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tv   MSNBC Live with Kendis Gibson  MSNBC  June 1, 2019 11:00am-1:00pm PDT

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it's 2:00 eastern which means i'm out of time and i'll hand it over to kendis gibson. >> have a great day. i'm kendis gibson on what is turning out to be a very busy saturday. nearly 24 hours after a gunman cut short the lives of 12 people, the devastating heart break on full display. >> there was a lady on the stairs, unconscious and blood on her feet and the stairway and we didn't know what happened. >> we barricaded in the office. >> she text me and she's like, he's on my floor. the shooter is on my floor. >> he said get out of the building. you'll be shot. >> i don't know what kind of person would do something like that. >> this is the most devastating
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day in the history of virginia beach. >> herbert bert snelling, who was a contractor trying to fill a permit and he's a resident of virginia beach. >> we want you to know who they were so when the days and weeks to come, you will learn what they meant to all of us. >> some tough moments within the last 24 hours for folks there in virginia beach. we are going to begin with the breaking news out of that area. city known for the big beaches and numerous universities and historic sites is making history, the sort of history no community wants to be a part of. officials have now identified the 12 people whose lives were cut short by that senseless act of violence. at a government building on friday. all but one of the victims employed by the city. right now at least three victims who were injured remain in the hospital in serious condition.
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the gunman also a city employee is dead following a lengthy shootout with police. his name only spoken once. instead putting the focus on the innocent victims who are gone and in the next hour, another press conference is scheduled to take place. we start now with msnbc david gura on the ground right there in virginia beach. david, how is the city trying to cope with this massacre? >> reporter: they're trying, as you say, fewer than 24 hours after this tragedy happened. there have been a number of vigils taken place already here in virginia beach. there was one this morning at a movie theater that the governor of the commonwealth of virginia ralph northam attended and one this evening at old dominion in norfolk. what i want to stress is this is a large city. this is the largest city in the commonwealth. larger than the capitol richmond. but it is a very close-knit community as i keep hearing as i talk to people who live here and where i'm standing now in this municipal complex is a close community within a close community. i think it is a good analogy to
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say this is like a college campus with government buildings on it and the attack took place in the building right behind me. this is something that came up during the course of the press conference that took place this morning. the city manager and the chief of police talking about how long the folks who were killed had worked for the city of virginia beach. there was one man killed who had worked here for 41 years. so these were familiar faces and people familiar with them and i had an opportunity to talk to jim wood, the vice mayor after that press conference took place. i asked how he begins to think about moving forward from what happened here on friday afternoon. let's take a listen. >> it has been very difficult for all of us. we have -- we knew a lot of these people and i've been on the council 17 years so i knew a number of the people and i know some of the people in the hospital as well. it is very tough on us. it is a long-term healing process and not something that will be corrected or cured overnight. the city is going to go through
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a grieving process. >> reporter: right now this community mourning what happened here yesterday afternoon. as i said, more vigils will take place tonight. a lot of conversation happening about the openness of that building. this public works building where the shooting took place. the city manager stressing during the course of the press conference, it was a place where folks in the community needed to go to file forms and get paperwork done and therein lies the tension they are wrestling with in the community in the coming days. >> and people are focusing on the opening of the christma-- k. there are to guardrails and plenty of the buildings part of the complex. and in the meantime the president is reacting, finally, i believe it took 17 hours, what is he saying? >> yeah, he issued a tweet this morning, sent out a tweet on his way to play golf in sterling, virginia. i'll read from what the president said. we'll trooet it like a state from the president. spock to ralph northam last
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night and the mayor and vice mayor of virginia beach to offer condolences to the great community. and the federal government is there and will be for whatever they may need. god bless the families and all. the president tweeting that this morning and something that we heard in that first news conference this morning is how the relationship between the local and state and federal law enforcement is going. quantityic, virginia, about 140 miles from where i'm standing and a big site for fbi agents and 40 are here working with this investigation and with this forensic investigation. there are agents from the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms as well. those are the president's comments. we've heard from other politicians. nancy pelosi issuing a statement of her own calling for action legislation on gun control and this is something that has come up during the course of the big meeting out in california, a lot of democratic candidates addressing what happened here in virginia beach at that meeting in san francisco as well. >> and of course noticeably absent from the president's statement on twitter, no call
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for action whatsoever. david gura there in virginia beach. thanks to you. we'll look forward to your special later on this evening at 6:00 p.m. now officials are calling the mass shooting at virginia beach the darkest hour for that city as david mentioned today. virginia beach governor ralph northam spoke about what he said needs to be done. >> actions speak much louder than words and so i will make decisions in the upcoming days, but we need to look at our laws. are they safe? do they keep people protected in the commonwealth of virginia? we have introduced legislation each year, fred rica, for the last few years and it has been defeated but things like this continue to happen. we can't be desensitized to the tragedy and it is time to take action. and that is the leader as -- the leader of virginia and the governor, i plan to do that. >> joining me now is aaron rouse, a virginia beach council member and a student at virginia
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tech university when 33 people died in the mass school shooting in 2007. aaron, thank you for being here with us. >> thank you for having me. >> sadly it is under these circumstances. i did want you -- watch you at the press conference yesterday when they first mentioned all that took place. you made a point of speaking up. why did you feel the need to do so? >> you know, at this terrible time, i have been through that massacre at virginia tech and that will forever be a part of us. not only there at virginia tech but here in virginia. and at a time like that, i felt helpless as a college kid but here in the city that i grew up in, went to high school in, where our first responders and our community helped me be who i am today, it is time to step up. no longer can we remain silent when the tragedies happen. our strengths is in our numbers,
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in our community. and we have a special community here and i just want to -- you know, everyone to know that this moment won't define us. our response to this moment will define us. and how we respond to this is by coming together. and letting everyone know virginia beach is a safe community. it is a great community. we have a lot of pride, things to be prideful of and we just want to let the nation and world know we'll stand tall. so stand with us. >> it is a safe community. it is a strong community indeed. and i have visited it on many times when i lived in washington, d.c. and i do know it is a large city. making up several different communities. but still you get a sense that everybody there is part of a family. does this hurt as if you lost a family member? >> well, we did lose family members. our focus is with the victim's family and we are a close-knit community here. we tend to do a lot of great things together.
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but, again, i'm so proud to be from virginia beach. i'm proud of our first responders in the way they reacted to the -- through this terrible ordeal. but i also know the strength that lies within our community and i know growing up here, i know we have deep inside of us and now is a time for all of us to show that and show what we have. and the strength is in our neighbors. >> i do want to ask you, because as i mentioned at the top, you were there in 2007 in virginia tech when that massacre took place. when you found out about this, what was your initial reaction? not again? >> well, not again. my initial reaction was i was in disbelief this could happen again. but then, like i said earlier, it went from a helpless college kid to now a councilman of the largest city in the state of virginia and i want to do something. i want to make sure that -- >> so what are you going to do? >> we have those -- well, we'll
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have the tough conversations and talk about the laws we need to implement and we need to have those conversations. but before we get to that point, before we get to those tough conversations, we have to make sure the ground is fertile to hear one another. we have to see the humanity in each other. we have to understand the pride and dignity that should -- that our neighbors have. and so before we have those tough conversations, we got to make sure we see that. so a lot could be had out of those conversations. so when we do sit down at the table, we could hear one another and we can plant those seeds to where fruits of change could happen out of that. >> and know you're working closely with the police department and many of the detectives there as well as city and state officials. and you're well familiar with building number two, or the hall for that matter is just some hundreds of yards down the street from there. as this investigation has gone on, and they describe this fire fight, are you learning anything
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more about what took place inside that building? also, was it possible that video cameras may have captured this horrible massacre? what are you learning? >> well, our chief surveillance has done a great job of updating and keeping the public informed and i'm sure that more information will come out soon in the next hour. but what i've learned and what i saw and understand and those -- and in our finest hours is the brave men and women who didn't give second thought and charged into the building, who confronted this gunman and saved many lives and in the aftermath what i see now is communities coming together. we have hundreds of vigils that happening all over the city today. there is an outpour of help from our local and sister cities here in hampton roads and i'm seeing the strength of virginia beach and that is us coming together. >> and your strength as well. i do know that you served in the nfl or you played in the nfl. you're a tough guy. but within the last 24 hours, 22
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hours, did you find yourself breaking down after all of this? >> of course, how could you not. these are the workers here and the citizens that was perished in this terrible ordeal, these are our family members. these are people we work very closely with every single day. we cross paths with each other every single day. this is a tight-knit community. so we have our moments but in those times and moments, we need those prayers and thoughts. i know that people are tired of saying prayers and thoughts, but we always need prayers and thoughts. we must never forget god, we must always keep god at the f e forefront and to hear one another. >> it sounds like prayers and thoughts and actions are needed. thank you, aaron, for your time. still ahead, more reports from virginia beach. plus a blue rush to the golden state. but first the faces of tragedy.
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the 12 people killed in the deadly virginia beach massacre. >> laquita brown who works in public works for over 4 and a half years. and is a right-of-way agent. and she is a resident of chesapeake, virginia. tara welsh gallagher, who works in public works for over six years and serves as an engineer and is a resident of virginia beach. mary louise gayle, who has worked in public works for over 24 years and served as a right-of-way agent and is a resident of virginia beach. alexander mikhail gusef, who was worked for over nine years in public works and is a
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right-of-way agent and is a resident of virginia beach. katherine nixon who served in public utilities for over ten years as an engineer and as a resident of virginia beach. richard h. nettleton, rich works in public utilities for over 28 years, served as an engineer, served with me as a lieutenant and journey in the 130th engineer brigade and a resident of norfolk. christopher kelly rapp, who served in public works for just 11 months. as an engineer and as a citizen of palatine. ryan keith cox, who served in public utilities for over 12 1/2 years. and is an account clerk and a
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resident of virginia beach. joshua a. hardy, who served in public utilities for four and a half years as an engineering technician and as a resident of virginia beach. michelle missy langer, who served in public utilities for 12 years as an administrative assistant and as a resident of virginia beach. robert bobby williams, who served in public utilities for over 41 years as a special projects coordinator and as a resident of chesapeake. herbert bert snelling, who was a contractor trying to fill a permit and he's a resident of virginia beach. most of us don't know how much data we use.
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a lot of the 2020 hopefuls are sounding like the momma's and poppa's, california dreaming. nearly half of the candidates are gung-ho in the golden state hoping to win the hearts and minds of the voters there. the state's democratic convention has gathered the largest contenders with one notable exception. vice president joe biden. we have team coverage from san francisco with political editor beth fouhy and shaquille brewster. but we begin with beth. the house speaker moments ago spoke moments ago with a huge reaction from the crowd. what was the main message there? >> reporter: yeah, that was the drama of the morning, kendis. we'll get underway shortly with the presidential contenders, and kamala harris will speak in a few minutes. but the drama was with speaker
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pelosi. she came here -- with all sorts of requests from so many different democrats that she would get impeachment proceedings underway in washington against president trump and she's resisted that and she doesn't believe it is productive and harmful to democrats going forward. but in her speech to this crowd of very left-leaning democratic delegates when she talked about the house efforts to investigate the president and brought up mueller report, things got heated. i'll toss to a sound bite and see what happened. >> the president's campaign welcomed russian interference in the election and the report lays out 11 instances of possible obstruction of justice by the president of the united states. as -- i told you this is like coming home for me.
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[ crowd chanting ] >> of course that is a reference to the fact that she is getting asked everywhere she goes about impeachment and when she could start impeachment proceedings. that was totally the home coming crowd here in san francisco. people were shouting, people were saying impeachment, i'm peach and shouting at speaker and imploring her to get the process going and she smiled and pressed forward and said the house will continue to investigate and named the committee chairman doing that work but did not bow to that request for impeachment, kendis. >> it is going to be tough for her to stave off all of the calls, beth. in the meantime, you wrote about the importance of this weekend for candidates. why is california so crucial? >> well, california is by far the most populous state and the bulwark of anti-trump resistance so they are in flewen shall and listening to candidates that they want to be the next president or the candidate up against president trump. and they are the most electable. the other thing they're going to
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try to do is differentiate themselves from each other. because they're all kind of on a continuum of issues that are not all that different so they need to find a way to stand out in a way that appeals to this crowd of very, very partisan democrats and left-leaning democrats, i might say. so we'll hear from kamala harris and hear tomorrow from bernie sanders who has been very popular in california and then we have a whole host of other democrats here, amy klobuchar and beto o'rourke and pete buttigieg who will try to squeeze in and get the message out and have a great sound bite or a memorable phrase or promise that delegates here will take away, kendis. >> and in the meantime lets a bring in road warrior sahaquill brewster where candidates are expected to speak this afternoon. what is the big idea over there. >> there will be a lot of big ideas, kendis. eight presidential candidates will take the stage behind me and they're each tasked with
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presenting one idea to change the party and country. and what we expect to here, if you are paying attention to the presidential election, you notice there are no shortage of big ideas going around. so we may hear from senator harris, her middle class tax cut or bernie sanders might talk about medicare for all. i'm tolding kirsten gillibrand will talk about her national leave family plan and she's focused on issues. this morning she released the national lgbtq rights policy proposal and we'll pull it up there and she's focused on health care, keeping families together and focused on -- on lgbt protections and making sure that that community is safe. she'll have a national ban of conversion therapy. this is just an example of democrats wanting and voters wanted to not only defeat trump at the ballot box but know what the next step is after his defeat. kendis.
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>> and kirsten gillibrand announcing that policy on the first day of pride month. thanks to beth fouhy and shaquille brewster there in san francisco. and i do want to bring in the panel. daniela gibbs ledger and strategy for the center for american progress and matt mcowy acfrom the potomac strategy group. welcome to both of you. matt i want to start with you. and the california primary moved up to super tuesday but the ballots mailed out on february 2nd and if that is familiar, that is the same day as the iowa caucus. so how does the states do spot on the primary calendar impact the strategy at this point for the candidates? >> if you remember, kendis, california traditional been at the end of the primary calendar and they moved up and i don't know if that was to try to help kamala harris or to increase influence in the democratic primary or both. but, look, the fact that you
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have 14 presidential candidates attending this convention, i think it is a sign of how important it is. it does raise the question why the former vice president joe biden is not there. he may not feel that he wants to be in front of a large crowd right now or feel he has the sound bites to motivate that kind of audience. i guess he's in ohio at another event. so we'll see. california is going to be very, very important for the democratic side. you could imagine a scenario where if kamala harris doesn't win california on super tuesday that could aend her campaign or a rocket ship that gives her the lion share of the delegates coming up to put her in first or second place. >> and kamala harris is making a play for california and texas where you are in the meantime. daniela, it is striking that joe biden wouldn't go there. yes, there are -- at least two californians who are running for the primary against him. but why would he not show up there to this big convention? >> reporter: well, i don't know the answer to that question but i -- if i had to guess, i think
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that vice president biden is in a different position than the rest of the candidates because of his name recognition, because he came off of eight years as serving as barack obama's vice president, that perhaps he feels that he doesn't have to engage in all of these early forums that other candidates do. so i don't think that he's necessarily afraid of showing up, but i think he may be riding on his coat tails hail bit and that is a strategy that carries risk and at some point he'll have to engage at the same level the other candidates do but it is still very early in the process. >> but you could clearly tell, matt, by listening to the crowds and the enthusiasm, they are fired up. as you look at that audience right there and you being a conservative, do you think that this is a worrisome time for the republicans going into 2020? >> well, i wouldn't take that away. i have been a delegate to a state party convention.
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your delegates are more ideological than the average voter. that is not a natural constituency for somebody like joe biden. at conventions you are fired up and being fed red meat by the speakers and trying to fire up and get a big surprise and that is not a big surprise and the primary message is not a general election message and so i understand why the vice president is staying away. we'll see whether anyone else has a big moment this weekend that can catapult them. >> and daniela, you heard the reaction that nancy pelosi got there when she sort of hinted about staving off impeachment. how long could she possibly keep that -- away from many of the left-leaning democrats? >> you know, i think that remains to be seen. i think as long as lts house continues and ratchets up the investigations and calling people to appear before congress like subpoenaing mueller, getting him there, having open
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hearings, i think people will be at least somewhat satisfied that the house is acting. but as long as people see no action it is going to become more difficult for her to keep making that case and i will say i do not envy her position. it is a tough one to be in. >> and what would be the tough message that you would say, matt, coming out of that convention, at least as somebody on the other end of the aisle? >> well -- >> what would make you say they have a winning message. >> that is a good question. i think that the question would be can you find a message that appeals to independents in the middle and also fires up the democratic base and that is a difficult challenge. if i could chime in on impeachment for a second. there are -- they did flip 40 districts in red or purple districts last election. you have 31 democratic incumbents in seats that trump won in 2016. pelosi focus on those people and the challenge she faces is the longer she waits and the closer
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to the 2020 election and the more affected those members are so she's under great pressure to begin and end this process so people can focus on the general election next year. >> we'll leave it there. our thanks to daniela and matt. and i should mention that joe biden's campaign has mentioned that he plans to be in columbus, ohio, tonight, to deliver an address at the hrc to celebrate pride month. thanks, guys. after the break, we go back out to virginia beach for an update on the three people still fighting for their lives after suffering injuries during the shooting rampage. shooting rampage let's be honest. it's kind of unfair that safe drivers have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! ah! that was a stunt driver. that's why esurance has this drivesense® app. the safer you drive, the more you save. don't worry, i'm not using my phone and talking to a camera while driving... i'm being towed. by the way, i'm actually a safe driver. i'm just pretending to be a not safe driver. cool. bye dennis quaid!
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we return to the stop story and that horrible massacre of innocent people in virginia beach. we are expecting an update within the hour from the authorities there but we do know this right now. yesterday's shooting with 12 victims is the deadliest in the state since the massacre of nearly three dozen people on the campus of virginia tech in 2007. and there are several people who are right now fighting to stay alive at this hour. they're inside of the virginia beach general hospital and that is where we find kathy park. and i do believe they gave an update moments ago. what is the latest? >> reporter: good afternoon, kendis. that is right. we were able to hear from the physicians who are now caring for the patients. but i want to backtrack a little bit. they said that last night in total five victims arrived here at the hospital, unfortunately one died on arrival and another
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patient died shortly after that. so there are currently three victims who are under the care of physicians. two of them are now listed in critical condition and have been going in and out of the operating room. another individual is listed in fair condition. and hopefully we heard according to the doctor may make a full recovery. so crossing our fingers for that individual. and because of hippa regulations, we're not able to share too much about the conditions. but we did ask them, how do they prepare for a situation like this and unfortunately, kendis, this is something that hospitals have to get ready for to respond to gun violence and mass shootings like this. so here are a response from one of the doctors who was here last night and was very involved with making sure they were able to save lives. >> this is what we train for. this is why we chose to go into
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these professions. but when it is actually happening and the scale that it is happening, it becomes surreal. and you have to just focus, compartmentalize and attend to what is going on at that moment. and it is why i do what i do. >> reporter: and you heard there from dr. janelle thomas. she said she's been at the hospital for 20 years, there was another physician right next to her, dr. martin ogrady and he's been here for 30 years. so collectively five decades of experience. and still this event last night has shaken them and this entire community as well. we also want to point out there is another patient who is in critical condition at the sister hospital in norfolk. kendis, back to you. >> they do practice for this but it still shakes them to the core. one of the people injured we should point out is a police officer. we're told his bulletproof vest
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saved him. kathy park in virginia beach for us on the latest there. still ahead, rejected. the justice department defied a judge order refusing to turn over conversations of michael flynn with the russian ambassador. ambassador
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is the justice department taking part of a blatant cover-up. there are many people asking that question after trump's justice department defied a court order to turn over
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transcripts of conversations michael flynn had with the russian ambassador. instead they released a voice mail transcript that showed the trump legal team trying to stop flynn from cooperating with mueller. in it trump's former lawyer john dowd said in part, if on the other hand there is information that implicates the president, then we've got a national security issue. then, you know, we need some kind of a heads up. remember what we've always said about the president and his feelings towards flynn and that still remains. sam stein from the daily beast calling this a crisis point. and then there is this. >> we accepted the special counsel's legal framework for purposes of our analysis. and evaluated the evidence as presented by the special counsel andn reaching our conclusions. >> we didn't agree with the legal analysis, a lot of the
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legal analysis in the report. did not reflect the views of the department or the views of a particular lawyer or lawyers. so we applied what we thought was the right law. >> maybe it was something about that whole fireside chat setting that got the attorney general to change his tune. he does appear to be contradicting himself on the mueller report. back in april he accepted the special counsel legal framework on obstruction and now barr admits his justice department decided to apply what they say is the right law. so what gives? to more let's bring in barbara mcquade and from "the new york times" charlie savage. both are msnbc contributors. i want to start with you, barbara, what do you make of the justice department rejecting the judge's order in flynn's case. many of your colleagues are calling it -- this is the epitome of the constitutional crisis. >> i don't know. when a judge orders you to produce something and the expectation is you will produce it.
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if you don't want to, then the avenue for relief is to appeal the decision or ask the court to reconsider. in this instance they didn't do that. they just didn't turn it over and said you don't need that any way because it is not relevant to the issues before the court in terms of sentencing. i don't think the judge is going to be satisfied with that. now i don't know that this is simply the justice department run amok. there could be intelligence equities that make them not want to turn that over. i don't know that they've ever formally admitted that they were recording conversations of the russian ambassador. i don't know that they've confirmed the existence of those recordings and so to produce them would share with our foreign adversaries that we're routinely interrepresenting the conversations -- >> they had two weeks. why wait until a friday night dump to make that case? >> and we don't know all of the things may have been done behind the scenes. it may be they had some communications with the court offline, maybe a conference or may have some ex parte filing or
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a filing under seal. although the better practice would be to note that is on the record. there is some filing under seal and some in-chambers conference and the fact it is not on the record does suggest it probably did not happen. >> and charlie, i want to get your take on trump contradicting everything mueller said in his statement this week. here is a listen. >> he said essentially you're innocent. i'm innocent of all charges. >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> russia did not help me get elected. you know who got me elected? you know who got me elected? i got me elected. russia didn't help me at all. >> russian intelligence officers launched a political attack on our system. the releases were designed and timed to interfere with our election and to damage a
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presidential candidate. >> quite a mash up. the white house appears to be misleading the public on the obstruction investigation and in your own "new york times" piece, charlie, you said mueller's statement is insufficient. what questions still need to be answered there? >> well, robert mueller is leaving a trail of bread crumbs to a conclusion but in a somewhat maddeningly coy way he's refusing to come out and say directly what he means. he thinks that he can't for reasons that a lot of people who either like trump or don't like trump all agree don't add up. but in the end of the day, he's just unwilling to say that he thinks that trump obstructed justice three or four times even though that is what the analysis in his own report clearly indicates, that all three criteria for that are met by three or four different actions. but he doesn't -- won't say that. he'll say, well, we have to -- we have to stop short of saying that. it seems to be that he wants
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prosecutors in the future to make that decision of whether to say that out loud, once trump is no longer in office and so can be indicted and get a trial. but he won't say that either, that is his rational. so the upshot is that he left this vacuum and his -- president trump and his supporters have seized that opening to put their own spin or counter interpretation on this and meaning trump is exonerated and innocent and he just didn't find the evidence and therefore trump is vindicated and that is the mess we're in. >> and what is your thinking on why mueller didn't go farther beyond his report. >> well mueller is a boy scout straight shooter and his own image i will say what i can say in my report and i won't go beyond that report from the dais and now he doesn't want to testify before congress. that may not be the final say, though. of course because congress has the authority to subpoena people who are unwilling to appear before it voluntarily.
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although i imagine his testimony would look like i don't want to go beyond the report arn-- and refer you to my report and that might not be satisfied. >> i tried that many years in school during book reports and it didn't fly at all. i ended up failing. thank you to barbara mcquade and charlie savage. we're live in virginia beach where city leaders and police are preparing to give an update on the yesterday's municipal building shooting. we'll bring it to you live. you see the cameras there setting up. we'll have it. ras there setting up we'll have it. this is the ocean. just listen. (vo) there's so much we want to show her. we needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. (avo) subaru outback. ninety eight percent are still on the road after 10 years. come on mom, let's go!
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welcome back, everyone, we continue to watch this image right there. in virginia beach the press conference scheduled to begin at the top of the hour. new details are emerging from last night's horrific shooting. local law enforcement has learned the suspected shooter was an employee of the city who worked as an engineer with the public utilities department for 15 years. police also found additional weapons owned by the suspect upon searching his home. the suspect died at the scene after a large shootout. here with me now to discuss all of the aspects of this ongoing investigation are msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi
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and terrorism analyst malcolm nance. thank you for being here. frank, let me start with you. and there is the press conference in the small box scheduled for the top of the hour. what kind of questions do you hope will be answered? >> well, i don't know what law enforcement will be able to share. but i'm fascinated by the background here. i need to hear more about the warning signs and indicators that may have existed that perhaps even his co-workers or managers might have noted because people don't just snap. if we could learn the planning stages, what got him to the flash point and was there a trigger in terms of a job action, a life stressor that set him off as we hear the names and the job roles of the victims, we see that he clearly targeted his unit, his department. there was some anger there and there was some issue going on with that job place and i would like to learn more about that. >> and malcolm, they describe a long-term gun fight. a large gun fight for that matter. give me a sense of what sort of
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tactics took place as that played out? >> well, you know when i went through s.w.a.t. school the first thing they teach is to get men on the scene and into the area and then flood the zone with whatever resources you have at the time. if it is one officer and an active shooter situation you have to confront that gunman in order to break the assault that he's carrying out and then let him concentrate on law enforcement. if you have four officers in there and they're exchanging fire, that is precisely what they want to do. they want to keep him pinned down until more resources come on the scene and then if you can neutralize him as fast as possible. but while that is going on, innocent civilians are not being shot. >> well that is a fearful part. that is indeed what happened in santa barbara at the nightclub shooting there. it is like a dangerous scenario, malcolm. on several floors and you hear
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gunshots -- being heard. is it your big fear that maybe some of these victims may have been part of friendly fire? >> you know, generally you can't consider that right away. i mean, when you have somebody -- you have a shooter on the third deck or third floor, you're going to try to make your way up there as quickly as possible. there may be wounded there in front of you, who you may have to move past until you can get up there and corner him and neutralize him. but for the most part, law enforcement are relatively good about the backstops of the targets. if they see civilians back there, they're not going to engage. the shooter on the other hand is going to be indiscriminately firing but again the job is for law enforcement and to pin this man down so that he's just not casually walking around shooting people. and so for that matter, i think that the officers did their job, as you see one man engaged him directly. and properly which means he got
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shot in the plate direct in the center of mass on his chest as opposed to shooting another fashion where the bullet could have gone under or through his chest. >> and they do describe a horrible scene. i do want to get us to pop up the map of this complex, frank. because it is a massive, massive complex. take a look as you can see, the courthouse is nearby. building number two is right there in the heart and you see where the police department is, the officers running over from that area right there. i covered the navy yard shootings in d.c. back in 2013 and it was somebody who walked on to the campus with an i.d. similar thing here. what could be done with this sort of situation, frank, to prevent it from happening again, where you have the employees with i.d. and could just walk into the buildings with these sort of weapons? >> well, this is the dilemma when you're talking about workplace violence and insiders
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creating the threat because it is -- it is one thing to defend against outsiders and people who shouldn't be there and you could screen them and have security gates and magnetometers but now we have to ask do we protect against our coworkers and people with a right to be there and when there are city buildings and citizens need to come and go and get various permits and l e lice -- licenses and such and do you close down the government and what will the public accept these stricture and constraint on accessing public government building. america is -- is wrestling with this question and you'll hear more security proposed but we're not dealing with the core issues which is how to people get to this place where they act out in the first place. what should employers and coworkers do to deal with concerns. that is an area now that i think we need to discuss even more, is what are we seeing in the
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cubicle next to us, does an employer have a way of reporting concerns and dealing with them adequately. >> so many things of concern. we'll have to leave it there because we're watching that press conference which is scheduled to begin at the top of the hour. thanks to you. well still ahead, as i mentioned. at any hour this press conference and that scene will give us a very latest and the update on the massacre that took place at a government building in the city of virginia beach. the press getting set up. we hope to hear from the mayor as well as the police chief soon. well as the police chief soon it's tough to quit smoking
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good afternoon, i'm kendis gibson at msnbc world headquarters in new york. we gib this hour with the breaking news. any moment now the officials will hold a press after the deadly shooting in virginia beach. watching that podium, we expect that news conference to happen any moment there. these are the victims. they're now being remembered this afternoon by authorities another community in america mourns. earlier today officials identify the gunman is a city employee and saying his name only once and we'll not say it at all. the motive behind the attack is uncertain. joining me now msnbc david gura, live in virginia beach as well as pete williams, nbc justice constituent and jim cavanaugh msnbc contributor, welcome to
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you. and david, i want to start with you. you've been there just hours after the shooting stopped. what has this community been like since then? i imagine they're still in shock? >> absolutely. here fewer than 24 hours after this happened, reckoning with what happening and a number of vigils have taken place. so far a large vigil in virginia beach this morning and the governor was there for that. the overarching message here is the shooter's name was mentioned once during the press conference and the police chief said he won't say it again either and would refer to him as the suspect. and there is focus on looking forward and not defining the community based on what happened here yesterday at 4:00 in the afternoon. at that press conference as you just did, the names of those killed yesterday were read out and the police chief and the city manager both said over the course of the next few days, those in the community who didn't know those individuals are going to get to know them and learn about the legacy they
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leave behind in in -- in this community. both of the gentleman, the city manager and chief of police suggesting that the investigation will continue and the forensic investigation is underway with the help of local, state and federal law enforcement. so all of that is happening, again, kendis, while this community continues to mourn. >> and the police chief said it is a massive investigation taking place on several floors. happy to have pete williams with here on saturday. what are we learning now of the weapons that were used in this attack? >> well the police chief has said that the predominant weapon was a very commonly available weapon, a .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun and that simply means it fires each time the trigger is pulled. but this is -- this is not a big assault weapon as we sometimes see in these shootings. however, one of the things that undoubtedly contributed to the lethal force is the gunman had
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high-capacity magazines or ammunition clips, the devices that slide into the grip of the weapon and carry the rounds that are fired and these high-capacity magazine hold many more rounds than normal and allow someone to keep firing without having to reload as often. and that is undoubtedly a contribution and the police chief said they found several empty magazines indicating that just how many rounds were fired here. so that is one issue. the second issue is the gun was fitted with what the police chief called a suppressor which is more commonly known as a silencer and that would muffle the sound of the firearm and also somewhat conceal the muzzle flash. and this apparently had some contribution here because many of the people inside of the building said they thought that the gunfire was coming from further away. and this is to some extent rekindling the debate about suppressors and whether they should be further regulated or
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whether the regulations on them should be lifted. some gun control groups say that silencers not only make it confusing for victims but also for police who respond to shootings to make it harder for them to find where the gunman is firing from. but the police do say they were able to figure out that it was on the second floor and begin to engage the shooter and that started this protracted gun battle. they also say he had some other weapons at home and they found a rifle on the scene. but it is not clear whether the rifle played any role in this. he did apparently buy these firearms just within the past several weeks. and that may indicate that he had been planning this for the past several weeks. >> and it would appear based on some of the tactics that he may have had training. pete, i do want to have you pick up on a couple ever -- a couple of things. so those magazines and the muzzle are legal. >> the magazines are legal. there are restrictions in some states but not virginia. the suppressor as jim cavanaugh
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could explain better than i can, they are legal provided you have registered them. you have to go to the gun dealer and fill out a form and show some i.d. and give fingerprints and then it goes to jim's former employer, the atf and if they give you permission, then you can have the suppressor. a million and a half people have done it in america. that is how many suppressors are right now registered in the u.s. >> and jim, i want you to pick up on that. because as we look at the campus there, yes, some 30 buildings but building number two is not that far from the police department. so no doubt police officers were able to make it there to that scene fairly quick. do you imagine because he had a silencer, so to speak, on his weapon is why it may have been a prolonged gun battle? >> well, i've been in a couple of prolonged gun battles and i don't think -- that is an advantage during the gun battle with the police but first off, kendis, the silencer gave him
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the advantage to kill in the parking lot and move into the building without anybody hearing it or stopping him. if he fired a .45-caliber weapon once or multiple times in the parking lot, any police officer would have heard it. they are very loud. the silencer gave him an advantage to get in. and also gave him advantage once in to be able to move across the floors because as pete described, victims are saying we heard something, we thought it was shots but we thought it was distant shots. so that gave them a distinct advantage, the silencers and the extra capacity magazines they could be as many as 30 and they come up to 100. but more likely in this case, you see extended magazines of 20 or 30 rounds. >> jim, i'm going to interrupt because i do believe the press conference is underway. if we could pop it up on the big box so i could see who is there. i believe you the govern north ram and the city manager off to the right. we'll listen in.
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as soon as the governor starts his speech here. and we do expect to hear as well from the police chief who has been a long-time police chief at virginia beach. for about ten years or so. and once we hear from them, we expect them to take some questions as well. they've been very good at updating us. sadly, these have been some very, very sad updates. as we watch these pictures, i should note and we'll talk to the crew and everything else about this, the white house has mentioned within the last hour hour they have lowered the flags there at the white house at half-staff and you see the image there and we're going to listen into the governor of virginia. >> good afternoon. and thank you for being here and doing the work you're doing and letting the people across virginia and this country know of the efforts as we deal with this horrific tragedy. i would like to thank all of the men and women who had stepped forward and been part of this effort as we move forward in healing virginia.
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they are no doubt dedicated, professional and compassionate and for that i say thank you, to mayor dyer who leads the city to our city manager dave hanson or chief of police cervera, thank you for your leadership as well as the other elected officials during a very, very difficult time here in virginia beach. we continue to focus on these families, on the victims as we said yesterday, these were 12 individuals who came to work in the city of virginia beach thinking they would go home in the evening and they didn't return and have left a tremendous void in their families and in our community. i have had the opportunity along with some other elected officials to visit our local hospitals. i'm a doctor. i served in desert storm. i have been in situations such
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as this. and it was important to me to go to our hospitals and thank the doctors, the nurses and the staff and i can let you know, i also had the opportunity to speak with some of the families. they send their thanks for the heroic deeds that were performed yesterday and i want to assure you they are all being well cared for in our local hospitals. i want to also thank the outpouring of support and love that has come not only from hampton roads in veerj -- in virginia but across the country and it is so important to continue in the healing process so i ask all of you that are viewing this today to continue to please lift up virginia beach, continue to lift up these victims and their families as we continue this healing process which will go on not for days, but months and years. so thank you. and i will turn this over to our
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mayor of virginia beach, mayor bobby dyer. mayor. >> thank you, governor. it has been about 23 hours since this horror was imposed upon the city of virginia beach. and let me just say this, we'll not be defined by this horror. we will go forward, we are a city of resiliency and resolve. the true character of our city is going to rest with our public, our citizens and our neighbors that we share borders with. the governor just mentioned there was an outpouring of love and empathy and willingness to help. there is no doubt question or reservation. let me just say this, and i will be brief, there is one thing that is most evident that has come about, we in virginia beach are a city of heroes.
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we have heroes with our military, we have many members of our public that help and save lives. but most of all, let me commend the officers, the people that ran into a building with an active shooter shooti shooting .45-caliber bullets and saved many people. without question or reservation, virginia beach is a city of heroes. and the strength of virginia beach are the people of virginia beach. and there is no doubt that going forward that we will detype -- define ourself as a city with love and compassion for those neighbors that we lost. and their families. and we're not going to just do this over the next couple of weeks. this is going to be a long-term thing. this is virginia beach. thank you. and at this point i would like
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to bring up chief cervera. >> from the police end, we do not have a lot of additional information to give at this time other than fbi has -- federal bureau of investigation has taken over the evidence recovery portion of this. the ert responded and come as a group of 40 individuals assisting the city of virginia beach. it is time consuming, meticulous process and it is not what you see on tv, it is not what you see in the movies. it is a time consuming process and they have taken that assignment on magnificently and doing an absolute fantastic job inside of the building. our evidence -- forensic evidence inside of the building will be there for quite sometime. and we have that to give out and
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the other thing is as the manager said earlier, we'll have members of the virginia beach police honor guard and fire department honor guard teams assigned to the families. we want too make sure they have liason for everything they need and we want the family members and the friends to know that we are behind them 100%, that this isn't something that will happen and then suddenly we're just going to go back to business. but at this time i would like to call the regional special agent in charge of the atf to come forward and give us a few words on where we are with the weapons recovered and the evidence that they are attempting to obtain from the weapons. sir. >> thank you, chief. good afternoon, on behalf of the men and women of atf our thoughts and prayers with are the families. and our partners with the fbi we identified two wpz used in the
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shooting yesterday. both weapons are .45-caliber pistols. one was purchased in 2016, one was purchased in 2018, and both pistols were purchased by the shooter and all indications are they were purchased legally. in addition, atf agents assisted local police with the search warrant at the shooter's residence. two other firearms were recovered from that location. one of the two has been identified as -- of the one that has been identified and also was legally purchased by the shooter. at this time we're working with our law enforcement partners to look at the ballistics from the weapons, discharge and also our ballistic network to see if they correspond with any other shootings. that is all i have. thank you. >> thank you, sir. the final bit of information i could give at this time is there have been some questions concerning a timeline, how long did the shootout occur and what was the time that the officers first responded and arrived on
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scene, we'll put that together but we do want to interview the officers to get some specifics. the computer dispatch timeline is one piece of information but we're interviewing the officers to get the rest of that information. and again, i want you to understand that in a situation such as this, these officers need a little bit of time to depress before we begin to ask them specific requests about this horrific crime scene and thissen tense fire fight shootout with the suspect. so i'll have more information on that tomorrow. julie. >> thank you. >> i'm julie hill, the communications director for the city. i've been here for four years. and in that four years, i can tell you that this is an incident that speaks to really the heart and soul of this city that i've come to call home. but make no mistake, we are a heart broken city. because we have lost 12 people
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who did nothing more than come to work yesterday. and expect to go home and they were not able. we're just about a day into this event and so we've got a lot of plans to make. we have 12 funerals to help these -- the families plan. and that is the work that we're about to get underway starting today. we're meeting with the families and focusing on the steps for memorials and this community has already started to step up in that regard as well. so in addition to a memorial service that the city is planning for thursday evening, that everyone is invited to attend at rock creek church, we'll have more information on that. we're hear being other vigils being planned for the community, some started today, they'll be taking place over the course of the week. so if anybody does have incidents and events and vigils they would like us to include in a listing, you could email those to us at news at and this
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is a remembrance ceremony for the 12 victims who lost their lives in the shooting yesterday. it will be at rock creek church which is here at 640 here in virginia beach and it is open to the public and we encourage anyone who wants to share in that to be able to attend. one of the most important responsibilities i have today is to make a correction to the name of the individual. we mistook the middle initial for joshua hardy. we put it in as an a. and it should be an o. so i want to make sure that is corrected. if you pulled the file down from our website, you now have that corrected information. but i didn't want to leave today without giving you that information. there are a lot of pop who have wanted to drop by memorials and candles and there is a area to
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receive those and that is at the flag right outside of the -- right in front of the public -- the public safety, the police department, which is on princess ann road, building 11 to the left of the flagpole. there is the flag right there and that is where we're going to hope that people will be able to gather and share those mow mementos and the amount of support is -- it is incredible. we're immensely grateful for the support that we have received and we hope you'll continue to extend that to the families and the rest of the employees. you want to know more. i've been hearing from you that you want to know more about each of the individuals. and i think as we are able to work with the families, thabs -- that is going to be easier so if you give us time there will be people that want to tell you everything about these people that you want to know. what questions do you have for us today? >> an update on the injuries? >> i'm sorry? >> update on the injuries. we have -- there is not really
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been much change on them from earlier. we have three critical and one in fair condition. >> what is the officers -- what is his condition? >> he's been treated and released. you remember, you might remember that the chief had indicated that it was his vest that saved him yesterday. >> last news conference we heard that the suspect was an employee but we're hearing from federal law enforcement sources that he was indeed fired so could we get a clarification? >> can you please let me know what federal law enforcement gave you that information? >> i could just tell you my sources as federal law enforcement. we're hearing that he was fired. >> okay, you could correct your source. that is not correct. >> it is not correct? >> yes, sir. >> he is not fired. >> yes, sir, he is not fired. >> [ inaudible question ] >> where? >> what time. >> approximately -- well, i don't know exactly what time he entered the building. i know
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the time we got tfirst call, shortly after 4:00 p.m. one moment. i will have the exact timeline as to when the first call came out. i can tell you that the call was dispatched within the timely fashion and that the first officers arrived within minutes and i'll give you the exact moment when we engage with the suspect after that. >> was there -- any. >> excuse me. yes, ma'am. >> did the suspect go to work on friday? >> did he go to work? i don't have that information. we'll get that at a later time. >> chief, have you interviewed coworkers and have they given you any information on a possible motive or events that would lead to this. >> we have interviewed co-workers and i'm not at liberty to discuss what their information was. we have a question over here, sir. >> just a question for the governor, considering there is now an open question about -- considering the motive is unclear right now, what are you saying to government employees fearful of returning to work because they're unsure if
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they'll be safe. >> this was a horrific tragedy and right now we want to let everybody know that they are safe. there are accommodations being made to continue our government services here in the city of virginia beach. but until we gather more information, there is really not a whole lot more to say. but they are safe at this time. >> can we get the name of the atf official that spoke? >> spelling. >> sean, shan and benedict. >> and your title? >> special agent in charge. >> a question for the chief. for members of the community who want to do something, what do you guys need today? what do you want need right? >> from members of our community, citizens who work for our city need their support. now when i say you need the support, that is a nebulous thing to be able to say. we need an outpouring of support. at these vigils that will
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happen, come to the vigil. show up at the vigil. for our police officers, this is an absolute horrific event. of unbelievable proportions. but police officers go to work every day and they do things not at this level. but they do things sometimes with an amount of intensity every day. police officers put themselves in harms way every day for people that they never met and people they have no connection to and for people they'll never see again. so to the citizens of our city, i would like to see the support for the police officers, remember as i talk the earlier today, we trained recently on such an incident as this with our fire and ems representatives. give them the support they also need. nobody gets in a public service in public safety for paying benefits or getting in for an
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in trinsive value and they said something in the water, show the young people we have their back. so this is the time we need to say to our cops, let's show them we have your back. >> chief -- you said that there was a -- that the shooter appeared to be shooting indiscriminately. yet any number of the victims work in the precise division where this gentleman went to work over day. could you reconcile that. >> we're working through that. and what we're saying is when he come upon someone, that is when he took action. we're working through the timeline and the actual event. what event took place and when and we'll try to piece that together as best as we could. >> we're hearing from the -- employees from the city there is some sense he had some friction or difficulty at work. you could confirm there was some past behavior that led police to believe he might not necessary by -- >> i can't confirm that until those who are interviewing
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everyone can give us a complete report as to what led up to this particular incident. >> chief, have you reviewed his electronic cell phones and texts, computers at home or anything like that and, if so, have they given you any indication of a possibility? >> as investigators they review everything they can possibly review. once that is all put together, in a documented investigation file, it will be reviewed and term what led up to the incident. one second. >> this was a planned -- something that he planned and thinking about for days and weeks or something that you think sparked an event. >> again, that will come out once we get all of the intel work, background investigation and work done. we've only been 24 hours into this and the first piece of any investigation is to make sure that we have the crime scene completely reviewed which is what we've just completed. so that is -- it is -- the detectives are in that phase. >> when you say where -- this is
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a question for the atf agent in charge, where that second gun was found in the building? >> actually, i would defer to the fbi special agent if charge. >> now, we're going to hold off on where weapons were found. one moment. it might not satisfy you right now but as we could give information, we'll release it. yes, sir. >> when government offices reopen is there any plan to bolster security with metal detectors or security personnel. >> we have security in all of the buildings but as a government employee who walked into the building, so if we're going to go to metal detectors for all employees, i will defer that to higher city authorities on how the buildings can be reconfigured. >> release a time line? >> the timeline. you are releasing the timeline. >> i expect to release it tomorrow. and, again, it is not just the
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time that we have posted on a computer dispatch, because that is a time officers call in. but in a situation like this, they're not thinking to call in exactly what they're doing, they're engaged and then calling it in. >> do you have any -- do you have any idea how many people were in the building at the time -- >> i do not. >> do you have a sense of given the timely nature of the police response how important that was in terms of saving lives? >> well, i can give you from 44 years of being a police officer anecdotal, that was extremely important. because the longer it takes, the more carnage they would have had to the officers got there as quick as they could. theyin gaugge -- engaged with h as quick as they could and they were able to neutralize him as quick as they possibly could and think in the overall scheme of things that saved a number of lives in that building. >> what employees were required
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to come in mond morning and where are you loektding t -- log the services? >> we're having those conversations right now and we'll have specific information that will be sent out to employees once the final decisions are made. we are absolutely looking at some modifications of the schedule. but how we're going to work that out for the logistics of some of the essential services, that is the piece that we'll work on and we'll have it out as soon as we can. >> thank you. >> any response from the shooter's parents? we got a report that someone talked to the parents? did they offer any kind of sympathy or condolences? >> i'm not aware of any -- received anything from the city side. >> the individuals that is one of the parents, did not report back what the parents had to say. we'll interview them for the investigative purposes of this. >> chief, were there additional
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items found at his resident that are pertinent to the investigation, specifically with the securities cameras out of the windows of his apartment and you could tell us about those. >> i cannot release that information from the search warrant at this time. i'll take one more question. >> can you tell us did he live by himself or at a house with anyone or akwantsances or family? did he live by himself? >> who do i have -- chief gallagher. >> right here. he lived alone. >> the information we have is that he lived alone. and sir, since you raised your hand at the same time, you're the last question. >> if you could speak takts -- tactically about how they engaged the shooter. i understand you can't go too far, but was it what you guys trained? did it work out more or less to what you prepared for. >> very good question, thank you. we train extensively on firearms
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tactics. we train extensively on self-defense and on deescalation tactics. now in this particular case, there was no deescalation taktices. he's fires as soon as he saw the officers he engaged at the officers. so we train in what we call close quarter battle, that is the best term i could give you and that is officers positioning themselves to take the tactical advantage and in order to use deadly force. and i have to really acsen shce those. they are the only ones that could use deadly force on an individual and they take that seriously and in this case they reverted back to the tactics and training and reverted back to self discipline because they learn that in training and reverted back to the discipline that we have as a police agency in order to return fire as tactically and efficiently as possible and that is what happened. so thank you, sir.
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>> more or less how many times did the shooter shoot? >> don't have that specific information and i don't think i'll release that until after the investigation is completes. so as i said, that will be the last question. >> how long will the fbi be in the building, do you estimate? >> i just said that is the last question, but considering you're local, we'll let you ask that. i can't give you the exact number of hours or days, but we're going to be there until that investigation is completed. they have teams going in and out. they are rehab iilitating with food and water and housed locally. so in police work, we stay until the job is completed. thank you. >> so there you have the latest update coming from the officials there in virginia beach. including the special agent in charge for the atf, a sean benedict who talked about the weapons that were involved in all of this. pete williams is still with us
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and david gura with us from the scene in virginia beach as well as jim cavanaugh, our former atf special agent. pete, i want to start with you, what stood out to you from that press conference? >> just that it was two weapons and not just one and that would also explain perhaps how he was able to get off so many rounds. but they're both the same, they're both the .45-caliber handgun. not clear whether both of them had silences or just one. but we know at least one did have a silencer. it seems likely both did based on what the witnesses have said about the sounds of the gunfire sounding rather distant. and who knows whether he shifted to the second one when the police encountered him or what. that will take a while to figure out. just to clarify something, because it may be a little confusing, when the police chief said the fbi is taking over part of this, all of the fbi is taking over is the work inside of that building. the evidence recovery and a very
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difficult process of processing the crime scene. it takes a long time and they try to account for every round, where it did come from and where did it go and that is a lot of work and the fbi has a lot of experience doing that. so that is the part of this investigation that they're leading. but this remains a virginia police department case and it will be -- if it had been prosecuted it would be prosecuted locally. this isn't a federal crime. this is a local crime. so that is why the virginia police remain in charge here. and the other thing is just the chief emphasizing now i guess for the third time that the suspect was actually still a city employee when this shooting was carried out. there have been persistent claims that he had been fired. but the police chief continues to say, no, that is not correct. but of course it is still raising the question of what was the precipitating event here, what touched him off. our initial impression was that
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he had purchased weapons within the last several weeks but the atf clarified to say they're tracing back shows one was bought perhaps as much as three years ago in 2016, the other in 2018. so he's had at least one of the weapons for a while. the second one for several months. >> and the police chief saying not sure what the motive was behind all of this. and jim, the police chief talked about the training tactics. when it comes to these sort of fire fights and as you mentioned, you've been part of a fire fight. what did you make of what they might have done yesterday, their tactical efforts. >> degree of excellence. they have four officers. any trainer on the active shooter will tell you that to move quickly, with three or four officers, to engage the shooter and they did that and i'm sure like the chief said they were shooting from tactical advantage, cover in doorways and in stairwells, so the shooter
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could not hurt the officers. they did it flawlessly. once they engaged him it is likely he never killed again and so they're real heroes. they did a flawless engagement and quick response and moved quickly and as a unit. and they took him down. so i think that was very good. kendis, as far as motive, it is a large discussion always. but let me give you a little clarification and anization of that for our viewers. the motives for violent crime center around power, greed, hate, revenge and escape. this is not greed, there is no evidence of hate, and there is no evidence of escape. this is most likely a revenge motive. it could be a little bit of power in here. but it is mostly and sometimes there is and the motives could cross and interlock but the motive is probably revenge on the co-workers for slights, for things where he thinks he was treated wrong. the chief said he was not fired but in government service, a lot of times you get a notice you
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may be fired in 30 days. so there could be disciplining action involved that could have been a precipitating event. >> and my colleague david gura is standing there in virginia beach outside of the municipal building number two. and one of the last questions brought up there during the press conference dealt with whether or not the complex will be open come monday morning. and a lot of people aren't away of this complex. it is some 30 buildings, it is basically what runs the city of virginia beach. the largest city in all of the commonwealth there. what do you get a sense of what is shut down at this point and i imagine that it will be tough for many people to come back there to that complex. >> reporter: kendis, there are parts of the campus closed. you could see the police tape prohibiting us from getting closer to building number two but what you're citing is accurate, the center of the government is here. i keep saying it is like a college campus and over here there is a juvenile detention facility and the 911 dispatch
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center is beyond so there is a whole lot in this immediate piece of property. you heard from the governor northam saying there will be accommodations made in the coming days to make sure that the government here, the local government to continue going about its business while the investigation unfolds but while there are portions closed off to pedestrian and vehicle traffic, you could drive around many parts of this. it is quiet and fairly empty and also a saturday, i should say. but i think they're going to try to strike that balance here in the coming days and one thread to pull lear from what we heard from the press conference, you had the mayor of the city really trying to get ahold of the narrative surrounding the shooting. i listened to what jim said about the motivation behind attacks like this and what the moyer and the city manager and the police chief want to convey this is not what this community is. i will quote from the mayor here. we'll not be defined by this horror and talked about the spirit of volunteerism in this community. that is virginia beach, he said. and we've heard that throughout my entire time here.
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again, trying to wrestle control of the narrative in that way to move past what everybody here is characterizing as a particularly dark and terrible moment in the city history. >> and they've been trying to wrestle the narrative and in a couple of hours after the shooting took place from the very first press conference. david, one quick other note, we did notice while the press conference was taking place, that the flag there at the white house has now gone down to half-staff and the press did release a statement. you were noting earlier on by tweet. but hours later. >> yeah, the president this morning sending off a tweet as he made his way to the trump national government course for a round of golf that he had been in touch with the governor and the mayor and vice mayor offering federal support. we see this notice here again just a few moments ago indicating that flags are going to be at half-mast until june 4th of this week. i should say i believe that is thursday of this week. we learned during the press conference that there is going to be a citywide vigil in virginia beach on thursday night
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at a church here in virginia beach and you heard from the communications director of the city say how important that event is going to be. the chief of police doubling down on that as well and he said that this is a time during which the community needs to support law enforcement. he is saying that everyone should be at that vigil. june the 4th, the vigil taking place on tuesday of this week. >> no doubt it is a scene sadly reminiscent of so many other vigils across the country including virginia back in 2007. msnbc david gura there in virginia beach with the very latest at 6:00 p.m. and our thanks to pete williams and jim cavanaugh as well. thank you. well still ahead, calls for impeachment growing louder from democratic lawmakers but speaker pelosi not ready. could time be running out for congress to act? e running out f congress taco t?
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heinz mayonnaise, unforgettably creamy. this network saved my life. my car was swept away in a flash flood. after about five hours, a lot of phone calls, they sent a helicopter, picked me up to safety. (vo) the network more people rely on, gives you more. like big savings on our best phones when you switch. that's verizon. like.. pnc easy lock, so you can easily lock your credit card when its maximum limit differs from its vertical limit. and clover flex, for when you need to take credit cards when no one carries cash. or requesting a call to help get a new credit card- one that hasn't followed the family goldfish. pnc - make today the day. well call it the mueller effect. in the three days since special counsel robert mueller made his
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first public statement, several members of congress have now come out in favor of starting the process of impeachment. some saying mueller left them no choice. by putting the ball in congress's court. >> under long-standing department policy, a president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we can consider. >> the opinion said that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. >> well "the new york times" said a total now of 55 house lawmakers support launching the proceedings but the politics is what is stopping nancy pelosi from effectively holding the president accountable. some top democrats are concerned that the divisive process could cost them the white house in 2020. joining me now to discuss is white house chief correspondent
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at "the new york times" and msnbc political analyst peter baker and "new york times" columnist and msnbc contributor michelle goldberg. peter, i will start with you because in the new article you write that the mueller press conference has further divided washington. what sort of message did he deliver? >> well, exactly right. he was -- you played the most salient part there where he said the constitution and envisions some process other than the criminal justice system for holding a president accountability but he did not say what democrats would have liked him to have said which is in plain terms that he thinks that the house should take this up and an impeachment inquiry. he didn't say it that way. you could infer it that way. but as a result of that, because it was not as declarative as that, you have this situation where everybody is drawing what they want out of this. the democrats who are critical of president trump are saying that the evidence that robert mueller collected certainly justifies an impeachment inquiry and republicans say it is time to move on and the president
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says case closed. and we're lock in this tribal division that we were in before mueller spoke and where there is hardly any consensus about the way to move forward. >> and michelle, would you consider this -- the mueller report and him speaking about it and basically saying, here, congress, it is your business, i'm not in this. you have to deal with it. is there a referral to congress? >> right. that seems -- i wish he had said it more clear because i think that he's a person who sort of believes that if you lay the facts out then the -- the system will work as it should to adjudicate those facts and i don't think we live in that world any more. and so i think he should even though it is against his nature to make either kind of political judgments or declarative judgments. feeling like he -- i understand that he feels like under the doj guidelines he can't say that the president -- someone said he's stuck using a double negative well i can't say that he didn't
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commit a crime. >> which throws you for a loop. >> so he clearly felt he had to clarify something and that is why he gave the press conference in the first place but i don't think he needs to testify as much as he didn't want to if what he is saying is that we have found evidence of obstruction of justice, and the only constitutional recomme-- e remedy is impeachment and then he should say it more directly and before congress. >> there is a conference taking place on the west coast with the democrats. the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi was there and continues to argue against impeaching trump. take a listen: >> i think the president wants us to impeach him. >> you think he wants us to impeach him? >> he knows it is not a good idea about toe impeached but the silver lining for him is then he believes that he would be exonerated by the united states senate. so when we go with our case, it has to be ironclad --
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>> so you -- >> and that was jimmy kimmel but she repeated and echoed the same sentiments in the bay area in the last couple of hours. michelle, refusing to impeach trump is more risky than launching proceedings. why? >> there is the fear he will be exonerated in the senate which i think is probably true as far as it goes. but when they don't impeach him, i think that many people in the country take that as an exoneration. and he special is going to -- he will certainly interpret that as exoneration. and the message the country gets is he must not committed crimes that rise to the level of impeachment otherwise democrats who want him out of there would step up and do something. the message that not all democrats but top democrats keep running with is that he's kind of a criminal, he's out of control, he's defying the constitution, he's kmipted
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obstruction of justice and we can't impeach him until we know that some number of republicans are there, or until we know that the majority of the public are there. i think it makes them seem like a little bit weak and disingenuous and if you have to be -- if you believe that's where the public should be you have to make your case to the public, not wait for the public to make your case for you. >> so donny deutsch, our colleague had a different take on it, peter. take a listen to what he said on morning joe yesterday. >> the word is criminal. it is the trump criminal investigation. that is the branding. it is criminal. you continue a criminal -- that is the word, guys -- brand him or convict him already. >> so donnie knows branding. and so that where he's coming from. he's saying basically, impeachment has a bad, bad -- is a bad word as the president said. what do you make of donnie's suggestion there, that democrats have a messaging problem in this
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whole thing? >> well, the problem is i think in washington these days because we are so polarized, we are so divided into the tribes that there is not sort of a dispassionate consideration of the evidence. is there enough to accuse him of high crimes and mirdss or not and everything is seen through the political lens and it is not surprised that nancy pelosi will make the calculations and getting 20 senators to break from the president are slim. branding is in fact the president's strong point. it is something that he has used to remarkable effect in politics. he said he knows that the old phrase, repeat again and again. no obstruction and no obstruction. he's a hoax and witch hunt and the phrases we've heard so many times and it has been a powerful tool for him and shaping the narrative of the investigation. i don't know that there is any democrat out there that can counter that with the same profile, with the same sort of megabull horn that he had and
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that is the challenge they have. >> donnie is saying that the democrats have to own the narrative and change the wording right there. our thanks to peter baker and michelle goldberg. thank you very much. we're talking about impeachment. and as we mentioned there is the conference taking place in california. within the last couple of hours, kamala harris, the senator there, saying we need to begin impeachment proceedings immediately at that conference. ali vitali is in san francisco for us and i'm trying to get a sense of what kind of reaction that might have gotten. >> reporter: for kamala harris, when she got on stage, that impeachment line was one of the biggest applause lines but the person got the most positive reception was elizabeth warren who was talking about really the larger pitch for her candidacy in terms of who she is if she were to lead the democratic party, leaning into bold progressive ideas and someone who attacked people on stage just now here who might be holding progressive ideas at
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arm's length. listen to what she said. >> well, here is the thing, when a candidate tells you about all of the things that aren't possible, about how the calculations come first, about how you should settle for little bits and pieces you should settle for bits and pieces instead of real change, they are telling you something important. they are telling you that they will not fight for you. i'm here to fight. >> reporter: look, if you are going to make the argument to a group of people who that want to beat trump, this is where she talked about how she planned to do that. her theme has been i've got a plan for that. and today she said she had a plan to win. so this is the place that you want to make that argument, whereas we mentioned at the top of the segment where kamala harris and others have gotten the biggest applause for things like impeaching the president.
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elizabeth warren mentioning the big green deal. >> and very easy to get good applause when you are mentioning those things in california. the impeachment word is basically a good applause line for many of the democrats there. thank you. let's bring in our panel. welcome to both of you. ellie, many candidates are flooding california right now. it is voting on super tuesday. can they really -- what would be the different message that would make the key for them right now? is it the impeachment message in that state or what is the message? >> i think that on the ground in the base impeachment is a thing that people want. so i do think that people -- democratic leaders who are going out and pushing that argument will have more luck in states that are particularly liberal.
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i think that it is interesting that the frontrunner, joe biden, who is trying to stay at arm's length from impeachment isn't even out in california. like that is his -- i was saying john, i think that he is going into his prevent defense a little early. but he doesn't seem to want to go out to california where he knows that he will be pressed on these liberal -- base liberal concerns like impeachment, like the "green new deal," like medicame medicare for all. >> right now he is in columbus, ohio at a dinner for the lgbt campaign. so trying to tap into that lgbtq crowd even though mayor pete is in the crowd there and he is one of the candidates. how important in the grand scheme is california for many of these candidates? >> we don't know yet because california just announced that they are moving their primary date up to super tuesday. >> yeah, everybody was like june was okay. >> so that was deliberate on the
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part of both parties because it is so expensive to contest their california that they were trying to give their candidates a break having the early states cheaper and easier to traverse. this creates a very interesting conundrum for all the presidential candidates which is if you really want to win california, you're going to have to spend $25 million there. that is a lot of money to have to raise and to in abeyance that you might want to use elsewhere. so this throws an interesting monkey wrench into all the calculations that people have been making during primaries for the last four years. >> and texas is early as well. >> and you will also have to build a broad based coalition to win california. so you will go through iowa, new hampshire which are predominantly white states. and by the time you hit california, you won't just have to have a coalition full of people of color, you will have to have -- full of black people, you will have to have a
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coalition full of la ttinos tooo be competitive. and i think ultimately that is good for the democratic party that we force our candidates to start building broader earlier. i think that that is great. >> sounds like you are saying that joe biden is making a mistake by skipping it. >> this is where i have to disagree. if you want a broad based coalition, you have to win the larger states. you will do better being a major tearian candidate. in other words, if you have a universe of potentially 15 mill one people who can vote in your primary, if you are the guy who is ahead with the largest factor of the party, at 30%, 35%, you will have a better shot at winning the bigger state than somebody who comes in with one or two issues. >> prevent defense. and the republican governor of maryland, who has been an outspoken critic of trump, within the last couple of hours announcing that he will not run against the president.
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shocker? >> coward. i mean, come on. run or get out of the way. we have bill weld running, all the never trump republicans. one needs to get in and run and put a real challenge to president trump. >> look, i think it would be great if somebody challenged trump because i think that makes for an interesting -- >> it is interesting that they kind of all waited until we know about the mueller report. >> generally speaking politicians do not run in cases that they are not possibly win. you don't just throw yourself into -- you throw yourself into the breach knowing that the breach is like where you're going to die. you know? you sort of hope that you might succeed in a breach and in-hogan looked at that time and said 85% to 90% of republicans a proof of trump, so this is a ridiculous thing do. >> yeah, bill weld was on real time last night. and bill maher was like he ain't
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going to win. i have to leave it there. ellie and john, thanks to you both. still ahead, we're continuing to follow the developments out of virginia beach. from virginia beach to pittsburgh and parkland, we'll hear from gun control advocates who say something must be done before another life is lost. we'll be right back. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today. and we're usaa members for life. the doctor's office might mejust for a shot.o but why go back there when you can stay home
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hour. the news continues with richard lui. and i'm seeing that it will be a very busy hour for you. the president announcing that emmet flood is leaving the white house as well. >> we have lots of news. thank you, ken dis. see you tomorrow. i'm richard lui right here in new york city. thanks for spending your time with us. first up this evening, new details in the virginia beach shooting that took the lives of 12 people, the worst shooting in the city's his tear and deadliest of the 150 mass shootings that happened in america this year so far. place say call for the help came in 4 hours ago when the suspect, a long time city engineer, stormed into the public work bes building, opened fire, he went floor to floor looking for victims. victims were found on each of the levels. this all ended when the suspect was shot dead in what police describe as a long gunbattle. police have not released a motive as of yet.
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