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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  June 21, 2019 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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we ran out of time, but my thanks to chuck, david, alexi and tim and to you for watching. "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ if it is friday, president trump sits down with "meet the press" for an exclusive sitdown. revealing just how close he was to striking back at iran. >> so they came and they said sir, we're ready to go, we'd like a decision. i said i want to know something. how many people will be killed?
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and in this case iranians. plus iran if you are listening, he had quite the direct message for the ayatollah. and his surprising response to my question about impeachment. you'll want to hear what he told me on that issue. welcome to friday. welcome to "meet the press" daily. let's dive right into my exclusive interview with the president today at the white house. timing was obviously a bit coincidental, but rhey, a lot t get to. you'll want to hear what he had to say about nancy pelosi's handling of the impeachment. but we begin with the headlines on iran starting with what he revealed when i asked about a zero hour decision not to proceed with military strikes after the iranians targeted and shot down a u.s. vasurveillance.
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>> did you green light something or what was the order you gave? >> nothing is green lighted until the very end because things change. >> so you never gave a final order. >> no, but we had something ready to go subject to my approval. they came in about a half an hour and they said sir, we're about ready to go. i said i want a better -- >> planes in the air? >> no, we're about ready to go. but they would have been pretty soon. and things would have happened to a point where you wouldn't turn back or couldn't turn back. so they came and they said sir, we're ready to go, we'd like a decision. i said i want to know something before you go. how many people will be killed? in this case iranians. i said how many people will be killed. sir, i'd like to get back to you on that. great people these generals. they said -- came back, said sir, approximately 150. and i thought about it for a second. i said you know what, they shot down an unmanned drone, plane, whatever you want to call it.
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and here we are sitting with 150 dead people that would have taken place probably within a half an hour after i said go ahead. and i didn't like it. i didn't think that it was proportionate. >> also in my interview the president sent a direct message that he, trump, wants talks not war. and the president said that he believes that iran targeted and shot down that drone because they want to negotiate. you'll have to digest that one because that is one hell of a way to start a negotiation, right? the president said that he would meet with the iranians no pre-conditions. he also laid out his red lines for the talks. no nuclear weapons, but also no ballistic missiles and more access to nuclear sites for inspection. the president also spoke about the divisions inside his own white house as john bolton is pushing for a more confrontational approach not
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just with iran it seems. so what happens next is the big question, whether this actually brings the iranians to the table remains to be seen, but the president made it quite clear that he wants talks and perhaps he wants these talks badly. a lot to talk about and we have some of the best in the business joining me here onset. andrea mitchell, evelyn farcas, and nick rasmussen. one of the few people who has briefed both presidents obama and trump on sensitive matters of national security. andrea, it was really interesting, those of us working on the presidential side of things saw that he seemed to not the be preparing for this. and your beat, it was nothing but preparation for this. what do you feel like is the truth here? >> i think the president is as
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he says the decider. we got a window first yesterday when he was basically making excuses for the iranians over this drone strike and saying that it was some loose figure basically saying it was a commander out of control, not the regime. and then in your interview making it explicit he started on twitter because then gave a tick tock into his thinking. i've never seen anything quite like that. and frankly, drawing praise today from one of his harshest critics. john brennan for not targeting iranian territory. what i don't think some of the people -- some of the hawks around him fully contemplate and understand under influence from the saudis, emiratis and israelis is just what you are buying in to when you talk iranian territory. this is not iraq, this is not afghanistan. >> it is not an empty airport.
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right. >> these are proxies all over the region if not the world. we are talking even in south america. >> and if john bolton wasn't sure, he should have read peter baker's piece because it says mr. trump has always been a commander in chief of contradictions. he's h he's had adopted modified version of speak loudly and carry a big stick or wave it around without using it much. i'm not sure, we'll never know the answer, i'm not sure he ever wanted to order this stwrik. he certainly wanted the iranians to appear that it was close and he wantses iranians to know that he stopped it. >> and i think can't take at face value what he tweeted yesterday and again this morning. but if i were him, i'd be asking john bolton and other senior advisers, how do you give me a strategy that is not a 24 or 48 hour strategy but a strategy to get the outcome that i want.
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he has a right to be disappointed in his advisors. they are crisis managing. >> if the president's goal is to have talks with the ayatollah or even some sort of negotiation, he is looking for his own moment no doubt, but is this the right way to do it? >> no, because the thing is, iranians are wise to how this president operates. they have seen it do it with kim jung-un in the north korean context. they know the president has a big meeting with pomp and circumstance and there is no end result. the iranians want a real deal. they don't want these sanctions. they are crippling them. we just made them worse which is why they lashed out at us. they want a relief from the sanctions, but they know that will only come from a real deal that not only the united states signs up to, but all 6 our of o allies because the nuclear deal was not just between the united states and iran. >> it was interesting i asked what does this deal look like, and it just feels like the extended version of the deal that is already there. but then he said i want to put
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ballistic missiles in there. is that poison pill? >> not necessarily. but the fact is that john kerry, barack obama decided they wanted that nuclear deal so badly that they would extend the term where iran was months away from getting a weapon. they thought that it was worth it. the world thought it was worth it. it was multilateral to get a one year bandbandwidth. the problem here is that i think the people around the president and the president himself because he is not getting adequate briefings do not understand the iranian mentality. they had to react with the sanctions and with the designation of the revolutionary guard as a terrorist group. unprecedented. >> and correct me if i'm wrong, the pentagon was trying to prevent. why? >> exactly. >> whether wouy would the penta
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against this? >> it would signal that we'd be taking on the entire security apparatus. we had been going after individual leaders that we could peg with specific terrorism activities. it was effective in that regard. it limited travel. but when you label the entirety of the iranian republican guard force as a terrorist organization, that sets the stage for a much wider conflict, one that we're not ready for, one that is not in our interests. >> reciprocity because then they could label our forces. that is why the pentagon would be most alarmed because they could say u.s. forces -- >> it gives them no way out. they need a face-saving way out. and they cannot bow to donald trump. >> it was interesting, i do ask the question candidate trump would have been pretty rough on president trump essentially for drawing a red line and backing out. i mean, i had blash baflashback
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hours where we thought we were going to syria. all of a sudden we walk back. >> this was incredibly damaging to barack obama with the saudis and the rest of the world. >> i was just going to say, that is my question here. the president is a bluffer. tariffs with mexico, shutting down the border. so this isn't a new phenomenon with him. but how is the middle east leader hearing this? >> this is the point at which we find out if there is return on investment for investing in these close relationships with saudi and emirati and other gulf state leaders. on the other hand, those individuals are realists, they have been living in the region a long time so now they have doubts in their mind i would imagine, same kind of doubts that they claim to have had with president obama over syria. so i imagine some repair work will be necessary from the white house end to reach out to those partners and say hey, i'm still with you. >> but they want the united states to be tough on iran, to
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help isolate iran. but they actually don't want war either. >> no, they have an end state but no game plan for getting it. >> and the president did call mbs today and they did talk about all of this. and in the read from the white house, he never raised the issue of the new evidence by -- >> i asked him directly about that. you will see that on sunday. hasn't made a decision yet whether he will let the fbi investigate on that front. >> and i was going to say that they probably wanted some kind of strike, but maybe not one that would escalate the situation. >> so now i assume -- you don't want to make any assumptions, but he's going overseas next week, the g-20. if this strike is off the table now, it sounds like it is off the table for at least a couple week. >> he is meeting with xi, he is meeting with putin. how do you authorize a strike unless it is between now and then, but when the u.s. is now asking for a closed door security council meeting on
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monday, that shortens the window. and we have no u.n. ambassador. in fact the nominee to be the u.n. ambassador had a terrible confirmation hearing in the senate this week. >> is this where pompeo will have to sit in the seat? >> absolutely. >> is so what are the iranians going to do next. would the ayatollah ever agree to one-on-one talks with the president of the united states? >> that is hard to imagine. again, because as evelyn pointed out, they have seen the way this white house looks at s-- >> he wants pageant friday. >> ayatollah wants a straight line from relief of the economic pressure. >> i think that they will double down on their nuclear threats. i think that they will say we will break out because they want the europeans to pressure us to get to the negotiating table which of course is the right policy. >> what i find interesting is how they are try doing it very
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orderly. i guess the point is that they are trying to say they don't want to break out, but they would like to keep some deal together. by the way, are the iranians as divided internally as the president's own team? >> yes. i'm not an expert, but you have hard liners, obviously the foreign ministry types who are interested in negotiating. you have the supreme leader himself. so there are different faskss a factions and hard liners were the ones cheering when they took down the drone. >> and i'm always reluctant of trying to play the game regarding who is arguing what in another's capital. >> we struggle enough in our own. >> and i would briefly say that they have been badly damaged by the nuclear accord. they feel that they got nothing but sanctions from donald trump. so to get them to be able to sit down with our government --
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>> they would be digging out of a hole to get there. >> there have been feelers, but not picked up by people around the president. >> thank you both. appreciate it. up ahead, we'll have more this hour from my exclusive interview with the president. you will want to hear what he had to say about impeachment and nancy pelosi especially as today more democrats joined the pro impeachment caucus. and you can see much more, just about all of it, there is a lot of it, trust me, my exclusive sitdown with the president this weekend on "meet the press," this sunday on your local nbc station. station. you try hard, you eat right... mostly. you make time... when you can. but sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just won't go away. coolsculpting takes you further. a non-surgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells, for good. discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. some common side-effects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. don't imagine results, see them.
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and i thought about it and i said they shut doot down and und drone, plane, whatever you want to call it, and here we are sitting with 150 dead people that would have taken place probably within a half an hour after i said go ahead. and i didn't like it.
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i didn't think that it was -- i didn't think that it was proportionate. >> welcome back. that was president trump explaining to me his decision to making -- for calling off the military strike on iran last night. obviously the political reverberations could be with us for some time. here to dive into the politics, andrea mitchell still with me, also shawna thomas, brad todd, and stephanie cutter. a former west wing staffer for president obama and president clinton. welcome all. the politics of this. brad, there have been a lot of republicans, tom cotton probably not a happy man today, but rand paul is a really happy person today. political fallout on the right from this? >> i think the president's ideology begins with within word and that is strength. i don't think that will change anytime soon. it took ronald reagan 3 1/2
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years of watching a tax on ship management straits of hormuz before he took action. so i don't think anybody believes that the last 24 hours means that president has stopped caring about what happens in iran. and i think the hawks in the republican party will give him the ben fifth did you tell, understand that the president still made clear that the main objective is denying the nuclear weapons program and i think that they will trust him to follow through on that. >> in our nbc wail stre"wall st poll, he has never going outside of 46 except one time, right after the summit with kim jung-un. not attacking can be good politics depending on how you do it. >> absolutely. i think if you can demonstrate good judgment, good policymaking, strength in understanding what the issues are. i'm not sure that is what this last 24 hours has demonstrated. the fact that it got so far before he even asked about casualties, he asked for this attack and then pulled back from this once he realized the
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casualty -- >> the ramifications. >> the ramifications to our own security and to our economy. and i think the fact that it got as far as it did before those questions were asked is a big problem. you know, i've been -- i wasn't part of the national security team, but our policymaking process was thorough. these conversations happened as part of a team. we had a secretary of defense. >> but it was a pretty -- there was an -- you guys took heat when you walked the country to the line with syria and then the famous south lawn walk to call it off. >> absolutely. >> that does have negative consequences. >> it does. but we also didn't have president tweeting out in real time during the day with basically bullying and threatening. >> the difference is most swing voters worry that democrat presidents will be too weak on foreign policy and they worry
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that republican presidents will be too hawkish. so the obama administration suffered when swing voters thought they were too weak. trump stands to benefit if they think he is cautious. he worries about swing voter republicans and also jacksonians in his base who have an isolationist strength. i think this may have helped him with both groups. >> i think in isolation you're right. i think what doesn't help him is to look so erratic. and undisciplined. >> and so what are the unintended consequences. he is a bluffer. yes, he followings through every once in a while, so you never know. but it does seem as he is developing a reputation around that world leaders know don't take everything at face value. >> that is the unintended consequences, foreign policy, their allies still didn't know what he will do so they hang back. and we saw that when the ships were mined in the straigt of
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hormuz that they didn't want to quite go along with the united states of america on what we were saying happened there because they do not know who is actually in charge and they do not know who is running our foreign policy our our defense really. so the unintended consequence is wider. but i can hear a sigh of relief from republicans on the hill today i think. because senator jim rich took to the floor yesterday and basically was like nobody wants to go to war with iran. let's got that. americans didn't want to go to war with iran. as to i think that he gave a little bit of a political win did he of a gift -- a window of to the republicans on the hill. >> republican suburban women who might have been open to a more centrist democratic candidate, i think for them this is relief. showing some judgment, pushing back against hard liners, but to your point about the allies, one of the things that he did that was so disturbing and destructive in the nato meeting
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in brussels was to walk in and challenge article v which has already been used once after 9/11 where the allies all came to our support in afghanistan against al qaeda. and he is not going to get the kind of response at the united nations that he otherwise would have if he were a more consistent partner. >> and this won't surprise somebody perhaps with the last name of cheney, but liz cheney was not a big fan of what the president did. i want to put up what i think she told cnn. i'll wait to see additional information on it, but i think that it is important that people recognize that the united states is going to keep its word and in the go down the path that president obama went down. by the way, bizarre tweet by mcdaniel saying if ballistic missile had called off air strikes -- i'm like obama did call off air strike. so i think she needs a history lesson. but anyway, brad, is liz cheney
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actually the minority in the republican party these days given what we just heard about relief? >> the republican party is a bradd er broader tent. i think there is a consensus on strength and willingness to disregard the more weaker minded allies. i think there is a consensus that iran didn't need a nuclear weapon, that the president should respond in kind when provoked. so i think on those things, yes, there is a consensus. does that mean every single tactic will have agreement? no, that is not the case. >> but also what is in-kind when they shoot down a drone that was unmanned. secretary pompeo in some ways set a red line that he wanted -- that queld respond this kind if measures were hurt. americans weren't hurt. and i think that went into this discussion over the last 24 hours. >> president seems to imply that in his conversation with you. the potential for casualties he says was the decider.
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>> how would you respond to the democratic candidates? nancy pelosi criticizes the process but says i'm glad it didn't happen. we may hear from joe biden later today i'm told. >> i think that you will hear that had the president not withdrawn from the iran nuclear deal, we wouldn't have gotten to this place. if he hadn't cut off the united states from the rest of the world, we wouldn't have gotten to this place. open lines of communication where it didn't have to riz to such a security threat. and in terms of whether there should be proportionate response, i don't think any democrat would not want proportionate response. and we've gldemonstrated that i the past. but we do want a responsible foreign policy where there is good judgment, there is a real team in place, and you are not tweeting out showing that you are the bully on the playground. >> and lindsey graham has a tweet out where he is trying to create a new red line for the
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president. an degree andrea, what will the world's response be if iran follows through on their threat to restart nuclear enrichment? i hope the united states will make this a red line. so interesting that he is requesting a red line via twitter. >> and of course iran is threatening do exactly that. restart nuclear enrichment beyond the -- >> but the way they are doing it is in an orderly way. they seem to be like we will do this -- >> civil disobedience. >> do you think they want talks? >> i do think they want talks. >> who do they want it with? >> probably at the diplomatic level. >> they didn't want president trump. >> no, i don't think that they can -- well, i shouldn't speak for the iranians. i interviewed the iranians. i've been there. but i can't speak for the dynamics in that country as none of us can. but i do think that they want
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some sort of track and programs throu -- perhaps through a european intermediary. the japanese prime minister was there. there are plenty of people who can at the leaders' level who can provide some kind of window for -- >> i was going to say the amount of back channels that exist are quite numerous. >> i don't think increasing sanctions pressure will lead to talks. >> but the thing that all of this would need is what is our clear policy when it comes to iran. and that list of things that pompeo put out last year a lot of those are full-on nonstarters for the iranians. so this is one thing that i talked to david pa twetraeus ab today. he was like the next step is what do we want to achieve, what is it achievable and how do we do that. >> the president said his goal is a new nuclear deal that is
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longer thanes last o the last o includes ballistic missiles. how do you do it? >> you have to get -- >> can you have john bolton as your national security adviser if that is your goal? >> hard to imagine. but i don't think that it can be bilateral. because they have seen the u.s. walk away from a six party deal that was ratified by the united nations. they are going to have other players and buy-in and that is not donald trump's style. >> i don't think that you will get a deal that is in the bilateral in this administration. or with a republican president at anytime in the near future. i think the days of multiparty deals and trusting europe as a partner to trim our sails is not possible with a republican coalition. >> so should he be talking back to the russia? they were part of the jopca and we know our president likes talking to putin. perhaps putin -- >> he has meetings with both xi and putin. anyway, stick around.
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later this hour we'll be talking about this, the president's surprising view on impeachment. more from my sitdown that will be on "meet the press" this sunday. ess" this sunday (woman) when you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. (vo) align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets 24/7. (woman) so where you go, the pro goes. (vo) go with align. the pros in digestive health. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish.
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maybe a petting zoo. can't go wrong. can't get eaten. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year. plus no annual fee or blackouts. the discover it® miles card. welcome back. more now from my sitdown with president trump, this on the issue of impeachment nancy pelosi continues to impose pursuing impeachment inquiry despite more members causing for an inquiry. we headed three more democrats
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to this list today bringing the list to 74 plus one republican. i asked doctor he thisask why h would benefit him or not. >> why do you think nancy pelosi has held off her impeachment caucus in. >> because i think that she feels i would win much easier. >> do you think it is good politics for you? >> i think i win the election easier, but i'm not sure that i like having it -- lack, i did nothing wrong. i was spied on. what they did was illegal on the other side. i did nothing wrong. so impeachment is a very unfair thing because nothing that i did was wrong. and if you look at the mueller report, there was no collusion. this was all about collusion. >> you say no collusion. there is not a -- i've read the mueller report both parts. there is not one place that says nothing happened. >> use the word collusion, use the word conspiracy. i'll be honest, nobody even
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mentions russia anymore since the russia report in all fairness. >> we spent a lot more time on the mule remembeller report and see more on "meet the press" this sunday morning on your local nbc station. but coming up next here, i will be joined by a member of congress who supports an impeachment inquiry. t inquiry. when crabe stronger...strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. layered with flavor... it's the first and only coated nicotine lozenge.
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welcome back. you heard president trump says he believes impeachment could help his re-election hopes. with me now is madeline dean hou member of the house judiciary committee who supports an impeachment inquiry. congresswoman, first of all, what did you make of the president's assessment there that he believes speaker pelosi's hesitance is all about in helping him politically? >> i just certainly don't agree with about 16 statements in that short clip that you just played. let me start with nobody in this
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country wants to take this country through impeachment and i'm sure that is part of the lens through which the speak are holds her responsibility. as you mentioned, i have asked for, called for an impeachment inquiry at the point that don mcgahn failed to answer a lawful subpoena. but the president thinking about it in terms of a political calculation or helping him win re-election, who would want to win re-election for the presidency on the damning evidence that is contained within the mueller report? i can't imagine it. if i do just comment on the collusion piece -- >> yes, i know. i almost got to the point of show me the page. >> page two. >> there is no -- on the report that says no collusion, that was my point to him. >> and if the president had taken the time to read into as far as page two, mr. mueller spells out very clearly that the purpose of his investigation was not to look for collusion because that is not a legally chargeable thing.
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so this boastfulness the thousand times we've heard no collusion is a hollow call. >> he actually has a red hat in his side office that says the words no collusion. i guess he is trying to brand it. i am curious, why do you think a majority of judiciary committee democrats are ready for impeachment but a majority of all democrats aren't? >> i've really had some time to think about that. i'm so honored to be serving on the juidiciary committee and i think that it is utterly appreciate that we who are on the front line of this oversight and on the front line of the review of the mueller report are coming forward to inform our caucus, to inform the congress, that what we have seen and what we've experienced with for example the false interview of hope hicks yesterday, we have to report the gravity of the wrongdoing. so i think that it is utterly
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important that more and more of us on judiciary are reporting it our colleagues that it is time to open an impeachment inquiry. >> you brought up the hope hicks testimony. she showed up, don mcgahn didn't. explain that. >> i can't explain that frankly. but i will tell you from being inside the room for part of that testimony by ms. hicks, it was very weak. it was a very weak performance. half because there was at least 155 times that she followed the instruction of deputy attorneys for the white house and her own personal counsel who are paid by the rnc not to answer questions. i think that that was probably more revealing than the questions she did answer. on the questions that she did answer, she couldn't remember an awful lot. when i asked her specifically about her work as press secretary, how many contacts did you have with russia or russian officials, she said she thought
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none and she said she was very surprised to learn that somebody told her volume one actually spelled out more than 100 contacts with russia. so there was a vacancy to the testimony that we got from ms. hicks. >> i am curious, why do you think she chose to show up though? do you get a sense that this is step one that maybe she wants to cooperate but she's going to abide by what the white house says for now? i mean, don mcgahn didn't even take that step. that is why i'm curious, does that at all make you think that we probably ought to keep her number close because maybe we want to call her back? >> i hope that we will call her back and obviously we put on the record the claim of a blanket immunity which will not hold up in court. i hope you're right. i hope that it is that she recognize that had she has a duty as a citizen. i think there is also a difference in the work that she was doing versus don mcgahn. don mcgahn was personal counsel
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to the president. so i could see why there would be some distinction. in either event, we have law enforcement subpoenas so these citizens need to come forward and respond truthfully to lawful subpoenas. as i explained, we're just looking for the facts. >> chairman nadler seemed to think that the testimony of hope hicks will help you in court. explain. >> i think that it will help because as i said, on the record very early on where dozens and dozens and dozens of objections by counsel for the white house of a blanket immunity, which simply will not be supported by the rule of law by precedent and will not be upheld in court, what that gives us the opportunity to do is have the court say she must come back and actually respond to those questions. so that is a -- small progress, but it is a step in the right direction. >> what is the next step? >> the next step is to continue to go to court. i hope that we will have special counsel mueller before us.
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we have -- >> when do we think that happens? i have to say, part of me can't believe that we're about to get to the end of june, which means that we will hit the fourth of july recess before we know it. sounds like we might not see mr. mueller until the fall. am i too pessimistic there? >> i hope that is not so. i know that the conversations continue between our judiciary committee and the special counsel now in his private life. and i also know as you know the intelligence committee is speaking with special counsel. so we hope that he will come forward. again, i feel like special counsel mueller feels a duty to come forward. you saw how he spoke for eight minutes on his way out the door into his private life. i think that was a remarkable pivot, a thing that he never would have wanted to do if it weren't for the mischaracterization and public confusion caused by this administration and attorney general barr. the president just said in that clip you play that had mob is talking about russia anymore. that couldn't be farther from the truth. we know that in volume one
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special counsel pointed out sweeping systemic multiple, multiple contacts and interference with the 2016 election in dramatic ways. we just had a hearing yesterday about review of the mill muelle report in judiciary and the experts there point out to us the gravity of that interference. and that that continues 24/7. and will be a part of our 2020 election unless we in congress and this administration call a halt to it and actually do everything in our power to stop it. let's make sure that was an aberration. we'll see. >> he meet with putin next week. i asked if he would tell them not to interfere. and i didn't get the most direct
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answer. >> i'll look forward to seeing your interview. >> congresswoman, thanks very much. we'll have much more of my sitdown with the president coming up, but a quick programming note, joy reid and al sharpton are live tomorrow from the democratic party convention. you will see kamala harris talk with joy live at 10:00 a.m. and former president joe biden joins reverend sharp ton on poton on nation" at 5:00. all of that exclusive msnbc saturday. wow!
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welcome back. we've covered a lot this hour. thousand ti now time to break it all down. stephanie, impeachment politics good for president trump? what did you think of that answer? >> for the base that he is trying to rally -- >> you buy it? >> i think it would be good for his base. any persecution of donald trump for hit lims limited base is no enough to win the popular vote and likely in the environment of 2020 will even win him eelectric electoral college vet. but for the people that he is trying to rally, anytime that he is persecuted, it is a rallying crime. >> if nancy pelosi thought it was good politics, she would have done it already. >> right, but i think that -- finish your sentence.
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i don't want to interrupt you. >> she knows it is good politics inside the house democratic caucus. and she knows it is not good politics for the general election. democrats who are on the democr the firing line in true swing zrings are running as far as they can. the progressives and liberals can't afford avoid going to it even if it's bad politics. >> except for katie portner orange county. >> it is growing in the caucus outside of the people in safe districts. >> it's a slower growth, it was a slower growth than i thought mueller was going to open the floodgates and it didn't. >> that's a testament to nancy pelosi and strength that have caucus. i do think that every time a witness goes up there and stonewalls it becomes more and more of a strengthening of the spine for people impeachment is the only way they'll get the information. it cuts both ways on politics for democrats. just like it does for
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republicans. so for the base, great, but for the massive middle of this country, they don't want to the go through that. they don't want further division in this country. >> i don't believe the president that he embraces it. he doesn't want it. >> he has no other option to say that. >> careful what you wish for. you have no idea how it plays. >> also, he doesn't like to lose. so impeachment means, if it went forward, he would be impeached by the house of representatives. there are enough democrats to do that even if he's not removed. other thing interesting about this is that there's just -- people have made up their minds already. i'm sorry. william barr, i keep almost saying bob barr, an president trump as well as two years of basic silence which we needed to actually conduct this investigation, have set the bar for what are people think about this already. so his base he can talk about it. they like it, it fires them up.
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people on progressive side can talk about it, it fires them up the idea after impeaching this president. in the end people have figured out what they believe. >> all these people stonewalling aretriti on television. long-term they'll go to court and maybe a couple years from now they'll get a decision. right now, they don't have the movie, they don't have the -- >> i think there's another dynamic at play. and i'm sure that's not as sexy to talk about. there are lots of members of congress who believe it is their constitutional duty to impeach him, that he clearly has done something wrong here. if the mueller report wasn't indication enough, point to any number of other things. it is their constitutional duty as the third branch of government to perform that exercise to impeach a president for high crimes and
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misdemeanors. you're right, people have already made up their minds on donald trump whether he's guilty or not guilty. there is a role for congress to play in getting to the bottom of it. so far we haven't gotten to the bottom of it. >> is there a point where the president pays a price for the lack of cooperation with congress. >> no, because congress has not offered any olive branches to trump. neither one of them are cooperating. i don't think there's any price to be paid because they don't think the democrats in the house are honest brokers. i think bob mueller was a different situation because he was an independent prosecutor, especially counsel. i think a lot of independents felt like give him a shot, see what he reports. the house democrats are not seen as honest brokers at all. >> you it adds to his grievance campaign, the victim that many donald trump claims he is. if you look at that opening rally other than going after hillary, it was all they're out to get me and.
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>> you from the moment the impeachment process starts, the entire rest of the campaign is they're trying to get me and i'm trying to help you. it's a simple campaign for donald trump. >> i had an interesting conversation about i said after watching your announcement speech, sounds like you want to run against hillary clinton again. and he was like oh, no, no, i think biden would be easier than hillary. some ways i'm not surprised by that answer. stephanie, what did you make -- i watched that re-election announcement and i thought should democrats put up joe biden? because he seems to be prepared to run the same -- he can run the same race against biden that he did against clinton. is that a good idea. >> why do you say he can run the same race. >> he wants to run the establishment, been in politics. he gets to run a similar race. is that smart or not? >> i also think that it will be a pretty stark choice putting 2016 aside, you know, every election has its own political
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circumstances. in 2020 we have four years of donald trump and we know what he's about. it's hard for him to say that he's the disrupter. >> you don't think he can run as an outsider again. >> he's not an outsider. and an case is easy to make. >> is biden outsider enough? >> i don't think that -- i don't think that biden is going to run as 0 outsial outsider. we know somebody who could bring this country together, that can provide security for this country, lead us forward, bring us back to better days. so you know, he's not going to be running that same race that hillary ran. he's not going to be running as a change agent. if he is, it's the change agent from the four years that are this country just went through and the four years of chaos. >> shan. thomas, i was previewing fact that biden is doing a rare television interview. he doesn't do many. he happens to have reverend al sharpton this weekend down in south carolina. it's fascinating me that you're seeing a generational divide
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among african-americans how the president did. curious about your thought about that. >> yeah, you mean how joe biden is doing. >> yes. >> the thing about joe biden is that one, it's easy to kind of okay, it's easy to kind of remember what it was like to be with barack obama and the barack obama thing, we saw this on the campaign trail in iowa. he reminds us of barack obama. that is powerful in the black community. >> jim clyburn, john lewis sticking up for him. we went a little bit long but not every day you get the president. we'll be right back. y day you g president. we'll be right back. so should . virtual wallet from pnc bank. just one way pnc is modernizing banking to help make things easier. pnc bank. make today the day.
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quick reminder see my exclusive sit down on "meet the press" this sunday with president trump. i don't think there's a subject we didn't touch. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> one question, we'll get into all the substance of it. you have a big interview like this. what did you learn, what do you take from it sitting as you have with other presidents with the president of the united states with all the stuff going on. >> look, i had interviewed him during the campaigns a lot. this is the first time i've had him as president on the record. what's amazing was and i thought today which told me a lot about his decision making with iran. he's -- i think he loved the fact that his decision surprised a lot of people. i think it was a

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