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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  June 19, 2019 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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reemerged. federal reserve chair jerome powell talking about our state of the economy just after the -- but the fed hinted at rate cuts in the future. that's exactly where this happened by the way. the markets were doing this, and then they suddenly did that. it isn't that much, by the way. it's two-tenths of a percent. checking the other indices. now everything is in the green as a result of the fed hinting. and i mean hinting that it might decrease rates after a little while. jerome powell, the chairman of the federal reserve says the fed is going to keep a very close eye on economic data. >> in light of increased uncertainties and muted inflation pressures, we now emphasize that the committee will closely monitor the implementations of incoming information for the economic outlook, and we'll act as appropriate to abstain the
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expansion near its 2% objective. >> all right. let's begin our coverage with msnbc's david who joins us from the floor of the new york stock exchange. the chart, david, showed a big pop when the federal reserve suggested that 2 would look at economic data, the hint being that if the economy weakens a little bit, the fed will perhaps lower interest rates a little bit like the president wants. but it wasn't actually a very big reaction. >> no, you're right. so what we're talking about here, ali, is fed policy and fed politics. so let's start with what we learned today. the if ed is going to keep rates where they are. this is very much a wait and see approach. and when jay powell followed this with a statement, he said his overarching goal is to sustain the economy we have right now with the feds folkused on maximum employment and a inflation rate of 2%. the focus here very much is on what's going to happen over these next few weeks between now
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and the next fed meeting which is in july. let me read a little bit here from what the feds issued today. the committee continues to view sustained expansion of economic activity, strong labor market conditions and inflation over the committee's symmetric 2% objective as the most likely outcome. but, and this is the key clause here, ali, but uncertainties about that outcome have increased. >> and i will just stop you, david, because this is the thing that you and i have lived in this world where these little minute changes in obscure sentences mean a lot to traders. most people reading that stuff would say, hey, could you just tell me this in english what exactly are you saying because this is the world in which the fed lives. little changes and little things mean that little things may happen down the road. >> you're absolutely right. so in this statement, this is the thing that we are looking at, the piece of paper, the word "patience" has been removed. so we really are talking about
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changing words or phrases. what's looming large here, i mentioned fed politics is what the president has been saying about the feds. he has not been shy about the fact that he wants to see rates cut. let's just take a listen to what the president has been saying about the federal reserve, just unprecedented the kind of comments he's been making. >> i don't necessarily agree with it because he's raising interest rates. >> my biggest threat is the fed because the fed is raising rates too fast, and it's independent so i don't speak to him, but i'm not happy with what he's doing. >> frankly, if we had a different person in the federal reserve that wouldn't have raised interest rates so much, we would have been at least a point and a half higher. 3.2 is -- you know, we also have people in there that were in my pick. but he's my pick, and i disagree with him entirely. as you know, it's independent. >> i just want to pick up on that last thing he said.
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these aren't my people. the president has picked four of the five governors who sit on the reserve right now. there is a sense here that between now and the next meeting you are going to have this meeting at the g20 in osaka, japan. there is hope among many market participants that the president and president xi are going to be able to come to some agreement on the issue of trade. what happened today, very much in line again with what expectations were going into this meeting yesterday and today. >> and that is why we are seeing a limited response and turns from negative to positive. david gura for us at the new york stock exchange. the federal reserve's decision comes as the nation is dealing with the fallout from president trump's trade war from china. the president tweeted yesterday that he had a good conversation with chinese president xi jinping and that the two leaders will meet during the g20 summit in japan. $250 billion in chinese imports from 10% to 25% back in may.
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china responded by raising tariffs on $60 billion of u.s. imports into china. residents in forrest city, arkansas, say they hope the trade war is resolved soon as plans by a chinese company to revitalize a plant are hanging. vaugn joins us now from arkansas. vaughn, what is the deal with the chinese textual manufacturer or television manufacturer, what's that got to do with the trade war? >> reporter: exactly, ali. these conversations about trade are not obscure conversations. in small cities around this country. when you go from city to city through rural america, you consistently hear about a desire for corporations for businesses to invest in manufacturing facilities in cities like forest
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city. you mentioned it. there is actually a chinese textile company, rui that has already bought this property behind us. they bought it just over a little a year and a half ago. and their plan was to build a textile plant here in forrest city. but amid this trade war, the opening of that plant is on hold. i want to play for you a part of our interview with the mayor of this town of 15,000 as well as the head of the local chamber of commerce. >> how important is trade to a community like forrest city? >> well, it is important. you talk about agriculture. you talk about the factory that is looking at relocating here was a chinese factory. so it's very important, it affects our particular area. >> these decisions to us matter because we're getting hit on all sides. we are losing funding on soybeans, losing funding on rice. we have had some stalled industry for these reasons.
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for us it's a big deal. >> reporter: what you hear from folks on the ground is they say that uncertainty abounds always in these cities. there is always constant effort from city government but also state officials that are working to recruit corporations, and sometimes that means foreign entities that are looking to invest in places like this. they would take, essentially, this plant would take cotton that is produced here in arkansas and turn it into yarn. and the other part of this, this is also an agricultural community. if you go out here beyond this city, you will see fields and fields of cotton and soy beans being planted today. there is uncertainty in forrest city, arkansas. >> are you going to end up in miami by the way at some point? >> i think as long as the car keeps going, i think we will make it there. >> you are taking the longest route anybody has ever taken to get to miami.
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but we are keeping an eye on how americans are being affected by this trade war. trump's longest-serving aide hope hicks is refusing to answer her time at the white house in today's closed-door testimony. democrats said she even refused to identify the location of her west wing office as the white house communications director. democratic congressman from california tweeted i am watching obstruction of justice in action as the justice department is objecting to everything that she wants to say during her tenure in the white house. the administration's position is absurd, and they will lose in court. what is the real donald trump administration hiding? hicks did discuss her time on the campaign trail as campaign spokeswoman. she is the first administration official cited in special counsel robert mueller's report to testify before the committee. and her name appears more than 180 times throughout both volumes i and ii of the report.
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she's mentioned in several critical moments that special counsel robert mueller mentioned in his report that shows possible attempt to obstruct justice. according to mueller's report, hicks briefed the president on an unsuccessful effort to persuade white house counsel don mcgahn to have mueller removed as special counsel back in june of 2017. quote, the president's personal counsel called don mcgahn's attorney and said that the president wanted mcgahn to put out a statement denying that he had been asked to fire the special counsel and that he had threatened to quit in protest. mcgahn's attorney informed the president's personal counsel that the "the time" story was accurate. mcgahn could not comply with the president's request to refute the story. that one of his attorneys had spoken to mcgahn's attorney about the issue. nod incident involved a year after the 2016 trump tower meeting that could shed more light on whether or not trump was aware of that meeting at the time. the report reads on at least three occasions the president
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directed hicks and others not to publicly disclose information about the june 9th, 2016 meeting between senior campaign officials and a russian attorney. hicks warned the president that the emails setting up the june 9th meeting were really bad, and the story would be massive when it broke. later on the president dictated a statement to hicks that said "the meeting was about russian adoption. the statement did not mention the offer of derogatory information about clinton. joining me now from capitol hill is nbc's kelly o'donnell. kelly, i guess my biggest question to you is what lawmakers were trying to get out of hope hicks. there is nothing in hope hicks' history that would suggest that she is under any pressure to flip on the president or to say something that is not going to continue to be in defense of the president. she has made most of her working career out of supporting donald trump. >> she has certainly by all
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accounts been a local confidant and aide to donald trump in his business life, in his campaign life, and then inside the white house until march of 2018 when she left and returned to the private sector. so, you're right, there is no indication that she would surprise the president by saying something unexpected here. but democrats are trying to go through each of the examples that are important to them taken from the mueller report. other questions that they have, and when you talk about a question that seems as innocuous as the location of her office, congressman ted did tell us that that was one of the questions asked in part to sort of show the proximity that she had to the president. but the immunity that the white house is claiming that they say is absolute for senior aides to the president as a matter of separation of powers executive branch and legislative branch would apply to everything. so, again, using the notion of if we were watching a crime drama, if someone asserted the fifth amendment, they would have
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to use that for all questions. so you can't really respond to any of them if there is going to be this kind of an assertion of immunity. democrats say that is a nonstarter that it's a false legal premise, even though there is a history to this in both democratic and republican white houses of wanting to have this sort of cone around the president so that his advisers would feel they could give unfettered advice and counsel and another be drawn before the committees and answer about that. so, they're walking -- we are now beyond six hours, ali. and so they're going through all of the instances so they have a record of the kinds of things they have asked her to demonstrate she has not responded and we're told she has answered questions and cooperated on areas before her time in government service. so, we'll see the transcript in a couple of days, and that will give us a chance to dissect what was asked, answered and unanswered here today. >> thank you, kelly o'donnell on
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capitol hill for us. the white house told the house judiciary committee that hicks is absolutely -- this is a quote by the way. hicks is absolutely immune from compelled congressional testimony with respect to matters occurring during her service as a senior adviser to the president. could the quote continues. the long-standing principle of immunity for senior advisers to the president is firmly rooted in the constitution's separation of powers and protects the core functions of the presidency. technically speaking, the legal basis that the president is using goes back decades. joining me is nbc news correspondent ken delaney. can ely's last point is that any answers that hope hicks has given today have been about her time before he was president because that is not material that the white house is claiming immunity over. >> right, ali. and this is actually a legal doctrine that presidents have been invoking for 75 years. and the justice department's office of legal counsel has gone along. and as you and kelly said, it's
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a separation of powers issue. they argue that since congress can't compel the president to testify, can't summon, the president, that it shouldn't be able to summon any of the president's close aides either. and that's why she is not answering any of those questions because if you're going to claim that, then that means you can't talk about anything that has to do with the white house. now democrats have cited this just as often as republicans. harry truman cited it about a labor dispute, and barack obama cited it as recently as 2014 to stop a low-level assistant to the president. >> so in the end, the takeaway for our viewers is that democrats are getting on the record with what hope hicks will and won't say. they are not likely, we'll guess we will see it in a couple days -- they are not likely to glean new information from her. >> that's right. but what i think they are trying to do is set in motion a court case because there is no case law on the subject. there is no major supreme court
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or appeals court decision. there is, however, one judicial opinion in the bush administration democrats are trying to get the testimony of then white house counsel harriet meyers and it's wound its way through the federal courts. the president's wrong, there is no absolute immunity. but then the case was appealed, and the obama administration settled that case and allowed harriet meyers to testify. and so that decision does not create a precedence. so it's an open question on what the courts will decide. democrats may take this refusal by hicks and take it up to the court and see whether this privilege is actually going to stand. we have breaking news from elco in northern nevada. a 60-mile stretch of interstate 80 has now been closed off in both directions while emergency crews respond to a train derailment with a hazardous material spill. authorities say approximately a dozen cars were involved in the accident and none of the cars involved were carrying
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explosives. there's been no word yet about where the train was coming from or where it was headed as the investigation remains -- the incident remains under investigation. coming up for the first time in more than a decade, congress holds a hearing on reparations, compensation for the descendants of slaves in the united states. one of the lawmakers in this fiery hearing wants to know why not now. up next a breakdown of what it would take to make reparations a reality. plus, a new u.n. report points to who may be responsible for the death of jayal khashoggi. you are watching msnbc.
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former vice president joe biden is once again facing outrage as the camaraderie among 2020 democratic presidential contenders appears to be fading fairly quickly. at a new york city fundraiser last night, biden touted his experience working with two segregationist southern senators as an example of the civility within the senate back in the 1970s and '80s. new york mayor bill de blasio, also a presidential candidate, had some thoughts about that. he tweeted it's 2019 and joe biden is longing for the good old days of civility tipified by james eastland. eastland thought my multiracial family should be illegal and that whites were entitled to the pursuit of dead -- and he uses the n-word. it's past time for apologizes or evolution from joe biden.
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he repeatedly demonstrates he is out of step. senator cory booker also weighed in saying i can tell vice president biden that he is wrong for using his relationships with eastland and tammadge. but on capitol hill today, the house of representatives held the first hearing on reparations for slavery in more than a decade. and it's happening on a very significant day for our nation. juneteenth which commemorates the united states 154 years ago abolition of slavery. between 1619 and 1865, about 4 million people were brought to what became the united states in the transatlantic slave trade. they and their descendants feel fuelled the nation's economy, particularly with free labor, in the south. when slavery was abolished in the south, the newly freed
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people were promised 40 acres and a mule. andrew johnson overturned the agreement. instead compensating former slaveholders. reconstruction that period right after the war was ended prematurely in 1877. and throughout the 20th century, black people were denied voting rights through jim crow laws. black veterans were denied full g.i. bill benefits. black homeowners were denied equal housing through something called redlining. and black americans were terrorized. more than 4,400 people were lynched. in 2016 the median black american family net worth was $17,600. that means half of all families had wealth that was higher than that, half lower. that's the median. 17,600. compared with the median white americans' household wealth, 171,000. this is ten times that number. this is according to the federal reserve. between 1983 and 2017, black home ownership ticked down by 2
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percentage points after years of very little variation. white home ownership has gone up relatively steadily. these are things that this new reparation effort would try to address. hr40 as the bill is known, this is all it calls for, the study of the damage done by slavery and its legacy and the formulation of proposals for programs to increase economic, educational, and other opportunities for black americans. earlier, the economist julian spoke about the structural inequalities that still exist in this country. >> we can go back and look at the minimum wage which exclude farm workers in the south, excluded domestic workers for black women. so these folks were excluded not only from the minimum wage but also from the social security system. i want you all congress people to deal with issues of economic structure how economic structure has generated an inequality that
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make it's difficult for people to live their lives. when zip code determines what kind of school that you go to. when zip code determines what kind of food you can eat. these are the vestiges of enslavement that a lot of people don't want to deal. with. >> joining me now robert patterson, sir, good to see you again. thank you for being with us. you and i have talked about this before. it needs to be made clear to people. this is not hr40 is not a bill for reparations. it's not each close to a bill for reparations. the we are hearing hearings on a bill that we could set up a commission to sort of look at the bad things that happened to african-americans and sort of look at it in the future. >> thank you for having me back this afternoon. this beginning conversation would say, look, we know, it would actually begin to acknowledge that there are long-term economic consequences that are not only related to child slavery but also the jim crow segregation that happens
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from the end of reconstruction and arguably even past the post-civil rights or into the civil rights era and beyond it too. >> so here's the question. mitch mcconnell was asked about this, and he pointed out that we're good, we had a black president, we are good with this stuff. ta-nehisi coates who was at today's hearing had this to say. let's listen to that. >> i don't think reparations for something that happened 150 years ago for whom none of us currently living are responsible is a good idea. we've, you know, tried to deal with our original sin of slavery by fighting a civil war bypassing landmark civil rights legislation. we have elected an african-american president. the. >> for a century after the civil war, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of majority leader mcconnell. we grant that mr. mcconnell was not alive for that, but he was
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alived for the electrocution of george stinney. he was alive for the blinding of isaac woodward. >> professor patterson, it's an interesting question because a lot of americans don't sucpport the idea of reparation for one thing, i didn't do it. >> a couple things on that, ali. first of all, part of the issue for mcconnell is that we are responsible in the present moment for we inherent all kinds of issues from the past for which we were not responsible and direct actors but that we have to grapple with. what's interesting about what mcconnell said were a couple of things. first of all i think it shows a limited understanding of what reparations are and what they look like and the different ways that they can manifest themselves. secondly, there has been an ongoing historical debate starting with 40 acres and a mule about reparations that keep getting obfiscated about who's
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responsible and who's not. and for me i think that that second point is very important to mcconnell in particular who in this term in congress has confirmed more than a few judges to the bench who will not affirm the significance of brown vs. board of education. >> which is fascinating. this is an interesting point. most humans watching this would say that brown vs. board of education is settled law that we are not into segregation of our schools. and we have judges being confirmed who will not say that went out. >> and they won't say that. and what's significant about that is that brown vs. board of education. the reason i mentioned plecy by accident, overturns the jim crow segregation and all of its economic political social educational terrors that plethy versus ferguson has substantiated. but to then confirm judges who would take us back to this past
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shows us that even when he has a place that he could be responsible, he has opted to not be. so for me this issue of not being responsible for the past is another way to obviscate the issues and how the past is directly and indirectly connected to the president. >> if someone has been done out of something, the fact that you yourself didn't do them out of it doesn't mean that they are not due something. >> right. because part of what it fails to acknowledge is how structures, right, create and diminish opportunities and how he perhaps and others have benefitted from those very structures from which black people have been excluded and that the reason they were able to benefit is directly tied to the exclusion of black people. and we can say, you know, even democratic candidates who say reparations, what does that actually mean? look, we can call it reparations, we can tall it equity. we can call it -- it doesn't matter necessarily what we call it, but we know that the issue that we are trying to specify
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has to do with specific renumeration for descendants of the enslaved. right, so black descendants of the slave. he also made some comments about that there were other immigrants discriminated. we are not talking about them. we are talking about enslaved black people and their descendants. so there is always this sort of convenient misconstruing of information and history that seems to serve an agenda on that -- that that warts this conversation when in reality we have the tools to have specific conversations about reparations about whom that would benefit, how they could play out and the many different forms they could take. >> and i suspect as the conversation becomes more specific, public support may grow because in general it's hard to be supportive of who pays whom for what and what happened. and i think as we start to narrow this down and say this is what we are looking for reparations for, and this is what the ultimate benefit of it would be, the general public might be able to understand that
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a little more clearly. we appreciate the time that you take to help us analyze this. robert patterson is the department of the chair of african-american studies at georgetown university. with more than half a million migrants crossing the border since january, federal officials say they are reaching a breaking point. in the last six months they have also received 100,000 applications for asylum with no room to house these asylum seekers at federal facilities, the government is turning to a few small border towns to help. cynthia mcfadden has the nbc exclusive. >> reporter: u.s. border patrol is dropping. critics say dumping families with little children awaiting asylum hearings in two small towns in new mexico. >> we have received 15,000 people through our shelters. >> 15,000 people? >> 15,000 people. >> reporter: consider tiny demming, new mexico, the tiny city in one of the nation's poorest states.
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many of them little kids were left by border patrol officials at the local mcdonald's. they had no money, no food, and no idea where they were. in the last month, a staggering 6,700 migrants have been brought to deming. town official chris bryce is in charge of helping them. >> we are getting really good at this. >> reporter: maybe too good at it. within 24 hours the town had set up a shelter on the fairgrounds with just about everybody pitching in. how much money are you spending a day? >> anywhere from 15 to 17,000 a day. >> reporter: the whole fire department relocated. >> one of the best things i've done as a firefighter. >> reporter: we've got a rare look inside this shelter. it represents a shift in federal policy. the feds used to be the only ones running shelters and paying for them. remember, this is not a federally-run detention center, it's a shelter. families spend a few days until moving in with a u.s. sponsor while waiting for their asylum hearings. these families we have agreed
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not to show their faces due to security concerns say they have fled to the u.s. in fear for their lives. most here spent two months traveling from guatemala or honduras like betsy. >> translator: we left because my family was under threat by drug traffickers. the they killed my brother. they came to my home, they took us out of our home and tried to kill us so we had to run for our lives. >> reporter: i see the tears. her brother had fled to the u.s. but was sent back. the only smile on betsy's face when she spoke about this child friendly space created by "save the children." the first time in their 100-year history, they have responded to a humanitarian crisis right here inside the u.s. barbara ran a space like this in afghanistan. >> it tugs at your heartstrings. rjt and this day a special visitor. save the children board member and volunteer jennifer garner.
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>> we get to see the beauty of kids in the worst of circumstances they have gone without baths, without food, without medical care, and they're here, happy to listen to me butcher good night month because they're children. >> reporter: one area of experties, assessing whether children are here with their real parents. >> very sadly had children recycled who have come through and then are seen back again with another family. >> so they're just pawns. they are being used. >> reporter: why? migrants without children can be held in detention indefinitely. migrants with children can only be held 20 days. dhs tells us they have intercepted nearly 5,000 people since october trying to enter with children not their own. and as for the politics? >> we don't even discuss the politics over here. i mean, it's this, it's what we do, or they would be out there on the street trying to find their own way. that's unacceptable to everybody.
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>> cynthia mcfadden reporting from new mexico for us. up next, how facebook could impact the fight against the next pandemic. plus, retired public the hero behind the miracle on the hudson in a hearing today called for more accountability and training following a rash of deadly 737 max airplane crashes. >> i think asking -- well, first we shouldn't be blaming dead pilots. we need to do much more than that. let's see, aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol extra strength.
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u.n. investigators calling for a full criminal investigation into the possible role of saudi crown prince mohammad bin salman in the killing of washington post columnist jamal khashoggi. that report draws no conclusion on his guilt but found credible evidence that he was connected to the, quote, deliberate premeditated execution of khashoggi. and, remember, the cia concluded back in november that the crowned prince ordered khashoggi's killing and sanctioned 17 saudi arabian officials. last month jared kushner refused to say whether the trump administration would hold the saudi leader accountable for khashoggi's murder. >> the senate has unanimously
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said if mohammad bin salman ordered it, the -- breed of members of the suspect who voted that way, i don't know what the administration is waiting for in terms of accountability. >> i believe that there is a report that they are working on. they have been doing an investigation and when they have the facts of the investigation, then it'll be up to the president to make a determination on what he wants to do. >> joining me now, is a senior contributor at the intercept and the host. since you deconstruct for a living, can you just deconstruct what jared kushner said? when they come to the conclusion of the report they might actually do something. >> nah. they're not going to do anything, ali. the deconstruction of that remark is that even if their investigation -- which, by the way we have had a u.n. investigation, a turkish investigation, but even if they found a photo of him standing over jamal khashoggi with a bloody knife in his hand, they still wouldn't abandon mbs.
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they made it clear for financial reasons they are not going to touch that alliance no matter what comes up. this you would n. report, 100 pages, forensic evidence, is damming about the role, the responsibility of saudi arabia and the individual criminal for the extra judicial killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. >> there is a lot to talk about here because first of all saudi arabia conducts a whole lot of killings within its judicial system that are worthy of discussion. but to the larger point because you like poking holes in the establishment. the establishment, whomever that may be in this country in saudi arabia, in western europe, all over the developed world, thinks that the relationship between the united states and the west and saudi arabia is beneficial for oil, for regional influence reasons. the fact is no one's actually going to upset that apple cart despite jamal khashoggi. >> so, yes, that's partly true.
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there is this belief that the alliance of saudi arabia is good for the west in financial terms, in military terms. but there's a couple of things here. number one, several companies in europe, scandinavian countries have actually said we are not going to sell as many weapons as we did before. we are going to put restrictions both because of what saudi arabia is doing in yemen and because of this extra judicial murder of jamal khashoggi inside the consulate in turkey. and secondly, there is this argument that says, okay okay, said you arabia is your alley, but even if you value that relationship, even if you value it, is mbs the right guy to be running that country? he's proved himself to be reckless, belligerent, cold-blooded and actually incompetent. yemen was supposed to be an easily won war. the blockade on qatar, that was supposed to be a success. it's all been a failure. even the killing of jamal khashoggi was supposed to silence this critique of his role, but it made him a household name globally. >> here's the thing.
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with respect to the constant irritation that is growing into tension between the united states and iran, obviously saudi arabia is an interested party in that. you've got israel and saudi arabia bode poking the bear a little bit. how does that innuance what happens with iran? >> hugely. there's a huge debate as to whether donald trump wants a war with iran. when he was campaigning he claimed he didn't want new wars in the middle east. we know there are multiple factors here. john bolton wants a war. it benjamin netanyahu has been targeting. back in the day said cut the head off the snake, we know thanks to wikileaks documents talking about iran. and, yes, mbs sees the, they want to take down their regional rival. and they want america to fight iran, you know, on their behalf. >> always good it talk to you. thank you. he is a columnist and a senior
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contributor at "the intercept." sully sullenberger, the hero behind the miracle on the hudson shared his experience on the 737 max airliner this morning echoing calls for simulator training of the pilots of the 737 max jets. >> it's critical that pilots, as soon as possible, experience in a full motion level desimulator and not just a task trainer, all the effects of the mcas system and also all the other things that likely have not been trained trainedet either at all or since initial qualification. they need to develop a muscle memory of their experiences so that it'll be immediately accessible to them in the future even years for now, especially things that operate in a counter intuitive way. we must be made aware of it of its complications and implications. we must experience it first hand before we face a crisis with an
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airplane full of passengers and crew. >> the hearing is part of an investigation into design flaws related to boeing's mcas flight software, which was implicated in the fatal crashes of two separate boeing 737 max jets in indonesia and ethiopia. captain sully warned that a failure to address systemic issues and factors means crashes can and will happen here. all boeing 737 max planes have been grounded since march following the two crashes. and we got break news. the u.s. government is wrapping up its investigation into youtube for how the company handles children's videos. that's according to reporting from the washington post which sites four people familiar with the matter. youtube is owned by google. and this investigation is already made the tech giant revult some of its business practices. the reporter who broke the story tony rom joins me now. this is about an algorithm, a guess, that has caused people who are looking at things that are child pornography to then be
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redirected to videos that people have innocently posted about their kids in a bathing suit in a pool or something like that. >> yeah. this all has to do with kids' privacy. for many years now we've heard complaints from consumer advocates and even from some congressional lawmakers that youtube isn't a safe space for kids, that even though youtube has a special site dedicated for people under age 13 that the younger set is using the main youtube website to access videos. so they complain to the federal government and said that youtube was collecting information about kids under 13 in a way that violated long-standing federal law. that's what ultimately set off this investigation by the federal trade commission which could result in a number of penalties against google including some potential fines. >> easy or hard for youtube to fix this? >> that's a really great question. i think this really cuts at two issues. and the first here is that for a long time now, youtube has been aware that people under 13 have been using the site. it's very hard to get people who are that age to stop using
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somethings that as popular as youtube. the second issue though is this broader question about how the al go rhythm works and why you are fed the videos after you watch one thing. and so youtube has put forward a number of solutions using software and other tools that might steer some of this bad stuff away from kids. but the issue here is that it's going to come at great cost to the company. and it may never truly get all those kids off of its site. >> tony, good to see you. tony romm is a senior tech policy reporter at the washington post". what tends to immediately come to mind is privacy, user data, maybe even russian interference into the 2016 election. but what about the other very serious and very troubling, possibly unintended consequences, the ones that don't make headlines or reach congress' radar. a new york times opinion piece warns that when the next pandemic strikes, we'll now be fighting in on two fronts. the first way is what we already do, understanding the disease, researching a cure, and
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inoculating the population. the second, and i'm quoting from the article is new. and one you might not have thought much about. fighting the deluge of rumors, misinformation and flat-out lies that will appear on the internet. we have seen the power of misinformation when it comes to particularly health, particularly with falsities spread by the anti-vaccination community. but there is also the danger being spread with malicious intent "the times" warns it is reasonable to assume that a country would deliberaty spread intentional lies in an attempt to increase death and chaos. joining me to have a closer look at this is roger mcnamie. and an early and current investor in facebook. he is also the author of the new book "zucked," waking up to the facebook catastrophe. you do a lot of thinking about the unintended consequences of things that if we don't understand the dangers of misinformation on the internet,
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this is an instant in which people can die. >> absolutely. and the man who wrote this opinion piece bruce is one of the world's foremost experts on security. he is at the kennedy school of harvard. he is one of the people who i pay closest attention to on all matters of security. and the point that he is raising here is the same issue that underlies a lot of the problems that we have seen with the anti-vax world, that we have seen with election interference, which is the fact that the business model of facebook and of many of the other platforms is designed to amplify content that we engage with. and the most engaging content, sadly, is the stuff that provokes flight or fight so it's going to be hate speech, disinformation, and conspiracy theories, which in the context of a pandemic, means that you have this incredibly great risk that bad actors could put misinformation into the system because facebook and all these other guys treat everything the
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same. a warning about a pandemic or a warning about a nuclear attack is treated the same as a piece of conspiracy theory. and that is just an intolerable situation. we just need to get on top of it. >> so for people who say, hey, we don't know what the russian interference did in terms of the outcome of an election, the pandemic example is really good one because you will know when people require information about something to make a decision as they did in an election, but here it may have to do with health, and they get the wrong information, and then we confront facebook and others about this had and they say, we are just a conduit for information, we don't put our valued judgments on these things, that's where the problem comes in. >> and, ali, that is the part that is demonstrable nonsense. it's not that facebook or youtube -- i mean, this is the same issue that tony romm was just talking about with respect to kids, which is that youtube's not sitting there saying i am going to promote conspiracy theories. what they are saying is we are going to promote the stuff that people engage with most. and the sad truth is that humans
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engage more with things that provoke fear and outrage than they do with things that are factual and teach them. and so as a consequence, you wind up getting this 10, 15, 20-amplification of the 20-x amplification of the worst content. we see examples everywhere. the point bruce's making in this piece is there are contexts where this would be deadly to huge numbers of people at exactly the moment when you need to have facts in the marketplace. he points to specific examples in africa where this has already happened. so we can't sit there and pretend to be surprised if it comes around. >> one of the articles, one of the things it points to is 2014 in nigeria, there was a ebola epidemic. the government contained it to 20 infections and 8 deaths because of the way in which it effectively communicated information about ebola to nigerians using
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government-sponsored video, social media campaigns, international experts. that's the way it works. but can you imagine a way to goes completely the other direction. roger, while i have you here i want to ask you about libra, the currency facebook is developing alongside with the credit card companies and paypal and others. what is your initial thought on this? it's a digital currency, not bitcoin, not using blockchain necessarily. what do you think? >> those are the key points, that this is crypto unlike any other. and that may be a good thing or bad thing. we do not know. it doesn't look like bitcoin. it does not actually use the blockchain. but what you really have to pay attention to the goal of facebook is to create a new reserve currency. they would argue this is really important in emerging countries where the currency doesn't trade well and where people don't have banking relationships. the problem with the whole thing is this is another relationship
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of move fast and break things. there's no evidence that facebook knows how to operate a currency. there is every reason to believe there are real risks. they say hey, you know, they're going to protect your privacy but we have a lot of evidence that says that's not going to be the outcome. >> roger, always good to see you, my friend. thank you very much. early and current investor in facebook and author of "zucked: waking up to the facebook catastrophe." up next, deeper look by the federal reserve to leave interest rates unchanged means for the markets and economy moving forward. there's a lot that needs to get done today. small things. big things. too hard to do alone things. day after day, you need to get it all done. and here to listen and help you through it all is bank of america. with the expertise and know-how you need to reach that blissful state of done-ness. so let's get after it.
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markets are taking stock of the federal reserve's decision to keep rates unchanged for now. let's look at the big board. you can see it's in the green for most of the day and suddenly wasn't. that spike occurred right where the news came out and fed said it's not decreasing or increasing them but keep in mind economic conditions and react accordingly. that's not a huge reaction, by the way, on the market the dow up 66, s&p up 10 and nasdaq up 37 points. what did the fed's decision tell us about the state of the economy and what lies ahead? for that we turn to diane swan, cheev economist and adviser to the federal reserve. i don't know what the answer is, diane. is the question what is the fed telling us about the economy or what is the fed telling us about the degree to which donald
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trump's opinion on interest rates are having an impact on it? >> it's clearly not having an impact on their decision making, which i think is very important. i think chairman powell was very blount when he had the surreal moment he to ask how is he dealing with the idea of a demotion out there that's threatened to him, and he said i know the law and i will serve out my four-year term. i think that's problem he deflected that. i do think it's interesting you have stephen moore out, who could not get on the fed now criticizing the fed. right now as we speak in terms of this, i think what's also important is the fed is gearing up for a rate cut, and the reason they're gearing up for a rate cut is because of the president's actions, not because of his bullying but because of his actions on trade and concerns of what that means for business sentiment. this is a shift for the federal reserve in terms of their mood and how much -- they saw what happened in early may when we saw the threat of mexican tariffs and how quickly things
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can shift and the ground beneath us can shift. the sentiment issue has become a central issue to the fed, along with the fact they admitted, hey, we thought it was transitory slowdown inflation, we like a warm economy. i know everybody likes to think it's too warm but they like a little heat and we have a cool trend for this late in the expansion. zble >> let's look at the rate the fed deals with here, which we're looking at from 2007. you can see as the recession came in, the fed dropped the rates. it's the ammunition the fed has to try to stimulate the economy. they stayed close to zero all the way to 2016 and we sort of see them step up in 2019 and on the right side of the screen, you see it level out. we were expecting more increases in 2019. i want to swap over to the next screen, the prime low. it looks similar to the federate. usually the prime rate is about 3% higher. that's how it affects people who
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have banking relationships. however, now i want to move over to the rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage, the expense a lot of people has. that chart looks different all of a sudden. the 30-year fixed mortgage has not been going up or down with the fed rates, and in fact over the last several years, still been a pretty good deal. >> exactly. one of the main transmission mechanisms, everyone talks about the stock market and all of that kind of stuff and it's a split issue the fed has. the consumer seems to be doing okay and they're worried about a pullback that would undermine the consumer. but the fact people refinance their homes, which they have been doing in droves, and we saw longer-term rates come back down and they locked and loaded on a lower rate. that's very important to the fed. that also is a stimulus transmission mechanism that's much more powerful. >> diane swan, thank you for talking to me, chief economist
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at graham thorton. i will see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. with stephanie and 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in morning. it's a long, long, long way to hope and change and hope and justice but here we are. blocking trump aide hope hick from answering questions about her time in the white house and if our reactions from our reporters are any indication, tiptoed the white house line. >> hope, did the president obstruct justice? is the white house letting you answer any questions today? >> why is the white house limiting your tim so much?

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