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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  July 1, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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trump hitting north korea, short on planning, but big on theatrics. whether you think it's good or bad, here is a new moment in history, donald trump becoming the first american president to set foot inside north korea. there was confusion as the photographers you see scrambled to get the right picture and get out of the way. >> come on, come on. >> move. move. where are they going? they're going straight. >> that kind of chaos is unusual in any diplomatic appearance because they're usually planned in a different way with a lot more time. now, that alone is not so significant, but trump did proudly plan this on the fly, and also -- and this is where it gets more important -- was so intent on making this happen, on getting those pictures that he basically gave up this in-person meeting without any clear
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concessions, at least any that have been reported at this moment. it was serious when white house secretary stephanie grisham was bruised after a scuffle with north korean security guards who were reportedly trying to block u.s. reporters from getting close to that meeting between trump and north korea's leader. another bit of drama there. now, what's the policy here beyond these visuals? "the new york times" is already reporting the trump administration is considering a concession with north korea that would allow a freeze in all nuclear production, but would keep the status quo. that means the stockpile of missiles stay. the status quo tacitly accepting the north as a nuclear power. that obviously is not the goal of u.s. policy, which is why trump's national security advisor john bolton is denying those reports. i should mention as an aside he was not brought along to north korea by the president. so what can we take from all of this from these highlights of an unusual trip? well, the president is already taking heat for putting pageantry above policy. the presidents in both parties
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avoided exactly this kind of visit precisely because it does risk giving north korea something for nothing. time on their turf literally, the prestige of an american visit, and all the rest. now, that doesn't mean that everything that is on the table or that's even being denied by the administration is completely unprecedented. team trump again says there isn't going to be a surrender for a potential freeze that makes north korea nuclear armed recognized power, but other administrations have also explored at least, in theory, similar proposals in unsuccessful efforts to find a solution for the north korean problem. >> this is a good deal for the united states. north korea will freeze and then dismantle its nuclear program. >> north korea policy is not a place where precedent is even encouraging. past presidents didn't actually disarm north korea, hence the debates today. but they certainly in both parties withheld the prestige of a presidential visit until this
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rogue nation was deemed to have improved its conduct. i'm joined now by rick stengel who is secretary of state in the obama administration, former editor of time as well. jason jonathan from the root. and evelyn, a top pentagon expert on russia under obama. good to have all of you. evelyn, walk us through this even for people who don't give donald trump the benefit of the doubt on foreign policy. the administration is not alone in brainstorming and trying to be creative about some way to get out from under this. and yet at the same time, there were some things we saw here that don't seem to be traditional u.s. foreign policy, national security measures. >> right, ari. i actually worked pretty heavily on north korea policy when i worked for the center armed services committee and in 2008 i went to the nuclear facility at a time when the bush administration thought they had a deal with north korea that involved getting to an eliminating their nuclear program. it was a step-by-step approach where there was a lot of
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reciprocity. that's the same kind of proposal that they had under the clinton administration, although that was more of a freeze. and it worked for a while until the north koreans cheated and started uranium program. so it's very hard to pin down the north koreans. the problem with our current situation is that our president has eased up on the pressure, the sanctions. he's let the russians and the chinese and others provide -- well, trade, essentially, under the table with the north koreans. and he's also obviously extended this diplomatic hand. but he doesn't have a really good strategy as far as we can tell to actually get to an outcome. >> yeah, and point blank, could you imagine president obama or bush going and doing a visit like we just saw like we just showed on our screens here, without getting something in return? >> no, not at all. and that's really the problem, ari, because don't forget, we have actually frozen our major nuclear -- sorry, our major
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military exercises that we conduct with the south koreans annually. we've frozen them. they're still frozen in deference to north korean concerns. in exchange they have stopped conducting any nuclear weapons tests. that's good. and they haven't conducted any intermediate -- sorry, inter-continental ballistic tests, that's also good. but again, no progress since president trump met over a year ago with kim jong-un for the first time. >> rick? >> yes, evelyn gave an excellent tour of the waterfront. i mean, just to not put too fine a point on it, once upon a time going to the dmz with kim jong-un would have been a reward for talking months and years. you talk about the freezes that previous presidents did. remember, that clinton freeze was 20 years ago, before the north koreans had what they have now, 20 or 30 or 40 nuclear missiles. i mean, and again, you know, to just try to punctuate it, the north koreans feel that they
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have tricked donald trump. that in exchange for free, potentially freezing this or doing almost nothing, remember, they haven't destroyed a single missile, single nuclear reactor in exchange for this photo op. they have gotten a kind of legitimacy in the world's eyes. >> walk us through this. we'll keep this up on the screen. the walking, the frenzied videographers and photographers. you're speaking to something that they both share, that both of these leaders care a lot about the pictures that are beamed around the world. >> yes, but kim jong-un understands and has figured out donald trump cares about that more than any single other thing. and, by the way, the frenzy of the north korean reporters is such that if they don't get the right picture, they're going to prison, unlike american reporters. >> well put, and serious. jason, the domestic politics on this are obviously fascinating. it is hard to rush from criticizing barack obama for a careful treaty with iran all the
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way to cosigning all of this. but it can be done. take a listen to tucker carlson. >> you've got to be honest about what it means to lead a country. it means killing people. it's not necessarily a choice between, you know, the evil people and the great people. it's a choice most of the time between the bad people and the worst people. that's kind of the nature of life. >> jason? >> well, congratulations for tucker for making it so clear. apparently my doctor in political science is a waste of time because being a great leader is about killing people. who knew? part of the issue here is a sort of reductionist and disingenuous way in which president trump's behavior is interpreted. i don't think he has a plan. it's clear part of why he has these meetings with putin and kim jong-un is not because he has some policy goals because they're the only friends he seems to have left on the planet. and the concern that everybody should have is, look, initially the belligerence of this presidency actually led to conversations between north and
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south korea because they were concerned. that's a good thing. now egs just providing the sort of branding that north korea needs and he's not doing anything to either helps north and south korea come together or makes it a less volatile part of the world and that's the real problem with what's going on. >> do you think domestically, because the president has clearly made this something that he wants to tout, just like he's made the china trade talk and the tariff bluffs part of his reelection campaign, which we all know is happening. do you think domestically this can be swallowed by the conservatives in america who have traditionally had a lot more concern about what it means to cozy up to these kind of leaders abroad? >> i mean, ari, whether it's putin, whether it's north korea, you know, evangelical christians, white conservatives in america have pretty much decided for the last three years that anything donald trump does is okay. anything he plays on the piano is suddenly beethoven. anything he does policy-wise is certainly -- he's the next
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church hill or something. it doesn't really matter what's going to happen domestically. what does happen, though, we saw this from joe biden, democrats will attack donald trump, not just on having these meetings for symbolic purposes, but they'll attack him on getting nothing done. that the deal maker continues to have these meetings and leaves the poker table naked. he has nothing to show for all these meetings with north korea, and that's what becomes a domestic issue democrats can really work from. >> but if he leaves the poker table naked but the entire court acts like the emperor is wearing clothes, then is he really naked? >> we don't know. sarah huckabee sanders says she sees nothing but clothing. those were her last words. >> evelyn, widening out, every time it deals with putin it gets extra attention. he made a choice to form a sort of rhetorical common cause with putin about, quote-unquote, getting rid of journalists which comes after what rick was reminding us about, the lack of a free press in north korea, the abuse that these governments
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deploy. and that was a comment that i think, it's fair to say, if any president, obama or bush said that, there would have been a huge and long story in this world we cover here on the beat. it didn't necessarily get the outrage one would expect or want in the united states. put it in that lighter context with putin, with saudis you can r, everything else on this trip. >> ari, it's outrages. one of the most dangerous places to be a journalist is in russia, in the russian federation. there is some free press there, but if you cross a line too many times, especially investigative journalists, you are likely to end up dead. and that's -- that goes for whether you're in russia, whether you go elsewhere that you've been covering russia unfavorably or the government unfavorably. there are ranges that the president says this. of course, we know very well what the saudis do. they assassinate people and the brutal assassination of jamal khashoggi, who was a resident of virginia in the united states who should have been deemed a
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lot more protection, not to mention, of course, outrage coming from the white house than he got. so the president just seems to gloss overall this. and unfortunately the american people have gotten used to it. but it's appalling. we are not -- we should not be sitting quietly and accepting the president nodding while he sits with these people who have bloods on their hands. >> rick, as a chief diplomat for barack obama, particularly looking at public persuasion and how we're treated in the world, i can only imagine the preparations, the briefings, the research that you all did which goes up the line all the way to the chief executive. contrast that, if you will -- and i admit this is somewhat low-hanging fruit, but contrast that to the way the president doesn't seem to grasp all of the vocabulary that is put towards him when he's in these international appearances. take a look. >> yeah. >> in the financial times, right before arriving here was western
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style liberalism is obsolete. >> if you look at what's happening in los angeles where it's so sad to look and what's happening in san francisco and a couple of other cities which are run by an extraordinary group of liberal people. i don't know what they're thinking. >> the question, i guess -- >> i don't mind that he doesn't know who john lock is or john stewart mill who are great beacons of liberalism. what's sad is he doesn't understand is we are the product of western liberalism, that the post cold war order of freedom and democracy and globalization was something that we created and we control -- >> you're coming in really high brow. i was coming in a little more low brow, i admit, which is the question was about the international concept of western liberalism. and he appeared to only understand it as west coast political progressivism.
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>> and i'll go low now, which is that i actually -- >> michelle is not here. >> i think his brain basically froze in the '70s and '80s and he grew up in the '60s where there was this idea of liberals versus conservatives and the liberals were the long hairs who were protesting against vietnam and he was against it. he's a kid from military school. he's a kid who had nothing but disdain for that, which his father did, too. neither he nor his father ever served. he looks at everything through that skrim, yes, that high falutin of liberalism he doesn't understand. he understand it in a very basic way. because he has a authoritarian personal, that's the skrim through which he sees this. >> evelyn, what do you think? him not getting it is more concerning if you think that he's also faking it on bigger, bigger issues. >> well, i think the problem,
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ari -- so, i'm going to try, i'm a political scientist, i'm going to find the medium spot here. >> sure. >> liberal democracy is more than just voting, right? because russia's technical democracy, they vote. they don't have the other things that make a democracy really real. that's what we say when we mean liberal democracy. it's a real democracy, okay. donald trump is talking about liberalism in the american context, which is big government and maybe a separate social agenda, right? he's confusing these two things. but they actually matter because when you're on the international stage, you're fighting against vladimir putin and all the dictators around the world to protect liberal democracy, to protect the kind of democracies we and the europeans and the japanese and the israelis and all of our allies and partners have. that matters. and so he shouldn't be bringing up the domestic american context, but maybe he doesn't know better. he should. >> he also, he not only doesn't know what liberal democracy is. he doesn't no what illiberal
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democracy is. that's evelyn's point. that's what we are protesting against and leading against around the world. illiberal democracies like russia have elections but nothing democratic about them besides that. >> rick stengel, jason johnson, evelyn farkas with all this international stuff brewing, thank you so much for your expertise. it helps us think it through. coming up, we turn back to the mainland. new reporting on how everyone is prepping for mueller's block buster testimony from congress. we're getting the first fund-raising polling in from the miami debate and we're seeing some shifts. and then should it be a gop primary debate, too? we're going to talk to the only prominent republican challenging donald trump now in that primary, governor bill weld. he's here with me live. all that plus an exclusive interview with a candidate you haven't heard of making major waves and getting a boost from bernie, warren and even a.o.c. >> if you don't know yet, that's tiffany. [ cheers and applause ] >> controversy, she joins me on the beat. i'm ari melber, and we'll be
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politico reporting donald trump's defenders want to undercut him at the hearings and say this has all become a democratic process of using him as kind of a pawn and recycling certain attacks and accusing his team of bias and using inappropriate surveillance. democrats, meanwhile, want to use him to explicate the mueller report on tv for the first time. i'm joined now by former federal prosecutor john flannery, former special counsel for three investigations. how are you? >> good to be here. >> more people watched democratic debates than any in miamiery history, which means a lot of americans and voters tuned into that and that was the focus. for understandable reasons. of course, it happened that the house democrats unveiled their mueller plan right around that same time. so here we are starting a new week and that other news still sinking in. what matters to you about mueller going under oath? >> well, what matters is that it is an opportunity, of course, it's a dangerous one for both sides. that is to say, if he's not
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going to sit down and talk to anyone beforehand, they have to take some risks how they question him at the hearing. the democrats didn't show themselves very well organized at the last go around, so this is kind of like casey at the bat again. they have to really score on this one. and the republicans make a big mistake because if they're going to try to attack him like a common criminal, they're going to run up against a lot of difficulty with the presumptions of americans about him. >> we showed that for a reason there, which is they're previewing a line of attack as if there is something wrong with him. >> yes. >> which would seem to undercut the president's entire claim that mueller cleared him. that's a good thing. if true, wouldn't you want to support the credibility of the guy who supposedly cleared you? >> yes, well, they have an identity crisis. and the problem with their identity crisis is a number of obstruction counts that sit in the second part of the report. and even the first part of the
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report, i think the common sense now is that we have collusion. and if there is more investigation, we might an indictment. the problem they have is they are going to make a charge. and the question is are the democrats going to break their form and actually answer the charge or give mueller a chance to answer the charge when it's their turn. like what are the nature of the people that you hired? were they democrats out there to get someone? why did you choose them? those kinds of questions would rebut the coup question that the republicans want to make. by the same token -- >> let me ask you this for my viewers. you've been counsel to these congressional investigations before. what do you do with a witness, particularly one with the credibility of bob mueller who asked -- here's a question everyone has on their mind, right? all this bad stuff about obstruction in volume 2. if trump were any other person, would you have indicted him? that's a question everyone wants to know. and if bob just says, as we wrote in the report, that was not an available option, which doesn't really answer the
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question. do they have to leave -- how much do they push him, in your view, having worked in these hearings? >> well, i would treat him as a hostile witness. in this sense. first of all, i would swear him in. he's coming in response to a subpoena. but i would ask him leading questions, and i would use the report, and i would use them not only to ask the question to have him affirm what he wrote, but to do it in such a way that there is a reader's digest for america in the one or two hours, depending how they carve up the time to make their point. and they should do what you do, ari. they should have documents they flash up on the screen. they should have film clips. they should have statements that they have recorded of the president -- >> you're talking about what the entire beat team does. we're proud of our production elements. thank you very much. >> you're doing better than the hill right now, i tell you that. >> to flesh that out, what would you rip out of the report which
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he might be compelled to answer? because if he's going to say, my report is my testimony -- and, look, i don't speak for bob mueller, but i've been covering him for awhile. he's going to act like, hey, i told y'all this already. i wrote it down. and then i gave my presser, and america remembers. by the way, i think bob mueller has a lot more credibility than a lot of politician tz. i already told you i'm not going beyond that. they are on their heels. what do they do then? >> you see, that's why they have to ask the leading questions. the leading question goes like this. in your report, you found this instance of collusion. and if he fights with you, you use his language from the report against him. and then you say, in your book -- on page 76 you say that if you investigated more, you might have found a crime. why wasn't a thorough fbi investigation? what stopped you from doing it? then it doesn't matter what he says because his report said one thing. if he has nothing to say about what he meant by thorough and there could have been a crime, and why did you put it in the
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second part of the book referring to the first part of the book, those kinds of questions are very helpful. i think if you're saying -- i also think he should be questioned chronologically so that you put the collusion next to the obstruction and you see the connection between the two. my experience -- >> i don't want be to get you -- before i let you go -- because i'm running short of time -- ken starr testified and gave his view why he said president clinton, quote-unquote lied, why he chose to lie and why that matters. donald trump lies a lot and he directed lies in this case, although his written testimony has not been accused of being false. but in the directed lies and the other people who criminally lied for him, do you think there is a questionnaire to say to mueller, okay, all this said and done, why did he lie? because there was that tantalizing passage in volume 2 where he said he may not have lied to protect against a collusion criminal conspiracy. he may have lied to cover up other crimes.
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and i thought, well, bob, tell us more. >> right. i think that what you could say is you can't criticize a springing mull early here as starr appeared and basically did no more than go over his report. but mr. mueller, you have identified all these different items and you've left open the question what to do with them. do you believe that it's congress that has to decide to impeach based on the evidence you found that you thought was worthy enough for us to consider? something like that. >> that's our report, now we're doing lawyer fan fiction. you go through the report, is this an impeachment referral or not? is >> fair question. >> if it's not i'd like to follow-up with evidence. if it's not, you're under oath, bob mueller says, no, i'm not taking a position. i did not write this to suggest the impeachment of president trump. however much that may disappoint people, that adds to the public record of understanding of what mueller thinks congress ultimately co-equal branch has to make up its own mind.
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>> right. i think the biggest question for democrats and republicans is whether they take seriously or not his may 29 statement saying iemtd not going beyond this, i'm not going to do hypotheticals about that. i think you have to expect he's going to be pretty solid on that. but i think if you can't get him to answer questions beforehand, then you have to treat him very carefully and study how you can ask him the questions the way i suggested. >> you've done so much of this work and it's really fascinating to really game it out in detail with you, john. >> thank you. >> as always, thanks for coming on, sir. >> glad to be with you. keep up the good work. >> we appreciate the shout out to the team. up ahead, we're learning how these debates have shaken up the 2020 race. i have a very special panel of guests and we're back in 30 seconds. in 30 seconds. when crabe stronger...strong, with new nicorette coated ice mint. layered with flavor... it's the first and only coated nicotine lozenge. for an amazing taste... ...that outlasts your craving. new nicorette ice mint. introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts.
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and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪ welcome back to "the beat." as mentioned, more of you, more americans watch the democratic primary presidential debates last week than any other democratic primaries in history, which is pretty fascinating. it tells you something about the enthusiasm, at least to learn about these candidates, or perhaps about the resistance to donald trump. now, there's a lot of measures from fund-raising to polling to just what we're seeing out in the field. i want to bring in two special guests to really get into what we're seeing as this new week starts with the race typically really underway now, having marked the first debates. jared hill, host of syndicated radio show, drop the subject. apollo ramos, and former
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director of hispanic press for hillary clinton. nice to see both of you. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for having us. >> you know a little about how campaigns work. >> yes. >> when you see the reaction to the debate, whether it's the public and online reaction to some of the big moments, the clash of harris and biden, clashes over immigration, which you know a lot about, or other measures we're seeing that take in the whole quarter like pete buttiegieg raising over 20 mill, where do you see this race going now? >> obviously there's a very long way to go, but i do think that we answered a very important question the first night, the first debate, which is is the question who is going to beat donald trump, or is the question are we looking for something bigger. and i think that moment in the debate, that exchange between kamala and biden, that was very crucial in the race because all of a sudden i think there's younger people, the audience is starting to understand that we want both things. we want someone that can beat donald trump and someone that can bring transformational change. >> you want something politically that tastes great but is also less filling. >> yes. >> why can't you have both?
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>> absolutely. i think it's a situation of beating donald trump is important, but we also have issues we have to fix in this country. donald trump has done a lot of impacts i feel are negative. you can get into office, but what are you going to do with that time? joe biden, they asked him what would be the first thing you would do, he said beat donald trump. no, no, no, that's not what we're talking about here. what would you do different? >> would you see that as telling? some people say it's like a gaff, who cares? did you see it as revealing? >> i think it was a little bit of column a and column b. what was that? there were so many moments of him asking, what was that, him and bernie not being able to hear, but it was also like, maybe that wasn't a mistake. maybe he does not know what that first thing is. >> when you talk about who they are, i want to play a little of joe bud enat the push rainbow coalition speech. voters ultimately decide how much does language, how much does the age of certain phrases matter, or do they think it connects to something more substantive. take a look.
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>> we have to recognize that kid wearing a hoodie may very well be the next laureate and not a gang banger. ladies and gentlemen, there are too many black men and i might add women in prison. >> all right. i mean, what? like -- a friend of mine sent me a tweet with that quote. it was like, wow, really? i can't think of a hoodie and not think about trevon martin. the idea that trevon martin was wearing a hoodie and what that must say about him. that was really irksome. i think of all the people of color who work on that campaign who continually cringe every time he does something like that. >> any candidate today needs to know the language of how do you navigate racial justice in this country, or you cannot win today without the youth vote. you cannot win without black and brown people. it's that simple. he's not there yet. doesn't mean he will not get there, but he's not there yet. >> and then for that to happen, only days after the stumble with kamala harris. come on. >> you mention kamala harris.
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the early polling is really not indicative of anything, so we actually don't use much of it. it is interesting to see where the grassroots energy is, fund-raising being a big thing. we mentioned mayor pete. he's clearly on fire. the harris campaign says that it has got $2 million in the first 24 hours after the debate. >> i think that polling is really interesting because if you look at the favorables, everybody's favorables were flat or they went up by about 1 or 2 points. but unfavorables also, all of the men their unfavorables went up, but the women, their favorables and unfavorables went down. it's an interesting thing to see how this debate really tracked with everyone, and kamala harris had the biggest jump in both of those spaces. >> to me it's not so much about biden or kamala. it's really about the issue that created the moment. the issue was talking about race in the country. that was the moment when millions of new people tuned in, they saw themselves in her. because again, she is bringing solution solution s to answers
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we haven't had in a long time. >> i want to ask you about the shifrt in immigration we're covering. you were a hillary person, means you're not only a hillary person, but you would acknowledge most of the candidates now are to the left on immigration, civil rights to where hillary ran last cycle. what does that tell you? >> i wouldn't say it's to the left. it's where we see is just and moral today. that is in great part to julian castro who has created the immigration platform. anything less than that is unacceptable. the most important part being decriminalizing immigrants, right. everyone has to be on board with that and is something we saw wednesday and thursday night where he created the minimum standard of what it means to be a democratic president in this country, see immigrants as human beings. >> but is part of that a rebuff of the clinton and obama history? >> of course, yes, i think a lot of people acknowledge and we know and we have to talk openly about the deportations that took place under president obama. but i think it's more that -- i think what we're saying is it is no longer enough to say we want
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immigration retomorrow. what do form. >> it's generic. >> what is the plan? how are you treating immigrants and latinos every single day on the streets, as they are kroszing the border. give us die tails. we're starting to see that. >> i don't think it's necessarily a rebuff of the obama administration. there are so many more people that are paying attention right now than there were in the obama era. so many more people -- my parents can tell you who the secretary of state is and all of these things. they can name a bunch of people they couldn't name before and they can talk about policy in a way they couldn't talk about it before. so i think more people are looking at these things and have more opinions about them. >> they have to. >> exactly. >> i was going to ask you before we go, do you think some of these candidates are better at the internet than past cycles? people and young people are hearing about it more. clearly young people are hearing about it and tuning in. >> again, you have to 40% of eligible voters are millennials
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and gener z-ers. >> you know what they say about the 2020 primary. it's about ideas and it's also about commas. >> where is this going, ari, where is this going? >> you have to raise that money. unfortunately people wish it wasn't and shouldn't be as expensive. jared hill, good to have you here. >> thanks. >> paula ramos, fiers time on the beat. we love new voices. appreciate you coming on. a.o.c. has now shocked the establishment of. she's here exclusively. also trump's republican challenger wants his own debate. here on the beat, right here, right now. thanks for being here. thanks for being here. wanted to get away who used expedia to book the vacation rental that led to the ride ♪ which took them to the place where they discovered that sometimes a little down time
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did you know there is a card-carrying well established and elected republican running against donald trump right now? massachusetts governor bill weld is out. he's been on the show once and
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he's saying i assure you next year in a two-man race i'm going to be well over 15%. by the book, i should be in debates with trump. >> i should be in debates with mr. trump, and i figure either i get a debate like an empty chair for me to talk to with 80 million people watching. either one of those is good. this year i'm sure he's going to, you know, hang tight and not give any ground whatsoever, so i think might gamut has to be to challenge alec baldwin to a debate. he can come out in a red trump wig. >> before you think it's all self-interest, note that a's whopping 43% of republicans say they are open to a trump primary challenge, although most do still support donald trump. former governor bill weld joins me now. thanks for coming on the beat. >> ari, it's always a pleasure. >> why are you name checking with baldwin? >> i think a debate without baldwin would be sensational. it would probably be better ratings than trump and weld.
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>> you'd really do it? >> i absolutely would do it, sure. two large orange men going at each other. >> but the idea there is mixing the fun with the serious, that you think -- and again, we're in a world where donald trump and others are experimenting with media. you think you, the real governor, against alec baldwin, the fictional donald trump, would still show us something? what would it reveal? >> well, alec baldwin is a pretty smart guy. i think he could come up with some good lines, but so could i. so could i. i've had a lot of practice in debates. >> if you mean what you said, we invite alec baldwin on "the beat" and we would have you both on. we would televise part of this imagined debate if he'll take you up on it. >> it's a deal. thank you. >> let's take a look at your slogan the president wants to, he said, keep america great. let's look at what you're running on. >> today we need bill weld more than ever. because america deserves better.
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>> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured, okay? >> i don't know what i said, i don't remember. >> and mexico will pay for the wall. >> you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> a better america starts here. >> what does it say that your big introductory ad there has a lot of trump and not as much of you? >> well, there's a lot of me in that ad, too, but i do think it's fair to say that this president knows almost nothing. you know, he said we should get out of the trans-pacific partnership with 12 pacific facing nations because it would be dominated by china. he didn't know china wasn't a party to that. the whole idea was we would have a china-free shot at the pacific. i doubt very much when he ripped up the iran deal that he knew our european allies were also parties to that. he said that nafta was the worst treaty ever, and he said i'm going to rip it up, and he negotiated its identical twin
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because it actually benefits all three countries. it's no accident that donald trump, the stable genius charged his lawyer, michael cohen, with threatening the university of pennsylvania with a lawsuit if either mr. trump's grades or his aptitude scores ever leaked out and became public. >> your issue with trump is more about his ignorance or his values? >> no, i think he's just going about everything the wrong way. i think he's helplessly over his head. the reason why is not hard to seek. he had no preparation for this job, and it shows. it shows painfully, both domestically and on the international side. when i see him sitting down with his much, much-favored autocrats to have serious discussions about the future of nuclear weapons weapons, it's a little nervous making. >> will the administration ever do a north korean visit the way he did today, this weekend? >> i think that's a lot of show, and a lot of this stuff is show.
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i trumped save us all from a three-part invasion of iran that was going to happen yesterday and kill 150 people. that was, you know, that was between him and john bolton that he saved us from. now we've been saved from the 25% tariff that mr. trump was going to put on mexico, which would have increased the price of every car coming into the united states by $9,000. it was never going to happen, but it was just setting up an untruthful statement that, oh, mexico already made concessions to us, so we'll withdraw that 25%. it's all -- it's stage management. it's not real government. >> as a long-standing republican official, republican governor, it's very interesting hearing you stand out from some of the colleagues that you've held in high esteem for a long time and standing up to this president and seeing you on the race and we'll keep an eye on it. >> great, ari. >> thanks for coming by. governor bill weld. coming up an exclusive with an a.o.c. stand out when we come
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i felt completely helpless.. trashed online. my entire career and business were in jeopardy. i called reputation defender. they were able to restore my good name. if you are under attack, i recommend calling reputation defender. vo: there's more negativity online than ever. reputation defender ensures that when people check you out, they'll find more of the truth, not trash. if you have search results that are wrong or unfair, visit or call 1-877-866-8555. some are calling it the a.o.c. blueprint a year after alexandria ocasio-cortez defeated an incumbent. the city is witness another election stunner. tiffany is running for district attorney in queens with a very progressive reform agenda. ending cash bail, halting the prosecution of low-level crimes and shutting down something we
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covered on the show, the rikers island jail. this is a very big deal. queens has often had a conservative approach to criminal justice. a councilmember recently slammed it as, quote, the misdemeanor incarceration capital. now, here's why many politicos are buzzing. she has an 1100 vote lead in this primary. with votes still being counted she is on pace to be potentially the new d.a. before the primary she got a very high-profile endorsement in this contested primary from a.o.c. >> if you don't know, you are about to know tiffany kaban to be our next -- [ cheers and applause ] >> we're going to make sure we stop locking people up for marijuana and tiffany is going to be the one to do it. [ cheers and applause ] >> joining us for a beat exclusive is tiffany kaban. thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me, ari. >> were you surprised? >> you know, we knew that we had a really, really good shot.
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i mean, six months ago, if you had asked me that, i would have said absolutely no way. i'm a career public defender and so when i jumped into this race it was literally me and to change the system. we're going to troy to change the conversation. move people to center the experiences of my clients and the communities that have been disparitily impacted by our criminal justice system. it changed very, very quickly. we built probably one of the biggest, most diverse, most beautiful, strongest coalitions that any borough-wide race has ever seen. we thought we had a really, really good shot going into election day especially because of our massive field operation. >> we've seen some massive upsets in d.a. races across the country. there's been, obviously before the trump era, a real debate about criminal justice and policing in this country. when people hear that you want to be a d.a. who prosecutes crime less, some people hear that and think, well, wait, isn't that your new job?
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>> so, i mean, the answer i give is one that comes from my experience, not just -- i grew up in queens, so, you know, a working-class lower income neighborhood. my parents grew up in public housing in the woodside housing projects. so certainly growing up in overpoliced, overcriminalized, resource-starved communities and serving communities like that as a public definiter, you see every single day that there are crimes that aren't being prosecuted. i represented clients criminalized and prosecuted for their homelessness rather than bad landlords who unlawfully evicted, people criminalized for their substance abuse, so it's about saying we have these limited resources and what we're doing with those resources right now are criminalizing public health issues. we are punting, you know, mental health issues, substance abuse disorder, poverty to our justice system and we need to start looking at our system in a way that says, hey, how do we get to the root causes of crime? because in so many ways
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stability equals public safety. so when we start reallocating resources and saying we're going to go after bad actors that are destabilizing entire communities which drives other crimes, that that is -- you get the best public safety and public health outcomes in that way. and then also saying, well, now we can also divert more resources to tackling, you know, really serious violent crime, for example, where we don't have the best clearance records on it and it's because we're not putting enough resources towards those things. >> cash bail, you want to change it. >> absolutely. i mean, this past session in albany was i think transformative in terms of criminal justice reforms. there were so many things that were incredible. we talk about the discovery reforms, you know, coming from a practice where we talk about trial by ambush. we'd go to trial and you'd get the evidence in a case the day before, the day of, and it wasn't uncommon, but one place where we didn't go far enough was ending cash bail entirely. so right now what's going to go into effect in january is essentially partially ending
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cash bail. ending cash bail for low-level and nonviolent offenses. you can't have two systems of justice. if you are charged with a nonviolent or lie-level offense and whether you are poor or wealthy, you get to released and fight your case from the outside. if you're poor, you end up on rikers island, but if you're wealthy, you get to buy your constitutional right to the presumption of innocence, and that's not right. >> the democratic party is going through these huge shifts. one of the things that's changing is the idea that just because you're a democrat you should stay on the ticket and be the incumbent. aoc shifted that. >> i think it was incredibly helpful. we had a lot of help from, again, a really large coalition, so certainly aoc, the working families party, dsa, groups that have been on the ground doing the work, like make the road and vocal. for me, when you're running a grassroots campaign, right,
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you're not backed by the county machine. you don't have the million dollars in the bank. you don't have the consultants. this is all people powered. >> how many other members of congress endorsed you? >> just the one. >> just the one. because others say, oh, i'm going to stay out of this. she seemed to jump in and say, no, let's try something else. >> i think it was her recognizing, again, this wasn't about her saying, well, here is this progressive i need to back, but it was about recognizing what was happening on the ground. it was a real groundswell of our communities so activated and powerful around us. i think it was really her acknowledging the organizing around the campaign and how much excitement there was around it and it helped because we didn't have the money. so it allowed us to get our messaging out to folks that maybe we wouldn't have reached, because when we got our member o -- message out to them, we won the conversation. >> it's using the reach that she has online and off. ms. caban, thanks for being here. >> thank you very much. up ahead, worldwide pride
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millions of people, including democratic presidential candidates, have been marching in pride events this week. take a look, kamala harris in san francisco dawning a rainbow and enned jacket which went somewhat viral. bill de blasio front and center at the pride celebration here in new york. bernie sanders also hitting a pride parade. this one was in new hampshire. you see him there waving. in pop culture news, a musician
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named little nas x behind the song "old time road," he announced he's coming out. using twitter and later pointed to the rainbow colored building on his album cover. that does it for "the beat." we wanted to give you those updates. "hardball" is up next. california, here she comes. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. an afternoon poll today shows a big shake-up in the democratic presidential race after last week's debate. biden is down big. kamala is up big. also, donald trump walks into north korea, but then gets thrown by a high school question about western-style liberalism. plus, this look into political warfare up in pennsylvania. >> you need


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