tv Morning Joe MSNBC June 28, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT
how dare you, he's my emotional support snake. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, whose tech helps you understand the risk and reward potential on an options trade it's a paste. it's not liquid or a gel. and even explore what-if scenarios. where's gate 87? don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. mayor buttigieg, your first priority, first issue as president that you are going to block and tackle. >> we have to fix our democracy before it's too late. >> passing a family bill of rights. >> ending gun violence. >> passing a middle class and working families tax cut. >> a collaborative approach to climate change. >> climate change and the lack of economic mobility. >> i would pass a $1,000 freedom dividend for every adult. >> one or two issues throughout. >> my first call is to prime minister of new zealand. >> the first thing i would do is make sure that we defeat donald
trump, period. ♪ and there they are. the day one priorities for the 2020 democratic candidates and what was a contentious night. night two of the first debates. good morning and welcome, everybody, to "morning joe," live at the sugar cane bar and grill in miami. it's friday, june 28th capping the second night of the first presidential debate and it was a scrappy one. with joe, willie and me, we have from nbc, john heilemann. msnbc -- former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. stay with me.
and former chief of staff for the dccc and strategic communications for hillary clinton's presidential campaign, adrienne elrod. she's an msnbc contributor. all right. we have got a lot to get to. we have been talking a lot already before we got on the air here. because last night's debate was feisty and a lot happened and joe, i'm going to put you in the uncomfortable position of wrapping it. how did the democrats do last night? >> you know, this is one of those moments where i have to figure out whether i'm nice or whether i do what i get paid to do. >> well, be nice -- >> i guess since i want to keep getting paid, i'm going to do -- >> be nice. >> with apologies to our friends and watching, last night was a disaster for the democratic party. i hope people were not watching
and first on policy -- let's talk about the goal which every democrat believes which is we have to beat donald trump. right? so they're lined up in trench warfare, ready to get out of the trenches. and charge and fight donald trump. instead, they all turn their guns on each other and shoot each other. and everybody is yelling at each other all night. everybody like if you were watching, if you're an american and this is your introduction to these candidates and the democratic party and all you see are 12 people yelling at each other, trying to interrupt each other and insulting each other, you know what? i thought donald trump was a clown show. i'm changing the channel. here's the second thing. won't be popular among the base. but if you want to beat donald trump, you may want to listen. it is a position of every democrat on that stage that
illegal immigrants if they cross the border illegally should get health care for life. it is then the position of every democrat on that stage that if they cross the border illegally it's not even illegal anymore. now that may make democrats feel really good about themselves, right, but that loses wisconsin, that loses pennsylvania. that loses florida. that loses north carolina. it may lose virginia. and what these candidates -- many of them new to the process need to understand is that we as a nation we're shocked by the picture we saw a few days ago. but there is a vast middle ground between donald trump's immigration policies and the free-for-all immigration policies that were pushed last night. i have to say the front-runner, joe biden, man, he was off his game. i must say, won't make friends here. it was one of the more
disturbing debate performances i have seen since ronald reagan's first debate in 1984. it was one of those moments where you're going, my god, is he going to complete his sentence? there were times he said he was going to give us three points. he gave us one and a half. and then did something that joe biden has never done, gave back his time. my time is up. no, joe biden doesn't do that. joe biden runs through stop signs. he did that last night. bernie sanders was yelling all night. bernie sanders didn't prepare for the debate. it showed because he basically gave the same debate performances this year that he gave four years ago. and it may have worked when it was bernie sanders against hillary clinton. it did not work last night. and i can go on and on.
i will say the one thing about kamala harris, everybody is talking about what an extraordinary moment that was, she's on the show today so we can discuss this and give her time to come here and figure out a way to whack me for saying this, but is it really a democrat debate in 2020 that wants to say i support busing? is there really a democrat today that wants to say even in '74, i would have supported busing when the overwhelming majority of americans oppose busing and by the way, if you're talking about segregation, immigration, schools in miami today are just as segregated by neighborhood as they were back in the 1970s in parts of san francisco. it was unpopular then, it's unpopular now. so is this the position of the democratic party in 2020? that we are going to get 7-year-old children and drive them an hour. take somebody from san francisco and make them go across to oakland for school?
a second grader? no. no, please. i want donald trump to lose. my hope is that only trump was watching last night from osaka in between -- >> he was definitely watching. >> in between snuggling up to vladimir putin and saying more offensive and frightening things, mocking the fact that vladimir putin undermined american democracy in 2016 and could do it again because the president of the united states is giving him a green light. i think thrown a lot out there, willie. >> yes, you have. >> but in the mortal words of elvis costello, don't get me to start talking this morning i could talk all night. it was a bad sign. for me, as somebody who desperately wants to see donald trump taken out of office, but the great news was it's june. we're seven months away from the first contest. and this was a first time that a lot of these people were on the
national stage this way. the one -- i think the one really big question from last night though was joe biden. not as -- not his past, but whether his time actually is up. >> this was all a long way of you're saying you're a big marianne williamson guy? no, we talked about this last night, some moments will come back to haunt whoever the nominee is. kamala harris we should point out raised her hand again last night to say she would eliminate private insurance. she did, she raised her hand. afterwards she tried to spin out of it again. she has been through this before. but she did raise her hand. get rid of private insurance, 1 -- >> can you explain what that means in real terms for parents who want their children to go to the pediatrician that they have known since their children were
born. >> a lot of people have employer-based insurance were happy with that and bill de blasio said it would be phased out over time. and others explained that yesterday. i don't know how exactly long that would take. a lot of people would lose their insurance for a while, they'd be caught in the middle. this would be devastating to a lot of people but she's on the record she could be the nominee. she's on the record for eliminating insurance. all on the record for giving it to the illegal immigrants what's the point of the border anyway if we give everyone insurance. >> by the way, you talk about a magnet. if i'm a parent in any central american country and my child has a disease, has a condition, i'm going to try to cross the border because the second i get across the border, my child and i get health care for life. >> with all that said, michael, we did ask the question yesterday for people being introduced to this group, they'll look at the stage and say who can i see in my mind's
eye standing next to donald trump and fighting donald trump? that person last night was joe biden. last night, i think it became kamala harris for a lot of people. >> i think you're right about that. she -- [ applause ] >> as i said, i know how to drain the crowds' enthusiasm, don't i? sorry is about that. >> but no, i think you're absolutely right because there are two aspects to look at here and they both go to your point, willie, about who's going to go up against donald trump. it is no doubt i think we all can agree now that kamala harris can prosecute the case. >> yeah. >> she can make the case. but what is the case she is making? if the case you're making an immigrant who comes to this country undocumented is -- has access to free health care and will not be -- that action itself will not be any longer criminalized, what are you saying?
because donald trump will sit there and do what he did this morning from osaka and say, oh, they really are socialists. and so that narrative does not play well to your point, joe, across the country. so yes, you can prosecute the case. but it will matter what it is you're prosecuting. what it is you're saying for a policy proscription on the immigration, on the environment, relative to the rest of the country. not your east coast/west coast clients or, you know, constituencies. but the country -- the part of the country that still feels isolated, ignored. on a lot of these issues. and what you're saying to middle america, you know, from pennsylvania, to wisconsin, to michigan, that immigrants can come here and do something that you -- you get access to something that you have a hard time getting access to. >> right. >> that becomes a problem. >> by the way, how many million
people are still uninsured in america. >> exactly. >> adrienne, i don't want to put you in the difficult position -- but somebody who obviously knows the democratic party better than any of us up here, what was your takeaway last night and did you have any concerns or do you think that maybe i'm just the right wing republican out of time? >> well, joe, i actually think -- look, i looked on that stage last night and i saw a lot of candidates who i think could take on donald trump. so that was a good thing in my mind. however, i'm surprised by joe biden's sort of lackluster performance. i thought he was going to pivot and take on trump more from a general election stand point. as opposed to only focusing on defending himself. he was completely on defense almost the entire evening as opposed to being on offense. and kamala harris looked like somebody who could take on trump but i have concerns with especially when it comes to some of the business about immigration that the candidates
took last night and positions on medicare for all because medicare for all is overwhelmingly popular when you look at it on the surface. about 70% of americans support medicare for all, but when you get into the nitty-gritty that you lose private insurance under most of the policies it starts to turn a lot of americans off to the point that you just made, now you have a lot of democrats on record saying, yeah, we want you to lose your private insurance and oh, by the way, if you're an immigrant coming to america, you know you can bet the same benefits that a lot of americans have now. >> by the way, lose your private insurance, lose your doctor. by the way, illegal imgrant -- immigrants cross the border and they get health coverage for life and it's not called illegal anymore. this plays into donald trump's open borders claim and i have been saying for the last 2 1/2 years is a lie. >> let's hear from the candidates. here they are on undocumented immigrants and health care.
>> a lot of you have been talking tonight about these health care plans, this is a show of hands question and hold them up for a moment so people can see. raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants. [ cheers and applause ] okay. >> our country is healthier when everybody is healthier and remember we're talking about somebody -- people are given a chance to buy into in the same way there are undocumented immigrants in my community who pay, they pay sales taxes. they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. this is not about a handout. this is an insurance program. and we do ourselves no favors by having 11 million undocumented people in our country. be unable to access health care. >> you cannot let as the mayor said, you cannot let people who are sick no matter where they come from, no matter what their
status go uncovered. you can't do that. it's just got to be taken care of, you have to. it's a humane thing to do, but here's the deal. the deal is that he's right about three things. number one, they in fact contribute to the well-being of the country but they also for example they increase the life span of social security because they have a job, they're paying a social security tax. that's what they're doing. it's increased the life span they would do
the same thing as reducing the overall cost of health care for them to be treated and not wait until they're in extremis. >> all democrats just raised their hands for giving of illegal ail yins uneliminated helicopter care. how about taking care of americans? >> we may be killing hamlet, john heilemann. we can talk about that specific exchange but i want your overall take on what you saw last night. >> well, i think a lot of your
comments are on point, joe. i think the chaos on stage was not -- it was not a good look. i think a lot of the candidates in this debate watched the night before and took various lessons. first of all, they talked a lot more about donald trump than the first night on the stage. they heard you and us yesterday morning, weird, they're not talking about trump. a lot of talk about trump last night. >> which was a good thing. they should. >> you saw candidates who thought -- who realized that there was -- that they wanted o to -- the impetus was on them to interrupt so the interruption quotient was up very high and kamala harris, what started the train rolling for her very good night was that very relatable moment where she said, you know, what americans don't want is a food fight. they want to hear about how we put food on the table. that was the moment we said, okay, she came to play and she then i thought throughout the debate had the most dominant
performance of any of the candidates over the two nights in the sense she did more to help her prospects to become a democratic nominee than anybody either night. elizabeth warren, very good first night. i think there was not a single answer that kamala harris gave last night where she was not locked in and making an argument that was helping her in some way. i think to adrienne's point, there's a log line of her candidacy, i'm the prosecutor, i can prosecute the case against donald trump. she showed last night all of those prosecutorial skills and made joe biden the stand-in for donald trump. if you want to see me on stage with another white man, watch me right now. i agree with you, i thought joe biden's performance was disconcerting, it was poor. i think the pressure is going to be on him to an extraordinary degree in the second debate to do better, but the reality was that in that moment, you could kind of see what she would look
like. you heard all of the conversation on democrats was having watched that debate was, i can't wait to see her go on stage against donald trump. that's the ultimate win for kamala harris is to plant in democratic voters minds that she would be awesome on stage. >> one job. >> against that president. >> and willie, last night -- [ applause ] >> agreed. >> last night to that point, there was a huge win for kamala harris because she had been stuck around 7, 8%. you know, she had the great kickoff. and then saw a lot of people go past her. she was sort of stuck at 7, 8%, elizabeth warren went past her. mayor pete went past her. she need ed last night to happen, but it was complete domination. it was interesting after with we have been looking at polls showing two old white men in first place, the winner of both nights were women. >> yes. >> women senators, elizabeth
warren and kamala harris. >> a big story of the night. >> those polls came out earlier in the week, we thought this race has been set in concrete for a while with joe biden about 20 points up. something has got to give. well, last night something gave and it was kamala harris who came in. we knew that she was probably going to be the one who could stand on the stage and go at joe biden because somebody had to do change the dynamic of the race. she went in with a calculated idea. she executed it extraordinarily well. she got in a face in a way that was respectful and said i don't think you're a racist but here's why you're wrong for things you have done in the past. if anybody moves up it's going to be her. i think mayor pete had a good night. he had a thoughtful answer about what happened about what's going on in south bend, but kamala harris was the runaway winner last night. >> i will say this. that usually campaigns are about contrast. if you have somebody like donald trump loud and people would say verbally abusive, what you want is a contrast to that and if you
want that contrast then you get that in the form of mayor pete. who actually unlike just about everybody else on the stage kept his cool. his temperament -- >> perfect. >> he had great temperament. and carried himself off very well, even handled the south bend question well. >> i think women are emerging in these debates and in political moment in a whole new way and it's very exciting to watch. >> yes. still ahead, we'll speak with four democratic contenders who took the stage last night and one who did not, mayor pete buttigieg, senator kamala harris will be our guest. we'll be joined by senators kirsten gillibrand and michael bennet and montana governor steve bullock will be our guest. and over the night, donald trump met with vladimir putin and joked about meddling in the 2020 election. serious. we'll get a live report from osaka. you're watching "morning joe."
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demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. don't meddle election. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> so that was donald trump jokingly warning russian president vladimir putin not to meddle in american democracy next year. and i just -- for a second, we really need to put this into perspective. >> yeah. >> the president joking about this. this of course follows him in the helsinki saying he trusted vladimir putin, the ex-kgb chief who said the collapse of the soviet union was one of the
greatest geopolitical tragedies of the 20th century. he said he trusted him over his intel chiefs, over the fbi director he selected. over the nsa director he selected. over coats the director of ndi, over the cia director. over his military generals. so he's done that before. and last night, he decided to joke about a situation that kirstjen nielsen when she was donald trump's secretary of homeland security said this is a threat to american democracy. it wasn't the editorial pages of "the new york times." or nation magazine that was saying this. it was actually donald trump's own appointees. and he's still not getting this
right. you should ask yourself why. if you want the answer, do yourself a favor and read the mueller report. >> oh, my gosh. >> the truth is out there. you just have to read it. >> you can watch him testify on july 17th. >> also, mika, one more piece of context, two weeks ago to george stephanopoulos he said i'd take it if offered dirt and now he looks directly in a joking way at vladimir putin -- >> translation -- >> don't meddle. and he laughs. >> he told george stephanopoulos, i am i'm a national security threat. he literally said he'd do it. >> and about as directly as you can say it, we're open for business. you want to meddle in american democracy, we're open for business. i have no problem with it at all. very frightening. with us from osaka, japan, nbc news correspondent hans nickel. what was the interaction like
between donald trump and vladimir putin? >> i'm sure there were no note takers there. >> well, we don't know about the note takers and what happened behind closed doors but what we know is that vladimir putin administered truth serum to donald trump because he seems to say exactly what he thinks. and in this case it's clear, president trump doesn't think that russian meddling was a problem in 2016. he doesn't seem to think it will be a problem in 2020. and guys, i think it's important to note that the president didn't volunteer this information. he was asked by a reporter -- by nbc's -- will he ask russia not to meddle in the election and then he says of course, and then he says to putin and says don't meddle. i don't think anyone can look at what the president said there and take him literally. they can take him seriously and that he doesn't think that russia is a serious threat and a
direct challenge to america's democracy. and one other point, guys, the president clearly, clearly has his mind on the election back home. he talked about it after merkel. we talked about the debate and he talked about socialism and levelled a new charge against the democrats claiming -- this is almost a device he uses, a gimmick, claiming that there's a rumor that the democrats are going to be renaming their party the socialist party so he could do what republicans have done for a long time and that's accuse democrats of socialism. so we have more of the day to get through here, but the president clearly focused back home as much as he is on the important issues here in osaka. guys? >> hans nichols, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. and willie, we have a couple ways to go here, but let's first talk about donald trump. i go back to december 17, 2015, donald trump came on our show. and he was complimentary of vladimir putin and when he said -- when he kills
journalists and political opponents donald trump said, well, we kill a lot of people in america too. since that time, there's been a lingering question mark over the president's head. why is he vladimir putin's puppet when it comes to meddling in american democracy? >> and he's never done anything since then to dispel us of that notion. again, go read the mueller report if you want to fully understand it. but sometimes you don't have to read the mueller report. he's joking with vladimir putin he thinks it's ridiculous and absurd he should have to address that when there are instances of meddling again and again. that robert mueller made clear, the first line of the report, russia took an aggressive campaign on behalf of donald trump and the other part of this, it's not clear to anyone that much is being done to stop that in 2020. which makes it doubly bad he's encouraging it as he did yesterday. >> let me follow up on the second part of the question and adrienne i'll go to you on in
this one. i hope i don't put you in a difficult position but the charge against democrats from donald trump has always been that they're socialists. when you have the leading contenders of the democratic party saying that the government is going to take over all health care and you're not going to be able to choose the doctor you want to choose, like you said all those things that when you dig -- medicare for all, by the way, an awesome bumper sticker. >> sure. >> an awesome bumper sticker, but when pew went down and started digging, what does this mean? first of all, you're not going to be able to keep your doctor. >> right. >> you're not going to be able to make your health care choices. the government is taking that over for you. support plummets. so did the democrats play into donald trump's hands last night, when the contenders said, yes, medicare for all and we're getting rid of health care -- private health care coverage for 180 million americans?
>> i think to a certain extent they did because you saw the democrats on the stage taking that position with medicare for all. no matter who the nominee is in the general election they have to do a little bit of back tracking. but at the same time, i'm convinced that it does not matter who the nominee is, donald trump is going to paint that person as a socialist. right? it could be bernie sanders, it could be kamala harris, it could be joe biden. that nominee will be a socialist. we are seeing this silly tweet third grade, you know, playground antics. rumor is going around about being a socialist, he'll keep it going and he wants us to be frankly to be having this conversation because it plays into his hand in terms of i'm a capitalist, the republicans are going to allow you to keep your health care. keep your money. democrats want to take it all away. and create essentially a socialist society. >> all right. coming up, it was one of the most talked about moments from last night's debate. senator kamala harris telling joe biden a story about a little girl in california who was bussed to school and the little
girl was her. that is ahead on "morning joe." >> i have been watching the debates a little bit in between meetings and i wasn't impressed. but when you look at the socialism and you look at what it can do, that's what you're talking about there. and, you know that's become like the socialist party. in fact, i heard -- there's a rumor that the democrats are going to change the name of the party from the democrat party to the socialist party. i'm hearing that. the socialist party. i'm hearing that ♪ limu emu & doug mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him.
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the police force in south bend is now 6% black. in a city that is 26% black. why has that not improved over your two terms as mayor? >> because i couldn't get it done. i could walk you through all of the things that we have done as a community. all of the steps that we took from bias training to de-escalation, but it didn't save the life of eric logan. until we move policing out from the shadow of systemic racism, whatever this particular incident teaches us we will be left with a bigger problem with the fact that there's a wall of mistrust. i think that the question they're asking in south bend, i think it's across the country, is why has it taken so long?
>> look, we have taken so many steps toward police accountability that the fop denounced me for too much accountability. we're not there yet, and -- >> you should fire the chief. >> so under indiana law, this will be investigated and there will be accountability for the officer involved. >> but you're the mayor, you should fire the chief. if that's the policy and someone died. >> all right. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> all right. that's mayor buttigieg who will be on the show in about 22 minutes. he was addressing the racial unrest after an officer involved shooting in the city earlier in month and he discussed the lack of diversity on the south bend police force and defended his leadership against challenges from former colorado governor hickenlooper and california congressman eric swalwell.
so he had a good performance last night. >> i thought he did very well. michael steele, what was so strange about that interaction, especially coming from eric swalwell was, mayor pete had just explained we're in the middle of an investigation. we have due process. we will take action after the investigation is complete. and then eric swalwell just shouted out as people were doing all night, shouting things out, you're the mayor, you should fire him after explaining we have to do the investigation first. >> well, what i loved -- >> he knows better. >> is the look that mayor pete gave him at that moment which will be a meme going forward, a stare down, like really? eric was trying to establish his place on the stage. and that was very clear from the very beginning. as was senator gillibrand.
they were both yipping at the heels, at the presumed front-runners. for mayor pete, however, i think that was a very sobering moment and it showed a level of maturity and presence. and how personal it was for him to sort of start that conversation was, i failed. he took ownership of what happened in his -- what was happening in his community. and i think it set a real big contrast because i'm not sure that an eric swalwell would have been so quick to say, yeah, this happened on my watch, i'm responsible for it. as opposed to jumping in to the fight and trying to pin the mayor down, well, you need to investigate and fire someone and after the mayor just said, i'm investigating and we'll see where this takes us. >> john heilemann, this brings up a good point, not only this debate, but it happens with the republican and the democratic
debates, everybody wants to jump out and wants to be the most aggressive. everybody wants to raise their hand. nobody wants to be standing alone. i think it bears reminding at this point that donald trump often set himself apart in 2016 by not going along with the pack. >> right. >> not raising his hand and also i think the best example of this, bill clinton, 1992. everybody talks about the sister soulja moment, there were a thousand moments where bill clinton would say in a debate when it wasn't a popular thing to say, well, you know the republicans did this and you know what, they were right. we should learn from that. which then would give him the credibility to say other things that actually would play to the base. but talk about the importance of that, setting yourself apart and not just blindly going along, playing to the worst instincts of your republican or your democratic base. >> i can't think of a -- of someone who's won the office of
the presidency in my lifetime who hasn't at some point or another in the process had to confront the base of their own party on an -- where they say you're wrong and that -- you know, think about donald trump on a certain number of issues, think of george w. bush, going all the way back, there comes a moment that you have to be in line with the base of the party in order to win the nomination and to be president of the united states there's a couple of issues that you have to demonstrate political courage and what that definitionally is taking a position that is in opposition to the vast majority of the people who are in your coalition. i think it's early in this contest and whoever is going to be the democratic nominee eventually that moment is going to come. but the problem for the people in this race, on the edges of this debate the ones who recognize that after this next set of debates in july that the criteria for getting on the debate stage is going to get tougher, they're all very thirsty to try to make a moment,
to try to do something that will get them some name recognition because they recognize if they don't do that, they're going to be off the island pretty quick. so those people are not in the courage business. they're not in the base confrontation business. they're in the get noticed business and i think it says -- in most of the cases for most of those people they're not only off the island but they won't be the nominee of their party in this cycle. >> your point, joe, is the hand raised in the room, the cheer you got from it, the line you deliver that gets the cheer in that room may come back to haunt you down the road. it feels good in the moment. >> definitely. >> you may even believe it. but when you get to a general election against donald trump he's already doing it this morning. he's going to bludgeon you. >> as i mentioned we'll talk to mayor pete just ahead, top of the 7:00 hour. but first we'll speak with one white house hopeful who did not get to participate in the first democratic debate, but has a lot to say. montana senator steve bullock joins the conversation next on
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i would make it an earned benefit, just like social security, so that you buy in your whole life, it is always there for you. it's permanent and it's universal. >> you take medicare a flavor of that, you make it available that people can buy in. >> the quickest and fastest way to do it is to build on obama care. everyone has an option. everyone whether they have private insurance, employer insurance or no insurance, they in fact can buy in on the exchange to a medicare like plan. >> i find it hard to believe that every other major country on earth including my neighbor 50 miles north of me canada somehow has figured out a way to provide health care to every man, woman and child and in most cases they're spending 50% per
capita what we are spending. >> when senator sanders says that canada is single payer, there are 35 million people in canada. there are 330 million people in the united states, easily the number of people on a public option that could -- that could easily be 35 million. for them it would be medicare for all. as mayor buttigieg says, but for others that they want to keep it they should be able to keep it. [ applause ] joining us now democratic presidential candidate and chair of the national governors association, governor steve bullock of montana who i think joe, maybe in some ways he's the lucky one. >> yeah. you're the lucky one. nobody yelled at you last night, governor, so congratulations on being so astute in planning this out. so, governor, what's your take
on what you saw last night? we'll get into the specifics but overall, was last night a net win or a net loss for the democratic party and those of us who want donald trump to be sent home next year? >> yeah. instead of being with you, mika and joe, i was actually at town halls in iowa and new hampshire. folks that actually vote. look, i didn't get to see the whole thing, but from my perspective that i think what people want is somebody who can one, beat donald trump. two, gets the issues and the challenges that people's lives face and get some things done. we can't have debates that seem disconnected from what people need in their daily lives. and so i think that we still have quite a bit of work to do to make that all happen. now, when it comes to beating donald trump, i'm the only one in this field that actually won in a trump state because we need to bring both our base and win back some of the places that we lost. and folks are really looking for
hearing about how their lives will be impacted. actual voters. and we have got to show that we can get things done. you know, even in this divided time i have been able to get meaningful things done like medicaid expansion, health care for folks, freezing college tuition. by the end of all of this, i know we're way early to do it but the average folks out there have to believe that we could actually as democrats improve their lives and fight for them. >> so we'll ask you the question that the candidates were asked on the stage about health care for illegal immigrants. where do you stand on that? >> look, i think we have that a humanitarian crisis on the border, but no, i would not be providing insurance for those that have come into our country without documentation. >> okay. there you go. >> and so you would have stood alone on that one and the
overwhelming majority of americans i'm guessing would be with you on that. we'll find out in the coming days. let me is ask you a question about medicare for all. many of them support medicare for all and if you dig down into it the pure meaning of that, the bernie sanders, elizabeth warren meaning of that is that 180 million americans lose their private health care insurance and lose access to their doctors and to medical providers that they have right now. would you support that? >> look, health care can be accessible and affordable without disrupting 180 million folks. i would support a public option, about buying into the medicare option and with the cost of prescription drugs that the federal government could negotiate for drug prices. and we need to get rid of out of network billing. the surprise medical billing but you can do that without completely up ending the care that folks get and those who have employer sponsored insurance which is somewhere
between 150 and 180 million americans. >> governor bullock, it's willie geist. good to see you. joe biden entered the delegate with a big lead as the front-runner. do you believe he looked like a strong front-runner last night? >> well, i think at the end of the day, willie, that's for the voters to decide. but i think, you know, look, we have 225 days before the first voter actually expresses their preference. and we have got to make sure that we have somebody that can beat donald trump. i think from where -- when i travel that's number one for folks is making sure that trump isn't president come 2020. and i think that i have something to offer there that a lot of folks don't. >> adrienne? >> governor bullock, you tweeted last night that we have not heard any answers on how to stand up for rural communities and win back the places that we lost. what exactly were you talking about when you referenced that? >> thanks, adrienne. i think there's a lot of discussion, there's not the
voices -- it's washington, d.c. and our party isn't always connecting with rural areas. you know, you look over the last decade about two-thirds of the counties in this country lost businesses. shouldn't have to leave your school or your church or synagogue or your community just to have a decent job. and i think the challenge -- you know, there's a lot of this discussion in the democratic party about well, do we bring out our base or do we get back those obama or trump voters and the fact is we have to be able to do both. if we don't win places like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania again, we're not going to win this election. so we have got to be able to be competitive in both but we have to be talking about what matters in people's lives. you know, my town halls in new hampshire and iowa in the last two days, what i heard is folks talking ago everything from farm prices. will i continue to keep my farm, to the quality of public schools
to the basic economic issues that impact people every single day when they're trying to turn around and say, can i have a better life and can i provide a better life for my kids and grandkids. >> michael steele? >> michael steele here. a question, hey, the democrats seem to be having an identity crisis and the president is sort of exasperating this, talking about there's rumors about the democrats changing their name to the socialist party. that aside, there is an undercurrent of -- trying to understand exactly where the democratic party is as joe and others have pointed out on a policy proscription point, they seem to be leaning more in this government can do it all for you environment. what's your take of where the democratic party is and as the future titular head of the party as president how do you navigate that divide that seems to be growing within the ranks of the
democratic party? >> well, i think that there's a lot of both great energy and diversity in the democratic party right now. that needs to be focused to make sure that we can beat donald trump. i mean, each and every day as we're up and out talking it can't all be about donald trump. there's nothing more than the president would like is to make this all about him and him to categorize of us not being connected to the average voter. the average folks, life is too busy to even tune into the sort of debates. so we need to be able to go forward and say you know what, this guy said he'd drain the swamp. it's swampier than ever. look at the trump tax cuts, trillion stock buy backs they didn't go most people come to vote in november and the people that cleaned that bar that you're at today, they pay more
taxes than most of the fortune 500 companies. government can be a constructive partner, not do everything for you though. >> governor bullock, great to hear what you have to say. thank you very, very much for being on. coming up on "morning joe," we still have four more democratic presidential candidates to talk to. senator kamala harris and senator kirsten gillibrand will join us to discuss their debate performances last night. and colorado senator michael bennet will be here. but first, south bend mayor pete buttigieg joins the conversation. we have a packed show ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. when did you see the sign?
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influence over the economic and political life of this country. >> these issues -- >> senator harris -- senator harris, i'm so sorry. we'll let you all speak. senator harris, senator harris. we will let you all speak. senator harris. >> hey, guys, you know what? america does not want to witness a food fight. they want to know how we'll put food on their table. [ cheers and applause ] welcome back to "morning joe." live from miami. it is friday, june 28th. joining joe, willie and me we have -- >> what are you eating there? >> so a complete stranger picked these mangoes in his yard and gave them to me. >> did your mother not tell you never eat a complete stranger's mangoes? >> i can't help it. they're so good. thank you. he's right there at the bar.
>> coral gables. >> i love mangoes. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent, kasie hunt. and the host of msnbc "politicsnation" and the president of the action networks, reverend al sharpton is here. and get ready for the big applause, democratic presidential candidate mayor pete buttigieg of south bend, indiana. [ cheers and applause ] all right. so i'll say it. >> you want to say it? >> congratulations. you did -- i think in many ways you prevailed last night. temperamentally and across the board. you're an incredible candidate. >> i mean, you could cough and mika would say that. >> no no no. that's not true. >> i'm joking. so let's talk though, first of all, about all the shouting that was going on. i noticed you were one candidate
that was not shouting. one candidate who was not shouting -- one candidate not shouting your answers. we said about fdr he had a third grade intellect, but a first rate temperament. do you think it's important to give americans an alternative to donald trump's temperament? >> i think what we have is a sense that washington is filled with shouting that, you know, everybody on capitol hill is shouting at each other. the president is shouting at us all of us. to be fair when there's 20 candidates, you know, ten across each night, who are trying to get their message out, frankly this is what candidates are coached to do. right? never mind the moderators, never mind the time limit. never mind basic politeness, just get in there. at the same time, i think people are looking for a conversation or actually stop and think precisely because we have a president who doesn't do that. so there's an opportunity sometimes to show versus tell
how you're going to run things differently. and of course the balance every candidate has to think about, how do you get a word in edgewise without joining that scrum. >> one of the lightning round questions what would be the first thing you'd do as president and you didn't have a lot of time to flesh it out but you said we have to fix our democracy. everything flows from there. what did you mean specifically? that's different from fixing the economy. that's a very broad point. what did you mean by that? >> it's because every issue depends on this. >> what are you talking -- >> it's everything. we saw a reminder yesterday of what's at stake with the supreme court paving the way for partisan gerrymandering. you can gerrymander based on party, but not on race and of course it's racial gerrymandering, but they give it a different name. that's one example of the many ways in which our democracy is being twisted. unfair districts, unfair influence of money. unfair set-up when it comes to the electoral college overruling people.
the way it's hard to register to vote. much of which helps keep people who are disadvantaged more disadvantaged. the reason i think we have to deal with this on day one is every other issue that we care about is going to be hard to fix until our democracy is decent. some of the things i'm talking about, the electoral college will take years but you have to start on day one. they were on the anti-corruption pro democracy hr-1 which the house passed, only the sky in the senate, we have to act on these. we'll see the universal background checks on guns that americans want to see something happen and washington cannot deliver. >> abolishing the electoral college you're for that. and expand another seat on the supreme court. >> it's about reforming the supreme court to make it less political. the court is coming day by day to be nakedly viewed as a partisan place and i floated a
number of reforms the one dramatic is to have 15 seats but five of the justices could only be appointed by unanimous agreement of the other ten. there are legal scholars advancing this as a reform. we have done about half a dozen changes to the size and makeup of the court. i think we have to entertain deep and perhaps, you know, unprecedented structural solutions. that may not be the right answer. there may be others, but on day one we have to set up a commission of the most respected legal scholars and get this done. >> rev, i want to ask you very quickly before you ask mayor pete a question, what was your take on the shouting? >> i thought it was not good for the entire democratic party because i think that in many ways it said to the public who are not insiders in either party that the same kind of bedlam and confusion you see daily out of trump is being duplicated by the democrats. we have to be -- if we're going
to be an alternative you have to behave like an alternative and it kind of became bizarre. i don't think you want to replace democratic havoc with -- for republican havoc. we have had all of the noise from the master of noise, mr. trump. you don't want to show you can be just as noisy. >> but you want to stand out. >> but you have to something to say. but mayor pete, with the police killing in south bend and you called me and you called others after and i think that was good. i think what i was missing from what you said last night -- i thought you made a very good statement, is what is the plan and what was the plan to deal with the lack of diversity in the south bend police? the question was, how do you have six blacks on a police force that 26% of the city is black. and you said you failed which is admirable. but failed at what? what was their plan? and will you make this police
chief come with a plan or fire him like you helped get rid of the last police chief who was black? because it's time for somebody to be held accountable. due process has to be given to policeman. somebody has to be held accountable for the killing of logan, but you don't need due process i want to a plan on my desk on how we'll deal with the lack of diversity or you're out of here like the last one. >> i can walk you through all the things we tried to do, but while i'm proud of the diversity in my office and the top team on the commission that does the hiring and firing of police officers, when it comes to the rank and file this has been a huge struggle. we have had work in schools to try to cultivate diverse people to a career in law enforcement, we have reached out -- we have even hired psychologists or engaged with behavioral researchers to figure out what kind of recruiting messages will respond to more. if you're watching you can go on to the police transparency hub in south bend and see some of
the data that we're publishing about where applicants of different backgrounds fall off in the process. this is a south bend problem, but this is a national problem. attracting people in general and attracting people of color to the career of policing is a huge challenge. i'm going to own up to the fact that we haven't got there and we're going to look at what the cities that are most effective at this have done. because clearly there's more we can be doing that we haven't hit on yet. >> so eric swalwell talked about passing the torch to a new generation. you talked about the need for a new generation. of leadership. echoing john kennedy's call. after watching joe biden on stage last night, do you think that maybe his time is up? that his time has past him by? >> i believe that you need a vision of that. i believe a person of any age could be a great candidate.
but is it backed by a vision that explains what our generation is supposed to deliver? i think the homework for my generation is clear. deal with climate change before it deals with us. achieve tremendous strides in racial equality before systemic racism tears apart the country in my lifetime. and we have to get cracking on that right away. now, you don't have to have a young candidate for young voters or an older candidate for older voters. i think part of what you saw last night was the range of diversity in our party and that includes obviously a lot of generational diversity too. >> all right. >> i totally take your point on how, you know, the candidates' age doesn't have to line up with the bloc of voters but on this biden question, i think you saw some of this from kamala harris on the stage, the suggestion is that he's simply been in politics too long. he's been around washington too long. and that the country has changed the par -- the party has changed
without him seeing that. do you think that's the case? >> yeah, especially for a lot of the issues. some of the issues we just got to think about them and talk about them differently in our time. i do think that is a struggle. if you have been in a certain pattern, you're used to certain things because it's how it's worked in washington for a very long time. i also think the challenge we have at the moment like this, there's a temptation to play it safe in the democratic party. that's almost always been self-defeating but that temptation is there because we know how important it is to defeat donald trump and out of that is arising the message that what we we're going to offer as a party is we're being to go back to normal. we're going to return to what we were doing before. that's a very dangerous message for us to adopt because normal didn't work. not in the industrial midwest where i live. it's because of the failure of our economic and political normal. that so many people were willing to vote for somebody they didn't even like which is this current president. if we look like we're trying to
promise that we'll go back to the 2000s or 1990s even if that's a kind of the implied in our messaging then i think we'll lose a lot of people because we can't keep that promise any more than trump can keep the promise of turning america back to the 1950s. >> not to get generational on you, but my 23-year-old daughter says, tell mayor pete he did a great job last night. did you want to say something? >> yeah, i think we can say we can't oversimplify the generational thing. because joe biden has had a race problem and you have a race problem. you're the youngest guy. we need to have -- >> so interesting. >> we need people who will stand up to every generation i. don't want a young guy doing me wrong any more a than i want an old man doing me wrong. >> yeah, how has the rev done right in this case? >> we talked about the specific issue -- >> can i ask you, for instance, are you saying that you have a
problem with applicant pool? because it sounds like your answer was that you have had outreach to a diverse community. but at some point in the application process some of the more diverse candidates fall off and are not qualified, at least in the applicant pool that you're getting. has that been a problem? >> that's part of it, yeah. we have actually mapped out at each step where we're most likely to lose a diverse applicants and are there ways that doesn't predict someone who will be a good officer. we have high standards and if there's a dispirit impact that's hurting us in having a more diverse department and of course diversity in the police department just part of this bigger challenge of wrestling with systemic racism and the way that's impacted police work. and part of my message to police
departments -- i spoke to recruits recently who are just graduating even the best human being ever to wear the uniform is still burdened with what the uniform carries with it. every time we see cell phone video of some shocking abusive treatment of a black -- usually a black man at the hands of police, every time we look deep into history and also into this moment, this is something that makes it harder for any place department to do their job. you know, dealing with regular gun violence, not police violence, but regular violence between civilians one of the most important things to deal with that is police legitimacy, because you need witness and victim cooperation in order to make sure that people turn to the police rather than taking matters into their own hands and leads to cycles of retaliation. you can't have that if people don't trust the police. that's why it's so urgent and a matter of life and death that we tear down that wall of mistrust. >> we'd love to have you on and talk more especially with reverend al. these are complicated issues.
it's an important conversation. mayor pete buttigieg, thank you very much. >> congratulations. >> good job last night. all right, still ahead on "morning joe" three more democratic presidential candidates. senators kamala harris and michael bennet will both join the conversation here in miami and first senator kirsten gillibrand joins the conversation next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. geico makes it easy to get help when you need it. with licensed agents available 24/7. it's not just easy. it's having-a-walrus-in-goal easy! roooaaaar! it's a walrus! ridiculous! yes! nice save, big guy! good job duncan! way to go! [chanting] it's not just easy. it's geico easy. oh, duncan. stay up. no sleepies.
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even if she stands alone. [ applause ] welcome back to "morning joe." 20 past the hour. joining us now presidential candidate senator kirsten gillibrand of new york. great to have you on this morning. >> oh -- >> that was a wonderful moment. it's an incredible moment for women in this political moment. where we're really stepping forward and i think breaking through stereotypes. how did it feel last night? >> it was real exciting to be there. and i did have a chance to speak directly to america's women about the moment that we're in. in fact, the president trump and over 30 legislatures across the country emboldened by his desire to overturn roe v. wade it's a moment for us to speak out. be heard and speak out for our basic human rights. >> how do you feel you squared up against the other candidates? it was ten on stage. a lot of us are talking about it
being a free-for-all too much, but yet again the analysis is you have to show you can take on trump. it's quite a balance to strike, isn't it? >> well, i think i showed i can stand up to trump and be on a debate stage and not be bull lid or overshadowed and just imagine what it would be like to have a working mom in the white house and all she could do as opposed to a misogynist. >> exactly. that would be a nice difference so to speak. >> let's talk about health care. you know, there's a move toward medicare for all. there's talk of eliminating private insurance altogether. you sort of explained in the clip how you would get there over the course of time do you worry that the people who are watching, maybe voted for donald trump last time or thinking about leaving him, i like what she says, but i don't want my employer subsidized health care taken from them. >> well, they recognize without basic health care their child or
their husband or their family could be at great risk of death or just disease. so people want to know they can afford it. it's there for them and high quality. everyone loves medicare. you ask your mother or your father, yeah, it covers all the things that i need. so when i was running for congress in a district and i talked to my voters i knew they needed health care. so i suggested how about buying the medicare at a price you can afford as a public option, to compete with private insurancers and make sure coverage is available for you no matter what and they loved it. when senator sanders was working on the medicare for all bill, i was asked if i could work on the transition. you need to allow americans to have a choice. they need to look at this as an option, try it out, see if they like it. what i believe the insurance companies will try to work to
compete f you can go to the dock forces, the same providers but pay less money for it you'll choose that. that's how you get to universal coverage and ultimately single payer. create a buy-in people, let people choose and i wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of americans make that choice and if they do, your step to single payer is so short and you say let's make it an earned benefit just like social security. >> you're saying let's have a market based -- that you believe people will drift toward. >> i think they'll choose it because it's higher quality and less expensive and the truth is you can't build universal coverage on the backs of for profit insurance companies. because they always have the requirement to pay shareholder, value, they pay their ceos millions of dollars and it's an enormous amount of fat in the system not going to health care. so medicare with the low overhead is going to overcompete them every day of the week. i dare them to compete and to
the fact that they want to be there for the bells and whistles they can be do that. they'll provide whatever products they can make money on it. it can't be whether you can afford it. that's how you get there in a not for profit way. >> but the transition, if you get through the transition and get to bernie sanders' position, how do you assure americans that they can still go to the doctor that they like? >> correct. the two things they need to change and you heard this on other debate stages you need to make sure that the reimbursement rate reflects cost. a lot of doctors won't take medicare or even some insurance because they don't think their compensation is fair. so if you're going to build on medicare, you better make sure that it reflects cost and that's why there's transparency requirements this year. we passed it into law last year. if you make sure it reflects costs everyone will want to take it and the vast majority of americans will be on it in five years. >> isn't that billions and billions of more dollars?
i have a good friend who is a surgeon who said, i cannot do complicated surgeries with the fear of being sued and get $850 for a complicate surgery that i may have another specialist who's been a surgeon for 25 years next to me. we can't do it for $850. >> so that's why you need to make sure the reimbursement rates are accurate and the second thing you have to do is take on the drug companies. one of the worst things in washington is that all these deals get made in the dead of night so when they pass the medicare part "d" they said to the insurance companies, no worries we'll make sure you don't have to negotiate for the lowest price. medicare will pay whatever price you want them to. so make sure medicare patients get the lowest price for drugs. that will also lower costs. and it's how you can get the economies of scale you need to lower costs overall. >> senator, big picture last night, democratic voters tell us
every time we -- you know, ask them in this question, the most important thing to them is beating donald trump. do you think the front-runner joe biden demonstrated he could beat donald trump on a debate statement. >> i think i demonstrated i can take on donald trump on the debate state. >> do you think joe biden can, he said he's the most electable. what's your analysis of how he did? >> my job is not to comment on the qualifications or the strength of the male candidates in the race. my job is to tell the american people why i'm the strongest candidate in this race. and why i have a vision for america that's stronger and better. i'm the only candidate who talk as. >> terry: real problem in washington, the greed and the corruption that stops all progress. because money in politics is choking this system. i have a comprehensive approach to have clean elections to take on political corruption directly and it doesn't matter how many plans you have or how much experience you won't get it done if you're not willing to go at
the crux of the problem which is how washington works. >> but you could have a 25-point plan that makes a lot of sense and donald trump can take it down with a slogan, how do you fight that? >> i think by having a bolder vision for this country. i think donald trump lied to people. he said i'm going to drain the swamp. he filled it up with all his cronies and people all they do is benefit from the sweetheart deals that donald trump makes. look at the tax bill alone. and i mentioned it last night. you had republican members of congress saying oh, gosh, we have to get this tax bill done because we have to pay back the donors. that's the corruption and greed in washington. >> don't you feel that part of what has to happen also is that the party and the nominee whoever it is must energize people in understanding that we're really at a cross roads on how we'll governor. we're moving back toward a states rights model in this country. the gerrymandering decision yesterday. we have to get people a reason to vote beyond who the nominee
and the personality is. i don't think people understand trump is representing a shift back toward a weaker national government, one dictator. and the states are making their own decision which is a threat to women's rights, lgbtq rights and civil rights. that's where we're headed. >> so rev, he wants federal law when it helps his donors and he's rolled back all the federal protections when it comes to polluting air and water and when he wants states rights to take away our voting rights, to take away lgbtq rights he's all for it. it's all about taking away our voices and you have to start by cleaning up the government, passing clean elections, why you need to restore the voting rights. and it's why you need to put the power of the democracy into the hands of the people. >> people vote for the legislators because as joe
pointed out yesterday, these state legislators bodies are all right wing republicans. >> we have over 30 states that are trying to overturn roe v. wade, trying to take away all women's reproductive rights. basic human rights and civil rights and our agency to make decisions about when we're having children and how many and under what circumstances. >> senator kirsten gillibrand, great to have you on. >> thank you so much. >> come back. thank you very up much. coming up, she had some of the most talk about moments of last night's debate. senator kamala harris our fourth presidential candidate of the morning is standing by. she joins our conversation next on "morning joe."
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in this campaign, we have also heard and i'm going to now direct this at vice president biden. do i not believe you're a racist and i agree with you when you commit yourself to finding common ground. but i also believe -- it's personal and i was actually very -- it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations
of two united states senators who built their reputation and career on the segregation of race in this country. and it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing. and, you know, there was a little girl in california who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools and she was bussed to school every day. and that little girl was me. >> the mischaracterization of my position across the board. did not praise racists. that's not true. number two, if we want this campaign litigated on who supports civil rights and whether i did or not, i'm happy to do that. i was a public defender. i didn't become a prosecutor. i left a good law firm to become a public defender when in fact -- in fact when my city was in flames because of the assassination of dr. king. >> do you agree today that you
were wrong to oppose busing in america then? do you agree? >> i did not oppose busing in america. what i opposed is busing order by the department of education that's what i opposed. [ applause ] >> all right. that was part of a heated exchange between joe biden and kamala harris during last night's debate in which the senator criticized the former vice president's record on race, following his recent comments on working with segregationists during his time in the senate. joining us now, 2020 democratic presidential candidate, senator kamala harris. and i think -- i believe this woman owns the room. [ cheers and applause ]
all right. >> i will -- i will say, john heilemann, that's the loudest applause i ever heard for you. >> sometimes i'm lucky with you as my wing woman. >> senator, i was talking off camera with you and i asked what year that was. you said '72. i was in mississippi in '69, '70. the first year mississippi was integrated and i said -- this has to do with generational change, i said what a blessing it was -- >> there's a picture. >> -- to see that as normal. >> yeah. >> integration normal. >> right. >> my older brother and sister went through a lot more turmoil. i'm just wondering is that part of joe biden's problem? part of bernie sanders' problem? it's a generational thing where that was normal for us in our own settings.
but for somebody older, they're still living, they grew up in a different america. >> you know, the way think about it on any issue and so on so many issues that will is come up on that debate stage, we have to understand the real impact on real human beings if we're going to have a meaningful discussion and if that is based on fact and if it's going to be based on truth. so the point that i was raising last night is that the conversation about segregationists and who they were and what they did in america cannot just be an intellectual conversation. it has to be grounded in the experience of real people. i cannot tell you the number of people -- now strangers who have reached out to me since last night talking about how they were bussed in the '70s. and that the comments about what the segregations were were hurtful to them and they were appreciating that there was some
airing out of what that experience was. that's how i think about it. frankly that's how i think about every issue. when we were talking about the issue of immigration. all of us tries to compel us what a mother in that situation is thinking and doing that causes her to put her child into potential peril. you because of course what that child is fleeing is even worse. what is our immigration policy about if we tell them to go back where they came from? that's what i have in mind when i say that mine is a 3:00 in the morning agenda. let's think about the issues. and the way they really impact real people when they wake up in the middle of the night, trying to figure out how to make it all work. >> so a lot to get to, a lot to unwind in that answer. but i guess let's just go from 30,000 feet and ask a question and this of joe biden which is you say you know he's not racist. >> yeah. >> do you think he's racially insensitive in a way that makes him a poor fit to be president
of the united states? >> i wouldn't say that. i just think he and i have a difference of opinion. and also a difference of opinion on states rights. i was actually a bit surprised to hear how he described in defense of his position his perspective on the role of the federal government and in particular he mentioned the department of education. you know, that is why i said, look, we have so many examples in history of where states have limited or restricted people's civil rights so that is why we agreed and fought for the voting rights act. which of course is about the federal government saying, look, if you all are going to trample on people's voting rights then the federal government is going to step in because we have certain values that are national standards and we won't let states compromise that. >> all right.
i know busing was unpopular in the '70s. >> yeah. >> i know busing was unpopular the last time that there was a poll was taken and if you went to liberty city you'll find the segregated schools. in harlem, the bronx, the segregated schools. we don't support busing right now -- >> joe, you're right to talk about the trajectory of this issue. and so if -- so to have a comprehensive conversation about it i think we need to talk about 1954 and the significance of brown v board of educationwhich if the supreme court had not decided it i would not be sitting here as a member of the united states senate and as a serious contender for the united states of america.
when brown v board of education was decided and then busing followed, that was the way we'll integrate schools that was the beginning of certain families from -- beginning of the flight of certain families from public schools that's why one of my issues is about what we need to do to pay teachers their value. because over the course of that period of time we have also devalued and pulled resources from the public education in america. yes, you see the segregated schools but it's about socioeconomic status of families. the families that can afford to put their kids in private schools do because the resources are there for a better education often. teachers are paid better. so that's why one of my proposals that i'm very proud of is to say let's pay teachers their value and i'm prepared as president to have the first federal investment to the teacher pay gap being closed in
america. >> let me end. so many questions we could do this all day. at least i could. but let me end with one question that you'll certainly hear from conservatives. you'll certainly hear from donald trump if you win the nomination. and that is that he could quote, for instance, the president of the urban league in miami, who said it is liberals that are actually stopping poor black children and their parents in miami or in harlem from being able to go to the schools of their choice now because like for instance, harlem village academies, there's a quota. teachers unions do not want to allow children to make those sort of choices, parents to make those sort of choices to be able to go to the schools they want to go to. >> but you know, there's so much about that argument that really is motivated by folks who do not value public education. and are attempting to privatize
education. >> what about parents who want to make the choices -- >> we have to listen to parents, we have to listen to parents and we have listen and respect to the decisions they want and need to make in the best interest of their children. but if we're talking about how do we do with a system and what's the best public policy to improve education for our children and the vast majority of our children, that is about putting more resources in to public education. paying our teachers better. understanding that our system is upside down when we fund school districts based on the tax base of that community so guess what? >> right. >> the lowest tax base has the fewest resources and not by coincidence has the highest need. it's bananas the way we're doing public education in this country and we have to get better if we're going to compete -- if we're going to compete. >> willie? >> senator, put a bow on your back and forth with vice president biden last night.
he says that the case against him -- his comments talking about the segregationist senators is bonus here. that what he was saying was you have to deal with people when you're in the united states senate like segregationists to get things done. we have to win out, our ideas have to prevail, but you have to work with people like that if you want to win in the senate. do you believe he was sympathizing with the segregationists or do you accept his explanation saying you have to deal with everybody to get things done? >> there is no question that we have got to find common ground. and i -- in fact, when i arrived at the united states senate about two years ago, that was one of my main focus -- areas of focus. in fact, that's why i'm proud that two of my most significant pieces of legislation are bipartisan. one to reform the cash money bail system in the united states.
and we had sponsors on that. someone with whom i disagree with many things, but we agree on this vehemently which is rand paul. >> wow. >> i wish the majority leader would put this on the floor for a vote which has to do with the need to upgrade america's election system and why? guess what, news alert, russia interfered in the election for president of the united states and we need to have a stronger system. the cosponsor on that -- lead cosponsor on that is a fellow with whom i serve on the senate intelligence committee and the senate homeland committee, james lankford. >> vice president's point you have to work with whom you disagree -- >> of course you do. but listen, there are no segregationists in the united states senate today. >> you got it. >> thank god, and i think that at some point you have to draw the line. for those people who are saying
that they believe that the racists should not comingle and on the heels of a history of extreme pain and damage not to mention death, you have got to draw the line. >> so he shouldn't have worked with them is what you're saying? >> no, i'm saying that the characterization and the nostalgia about who they were i find to be misplaced and it was hurtful to me to hear that we would be nostalgic about people who -- if they had their way i would not serve in the united states senate. >> rev? >> i think the characterization is the problem. the problem is that not the reference -- sure you have to work with people. >> sure. >> two things that really stood out for me last night is when you raised about busing, because
a lot of people thought and joe and i have talked about this incessantly that racism stopped in the south. you came out of the northwest. i came out of the northeast. >> that's right. >> we were both bussed. we faced the same problem. >> that's right. >> i was raised -- and the civil rights before me, john lewis, jesse jackson, they grew up in the south. we went through it in the north and that's what you spoke about that last night and i wish you should explain that. and what showed encourage in the generation when we began to confront the criminal justice system you took a lot of hits going in the system to fight inside even though some in the community said we don't want to be dealing with some prosecutor, no, we need to -- and you changed the prosecutorial system. so you had -- there was gender bias and your own community said what are you a cop, no, i'm here to make sure that grandma
doesn't get her housebroken into. >> that's exactly right. i guess part of it as you mentioned it that way, rev, i'm never going to hear that you don't belong here. i don't hear those words. and so on the issue of segregation to your point and busing, in fact, i just got a note from -- this is actually -- this matches -- blends both of your points from a retired police officer who drew up in brooklyn who was bussed in the '70s in reaching out to talk about that shared experience. when we look at what we need to do to reform systems in america, i strongly believe that there is an important and a valuable role to have folks on the outside, my parents were active in the civil rights movement. my sister and i joke we grew up being surrounded by adults marching and shouting. there is also a role to be inside the room where the decisions are being made.
and to help inform and influence progression and change and reform from that place. that has been the kind of approach that i have taken throughout my career. including today.career, including today. >> john hellman. >> we just talked about criminal justice. i was watching "13th" the other day for a really good time. really good movie. it talks about a thing about which there's bipartisan agreement that we have to dismantle it, right? that's what the criminal justice reform is about. you watch that whole movie, a lot of the blame lays with the 1994 crime bill. >> yeah. >> three stripes and you're out. mandatory minimum sentences, disparity between crack and powder cocaine, death penalty, all that stuff. no one more responsible for the 1994 crime bill than joe biden. so i ask the question as we go forward, it's an issue that
matters to a lot of people, but especially african-americans. what role do you think the debate over that set of issues and vice president biden's role central role in implementing some of those policies is going to have in this nomination fight? >> well, without any question, the issue of what we need to do to reform the criminal justice system i think is going to be a front and center issue in this campaign because it is an issue that needs to be front and center in america. and there is no question that that crime bill contributed to america's mass incarceration problem, including the funding and building of state prisons. but the way i think about it is, yes, again, we must remember history. we must not sugar coat it and let us move on. so my focus when it comes to
criminal justice reform is on issues about what we need to do around bail reform. my issue is what we need to do about having a department of justice unlike this department of justice under donald trump which is trying to turn back the clock and revive the war on drugs, what we need to do to understand drug poll needs to be grounded in nature, it should not be a criminal justice issue. >> do you think joe biden has a lot to answer for in that context? bill clinton a couple of years ago had to basically come out naacp and say i'm sorry for the 1994 crime bill. >> and you have to add bernie sanders to that issue, as well. bernie supported the bill, too. >> so that's my question. if you were -- i mean, part of the reason i think is joe biden claims credit for it at the time. so i just ask whether do you think he has a lot to answer for in that context? should he do what bill clinton
did and apologize because bill litton did that back in 2015 or 2016. is that important? >> i'm not going to tell joe biden what to do, but we're all going to have to speak for our records, period. >> but a lot of yuck people today are growing up in homes where the father wasn't there because of that crime bill. you know, when i came out and marched on that crime bill in '94, most of the congressional black caucus was with that. but they don't understand, it broke down a lot of our families. people were doing unfair long sentences because of that crime bill and kids were growing up without a father. that's real and that's not going away. >> and it was during that era where democrats, there was this swing. because let's go back, right, to dukakis's campaign. remember willie horton and remember dukakis as governor of massachusetts was a leader on what we needed to do to have re-entry initiatives, to have
relati rehabilitation. and then there was that one guy who did awful things and dukakis took the blame for that. and all of a sudden, democrats were labeled soft on crime. when you were soft on crime, you lost elections. that was the interpretation. so swing, let's be tough on crime and it went to an excess. and it ended up leading to the issue and the problem of mass incarceration in america. that's why i've always said, let's reject the false twist that you're soft or tough on crime and let's talk about being smart on crime. the goal should be public safety and one of the best ways to achieve it is to deal with prevention first instead of reaction. >> senator, on health care last night, you were asked to raise your hands if you believe eliminating private insurance should be part of the medicare for all proposal. you and bernie sanders both raised your hands. you've been asked and clarified this question a couple of times
over the course of the campaign. so once and for all, do you believe private insurance should be eliminated in this country? >> no. >> you don't? but you raised your hand last night. >> but the question was would you give up your private insurance for that option and i said yes. >> i think you heard it differently than others, then. >> probably, because that's what i heard. >> by the way, we have a rule by the way in future debates. no more hand raising. seriously, it -- >> exactly. >> but i do want to -- i do want to address this. >> by the way, hold on one second. >> i agree with no more hand raising. >> this is extremely important. so let's slow everything down for a second because donald trump has been tweeting, will be tweeting about democrats who want to take away people's -- 180 million people's health insurance. you're saying that you did not mean that last night, so explain to us. >> no, no. i am a proponent of medicare for
all. private insurance will exist for supplemental coverage. but under my vision of medicare fall, one, we will expands coverage to include can dental, vision, hearing aids, xh is a big issue for our seniors. also this, listen, the insurance companies for years have been putting millions of dollars into an advertising campaign and a lobbyist campaign that is to try and convince american families you need your insurance company to have your doctor. well, that's a myth and it's a fallacy. 91 pergs of the doctors in america are in medicare. so you will not lose your doctor. and the other piece of it is this. and it's the example i gave last night. do you know how many people in america are afraid to walk into an emergency room or a doctor's office or a hospital because they're looking at a $5,000 deductible? it's because the insurance companies keep jacking up costs around premiums, copays and
deductibles and then let's talk about the pharmaceutical companies, who i have taken on. as attorney general, i took on the pharmaceutical companies and i won. and i will tell you part of what we need to do to reform this health care system is bring down costs. when we have everybody in one system medicare for all, he can negotiate against the pharmaceutical companies as a group and we can also xhinish the power that insurance companies have had to make decisions about what kind of health care you get instead of your doctor making those decisions. >> to boil it down, medicare for all, available to everyone if they want it, but they have private insurance, they keep it. >> for supplemental. for supplemental coverage. otherwise, they're in medicare for all. >> so in san francisco last november, you said you were going to talk to your family on stage at the know your value event and talk about whether or not you will run. i will just say as we close, we're so glad you're running? something is happening with women this political cycle. i'm really glad. thank you very, very much. >> i know you have to go.
the most important thing, willie, the shoes. >> yeah. >> it's the shoes. she's got the chucks. >> all right. we've got another hour ahead and another presidential candidate. senator michael bennet is coming up. "morning joe" is back in a moment. up "morning joe" is back in a moment been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. i went straight to ctca. after my mastectomy, i felt like part of my identity was being taken away.
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putin, he takes the word of the russian president than after -- when it comes to a threat -- >> thank you, senator. >> and our elections. >> thank you, senator. >> these are the issues that are before us. >> mr. president, will you tell russia not to meddle in the election. >> don't meddle in the election. don't meddle in the election. >> all right, eddie. >> there you go. >> that was senator kamala harris last night during the debate and president trump a few hours later. welcome back to "morning joe" live from miami. it's friday, june 28th. joining joe, willie and me, we have eddie glaud jr., careen
john pierre and the tom brokaw who knows a thing or two about politics. take a look at tom right now. >> we're almost at the end of this morning after the debate. we'll be selecting our 41st president of the united states. and chances are, he will be one of the 12 men assembles on this stage tonight. >> can is i was appall the at tom at the democrats leader. >> i know more alive than anyone here. if you add to the dead ones george bush has met with -- >> the democrats in the opening round -- >> are you saying i'm bought and paid for? >> i'm saying this system -- >> are you saying i'm bought and paid for? >> i'm saying you're part of a system that is bought and paid for. >> will you urge legislation as quickly as possible to make it legal for gay couples to be married in the state of massachusetts?
>> can you remember a presidential election when so many people were turned off, set up, outraged by what they saw and heard? >> i think tom has the historical context, don't you? >> i certainly do, tom. >> great of to you. >> with that great historical context, tell us about what you saw last night, the night before. what has miami taught us about this? >> first of all, because i have an emeritus status, i can say this without being accused of sucking up to my bosses. but i thought these two debates were extremely important and well presented. i think the country now has a better understanding of the issues and the candidates. so the campaign really began this week here in florida. that's the first thing i'd say. then there are two realities. i was in the hall last night and people watching outside saw something different than those of us in the hall. but the people outside are the one that's count because that was a much larger audience.
and the per conception there was that the senator that you just had on, senator harris, absolutely created the movement that will probably be very important in this campaign. that will be a defining moment the way that she took on vice president -- took on the vice president. on the other hand, at the end of the debate, down in the hall, joe had a round of -- a very large crowd of admirers. so we haven't really kind of broken out yet. but everybody will be thinking about the campaign from this place forward based on what happened on this stage last night. but the important thing is, it was just the beginning. it wasn't the end. we still have a long way to go. but the important part, as well, is it was very issue oriented. and that's what counts. people are looking for that. and you get an idea of what the democratic party is going to be like, what the issues are going to be important for them. the concern that i have in some areas is that it's so divided along racial lines. you have the black vote, you
have the sxanic advocate and then you have the asian vote. and the party has to figure out a way to meld all of them rather than having them competing with each other. >> so at a point you have to say the president likes to talk about ratings, but i think it's great news that the ratings were really good for these debates. because facts were being celebrated. facts were being debated. it wasn't, you know, what we've become used to and i'm just glad to see that people were interested in and engaged in watching an extended conversation and hearing what these candidates had to say. >> this is so early. >> it is. but it's on now. >> but even early, people were engaged. did michelle bachman win an iowa straw poll several years ago? we were in the summer. i wouldn't even say sthvs the first inning. but eddie, there's two things i saw last night that i think l
impact the race if those dynamics don't change. one, bernie sanders. he wasn't bernie sanders of 202. he was brernernie sanders of 20. he seemed oddly out of step with the moment. as much as he seemed in step four years ago. joe biden. joe biden had -- this is one of the things people don't like talking about. joe biden had a bad night last night. he reminded me of ronald reagan in 1984, loosing his place at times, not being able to carry out a coach and thought in the course of a two-minute answer. >> yet who won? >> reagan won, but not because of the first debate. he won because of the second debate. so the question is can joe biden bounce back or is he going to make a lot of democratic supporters who were already nervous before last night a hell
of a lot more nerve justice? >> we're at the early stages. we're not even in the first inning. we're still taking batting practice right now. but it's very clear bernie sanders last night thought all he needed to do was to make his point, the point he's been making since 2016. but what he needed to do was go even deeper because elizabeth warren to his left or his right is actually making the claims with detail. she's showing she can talk about that agenda at a level of specificity. >> i'm glad you brought that up. we heard bernie had not prepared, 10, 15 minutes into the debate, and you could see that lack of preparation. he was reading from old lines. >> and the point is that he needs to celebrate himself because much of what was with happening on that stage was a result of his run in 2016. he has pulled the party to his position and he is not the only one on the stage talking about a
living wage. but then there was joe biden. i was watching him and watching him closely. and he felt, he looked old. he didn't seem like he was on his game. he seemed genuinely surprised when kamala harris came after him. he didn't have a response. he seemed shocked. and he didn't find his feet. so i was waiting for him to bounce back and he never did. he even ceded his time in certain places. >> and i've got to say, also, he ceded his team, but also, there were about 10 different things he could have said. 10 different ways he could have responded to kamala. every one of them would have been the right answer. instead, joe biden did something he would have never done when he was on top of his game. he resorted to states aech rights. no. you don't do that. and a democratic primary, you
don't do that in a republican primary when you're talking about race issues. when you're talking about immigration, because that is what segregationists in the deep south talked about in the 50s and the 60s and the early 70s. >> joe, it was a stunning moment. so when senator harris said to joe biden, i was the second class bused, 20 plus years after brown v. board of education, to let him know that brown v. board of education had not been implemented not only in the south, but in the northwest. and biden at that point refers to state rights? it was you're tone deaf and not on his game. >> a lot of people have been waiting to see what kamala harris would do and boy, did she deliver. you've interviewed her famously, recently. >> yes.
>> i was careful not to step between you and her in the past because i've watched you in the past defending her. what do you think she did to change the dynamic of this race where you have the front runner joe biden leading by most polls. there would be an insurgent who came in and knocked him off his game. >> she first of all prosecuted her case on stage as to why she could take on donald trump. that was very, very clear. so that was a goal that she made that moment happen just across the two hours. and the other thing is, she just took it away. she broke out of the pack. and i want to step back for a quick second and say i think biden is still going to lead in the polls after this. it's not like he's going to go down in numbers or anything like that. the problem is we have to remember his numbers were soft to begin with. so people were watching, 15 million people watched the first
day. but people are looking to see what are they going to sell? how are they going to introduce themselves? we talk about kamala harris and all the others all the time. but they were introducing themselves. and so that is what she did that was so phenomenal. she had the best moments over the last two days. one thing i want to say is the women stood out in this. warren won the first night and kamala won the second night. >> i think we're watching something happened. i think if it was one woman candidate, we would have a different dynamic. but we have, i believe, six. at this point, i think stereotypes are being broken through because there's enough of us at the table. and it's a wonderful thing to watch. you had two definitely stand out strong women. one on each night, who really crushed it and did all the
things that usually they wouldn't get a pass on. none of it struck badly. >> can i say one more thing. so the women won the night and they did it artfully and masterfully. and it was also -- it shows where the democratic party is. this is the democratic party. we had men, women, an lgbtq percentage in the seco person in the second night. >> this is an important and livelily discussion going on here, but the discussion that i'm interested in is going on this arch, tomorrow morning and tomorrow night. and it's at sales barns in iowa, it's in coffee shops in south carolina. it's in places like the headquarters of harley davidson in milwaukee. it's in the union headquarters in flint, michigan. those are the reactions that we also have to tap into.
because we're all tied in to -- >> absolutely. >> but this was the beginning of that dialogue. >> i agree with that. >> and i think we have to recognize and say to them, as well, we need to hear from you. >> so how did biden's performance play with those people last night? >> if you were a big joe guy, he was not as sharp as he needed to be. i think clearly sniert harrsena harris dominated the stage and probably raised her profile with a lot of people out there who don't live in california and are not plugged into politics yet. but her demand of language, her boldness in going after joe, and later when she was appear, chris matthews, chris said, is it over for joe? she said no, of course not, he's always going to to be a important player in this. >> so let's talk about that for a second. i remember in 2008, everybody
had buried hillary clinton's political candidacy. she lost iowa. we were going into new hampshire. she was down double digits in the polls. and you said to us, on the set, got an awful idea. why don't we let the voters decide whether hillary clinton's campaign is over or not. and that night, it's not an overstatement to say she shocked the world and won. can you just put this in perspective and explain to everybody that this is very early. we have a long, long way to go. >> the fact of the matter is, i have the ufo theory, the unforeseen will occur. there could be something internationally, economically, something going on in this
country, some of the candidates we'll find out things about them we didn't know. so the country is engaged now as a result of this. my belief is that was a great way to start it, but we have miles to go before we vote. that's what we have to keep remembering here. and issues that will emerge. i was disappointed last night we didn't have more of a discussion, for example, about the longest wars in american history that are still under way. and there are a few moments at the end of the day when they talk about it stb, military families must have been disappointed. they have people at risk in places like syria and central africa and lebanon and the fact of the matter is we need to be much more aware of that. >> i think as the field gets tighter and smaller, we'll have more extended conversations. and i do want to see that one. tom brokaw and careen jean
pierre, thank you both. still ahead on "morning joe," a show of hands. former vice president joe biden appears to confuse debate moderators last night. we'll show you exactly what we mean by that. if you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. if you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. this simple banana peel represents a bold idea: a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. but we're also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.
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do you like my work? secure your home with x1 voice control. and rest easy knowing you have professional monitoring backing you up. awarded "top pick" by cnet. demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. welcome back to "morning joe." we're live here in miami. we're breaking down all the big moments from the last two nights of the presidential debates. i was in a bad position there with tom brokaw. i had a decision to make. a full coffee fell into my purse and was pouring out of the sip hole, a venti, into my purse. do i stop tom, do i save my
purse? i went with tom. >> you did. >> i think i made the right decision. >> absolutely. >> did i make the right decision? i don't know. i think i'm wavering. former vice president joe biden caused some confusion among the moderators when it came to questions calling a show of hands. three times, biden seemed to raise his hand late and only partially, even appearing to survey the field before making his decision. >> who here would abolish their private health insurance in favor of a government run plan. senator gillibrand. >> this is a show of hands again. and hold them up for a moment so people can see. raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants. okay. vice president biden, i believe you said that your health care
plan would not cover undocumented immigrants. could you explain your position. >> i'm sorry. beg your pardon. i didn't hear you. >> i believe the show of hands, you do not raise your hands. >> no, i did. >> raise your hand if you think it should be a civil offense rather than a crime to cross the border without documentation. can we keep the hands up so we can see them. mr. vice president, i don't know if you raised your hand or were just asking to speak. >> all right. i don't know. i don't know if i like the yes/no question. i know we're trying to get a lot done in these debate necessary a short amount of time. if the answer was yes or no, we wouldn't even be having these debates. would we? >> kamala harris made the distinction here, he said, would you give up your private
insurance plan in favor of a medicare for all. she's saying she heard that as would you give up what you gave up now. >> if you the people have a health care plan, i, too, would join you. it's obviously an important distinction. >> but i think to your point why you don't do those types of questions. part of this should be by this stage in the campaign the candidate has laid out clearly where they stand on these issues. we've seen kamala harris initially saying she would repeal that part in the private sector to come back and backtrack, then get the yes and no. and then let me clarify, this is what i mean. no. you state clearly in your plan what you want. it helps us avoid these moments where you sheepishly say what you want. your plan is out here. we know now where you stand. let's talk specifically about what it means. >> i simply wouldn't raise my hand. i let everybody know, we're
going into this debate. do you love america? i'm not going to raise my hand. then you can ask why don't you love america? then i will give my answer why i love america. do not raise your hand. this really -- and they do it every four years and every four years it confuses people. in this case, it looks like joe biden. was he confused last night or not? >> let's give him a generous read and say in certain instances, he was trying to get the moderator's intention so he could intervene. in other moments, he looked like he was surveying the field and he was making his own decision based upon what he saw. so on some level -- >> one of those questions, everyone he kind of looked around at each other and then the hands came up. so that's, to your point, joe, those questions feel like gotcha questions. even though i have a firm plan that i put out on the street, when you hear it put back to you in that kind of a question in that moment, there is a
hesitation or pause that candidates go through, which is why -- >> because it's serious. >> okay. >> i got a photo to share for flashback friday. a lot went on yesterday in this 2005 snapshot. we see then mayor of denver john hickenlooper and denver public schools superintendent michael bennet speak to go a crowd in a much different setting than last night. that will be interesting. up next, senator michael bennet joins the conversation. also want to share what happened yesterday. we were at telemundo for much of the day. we're looking at a partnership with know your partnership and telemundo. and also last night, all of us were at books & books talking about know your book series as well as willie's dad books, ozarks, lake of the ozarks.
and we had so many fun, everyone was drinking wine and, joe, you did a great job handling that crowd. >> you know why i did a great job? because i was not drinking wine. i was drinking water. so they laughed at most of the jokes. willie, let's announce it again. this is big news. we learned it last night. your father's book, back in the top ten. now -- i think it's official, it is sold more copies than the gutenberg bible. how does that make you feel? >> lake of the ozarks, back on the "new york times" best seller list, which is great news for my dad. but the star of the night was daniellea. >> get the book at know your value.com. we'll be right back with senator michael bennet. keep it right here on "morning joe." l bennet keep it right here on "morning joe. my experience with usaa
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complete victory for the tea party. it extended the bush tax cuts permanently. the democratic party had been running against that for ten years. we've lost that economic argument because that deal extended almost all those bush tax cuts permanently and put in place the mindless cuts that we still are dealing with today that are called the sequester. that was a great deal for mitch mcconnell. it was a terrible deal for america. >> welcome back. joining us now, michael bennet of colorado. this is my news purse. it's done. you missed it. >> smild some coffee in your old purse? >> yeah. i toad them about it. i made the decision to stick with brokaw. >> was it all the wine you drank
last night? >> no. let's not talk about last night. let's talk to michael bennet. >> let's do that and let's talk about last night. how did it go? >> i thought it went well. i thought it was a spirited debate. a huge number of things that need to be litigated by democrats going into 2020. >> we saw your back and forth with joe biden. talk about that. >> we have in this country cut taxes by $5 trillion since 2001. almost all the benefit of that has gone to the wealthiest people in america and that's exacerbated the income inequality we have. we spent $5.6 trillion in the middle east. that's 11 or 12 or 13 trillion dollars that from the vantage point of people like the kids in my old school district, we might
as well have lit on fire while countries all over the world were investing in their people. that deal the vice president struck was part of that misset priorities. i was one of eight people to vote against it in the senate. you would recognize this kind of deal. it was 2:00 in the morning, literally. for me, it made no fiscal sense and it made no sense from the point of view of democratic party politics. if we had let the cliff expired, that would have been a $4 trillion tax increase that barack obama would have then figured out how to make a proposal that would have been a real middle class tax cut and a real help to people living in poverty. that was a lost effort. >> you want to win the white house, but if you don't control the senate, everything we heard about is fantasy.
so do you believe these people would be better off in going back to the states they're from and run for the senate in the states they're in? >> we have a chance to do it and we need to do it. we lost the since in 2016 and ever since then, it's been difficult to make progress on anything. >> but to willie's point, is there a situation where good people no longer want to be is in the neat because it has essentially broken itself? >> it is absolutely broken. and in many ways, it's a
nightmare. but i feel really privileged to work there. and i think other people that have the chance to work there should, too. we have a democracy at stake. the rules of law, the freedom of press, anyone who has a meaningful chance to play a role in that should be doing it. >> in the first debate, the candidates were asked the question about how would you deal with mitch mcconnell? what if you don't win the senate? the second question is really quick, we're about to pivot to the south carolina primary. how are you going to spooep speak to the african-american
community? how can you convince them? >> the first one is there's no way if mitch mcconnell is still there, what we need is an agenda that ewe nights the american people with washington. that is what we have to do. we need america to fix washington, d.c. and that's why it matters to me so much that the democrats not run on medicare for all, for example, which mitch mcconnell turns into medicare for none overnight. let's run on smart issues where mcconnell can't say no like on immigration in 2013. we are in a situation now in on ur country where the education system is reinforcing the policies we have in america. we have to reinvent preschool,
k12, higher education in this country. i think that's a message that people will want to listen to in south carolina. >> so we had a debate last night over busing something that wasn't popular in the early 1970s, not popular today. it was a desperate attempt in the early 1970s to integrate schools, to fulfill the promise of brown v. moore. a lot of people were offended by the notion that 6-year-old children were having to go an hour on the bus to the other side of town at night. here we are all these years later and you can go to schools, you can go to neighborhoods where we are in denver, in new york, and so many of those schools are still segregated. how do we move forward? what do we do to make sure that our schools aren't like de facto
segregated? >> in two nights on msnbc, we didn't get a single question on education. the last time we had a presidential election between donald trump and hillary clinton, they had every single debate, not one question on education. and it's one of the most important -- >> so this is your lucky day. i just asked. >> and so i think that our schools are segregated, as i said, they're reinforcing income inequality. the best predictor of the education you get is your parents' income in this country. we haven't been able to break this. and i think, you know, there was a time in american history when education was the wind at our back. you think about where was it during world war ii when we invented high school and said you need to go to high school and we have the gi bill and a lot of people that thought they would never go to college went to college and women and people of college went to college, as well. it transformed our economy.
we have to do the same thing in the 21st century. among other things, we need to recognize that the way we pay teachers belongs to a labor market that discriminated against women and said you've got two choices. one is being a teacher and one is being a nurse. >> is that going to help integrate schools? >> we have to change it. i think it will. i really do. we're losing 50% of the features in the first five years. in denver, we have massive achievement gaps, but the kids in denver for years have been growing faster academically than in the other school districts across the state of colorado. that's a great testament to a lot of other people's work. but i was privileged to be part of that at the beginning. >> so let me ask you this final question as we're talking about integrating schools. this is an issue and near and dear to mika and my heart and willie's heart because of what his mother has been doing up in harlem for how long now? >> social worker up in harlem for years, yeah. >> social worker up in harlem
for years. and we have been working with deborah kenny and others that are champions of school choice. so many people won't even talk about school choice. they say that's anti-public schools. not really. it's actually not about being against public schools. it's about being for giving the most disadvantaged children and their parents a choice. do you have any problem with that? >> no, i don't. look, based on what i've seen, the last thing we should be doing is taking high quality choices away from kids living in poverty. that makes no sense to me at all. and by the way, if you can buy a $1.5 million house in a suburb of boston and go to a great school as a result of that, that means you have choice that lots of people in this country do want have. when you have a system of education where a group of people have preschool because
their families have money and a group of people don't because their families don't or a group have high quality k 12 schools because their parents can afford a house in a great neighborhood and your parents can't, when there's one group of kids that have access to tutors, to people that went to college before, they hold their hand through the process and the other kids have nothing, then even equal is not equal under those circumstances and that is what we have in this country. our system of education, as i said, is reinforcing the economic im mobility that we have in this country. the flip side of that is, if we can fix it, it will unleash a chain reaction in our economy that will be like nothing we've seen since the post world twar two period. and you mentioned busing. that gives you a sense of how hard this work is because you're right, in the end it didn't really work. in a lot of places. but the courage that it took for people to say we're not going to accept the status quo after brown versus board, we're not
going to close our eyes to this, that's what we need to be doing again. >> all right. >> senator michael bennet, thank you very much. >> so great to have you. >> thank you. >> so much. >> and still haedz, something you probably haven't seen from joe biden before, sticking to time cues? we'll show you that, ahead. keep it right here on "morning joe." ahead keep it righ t here on "morning joe. cancer is the ugliest disease mankind has ever faced.
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professor at linden b. jaungson school of public affairs at the university of texas victoria di francesca. and john harwood. >> john, let's start with your take, something we started with. that is joe biden. how do you think he did last night? >> not well. i thought he looked every bit of 76 years. i thought that moment was a bad moment for him because he looked like he was bailing under fire. that was a moment for him to show passion in rebutting. kamala harris. and he said no mas. and i do not think that worked for him. >> so i'm sure you've heard what we've heard and that is democratic donors nervous even before last night's debate on whether joe biden would be able to stand toe to toe with donald trump. seems like last night did not help his case. >> he has to figure out how to
stand toe to toe in the meantime with elizabeth warren, with pete buttigieg, with kamala harris. there's a bunch of talent on this stage and the generational contrast did not work to joe biden's benefit last night. he looked like somebody who has been in this game a long time and that his game was not as fresh as it ought to be. there were several things in which you talked about one with michael bennet, the bit about the tax cut, said he got $600 billion out of mitch mcconnell, didn't really happen that way. when he got the question, i thought this was very odd. when he got the question about what he had said to donors that nothing fundamental would change, and the question was what did he mean by that? and he said what i meant by that was that donald trump thought wall street built america. that didn't make any sense. >> so, congressman, you left the republican party.
>> that's correct. >> because of donald trump. i'm curious what your response was to last night's debate and if you shared some of my concerns that the party started far too left saying illegal immigrants can come across the border, get health care for life, and, in fact, we're not going to even call them illegal. it's not going to be a crime any more to break our laws regarding coming into the country. >> sure. but look, every one of these candidates is trying to win the democratic primary to go toe to toe with donald trump. and frankly, a lot of them are being a little soft on specifics on policy. to your earlier question, i think joe biden and mayor pete both came in with vulnerabilities. joe biden's was a question of are his policies of the past, is he a generation looking backwards, not forward? mayor pete had the vulnerability of the issues he's been fating back home. their response was very different. joe biden got defensive. tried to dvensd his record.
mayor pete honestly said, look, i didn't get it done. voters feel that. the voter-candidate relationship is more like a dating relationship than it is a student-teacher feel? in joe biden they saw a defensive posture. in mayor pete they saw an honesty they could put their trust in and in kamala, someone who can fight for them and go toe-to-toe with donald trump. >> people are talking about kamala harris' performance particularly with joe biden. more importantly, who and what stood out to you last night? >> kamala harris did. more than anything, her mumity, very natural ability to put a human face on the story. immigration she was talking about, and what drives a person to send their child thousands of miles across on their own. it's desperation. these personal stories we can relate to, in a personal way.
biden and others tried to bring over personal stories but it felt forced. it didn't have that natural aspect that kamala had. she was able to back it up with facts and emotions. that was the perfect check of emotion and databases. >> don't sleep on -- i've lost my ability to predict modern politics, i feel, because everything is so topsy turvy. if joe biden starts to lose some of his support, michael bennet certainly put himself in position last night to harvest some of that support. >> sure. >> if it gets shaken loose. >> victoria -- >> well put. >> -- let me ask you about supreme court decisions. >> in terms that the effect this has for voters i see it as a net neutral.
gerrymandering stands. with the census, it looks like the citizenship question may not end up being put on the census it still could. anything can happen in politics. it's a win not just for minorities but everyone. if we have an undercount everyone gets fewer resources. over $800 billion are allocated to medicaid, to c.h.i.p., reimbursement to foster care. if there was an undercount, we would lose that just for the purposes of wanting to redo the maps. >> the likelihood of the supreme court changing their mind on the census question. well, the trump administration -- no. talk about facing strict scrutiny. the supreme court said they were disappointed in just how transparently false the logic was behind the government's argument. >> they said the logic was convoluted and incongruent. it's the perfect description of
donald trump's entire first administration. >> yeah. >> under the apa, administrative procedures act, if the commerce department wants to try to justify this in a better way we owe deference to it. donald trump, does he ignore the ruling and go ahead with the census and ask the question? we would be right back in the question that nancy pelosi and house democrats find themselves on much of what donald trump does, which is what is the constitutional oversight triggers we can pull in that moment? i wouldn't put it past the president for going ahead with the census question. >> all right. everyone, stay. straight ahead, congressman eric swalwell called for a new generation of leaders. bernie sanders thinks that's ageism. we'll take a look at what this morning's newspapers are saying about round two of the democratic debates from "the new york times," biden, sanders duel on economy stands out at a rauckus debate. washington post front page round two, a scrappier scrum.
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carbon use. >> i mean, i think that's ageism, to tell you the truth. all of us are trying to end discrimination in this country against women, against minorities, lgbt community and ageism as well. >> that was bernie sanders last night after the debate. final thoughts. >> i do think it's ageism. the question is, who can beat the moment? last night, kamala harris met the moment and said to democratic voters, number one issue defeating donald trump, i can do it. >> victoria, final thoughts? joe biden saw his age. you can be 76 and have a freshness, newness to you but he
was past his prime. >> it's not ageism but human reactions. people decide on candidates they like, feel confident in. if someone is very whole they'll have less confidence in them. that's reality. bernie sanders has to deal with that. joe biden has to deal with that. there's a lot of young talent on that stage. >> willie? >> joe biden is the front-runner but we have a different race than we had 12 hours ago when we were sitting here getting ready for this debate tomorrow night. kamala harris has shown that she can stand and fight. joe biden was that on paper. >> women are standing out as strong and breaking through stereotypes but these past few days i have been vintage "morning joe." over the past few days. >> and a great crowd.
>> and we had a great time, able to have an extensive civil conversation. the debates are one thing, joe. to have a real conversation and hear from them is another. >> it's fantastic. we've had a wonderful time. we want to thank everybody here and certainly we want to thank everybody -- >> sugar cane. >> yes, sugar cane and thanks to everybody who has come out to watch us. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. thanks, joe. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. this morning, the 2020 democratic field may be taking new shape after ten more candidates took the debate stage yesterday. night two in miami, it brought no shortage of fire works, attacks on the president and very heated moments between the candidates, all who are vying for their party's nomination. >> donald trump think wall street built america. ordinary