saying that he and president trump are on the same page when it comes to north korea and yet laying out two very different visions. president trump says it does not matter if you want to say north korea violated the resolutions. he is not bothered by the fact that north korea did lunch those recent missile test. yet, the prime minister had a very different message. he said that he does see the missile test is a violation of
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the un security council resolutions. he call that regrettable. so, the question becomes, how do these leaders actually get a deal? how do they work together to pressure north korea to essentially stop its nuclear ambitions. you get the sense that there is a little bit of a good cap, good cop, bad cop thing going on. he wants to praise the new approach that president trump is taking. the fact that he has reached out and actually met face-to- face with kim jong un. those talks by all accounts have been stalled, but again, you really got the sense that these two leaders are working on two very different tracks to try to achieve the same goal. also remarkable to hear president trump double down on his criticism of the former vice president, not backing away when asked with he is siding with a murderous dictator over a former vice president. president trump said biden and
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former president obama have been a disaster for the country. that will it a lot of criticism back at home. we already had republicans and democrats criticizing the president for that week. here you have him doubling down on that. one more point i will make, so much of this visit is about personal diplomacy. that is why he had the two leaders playing around of golf. that is why they attended the sumo wrestling match. president trump is the first world leader to have met the new emperor here. prime minister abe is betting on the fact that the personal diplomacy will help deliver a bilateral trade dear. -- trade deal. again, it is that personal diplomacy that both leaders are relying on. at the question is, will it work? >> thank you so much.
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we have been watching a bilateral meeting of prime minister shinzo abe and president trump. we will have more updates throughout the evening and we will be live at 5 am. please rejoin us. now, we will go back to our program, dateline. for smith
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>> it's "law & order" and everything right there. you sit there and everyone comes in and just you hold your breath. the world kind of stops. you don't know what the outcome is because they have all the power. whatever they say is either the truth or what is going to be the truth. >> reporter: a lot of butterflies in your tummy. >> oh, god, yeah. >> reporter: he looked at their faces for some sign. waited nervously for justice for his mother. what was it like to hear the words? >> emancipating. it was just unbelievable. >> reporter: the verdict -- guilty of first-degree murder.
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>> i had a moment of just sitting there, and i just started crying. i hugged my family. >> reporter: you know, it's interesting you say, hugged my family, because somebody who doesn't know the whole story ho might say, well, you just lost your family.to but they don't know the whole story. >> yeah. no. no, they were -- having my mother's side of the family, her two brothers and their family with me, it was amazing. it was what families should be. they were all there for me. >> reporter: the judge allowed charlie to address his father in court.to >> i had this whole, like, speech prepared of, this is like vindication of everything. but, i was so angry, was just shaking and not really able to get my words out. but i managed to say, like, i'm no longer your son. i can't believe you would do this. and just you're going to where you belong.re
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>> reporter: that would be a pretty scary moment, i mean, a nervous making moment. >> oh, it was terrifying. to know that it was actually going to happen, that this was the culmination of everything. it was a lot of emotion. >> reporter: also your way of saying good-bye to him. >> yeah. yeah. >> reporter: through all of this, fred schockner maintainedr his innocence. in fact, even before his trial began fred did carry out a threat he uttered right after the murder. he launched a lawsuit against the long beach police department for not protecting his wife, lynn. >> he went to the city and filed a claim, which is a precursor to a lawsuit against the city of long beach blaming the long beach police department for not preventing the murder of his wife because they had not, you
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know, followed through, followed proper procedure. >> reporter: wait a minute. it's their fault because they didn't prevent me from killing my wife?he >> that's right, exactly, yeah. >> reporter: the claim was rejected. but now, on the day of his sentencing, he tried the same argument again. chutzpah. >> that was the -- yes, that wat the judge's response too. he called it sophistry. and he called him a disgusting human being. and he did not mince words. >> reporter: fred was sentenced to life without parole.se they all were. in a few sentences, what you think the motive in this murder was? >> money. >> reporter: wow, in one word, apparently. >> for whatever reason, $3 million or $4 million was not enough for manfred schockner. he wanted $6 million or $8 million. >> reporter: even from prison fred schockner fought to keep it all for himself.to fought his own son, his own blood, tried to prevent charlie from getting a share of the
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schockner estate. and though charlie was eventually granted some of the money, fred kept millions for himself. though how he'd manage to spend it in prison was unclear. we wrote letters to all three of them, nick harvey, frank jaramillo and fred schockner, asking to hear from them what happened. fred wrote back and said that he was convicted on highly skeptical circumstantial evidence and that there should have been more than enough to prove my innocence. nick, now in his 30s, called us. he has matured in prison, he said. was mad at the world back then. but has found god now. but listen to this, though he takes full responsibility for what he did, he's also been nursing a strange and very lonely conspiracy theory. >> i've always believed the police were involved. >> reporter: you mean they intentionally sent her back there to be killed? >> yes.
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>> reporter: you don't still believe that, though? >> well, i'm not a big believer in coincidence, especially in situations like this. >> reporter: lots of time to think in prison about things like that. but also about charlie. >> oh, young charlie. he -- what i did to charlie is -- haunts me every day. >> reporter: yeah. >> i took so much from him. >> reporter: but whether nick knew it or not, charlie was in the very capable hands of his uncle mark, who'd received a commission from his worried sister, lynn, before she was murdered. >> if anything happens to me, take care of my son. >> reporter: and he did. how do you feel about that boy? >> love him. yeah. yeah, this one's going to be tough. i always look back at that
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moment as the greatest gift i ever received from the man who i still hate more than any person i've ever known. and my wife and i didn't have children of our own. now i've got the best son in the world. >> oh, it's been great. mark and susan are just, they're great. i love them so much. >> reporter: and so in a sad, strange way, out of unimaginable evil and loss came love. a real family. an unexpected blessing. what's he done for you personally, having him in your life? >> it's like getting another life. g like somebody opened a door and said, here's a second chance.
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>> reporter: got a reason to get up in the morning these days. >> damn straight. a reason to live. >> reporter: mark and susan are now his mom and dad. he has taken their last name. and charlie has more than survived. he is thriving. >> i'm going somewhere, and i'm going fast. >> reporter: he got his master's and landed his dream job in theme park design. and he has learned, in spite of everything, that rarest of lessons, to accept and move on. >> i mean, i know it happened, and i know it's influencing me, but it's not defining me. >> reporter: but there is one thing that defines him, his mother's character, and that follows him everywhere. >> my mother was just ethereal. she holds a very special place. she's just everything that you think of as good, everything that you think of as kind, everything that is just great
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about people. that's what she embodied, and i'm going to carry that with me he told me he loved me. >> reporter: it's the website where lovers go to meet. and cheat. >> this was someone looking to have an affair. >> reporter: but this affair was about so much more than deceit. >> you couldn't write this as a

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