tv Democratic Candidates Debate Post- Debate Analysis MSNBC June 26, 2019 8:00pm-10:00pm PDT
democratic debate from miami. for savannah, jose, chuck, and rachel i'm lester holt. have a good night, everyone. [ applause ] ♪ at the stroke of 11:00 p.m. on the east coast we are back with you from our studios in new york. we're going to attempt wherever possible to stay in that room. and these pictures of the relationships that may have been frayed during the debate, may have blossomed during the debate. but how the candidates relate to each other and members of the media. brian williams here with you. nicolle wallace is here taking feverish notes. lawrence o'donnell has joined our panel. former senator claire mccaskill. and eugene robinson remains with
us. let's not forget chris matthews across in the spin room. all these candidates you see now after greetings with well wishers will be headed maybe with one or two exceptions to the spin room. as new york city mayor bill de blasio is working the refs after the game. nicolle wallace, i think a boisterous discussion got through tonight despite some signal interruptions and some audio problems which we obviously apologize for. >> yeah. listen, off to the races, right? and i think that this field showed them -- when they broke into spanish, when they debated the intricacies of policy, when they kept it on what they were for and didn't end up downtown rabbit hole of what they were against. when jay inslee had that sharp answer with the greatest threat to the country and the world was and came out with donald trump. i mean, together as a field they
strung together an incredible story about what is possible if donald trump isn't re-elected to a second term. and really, it's up to democrats in terms of who people are hungering for the most. people like claire probably know the answer to that better than me. >> senator, as someone who's been in the arena of the u.s. senate i noticed the copious notes you were taking. >> yeah. i think overall i was surprised how little there was a discussion of the mess in the white house right now. i was shocked that more candidates didn't tie their policies into the ineptitude, the chaos, the horrible things this president has done. and it really was a little surprising to me because i think most democrats, while they want to hear policy and they want to get to know these candidates, they also want to be reassured that we are united, that those candidates are united in terms of donald trump. so that surprised me a little.
i thought the folks on the end did their best to elbow in to every discussion they could. i found it mildly irritating at times. maybe it's just de blasio's mildly irritating to me. i'm not sure. >> yeah. >> or maybe even more than mildly irritating to me. >> you seem pretty irritated. >> i had the same reaction. i think that might break down along gender -- he sounded to me like sort of an obnoxious guy at a restaurant or a bar talking really loudly on his cell phone, like everyone wants to hear what he's saying. i wanted to hear other people's answers and he kept cutting in. >> clearly his tactic just to -- he was the first to butt in. i mean, the absence of trump in this discussion actually surprised me a lot. i thought -- >> almost he who will not be mentioned. >> exactly. it was like lord voldemort. you couldn't say his name. whereas for a lot of people in the country that is the main issue. i thought maybe looking at the
individual candidates, you know, cory booker has a presence and a voice and -- i thought he did himself some good potentially. beto o'rourke i thought did not have a good evening. his answers to me were mushy. and it was hard to grasp anything in them. jew julian castro was very strong on the details of immigration policy. prodded the others to be more specific. but i think elizabeth warren will be happy at the end. she got a lot of attention, especially during the first hour. i thought -- i mean, look, she's the clear leader among this ten. and i didn't really think a glove was laid on her by the others. >> elizabeth warren actually had some long stretches of silence
during the immigration debate, and it wasn't her choice. it's just that it went on without her and moderators were handlingi handing it to other people. and also during the climate change debate, two of the most important things, she had -- i don't think she had almost any opportunity in there. one of the things that's -- that drives the observation that they didn't talk about donald trump very much is that most if not all of those candidates would be running for president tonight if someone else was the republican president. if we had a republican president bush. and so these are actual -- actually positive candidacies that would be running no matter who was in the white house, no matter what republican was in the white house. but it does seem like there was some kind of conscious decision made to basically try to advance their candidacies as much as they could without the use of the word "trump." and here's why that might be a kind of good experience for
democratic primary voters. they actually got a couple of hours of concentrating on what government and the white house and the presidency would sound like after trump. and after trump they will not be talk about donald trump. >> nicolle wallace, as someone who's worked in politics, i ask you this. i noticed about midway through the evening there is a way of answering questions that is anecdotal. and that man right there, beto o'rourke, in all the answers i heard started with an anecdote. it can hamstring you into following that style, and it can sometimes allow you to seem less than sincere if you are preloaded with the name of the 27-year-old man you met along the rio grande and so on and so on. >> you know, i've interviewed him, and my sense in talking to him is that it's genuine, that this is how he in his mind
organizes policy conversations, that they're organized around, you know, conversations he's had on the campaign trail. at this point with 25 people running, i think it's like a platter. it may not be for everyone. it may not have sung for gene. but i'm not in any position -- no one's voting for many, many, many, many moons. and these guys are going to rise and fall not necessarily based just on what people liked and didn't like about the way they answered questions tonight but on the miles that they log on their, you know, commercial flights at this point. no one's flying private except donald trump and we're paying for that plane. we talked about this earlier. this is the beginning of a story that they begin to tell. i mean, just as an observer to this party's process i thought that senator klobuchar stood out. she was distinct from a policy perspective. her answers were not the same as the ones that the others gave.
and i thought her style was very folksy. and again, if you're looking for someone who donald trump, part of the reason that republicans went for him was that he talked like they did, he wasn't elite. amy klobuchar seemed very intellectually accessible but also to have very well thought out, well-formed thoughtful policies that didn't sound like everybody else. >> beto o'rourke also had one other unique distinction tonight. he was the only one who was a target. julian castro went right after him on one issue, and it seemed like the only strategic decision that i felt i could see in this tonight was that julian castro was going after whatever the beto o'rourke vote is and whatever that following is. this was texas versus texas, and he went straight at them. >> chris matthews, i'd like to begin with you by asking you about congressman ryan of ohio. for people who make a living watching politics he's been an
interesting case because he challenged, later thought better of it, nancy pelosi for the speakership. but also tonight he echoed talking points i have heard from you, talking about pennsylvanians. ryan from the neighboring and similar state of ohio talking about the language of actual people and not the elitism that he labeled -- he used to label the democratic party. >> well, it was a strong suit for him, brian. he was talking about the kind of people in ohio and across the industrial midwest who voted for donald trump. with their sense of cultural alienation, the sense that they're overlooked, discarded by a party that seems to celebrate itself as a coastal party of highly educated people. he said ivy leaguers. i think he was talking about a broader sense than that of people who just thought they're much better than the people that they say they want to represent.
i think he caught it and no one else did. i thought that was right. i think the winner tonight, though, was probably joe biden because to quote sherlock holmes the dog wasn't barking tonight. no one took on the democratic front-runner the whole two hours. and i think that's a big surprise. anybody would have expected that. i thought that senator warren was consistently the populist. she never changed her tone regardless of the question. she talked about big power and economics and how she was going to break it up. she was the teddy roosevelt candidate tonight and seven or eight answers was always regardless of the question she talked about we've got to bring down the big shots and open up american business to the little people. i thought it was powerful stuff. everyone else had a pretty good line. gabbard was the only one to talk about the neocons and the john boltons and people like that and pompeo taking us into another war perhaps. i thought if julian castro spoke from his heart as the only
latino up there he was powerful in talking about the biggest news story of the day, which of course is that father and daughter lying dead in the rio grande. i thought that booker was good but he was sort of just one note, mondayochromatic. he didn't get a chance to show his rich personality. i thought de blasio was surprisingly a heavyweight tonight. he entered the national debate coming from new york city and joining right in with the national debate about war and peace and the big issues. i was really impressed with de blasio tonight. >> to lawrence o'donnell. maybe you want to take a roundhouse swing at this. for viewers watching tonight for whom some of these candidates are new faces and new
names, explain the candidacy of one tulsi gabbard of hawaii. army vet. a major in the army national guard. a member of congress.
what should we know about tulsi gabbard? >> well, i must say, she used her military experience really well on the stage and very, very effectively. and she's one of the people like bill de blasio who basically was telling america for the very first time tonight that she's running for president. i mean, let's just face it. most people had no idea who she was at the beginning of that debate. and that's true of maybe about half of the people who were on that stage. and so she had the same job that de blasio has. de blasio simply seized the microphone to try to let people know he's running for president. and she hung in there i think very solidly all the way through the debate on every issue that came her way. >> what are the rumors about her ties to or sympathies toward putin and russia? is that -- >> that's odd. she went to
meet with assad. >> is it conspiraciy theories? is it investigative reporting? what is her baggage, her political baggage? >> well, that's one of the things people talk about.
and it's a difficult issue for her. she has said that the reason she talked to assad is that this is a very important region in the world and she was trying to see, you know, what might be possible there. her best line of defense on that is to harken back to when barack obama said he'd be willing to talk to iran, he'd be willing to talk to north korea without possible preconditions. and there's always that -- >> now trump's position. >> yeah. so there is always that tension of talking to the evildoer in the world. that's going to follow her around. that is not a muted issue yet. >> steve kornacki over at the board with some observations on tonight for us. steve? >> yeah. i thought there was a very interesting moment early on in this debate. it was the moment that involved the two texas candidates, julian castro and beto o'rourke. and i did wonder, the thought occurred to me watching that it's almost a two ships passing in the night moment that we
experienced there. you think back to the start of this campaign. beto o'rourke came in with massive expectations. he was in double digits in the initial polling. this is a senate candidate last year who captured national attention, who captured attention who's normally reserved for presidential candidates, who raised money last year that you normally only see presidential candidates run a race. so he came in with immense expectations. and we've seen him over the last few months only decline in polling. so he came into tonight i think really needing to prove something. and i mentioned castro in the same breath and that exchange in the same breath because i think castro is the candidate who really typifies the candidate who's been lost in the shuffle so far in this race. hasn't been talked about that much. remember, he was a keynote speaker at the 2012 convention for the democrats. and i thought in that exchange when castro basically told o'rourke he didn't know what he was talking about, not sure o'rourke had an answer to that. >> down to chris matthews in the spin room with the mayor of new york. >> i've got the mayor of new york here, brian. bill de blasio. i thought you punched above your
weight tonight. i think you got into the fight. i thought it was important you that and tulsi gabbard, the congresswoman from hawaii, were very good at bringing up the issue of war and peace. because that has been a concern of most of my friends on the progressive front ever since we got into that stupid war in iraq. >> and chris, we haven't learned our lesson. i mean, ten minutes away from war with iran. ten minutes away. and i wanted people to understand for me it's very personal and i think for so many americans. and look, i watched my dad suffer from the battle of okinawa for decades thereafter. and the whole family was affected. and our family ended up broken up and he ended up taking his own life. >> and that was the good war. >> that was the good war. but he didn't get the support we needed even with all the good we gave to our world war ii vets he didn't get the help. you know what's happening to the young people coming back from iraq and afghanistan. so how do we not learn the lesson? and after vietnam we said war powers act, we're going to let congress decide, there's going to be a debate. but donald trump was ten minutes away from make the decision --
>> let's talk about your own party and then i'll get to the progressive issues. the other progressive issues. joe biden supported the iraq war. >> yep. >> hillary clinton supported the iraq war. john kerry. why did all those smart people, best and brightest, support a stupid war? >> because -- >> they're all democrats. >> and he i think it's the same problem you started to see on the stage tonight on some other issues. democrats being afraid to be democrats, being afraid to be progressives, afraid to say yeah, we're different, we are not the party of war. we're perfectly clear about national security. we will protect our people. but that doesn't mean getting into every war ha comes along and being reckless about it. i feel like democrats for decades have been ashamed to be democrats too often and have been scared of their own shadows. i think tonight is an opportunity for us to start to figure out who we are. and this whole campaign i say let's get back to our roots. we're supposed to be the party of working people. >> let's bring it home to new york. you represent the world's great financial capital, new york, and wall street. how do you take on wall street? senator warren talked about it tonight. she was challenged i guess from other people. but what's a progressive going
to do to fix our system where the 1% make it all? >> repeal the trump tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations. raise that tax rate up to the dwight eisenhower levels. 70% or more. that was when this country was actually working in so many more ways and there was some kind of shared prosperity. and real regulation of wall street. not watered down dodd frank. make it stronger. >> how do you win a race like that when trump has the till out there from billions of dollars in advertising next year to make his case to protect him and his point of view and interest from people like you and senator warren? they're going to spend every dime they can to stop you guys. >> i believe you're absolutely right. but there's absolutely no question we have a working majority in america if we can excite it. think about who stayed home in -- >> are you really in this race? >> yes, sir. >> i thought tonight for the first time, i'm being blunt, i thought you were in this fight for real, not just one of the guys at the end of the row. are you going to get to the
center? when are you going to get to the center of this fight? >> i started as an underdog literally for every election including mayor of new york city and i worked my way to that center and then one day i was ahead. that's what i have to do here. i've done it myself -- >> i believe in you tonight. i think you got in the fight. thank you. stay in. good luck. >> you know. >> thank you. the mayor of new york, bill de blasio. thank you. >> thank you, chris. >> thank you, brian. >> we'll take it back here. i know you're about to interview senator klobuchar. nicolle, to a lot of people the only problem with a de blasio candidacy is a close look at his constituency here in new york. >> yeah. he may have built a constituency tonight. i didn't -- my performance notes were more -- i was more attracted to when klobuchar jumped in and said there are three women on the stage that have done a lot more for women, to protect women's reproductive health care than any man. but these are -- this is so personal. there isn't a single objective
analysis. and the poo-poo platter means there's something for everyone. we're talking about their performances. the good news is that everyone had a moment. and everyone in some way was running against their own baseline from which they started. everyone can probably say they grew from where they were and i think some people won't like beto's style. i thought he told good stories. and if you like, that if you go to his events it's probably why you go. so it's really hard to sort of offer one objective analysis of who sang and who flopped. claire and i were brute'll to de blasio. chris thought it was really exciting. >> is it a new york thing, claire? do you have to be from new york to like bill de blasio? >> then -- >> a lot of cab drivers and uber drivers. and they are not fans. those are my focused groups. let's get back to the fact they
not only did not take on trump, none of them took on the top three. none of them took on elizabeth warren. none of them took on joe biden and none of them took on bernie sanders. >> that gets back to chris's first point which we're going to return to but senator klobuchar has now been seated next to chris. chris? not yet. we're very close. >> she had a great night. i mean -- >> she did have a great night. >> i think in presentation and in just being someone different, she had something unique to say. >> lawrence, i really wish you'd been along with me for my walk home from work in new york city. we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> chris does have a point, though. it was an obvious tactic of de blasio's. it was pushy. but he did -- he got noticed. >> the question was did he teach someone in tomorrow night's debate to steal that maneuver? the jump in from the -- are we
going to see that tomorrow night? >> probably. >> and who's it going to be? >> and speaking spanish. >> okay. now i'm told the senator from minnesota is with the anchorman from pennsylvania. >> thank you so much. you know what i was struck tonight by, the people out there, true backgrounds and true identities as human beings showed the best passion. and it's always dangerous for men to be talking about reproductive rights. sort of a different role there. but when you jumped into that, i think the audience went right for you. >> i listened to so many candidates keep saying i'm the only one on the stage, i'm the only one on the stage. and when the governor, i love the work he's doing on climate change but when he comes out and says i'm the only one on the stage that's led on reproductive rights i literally looked at the other-two other women on the starnlgs at elizabeth and tulsi, and that's when i said, there's three women on the stage that have done something on this too. >> what did you think of the proportion of questions and discussions? there's a lot on the border, a lot on health care, very little on foreign policy. very little on women's rights
and women's reproductive rights. >> way i looked at it, of course, when you're standing up there and there were so many people you just want to jump into everything. i would have loved to talk about election issues and russia. i would have loved to talk about the farm economy. but i literally had to sit back and say this is the first debate. there's going to be many more debates. we're going to have opportunities to talk about other issues. and it was very important to talk about immigration. i was at homestead today, and i saw firsthand what's going on there. and enough is enough. of this donald trump immigration policy. and it was important to talk about the health care issue of course. and there are some differences on the stage on that. >> well, let's talk about the reproductive issue because somebody said tonight they want to codify roe v. wade. is that necessary? i thought the supreme court ruling is the law of the land. it is the constitution. >> it is. and i think these horrific laws in georgia and alabama that say a doctor has to go to prison for 99 years, i think they'll be thrown out as unconstitutional. but what we are anticipating is what if the supreme court does throw it out? so the idea is that if --
>> do you trust roberts not to do it? do you trust roberts not to do it? >> i'm not going to say what he'll do. i just hope they'll do the right thing. the law is clear. it would be a travesty. >> let me ask you -- well, that's a good question. let me ask you about the -- god, i actually ran out of questions. >> that's impossible. >> no, let me talk about health care. the issue was raised tonight, should we outlaw or ban private health insurance? where are you on that again? >> i am one that thinks we need universal health care. we need to bring down premiums. and we need to do something about pharmaceuticals immediately. so my view su start with this public option which is something barack obama wanted to do to build on the affordable care act. you can do it with medicare. you can do it with -- >> so it's an option? >> it is an option. >> why do these other people want to outlaw -- why does bernie want to outlaw health insurance? >> he is simply looking at what do we do about a health care system that's way too expensive. and he's look at -- i think my problem with it as i said today is in the long haul it's something you can look at. and that's why i'd start with the public option.
but the bill itself says you kick people off of their insurance in four years. >> you think it's constitutional. you're an attorney. you've been a prosecutor. do you think it's constitutional to tell the american people they can't buy health insurance? do you think it sounds constitutional? >> all i know is we have a policy debate but the biggest thing is that what unites us is much bigger than what divides us because look at donald trump. he is literally at this moment in the state of texas trying to throw out the affordable care act and all those protections including protection to not be kicked off your insurance for pre-existing conditions. >> can you get rid of mitch mcconnell to do this? because as long as he's there none of this is going to happen. >> well, first of all, we have a very good opportunity to win the u.s. senate, and we talked about that today. and that is the number one goal. and that's my argument for me leading this ticket. i'm someone, every time i lead our ticket in minnesota we win big. i have won in the reddest of districts including ones that trump won by over 20 points. because it's not just enough to win the presidency.
this has to be a national mandate to do something about climate change, to do something about immigration reform, health care and all the issues we talked about today. but to do it we have to win. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank you for coming over to the spin room. thank you, brian and nicolle. >> chris, thank you. and nicolle, a couple of things. chris's first point about no one laying a glove on biden tonight is, a, true and, b, it makes 80% of the advance press coverage of tonight wrong. all of us on our various broadcasts had guessed for days, who have been saying you don't want to be joe biden, he's going to be the invisible pinata. it didn't happen. and that's notable. second, when klobuchar says winning back the senate is a big priority for the democrats, a lot of democrats' heads just exploded because they see the opposite in reality. they see a ton of potentially attractive candidates across this country, many of whom lost their last time out, not being used in an attempt to win the is that the. >> well, and i think that what's
become clear 2 1/2 years in is that donald trump's two most dangerous allies are bill barr, the current attorney general, and mitch mcconnell, who makes into policy everything that donald trump tweets with his little thumbs. i think it's a bigger problem. right? just than what donald trump says and does. is that he's got enablers in congress. i think there's sort of this idea that senators and obviously democrats elect more senators than -- or nominate more senators. but i think that the senators are showing themselves as very well suited for sort of addressing some of these structural problems we have. >> while i understand we have a former senator sitting with us, chris matthews has now been joined by congresswoman gabbard. >> tulsi gabbard of hawaii. >> aloha. >> first of all, how far are you into this race? are you going to run for re-election if you don't get the nomination? >> i'm focused on running for president. >> you're giving up what you've got. >> i'm focused on running for president because i think there are serious changes as i pointed out in this debate tonight that
need to be made to our foreign policy, which is directly connected to every single domestic issue that we face. >> why were you the lone voice out there going after the neocons, going after the people that took us into these wars? >> that's a great -- >> you're the only one out there. >> that's a great question that i hope you ask every single other person you interview. i can tell you, this comes from a deeply personal place as you know. i deployed to iraq in 2005 during the height of that war. i served in a medical unit where every single day i saw that terrible high human cost of war and in congress serving over six years on the foreign affairs, armed services, homeland security committees i know the importance of national security and i know that with that experience and the conviction not to bend to the whims of the military-industrial complex or the foreign policy establishment i'm ready to do that job of commander in chief on day one. >> does it bother you that joe biden who's the front-runner in the democratic fight right now, voted for the iraq war? >> it was the wrong vote. it was the wrong vote.
people like myself, americans across this country who enlisted after those terrorist attacks on 9/11 by al qaeda, we joined the military to go after those who attacked us. and we were lied to. we were betrayed by those who sent us there, by those who presented this false evidence or believed it without asking those tough questions. i'm not going to allow any other service member to go through that, to go to war under these false pretenses or this lack of actually examining the evidence that's there. >> would you like to see the democratic platform next summer? because platforms do matter. say no more policy or regime change anywhere in the world. no more of that. >> absolutely. absolutely. and i think this is something that's important for folks to recognize, is so often these regime change wars are waged under the guise of humanitarianism. saying well, we need to go and help the people in these countries. but in fact what happens every single time is people end up with more suffering, more death, more destruction.
>> congressman, i'm so glad somebody waved the banner. >> thank you, chris. >> for reasonableness in foreign policy. thank you so much tonight. good luck in the future. let's come back to brian and nicolle. >> chris, thank you. and senator, i -- >> it's -- >> i know. >> it's supposed to be claire. >> once a senator always -- >> oh, no. i'm called claire at home. i like when people call me claire. >> there is a charge on the floor, and a lot of it is on, let's be honest, democrats on twitter, say in effect if this is the year the democrats care about winning the senate i'd hate to see the year when they don't care about winning back the senate. everyone can name six highly capable candidates. everyone in the politics business. what say you about your party? >> well, i think there certainly are some candidates running for president that would be great senate candidates in their states. and we know who they are.
we saw one tonight. we saw two tonight. the former mayor of san antonio and beto. we'll see a couple tomorrow night. john hickenlooper from colorado. and we'll also see -- we won't see steve bullock. >> but he's out there. >> yeah. there are really good candidates out there. on the other hand, remember how we won the house. we didn't win the house with candidates in these swing districts that had been in washington or that had been in politi politics. we won these seats by putting candidates up that had strong personal stories that could legitimately hold the title as outsider. and i've said this several times tonight. and i know i sound like a broken record. the outsider-insider dynamic is big. and having candidates in these states, as long as we can fund them, as long as people pay attention and give those $10 contributions not just to the candidate tonight they like but the candidate running in iowa and colorado and north carolina and arizona, we could win the
senate. and that i think is maybe a smarter way to go about this than the big name candidates that people think we lost. >> it's harder to run statewide in a senate race as an outsider than in a house race? >> i disagree. i think being an outsider is a very powerful thing. ask donald trump. >> i have to vote for cloture here and go to chris matthews with cory booker. >> i'm so lucky to have senator cory here. senator booker. i want to tell you i was watching tonight i thought it was very strong, and i'll just give my referee's judgment. >> yes, yes. >> i think these debates are so intense and they're so riven by -- driven by really passionate issues. >> yes. >> it's very hard to sort of introduce your person. >> yeah. >> did you feel that it was just every question was about school shootings or somebody dying at the border and the rio grande and just horror? and guns and -- tonight was really freighted with this
horrible stuff. >> there's a lot of hurt in america. we hit on guns and immigration. even health care. with this big a field i don't think we got to know the candidates as much as we will on future debate stages. i think they'll whittle down especially with the high need for individual contributions in future debates. but i felt very strong. i felt i was able to make my points and make my case and introduce to a lot of americans who unlike some of the other people in this race who have 90, 100% name recognition we're down about 50%. i thought this was a -- >> i thought you spoke for cities. i thought you spoke for newark. big cities where i grew up in. i think you spoke for the attitude people have toward guns who live in row houses. we don't need guns. we don't need them in the neighborhoods. we don't need kids to have them. you talked about registration but you also talked i thought very eph oktively about hearing gunshots. when you hear them on the rifle range that's one thing, but people shooting to kill at night. >> in newark where i lived for 20 years. when you have the 4th of july and parents telling you that
when kids hear fireworks they show traumatic stress, they hide under beds or in closets or have anxiety attacks. this is the kind of stuff that many americans know every single day, worrying. but now that fear is spreading with these mass shootings. and that's why i think we're going to win this battle and we shouldn't have low ambitions when it comes to this. the only people that should be afraid should be the corporate gun lobby, gun runners and criminals who too easily get their hands on -- >> i wasn't ready for this, senator, but when people went to their bilingual lessons i was always impressed people talk about your expression when he went to spanish. >> and he threw down the gauntlet and i had to respond. there's a number of bilingual people on that stage. and it was beto -- >> you're like what the heck's going on here? i just think it's -- i guess this is going to progress now. >> well, i was listening to him and i was like, okay, fine. it's good that he's showing that. we all need to --
>> should we have a bake-off some night, on spanish literacy? >> i'm happy. my spanish is nowhere near fluent but i'm conversational. i can do interviews. we need to do more of that. >> the nra gun owners out there, the members of the second amendment community heard you tonight i'm sure. when you said registration. they have been -- you said if you have to drive a car when you're 16 you've got to get a driver's license, you've got to have training, you have to be a junior driver-u can't drive at night. the whole procedure. you said you need something like that on guns. >> we do. and the states that have done it see dramatic drops in gun violence. >> does the constitution -- >> the supreme court has spoken on this numerous times, that there are reasonable restrictions because there's no absolute rights. with don't have the absolute right to free speech. i can't stand up in a movie theater and scream fire. when we see firing going on too much. we need to have reasonable gun safety provisions that are common sense. and the majority of america agrees with me on this. >> let's talk about numbers. i've been looking at your numbers. you're down in the single digits. there's about five candidates
who seem to have broken up into the upper tier. do you think you broke up tonight? did you get into that -- >> i think the more americans that get a chance to see me the better our polling seems to do. i'm happy with some of our rising in the early primary states where more people are hearing me. and you know this. we've got 215, 220 days left in this election before we even get to iowa. we're going to have a lot of time to make our case. and you know also from past campaigns people who are leading in the polls this far out don't normally become our nominee. >> is the reason nobody attacked biden tonight is they all want to be his running mate? >> that's not the reason i wasn't -- you're being a little facetious about it. but i don't think he is the focus. the american people are the focus. >> but you'd accept that role, wouldn't you take it? >> i'd accept joe biden being my vice president. i wouldn't even -- >> come on. too cute. >> no, i'll tell you this. i would not accept it if a male offered me because we should have a female vice president. i think the power and the diversity and the incredible nature of the people we have out there -- >> how about no more all-white
tickets? >> i agree with that. >> i'm asking you. >> i believe it. >> you made a lot of news. >> there should be diversity. >> new york state ticket. >> yes. we should -- >> let me go. i'm getting caught here. brian, back to you, sir. >> made it sound like it was me. i'm being called by our control room to scurry to a break. and as i do so, here's the lead in politico. elizabeth warren had her moments to shine. beto o'rourke spoke spanish out of nowhere, then sparred with julian castro. amy klobuchar got one of the biggest applause lines of the night. that's the opening graph of the action as we all witnessed it tonight. a quick break for us. we'll go back down to chris. ooft candidates are lining up to come on the air with us. ooft candidates are lining up to come on the air with us. maria ramirez?
but two can play at that game because connected to us is donny deutsch. if you watch "morning joe," if you watch "deadline white house," if you watch virtually any broadcast on this network, you know donny deutsch. >> and we've quoted you already, donny. >> we have quoted you. you may not be thrilled with the way i did, but it was in -- it was in your -- in context of the kind of branding work you have done for the democrats. i quoted you on nicolle's broadcast as saying if it's warren they'll lose 48 states. with that as the backdrop how did you think they did tonight? >> i want to work back from to me the moment where the room came alive and to me it's the ultimate tell. when inslee said our biggest threat is donald trump. and that to me still is what is driving voters and still was not touched tonight. the reason some people reacted positively to de blasio, because you saw another bully up there. he was kind of invading other people's spaces. cory booker had his strength. the reason people have not gone
after to this point biden is because he is seen as the anti-trump and it will backfire at this point until he's not. so to me that is the big thing, and it was not addressed tonight. this is not an issues campaign. this is who is the bully that can beat the bully? and i think interestingly enough booker showed a certain strength there. even de blasio. even though i found him annoying also. he cut through. and i think that is the driver. it's not issues. it's not universal health care. it's not a woman's reproductive rights, as important as that is. what we have lived through all these things before, we've lived through iran, we have lived through korea, we have lived through issues on health care. we have not lived through an assault on our democracy and an assault on our senses. that is what everybody is lensing everything through. so i don't think warren moved that ball particularly. i do think interestingly enough booker did move that ball. >> donny, just to keep your frame around this, i've got a list of who dropped trump's name
the most. and you're right. warren didn't mention donald trump. neither did de blasio based on this list. amy klobuchar invoked donald trump nine times. and tim ryan second with seven. do you think that an opportunity was missed -- >> yes. >> -- to sort of indict all of the moral and legal and ethical and policy trespasses of the trump years? and if you do, why do you think they made that decision? it was obviously a strategic choice -- >> people want to hear somebody stand up and say this is a horrific assault on who we are on every level. everything we stand for. and he needs to go, and i'm the one to take him out. people are yearning for that. they are crying for that. you heard it even in the applause to jay inslee. on a very bad night. i don't understand how people don't know that. that supersedes everything else 10x. >> and by the way, the reason amy dropped trump's name nine times is she was referenced that
she had won in areas that trump had won. it was about her electability. she even really didn't go after him. none of them really did. but that's why her total was so much higher, because she wanted to emphasize her electability as somebody who does well in red areas. >> why do you think they made the choice not to -- i mean, we talked about gene's piece yesterday, which was the most powerful thing i've read -- >> not as if there's a lack of material or immediate material. i mean, you have this heartbreaking situation on the border directly resulting from the policies of this president, the deliberate policies of this president. you know, there was some passion in the immigration discussion, but it was passion disconnected from the cause of the tragedy. >> donny, don't go. i've got to go back to chris matthews, who has one of the people we've just been talking about, congressman ryan, ohio. >> thank you so much, brian. tim ryan, you talked in a way
the other democrats didn't today. you talked about working people in not cool parts of the country, not from the coast, not from the ivy league. and you -- i thought you talked about how you could actually win an election against donald trump. >> yeah. get into the industrial midwest, connect the working-class people, change the brand of the people away from the coasts and the ivy leagues. that's not going to work for us. especially against donald trump. so if you want to win western pa, you want to win ohio, michigan, wisconsin of course, but if you certainly want to try to win the senate back your brand better be we're for the working class. >> why does the crowd tonight in the auditorium, if you will, how come they don't react to that? they seem to be willing to cheer the usual progressive applause lines but they didn't seem to be applauding the idea that hey, we could actually beat trump if we do certain things. >> well, that's my campaign, is how do you begin to convince people that yeah, i'm with you on these issues too. but if we're going to connect working-class people we can't just talk about $15 an hour jobs which i'm for, you're for, we're all for. you'd better talk about $30,
$40, $50 an hour jobs if you want to pull those people back in -- white people went and voted for trump. african-american voters stayed home. we've got to talk about economic issues. >> can you bring ohio in? >> yes, sir. we can win ohio. we can win the industrial midwest. i'm telling you if we have a brand that's surrounded youngstown, ohio, northeast ohio, we can go after mitch mcconnell. >> i'm very proud of the fact we've been going around to places like wilkes-barre, pennsylvania and we're listening to people just like that and we're talking to them about what's going to decide their vote. >> and what are they saying? >> they're saying don't overlook us, don't look down on us, don't ignore us, come and talk to us. >> amen. go to tim ryan for america.com, baby. >> thank you, congressman. thank you, brian. >> interesting to see who gets the ad in. we will take a break. we will continue our coverage. here's how donny has it good. his show doesn't air until saturday night. he's going to have this all tied up with a bow. it's going to make perfect sense. and here we are in the moment. more of which after this. >> muddling through.
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we are back. so much to talk about. and of course the spin room across the street from the venue where the actual debate was held, all of this to be repeated tomorrow night with even higher stakes, is teeming with everyone who's ever met a camera. anyone who's ever owned a camera. professional cameras, phones, people who have aspirational dreams of owning a camera someday. it's really unbelievable. it's changed even since your time, which was just yesterday. >> i would be out of a job. i mean, this used to be the work of the staffers, the spinners. you'd walk around as staffers and get to talk to people like chris. now the candidates do that -- >> and they're streaming in to talk to chris matthews. >> of course they are. >> another as we speak. chris? >> you know, i like the sound of spin room envy. it's a wonderful feeling. let me go to one of the great
performers tonight, secretary castro. thank you. >> good to be with you. >> i thought a couple of things. first of all, i'll take the high road. i thought that you as a latino, a mexican-american, you were able to talk about what's in ri. the heart of the reey grande kpluc kmec exemplified in that newspaper this morning. >> when we see an image like that, of that father and the young daughter. >> with her little arm around his neck. >> i mean anybody can relate to that. that has nothing to do with people are coming from or the color of their skin or the country. it tears at you and tugs at your heart no matter who you are. and i wanted to make sure we speak in an informed way about the policies of this administration that has been so horrendous that have allowed those things to happen. >> two texans were on that stage
tonight and two texans went to war tonight. >> what has beto o'rourke got right? >> i think he's done his homework. the difference between my immigration plan and his immigration plan is an important one. and that's what i pointed out tonight. i respect o'rourke. the only way we're going to end family separation is if we repeal, essentially go back to the way we used to do this and treat this as a civil violation. that doesn't mean people get off scott free. they're still part of a court process but that was the section -- >> was he telling the truth to tonight? >> i think he was misinformed and hadn't done his homework. he was suggesting you needed to keep that law because we needed to be able to pung people who are drug trafficking or human trafficking. i agree we need to be able to punish them, but we already have laws that do that, and that's
what congressman ryan point out as well. i was happy to hear senator ryan, senator booker, and governor inslee have supported my position. i do find it somewhat ironic that a senator from massachusetts and a senator from new jersey and a congressman from ohio have a better understanding of immigration law than congressman -- >> obviously you're a very liberal guy on this issue because you talked about putting people on a path to citizenship without the legal documents. would that be something immediate, are you saying all people in that category should be given a path to citizenship? >> if you have not committed a serious crime then i think you should be put on a pathway to earn citizenship. if somebody has committed a serious crime of course we should punish that crime. >> i thought i heard it. thank you, very clear. >> chris matthews, thank you very much. steve kornacki, this was the pairing you mentioned to us in the first moments after the
debate. >> yeah, i think castro was so interesting tonight and i think you heard it bit there with chris in that his message tonight sort of i think aligns with where the political world has come to in this moment. immigration is one of the major points that castro is stressing. it's where he's tried to separate himself from the rest of the field. obviously being from texas, a border state and all that comes with that. i think what you saw in that debate tonight is a message that sort of matches potentially where the democratic party is in this moment and also somebody -- i think this is critical when you've got ten candidates on stage like this, someone who's capable of delivering that message. caster and cory booker are interesting to me because they are two candidates early in their political careers were marked as people with national political potential. remember in 2012 who did barack obama choose as the keynote speaker at the convention that renominated him? it was julian castro. so castro from has always had
from a communications standpoint that potential. i'm very interested to see what happens with him. and cory booker, i can remember almost 20 years ago starting out covering politics in new jersey, watching cory booker run for mayor of newark, new jersey. and he actually lost that race and won his second time around in newark. but i remember they talked about the buzz around new jersey was that booker had lost the city of newark, but he had won the state of new jersey. and what that meant cory booker's appeal back then was suburban. it's interesting now to see him running on a city message. >> steve kornacki at the board. elizabeth warren with chris matthews. chris? >> thank you, well, elizabeth warren i think you won tonight. i've been watching these debates all my life. just talk about this because we've only got a few minutes. i thought you had a consistent even relentless message of
populism, pure american populism. we in the country have got to bring down the power of the big shots and have got to disperse that power among the people. >> this is why i'm running for president. we have a country that works great for a thinner and thinner and thinner slice at the top. and this has been going on a long time. it started long before donald trump got here, but now it has really taken off. our big chance in 2020 is not to try to roll back the clock, not to come up with some small ideas we'll make a change here and a change over there, it's to make a big systemic change, to take this corruption head on, to reset this economy and these politics and make it work for the people. >> we had lunch a year and a half ago and i think it was on the record. you made a point you're a democrat. but you want to do something to make it better.
succinctly what separates you from bernie in you're both talking -- you used a word from the '60s it kind of scared me -- structural change. what do you mean by it? >> it's reel. right now we've got a political problem and that is money makes its way felt in every decision in washington. campaign contributions, lobbyists, dark money -- >> can you tell when a colleague has been bought? >> come on, look at the votes. >> can you tell? >> sometimes and sometimes you got to wonder. but understand, chris, that's like looking at this thin slice of it. it's not only the campaign contributions. it's how many times have the lobbyists been in to talk to the staffers? how many times have bought and paid for experts got -- how
about the revolving door? you watch these guys. did you read jack abram's book? >> he's the guy that represented the indian treibes, exploited te hell out of them. >> he used to talk about how he would say to young staffers, you know, when you're through being a staffer come over to our shop because we really think you have promise. and he would say at that point he no longer had to stay after -- >> i know how this works. they come around with their tans and their expensive suits and they talk to the staffers about all the vacations they've been on and the golf clubs they're in, and they say if you work with me from the inside i may give you a job later. you know how it works. >> so here's the deal. i have the biggest anti-corruption plan since watergate. here's the bad news. we need to biggest anti-corruption plan since
watergate, but we can attack this head on. and if we do, everything else we need to work on in the economy, in climate change, on guns -- >> you're on a roll, senator. i think we're going a back to the senator. >> okay, we just have to air a piece of business. we're going to be away for approximately 60 seconds and we're going to come back with more from senator warren. g to c more from senator warren a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.
we are back as promised with 45 seconds from the top of the midnight hour here in the east. senator elizabeth warren remains with chris matthews. chris? >> we have donny deutsch on, a real new yorker. he says he did kill across the country. what's the reality of your -- when you put your head together, you're not doing this just to win the nomination, right?
i don't think so. when you look ahead and i'm sure you go to bed at night thinking i've got to beat this guy in the room, trump in the room. what the that going to be like? >> so it's trump in the room. look, he's a bully. and first thing schoolteachers learn you never let bullies get away with it. here's the deal. you can't make this all about donald trump. >> but he'll be there in your face. >> i get it. i'm going to be out there to talk about our affirmative vision. you know what people to want to hear about, student loan debt. they want to hear about universal child care. they want to hear i've got a plan for 1.2 million new manufacturing jobs across this country. they want to hear about how you really are going to break up those tech giants and big ag and the big banks, the guys who are just controlling -- >> you're taking on jeff bazos.
let's bring in lawrence. >> there were discussions what to do with the tax code at the highest end. there were some references to some of the proposals you made but the question didn't go directly to you. what about your wealth tax and if you're putting a wealth tax over $50 million, what would be the tax income rate and tax bracket that would accompany that? >> so let's start with my wealth tax. so here's my proposal. it says that anyone who's got a fortune above $50 million, they're good on their first $50 million, but the 50 million and first dollar, they've got to pitch in 2 cents, and 2 cents on every dollar after that. that is the top one tenth of 1%. take a deep breath and let me tell you what we can do with 2
cents, universal health care for every baby 2 to 5. universal pre-k for every 2-year-old to 4-year-old in this country. raise the wages of teachers to the professional levels they deserve. universal, technical school, two-year college and four-year college for everybody who wants to give it a try. $50 billion into our historically black colleges and universities. let's level the playing field and cancel student loan debt for about 95% of the kids who have student loan debt. that's what we can do with 2 cents. and the reason i want you to focus there for a minute is it tells you how broken this economy is. we keep focusing on income, and it matters. but what's happening is it's the accumulation of wealth. these giant fortunes that grow of themselves. they have their own money management teams that keep growing the wealth so that 2
cents from those guys, think what that would mean and how it would begin to make structural change in this economy. let me make just one more pitch. you know, the 99% last year paid about 7.2% of their total wealth in taxes. you know, that's the property tax in every part of this. the top, they paid about 3.2%. i'm just asking them to pitch in 2 cents, just level the playing field a little bit and we do that, and tens of millions of people in this country, suddenly they're in the game. they've got a chance to build a future. that's the kind of america we should be. >> let me ask you how do you this because income taxes are basically done by people being honest. usually people say okay i've got to pay this amount.
we know about taxes, people say i'm going to pay, it's too much. how do you evaluate the cost of peoples paintings, of their real estate, of the old antique cars? what government agency would be capable of even guesstimating the value of someone's wealth? how would they do it? >> come on. let's start out with the fact unlike income tax which is literally hundreds of millions of people, tens of millions of people but with wealth tax it's 75 families, that's it the whole deal. and the way the law is written whenever it's held and anyplace -- >> who would go and look for it? >> what we built right into the plan was far more sophisticated and more investment in the enforcement. >> oh, i bet. >> you bet because there's real pay off for that enforcement. >> if someone comes around and says that painting is worth $10 million, pay up. >> but do understand this, those
things are valued right now. those great fortunes right now, they've got their teams of auditors. they're all there because they use it as collateral. >> thank you, senator. thank you very much. good luck. we're going back to brian. beto o'rourke is coming here somewhere. >> i'm told he's in the crowd. he's going to pass senator warren, make his way to you. we're going to have a brief chat while you're doing that. nicolle and i were talking to donny deutsch earlier. donny, the rules of debate is if your name gets invoked you get 630 seconds especially if you're described by chris matthews as a new york money guy. i hope your family got a kick out of that. back to your original point as we watch beto o'rourke make his way back to chris' camera in true transparent fashion, do you still standby your wide quote?
>> i do not believe elizabeth warren on stage with donald trump beats him. and i think if we're honest with ourselves and we look hard at ourselves i think a lot of people agree with me. it's -- and i also think when you can label somebody a socialist, 57% of this country thinks that word is un-american. i'm not saying it's fair. when he can blanket elizabeth warren as a socialiest and he's on stage with her, the democrats lose. i think she's delightful, i think she's wonderful. i'm a big fan. i just don't think she has what it takes to beat this president, the same way at least an idealized version of joe biden is. don't shoot the messenger. it's just facts. we've got to get trump out. >> donny, you're in a safe space here. can i follow up on that, donny, who could beat trump? >> i'm still sticking with an
idealized version of -- no, the joe biden we want. the joe biden we want and you pair him with the right candidate, yes. i still in my heart of hearts don't see anybody on that stage tonight that would beat trump. >> let's just identify this for what it is, pure guesswork a year and a half away and so it has and i say this respectfully, zero value -- >> don't tell me it has zero value. >> it does. it's a zero guess tonight. >> it's understanding human behavior. >> there's no science in it, there's nothing in it. and you can put any time you want in the wild guess you just made and it doesn't make it true. >> understanding donald trump, the way he connects with this country and the strength he exudes, where we need to exude a stronger strength. >> this is pure guesswork section of the discussion. >> this is guy who's done this
for 30 years and watched human behavior. >> now then, standing by with beto o'rourke is chris matthews. we'll continue this on the other side. chris? >> somebody said earlier you begin your response and the torrent of action tonight with a kind of antidotal story rather than a blunt declarative statement. is that your style? >> i've spent this campaign traveling the country listening to people. and i think part of my responsibility is to reflect what i've learned, what they've been willing to share with me. and i think that's how you bring americans into their democracy. if you're going to meet the challenge of climate or health care for all or a more inclusive economy or fixing our immigration system you're going to need to bring people in, and one of the best ways to do that is with our stories. i think that's an important part sharing the messages of this country. >> there's some sharp
questioning tonight. one was about the marginal tax rate. the argument was made by elizabeth warren that's the right back in the -- of course back then in all fairness there were people who figured out taxes and didn't pay 70%. do you want to answer the question now because you didn't before, are you for a 70% imaginal rate? >> no, i'm not. what i am for and this gets to the spirit of the question is changing our tax code to make it fair for everybody. to ask the very wealthiest to pay their fair share. >> what would be a rate you'd be happy with? >> what if we took the corporate rate not back up 30% where it was but to 28%? >> what about individual rate? >> i think individually if you taxed capital at the same rate you tax ordinary income you would generate hundreds offend billions of dollars. yes, you might move the marginal rate, but i don't think you're going to capture the kind of
revenues you're looking for or address the kind of income or wealth inequality that you can to the changes we tax capital and corporations. and looking at wealth and makic sure that some of that is captured when it's transferred from one generation to the next, far more than we do right now. that gets at the very basis of the structural inequality that you have in this country right now, and it funds those programs that we're all talking about that ensure that every american lives up to their full potential. >> you know what i heard tonight, i heard a lot of people competing for how much they could give to people and arguably they would take that money from the wealthy to pay for it, and people seem to be competitive about that. you know, community college, you know, amy klobuchar, other people all saying all public college, all university all paid for by the government, all student loans paid up by the government. is that a problem in your party right now, people are competing
to offer money transfers from one economic group to another in a way that has really become galloping at this point, the promises? >> we certainly can't win or achieve these goals by pitting one set of americans against another set. >> are we doing that? >> we've got to bring everyone in. i'll give you an example. you mentioned college affordability. we talk about ensuring if you have some of that college debt that we expand the public service debt forgiveness program. you're going to teach school, work in a va, take care of our veterans we're going to make sure we wipe clean you do that. we're going to make the first two years of a four-year degree free but a full degree debt free for students. >> we talked last time and i find it notable that all of your policy prescriptions are wrapped around things that you hear on the campaign trail, sort of the way you organize the policies around who they would help,
whose concerns and questions they would answer. i do still think it's interesting that there is just a snark to the way you're treated whether it's by the media or by the other democrats on stage, ander what you're -- that's what it looked like to me as someone rooting for everybody and i think a big field helps all of us. it's certainly more fun to cover. but you were singled out, you were targeted, you were attacked and i wonder what that was like. >> look, you've got a president who is trying to define this country by his pettiness, his smallness, his meanness. i don't think more of that is going to get us to where we need to be. i don't know that he was getting at the root of the issue that we were talking about. i'm talking about rewriting this country's immigration laws in our own image. never again caging children, ensuring that those who have been separated are reunited,
vesting in these solutions to challenges in central america so that no family ever has to make this journey. ensuring we don't criminalize families fleeing persecution and violence when they arrive on our border. in fact, i would not detain them but release them through a family case program. the 9 million in this country make sure they become u.s. citizens as soon as possible, the dreamers free them from fear of deportation, and register with our government and contribute even more to our success. i think if we do all that it's understandable to ask those who come to this country to follow our laws because there will be a safe, lawful orderly process to do that. i think we have to look at the big picture and big opportunity when the comes to immigration. that's what i'm focused on right now and reflective of what i'm hearing from folks around this country. >> back to you, brian. >> thank you. chris matthews and beto o'rourke. >> he's so interesting.
he does always -- he's like a magnet for criticism. he gets some of some snarkiest coverage in the political coverage. >> of late. >> not really. since he showed up on the cover of vanity fair -- >> during the cruise he had a nice cruise all by himself. >> i'm just asking some of the questions sort of out there about tulsi gabbard. maybe it was he was held up too high -- >> also buttigieg happened and he happened in the same space -- >> but there's 37 people running and there isn't room for beto. my position is i will vote for the nominees vehicle, i mean whoever y'all settle on, i'm in. but he is singled out. >> but the interesting thing is the answer on immigration, if you listen to his answer on immigration, it's realistic. >> -- the position is that much
different than that? >> no, it is different. he's basically saying there does need to be some laws around entering our country, and it is a -- it really is -- he's not going to like it i said this, it's a more moderate position than castros. it's a more ploderate position than frankly some of the others who were on that stage tonight. but it still is the kind of proposal that actually -- it's the kind of proposal that got 60 votes in the senate when i was there. it could actually become law, and you could finally make progress on a really broken immigration system. he should get credit for knowing the subject well enough and understanding what the dynamic is around this that he is proposing something that actually makes a lot of sense. >> and my only point, it's more about us. all the media chatter on social media is that he got his clock cleaned by castro. and the deeper analysis is what you've just said, his proposal is actually passable and do-able. >> and not as wide open as
castro's. castro's basically saying no border. >> well, he's saying no section 1325 which criminalizes the crossing of the border. but the civil penalty currently 1325 have both criminal and civil penalties and he would just remove the criminal penalties. but what beto is saying is procedurally i would handle all these people the same way. i wouldn't impose the criminal penalty. >> i get it, lawrence. but i'm just telling you open borders is not the way we beat donald trump. >> i think that's a good point. and i think all of these candidates or most of them, not every single one, that debate struck me as like the great debate at the end of donald trump's second term. as if trump wasn't there. >> i totally agree with you. >> so you can't do any of this stuff, right? you have mitch mcconnell to deal with as well, but you've got to get rid of donald trump if
you're going to do any of the stuff. if you're going to talk about any of these issues in this reasonable sounding way and whether 1325 should be repealed or just part of it ignored -- >> but we've got a lunatic that almost bombed iran for kicks but live tweeted back instead. it was really sort of detached from -- >> we're in a moment, people, and i it was an interesting exercise but detached. >> it'll also be interesting to see and all kamt ricalicampaign managers are watching, forgive the phrase, on the fly. i mean, i'm just saying, there are other candidates making their way to chris matthews. we're going to check and make sure they were all on stage tonight at tonight's debate. our coverage continues right after this. debate. our coverage continues right after this i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed,
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we are back and one last time i am told we go to chris matthews in the spin room with one of the candidates from tonight. chris? >> thank you, brian. we're here with john delaney who very interesting, congressman. you opened by saying i'm very different than the other people here. and that's just like throwing down the daunt lnt and you said you want to bring jobs to people through economic growth, education. other people said they could do it through minimum wage and things like that. what's your philosophical difference? >> i'm different because i'm successful in the private sector, started jobs and i think i understand how this stuff actually works. and the best way to create jobs and ilprove the living standards of americans is for the government and private sector to work together. there's a real role for the
government, but you have to make sure the private sector is actually creating jobs and opportunity for people. and it's got to be based on real solutions, not some of these impossible promises where the government is going to solve every problem like writing off all the student debt in this country. if you and i had $2 trillion to spend on early education, early childhood, pre-k, doing things for community colleges and career technical training, and we'd definitely put some money towards student debt relief, but you wouldn't put it all on writing off the loans. wealthy kids are going to have their loans paid off, what about the kids already going to college, is it going to be free for them? >> let's talk about the phrase i've always been skeptical because medicare as we know it is from 50 years from the time you get your paper route to 65
and by law you have to pay into it. and if you're lucky to survive you get benefits. some someone comes along and says medicare for all, what does that mean exactly? >> it's a great slogan but what it actually means is making private insurance illegal. 50% of our seniors have something called medicare advantage. you know what that is? it's private insurance. last year i think 75% of newly minted seniors chose medicare advantage. and we're going to run as a party on making that illegal. think about that for a second. >> i know. you point out that the money a doctor gets for payments for services under medicare would break the bank of a hospital. >> every hospital in this country would close. every single one of them because medicare -- >> i'm glad you're on the platform. >> someone's got to say these things. >> thank you, congressman. thank you, chris matthews. one of the moments getting a lot of talk tonight when the
language got rather spare and plain because it was part of the rules was the around the horn request for -- and i'll let chuck todd ask the question of all the candidates. >> who is the geopolitical threat to the united states? just give me a one word answer congressman delaney. greatest threat to the united states right now. >> well, the biggest geopolitical challenge is china, but the biggest geopolitical threat remains nuclear weapons. so those are different questions. >> the biggest threat to the security of the united states is donald trump, there's no question. >> congresswoman gabbard. >> the greatest -- >> greatest geopolitical threat. >> the greatest threat we face is the fact we're at a greater threat of nuclear war. >> our major threat right now is
what's going on in the middle east with iran. >> slimmer than what we've been going here. one or two words. >> our existential threat is climate change. we have to confront it before it's too late. >> senator warren. >> climate change. >> castro. >> nuclear and climate change. >> china without a question. the they're wiping us around the word economically. >> and mr. mayor? >> russia because they've been trying to undermine our democracy and they've been doing a pretty democrat good job of it and we need to stop it. >> this question has a history and legacy. the question was asked of mitt romney and he said russia, and he wasn't just sort of lampooned, i might be too strong but he was ridiculed. he was mocked by the parties, by the dnc. >> how'd that turn out? >> it didn't work for him.
he lost an election not just because of that but it's a really important question and it goes to something we've talked about on and off the air, how unimportant national security feels like it is at this point in the democratic primary. nobody had a well-formed answer. they were asked what the greatest geopolitical threat is and i think only three mentioned countries. just a couple mentioned nuclear war. a couple mentioned climate change, all existential threats. but the fact that only a couple had countries as the answer to that question just shook me. >> also we all read a fair amount of history. are we closer today to nuclear war than we ever have been ? >> we have a president who's temperamentally uncontrollable. we've never had a president like that with the nuclear codes. >> but he says he knows all about nuclear.
>> i don't think he knows much about foreign policy much less nuclear. but it was interesting with the political lead now that i heard that again i think the biggest applause of the night might have been when governor inslee said trump. >> and that was donny deutsch's point earlier. >> that told you the hunger in the audience for somebody to take him on. and frankly, you know, maybe the answer should have been north korea because our president doesn't understand what a threat they are. >> and i believe when it comes to north korea they're in the throes of a very passionate letter writing affair. >> i want to go to their stationer. >> yei don't think you want tha but possibly another summit. we have an unpredictable president. i think the general election question, when this is asked in a general election format, i think donald trump, the
isolationism was real, and to any degree there were any impulses primal they were racism and isolationism. i think the instability is dangerous. i think getting on his left to best use or any sort of vision on national security is a challenge because i think it's truly an isolationist doesn't want to see america, doesn't even understand the idea of achieving peace through strength. >> i think his instincts are basically tulsi gabbards. >> right, me too. those are trump's views as well. direct and unconditional talks with iran and north korea. >> and it's absolutely driving john bolton crazy. >> i'm sure. >> coming up on 12:30 eastern time. we're going to fit in a break and i was told i was misinformed. the last candidate of the evening, someone we were just talking about, governor jay inslee is going to be seated
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i think plans are great but i'm a governor and we've got to realize the people who brought us the weekend unions either are going to bring us long over due raids in america. and i'm proud for standing up for reunions. i've got a plan to reinvigorate collective bargaining. it is not right that the ceo of mcdonald's makes 2,100 times more than the people slinging cash at mcdonald's. >> governor jay inslee was the first to name unions, the first to remind us of their workplace heritage in this country. while he wasn't the first to mention donald trump, it was his mention of trump in that last round as we just showed you that led the consensus here anyway as to the most thunderous out break
of applause of the night. chris matthews happens to be joined by governor inslee. >> that was spontaneous, it wasn't the answer the moderator expected. what made you think of trump in answering a generic question about threats to our national security? >> it was a spontaneous reaction because i realized that the existential threats to the united states in particular climate change, he is the main impediment to this nation realizing a brighter economic and environmental future. and it just came to me. it was not fore told, we didn't plan that. but we need to recognize it is a threat to the united states in so many different ways. >> i recently was in a hotel overnight so i watched the movies and there was a movie and you saw the astronauts for the first time seeing the earth and you realize how vulnerable we are, this little green blue film
around this little ball and that's all there is. >> well, that's all we've got. and here's the deal. the next administration is either going to tackle climate change. so i made a point tonight, it was an important one that i will make the first priority of the united states and that is beating donald trump. and i think that's what our kids deserve. >> brian, that was the home run. i think we all agree. >> hey, chris, thank you. you've in effect have been running our miami bureau tonight. >> by yourself. >> you've marched there these candidates through. >> amazing spin performance. >> thank you very much. you'll never have to do it again until tomorrow night. governor jay inslee and not just because he can probably still hear you. >> he did what he had to do to get noticed, and he's one of the people i'm sure who most of the viewers did not was running for president. and the people who matter tonight are my friends who were watching, who have no
professional political affiliations or experience. and among those friends who are all democratic voters, castro is the one they were most surprised by and more interested in than ever before. most of them seemed to be saying elizabeth warren which is kind of where they began tonight. but julian castro really made an impression. and the thing that's so important about this group of 20 is somewhere in this group of 20 is probably the vice presidential nominee. you should be looking for two people here. you should be looking for who's going to be at the top of the ticket, but this is usually where the democrats find their vice presidential nominee also. >> a favor to ask of our steady cam crew and i hate to do this to the control room, can they take a picture of all the logos that's on the far wall of this studio and this is for a reason. first of all this is good year
to be in the logo business. but this looks on a flier of a 5k fun run, our corporate sponsors and partners, that's how many logos is on the wall. and every one of them stands for a current officeholder, certainly someone's hopes and dreams and a consultants hopes and dreams. and the names on that stage tonight, these are real people, differing chances as we pan by them. and this is also representative of half the story we don't know sitting here tonight. senator, tomorrow evening we'll have a whole new plot line. >> we will. and i think it'll be interesting because you're going to have the two most well-known candidates standing next to each other, the two oldest candidates standing next to each other in bernie and joe biden. and america knows them. you're right, lawrence. tonight, frankly, i had some friends of mine saying i wish they would have put nametags on each podium because for people who don't follow this as closely
as obviously we do, they couldn't remember who was who. you know, is that delaney or is that -- right. but tomorrow night there will be i think more familiarity and the contrast between pete buttigieg and biden right next to each other, i mean that is, you know, really a contrast in terms of age, in terms of where they come from, in terms of their vision in many ways. >> just about a 40-year difference on the nose. eugene, let's talk about i love watching bill marr for this reason. he often talks about the ageism we hear in the air around this race. is it fair to say about biden and sanders, they would reach their 80s in a first term presidency? it's going to be striking to see a 37-year-old mayor on that stage tomorrow.
>> it's fair to say because it would be true. i mean, you know, it's true. and it's a fair observation. it's also fair to observe that, you know, 76, 77 today isn't what it was 30 or 40 years ago. i mean, you know, people are -- >> world war ii veterans got a hard use. >> getting up in their years and so that's different and that's something that society i think is grappling with as many people work longer, some because they have to, some because they want to. so who knows? you know, that could be a big issue. it can't be a giant of an when you're running against a president who's 73. >> whose public schedules when leaked to axios shows he does nothing. so i guess my sort of angst is around all of these things, age, experience, immigration, but being examined in a vacuum as
though they're running against like, you know, prince charles, the political version. i mean, they are running against donald trump, so i mean the age questions are interesting. they're to the democrats to sort of sift through these questions. but to me, elections when you are an incumbent, your best case scenario is that it's a choice, right? and when you are challenging an incumbent, the best case scenario is to make it a referendum. when i worked on the '04 re-election, we would have certainly lost if john carry had successfully made a referendum on the war in afghanistan, on the economy which had begun to soften and two years later would completely implode. we managed as a campaign to make it choice, between someone who we depicted, you know, as having flip-flopping on the question of war funding.
so trump's best case scenario is they fail to make it referendum. so what creates deep anxiety in me what happened tonight is we have a list. if they aqueoused to this election being a choice, they're in a significantly weaker position than if they forced a referendum on trump. >> well, every re-election on a president is referendum on that president. look, the truth of the bush campaign is some of the most vicious attacks in the history of presidential campaigning were falsely lodged against a war hero and lies were told and advanced by that campaign. >> i'm not going to relitigate, my only point is someone who would like to see the democrats prevail. and i said they should try to make this a referendum on trump. >> please calm down. it will be okay. trump will be the issue, but i do want to make an ironic point about age in that i'm channelling steve kornacki now when he explained to all of us
where bernie's support is coming from. the oldest candidate is the one that has the rapport with the youngest voters. how come are all the young people are for the oldest guy? i think that's something we've got to remember. i don't think these people look at candidates based on age. i think they see them as older but i think what they're really going to be focused on is does joe biden really have what it takes to be the leader of this great nation at this time we have to recover from this deep and serious wound that has been inflicted on the country by donald trump. >> and by the way we have to heal the wound by getting rid of -- there is a step that everybody skips. you've got to win the election. >> a break for us, and i'm told when we come back we'll talk about who we are, who we want to be through the lens of the issue of immigration, how it was handled from that stage tonight when we continue. handled from that stage tonight when we continue
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brought to you that image is heart breaking and should also piss us all off. if i were president today -- and it should spur us to action. if i were president today i would sign an executive order that would get rid of trump's zero-tolerance policy, the remain in mexico policy and the metering policy. this policy is basically what prompted them to make that risky swim across the river. >> look at the bottom line here. those tragic -- that tragic photo of those -- that parent, that child, and i'm saying this as a father, every american
should feel that in their heart. every american should say that is not america, those are not our values, but we have to get under the skin of why we have this crisis in our system because we have not been honest about the division fomented in this country, the way american citizens have been told immigrants somehow created their misery and challenges. for all the american citizens out there who feel you've dpauldpaufallen behind, the immigrants didn't do that to you. the 1% did that to you, the big corporations did that to you. >> and joining our discussion now from miami is maria theresa ku mar. the immigration issued occupied maybe 12, 15 minutes of the debate. interestingly elizabeth warren never got a chance to speak during that time but most of the other candidates did. what did you make of that section of the debate? >> i think it was incredibly
powerful. they were able to drive home not only what the immigration issue is but the metering problem, this idea we're not talking about the root causes, this was all done under the trump administration, and they were able to do it deftly without actually naming his name. and the reason elizabeth warren was so frustrated is she was the only one there on stage that's actually gone to the detention camp housing close to 2,100 people close here to miami. so she was actually on the ground, witnessing it, seeing it. she was actually able to make eye contact from what i understand with a couple of the minors. i'm sure she had a plan for this and she didn't have that space to say it. i thought what was resonating is they spoke in plain english and something not partisan. and every single american could cap char that image of what we saw yesterday of a child wrapped her arms around her father and
that was powerful. >> what do you make of the fact they didn't really mention donald trump's name very much even in that section of the discussion? >> they didn't. and i think part of it is that they are trying to say this debate they're going to have are the ethics of donald trump and what he's bidding but also trying to create their own rein. they're trying to come up with policy and goals so the american people can see what the challenge is. a lot of americans being reintroduced to a lot of these candidates for the first time wrosh they're in the back of their heads thinking who can go toe to toe with donald trump, and also provide people with a hope and mathway to something completely different than what he stands for? >> what do you expect tomorrow night's debaters to take from tonight's debate as what they would perceive as the most effective ways to go at this
issue? >> they are going to have to do side jabs. i think there was much more resonance all of a sudden when julian castro went after o'rourke, and that's when things got a little spicy. and one of the things that we're going to see tomorrow night is you're not going to see a character assassination but people breaking down everybody, each of those policies and trying to say what makes me different. i think what was missing tonight was there was very little vision of america in the future, how do you build towards that future. but at the end of the day it's economic issues but how do we e reunite ourselves under one flag. >> how big a gap in policy was there between castro and o'rourke? >> the fact o'rourke couldn't say he would actually revisit it, was where the contrast really lay. i got to the point i was not sure he understand the nuance. just this idea he had a question
mark hanging over beto o'rourke's head, that's all he needed to demonstrate haekd actually take on the fight. and i was in the room and beto o'rourke looked nervous, and that was one of the few times i've seen him in that position. so that alone, just that image, he, actually beto o'rourke seemed weakened while julian castro seemed elevated and saw himself as a fighter. >> thank you very much for joining this discussion. >> thank you, lawrence. >> garret hake is with us now. you've logged more miles on the road with all these candidates. brian calls it the shank of the evening. we are there. your thoughts. >> well, we got it partially right in the leadp here. i think cory booker was able to rise to the moment here a little bit. he obviously took advantage of the stage. he muscled his way a number of times during the course of the debate. i was more surprised than i admit than i probably should have been between the castro and
o'rourke showdown out there. i think there was clearly brewing for a while. i talked to julian castro when he came out into the spin room and the sense i got this was obviously a preplanned thing. they knew they had o'rourke on the policy and they probably checked the takes. if you go back and watch beto o'rourke debate ted cruz, when he gets into it in a one on way and has to push back and forth, he's much less comfortable. and this was a guy very comfortable with telling stories and i think he learned tonight as the rest of us that a thousand town halls is not debate prep. these are different animals. and the other thing i thought interesting tonight is bill de blasio, the progressive commie causy. this is what you can do when you come in at 1% and you believe very strongly in what you believe. you can just throw hail makers all night long, and if one or two do land you can get attention. my twitter feed folks were
divided. >> he's on the menu, i guess he can say that to his followers. let me ask you what you're looking at for tomorrow night? there is a feeling that tomorrow night is the big show, that other than elizabeth warren tonight's debate didn't showcase many of the front runners. >> yeah, i think that's true. elizabeth warren benefitted from the fact i think other candidates smelled blood with beto o'rourke tonight. i don't know if joe biden will be that lucky tomorrow. in some ways i think he's an easier target. he's less tightly versed on his own policies and he's a man. quite honestly i think that does change the dynamic a little bit for some of these candidates to punch up at joe biden. and then what does mayor pete buttigieg do? he's had such a difficult week and not just in the basic political terms but in the emotional terms, the baggage
he's to carry emotionally from what's been going on back in south bend? is he in the game? is he fully engaged what's going on in the debate stage? how does he hold up over two hours? >> garret hake, thank you, buddy. i just have to point out i knew him first. garret, thank you for all the miles you've logged. we have two remaining guests in this hour. steve kornacki is one of them. steve, the final word and i see some numbers. >> we were talking about this, beto o'rourke coming into tonight. you can see his average share of the support in the democratic race coming down every month heading into tonight. i think that's the question, did he do anything tonight do you think that's going to reverse that? the other piece of context i think i take away from this looking into tomorrow night has to do with that dust up between o'rourke and castro on the issue of immigration.
one thing to keep in mind especially on social issues, especially on issues that touch race, the democratic party in the age of trump and as a reaction of donald trump all sorts of statistics back this up has moved dramatically to the left particularly white voters in the democratic party on questions of race, on questions of culture. i think it's the backdrop for that exchange. why i think castro might get some traction out of it, and for tomorrow night how those candidates and how does biden respond to that new reality of the democratic party in the trump era. >> all right, steve kornacki on whom we're going to place an ankle device to make sure he doesn't stray from this building until tomorrow night is over because we need him. donny deutsch remains with us. donny, about beto o'rourke, this is not personal. it did look like he was in for a kneecapping tonight. on the other hand, because so
much of this comes down to style, who do you know in life who answers a question in conversation with an antidote prior to any recognizable answer? >> you know, i think beto's problem was when buttigieg showed up frankly because i think it was the real thing underneath at first was just skin. the real thing going into tomorrow night is i would challenge all the candidates to look at the film tonight and go to o'rourke, it was from the gut when inslee said trump is the enemy. they need to understand that. going that it was interesting when castro started to say he was pissed. that image we saw today which i can't remember in a lifetime seeing an image that affected me and i think pretty much everybody that way, seeing that dad and that daughter and that arm, put that on trump's doorstep, say this is not who we are. republican, democrat, who are we? and that somehow don't just stop
it, i'm pissed about that, tabling it to trump on a human level. as a mom, as a dad, as a human and really get down and have people feel that. i want more in the gut tomorrow night than i saw tonight. >> well, you know who did that today but not in the debate is beto o'rourke, who actually tweeted -- don arb wrehe tweeted directly this is trump's fault. it was the simplest tweet i saw about the whole thing but he didn't do that on the stage. >> the show to watch is called saturday night politics. earlier, i was joking. donny does have the luxury of packaging this all together, and we have the luxury of watching it. >> brian, i understand you're not going to be going away this weekend and you'll be in the studio. >> thank you for hanging in with us. the lightening round because we have according to the stage manager a little over a minute i guess. eugene, closing seconds what you're looking for tomorrow
night. >> tomorrow night the top two. biden versus bernie. they have the lion share of support right now. do they go after each other, how do they do it, who comes out on top. >> i'm looking to see how kamala is. i think she's very good in a debate format. she's aggressive. she's smart. she can laugh. i'm looking to see her have a moment tomorrow night. >> i'm looking for something that happened tonight and amy klobuchar said she wanted to jump in and didn't. she never interrupted. all the interrupting was done by the men. the women never trumted. are we going to see that again tomorrow night? >> interesting. >> that's very interesting. you know, i am going to look to see if this group of democrats is sort of in line with the democrats i've known my real life, they don't want to see biden who at this point in the polls is a clear front-runner lead up. >> after a short break i am told
for all those folks who have been out especially west coasters just coming home, you missed the debate, it airs starting now at the top of the hour in its entirety. as for us, we can't travel far. we're back at it 7:00 p.m. eastern time tomorrow night. we'll look for you then. thank you. look for youhe tn. thank you. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? as a doctor, i agree with cdc guidance. i recommend topical pain relievers first... like salonpas patch large. it's powerful, fda-approved to relieve moderate pain, yet non-addictive and gentle on the body.
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