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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  July 22, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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>> the photo precipitated all of that. susan, phillip, thank you. we have a statement from schumer and pelosi. they confirmed the president's announcement that a bipartisan budget deal has been reached. that's all for tonight. be back tomorrow with more "meet the press" daily and the beat with ari melber starts right now. good evening, ari. >> good evening, steve. thank you as always. bob mueller speaks this week. tonight there is news how less prep and how bill barr is interfering. neal katyal ais here on that. he started this week like last week, stoking racial tension. a top republican who might actually challenge trump in 2020 mark sanford is here tonight as well. that's not all. later on the show, presidential candidate andrew yang along with jermaine dupre together. i'll explain. we begin with the top story. bob mueller's testimony two days away and here's what we're learning right now. first mueller will discuss the criminal evidence against trump
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for five hours before two committees. second, he will deliver an opening statement. that's new. third, bill barr's d.o.j. is again stepping in. something we've been tracking from the start. barr stressing anything mueller knows which is not in the report should be treated as, quote, presumptively privileged from disclosure. let's stop right there. why does that sound a little odd? well, i think you know why. bob mueller is the one who ers on the side of not commenting and disclosing. it was mueller who stayed quiet while barr released letters and excerpts which mischaracterized the mueller report of about it was released. when barr is demanding less disclosure, it stands out. of course, it was barr's justice department that flat out purnd mueller's top prosecutors not to testify at all. and barr has opined against this week's hearing knock being it as an unnecessary public spectacle. for all this talk about how wednesday's hearing could end up
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being a or dry or redo, it does appear that people inside the trump administration are still concerned about mueller and his team talking. because even in his careful style, bob mueller was, in one sense, blunt in his last and only public remarks to date, saying, his probe simply did not allow him to conclude donald trump did not commit a crime. >> as set forth in the report after that investigation, if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. >> and they didn't say so. now, that implicit rebuke of trump does not mean that bob mueller is now standing with the president's critics. far from it. remember, as a legal matter, when mueller steps in front of the world wednesday, he will be a hostile witness under subpoena. he is prepping to be pressed and to push back. he's doing in-depth briefings, mock sessions to mimic the big
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event, so he's ready to take on these committee chairs who have their own view of what mueller found. >> we want bob mueller to bring it to life, to talk about what's in that report. >> the report presents very substantial evidence that the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. >> it's a pretty damning set of facts that involve a presidential cal pacampaign in close race welcoming help from a's foreign power. he is an unindicted coconspirator. >> let's see where we go from there. >> there are damning facts in the mueller report. but some democrats want more than a dry factual presentation. they want to press bob mueller under oath to say in english what the mueller report only said in lawyer jargon. that there is substantial evidence against trump, that it comes from his own staff, and that it suggests he committed multiple crimes in office.
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let me bring in our experts tonight, richard stengel is a top diplomat in the obama administration and former manager of time. caroline dealt with george papadopoulos and those in the probe directly. and nick, former federal prosecutor. good evening to each of you. great panel, if i may say so, on this big event everyone is waiting for, that the administration is apparently uncomfortable with. nick, what does it mean when the democrats want more from mueller than they will probably get and when bill barr wants lessor nothing from mueller? >> they don't -- either side doesn't have to come out on this thing. all they need to bring out are the facts that are in this report. what they need to do is go through the eight instances of obstruction of justice on which bob mueller found a destructive act, corrupt intent and a nexus to a proceeding that trump was trying to obstruct. and then on top of it, they also
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had the evidence relating to the break-in to the democratic national committee. they've got a statement right in that report that says, but for the fact that the national -- the two crimes that relate to the theft of property which mueller says, but for the fact that these two crimes only relate to tangible property goods, that he considered using those against people for trafficking in the stolen documents from the democratic national committee. so they should take that statement, juxtapose it to what trump was doing with respect to wikileaks and what the campaign was doing to wikileaks and also go into the conspiracy relating to the social media where they have evidence from rick gates, the deputy campaign manager to the campaign manager paul manafort, who basically was instructing gates over a regular period of time throughout the campaign to provide konstantin
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kilimnik with the stalled polling data which was the demographic material that could be used to micro target hillary clinton voters and suppress that vote. >> and your point is that's in the report. it matters whether or not mueller found it to be charge age. and he couldn't find anything chargeable against the president under his analysis, the hearing should really put that before everyone. i want to bring in stengel who is both a long-time journalist and diplomat. as a diplomat, you smooth over -- >> i'm an undiplomatic diplomat achlgt >> okay, good. as a journalist you look for the gaps. i ask you to look at the diplomacy also known as the spin, and then the real gaps in what i'm going to read from this new report tonight, that mr. barr, who represents donald trump who they all said oh, it's fine, dry, do over, no big deal. what i'm hearing now is they have been extensively pressing mueller. they don't want to place mueller's team in front of lawyers in the d.o.j., but reading here from this, they say we want to place lawyers in the
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room, but they'd have little recourse to prevent mueller from going off script and reveal details of his investigation that the white house considers off limits. that basically because they're not going to put people in the room to muzzle him, they have been extensively meeting -- >> how can they do that? >> they've been meeting with him saying everything that is not in the report proper is presumptively privileged. what is going on here? >> the d.o.j. has been 3450meet with mueller beforehand? >> they've been telling his people maybe through intermediaries, they've been telling him extensively, this is the headline, mueller should limit his testimony of the report. >> res ipso loquitur. what they are worried about is bob mueller standing there talking directly to camera, answering questions will bring this alive in a way a 448 page report never can be.
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thing that thing that i as a journalist would look for, the absolute nut -- i'm not going to do the perry mason thing because you never get a perry mason -- >> perry mason para docks. >> there you go. the question is why didn't mueller indict him. was it because the president didn't commit a crime? or because there was the jurisdiction, the office of legal counsel guidelines from the justice department saying, you can't indict a sitting president? that would be the one question i would want to have clarity on. and the problem is that he's probably just going to say what's exactly in the report which he said in that brief press conference. >> you say he'll never answer that. >> never. >> you dealt with the team, take a look at how he's ducked in the past. >> yeah. >> i hesitate to speculate because i have just a piece of the puzzle also. >> i would have to check to make certain. >> in every investigation, particularly a fast-moving investigation, there are steps taken that may or may not workout. >> it's very difficult to
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generalize or to reach some sort of understanding or make progress with that generalization. >> what is mbap's so interestin even in the face of all of this, they're scared he may go rogue. they're scared of that 1% possibility. bob is a rule follower now. he's a private citizen now. he doesn't have to listen to the d.o.j. presumptive privilege isn't a legal thing. >> is it not a thing in your view? >> it's not a thing. it's been well documented there is no blanket privilege. >> wait, complete the point. there is an agreement here it's not a thing. what is it? >> the point is they're really scared of this very minute chance he could be so upset that he would fly in the face of his whole history. everything that he's ever lived for, which is that he sticks to the books. he sticks to the four corners of the reports and everything that we know about him, that there's a small possibility that, again, he may go off script and give
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information they think could be damaging. that's just not going to happen. >> right. then it goes to what the president did today, nick, which is you could say he's always mixed. he says, oh, this guy's got conflicts, but take his word for the way i've mischaracterized his findings. but he does appear still concerned about what is going to happen. it's not easy breezy. take a look. >> we had no collusion, no obstruction. we had no nothing. we had a total no collusion finding. the phony investigation where the report was written. it said no collusion. there was no obstruction. robert mueller, i know he's conflicted. there's a lot of conflicts he's got including the fact his best friend is comey. but he's got conflicts with me, too. he's got big conflicts with me. he still ruled and i respikt ecm for it. he still ruled no collusion. >> if you read this report, and you pull out the facts that are there, forget him going rogue.
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the fact remains, once you put all that evidence out in the obstruction, there was obstruction. there's no question. the facts speak for themselves. the problem is the public has not had the opportunity to zero in on those facts. >> and i think that's why the stakes are high even if people feel this is not ideally timed. donald trump may be onto a political propaganda strategy by trying to make everyone feel this is somehow, quote-unquote, older news. why are we still talking about that? president trump understands how to appeal to things that may sound like they're vaguely in the ballpark. the fact there is a methodical process and a subpoena doesn't tell you anything about the underlying facts. i want to do two things. i want to get rick back in. >> i got everything. >> you pick out the page you would like to most ask mueller about, that you think is most important. wait, and you get a minute for your homework of what you would ask. neal katyal said one good question would be, did you find there was no obstruction?
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mueller could say no. if that's what he would say, did you find there was, quote, no collusion? mueller would say, no. that would be a real evisceration of what barr, his boss, has claimed. >> by the way, i did not get my memo on the copy of the mueller report. >> i carry this around with me all the time. >> i'm going to mention one pet peeve about a person who has testified before the house before. the problem is each member gets five minutes and each member is thinking probably as much about people back home as he is thinking about the witness. and what happens is instead of going sequentially, trying to figure something out, each person tries to get his own perry mason moment and they come to nothing. >> obsessed with perry mason. >> yes. nobody under the age of 50 knows who that is. >> false. >> fact check false? >> to get mueller to actually say something that might be potentially revealing, they have to work together to get the questions in a sequential order rather than each one doing his
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or her own questions five minutes. >> i have one question while we're doing references because caroline has been giving us guidance and you're a very sharp lawyer yourself. you say people know perry mason over 50? >> yes. >> how about matlock? >> yes. >> adicus finch? >> oh, yes. >> i'd like to direct your attention to 76 which is a section relating to roger stone and the dissemination of the stolen emails from the democratic national committee. it's a fact, is it not, mr. mueller -- if you look at that footnote -- that your office considered charging people with the theft of stolen property and trafficking in stolen property, is that right? >> so you're saying, ands this is important. talk about something that got lost we reported on. you're talking about they only charged stone for certain things. but you're saying they took very seriously the possibility that people high in the trump campaign would have been
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potentially involved or chargeable for those crimes? >> they said they considered it. mr. mueller, i don't want you to tell me who you considered or how many people you considered, but it's a fact, is it not, based on your report, that this was something that you considered at least against one individual in the trump campaign. >> and given that we have a former representative of a trump official, play us out, if you would, the counter argument. is it the counter argument, republicans on the committee will certainly stick to this, if bob mueller of all people turned everything over, skissed michqu michael cohen, there was a case if he didn't find it? >> that would be an argument i may make in terms of specific individuals. i think why nick is so right on the money, the questioning needs to be so pointed, you'll notice his questions weren't open-ended. so we're not going to hear these muellerisms, these double negatives. we did not conclude that he did not commit a crime. and you kind of have to think it over in your mind multiple times. only leave it open to a skilled
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cross-examination. you get them to go along with your narrative. you continue talking and it's a yes or no question. yes, boom, no, boom, you get your narrative out there. that's what's going to be so important. if democrats or republicans, really, if they want to shape whatever narrative they've got, it's not going to be a quotation from bob mueller. it's going to be their quote and him acknowledging yes or no. >> which really goes to the question, you have not all seen the story the same way. i've interviewed you previously so i know that. i think our viewers may know that. each of you with what could make or break wednesday, do these people who live their lives as politicians find it in their oath of office to stem step back from that and do skillful questioning that informs the public or to quote -- not quote, but paraphrase, richard stengel or are they out there thirst trapping for a perry mason moment? >> i do think this is -- i'm not going to say that name again. this is the moment where they have to become patriots and statesmen and say, we have to
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educate the public about this. volume one, you have to educate the public about the fact that we were attacked in a comprehensive way by a foreign adversary. whether or not the trump campaign worked with them or not is almost -- doesn't matter. >> and volume two, did the president commit crimes to cover that up even if he was in charge of the first -- >> we have to go to a break. >> if he wasn't the president of the united states. >> richard a.k.a. perry, caroline and nick ackerman with the visual aid. thank you each and i'll be coming back to you to get your views on what goes down on wednesday. the reason we have to fit in a break, we have so much more including a fact check of stephen miller defending donald trump's race baiting. does donald trump want to enrich himself by putting the g7 at his own golf course. neal katyal is here to talk about trump's new legal strategy many and i have a live interview with a critic who might challenge trump in the primary. a show to start the week monday fall back with andrew yang and
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let's start with the facts. donald trump wrote the lines that his crowd chanted about sending a u.s. congresswoman back home and stood by as they then chanted for 13 seconds straight. a fact bedevil's trump's top
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aide. watch as stephen miller says president trump disagreed we very chant and watch this claim get blown up on fox news. >> with the send her back chant, the president was clear that he disagreed with it. >> he was clear after the fact -- excuse me. he let it go on for 13 seconds and was only when the chant diminished that he started talking again. >> right. >> he said nothing there. he said nothing in his tweet -- i promise, i'm going to hear you. he said nothing there or in his tweet after the rally that indicated any concern about the chant. >> but i want to get to the core issue. >> yes, let's get to the core issue. what you're saying isn't true. of course, this was after trump himself claimed at one point that he disagreed with the chant he wrote and then reembraced it. donald trump back at it saying the congress women, they're the ones who hate america. he claims no racial tension. there is new reporting his own advisors wanted to focus on their ideas and behavior of his opponents. their concern that trump's attacks are actually, quote,
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looking like a racist agenda. now, one of the four, congresswoman rashida tlaib hitting back today. >> hello! yeah, i'm not going nowhere. not until i impeach this president. it's beyond just the four of us. the squad is all of you. >> joined by former white house and state department officer in the obama administration. host of vice's latin ex. thanks to both of you being here. let's start with what we are witnessing which is slowly and painfully and obviously some factual problems even over there on fox news for people like mr. miller who want to lie about what happened. >> it's a slow and factual and painful thing to see that many people do agree with this. and donald trump is tapping into a part of american identity that frankly hasn't really been resolved since the civil war,
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right, when we talk about the remaining confederate statues and the flags and people holding onto these -- >> what about the idea that it appears to be a problem for them to pretend donald trump didn't support this. >> i think the problem is that they don't want to -- they want to dance around the actual issue and aren't outright coming and owning the fact that they're playing to this american sentiment. they understand there is a media layer that needs to be satisfied as well and there's all sorts of other quote-unquote elites. i think down on the street and at these rallies, they are openly allowing people and encouraging this type of sentiment. donald trump is running a two-part strategy. there is a strategy for the culture war in which he's very clearly come down on the side of america has to look and sound a certain way. a very authoritarian, very white. and the 270 straight strategy, how do you win the electoral college. the second piece is what elected officials and people running for office need to figure out how to navigate. but the first one, the culture dynamic, that's really for
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everyday citizens to work out in their own communities. >> the reason why i'm pushing, i think you make very important points. i'm pushing because it seems that not to make light of this, but there is an aspect of this that what happens at a maga rally should stay at a maga rally. if they think they can get away with that and then in the green rooms and establishment and tv, even on fox, claim that it didn't happen, they somehow will thread this needle. and to that point for your analysis, take a look at mike pence also doing that. i suppose the question is what happens to this dance if even on fox what happens at the maga rally doesn't stay there. >> the president wasn't pleased about it and neergt was i. let's be clear about that. >> you have a chance to tway it right now, don't do it again. is that your message? >> major, the president was very clear. >> was he? >> that he wasn't happy about it. and if it happened again, he, he might -- he -- he'd make an effort to speak out about it.
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>> they're disappointed with us. they want us to be having this exact conversation and have us debate whether or not it was racist and whether or not they meant that. they designed a racist america. they design not by accident, but by choice every single day the fact families are being separated. kids are in cages. deportations are being expedited. it is okay to chant send her back. that is a designed strategy. and that is then using racism as a weapon. that is the basis of what we're seeing and it is -- they want us to have this conversation, but we know that that is exactly the america that they promised on day one and that is the america that he will end with. >> let me play for you also the way that trump aides are defending this. i think the thing about the president tweeting is on the one hand it may be very ugly and requires some sort of accountability. on the other hand, it does add transparency because you can see now there is a written record of him writing, go back home. so when people chant it, we know
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they are repeating what he wrote, not the other way around. this is the last piece of fox sound i'm going to play for you, but it is worth witnessing them struggling to deal with it because they don't want to fully defend that. >> i don't think they were saying send her back as much as they're saying, these views are repugnant. >> some people at a trump rally make some innocent little chant borne of fun. it's a take off on lock her up. >> citizens of this country in north carolina having a little fun, maybe getting carried away. >> they chant some pretty bad stuff at a football game. politics is a tough sport. >> this is a cover for what is actually deeply personal and deeply painful policy for many people of color, right. the same guy who is on fox news defending this is the same guy in the white house who is orchestrating policies under the rubric of the statue of liberty doesn't stand for immigration and freedom. they're talking about reducing the number of refugees to zero. they're talking about a wall at the border. there are policies that are part and parcel of all of this
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rhetoric, and that is what, in getting distracted by donald trump tweets, we often miss, is that they are looking to put into our system a vision of america that unfortunately may outlast donald trump. >> right. and as you say, it's not just fact check what they're saying, but also understand that is the context of the appeal and the policies they are trying to shape. there is evidence tonight, what i'm making sure people understand, there is evidence that they are worried they're losing and that's why there is some backtracking. thanks to both of you. with bob mueller set to testify this week, we're getting new details and we have quite the guest, the one and only neal katyal former solicitor general who will explain when we're back in 30 seconds. 're back in 30 seconds.
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bob mueller's testimony on wednesday will mark the 89th time he's actually faced congress in some fashion. this is far from his first rodeo, and we do know he makes a point of being prepared. while the exact plans for wednesday remain a closely guarded secret, "the new york times" reporting mueller's practice is to meet late into the evenings with staff for days ahead of congressional appearances. studying binders of material and treating the prep a bit like a mock presidential debate with aides playing particular members of congress. most likely to be spoiling for a fight. back with me for our opening argument series is former acting solicitor general neal katyal who argued dozens of cases before the supreme court. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> there is so much talk about the substance, what is in the
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report, what will he say. we all understand how most hearings, and you know this better than many, how they can devolve and this was discussed a little earlier in the show. i want do play some vintage 2013 mueller with the particularly difficult member of congress. take a look. >> your facts are not altogether well -- >> i point out specifically -- >> may i finish -- >> point out specifically -- sir, if you're going to call me a liar, you need to point out specifically where any facts are wrong. >> we went to the mosque. to boston. >> prior to boston? >> prior to boston. >> which mueller are we seeing and which mueller are we going to see wednesday? >> i suspect we're going to see both. look, there's a lot of great decent members of congress both on the republican and democratic side who will ask good questions. but i think mueller is right to prepare for questions from what can be termed the banana wing of the republican party, of which
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you know that representative and there are some others are there. i think we're going to see some weird questions, but i suspect that you know that mueller is prepared for those as well. >> we discussed, and i have quoted some of your interesting questions you would pose to him. when you see these new reports that barr justice department continues to try to narrow what will come out of this hearing, what does that say to you? >> i'm extremely concerned. i don't think it's narrow. i think they're trying to gag mueller and trying to say anything not in the report is presumptively privileged. mueller is so by the book, i is suspe suspect that will influence him greatly what barr and others are trying to say trying to squelch him. >> let me pause, i used the looser term of narrow. you're using barr gagging mueller and leaning into what barr knows, moves mueller with what he knows whether or not that is the rules. >> if the politico report is right, that does seem to me what it's about. here's a good example of where i
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think there's going to be a problem. we know mueller is by the book, but the books actually changed, ari, from the time he turned in the report to now because he turned in the report and said, i can't indict a sitting president and, indeed, a core larry of that is i can't even accuse someone of saying i would have indicted you or labeled you a criminal if i can't indict you because you're not going to have a process to defend yourself. barr a month later goes before the cameras on cbs news, oh, i think mueller could have reached a conclusion whether president trump committed crimes. that's a perfect example of how the book changed and the questions the democrats should be leading the hearing with. >> let me push you a little bit. viewers of our recurring segments know i usually listen and learn from you and you have a lot more litigation experience than i ever did. but i wonder whether respectfully you might sound like a little bit of wishful thinking if the logical point you make is supposed to mean that bob mueller is going to go farther. i think you're right, the logic
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of what mr. barr said would open the door, but isn't everything we know about bob mueller that if he didn't go farther than x in the report, he's not going to go farther on wednesday? >> the whole point is he's by the book. the book said in -- before he turned in the report, according to him, he thought the book said, i can't indict, i can't even label you a criminal. now barr comes along a month later trying to criticize mueller and say actually that's not what the book says. the book allows you to do that. >> you think he will go further? >> i think he absolutely should go further. this is going to be -- in fact, i think that's the job, right? if you're special counsel, you've got to follow the regulations and what the attorney general tells you the rules are. he's saying this is what the rule is. so absolutely, i think it's fully within his powers. indeed, i don't see how he can't answer that question. >> i'll make you a deal, counselor. let's meet up some other monday and talk about this. >> let's do it. >> i'd love that. about before i let you go, i want to ask you something about you drew our staff's attention to, very important, a little off "the beat" enpath. so-called emergency appeals in
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the supreme court. bush used them 6, obama 4, and boom, 28 by trump, emergency requests. sometimes because they're losing so much. explain. >> you can make an emergency request if you're the solicitor general to the supreme court when you lose a case in the trial court or court of appeals. you do it rarely. i might have done it once when i was there. obama we did it once every other year on average, four times in eight years. trump is doing it an astounding 28 times. we haven't seen anything like this. and the question is what's going on? and i think what's going on is two things and it's supported by reporting in "the new york times" and other places over the last couple days. number one is the trump administration doesn't really care about the law. their view is, even if we lose in court, hey, we've signalled to our base that we're tough on immigration, whatever. it's all performance. indeed, they have the lowest rate of success in federal litigation of any administration in i think ever in the history of -- since statistics have been tracked. >> that's a really fascinating flag. it actually is the legal version
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of fighting without regard to the outcomes because he wants to show fight, as you say, and i've got to fit in a break, but makes me wonderer are they tired of winning. neal katyal, eagle eyed and we'll do it again. >> all right. >> if you're interested in catching more neal, will tell you everything you need to get ready for the hearing. no popcorn included. i have a&m drew young and jermaine dupre. he may challenge trump in the primary. we'll get into that live. trump pushing his resort to 0 host a meeting and why that's unconstitutional. beep goes off ]
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consider donald trump's very first presentation after winning the election. it wasn't about jobs or immigration or the cabinet. nope. first thing on his mind was his
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business. >> these papers are all just a piece of the many, many companies that are being put into trust to be run by my two sons. and i hope at the end of eight years i'll come back and i'll say, oh, you did a good job. otherwise, if they do a bad job, i'll say, you're fired. >> trump led with self-interest. defending that decision to be the first person to ever keep profiting off of business while serving as president. claiming there would be no conflicts or self-enrichment. now trump is blatantly leaning into the very same conflict. check out this brand-new story that he's pitching this, struggling doral resort as a place to host and profit off one of the biggest international summits in existence, the g7. trump has gone from using his campaign attention to plug doral to now trying to use your government to get paid. >> it's the best course there is. some of the players that just walked off, they said this is as good as it gets. >> doral, where right now we
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have the world golf championships. >> i buy doral in miami. it was a mess. now it's the hottest resort. >> including doral in miami. >> as you know, doral, which i own. >> doral in miami. >> why would something so iconic need to be sold so hard? well, doral has been bleeding profits, down 41 million since 2016, and this is where trump's conflicts mix with desperation because despite all that promo, there is still a strong negative view of trump as president. hotel customers are not allotted like the electoral college. being unpopular matters. experts say doral is hitting all these problems because of the negative connotation associated with the trump brand. trump may have run for president to burnish his brand, but being president is hurting it. if doral hosts the g7, notice where his profits would come from. foreign governments. that's more than a conflict of interest. it could be an unconstitutional
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foreign gift. the very issue trump is currently defending in court in a major suit by members of congress. we'll keep you posted on all of it. now, when we come back, a fall back special tonight with 2020 dem andrew yang and jermaine dupre. and jermaine dupre. on a full line of utility vehicles. at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $389 a month, for 36 months, and we'll make your first month's payment. experience amazing. hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me.
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i am joined by hip-hop executive producer and song writer jermaine dupre. he's collaborated with all sorts of artists, usher, mariah carey, jay z, kanye. member of the song writer's hall of fame, grammy winning artist. he worked with mariah carey on we belong together. his new documentary power, influence and hip-hop. covers all of the hits. >> most were focused on rap or focused on r & b. he was able to do them both. >> don chi-chi, jermaine dupre. i think that he is a major icon of our time. >> she'she's a rapper, he's a - >> diva. >> divo. >> andrew yang, tech entran nur and philanthropist, obama administration, selected him as a champion of change for his work training people in tech. thanks for both of you for being here. >> thanks for having me.
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>> it's great to be here, man. >> i love seeing the two of you together. >> love being here. >> ying and the yang. >> that's right. i may see the yen. >> the ying-yang twins. >> they call it gang-gang. >> you have to go there. there's a yang yang rap, yang yang videos on line. i want you to produce one. >> andrew, who needs to fall back? >> i think the new york knicks need to fall back on so many levels. i've been a fan since i was a kid. summer league knicks skipped shaking hands with their opponent after the third straight game. no way, you can't be displaying poor sportsmanship on top of losing the game on top 69 epic mismanagement of the team. it's like a team now composed of overpaid role players after they missed out on kevin durant and kyrie irving and everyone else. so being a knicks fan, it's never been harder, never been
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worse. if you're going to be bad, at least be good sports about it. >> it's fun in, i'm from atlanta. what i hear new yorkers say, i've been a knicks fan my whole life. and i think that sometimes you've got to pull away in order for people to get their mind right. >> yeah, you have to end an abusive relationship. and that's what being a knicks fan is like. >> jermaine, who needs to fall back? >> arby's. i don't know what y'all talking about, y'all need to fall all the way back. what is, what is -- >> a meat-based vegetable. >> arby's making waves because they're making carrots with meat. >> i feel like they're trying to make fun ever vegans. for real. it's like all this vegan talk and all these other restaurants. >> and you're vegan. >> yeah. let's do something that's different. >> i think it's a way to have meat as your main and then meat as your side, and then meat as your other side. it's more ways to get meat on the plate. >> at a certain point, if this
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is an arby's meat carrot, at some point just get a burger. >> that's what i'm saying. are three trying to attract me? they want me to come in there and say i want a carrot. trick me into eating meat. >> maybe it's for husbands who want to seem like they're eating healthy to their wife. watch me eat these carrots but they're really eating a steak. >> i'm not married. i wouldn't know anything about that. >> my fallback is a little bit consumption food related, which is starbucks has uncorked this t tie-dye frappuccino. i'm more of a coffee person. tie-dye is something that's fun. it may be ugly fashion, but it's fun. people are hating on the tie-dye frappuccino. i'm telling them to fall back. you can have a tie-dye drink if you want. >> what's wrong with tie-dye? when you're a kid, you get a drink off the ice cream truck.
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>> the color. the rainbow is part of it. when you give my kids a choice of any ice cream, they want rainbow sprinkles. >> how do you feel about tie-dye? i don't know if you have a policy on that. >> i just couldn't pull it off as a kid. i wore a tie-dye. people are like why is the asian guy wearing a tie-dye? i'm the last person to pull off the hippies '60s. >> i wore a tie-dye. >> what is that, a '70s throw back? >> it was a white jumper and we just tie-dye so it had a bunch of colors. >> nice. what else is on your fallback list, jermaine? >> the patti labelle thing. they spend labelle wrong. >> trying to honor her. >> i have a question. is it normal to, um, um, capitalize the b in labelle? if it wasn't patti labelle,
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would you capitalize the b? >> are you good at spelling, andrew? >> i was a bit of a nerd, i won spelling bee's. >> is that a thing to capitalize the b? >> that b should be capitalized, that's my expert my expert opin >> oh, okay. >> the french root. the woman or the girl. >> boom. >> so "b," like the -- >> there it is. okay. the french root. all right. i'm glad we got you here. >> that's the kind of judgement we need in the white house. >> 100%. okay. well, that's what i'm talking about. >> jermaine dupree, thanks for being here. andrew yang, thanks for being here. what other judgement do we need in the white house? well, former republican marc sanford is here. there will be no spelling tests, sir, but i'll see you on the other side when we come back. yoe other side when we come back you get the price match guarantee. so if you find your room at a lower rate, hilton is like... we're gonna match that rate and give you an extra 25% off. what would travel sites do if you found a better price? that's not my problem, it's your problem.
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at their reddest, ripest, they make everything better. like our strawberry poppyseed salad and new strawberry summer caprese salad. strawberry season is here. panera. food as it should be. {tires screeching} {truck honking} [alarm beeping] (avo) life doesn't give you many second chances. but a subaru can. (dad) you guys ok? you alright? wow. (avo) eyesight with pre-collision braking. standard on the subaru ascent. the three-row subaru ascent. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. donald trump may have another challenger, and it's a republican, a name you've probably heard. south carolina governor and congressman mark sanford, who is here right now. he's considering taking on trump. he's no stranger to feuding with
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the president. trump actually helped dislodge him from office after endorsing his primary challenger and alluding to his past personal problems. he's also poised for a political fight and has been a vocal critic. >> somebody's got to stop trump. i think it is dangerous for our republic. >> there is no seeming consequence for the president and lies. >> he came to this chamber, sent a chilling message to my colleagues, which is, if you mess with me, i'll mess with you. >> mark sanford, thanks for coming on "the beat." >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> if you challenge donald trump in a republican primary, what is your argument against him? >> my argument against him -- my chief argument against him would be that he's in essence led the republican party off to the sidelines as it relates to the way that we spend money. i mean, not so many months ago republicans would have been going nuts if the budget deal
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that's now being contemplated. you really don't hear a peep from republicans. this idea of financial realism or financial conservatism used to be a hallmark of the republican party. >> sure. >> he has said himself that i'm the king of debt. it's something that doesn't bother me. the problem is he always had his daddy to bail him out when he got into trouble. we do not have that luxury as americans and we are in a profound math matich problemati. do we believe what we used to say about fiscal conservatism? >> that's what i want to ask you about. your point here is in line with the economic facts, and i've had trump officials on this show and talked to them and pressed them with the rising deficits, the type of spending that they're doing that they were so critical of when obama did it. but does that mean that your campaign rises or falls on whether the trump base has been consistent about its beliefs or
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whether everything goes out the window because it wasn't ever about the deficit? >> well, my belief is, i mean, you have to remember, ari, i've been in politics both as a two-term governor, you know, 12 years in the united states house of representatives. i bet i've had thousands upon thousands of different meetings with folks at the grassroot level. and so i don't think that their belief system, that small business person that i've talked to, that soccer mom trying to get their kids to and from soccer practice. whatever the case might be, you think about those people that make up the republican party, i don't think their belief system has disappeared. i do think that leadership from washington has disappeared on this front, and that's what i'm exploring over these 30 days as to whether go versus no-go. >> what do you know from -- as you mentioned your longtime service as a pretty long time as a republican in the house. if you're going to take him on, he doesn't hold back. you know that about him. >> yeah. >> so are you going to hold back? >> i think that's an understatement. being a human pinata doesn't
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have a whole lot of appeal. but here's the bottom line. >> let me tell you where i'm going with this. are you going to uncork and let everyone know everything you know about what the republican caucus really thinks, about what paul ryan really thought of him back in the day, about what lindsey graham really says behind closed doors? is it one of your greatest assets, your ability to take us into those secret cloak rooms where we hear all these hints and rumors and leaks that maybe some of these republicans don't actually abide by what donald trump does? is that going to be something that's off limits for you? >> i think to your general point -- i think to your general point there is something of a conspiracy of silence on that front, but some of it has already been exposed. i think tim alberta just did an interesting write-up on paul ryan and what he believes now versus then. >> but by interviewing people like you. someone had to tell tim the stories. >> yeah, i wasn't a part of that particular piece, but i think it was rather revealing on what paul ryan really thought about president trump -- >> so let me ask you this, we
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talked economics in your story -- before i let you go and toss to "hardball," do you think that more people in the republican caucus and congress are concerned about donald trump's management, the chaos and the race baiting or do you think they're actually secretly fine with all of it? >> i don't think they're fine with that, but, again, i want to go back to the core of what i'm trying to get to the bottom of over these 30 days, which is i particularly don't think they're fine with the way in which washington is spending their money these days. >> anything else we should know before i let you go? i got 30 seconds. >> 30 seconds? >> yes, sir. >> what i'd say is we're walking our way towards the most predictable financial crisis in the history of man and it will impact every one of us and our hopes and dreams for our kids if we don't get this thing right. >> mark sanford, considering a run from the deficit right of donald trump. governor, congressman, thanks for coming un"the beat." >> my pleasure. >> yes, sir. if you jump in the primary, we'll be sure to have you back.
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that does it for "the beat" tonight. appreciate you spending some time with us. i'll be back live from washington tomorrow, 6:00 eastern for the eve of the mueller hearings with, i promise, some very special guests tomorrow. don't go anywhere. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. no truce. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. in just a moment, brand-new reporting on efforts by the department of justice to convince robert mueller to limit his testimony this week. i'll talk to the vice chair of the judiciary committee. first up, president trump is not stopping his attacks on four minority congresswomen, now with his latest argument against the squad. after he spent last week trying to reverse the fallout from his racist tweet the weekend before, attacking the


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