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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  July 4, 2019 2:00am-3:00am PDT

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not love our birthday. it's one of the single best things we ever did. celebrating independence and the declaration of independence. i hope you have an excellent fourth. >> show off. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. tomorrow, we celebrate the high human standards of our founders. we hold these truths to be self-estimate that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator. the fourth of july is there for because of these words essentially the celebration of american ideals of equality, national unity, freedom from a
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bullying government. yet on this fourth of july in this city that this president has decreed that a procession of combat tanks will line the capital. the president speaks to a nation flanked by the highest ranking military chiefs. for the first time, we are being instructed to honor, not the values of the declaration of independence but the military and the grandeur of donald trump himself. many who come to washington will come to champion this president. others here in washington on the mall will not be so moved. a country already divided by such malice of this president face driving the wedge even deeper between us. not to expect it would be naive.
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the details and cost of trump's inspect call have already ignited wide disgust. e earlier this week, he previewed the speech he will give standing in the shadow of president lincoln. >> we will have a celebration like no other. it will be a salute to america. >> will you give a speech that will reach all americans? >> i think so. i think most americans want no crime, a strong military, education, good health care. if you look at preexisting conditions, republicans will save preexisting conditions. the democrats won't be able to do it. the democrats plan will destroy the country and be horrible health care. >> on twitter, he boasted the
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event is looking to be really big. it will be a show of a lifetime. the "washington post" posted the national park service diverted $2.5 million intended to cover parks across the country to cover this. the decide verted park fees represent just a fraction of the extra costs the government faces as a result of this event. the president adding, quote, the cost of our great salute to america tomorrow will be very little compared to what it is worth. we own the planes, the pilots, the airport is right next door. all we need is the fuel. nice. nice. i'm joined by democratic congressman from new york. i leave the door open to you. your thoughts about the
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politics, the narcisism. >> thank you for having me on. praum will be turning this into a national embarrassment to feed his ego. this is an example of his narciscism. it really is an embarrassment and waste of taxpayer dollars as a prop. it is really a sad moment. >> is there anyway of stopping him using the pictures, especially the older people, the seniors that go to these national parks and pay the $10. suppose he turns this into a big
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extravaganza for his ad campaign. is that legal? >> that should be looked at. as you know, the president is granted wide disgregs for governmental activity. we've seen many in his administration abuse those in ways they don't seem to care. this is all going to come down to condemnation from the american people and recognize that the fourth of july is a national we national celebration of americans. everything trump touches becomes divisive. his breaking from past practices. >> what do you think of him standing where dr. king stood? >> those are figures that wanted to bring the country together.
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donald trump is tearing us apart. those were individuals who wanted to move the country forward. donald trump wants to turn back the clock in ways that will be unfortunate for the great gorgeo gorgeous mosaic that are the american people. spending time to get things done for the american people. we want to fix the crumbling infrastructure and lower the cost of lie-saving precipitation drugs. instead, president trump is fantasizing about this grand display and spending his time interacting with dictators across the country. >> great countries and leaders have found ways to solve problems. we had a great poverty problem.
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social security went a long way towards dealing with it. we had successful attempts towards immigration. do you think this president wants solutions or issues, that he loves the issues he fights over? >> i think you hit the issue there. he clearly is intend on continuing to motivate his very narrow base as a path way toward another electoral college victory instead of r50e67ieachi across the aisle. one of the reasons people are so cynical about the political process right now is because it seems like some in washington, d.c. are only concerned with the political permanent campaign as
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opposed to the space to govern. we as house democrats have indicated we want to governor but we need a partner. >> happy fourth of july, sir. >> joining me now, former congressman from florida and carol king who is performing at the capital fourth, the traditional event held. carol, explain the difference between your performance as an entertainer. >> the show i am performing in is as diverse, mosaic as the people around the country. this is the traditional 39th annual event at the lawn of the capital, which celebrates our birthday. in contrast, you have a separate event. >> which you are the warm up
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unfortunately. yours is around 6:00 and his is later. >> we are the main event and he is following. >> the weather report looks good for the early part of the evening. what do you think about the fact that he is piggy backing his political show on top of the national thing you are proud to be a part of? is. >> his spectacle with the tanks and air show is feeding the ego of someone who is arguably the most insecure person on the planet. >> you think it is ego? >> totally. he's insecure that he needs this. >> white house officials and allies are wringing their hands over the risk of the haftly
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arranged event movering into trump's event. the weather might be bad, heads are spinning. the "washington post" reports that according to one defense official, the pentagon was not planning on tanks to be involved in the fourth of july event until late last week. after the president requested them, they were shipped out from georgia. thank you for joining us. this is a weird thing. this seems like stirring up ego juice. my fear is a lot of people will show up that are pro-trump with their con federal flags waving. your thoughts. >> a lot of people are anxious
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and disappointed. why? george washington gave a great example of what our country is. in the capitol rotunda, there is a painting of when washington turns over his military commission after being elected president to make it clear, in this country, the people are in charge and not the military. in this country, we celebrate the freedom of the people, not the power of the government as people do in other countries throughout the world. i think of cuba, the country my parents fled. you see the military parades there often. our founding fathers didn't want the military at the center. even at the president's white house and among republicans, there is a lot of consternation
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about this because it is a clear break of the 43-year tradition and it is not a positive break. >> why do you think that is? that people that are dictatorish like the castro brothers, everyone thought castro would be a democrat. he swore it. he'd go on meet the press and ed sullivan. he didn't do any of that. he lied to everybody. it was wonderful what you said about george washington. george iii asked someone, what is washington going to do after the war? he was told, he's going back to his farm. george iii said, he'll be the greatest man in the world. everybody respects giving of power like that. >> that's right.
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george washington had the option of being king. he said no. >> what do you think trump would do? >> he would take it in a second. that's what part of this event tomorrow is. that is just the complete opposite of what our founding father decides and what most americans want. >> if they see somebody looking for trouble, just walk away. the last thing we need is another charlottesville. >> i want to make a comment that this is the day that we are honoring the troops and honoring the birthday of our country. this guy is taking troops away from their family. >> let's see what tracks the
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tanks leave. they are 60 tons. they are not meant for promotions. they are meant for defending our country. thank you both for coming here tonight. coming up, you can't appeal a supreme court decision but president trump seems to think it is possible. he's ordering now today to find a way to get that citizenship question back into the census. the battle for the presidential nomination is getting tighter. new polls show some african-american voters may be moving away from joe biden and towards kamala harris. it is getting close for the big battle for iowa this fall. the show down. we are exactly two weeks away from robert mueller's schedule testimony. president trump is already planning a rebuttal in front of
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>> welcome back to "hardball." president trump is demanding his department of justice find a way to circumvent the supreme court and get a citizenship question on the 2020 census. early this morning, the president tweeted, the news report about the department of commerce dropping the quest to put the citizenship question on the census is incorrect or fake. . the secretary of congress said this, the census bureau has started the process of printing the decennieal questionnaires
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without the question. >> telling the judge today, quote, we at the department of justice have been instructed to determine if there is a path forward. and, quote, the tweet this morning was the first i had heard. i can tell you i have confirmed that the census bureau is continuing the process of printing without the citizenship question. last week, the supreme court rejected and added the statement calling it contrived. saying the question was added to protect voters. joined by the senior political reporter and author of the new book "how to read the constitution and why." s that a time lick book. let me go to aaron first, is it going to be in the census 2020?
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>> as it is now, they are printing the census without question. they seem to think they can do that now and still pursue a court case. there are under no circumstances you can do this. there was, the justification you provided wasn't good enough. it wasn't the reason. basically, you fabricated the entire thing. john roberts who wrote this that they could come back and ask. the question is do they have enough time. it is due by april of 2020. and can they come up with a valid ju valid justification. apparently the justice department decided this was not possible. they told this judge on tuesday that they were done. the president tweeted on wednesday that this was not a settled issue.
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he wanted people to look for ways to make this happen. that put these lawyers in the position of basically going back to this judge saying we are going to try something, we don't know what it is. i don't even know what the president is talking about, we are still in this game now. >> so they are printing the exiting format of the questionnaire which does not include a question about citizenship and fighting the court case in hopes that they could get it overturned. >> why do they want the question in there? >> it looks like they want to make it hard for noncitizens answer the question and then be counted. the census numbers are used for purposes of reapportioning congressional districts. >> so they are there for not building up the population of those places. >> the census is about counting
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heads, not counting citizens. >> can you have a congressional seat not adding 600,000 people in the country? >> it is about counting people, not citizens. >> it doesn't forbid the form from getting additional information. >> do you think the average trumpite understands this? >> no, i don't. i actually teach this kind of law. >> who is going to vote for trump who wouldn't normally because it is putting answering a citizen question on your census? >> very few. but if this continues down the road, the president of the united states flouting a supreme court decision. the judge said, what do you want me to do, issue an injunction? >> i think they have to come up with a better argument? >> that's what they have to do.
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>> can they be honest, we are doing this for political power? >> that was a theory after the decision last week. not only did that come down but the partisan gaerrymandering decision came forward. they could come forward and say, yeah, we did this because we want to help republicans. >> are you laughing, or do you mean it? >> that was a pen ten shal argument that they would make. whatever justification offer they have to square with what they said before. they are basically admitting what they said before was total nonsense and not their justification. >> you know what this reminds me of? the muslim ban. first they said, we better fix that. now we'll have countries with
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active terror watches going on. >> john roberts left it. he said the secretary of commerce has broad authority to put questions. they just have to offer justification. i think it was a pretty broad door he left open. >> is this a part of the republican party recognizing they are becoming a smaller group of older white people recognizing that is the so they have to cheat in the efforts like plastic i.d. cards. getting old people who live in row houses to get an i.d. card? >> that's the argument. that is certainly what the record was developed suggested. this as a matter of law is kind of an out of the box decision by justice roberts. the court held the stated
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rational was actually okay. they can give whatever rational they want as long as it is legitimate. the problem was that there was bad faith here reaching out and manufacturing this voting rights act -- >> do you agree that this court would say it is republican partisanship, go ahead. >> not on this case. i this it would have to be in ten years, frankly. >> how does it look right now, we'll have the census in 2020 that doesn't have the question in it? >> there is no way they can delay this. the real deadline is october 31. this is being printed right now. they could throw it all away and reprint it. but october 31 is the read deadline where they have to have a resolution on this. >> thank you so much for coming in. >> "how to read the constitution and why."
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>> i'm big on civics. >> get a copy to the cabinet. >> ahead, newt talks about which democrat is the biggest challenge to donald trump. more with the reverend al sharpton after this break. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine. has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. that helps keep your engine running like new. it's fuel for thought.
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since the first debate. this monday, cnn released the polls in support of kamala harris with the race tightening between her and senator joe biden and an even more dramatic rise for harris up 13 points. nearly two points away from biden. well within the poll's margin of error. today's poll a little different show biden and sanders still ahead of harris and warren. harris didn't just impress democrats. here is what former republican house speaker newt gingrich had to say about her standing in the race. >> who possesses the biggest threat right now? >> he'd probably have a marginally harder time with biden or kamala harris, who i
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think she is probably the most dangerous of the democrats. i also think a left-winged politician from california is a pretty long way from the center of the american political system. >> reverend, i love what you are thinking because i don't know what it is. there is a concept there saying she'd be dangerous on the stage and not so much in the voting booth. >> i think that is probably what he is saying. it is hard to tell with newt. the reality is what senator harris did is show, one, that she would fight and fight on an issue of a lot of people including those they are passionate about. the issue is not just bussing
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but when mr. biden responded, he said well, senator harris, it was the local government. that is a concern not only to blacks, women, lgbtq. are we going back to bathroom cases. how can we say to calm people down, we should let the federal government step back and youer backing back to states rights. that makes them very vulnerable. >> i'm not sure he was arguing the constitutional theory there. i think he was saying don't blame me. >> but it is the government's job. the government's job is to protect the minorities against the tyranny of the majority. that's what the whole civil rights movement was about.
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did they tell the freedom riders, don't ride the greyhound buses, it will cause division. we won't have any of that if that was the deciding factor on people standing up for what was right and what made this country better. >> i think biden has a problem. you can apologize for certain things but he called forced bussing or bussing required by the courts as a nine. it wasn't very popular among working class whites. they didn't feel like they should go back to the old neighborhood they moved out of. i understand that for all kinds of social reasons but you can't defend that today. >> he's using bad examples. there are all these miss steps.
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kamala harris, she showed it wasn't just on one issue particularly to women. >> can she stay on offense? i don't know how you lose if you are constantly on offense. if you are scoring baskets and the other side can't hurt you. biden, i can't think he goes on offense against her. >> i think he'll have trouble. there has been a shift at least in the democratic party. we want to see a woman in office. >> you are speaking for yourself here. i hear it. >> i am. whoever the woman who emerges is the strongest has a really good shot. >> i think things have changed. in a campaign rally senator harris made a case of why she will continue to prosecute.
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>> donald trump has predatory nature and predatory instincts. the think about predators you should know. they prey on the vulnerable. they prey on those who they do not believe are strong. the thing you most importantly know, predators are cowards. predators are cowards. when we look at this campaign and when we look at the task before us, it will be successfully prosecute the case against four more years of donald trump and i am prepared to do that. >> i've been watching debates for years. they are very powerful and last with power about a week and then tend to go back to numbers before. it is amazing. i saw that with reagan and carter. with nixon and kennedy. i heard it said this morning,
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kamala is really good at winning the moment. she did it against brett kavanaugh, bill barr and joe biden but needs a way to sustain that motion. >> i think this time, she's dealing with opponents in the primaries and someone who can continue to go on the offense against policy issues. as i said, state rights against federal government. if she stays on the offensive which distinguishes herself from some of the others, she can turn that into a movement. when you do a stand alone announcement, that's the moment. but you are not in the ring with other people. she showed her strength. that is what a lot of democrats want, whether progressive or moderate. we all know donald trump is
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afraid of prosecutors. we all know that. >> let me ask you this key question. a lot of democrats are afraid of this rape charge. e. jean carroll. it is a serious charge. trump said the central park five should be executed, even before trial. what about this case. she was saying predator. i'm saying that is a factor in this race. i heard predator. >> right. i'm not sure anything sticks. >> a credible charge. why doesn't it stick? >> we heard him speaking about women in a derogatory way on a recording and what he can get away with. talking about sexually assaulting women and it doesn't
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stick. it is an entirely different ballgame. i do think in we have a woman candidate come through the primary, he may have some issues there. >> who is a stronger woman? harris or warren? >> harris. >> that's my favorite question right now. those two are really on the surge. up next, with robert mueller set to testify two weeks from today. president trump is warning him to stick to his script and is planning a counter big rally. who is he? he doesn't work for him. who is he to warn him? or else what? what are you going to do about it? except you are acting like a bully or a predator. we are back after this. ltra-coa.
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>> welcome back to hardball, two weeks from today special counsel mueller will testify in what many see as the last good shot to make their case in the impeachment of donald trump. it will either happen now or never. what could be the most consequential hearings. the president has long called the mueller investigation a witch hunt and a hoech despite the fact that it handed out 34 indictments including paul manafort and former lawyer michael cohen who are both serving time in prison. as well as the president's national security advisor michael flynn who is awaiting sentencing. president trump has not shied away from going after the special council. >> i think he is a total conflicted person. i think mueller is a true never trumper.
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he is somebody who dislikes donald trump. he didn't get a job that he wanted very badly. >> bob mueller is no friend of mine. i had conflicts with him. we had a business dispute. we had somebody who is in love with james comey. >> he terminated them illegally. he terminated all the e-mails. they are gone. that's illegal. that's a crime. >> mueller has already laid out what to expect during his only public statement on camera back in may. >> any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. it contains our findings and analysis and the reasons that were made. the report is my testimony. i would not provide information beyond any republic before
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congress. >> president trump is warning that he better hold true to that. the president tweeted, he said he can only stick to the report and that is what he would and must do after so much testimony and transparency. this witch hunt must end. no more do overs, no collusion, no obstruction, the great hoax is dead. that's trump talking. we learn more about the president's strategy to counter. think about it. that's coming up next. stay with us. joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. get real relief, with cosentyx.
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>> welcome back. donald trump is trying to make sure he's playing offense, not defense when former special council robert mueller testifies in front of congress in 14 days. last night, they announced the president will hold a rally in greenville, north carolina that same day. on capitol hill allies are preparing a coordinated effort to, quote, try to undermine his credibility. trump is already trying to intimidate. congressman, what do you make of these three points of attack?
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they are going to try to intimidate the guy and republican committees will probably try to go after him for struck and his girlfriend and all the bad apple stuff and he's holding a rally. you are going to be sitting there with these democrats getting five minutes and they have a coordinated campaign to bring up all the dirt on mueller. >> i think what i'll point out first, when the spisecial counc mueller was appointed, he was called the perfect choice. none of this is any different of what they've done for almost the past three years which is to act like the president's counselor and legal lap dog to protect the
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president legally. part of the time will probably be involved with defending the special counsel at that time. >> what statement? >> i think that's a great point. look, i have the greatest admiration for the special counsel, but he doesn't get to decide what he is going to talk about. there are very fair questions about what happened to the counterintelligence investigation, where all this began. talk to us about trump tower moscow and what they gleaned, the possibility of money laundering. we know there were people working on the counterintelligence investigation. what did they learn, are they still working on this project, and what is the role of the fbi? a lot of questions for us to understand how the president was compromised. what are the risk to our country as a result of the president being compromised? >> kim, what i was struck by was the bullying tactic of the
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president. it was almost like al capone. he better not go -- he doesn't have any authority in the intugs institutions of government over this guy mueller. he has no right to tell him what to say. >> i think he is scared, because robert mueller, if he could speak freely could really powerfully criticize the president in a way that almost no one else can. this is a life-long republican, chris. he volunteered for the vietnam war when donald trump was in studio 54, who led the fbi after 9/11. and what he didn't do in his report, he said there was no conspiracy, no crime that he could prove, but he didn't pass moral judgment on the trump campaign's flirtation with the russians. he didn't say you know what? this is a terrible idea that they did. this was bad for the country. if he did that, that would be bad for donald trump. he is going to demolish trump's two big talking points that mueller found no collusion and mueller exonerated trump. neither of those things are true. mueller said it in the eight-minute news conference, but now he is going to talk
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about it in detail. let's not forget that news conference moved the polls on impeachment. >> let's talk about that for a moment with the congressman. congressman, you're a political kind of guy. tell me how you can move that dial. can you move it from 20 some percent who support impeachment to 40%? how do you do that when your big day comes two weeks from now? >> i think members have to be very judicious in their time and not give a 4:30 speech and give the special counsel 30 seconds to respond. i think this needs to be a coordinated plan to allow the special counsel to tell the truth. and you're absolutely right. in eight minutes, he moved the dial. he is going to have four hours in front of the american people. it's our job to set him up in a position where he's allowed to go into this in more detail, tell the american people. and if anything, if all he does in four hours is to go into more detail as the fact that the president was not exonerated and why, i think that in itself moves the needle.
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he'll have the opportunity to go into detail in a manner that matters. when i would write long briefs in criminal cases that a three-judge panel would still have a lot of questions, and obviously, the members of the judiciary committee and the intelligence committee will have those kinds of questions. >> has speaker pelosi told you folks on the committees that are hearing the testimony two weeks from now what her standard is in terms of changing her position and going along with impeachment? is there any signal what the standard would be? >> i think that the speaker's public stance has been her private stance. i think she understands how to count noses in the senate and what it might mean from a political point of view. i do think that the needle is moving within the caucus and within the american people. i think asking for the impeachment inquiry will help us from a legal point of view. i call it obstruction after the fact. after the mueller report has been put out, the trump
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administration's obstruction has only got worse. if we're going get to the truth, we're going have to move forward with the inquiry. >> thank you so much. mike quigley over illinois, ken dilanian, thank you both. have a nice fourth of july. coming up, trump's fourth of july spectacle was a bad idea, but there is some good news there. well, about our country, i should say, not about this president. you're watching "hardball." (vo) the hamsters, run hopelessly in their cage.
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i speak now on the eve of this undemocratic spectacle in this city where i work, a city where i have chosen to live my life, a city that i love. i am as you all know a student of national politics. my interests are the relationship between the free individual and the government in washington and the role america should rightly play in the world. i like the way that president harry truman talked about we americans. he called us this country. he didn't mean the government in washington, but the american people and those splendid moments when we feel and act as one. some of those moments i have shared myself. i was in college when jack kennedy was killed. i was in remote africa when 50 years ago this month americans crossed the star-filled night on their way to the moon.
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i shared this country's anger at our leaders' lies over vietnam and watergate, and yes, the petty indignities of the clinton era. and through it all, i have watched the american spirit not only survive, but prevail, where politicians have failed us, the country itself has risen to the challenge, quickan quickened at each new assault on its morale. i have loved this city of washington that trump intends to abuse tomorrow since my first visit here with my parents and two of my brothers back in 1954. i'm especially fond now of driving home at night past the monuments of lincoln and jefferson and looking across the potomac to the lee mansion, and on it the little twinkle of light guarding the grave of john f. kennedy. i think we'll get through what trump has planned for us here, because the good news is we are all still americans. and that same spirit that built this great country continues to rip across it today. the same destiny lures us, the same optimistic rebellious nature drives us that did even
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in those early scary days of recreating our republic. when our country was small but our soul was large, large enough and gutsy enough to declare to the whole world that all are created equal. and that's "hardball" for now. tonight it's a scene from a blockbuster movie, not a celebration on the national maul ahead of donald trump's spectacle at the national memorial. meanwhile, these are pictures migrant children have drown b e based on their time in detention centers. and an about face on the census after a supreme court ruling saying the feds didn't have a good enough reason for including a citizenship question, trump orders the doj to get


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