tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 28, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT
newsletter at signup.axios.com. >> i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside geoff bennett. "morning joe," everybody, starts right now. north korea best not make any more threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> and then we fell in love. okay? no, really. he wrote me beautiful letters. and they're great letters. we fell in love. >> you're not bothered at all by the small missiles? >> no, i am not. i am personally not. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 28th. along with joe, willie and me we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc john heilemann, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments he will ease jordan, president to then council on foreign relations
richard haass and political reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst robert costa. joe, quite a way to start the week. >> we fell in love. donald trump to kim jong-un. >> wow. >> the most murderous -- one of the most murderous dictators. that is really unbelievable just looking at that, but how was my weekend? well, i had a good -- i had a really good weekend and we were -- we were -- you and i, of course, both in boston yesterday, but for some reason you didn't want to stay and watch the red sox. >> no, i had to go to work. >> yeah. but, you know, but, willie, i was actually in fenway when the announcement came over, there was an afternoon game, they had a wonderful memorial day ceremonies, i'm talking to willie right now so show willie. thank you. go to willie. >> there he is. >> and so i was in the stands when they called out that said
that bill buckner had passed away, there was a huge gasp in the crowd. sports fans treated buckner badly. i can tell you all the red sox fans i knew growing up loved buckner, always respected the man and what incredible grace he showed. lemire and i were talking about 1986, of course, the play that had haunted buckner throughout his life, but we were talking about when he came back when the red sox got their world series ring, first day of 2008, he came out, thunderous applause for two minutes straight. he walks out and throws the first pitch, tears in his eyes. the whole stadium -- i tell you i looked left and right and everybody -- everybody was tearing up. i think barnicle may have even been tearing up. welcome back this man who, again, every sox fan i know do
not blame him for what happened in 1986. there are a couple pitchers whose names shouldn't be mentioned, but he was -- he was just a class, class act. of all the gifts he gave this great city of boston the greatest was the grace he showed on this day and at the end. >> that video we're showing right now, april 8th, 2008 was going around the internet yesterday the news of buckner's death. you don't have to be a red sox fan. you understand what the previous 22 years of his life had been like since the 1986 world series. it's a shame that it has to be part of his obituary, but it is a part of his story. the photographs that accompany his obituary show him bending over along the first baseline as the ball goes through his legs. it's important to say what a great player he was. >> great player. >> he was a league batting champion, he was an all star, had 2,700 hits in his career pushing up against that 3,000
mark. and as you say, he just handled that so well from 1986. >> oh, my god. >> to 2008 where he finally came back to fenway. there was another moment you remember on "curb your enthusiasm" where larry david encouraged buckner to come back. bill buckner catches, i think, a baby or small child falling from a building during a fire and he makes the catch and the crowd goes wild. a great ballplayer, a red red sock and i'm glad he's being treated with all the love he deserves in his passing. >> they would have never made the world series without the man. by the way, the sox pitching staff had given up a 5-3 lead in the tenth inning anyway. they all worked very hard to put him in a position to do that. anyway, that's -- that was our weekend, mika. of course, it had to do with baseball. how was your weekend? >> mine was great. i went to hanover, new
hampshire, like the happiest place on earth and saw my daughter. wonderful, wonderful weekend. i hope everyone had a great weekend. let's talk about president trump's weekend because he is on his way back to washington this morning after spending the memorial day weekend in japan. there he met with u.s. troops and also downplayed the recent missile test by north korea. during the course of his visit trump suggested that he was not personally bothered by the short-range missile test carried out by pyongyang earlier this month. in a tweet on saturday, the president wrote, north korea fired off some small weapons which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. i have confidence that chairman kim will keep his promise and also smiled when he called swamp man joe biden, spell it wrong, a low iq individual and worse. perhaps that's sending me a signal. the president initially spelled
biden's name wrong but corrected it in a follow-up tweet. the president made that claim despite the fact that those kind of missiles pose a potential security threat to u.s. allies in the region, including japan. during a press conference yesterday following hours of talk between the two leaders japan's prime minister shinzo abe standing next to trump disagreed with the president's assessment of the missile tests, saying it violated u.n. security council resolutions. when asked about the test, the president who it must have been really hot in there, offered this assessment. >> my people think it could have been a violation, as you know. i view it differently. i view it as a man, perhaps he wants to get attention, and perhaps not. who knows? it doesn't matter. all i know is that there have been no nuclear tests, there have been no ballistic missiles going out, there have been no long range missiles going out and i think that some day we
will have a deal. i'm not in a rush. tremendous sanctions being put on the country of north korea and, again, kim jong-un understands the unbelievable economic potential that country has. >> all right. joe, what do you think? >> well, i don't really understand -- i don't understand, first of all, why you would say that the missiles cause you no concern when you're actually in a country, one of our closest allies, that these missiles pose a direct threat to. that's, of course, disturbing. i'm going to ask richard haass about that. secondly, of course, we talk about donald trump shattering the norms of the presidency, shattering the norms of democratic values, of american values as a leader. what is more shattering of those norms than when you have the president of the united states actually saying that he was smiling at the fact that the communist dictator of a country
that's long been an enemy of the united states of america has sending him a secret signal by attacking a domestic political opponent. that is, of course, that shatters democratic norms, it's also very dangerous and it's what he did four years ago when he tried to talk directly to russia and told them to try to get hillary clinton's emails. richard haass, everybody knows this about donald trump by now, but we have to restate it. let's talk about the bigger picture here. is there a bigger picture? donald trump, is he working towards a deal that we don't know about? is that why he's ignoring the north koreans rubbing his nose in mud seemingly every month? >> well, if he's working towards a deal, as you say, it's a deal we don't know about. he basically said he wants denuclearization, that is not going to happen. i think the odds of it happening are about zero. he probably could have a deal,
joe, if he's willing to compromise, that we would give north korea some sanctions relief in exchange for some degree of limits, presumably verified. but in the meantime, the president keeps saying he is not in a rush and he ought to be a little bit in a rush. the kind of test north korea did the other way is a way they could learn certain things that could be introduced into longer range missiles. >> let me ask you this, richard, on china there is an example of the president bumbling his way through on china, but if you look at 30,000 feet most americans are glad the president is getting tough on china. finally a president is getting tough on china. even though he has no game plan, he is a day trader. so it's going to end badly, but his instinct there is right. what about on north korea where we were talking about the possibility of a war a year ago, is his instinct not right on north korea to try, first of all, to ignore john bolton and
other people who would love to go to war on the korean peninsula, but are his instincts correct, to play this out, to continue to give them a little more slack in hopes of getting a deal? >> short answer is no. his instinct is right not to want to have a war, but his instinct is not right to let this drift. we ought to press for a deal because north korea is using time to increase the amount of fissile material it has to test like they did the other day. when the president basically says, joe, that he is not particularly concerned about the shorter-range systems, obviously japan is because they would reach japan, and it sends a powerful message if north korea were willing to cut a deal where, for example, it limited some of its long range systems that made us happy he would be willing to throw -- be willing to throw south korea on japan under the bus. it reinforces the sense that allies are not a concern for him. so, again, i think there is potentially a deal to be had out
there, one that would be consistent with our allied and own interests, but i don't see the president so far willing to take it. >> as president trump praised kim jong-un he continued his criticism of potential 2020 opponent joe biden during a news conference yesterday, where the president has asked about his attacks on the former vice president. >> does it give you pause at all to be appearing to side with a brutal dictator instead of with a fellow american, the former vice president, joe biden? >> well, kim jong-un made a statement that joe biden is a low iq individual, he probably is based on his record. i think i agree with him on that. >> but in terms of criticism that you're sort of supporting a dictator instead of an american vice president? >> well, when i look at what's been done by our vice president and the president, when i look at the horrible iran deal that they made, look what happened sense i terminated the iran deal. look what has happened to iran. iran when i first came into office was a terror, they were
fighting in many locations all over the middle east, they were behind every single major attack, whether it was syria, whether it was yemen, whether it was individual smaller areas, whether it was taking away oil from people, they were involved in everything. now they are pulling back because they've got serious economic problems. >> i can tell you that joe biden was a disaster, his administration with president obama, they were basically a disaster when it came to so many things, whether it was economy, whether it was military, defense. no matter what it was they had a lot of problems. so i'm not a fan. >> willie, it bears repeating and reminding our viewers that the dixie chicks' career was shattered on country music stations across america. there were dixie chick album burnings, dixie chick bans
because they spoke ill of an american president on foreign soil. this is how far we've come. we now have a president who is supported by a lot of those people who probably said i'm not ever going to listen to dixie chicks again, who attacked an american vice president and an american president on foreign soil. that is something you do not do. i remember lashing into harry reid for five years for attacking george w. bush when he was in russia. it's something you don't do. >> not not just attacking a former vice president, but doing it as a contrast to the dictator of north korea. in other words, he's choosing the north korean dictator over the former vice president of the united states and, elise, let's remind people for president trump it's not enough that kim
jong-un starves and murders his people or threatens our allies with nuclear weapons. less than two years ago he murdered an american college student. he murdered a young american man, this person that the president of the united states is taking a side over the vice president of the united states. this is one of those things, again, where we get numb to the president sometimes. we don't have to be surprised, but we ought to be outraged by what we saw over the weekend. >> i'm just concerned that every norm in how we behave at home and abroad has just been thrown out the window. we expect that, oh, the american president can behave like this and it will just be excused because that's who he is and we're not supposed to be any better than that. he just gets out on the international stage and is blatantly lying about so many things, number one, the nuclear deal with iran which the obama administration did not say you can have nukes like donald trump said in that press treatment --
in that press avail, but i just can't imagine being the japanese and hosting donald trump and then just having him essentially stab you in the eye. >> bob costa, i'm getting past elise. that's very violent mississippi imagery there, stab you in the eye. >> she was from a different part of mississippi than me. that's right, bob, you can smile. so, bob, the president obviously is focused on 2020. everything has to do with 2020 race now, he's keyed in on joe biden. he even went after him, attacked him on the crime bill. i read that stuart stephens last night was suggesting that he was going to start attacking joe biden on the crime bill because he knows one of the reasons why he won was african-american turnout was depressed for the first time in 20 years because
trump and the russians were sending negative messages about hillary to black voters. is that something we're going to see over the next year or so, a constant hammering away on issues like the crime bill? >> stepping back and talking to republican consultants across the country and democratic consultants they say there is a pattern here with these attacks on vice president biden and what the president is doing over in japan. where is biden's key political appeal? in the industrial midwest. where is president trump at this moment struggling to cut a deal? he's struggling to cut a deal with the japanese. he has delayed the auto tariffs with the japanese for six months, did the same with the european union. still no u.s./japanese trade deal. a trade deal with china he is whispering some positive words so the markets are up today, still no deal necessarily on the horizon. this is a white house based on my conversations with republican leaders is worried about trade moving towards the democrats in
2020 and those voters who flipped to trump in 2016 may be drifting towards biden unless they feel it the president has that populous edge on trade. so by attacking vice president biden he's really trying to assure his base, even though there is no trade deal, he's still tough on trade. >> and what a great point. john heilemann, you know, we've been talking on the show, certainly i have, about what a smooth takeoff joe biden has had. >> yeah. >> he hasn't had a lot of slip-ups, but he has had one and it may be one of those slip-ups that he only sees the last six weeks of the campaign in 30 second spots and that's where he said we had nothing to worry about with china. in chip gabriel's article on youngstown, ohio, pointed this out beautifully. when you have joe biden saying, hey, we have nothing to worry about with china and you have
donald trump going to war every day with china, obviously white working class voters across the midwest and a lot of other americans will say, well, yeah, i'm on trump's side there. >> right. i think there is no question, joe, that you're going to see that's the kind of mistake that -- at least that's the one we've seen so far of joe biden of that genre. we will probably seen more if you go by history those are the kinds of -- he then went on to explain what he meant by that, america is the most powerful economy in the world, ultimately china can't compete with us in terms of innovation, et cetera, et cetera. by reframing it there's an explanation, just like, you know, when barack obama said some things in 2012 about the economy, you can't build that, various things are taken out of context. i'm sure joe biden will be hit with that. i think in the long run, though, the question for a lot of those voters is going to be what has or has not donald trump done for them. so there is a question where the facts on the ground are going to matter more than one or two
sound bites taken in and out of context. but i want to go back to the thing you said a second ago which i think is super important. you've made the point over and over again on the show, smartly, that, you know, donald trump is not a political magician and that he won in 2016 by pulling an inside straight. one important component of pulling that inside straight was depressed democratic turnout. there is only one path for donald trump to win, the path involves winning, as bob costa just said, those states in the industrial midwest but it also involves depressing democratic turnout as much as possible in places -- in a lot of those same states and in other states. so this incredible attack on biden, incredible in the sense that it's fantasticel on one level coming from donald trump, the guy who is still, i believe, on record of being in favor of executing the now exonerated central park five, that that guy could be attacking joe biden from the left on crime, could be
attacking him, imposing himself as more of a champion of criminal justice reform and of the african-american community is outrageous on one level, but it's exactly the kind of thing that both republicans and russians did in 2016 to try to depress democratic turnout among african-american voters. we will hear a lot of that, i think, interest donald trump from now all the way through november of next year. >> given trump's history in the '80s and '90s in new york -- joe biden on the crime bill. we will come back to what happened with japan over the weekend. if you're shinzo abe standing at that podium listening to the president of the united states praise kim jong-un who would like to wipe japan off the map if he got the chance effectively with a nuclear weapon, what are you thinking? that goes to a larger question of what are the allies thinking about this president of the united states around the world? >> shinzo abe has been one of the very few democratic allies of the united states that's kept on good terms with donald trump. so he's standing up there and he wants to look like he's defending japanese security interests against north korea,
he wants his own one-on-one with kim jong-un. he's the only major person in the group who hasn't about a one on one, trump has had two, putin had one, the south korean president has had several, china has had several. he doesn't want to lose that chance to meet with him and he also doesn't want to get on trump's wrong side on trade. so what you had was -- i won't use the word kabuki, but you get it. a leader in a tough place, trying to be a gracious host. it was an impossible made for him. he has made the strategic decision he is not going to have a public spat with trump because he's got larger fish to fry. he just basically held back. >> when asked about the latest tweet by the president invoking joe biden and north korea, biden's presidential campaign pointed back to a statement issued last week reading in part, as vice president biden said in philadelphia, donald trump embraces dictators and tyrants like putin and kim jong-un, while alienating our
closest allies. that is antithetical to who we are and it has to change. robert costa, you know, i guess looking ahead to how biden continues to handle this politically, but also trump's team. is there any damage control in terms of sort of foreign policy messaging that needs to be done in light of this latest horrific trip where the president makes a fool of america on the world stage? >> the president on one level is battling the internationalism of vice president biden, that traditional foreign policy perspective that has been articulated by leaders in both parties for a decade since the end of world war ii, but he is also on another level battling that same perspective inside of his own white house. this trip has underscored how national security adviser john bolton with his hawkish view on north korea and so many other fronts does not always have the standing politically, diplomatically inside of this administration to reign this
president in or to put him on a different path. this is a president who continues to go back to those isolationist at times nationalistic instincts, combative instincts, that is driving american foreign policy even though there are some hawks like bolton around him. still ahead on "morning joe," long before president trump fell in love with kim jong-un, senator john mccain had some choice words about the incoming commander in chief. that is according to senator amy klobuchar who says the arizona republican kept reciting the names of dictators during the president's inauguration. that's fascinating. we will talk about that ahead. but first, here is bill karins with a check on some severe weather in the country. bill, what's going on? >> mika, we are in the middle of a historic outbreak of tornadoes and flash flooding and river flooding, multi-billion dollar disaster. there are congressmen and women that were touring all of the
damaged regions through the weekend and did it again last night. north of dayton, ohio, a strong tornado hit 10:00 to 11:00 p.m., there is significant damage. this looks like an ef-3 or ef-4 tornado on the higher nd of the scale. numerous homes have been destroyed. you can see some of the pictures here. sunrise is right about now so we will start to get new pictures in to see how bad it is. with he know there has been seven injuries in the region. how about the arkansas river, the flooding is just epic, the dam that controls the arkansas river is almost full. more rain is expected and the water levels already at record heights. they may have to release more water. so the river may have to go even higher so new homes could be flooded out. let me get into the maps. here is the tornado that came through the dayton area north of the city. here is the image and picture of it taken by josh mart neds with a lightning strike. this morning omaha has flash flood warnings, had a strong storm go through. throughout the day today we have about 48 million people that are
at risk of dealing with severe weather including much of the state of pennsylvania from pittsburgh to philadelphia to baltimore and then all through the midwest again where the horrific flooding is going, we have a chance of more severe and bad weather over the next two days. the problems multiply until we get dry weather in this region and it's not going to happen anytime soon. over 500 tornadoes in the month of may already. new york city to get storms later today but they shouldn't be of the severe variety. a lot of those will stay just to the south of new york around philadelphia and baltimore later on this evening. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh...
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because the future only happens with people [ slurps ] gwho's a good boy? it's me. me, me, me. hey guys! you're gonna want to get in on this. i know how to those guys in here. let's pause the internet on their devices. wohhh? huhhhh? [ grumbling ] all: sausages! mmm, mmmm. bon appetite. make time for what matters. pause your wifi with xfinity xfi and see the secret life of pets 2 in theaters. -- we are on did not just start today. it didn't just start with the 2020 debates. no. no. the arc that we are on, this arc of justice, started the day after that dark inauguration.
the day when i sat on that stage between bernie and john mccain and john mccain kept reciting to me names of dictators during that speech because he knew more than any of us what we were facing as a nation. he understood it. he knew because he knew this man more than any of us did. >> wow. what a fascinating story. >> no, it is, mika. i mean, again, it's good to get that read on john mccain. i certainly -- i get the same read from him, you know, when i talked to you about when i went to the office and great insight. insight a little different, elise jordan, from george w. bush's timeless review of the speech which still remains my favorite and is why -- let me tell you, though, i was not -- i was very critical of his policy
on most fronts, there are so many reasons to love george w. his review of trump's carnage speech was he top. how important, though, to hear john mccain, again, correctly, predicting that this guy had autocratic instincts? >> well, it goes with everything that we know of john mccain's history and legacy. and of his strong opposition to any autocrat and his belief in the importance of human freedom. to hear those comments it's not surprising at all. what's still surprising to me is that so many other republicans and democrats have learned the same lessons and yet, you know, i'm not blaming democrats here, but you look at republicans who previously were so supportive of, say, the bush administration's freedom agenda and now they will just blindly accept whatever dear leader tells them to go down. >> an interesting story from
senator klobuchar but not a surprising one, perhaps, given we know john mccain was critical of the president from the very moment he got in the race and years before that, in fact, and a critical moment in the political rise of donald trump came in 2015 when he first attacked john mccain as saying he was not a war hero because he got captured and surviving that, which was a huge canary, perhaps, that told us donald trump could survive a lot. >> not only survived it but rose. i think more people were -- it was the first moment when people thought something is going on with donald trump because the entire political class from left to right thought you can't attack john mccain, there is no way that's survivable and in fact not only does trump survive but rises. i think the reality is that mccain had trump's number all along and saw him with clarity, certainly there was personal anonymous there between the two of them, but he also saw him with clarity throughout the entire time he ran for president. look at those pictures, it does raise the question, once, again, the question has that persistently bedeviled people
which is what has happened to lindsey graham, someone who on almost everything else he and john mccain were side-by-side throughout their careers, they saw the world almost entirely the same, saw people almost entirely the same, saw donald trump exactly the same up until the moment that donald trump took -- assumed the oval office and all of a sudden lindsey graham became a different person. you see so many of those file photos have pictures of mccain and lindsey graham together. i mean, senator mccain has departed this mortal coil but lindsey graham is still with us. when you have these moments you are reminded of mcclain's clarity it raises the question of what the hell happened to lindsey? >> sadly it's not, willie a mystery. lindsey graham has a republican primary in 2020, he was having trouble in the state of south carolina and recent polls show that among republican senators he has one of the better approval ratings with the rank and file in the republican party in the state of south carolina.
he basically sold his soul, political soul, sold his political soul for, you know, 20 percentage points inside his own republican party. i guess unlike john mccain, lindsey graham didn't have the confidence and the assurance in his voters that he could speak truth to power and still get reelected in his state. >> and he is certainly not alone. republicans when you say why haven't they spoken out in these moments, they say, well, because they like their jobs and want to keep their jobs and are worried about getting reelected in their home states. i think, you know, even in this joe biden story out in japan over the weekend, a very limited number of republicans came out. adam kinzinger did, peter king did. they said i support the president on some things but you are not attacking joe biden in favor of kim jong-un on foreign soil. again, republicans not speaking out and lindsey graham leading the charge. meanwhile, this is interesting -- >> i just was going to say quickly, willie, though, you can
go back time and again, and i already talked about i executive order harry reid for five years for criticizing george bush when he was on foreign soil. you can go back and find one example after another example after another example of republicans attacking the press, republicans attacking democrats for being critical of george w. bush and other presidents when they were on foreign soil. again, once again, of core, the hypocrisy is just staggering. >> we didn't see much of it over the weekend. meanwhile, the populist and nationalist movement has gained significant ground in europe's parliament after the continent-wide elections. populists are expected to secure roughly 25% of the 751 seats, that's up from 20% five years ago. the results were felt significantly in several home countries, in france president macron's european parliament picks were defeated by the very far right national rally party headed by le pen. however, the elections had higher than usual turnout which could mean pro european voters
were more motivated than in the past. richard, what do you see here? >> the who will owing out of the center left and center right parties. 100 years ago this year that yates the great poet wrote the second coming, the center cannot hold. what we're seeing is far right, far left parties, much smaller parties. what was amazing in britain the conservative party came in fifth place. fifth place. >> because they haven't delivered on brexit. it was really -- it was a big referendum on the failure to -- >> but it also suggests to me how hard governing is going to be. i don't want to exaggerate the significance of the european parliament, but imagine some of these things getting replicated on a national level. you have small parties, far right, far left, how is anybody in europe going to be able to govern. the answer is they won't be able to govern. this is a signal how fragmented and polarized democratic politics around the world are becoming. >> and it really is, bob costa,
around the world. you can draw a straight line from washington to warsaw, you can look at other places that were freed of soviet tyranny in 1989, whether you are talking about hungary or poland or other countries. we had so much that we invested so much in. it does seem like a lot of european countries are taking the lead from donald trump and donald trump also taking the lead from a lot of nationalist leaders overseas. >> and you see the nationalism taking hold in asia as well. even prime minister shinzo abe has a nationalist strain to his governing style, of course, kxi jinping the president of china. go back to senator klobuchar for a second. i was inside the capital covering that all from the stairway where everyone walks out on that chilly day and i remember speaking to senator mccain, spoke to president george w. bush, they both appeared alarmed. george w. bush said to me at the time when i said what do you think of the speech, he said, good to see you and he walked
away. senator mccain -- but no -- it's important to remember from that moment as much as i saw president bush and senator mccain and others really appear alarmed by the president's address, you also saw so many republicans in that statuary hall and in the stairs inside the capital going up to steve bannon and steven miller and president trump and politically embracing them and saying we are here to follow you. you have taken us to power, we are here to follow and to follow your lead. so that was the beginning as a reporter to see the republican party submit and say, we are here under president trump to follow along. most of them, not all. >> not all, but most of them. boy, and what a legacy they are going to be leaving. they are going to have an awful lot they will have to explain to their children and grandchildren 20, 30 years from now. richard, though, let's talk about nationalism for a second
because sometimes we speak in shorthand. i read an article a month or so ago, i'm sure it was when one of your fine publications. >> it was. >> about the importance of nationalism. that we just throw the term nationalism out as -- as a negative. actually, western style liberal nationalism can be a good thing. the article sort of borrowed upon something that i've been saying for several years about -- i mean, i'm sure they don't want "morning joe," but it echoes what i've been saying about european leaders for about five years where they are so absolutist on open borders, they are so absolutist about letting mass flow of immigrants into their country that if you don't do that then you are a neo nazi. there has never been a middle ground in europe over the past
five years. which has naturally led to the sort of right wing nationalist governments growing in europe. so i've been asking when somebody finds a middle ground that says, hey, our borders are important to us, we're french, our culture is important to us, you know, we're british, our culture is important to us. explain how nationalism as described in the article is an important concept and how european leaders have to find that middle ground. >> you're right there. look, nationalism on one level can be healthy, it's a sense of identity, it's a sense of pride in country. when it goes too far it really hunts out entries and it defines not so much what you are, but what you are not and what you are against. what europe has always been really since the european project began after world war ii was a balance between
centralization, common rules coming out of brussels, yet steel national rules and identities coming out of the nearly 30 member countries and there's a tension. i think what you saw with what chancellor merkel did in germany at opening up the borders, at the height 8,000 people a day were entering germany, that would be the equivalent of over 30,000 people a day entering the united states. it simply overloaded the circuits, no the just in germany but everywhere else and it brought to the fore this question of what's the right balance between capitals and brussels and i think that's being -- i think that's being worked out. the article i think you may have also been referring to is bringing this back to the united states and it's the argument that every country needs its own narrative. here in the united states we have lost our narrative. what's happening is if we don't teach civics, we don't talk about the idea that we were founded on ideas, that this was not a country based on religion or race, but it was based upon openness as an idea of opportunity, since we don't teach it and since it's getting lost, then we've made ourselves
vulnerable for all sorts of people from donald trump to a lot of others suggesting alternative narratives. i think that's part of the crisis of what would be a healthy sense of identity and patriotism in the united states is we've lost the thread of our national history, of basically our political dna. >> and that is so critically important. of course, that article talked about, of course, the fact that we had stopped teaching history, the american experience over the past 240 years for a lot of different reasons. i have long been worried, willie, that the void that donald trump stepped into was a void that was created because we've stopped teaching civics in high school, we've stopped requiring the teaching of american history in college. and into that void donald trump has walked. now, we can teach and we should teach that of the first dozen or
so presidents the majority were slave holders. that is a part of our story. but we have to teach the ideas that those very flawed men brought not only to this country but to the world. because if you look at the founders' seven principles, the founding principles, even though they did not live by it in their own life, they gave those ideals to the world and if you look at those seven ideas today, each one of them speak to the failings of donald trump and speak to the challenges that we're facing as a democratic republic. >>.you used the right word, ideal. with err not there yet but we keep moving forward toward it and i think we will after donald trump has come and gone. we will come back in a minute with the most read op-eds. plus interesting reporting from "the new york times" on how the trump administration has hardened its attack on climate science. we are back in a moment.
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rose to 11 on monday. tourism officials said an attorney from colorado has died while descending from the world's tall's peak. officials blaming overcrowding, poor weather and lack of climbing experience for the 11 deaths, including half a dozen in the last week. a record number of climbers from supplemented everest in april and may, the peak climbing months, with the larger crowds groups of climbers have been stuck in lines up to the summit in so-called death zones, an area above 26,000 feet where most people need additional oxygen supplies to breathe. even with the extra help people can only survive at that altitude for a few hours. coming up on "morning joe," more on the president's claim that african-american voters will not back joe biden because of controversial crime legislation passed two decades ago. we will explain the hypocrisy there from the president next on "morning joe."
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after pulling the united states out of the paris climate accords, the trump administration will complete its rollback of the most significant federal effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions. the "new york times" reports the federal government no longer will fulfill what scientists say is one of the most urgent jobs of climate science, quote, reporting on the future effects of the rapidly warming plan either and showing what the earth could look like if the global economy continues to emit carbon dioxide.arth could look global economy continues to emit carbon dioxide. s assessments only show through 12040 instead of the end of the century and scientists say this approach is misleading.
richard haass, a continue iatiof the president and this white house's approach at climate change. >> yeah, i'm sure if we cut off all of the models to 2040 and bury our heads in the sand, then that will stop climate change. which is an attempt to discredit the science when it is overwhelmingly powerful. you can always find a few outliers but let me suggest something. why this attack on us -- and i think it actually doesn't have a lot to do with climate change. i think it is a symbolic issue. they are not debating the science. this has become saying this is an important issue and we have to maybe ultimately somewhat change the way we live our lives, change our energy mix and so forth. and this has become a populist issue where people are pushing back against what sciencists and elitists are saying. and i think it transcends the
details of the science. but this is tragic and future generations, they will look back on this administration and the united states for this and they where going to be as critical as anything else this administration is doing or not doing. >> well, it is an ongoing theme. s it the john maynard keynes theme. and the news article where donald trump said he didn't care about the $22 trillion debt. he didn't care about the record setting deficits. that the crash wasn't going to come until after he left office anyway. this seems to be the ongoing theme. and the challenge for other candidates trying to explain why a $22 trillion debt matter, why massive runaway deficit spending matter, why a $16 billion farm relief bill matters.
right now americans don't want to hear about the debt, don't want to hear about the deficit and a lot don't want to hear about climate change. so how do democrats or republicans who care about those issues get those issues over to them? >> we often talk about how president trump has shadowed the norms of american politics. and one of the norms that he has broken is how he has made politics about the visceral emotion about the now and that the long term debates that used to dominate the party about the federal deficit and is still dominate the democratic party about climate change and future of the environment, those have been shelved because of that evisceral emotion of the now every tweet, every hour, every minute there is a new story that dominates rather than having a longer term debate. and each candidate for president will have to counter that as they run in go2020.
can they mounts an argument to the country and if they can't, thelt be they will be in a difficult position. >> and the reason i ran for congress was to fight to balance the budget to lower the national debt. and here we are double the national debt from 2001 to 2009. they swore if they got in power again that they would bring down spending. if they got in control, they wouldn't repeat the same mistake. and it has gotten worse. again, a $16 billion farm subsidy. this is outrageous. and yet the republican party continues to turn their back on conservative values, on values of liberty. it is really staggering. >> they are turning their backs
on reality. robert, than y thank you. richard, if you could stick around, we want your thousaghts. and also president trump breaking with his advisers on the north korea missile tests and whether they violated united nations security council rules. bret stevens is here to discuss his new piece entitled how trump wins next year. and beto o'rourke has driven thousands of miles meeting every voter he can, but will it revive his presidential campaign? we have new reporting on that coming up on "morning joe." fr reporting on that coming up on "morning joe. fr hi, i'm dave. i supply 100% farm-fresh milk for lactaid. it's real milk, just without the lactose, so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then,
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no matter when you retire, your income doesn't have to. see how lincoln can help ensure you still have income every month of your retirement, guaranteed, at lincolnfinancial.com. . we'll back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 28, with joe, willie and me, we have former aide to the george w. bush house and state departments, white house reporter for the associated press, and columnist for the "new york times" bret stevens. president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. and stoerassociate editor of th "washington post" your eugene robinson is with us.
a great panel. while it is often humorist to watch the president speak, i'm a little shaken over his comments the past 36 hours. >> well, it was obviously concerning. i will tell you even his appearance was concerning to me, maybe it wasn't concerning to other people that didn't look -- i was worried about his health and well-being. he looked unhealthy. but maybe he is fine, maybe it was just very, very long demanding schedule. willie, let's talk about the weekend that we just passed. memorial day weekend. obviously veterans and those who have gone off and defended this country so important to you and so many other people. it seems that here we are 18 years after the beginning of the afghanistan war, after 9/11, and it is a forever are war. it seems to me that the best thing we can do for remembering those who gave their all is trying to make sure as we move
forward that we get somehow distangled from these forever wars and don't start new ones in venezuela, iran or north korea. >> yeah, we've reached the year would t where the kids not yet born on 9/11 will be shipping off to file the war that was started because of 9/11. so i think that i'm not the first person to be concerned that lessons of history are never learned, whether it was in vietnam or iraq or again and again when we -- the drums strt start to beat. and i hope that we pause when we read these stories on the front pages of the news papers about the imminent threat from iran or what is happening in venezuela and american troops rishequired confront that. and i hope that we remember the lives, the real people who we sent to those places and what it will mean to their families a
generation from now. it appears that we haven't, but let's hope this is the time when we do. >> we have to learn the lessons of iraq. i know i've learned a lot of lessons. 70 respect about of americans supported that war have learned a lot of lessons. but you look at the saber rattling toward venezuela and iran, it is deeply concerning. jonathan, let's go a little later fair. by the way yesterday fenway beautiful, there were a lot of veterans recognized at the park yesterday. and as they went through that, it was wonderful. but i was saying earlier that when they introduced bill bucknor -- or when they gave the sad news about bill buck nor's passing, there was a gasp and so much people applauding.nor's passing, there was a gasp and so much people applauding. everybody says he got a raw deal.
i got flooded from texts from sox fans. but i have yet to find one of the plans that blamed bucknor for what happened in 1986. and that is not revisionism. i won't tell you who i blamed and screamed at my television set at. but this guy, this guy was beloved by everybody i talked to at fenway. beloved. >> no question. he was a class act who didn't deserve what happened to happen. to be remembered by one play. he was a near hall of famer. by the time 1986 came around, he had broken down -- the whole season he would be lifted because of defensive reasons. but john mcnamara at the time left him out there because he wanted him to stay on the field for the world series win, which of course did not happen. you're right, others deserve the blame. but i think that what we have seen is there are moments -- he came back in 1990 and received
some cheers from fan, but also mythology was built around it that he was to blame for the loss. the game was tied when the ball went through his legs. i was in the park and there were very few dry eyes. it was a thunderous ovation and it meptdant a lot to him. all right. our top story of the day, president trump addressed the situation with iran during his press conference with prime minister abe. >> i really believe that iran would like to make a deal. and i think that is very smart of them and i think that is a possibility to happen also. look what happened since terminated the iran deal. when i first came in, they were a terror. now they are pulling back because they have serious economic problems. we have massive as you know massive sanction and other
things. the oil essentially dried up. and i'm not looking to hurt rafiran at all. i'm looking to have iran say no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons for iran. and i think we'll make a deal. i think iran again i think iran has tremendous economic potential. we're not looking for are a geemt change. i just want to make that clear. we're looking for no nuclear weapons. if you look at the deal that biden and president obama signed, they would have access, free access, to nuclear weapons where they wouldn't even be in violation in just a very short period of time. >> so richard haass, certainly it is comforting to hear the president is not looking for regime change in those countries despite how loathsome those regimes have been. it is something that we are not good at doing. but at the same time he is living in a fan about takes city
world talking about the denuclearization of iran and north korea. the question that lingers for any world leader, why would you give up your nuclear program after moammar gadhafi played by the rules, gave up his nuclear program and ended up dead. >> in the case of north korea, i agree 100% with you. with iran though they didoraril its nuclear program. you have the agreement that the united states backed out of and now they say they will back out of. constraints were too shorts lived. i think the real question is whether this president takes the momentum that he's gained from the economic sanz s the economic sanzanz sanctions, their contract is contracting. last i checked, they were still propping up the dictator, still the most powerful outside force in countries from lebanon to
iraq. but i think that there is a potential negotiation where we would be willing to re-enter an agreement with iran. it would have to cover obama sbc missiles, to have much longer constraints and in return they would get sanctions relief. that is at least what i would put on the table. that would be a logical goal of our policy. if you don't want war and you don't want regime change, then what do you want? it seems to me it has to be a deal. >> so no deal, more pressure on iran. do you see a strategy here from president trump and from john bolton perhaps? because iran has come out and said we see no negotiation with the united states. immeant or even inent aror even future. is the president doing something strategic or is he acting out? >> i hope it is strategic. >> do you see a strategy? >> i think ultimate for iran would be normalization for
normalization. which means extend iing it in exchange for an end to iran's claims to access to a nuclear fuel site. president trump says nuclear weapons but he doesn't know what he is talking about. it is at fuel site. and the role it plays in places like syria, yemen and so on. not enough to just ask them to be a normal country. there is nothing wrong with ale po policy of maximum economic pressure if your goal is to go to a negotiation. if it is a pre-ample for war, that is another story. >> and president trump tweeted sunday anyone associated with the 1994 crime bill will not doct have a chance of beiof elected. i only other hand helped fix the bad 1994 bill. super predator was the term
associated with the 1994 bill that sleepy joe biden was so heavily involved in passing. that was a dark period in american history, but has sleepy joe apologize? no. despite the bill passing with the support of mitch mcconnell and dan coats, the president tweets also ignore his own past. in 1989, donald trump took out a full page ad calling to bring back the death penalty for five young men accused of raping a jogger in central park. he alsoed a vow indicated tougher policing nationwide telling larry king, quote, the ad's basically very strong and voc vocal, they are saying bring back law and order. and i'm not just referring to new york, i'm referring to everything. here is more of what trump said. trump. so larry king in 1989. >> i'm also in favor of bringing back police informations that can do something instead of just turning their back because every
quality lawyer that represents people that are in trouble say the first thing they do is say police -- >> and new york city settled a multimillion-dollar lawsuit, but trump has not apologized nor changed his mind. writing in a 2014 daily news op-ed, quote, settling didn't mean innocence. speaking to the detectives on the case, try listening to the facts. these young men do not exactly have the past of angels. and the best we can do in a situation like this is 2k3wiis viewers and the american people the facts. and when this president lies, try to present the facts because he lies often. >> yes, often he does. i will stay one thing about that larry king live clip, you know, larry was on for so many years, i never realized he always had a distracting piano on in the
background. he was on for 20 years and i never knew that was off to the side. >> i never heard the piano. >> so liberace, never saw that coming. but gene robinson-46 an austin powers joke. but gene robinson, the question is, whether people are stupid enough-46 an austin powers joke. but gene robinson, the question is, whether people are stupid enough6 an austin powers joke. but gene robinson, the question is, whether people are stupid enough an austin powers joke. but gene robinson, the question is, whether people are stupid enough so blindly go along with it. he is so transparent that he is attacking joe biden already the way he tried to attack hillary clinton and his supporters are probably going yeah, do you think adonald is right on this. trump is trying to recreate the environment where he wins with 46% of the vote.donald is right. trump is trying to recreate the environment where he wins with 46% of the vote. and only way to do that, because
we talk about the white working class voters, they did help elect donald trump, but more pornly was that black turnout was depressed. >> right. and i would argue probably the most important factor. had there been higher african-american turnout in milwauk milwaukee, detroit, pittsburgh, donald trump would not be president. i'd be we have svery surprised happened genagain. and i'd be floored if more than a handful -- and i mean count on your five fingers of african-americans if they bought this line from donald trump whose history of racism is well documented and well-known. not just the central park five, but the racist birther theory.
his entire appeal to the most sort of angry sentiments of white grievants and white supremacy. i think people see that and know that and i don't think that this will be successful. but you're right that is what he is trying to do, he is trying to depress the african-american vote because that is basically the only way that he can get reelected. >> and if you watch that interview with larry king, you read the full page ad that donald trump took out calling for the death penalty for the five men who were later exonerated, you see a microcosm of what he is doing as president which is to take the emotional issue and fan the 234ri78 flame facts be ldamned. because he said larry, i got 15,000 letters about that ad, people loved it, none were negative. people love what i'm doing out here. it was really when you look back at that time, he was doing in
new york city what he is now doing around the world. >> exactly. let's see those 15,000 letters first of all. because you know that there weren't 15,000 letters. and it is amazing because even after they were definitively exonerated of this crime, it was proved that they didn't do it, i mean talk about proving innocence, dna evidence proven, and he was still like lock 'em up. it is just amazing. and so his fall back was that they weren't angels. it is just outrageous. and for him then to attack joe biden as somehow being what he is, the typical trump, you talk people for being what he is, for the faults that he displays, is ridiculo
ridiculous. and i don't think that anybody will buy it. >> and the latest column entitled how trump wins. bret writes more than 600 million indians kavanaugh their ballots over the past six weeks in the largest democratic election in the world. donald trump won. a week ago, several million australians wemts to the po s w. trump won. trump's name was on none of the ballots. the common thread isn't just right wing populism, it is contempt for the yid yl gi of them before us. it is a revolt against 9 people who s the people who say pay an immediate price to in-visible good. hatred of those who think that they can define that good while expecting someone else to pay for it. this is why i suspect trump will be reelected next year barring an economic meltdown or foreign policy shock. so this is something that i've seen and heard, i think there are a lot of progressives maybe
lulling themselves in tto a fal sense of security that there is no way that he can win again having forgotten the lessons of four years ago. but what do you see in 2020 that shows you so clearly that he could do if gent again? >> just to be clear, this article is not a wish, it is a warning. and the warning is that there is a right wing populist wave sweeping the world. it is not just australia and india. you saw the elections in europe, elections in brazil, in the philippines. wherever you look, right wing populists are doing well. in fact, trump is doing rather less well than other right wing populists because his personality is so toxic to so many people. but the left has a serious problem. and many of the themes that they seem to be associated with are themes that people feel put them -- someone else, something else, before the us, the nation,
the majority. so whether it is the politics of abolishing i.c.e. or politics of asking relatively poor people to bear the cost of climate change, all of that is bad news for the left. and the left has to find a way to start speaking on behalf of middles classes and working c classes against what they see as threats to their economic well-being, threats to their social status and cultural identity. the left used to know how to do this much better than the right. it used to be the right that spoke for the one percenters. but i feel like the left has lost that ability in recent years. and i think that as with 2016, when there was so much confidence this guy can't win, that is confidence that democrats, liberals, should check because the tide of history here is not on their side. >> i certainly agree that president trump can win again.
it would be foolish for liberals to discount that. but my question is this, you're drawing lessons from elections around the world. just a few months ago here at home, the democratic party had a strong midterm election and trends went their way. so why not take a lesson from that, why shouldn't democrats be confident? >> that is a perfectly fair point, but bear in mind barack obama took -- what did he call if? a shellacking in 2010. president clinton took another thumping in 1994. so midterm elections as predictors of what happens in the general is very different. another fact which i don't think gets enough play, like it or not -- i think you like it -- 3.6% unemployment. consistently high growth rates are typically recipes by which presidents get reelected. >> to jonathan's point, i would say that the eu parliamentary
election sunday, it did point in the trend line of increased turnout. increased youth participation. it mimicked whamd in tt happenee 2018 midterms. so i wonder if well see more energy among people who maybe wouldn't be as excited to turn out. >> for sure. gene robinson jump in. >> i read bret's column and i thought it was a really good column as a warning, but just a couple of questions. i mean, it seems to me that perhaps a lesson of the european election, it seems that the center got clobbered. it was the center more that got clobbered than the left specifically. and i wonder if we're not seeing a bit of that global ly, that te center seems to be taking it on the chin. there is definitely a rise in
the far right, but i'm not sure that the left is as clueless as it seems to be. they are speaking to people. and, you know, just look at our democratic race now and there are a couple candidates who are really speaking to people including trump voters like elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. so i'm wondering if it isn't a hollowing out of the center that we're seeing. >> i think you're making a very important point. another point i make in the column, though, is that center right populism -- excuse me, far right populism seems to have somewhat more potency than far left populism. and a lot of what i sense is that lot of working class or on middle class voters ultimately if you break it down, i suspect that the far right takes 55 to 45 and i'm guessing at those numbers there, which is why you
see this consistent sweep to the right globally. we're part of that global pattern. >> and i would say this though, mika, following up what gene said, we may actually be ahead of the curve of what we're seeing now in india, what we're seeing -- things that brelt brillia bret brilliantly brings up. voters have been put on notice. i think one of the most remarkable things as far as voting trends go is that black women in central alabama, not in an off year election, right, in a special election, came out and voted against the republican candidate in numbers that even exceeded those for barack obama in 2008 and 2012. you look at what women did across america in northern virginia, southern california,
going out, standing in the rain to vote against trump supporters in congress. i think america has been awakened to the danger hes of the short term thinking. i think conservatives. i think highly educated women in suburbs, they are gone from the trump republican party forever. so i think that we need to take bret's warning, it is a global trend. i'm hopeful though as geenne sa, no one will be lulled to sleep in 2020 by donald trump's lies. >> i will say talking to people, i'm still surprised at how many people are just so mad at washington and they don't care. and they plan on voting for him. they don't care what he does. they just are mad at washington. it is still there. br bret stevens, thank you. >> by the way, mika, a lot of those people that still say that, they are whites.
they are. they are white. they rptd black voaren't black shaw charlottesville asaw charlottesville and other things that donald trump has done. they were s-hole countries what you they were not white countries? if you are a woman, you see one misogynistic statement and action after another, white males may still be saying that, but it is a shrinking electorate for donald j. trump. >> bret stevens, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we'll be reading your column in the "new york times." still ahead, a new look at beto o'rourke, the new yorker is profiling the texas democrat, but the big question, can he revive his presidential campaign? you're watching "morning joe." c" uh-oh, looks like someone's
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though relaunched acknowledging that things weren't registering for you, you apologized for the vani"vanity " cover. can you escape some of the first impressions of you? >> the only way that i will have any chance is to go everywhere, meet with everyone, leave no one behind and take no one for xwlantsed. is so that is what i'm focused on. >> maybe with the vani"vanity f cover and the bringing launch thlaunch -- the big launch, that you looked out of step? >> i don't know about that. the opportunities that i've had to meet with people, snarkiness, the cynicism, all of that is gone. >> that was beto o'rourke speaking on sunday. and joining us is william finnegan. he profiles the democrat in a
piece sfwhilg piece entitled beto o'rourke stays on the road. writing that he semi announced his candidacy in vani"vanity fa but he said i want to be in it, i'm born to be in it. it has become entitled declaration and thooat was soon distorted. an us a traaustralian editor sa that the guy who says he was born to rule? and so it seems beto can't get out of this space. i saw it as a genuine answer, but something feels still a little off about it all. >> i don't know. you know, i actually -- there are a lot of things i loved about that clip. margaret brennan asked if he was
going to apologize it for "vanity fair" and he said i don't know about that. so he needs to stop apologizing and he needs too start saying yes, i have this background and i'm going to use to reach as many people as i can to help people. i've gone from cringing at this guy's candidacy to liking what i'm seeing. and william, let me bring you in. if you are a young candidate and you want to run for office, you don't have to take a political science class. you can look at beto phase one, i know that is not what i do, and then look at beto phase two and go that is exactly what you do. knock on door, hold a ton of town hall meetings. this guy actually is doing i would suggest everything right right now. >> well, he is kind of reprising
his senate campaign last year. that is what he did was visit all 254 counties in texas. go to the reddest places in the state and so on. and he is kind of doing that again with iowa and new hampshire in particular, but he's driven across like 14 states. and i'm not so sure that that scales up. you know, he was kind of turning to down national television interviews for weeks and weeks and went off the radar nationally. i was on the road with him and saw him with koud crocrowds and connecting but the poll numbers were dropping. >> and what do we have, six months, six, sec rk, seven mont iowa. and instead of being on "vanity fair" covers, you are knocking on doors, holding town hall
meetings, and quietly building this base, quietly building this political ground swell that then carries you over the finish line at the end. i mean to me i like the proposal because it does seem a lot like he did in texas. >> it does and you have to figure out how to nationalize that. and i'm interested in reading your piece the way that he talks about his own campaign, because let's be honest, last year his campaign was a national campaign. he got so much coverage from the national press. he came within a whisker of up ending a sitting snenator in a red state. did you get the sense that he is surprised that he is sitting at 6th or 7th place 2% or 4%? in other words, did he sort of assume given the way that he was treated last year that he would rise near the top of this democratic field? >> no, i didn't get that impression. in fact that was never
discussed. he professed not to be concerned about it. and just to be into connecting and listening. it was really quite powerful on the stump and quite persuasive. but i'm sure you noticed that he sort of turned and said okay, okay, and you saw him on ray ch maddox and "the view" and i think that he was on "face the nation" yesterday. he is now doing the tv. so he was aware of it, but it wasn't really the conversation. >> is he as critical of himself privately as you talk to him? we talked about him on "the view" and almost his shoulders were slumped, his head was hung and he was apologizing about vani"vanity fair" and talking a his privilege. it felt like an apology tour.
does he come off that way privately? >> no, not that way exactly. he is not a slumped -- >> he doesn't look like way when he campaigns. >> not at all. when he has momentum, i mean i don't know if you saw him like on cnn town hall where he took the sort of center stage and just, you know -- he showed what he can do, which is not usually what he does. he does not have the usual i'm in command here, i'm showing -- this is with audiences. but no, in private, he is actually much more sort of articulate and knowledgeable than what you see -- almost like he doesn't like to show off in public. it is a strange affect. he did have a bunch of stumbles that he kept getting asked about and turned in to an apology tour. >> in a 2350e8d where field wh break through, it seems like
pete bouttigieg has taken o'rourke elaine. has he talked about going on the attack of going against the other democratic rivals? highw he hasn't really done that yet. do you anticipate that change something. >> i don't. he is relentlessly positive about the democrats. he hardly mentions trump. he is just so set on like what i'm going to do and what we're going to do together. and he is not going demonize republicans, not the time for name calling. drawing a huge distinction between himself and the president. but i haven't heard him saying a disparaging word against the fellow democrats. >> >> biden did go after trump. you don't think o'rourke will do that? >> i think he might against trump. i think you will see more of that. even in weeks where he was kind of buried in the local campaign as it were, he admitted that the
real electric line in his speeches were always the one that ended with to defeat donald trump. >> i just think all these -- there are so many candidates, i think to stand out here, you got to know who you are. you got to know what your goal is. and if you are regrouping several times along the way, sorry, no time. got to move on. got to find somebody who can beat trump and do something for this country. you can't be regrouping halfway through a campaign and apologizing for yourself. >> if i may respectfully disagree with the gentlewoman from my house hold. >> you can but you'll be wrong. >> i will just say, yes, i understand that -- what sign do you have up in our house? >> the mueller picture in our kitchen? >> no, that is a picture, not a sign. something about like mika is always right or something like that. >> oh, yeah, about marriage where the wife is always right. go ahead. >> gentle reminders of that throughout my house. but, you know, certainly not
drawing my little congress allege campaign in comparison with any presidential campaign, but what i did, i started 18 months early and when people asked why you started so early, i said because i'm going to screw up for the first six months but nobody will see it, nobody will notice. and by the time everybody starts noticing, i'm going to be a year into the campaign. and beto still has six, se rk, months. what you want to see from a leader is the ability to adjust to rob problems. the act to adjust to hardships and be a xwchgile enough to mov forward. you remember in late 2007, we were tearing john mccain's campaign to shreds. i'm leaving pensacola as i'm leaving my parent's house, my dad says don't you forget john
mccain. you keep an eye on john mccain, he'll be back. john mccain adjusted. heed had some massive operation. and then he started flying commercial, started flying in coach, he had two, three, four, five people and he rebuilt his campaign from the ground up. that is what you want to see on a candidate. that is what you want to see in a politician. that is what you want to see in a leader where they make a mistake and they are agile enough toed d ed adjust on the. i'm not saying that beto will win, but we'll see. it is early. >> i just think that there is no time for regrouping and for trying to see, you know, how you mess up your campaign along the way. this is a different situation we're in. and if you look at pete buttigieg, everything he does is pitch perfect, it is laser focused, right or target in terms of tone, dynamic, message.
everything. and that matters. that is why he is standing out. i feel like being a democrat potentially running against trump this time around, it is like being a woman in tv news trying to break through. you have to be perfect. and then everything else comes with it. there is no time to mess up because they will move on and take another. there is no time to figure out whether or not you are apologetic when be a white man or not. it is sort of strange. no time for this. >> it is the second inning. and i know, elyse, that you and mika love my baseball analogies. >> yeah, they are just so interesting. >> the last two games i've been through at fenway, rick porcello gave up four runs in the first and then yesterday he gave up three runs and then he calmed down. this is a nine inning game. we're in the second inning. >> you're generous. >> no, i'm not generous. listen, i will tell you one other thing that people always told me when i was a young
campaigner, that americans don't focus until the last ten days. and get what? americans don't focus until the last ten days. if two weeks matter, newt gingrich would have won iowa back in 2012. new get beginni newt beginning wouwould have >> and i did discount beto o'rourke after the cover of "vanity fair." i wouldn't have encouraged a canned daet to pursue that. but then i noticed that beto was at tras attracting top flilt tghtal le . so i thought they are seeing
something. so are the crowds coming out? because i know that has been a problem for biden, yet beto has always had enthusiastic backers. >> yeah, he has quite a powerful grass roots campaign. it is sort of extrapolated from texas where they built on this model that i think bernie sanders kind of pioneered, distributed organizing. they give volunteers a lot of leeway. and bernie has it more road tested this time. but so does beto. and his people are working really hard for him and getting the word out before he gets there. what feels like a kind of do it yourself way, but then the people are there. and he delivers. so at that level, i mean, if you are just traveling with him, it looks like he is going xwratgre guns. but he is not doing it nationally, so you know that it is time for change.
but people know all this. and he has hired obama veterans, delegate specialists, and he has an excellent digital fund raising operation. he raised $80 million for the senate race. all-time record for the senate. so i think that he is in a for a while. and i don't know if it is the second inning, but it is early days yet. >> you know, willie, you look at -- john heilemann, first of all, i agree with john says about beto right now and that is nobody has a hire ceilireeeilin beto. he started big, he collapsed. but as long as they keep doing what they are doing which is barack obama did in the summer of 2007 when hillary clinton was still expected to do well, obama was investing in the ground game. obama was doing the ground game. they were building up the people that would carry them to victory when people started focusing the
last ten days. again, i'm not here to say that beto will even make to iowa, i don't know, but he is the right track. >> and a lot of smart people, some of them, who have won presidential elections in the last decade who will tell you don't count out beto. they believe in his ability to raise money and they say don't count beto out. i do agree that there is a visceral thing in the country where people say i'm not looking for somebody who has been on a journey of self discovery, going on road trips and blogging. i need somebody who can stand up to the president. >> the piece is in the new issue of the "new yorker," william finney finney began, thank you so much. >> do you not kash about my jou journey, my personal journey?
>> i care about your journey. >> by the way, let's look at the cover of the "new yorker." i've decided i'm going to give this to katherine for her birthday. i'm going to frame it. what a wonderful -- we showed it last week, but what a wonderful cover, called the shining. >> oh, come on, man. tonight on msnbc, lawrence owe donele will ha o'donnell will have a live town hall with senator kamala harris. watch the last word tonight at 10:00 p.m. and still ahead, something perhaps a bit different. it took a while, but many measures now see medicinal marijuana in a different light. could the same thing happen with psychedelics? one of the world's experts on that front joins us next to talk when it. >> john heilemann? >> no. >> john heilemann? >> no. it's a dangerous world. ah! [ grunt ] whoo-hoo!
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voters made history with the first popular vote in the u.s. to decriminalize hallucinogenic mushrooms. joining us now, best-selling author, michael pollan. his book, "how to change your mind: what the new science of psych deckics teach us about addiction and transcendence." it's now in paperback. it's good to have you on the show. and joe, we were talking about this the other day. >> we were? >> we were even talking about just marijuana and how the industry has really kind of pushed it now at this point on people who think it's great for them. and i stand still on the category of people who don't think so. >> well, you know, it's fascinating. first of all, michael, i saw your book in the newsroom. i picked it up, ran on the plane, and they said, good, mika's really into this self-improvement and i'm trying
to be a more sensitive man. i'm going to read this book on mindfulness and radical acceptance. wow, was i surprised! there's so many things to talk about here. the first thing that struck me, i'm a huge beatles fan and i remember listening to john lennon and paul mccartney in the 1960s saying that lsd brought them closer to god. and i was like, oh, man, come on. billy graham and everybody else obviously freaking out. i was shocked reading your book, looking at the -- what was it, a 2006 johns hopkins study where even atheists who were terminal would leave their body in these psychedelic trips. and my favorite quote was the atheist who was asked, how did it make you feel, and she said, well, i hate to say this, i'm an atheist, it brought me closer to god and made me realize that there was more out there.
explain that, if you can, to our viewers? >> well, people on high-dose psychedelic trip, which is being used in a therapeutic context now with sill siben or magic mushrooms have a mystical experience where they feel like their sense of self is dissolving and they're merging with something larger, which some people interpret as a divinity. she was an interesting character. because she told me, and i kissed the face of god. and i said, wait a minute, you told me you're an atheist. and how can you kiss the face of god? and she said, we don't have a word big enough for what i felt. god is the biggest word we have. so i saw lots of people having a transformative spiritual experience, which certainly piqued my curiosity. >> you know, what's so interesting, and mika, i was having this discussion with a family member yesterday and it's fascinating that you're here today, but i had read malcolm gladwell's article on medicinal marijuana from "the new yorker,"
and gladwell said, everything we've heard about the medicinal effects of marijuana right now are inconclusive. you name it, it's inconclusive. it's quite frankly, it's pseudo science. how odd that pot, which we've grown to accept as a mainstream drug, is being oversold while actually in science labs -- and i want to underline this for everybody watching, in a medical setting, that these psychedelics actually do help people who are terminal, help people with certain psychiatric -- >> depression, anxiety. >> it's amazing. yeah, you know, it's interesting, there's much more science, mainstream science about psychedelics than there ever has been about cannabis. and yet cannabis has been approved because it's regarded as a medicine. the reason for that is, first of
all, i think psychedelics are a much more powerful medicine than cannabis and can do more for people with mental disorders, but also, the government made it very hard to study cannabis. you had to use their pot, which they grew on a farm in mississippi and they've been growing it the same way since the 1970s, and it's just not very good. and they put many barriers in the way. and the reason was that cannabis was very important to the drug war. you didn't have a big drug war without all of these cannabis crimes. psychedelics is a much smaller percentage of the pie in terms of drugs, illicit drugs, and beginning in the late '90s, the fda decided, we're going to let people study psychedelics, psilocybin in particular, because it's less controversial than lsd, it could have been lsd, so they've allowed some very good science to be done at places like nyu, john hopkins, ucla, mainstream medical
institutions. and now we have a substantial body of science that suggests that this may be a very important psychiatric medicine, used in this context. >> well, it's interesting, you probably know my friend, rick d doblin who has been involved in funding a lot of this research. >> he's been a pioneer. >> for ptsd, talk about this a little bit, for both terminal patients and for soldiers with ptsd on both psilocybin and mdma, ecstasy, now there's a lot of people and there are a lot of people who are in pain and need help. >> mdma or ecstasy, some people consider it a psychedelic, rick does, may or may not be, works on a different set of brain receptors. but it has proven already in phase ii fda trials to be very effective in treating ptsd. what it seems to do is lower the fear response, the amygdala, so you can bring out these traumatic memories, deal with them, without freaking out, without having the emotional charge that usually accompanies
them, talk to a therapist about it, and then when you put those memories away, they've lost a lot of their charge. we have very little to treat ptsd that works. >> the book is "how to change your mind: what the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, dying, addiction, depression and transcendence." fascinating. now out in paperback. michael pollan, always great to have you on the show. thank you very much for coming in. >> thank you, mika. and still ahead, president trump appears to side with kim jong-un over former vice president joe biden and dismisses north korea's most recent missile test. we'll talk about what it all means for american diplomacy. plus, senator and 2020 candidate amy klobuchar recalls john mccain's blistering response to president trump's inauguration. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. let me ask you something. can the past help you write the future?
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that's why we redesigned humira. we wanted to make the experience better for you. now there's less pain immediately following injection. we've reduced the size of the needle and removed the citrate buffers. and it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. humira citrate-free is here. a little change can make a big difference. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. here's to you. north korea best not make
anymore threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> and then we fell in love, okay? no, really. he wrote me beautiful letters. and they're great letters. we fell in love. >> you're not bothered at all by the small missiles? >> no, i'm not. i am personally not. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 28th, along with joe, willie, and me, we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john heilemann, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan, president of the council on foreign relations, richard haas and political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. i hope everyone had a great weekend. let's talk about president trump's weekend, because he's on his way back to washington this morning after spending the
memorial day weekend in japan. there he met with u.s. troops and also downplayed the recent missile test by north korea. during the course of his visit, trump suggested that he was not personally bothered by the short-range missile test carried out by pyongyang earlier this month. in a tweet on saturday, the president wrote, north korea fired off some small weapons which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. i have confidence that chairman kim will keep his promise and also smiled when he called swamp man joe biden, spelled wrong, a low-iq individual and worse. perhaps that's sending me a signal. the president originally spelled biden's name wrong, but corrected nitcorrect ed it in a follow-up tweet. the president made that tweet despite the fact that those missiles pose a security threat
to allies in the region, including japan. during a press conference yesterday, japan's prime minister shinzo abe, standing next to trump, disagreed with the president's assessment of the missile tests, saying it violated u.n. security council resolutions. when asked about the tests, the president, who it must have been really hot in there, offered this assessment. >> my people think it could have been a violation, as you know. i view it differently. i view it as a man, perhaps he wants to get attention. and perhaps not. who knows. it doesn't matter. all i know is that there have been no nuclear tests, there have been no ballistic missiles going out, there have been no long-range missiles going out. and i think that some day, we'll have a deal. i'm not in a rush. tremendous sanctions being put on the country of north korea and again, kim jong-un understands the unbelievable economic potential that country
has. >> all right, joe. what do you think? >> yeah, i don't -- well, i don't really understand -- i don't understand, first of all, why would say that the missiles cause you no concern when you're actually in a country, one of our closest allies, that these missiles pose a direct threat to. that's, of course, disturbing. i'm going to ask richard haass about that. but secondly, of course, we talk about donald trump shattering the norms of the presidency, shattering the norms of democratic values, of american values as a leader. what is more shattering of those enormous, and when you have the president of the united states actually saying that he was smiling at the fact that the communist dictator of a country that's long been an enemy of the united states of america was sending him a secret signal, by attacking a domestic political opponent, that is, of course, that shatters democratic norms. it's also very dangerous and
it's what he did four years ago when he tried to talk directly to russia and told him to try to get hillary clinton's e-mails. but richard haass, everybody knows this about donald trump by now, but we have to restate it. let's talk about the bigger picture here. is there a bigger picture? is donald trump working towards a deal that we don't know about? is that why he's ignoring can north koreans rubbing his nose in mud, seemingly every month? >> well, if he's working towards a deal, as you say, it's a deal we don't know about. he basically said he wants denuclearization. that is not going to happen. i think the odds of it happening are about zero. he probably could have a deal, joe, if he's willing to compromise, that we would give north korea some sanctions relief in exchange for some degree of limits, presumably verified, but in the meantime, the president keeps saying he's not in a rush and he ought to be
a little bit in a rush. the kind of test that north korea did the other day is a way they could learn different things. >> so let me ask you this on china. an example of the president bumbling his way through on china, but if you look at it from 30,000 feet, most americans are glad the president is getting tough on china. finally a president is getting tough on china, even though he has no game plan, he's a day trader. so it's going to end badly, but his instinct there is right. what about on north korea, where we were talking about the possibility of a war a year ago? is his instinct not right on north korea to try -- first of all, to ignore john bolton and other people who would love to go to war on the korean peninsula, but are his instincts correct to play this out, to continue to give them a little more slack in hopes of getting a deal? >> short answer is no.
his instinct is right not to want to have a war, but his instinct is not right to left this drift. we ought to press for a deal, because north korea is using time to increase the amount of fissile material it has, to test like they did the other day. obviously, japan is, because they would reach japan. and it sends a powerful message that if north korea were willing to cut a deal where it limited some of its long-range systems that made us happy, he would be willing to throw south korea or japan under the bus. it reinforces the sense that allies are not a concern for him. so, again, i think this is potentially a deal to be had out there. one that would be consistent with our allied and our own interests, but i don't see the president so far willing to take it. >> as president trump praised kim jong-un, he continued his criticism of potential 2020 opponent joe biden during a news conference yesterday, where the president was asked about his
attacks on the former vice president. >> cousin it give you pause at all to be appearing to side with a brutal dictator instead of with a fellow american, the former vice president, joe biden? >> well, kim jong-un made a statement that joe biden is a low-iq individual. he probably is, based on his record. i think i agree with him on that. >> but in terms of criticism that you're sort of supporting a dictator instead of an american vice president? >> well, when i look at what's been done by our vice president and the president, when i look at the horrible iran deal that they made, look what happened since i terminated the iran deal. look what has happened to iran. iran, when i first came into office, was a terror. they were fighting in many locations all over the middle east. they were behind every single major attack, whether it was syria, whether it was yemen, whether it was individual smaller areas, whether it was taking away oil from people, they were involved with everything. now they're pulling back,
because they've got serious economic problems. i can tell you that joe biden was a disaster. his administration, with president obama, they were basically a disaster when it came to so many things. whether it was economy, whether it was military, defense, no matter what it was, they had a lot of problems. so i'm not a fan. >> you know, willie, it bears repeating and reminding our viewers that the dixie chicks' career was shattered on country music stations across america. there were dixie chick album burnings, there were dixie chick bans because they spoke ill of an american president on foreign soil. this is how far we've come. we now have a president, who is supported by a lot of those people who probably said, i'm
not ever gonna listen to dixie chicks again! who attacked an american vice president and an american president on foreign soil. that is something you do not do. i remember lashing into harry reid for five years, for attacking george w. bush when he was in russia. it's something you don't do. >> and not just attacking a former vice president, but doing it as a contrast to the dictator of north korea. in other words, he's choosing the north korean dictator over the former vice president of the united states. and elise, let's remind people, if for president trump it's not enough that kim jong-un starves and murders his people or that he threatens our allies with nuclear weapons, less than two years ago, he murdered an american college student. he murdered a young american man. this person that the president of the united states is taking a side over the vice president of
the united states. this is one of those things, again, where we get numb to the president sometimes. we don't have to be surprised, but we ought to be outraged by what we saw over the weekend. >> well, i'm just concerned that every norm in how we behave at home and abroad has just been thrown out the window and we expect that, oh, the american president can behave like this and it will just be excused, because that's who he is, and we're not supposed to be any better than that. and he just gets out on the international stage and is play accounta blatantly lying about so many things, number one, the nuclear deal with iran, which the obama administration did not say, oh, you can have nukes, like donald trump said in that press avail, but i just can't imagine being the japanese and hosting donald trump and then just having him essentially stab you in the eye. >> bob costa, i'm getting past elise. that's very violent mississippi
imagery there, stabbing you in the eye. so, bob, so the president obviously is focused on 2020. everything has to do with the 2020 race now. he's keyed in on joe biden. he even went after him and attacked him on the crime bill. i read that stewart stevens last night was suggesting that he's going to start attacking joe biden on the crime bill because he knows one of the reasons why he won was because african-american turnout was depressed for the first time in 20 years, because trump and the russians were sending negative messages about hillary to black voters. is that something we're going to see over the next year or so, a constant hammering away on issues like the crime bill? >> stepping back and talking to republican consultants across the country and democratic consultants, they say there's a pattern here with these attacks on vice president biden and what the president's doing over in japan. where is biden's key political
appeal? in the industrial midwest. where is president trump at this moment struggling to cut a deal? he's struggling to cut a deal with the japanese. he has delayed the auto tariffs with the japanese for six months, did the same with the european union. still no u.s./japanese trade deal. a trade deal with china, he's whispering some positive words, so the markets are up today. still no deal, necessarily, on the horizon. this is a white house based on my conversations with republican leaders, is worried about trade moving towards the democrats in 2020, and those voters who flipped to trump in 2016 may be drifting towards biden, unless they feel the president has that populous edge on trade. so by attacking vice president biden, he's really trying to assure his base, even though there's no trade deal, he's still tough on trade. still ahead on "morning joe," during donald trump's inauguration, senator john mccain was naming other names. the arizona republican was reportedly listing the world's
dictators as president trump was sworn into office. we'll talk about that. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the overnight severe weather. bill? >> well, we're in the middle of a multi-day, multi-billion-dollar outbreak. we've had over 500 tornadoes this month. in the last eight days, we've had at least ten tornados, each and every single day, and we continue to look at these pictures. these are some of the overnight pictures that we had from dayton, ohio. this was a tornado that headed in about 10:00 to 11:00 p.m. a lot of structural damage, that's a school we were looking at there. significant problems. they just held a presser at the city hall, amazingly, no fatalities. this looks like it was an ef-3, possibly. a very strong one. we have a lot of significant flooding and we have flooding on the mississippi river, the missouri river, the illinois river, these are pictures of the arkansas river. and this one is going to stay at record levels for a while, because it's still raining. the dam is full and there's still more water to come and they have to release more water. so some people are going to be out of their homes for maybe a week, maybe two weeks.
then they'll get home and see the devastation. let's get to the maps and show what we're going to deal with. this was the tornadoes from yesterday, 51 reports. i don't think we're going to get that many today, but we're still going to have significant numbers of tornadoes, 48 million people at risk. we will see super cell thunderstorms with isolated tornadoes, large hail, damaging winds. they'll be forming in ohio near pittsburgh and sliding towards philadelphia this evening. we'll have to watch that into new jersey. and then this huge area that's been hit so many times this spring from kansas city to tulsa down to dallas is at risk. and because the water levels are so high in all the rivers, there's nowhere for it to go, so it pours and we have flash fl d flooding. from the quad cities to des moines over to peoria and a section from south dakota into western nebraska. as far as the rainfall totals go, easily 3 inches plus around forth smith. that's where i just showed you those pictures of the arkansas river halfway up that house, and another 3 inches of rain in the next two days. can you imagine? this is not fair in one of the worst spring flooding events they've ever seen out there in the middle of the country.
areas in the east, we have to watch out for some thunderstorms. washington, d.c., was just hit about an hour ago. new york city, you'll have to wait until this afternoon. most of the damaging ones should be to the south. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. in't easy. 12 hours? 20 dogs? where's your belly rubs? after a day of chasing dogs you shouldn't have to chase down payments. (vo) send invoices and accept payments to get paid twice as fast.
the path that we are on did not just start today. it didn't just start with the 2020 debate. oh, no. the arc that we are on, this arc of justice started the day after that dark inauguration. that day when i sat on that stage between bernie and john mccain and john mccain kept reciting to me names of dictators during that speech, because he knew more than any of us what we were facing as a nation. he understood it. he knew because he knew this man
more than any of us did. >> wow. what a fascinating story. >> no, it is, mika. and again, it's good to get that read on john mccain. i certainly, i got the same read from him when i -- i talked to you about when i went to the office. and great insight. his insight, a little different, elise jordan from george w. bush's timeless review of the speech, which still remains my favorite. let me tell you, though i was not -- i was very critical of his policy on most fronts. there are so many reasons to love george w. and his review of trump's speech was at the top. but how important, though, to hear john mccain, again, correctly predicting that this guy had autocratic instincts. >> well, it goes with everything
that we know of john mccain's history and legacy. and of his strong opposition to any autocrat and his belief in the importance of human freedom. and so to hear those comments, it's not surprising at all. what's still surprising to me is that so many other republicans and democrats have learned the same lessons and yet, you know, i'm not blaming democrats here, but you look at republicans who previously were so supportive of, say, the bush administration's freedom agenda, and now they will just blindly accept whatever dear leader tells to go down. >> it's an interesting story from senator klobuchar, but not a surprising one, perhaps, given that we know john mccain was critical of the president from the very moment he got in the race and years before that, in fact. and a critical moment in the political rise of donald trump came in 2015, when he first attacked john mccain saying he was not a war hero because he got captured, and surviving that, which was a huge canary,
perhaps, that told us that donald trump could survive a lot. >> not only survive it, but rose. and i think more people were -- it was the first moment when people thought, something's going on with donald trump, because the entire political class, from left to right, thought, you can't attack john mccain. there's no way that's survivable. and in fact, not only does trump survive, but rises. i think the reality is that mccain had trump's number all along. and saw him with clarity. certainly, there was personal animus there between the two of them, but he also saw him with clarity throughout the entire he ran for president. and just looking at those pictures, it does raise the question once again, the question that has persistently bedeviled people at this table and other tables, is that is, what has happened to lindsey graham. a person that on almost everything else, he and john mccain were side by side throughout their careers, they saw the world almost entirely the same, saw people almost entirely the same, and donald trump the same up until the moment that donald trump assumed the oval office and then all of a sudden lindsey graham became a
different person. i mention that because you see so many of these file photos have pictures of mccain and lyndslyn lindsey graham together. and senator mccain has departed this mortal coil, but lindsey graham is still with us, and it just raises the question of what the hell happened to lindsey? >> sadly, willie, it's not a mystery. lindsey graham has a republican primary in 2020. he was having trouble in the state of south carolina and recent polls show that among republican senators, he has one of the better approval ratings with the rank and file in the republican party in the state of south carolina. he basically sold his soul, political soul, sold his political soul for, you know, 20 percentage points inside his own republican party. i guess, unlike john mccain, lindsey graham didn't have the confidence and the assurance in his voters that he could speak
truth to power, and still get re-elected in a state. >> and he's certainly not alone. and republicans, when you say, why haven't they spoken out in these moments, they say, well, they like their jobs and they want to keep their jobs, and they're worry about being re-elected in their home states. so i think even in this joe biden story out in japan over the weekend, a very limited number of republicans came out. adam kinzinger did, peter king did, there were some others who came out and said, wait a minute, now, i support the president on some things, but you're not attacking joe biden in favor of kim jong-un on foreign soil. so, again, republicans are not speaking out and lindsey graham leading the charge. >> coming up on "morning joe," richard haas takes us back overseas from the fallout from europe's elections. what the vote means for u.s. trade, immigration, and national security. "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe" is back in a moment everyone's got to listen to mom. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family's diet,
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populists are expected to secure roughly 25% of the 751 seats, that's up from 20% five years ago. the results were felt significantly in several home countries in france. president macron's european parliament picks were defeated by the very far-right national rally party, headed by marine le pen. the elections had higher than usual turnout, which could mean prof europe pro-european voters were more motivated than in the past. >> i see the hollowing out of the center right and center left parties. things fall apart, the center cannot hold. the center cannot hold. and what we're seeing is far right, far-left parties. much smaller parties. and what was amazing in say, britain, the conservative party came in fifth place. fifth place. and -- >> because they haven't delivered on brexit. it was a big referendum on their failure to -- >> but what you see also suggests to me is how hard
governing is going to be. i don't want to exaggerate the significance of the european parliament, but imagine some of these things get replicated on a national level. this is a real signal of how fragmented and polarized democratic politics around the world are becoming. >> and it really is bob costa, around the world. you can draw a straight line from washington to warsaw. you can look at other places that were freed of soviet tyranny in 1989. whether you're talking about hungary or poland or other countries that we had so much that we invested so much in, it does seem like a lot of european countries are taking the lead from donald trump and donald trump also taking the lead from a lot of nationalist leaders overseas. >> and you see nationalism taking hold in ailsia, as well. prime minister shinzo abe has a national strain to his governing
style. of course, xi jinping, the president of china. skbr and just go back to senator klobuchar for a second. i was inside the capitol covering that all from the stairway where everyone walks out on that chilly day, and i remember speaking to senator m mccain and president george w. bush. and i said, what do you think of the speech? he said, good to see you, and walked we. and senator mccain was alarmed and rattled. but it's important to remember from that moment, as much as i saw senator mccain and president bush and others really alarmed by the president's address, you saw so many republicans in that hall going up to steve bannon and politically embracing them saying, we are here to follow you. you have taken us to power. so we are here to follow your lead. that was the beginning as a
reporter to see the republican party submit and say, we are here, under president trump, and to follow along. most of them. not all. >> not all, but most of them richard, explain how nationalism, as described in the article, is an important concept. and how european leaders have to find that middle ground? >> you're right. look, nationalism, on one level, can be healthy. it's a sense of identity, it's a sense of pride in country. when it goes too far, it really hunts out enemies. and it defines not so much what you are, but what you are not. and what you are against. what europe has always been really since the european project began after world war ii was a balance between centralization, common rules coming out of brussels, yet still national rules and national identities coming out of the nearly 30 member countries. and there's attention. and i think what you saw with what chancellor merkle did in germany and essentially opening up the borders.
at the height, 8,000 people a day were entering germany. that would be the equivalent of over 30,000 people a day entering the united states. and it simply overloaded the circuits. not just in germany, but everywhere else. and it brought to the foreth what's the right balance between capitals and brussels? and i think that'si being worke. the article you may be referring to is bringing this back to the united states. and it's the argument that every country needs its own narrative. and here in the united states, we have lost our narrative. what's happening is, if we don't teach civics, if we don't talk about the idea that we were founded on ideas, that this is not a country based on religion or race, it was based upon openness and an idea of opportunity. if we don't teach it, we've made ourselves vulnerable from all sorts of people from donald trump and a lot of others, suggesting alternative narratives. >> coming up on "morning joe," we'll remember the life and legacy of baseball great bill buckner.
plus, it's one of the sketches putting dr. seuss in a whole new light. nazis and fascist, and communists all going along with a ride of america first. we'll talk about his work as a political cartoonist and how his work resonates today. "morning joe" is back in a moment. onates today "morning joe" is back in a moment the matters.ar...
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jeh johnson has profiled a number of creative geniuses including george lucas and jim hanson, and now he's turned his attention to dr. seuss with the new book, "becoming dr. seuss: theodore geisel and the making of an american imagination." what made you turn your sights on theodore geisel, giving all the incredible sort of imaginations that you've tried to really put words to? >> sure. well, he's one of those big names who does work you know. and that's sort of my lane. i really love to know what makes these people tick, what frustrates them, what inspires them, and with a name like this that emerges fully formed in our american imagination, i thought it would be fascinating to go back and look at those secret origin stoifr stories of his .p
>> what did you find out? >> he had his head turned by the movies in the 1950s. and, you know, was never really able to write children's books full-time for a living until he's in his 50s and finally hits it with "the cat in the hat," but a fascinating arc to his career. a number of times he could have gone off the rails. >> and give us a sense of what else you discovered in terms of what makes him tick and what kept him from going off the rails. >> one of the things that makes his books so great and one of the reasons we're still seeing places like "o, the places you'll go" selling today is he never looked down on his audience. he took children absolutely serious. he always warned other writers, don't try to fool them, they're too smart for you. they'll see right through you. >> it's so true! >> brian, it's willie. in fact, if you look on the amazon best seller right now, "o the places you'll go" is number four. >> graduation season. >> it's an incredible thing that they have that kind of staying power, that his work does. but you have an interesting anecdote in the book. you talk about, i think it was in 1937, by a twist of fate,
he's walking on the right side of madison avenue, runs into an old friend, and so is born his literary career. might not have been born if he was on the other side of the street. >> he was trying to sell, and to think i saw it on mulberry street, had been rejected by more than 30 publishers and he was walking down madison and was ready to take it home and burn it, and ran into an old friend of his from dartmouth and he said, i just got a job with vanguard publishing, let's take it upstairs and see if they'll buy it there. vanguard took it and published and he said, if i had walked down the other side of the street, i might be in the dry cleaning business now. >> and he's an activist, too. i took my kids to see the most recent version of "the lorax," and i was like, this was written a long time ago and it's all about environmental activism. >> he cautioned people not to read messages in his book, but "the lorax" was him getting mad.
he saw development encroaching and wanted to say something about it. and as he even said later about that book, i'm not anti-logging. he says, i write books that are printed in paper. i believe in -- you know, you can cut down trees, but i'm anti-being stupid. let's manage what we've got well. >> brian, this sounds like such a lovely story of an important career, and of course i'm going to zero in on what the producers put in front of me with probably the darkest part of his life's story that he was really very influenced by his wife and she had a lot of input into his work, but it took a dark and unresolved historical turn? >> yeah, helen, his first wife, was probably his first and most important reader, editor, influencer. had a great sense of plot and character. she was the one he trusted her implicitly on guiding him through those books. she knew if a rhyme was good for example. in the 1967 -- she had been ill
for quite a while, she did end up committing suicide in 1967. and he was married to another woman less than a year later. >> all right. john heilemann? >> so i'm really interested in the notion of this guy as having been, obviously, famous for all the dr. seuss, but having had a career beside that. he was a political cartoonist, an editorial cartoonist for a period of time before he became famous for this work. talk about that for a little bit. >> this is one of the moments where he could have gotten derailed. he had had a very successful career in advertising. had written around ten books, none of which had really shot lights out. so he drops everything to take up this career as a political cartoonist for a progressive newspaper out of new york. and he got into political cartooning, because he got mad at lindbergh. he really denied like -- he had lindbergh's number early. he didn't like the america first. he was very wary, he called out lindbergh for anti-semitism and he was really aware and very concern of their sort of
rhetoric very early on, even before we got into the war. he really believed in preparedness and didn't like the way lindbergh talked. >> the become is "becoming dr. seuss: theodore geisel and the making of an american imagination" and that he did. brian jay jones, thank you so much for being on. >> thank you. what a great morning. up next -- >> and mika, really quickly? >> yeah, yeah? >> how fascinating that dr. seuss saw the dangers of america first when the rest of america, most of america, did not. and here's a great example today, when we talk about republicans who will be remembered years for now for what they did not do, we're talking about what this man did in the 1930s. it stays with you. >> it's incredible. >> he made the right moral choice in the 1930s and so many people are turning a blind eye to what's going on in 2019.
>> great point. up next, remembering bill buckner with mike lupica and "curb your enthusiasm." keep it right here on "morning joe." enthusiasm. keep it right here on "morning joe. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.
the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. hi, it's real milk, just00% farmwithout the lactose, id. so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then, i guess those things over there can't actually be cows. must be some kind of really big dogs, then. sit! bad dog. picked up a little something for somebody's birthday. >> come on, let me see. >> guess whose name is on there? >> whose name? >> who's your fave? >> mookie wilson? >> yes! >> oh, my god! >> you have the most thoughtful wife in the world.
>> it wouldn't have happened if i didn't go to the show -- >> it was my idea. >> i did go pick it up. >> oh, you want to see it . >> hey, catch! >> what are you doing! >> sorry, i missed it! >> it's in the middle of the street! larry, what the hell were you doing! why'd you throw it to him?! i thought you were! >> it was a -- >> that was a good throw. you bobbled it! it was mookie wilson! >> oh, my god, it's my favorite show ever! am i susie? am i on "curb"? joining us now, best-selling author and columnist, mike lupica, his new book, "batting order" is out today and i have no idea what that clip had to do with your book and you being here, but it was still fun. joe, take it away. >> you know, mike, you're reading stories today, we're all reading stories today about
buckner and how the sports writers in boston were tough on him and fans were tough on him. and i'm sure they were. buckner himself said he shouted insults at his family. it was hard for him to forgive the sports don't know a real rx fan that sat through the '86 season and sat through the series that went away from that blaming buckner. i know that's folklore, but i have been inundated with emails, so many were happy he came back in 2008 because he was so beloved by the fenway faithful who followed the game. >> you know, the only positive of finding out about his passing yesterday was that a light got shined on the fact of what a great gentleman he was and how well he handled that, what a great baseball player. john and i talked to him before the show today. never struck out three times in a game. 2700 hits in the big leagues. after he passed yesterday, i
reached out to larry david. i immediately thought of that "curb your enthusiasm" which end with a baby being tossed out of a burning building, and bill buckner makes a diving catch after the baby bounces off the fireman's netting, and that he was able to laugh at it himself, laugh along with everybody else told you so much about the character of the guy, and larry said what a sweet and wonderful man he was, what a great experience for everybody on curb. >> as i said earlier today, of all of the great gifts he gave to boston and fans, the greatest was the grace he showed and what grace. but really, he was a great player. tyler kepner tweeted this. on sunday, 16 major leaguers struck out three times. buckner played 22 seasons and
never did it once. >> so funny, as mike was talking, i called up that tweet. he never struck out three times in a game over that career. he was an all-star, won a batting title, almost 3,000 hits, over 2700 hits. as i said earlier, yes, this is part of the story, what happened off the first baseline. >> i was there at the game. >> i love the discussion around his life of the last 24 hours, it is mostly about what a great guy he was, and a great baseball player. >> and on the strikeout thing, never striking out more than twice in a game is an incredible stat. the other stat, never struck out more than 39 times a season. joey vot oh struck out 67 times first two months. buckner never struck out 39 times in a single season. i will say this, joe scarborough will remember this moment, the moment seered on memories of baseball fans and bill buckner
fans as much as the '86 world series was watching buckner try to climb the fence the day hank aaron hit that record breaking homerun. the day he hit it against al downing, bill buckner was in left field, went over that fence. that's the thing i remember as a dodgers fan, buckner trying to get that ball. >> april 8th, 1974. one of the few things we in atlanta had to cheer for in a decade following that atlanta braves. so mike, talk about your new book. you know how much my son jack loves your books. >> i have his copy. >> it has become such an integral part of our time together, him reading it, a chapter or two before he goes to sleep at night. it is magic for parents that
have kids my age. talk about what we're going to read about in "batting order." >> this was inspired by jose altuve standing next to aaron judge, in the american championship league series. i looked at that. those are the two most valuable players in the american league. one is 5'5", the other 6'7". i called the editor, i said i don't know what the book will be, but that picture is a book. this book is about the smallest kid on the team and biggest kid on the team. in addition, the smallest kid on the team is also trying to overcome a speech impediment which george springer, one of his heroes on houston astros does. the little guy and the big guy each help the other overcome obstacles because one is a lover of the game, the other is a big free swinging homerun hitter, they find an area in the middle and they both get better.
>> that's amazing. that reminds me how that scene in curb ended up. they all figured it out, right? >> parallels. >> my seven-year-old plays. talk more about that. like joe mentioned it, a lot of us raising kids that want to play baseball. we talk about the book. what lessons can they learn not just from the book but about the experiences, being on a team with kids that are different from them. >> i talk about this all the time. i was able to coach three of my boys in baseball. before every game i would tell the kids you got to appreciate what you're doing today because someday when you're my age, you would give a zillion dollars for one more friday night, saturday night. i want you to win, the other team wants to win, too, but man,
there are greater lessons for kids this time of year. and the other thing, anybody can get knocked down, requires no talent, no spirit, no imagination. it is how you get back up that shows the world. >> my son is in that age group, about to turn ten, my daughter is playing softball, the weekend games, the couple hours are the best hours of the week. to watch kids in team sports, i grew up with baseball, football, basketball, to watch what kids take away from team sport, rooting for each other, helping a kid out when he comes back to the bench crying, you can't put a price on team sports. >> it is funny. when i ask my son, talk to go alex, a producer, about one of his games last night, they remember the triumphs better than the disappointments. he was in left field, he came in to close the game, and those memories are like the foundation of childhood. but guess what, they're a foundation for parents that are
involved, too. >> it is amazing. jack will love his copy. i have it here, i am going to bring it. this is wonderful. mike lupica. how quickly does this get to the list? >> is that book lessening your rage? >> no. >> your rage level today is high. >> my rage is so high today. ask everyone actually. >> i call it passion. >> i call it rage. and honestly, the curb episode, it helps. you should watch if you ever feel you need -- susie is all of us inside. she is. >> can i just let me assure everybody, susie is you. >> yeah, she's all me. but she's a little bit of all of
us. >> and only you would take that as a compliment. >> i do. >> final thoughts. let's go around the table. let's be mindful and cheerful and radically accepting, starting with you, john. >> it has been great talking about bill buckner. just the reality is that it reminds you of the fact that the thing that becomes the best known thing about someone often is the least representative of what their life has been. this guy is a classic example of that. there's that, what a great catch. no actual babies were harmed filming this. >> spoiler alert, it was a prop baby. >> appreciation of the life in full. >> joe referenced this before, mika. anybody that can look at bill buckner showing up opening day in fenway, 2008, all this time
after he made that error, and watch the tears in his eyes, see that two minute ovation, that's the best of sports. those are the things that buckner ought to be remembered for. >> he handled that moment with class, even though he had to move to idaho for a time, he was so upset with some of the treatment he received from media and fan base. but joe was right, most red sox fans never blamed him. it was nice for him to have a moment in the sun to get the appreciation he deserved years later. >> word of the day is grace. it was grace from boston fans and grace over 30 years, more than 30 years by bill buckner. good lesson for everybody. >> joe. >> i would finish up confirming what we all have said, boston red sox fans, i will tell you that night that one of the most grim nights as a red sox fan of my life in '86, i was screaming a name at the television set,
and almost passed out. i was screaming it so loudly in game six and game seven, loudest i ever screamed. but that name was not bill buckner. >> mindful, mindful. that does it for us this morning. stephanie rule picks up coverage right now. hi there, i am stephanie rule. it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we have a lot to get to this morning. our team of extraordinary nbc reporters is here with new details on stories impacting your life today, starting with president trump, heading back home after his state visit to japan. the trip meant to secure his relationship with the u.s. ally, instead cementing his obsession with appeasing north korean dictator kim jong-un, contradicting