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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  July 23, 2019 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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going to be a democratic social media campaign #retweet the report where democrats are going to urge celebs and others to retweet the key quotes from the report. >> all right, my friend, we'll be reading axios a.m. in a little bit. and you too can sign up for the newsletter by going to sign-up.axios.com. >> that does it for us. i'm yasmin vossoughian with ayman mohyeldin. "morning joe" starts right now. several months ago a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise donald trump and three times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. three times he asked at one point if we have them, why can't we use them. >> trump asked three times -- >> three times in an hour
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meeting why can't we use nuclear weapons. >> north korea they will be with met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> any attack by iran on anything american will be met with great and overwhelming force. in some areas, overwhelming will mean obliteration. >> if i wanted to win that war, afghanistan would be wiped off the face of the earth. it would be gone -- it would be over in literally in ten days. >> brief history of president trump threatening nuclear with war. we'll get to his comments about decimating afghanistan in a moment. plus, remember money party, joe? >> i love it. >> it seems like the one thing that gets bipartisan support is just to keep on spending. both parties back a bill to borrow now and pay later. a money party.
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plus, a big day for great britain. the uk picks a new prime minister but what does it mean for brexit? and mr. mueller at the microphone. the former special counsel testifies tomorrow and the president is bracing for it. good morning. it's tuesday, july 23. we have mike barnicle, former economic analyst steve rattner, senior adviser at moveon.org, karine jean-pierre and eugene robinson is joining us as well. good to have you on board this morning. the white house and congressional leaders have reached a deal to raise the country's debt limit and dramatically raise spending levels. avoiding a potential showdown to
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avoid a government shutdown, and it followed intense negotiations led by nancy pelosi and steven mnuchin. it is expected to clear both the house and the senate before lawmakers leave for their august recess. though it is likely to face considerable pushback from conservatives and budget hawks under the plan the debt limit will be suspended until july 31, 2021. and automatic spending cuts that would have kicked in without a deal will be halted. the pentagon's budget will be increased by $22 billion to $238 billion next fiscal year. the plan will also boost nondefense spending by $27 billion to $632 billion. while president trump is touting the deal as a victory, it will mean more red ink for an already ballooning deficit. before the deal he was facing a
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$1 trillion deficit this year. as a candidate in 2016 trump bragged that he would pay off the entire federal debt in eight years but as of friday the national debt stands at more than $22 trillion. another broken promise or exaggerated promise, let's put it that way, joe. >> no, it's just a broken promise. he said he would pay off the debt. not only did he not pay off the debt, federal spending has increased at record clips. we're spending more than we ever had before as a federal government. centralized state is bringing in more money. spending out more money. printing more dollars that are worthless. we have right now, steve rattner, again we're over $22 trillion in debt. donald trump actually promised on the campaign trail that he would pay off the debt. but in fact his yearly deficits have exploded. defense spending has exploded.
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nondefense spending has exploded. entitlement spending has exploded. this is big government republicanism like we have never seen before. and to have this sort of budget deal where everybody agrees to spend even more money when social security, medicare, medicaid is buckling under the weight of demographic changes is -- it's just one more extraordinarily reckless example of how republicans just don't mean anything they said. >> it's really quite remarkable. you had this period after the great financial crisis when the deficit did hit $1 trillion for what i would argue were legitimate reasons, deep recession and then it got -- and obama worked it down and down with a lot of pressure, a lot of political pain and now you have a situation where both sides
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kind of say to each other, what do you want, republicans want more military spending and lower taxes. fine, you can have that. democrats want more domestic spending and don't touch entitlements, fine you can have that. so everybody get what they want, it's like a kid's birthday party and the consequences as you said the deficit is headed back to $1 trillion and we just -- to tease my charts we have a chart to lay that out for you graphically a bit later. >> yeah. we'll talk about that a little bit later. mike barnicle, the last few years of the obama administration discretionary, nondefense spending went down 3%. under donald trump, it's shot up by 4%. and again, these aren't entitlements. this isn't the military. this is the rest of everything. this is government. even with the $22 trillion debt, it's gone up. so donald trump has passed a massive tax cut that helps -- as he said to his buddies, made all
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of his billionaire buddies richer, helped multinational corporations and the defense spending has exploded. domestic spending has exploded. everything has exploded. the deficit, $1 trillion, that is the highest, biggest deficit yearly deficit of all time when we're in good economic times. and again, the national debt, the trump national debt over $22 trillion and breaking records every day. and let me just add nobody cares. i have written three books about this. nobody in washington seems to care. >> well, joe, one of the most amazing things about the negotiations over this budget deal was that your former political party clearly has a high tolerance for deficits now that they never had before. it's just amazing. and they also must have, karine, a high tolerance for hypocrisy because as joe pointed out during the obama administration, you know, if you're at 25 cents
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over, you know, no, we can't do that program because you're exploding the deficit. but now, no. >> yeah. now we're in a totally different ball game here. let me say two things. the first thing is who knows what donald trump will actually do. we have seen time and time again he's not a reliable deal maker. he'll watch a segment on fox and he'll go back and forth so we don't know will he land on this, but i have to say, democrats i don't understand their strategy here. and i'll say this, because they got very little out of it to me because they're giving donald trump a pass for the rest of his term on the debt ceiling. and, you know, two, for the new democratic -- >> but they got a pass on that too. >> they did but i guess my point is they're leaving a ticking bomb for whoever comes in next to be the new democratic -- you know, the president. this is not good. this is not good at all. and so everyone just kind of sits back and, you know, that's it? just doesn't make sense.
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i just -- i do not see what democrats got out of this. >> everybody -- mika, everybody spins, spins, spins and walks away happy and they -- just for those who are cynical and say well, that's what they always do it's not what they always do. when i got elected to the u.s. house i said balancing the budget was going to be my top priority, it was a real concern at the time. everybody said it couldn't happen. we balanced the budget four years in a row. four years in a row. that's the first time that happened since the 1920s. about a hundred years ago. it can happen. but it takes tough choices being made every day. and for people sleeping at home, why does this matter i'll tell you why it matters because at some point your social security checks are going to stop coming in. at some point your medicare checks are going to stop coming in. at some point, all of these politicians on both sides of the aisle telling you everything is
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going to be okay they're lying to you and they're lying for different reasons. we can't continue to go -- you know, to put it in perspective when i was in washington, i was complaining about a $4 trillion debt. when george w. bush got elected it was a $5 trillion debt. when barack obama got elected, it was an $11 trillion debt. donald trump got elected about $18 trillion. it will be a $30 trillion debt most likely before donald trump leaves office. guess what, we can't keep printing money, we'll be argentina and your social security checks and your medicare checks will stop coming. just ask the medicare trustees and the social security trustees the numbers don't add up, mika and donald trump, again, lying to the american people saying that he was going to pay down the debt. >> right. >> like he said he'd give them better health care, like he said he wasn't going to fight against pre-existing conditions. just like he said he was going to make people's deductibles lower and their -- i mean,
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everything the man has said during the campaign about health care, deficits, medicare, social security, all lies. >> last time i checked four conservatives, spending and the deficit was an important issue to them. still don't understand what they think they're getting out of donald trump. what they're holding back for. we're going to review -- we're going to revisit this, but at exactly 6:47 eastern time, we're going to learn who is the new prime minister of the united kingdom. it comes down to former foreign secretary, boris johnson and the current foreign secretary, jeremy hunt. in the latest column for the financial times, entitled, donald trump, boris johnson and the shesons from the 1930s, it is asked when is it right to sound the alarm about political
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turmoil. the complaints by today's populists that a deep state in the u.s. and britain is thwarting the will of the people is reminiscent of the far right in germany in the 1920s. with deep hatred they coined the word system for the unpalpable force that held them within bounds. for the moment at least they were held in bounds and hafner had a deep intellectual contempt for the nazis and the revolting jargon. every syllable of which implied a violent stupidity. but this contempt turned out to be a political trap. because i was inclined not to take them very seriously. a common attitude among their inexperienced opponents which helped them a lot. >> gene robinson, very quickly, before we go to bill neely in london -- >> this is important. >> when do you sound that political alarm? there are certain things we are
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not allowed to say, but i must say the last week we have seen the united states of america go from electing a candidate who promised to keep muslims out of america, who prayed against that discrimination and having a muslim registry like the nazis had a jewish registry and now a president who is now talking about kicking out american citizens. be they muslims or hispanics or black women that he just doesn't like, which he says they are quote lucky to be here. so we look at this ft article and i'm wondering, gene, when is the time to sound the alarm? when is the time to start saying, well, does this look like germany in 1932? does this look like germany in 1933? is now the time to start asking that question?
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>> well, the time to start sounding an alarm -- a general alarm was some time ago. and people should be screaming now. the alarm should be at full volume. you know, one thing you -- most columnists wisely resolve is don't bring out the hitler/germany analogy, you know? that's -- you never use that. we're getting close. i mean, we're getting to the point where you need to start just looking at the historical precedent and understanding that, you know, history doesn't repeat. it rhymes. but there are some awful, awful things happening in the great democracies that sort of uphold the western -- the western values and western order. and have done so for decades d and, you know, the united states
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and britain and this is crazy and it does not end well. >> all right. joining us from london, nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely with the latest. bill? >> yeah, as you say in just under an hour's time, in a staggeringly undemocratic vote by 160,000 members of britain's ruling conservative party, we will know who britain's next prime minister will be. they are mostly male, mostly middle aged, mostly english and mostly anti-european and it's almost certain that boris johnson will be elected by them to be britain's next prime minister and succeed teresa may. johnson doesn't have a lot of time to impose himself and his views to unite the country and most of all to get a deal on brexit because he has said
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britain must be and will be out of the european union by november, do or die, come what may. now he's set the bar pretty high for himself because quite frankly, although the prime minister will change, the actual realities of this situation on brexit and in britain haven't changed at all. the european union is still unwilling to negotiate the divorce deal and the house of commons has no idea what it wants and really has not presented an alternative to europe. going back to donald trump, hold on to your hats, guys, because we now have another unpredictable maverick on our side of the atlantic. a man who many people consider to be britain's donald trump. not just blond and brash, but with a strange relationship to the truth. boris johnson has built a career both as a journalist and as a politician, twisting the truth.
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there has been quite some -- quite strong anti-immigrant rhetoric from johnson over years. and many people are wondering what this means to have donald trump in the white house, boris johnson and a weakened uk as we confront situations like iran, for example. and boris johnson's main fear is that he could be the shortest lived prime minister in british history because the ruling party only has a tiny majority in the house of commons, thanks to another small irish party. so there will be no honeymoon for johnson and many people absolutely loathe him. this country on johnson is just as divided as the united states is on trump. >> all right. nbc's bill neely, thank you so much. we really appreciate it. later this hour we'll be talking to the uk's ambassador to the united nations. she will be our guest. let me ask you, steve rattner, just about the elevation of boris johnson. there have been some scathing
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anti-immigrant statements that he's made through the years. he has at times a very interesting relationship to the truth. far better read obviously than donald trump, but there are many, many parallels and the ft article this morning, actually that mika read from was about johnson and donald trump and you certainly travel the world doing business a good bit. describe to our viewers what it means to have boris johnson at ten downing, donald trump in 1600 pennsylvania avenue and the type of leaders that we're now seeing in italy and across central europe. >> yeah. look, it's a very scary situation because at least teresa may was a stabilizing force trying to do the right thing. a rational thinker, a clear thinker. and now you have someone who is
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as you guys have been saying who really is another donald trump in another form. a little bit smarter, a little bit more well read. maybe even more unpredictable in a lot of ways. a little bit more sort of crazy if i can use that word, not in a clinical sense, but just in an unpredictable sense than donald trump was. and so -- then you layer brexit on top of that where he's committed to get the uk out of the eu by october 1st no matter what even without a deal which will cause incredible chaos between the uk and europe and compound the slowdown in the world economy we are seeing now. you have angela merkel who is close to the end of her time, with her tenure and she has been having recent health problems and emmanuel macron who is incredibly unpopular and it's
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like dominos. when you pile unstable things on top of unstable things some scary things can happen in the world. >> we really see what happens when there's a lack of u.s. leadership across the globe where america is looking inward. >> that is correct. >> and trying to root out people that the president of the united states considers enemies, because of the color of their skin. or actually more tyrannical because they don't support him. again, i think we can never overlook what lindsey graham said this week that if you're an immigrant and you support donald trump, then he's not going to attack you and then he's not going to call you out and tell you that you need to leave the country. wow. >> yeah. >> let me ask you, gene, a little bit more. you served as the washington bureau chief in london for some time. boris johnson first came to a lot of american's attention when some profiles started to run of
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this strange, brash member of parliament who actually in his first campaign promised men that if they voted for him they'd have more money in their pocket, a bmw in their driveway and then he made an inappropriate promise about their wife. something that would probably have him fired today, but just like donald trump. everybody laughed at boris, thought he was a clown. and here we are, now he's going to be britain's next prime minister. >> right. he's an interesting figure, as everyone has said. he's very well educated. eton and oxford. he almost got a first at oxford, he didn't quite get there. he was born in new york actually. kind of an itinerant family. grew up in brussels, partly in england, of course. and i -- i first ran across him when i was bureau chief.
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he was the european union correspondent for "the daily telegraph." and he was an amusingly dishonest journalist. he was a star. and he would find one kernel of a portion of a fact and construct an elaborate narrative around it that was always about sort of euro confederates living like pashas and doing all sorts of things. it was to appeal to the sort of little england anti-european sentiment that a lot of the readers had and it was enormously successful. he had earlier been fired by the times of london for dishonesty, but he recovered from that. then he went into politics and became mayor of london and invented this persona for
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himself, with the mop top and the sort of shambolic appearance and making fun of himself. he's like a reality show character just like donald trump. that they have in common and that unpredictability comes from that. i'm going to win today for ratings, i'm going to come up with something boffo for today's show and that's what it's like. >> from reality show to reality, still ahead on "morning joe," bob mueller insists he doesn't have much to add to his russia probe. but you can bet members of congress will try their hardest to get him to get them to tell them more. we have new details on what the former special counsel can and cannot say. plus new reporting from nbc news on the atrocious situation on the southern border. it is really tough to hear, but absolutely necessary to report. that is just ahead, but first, let's get a check on your
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weather now with meteorologist janessa webb in for bill karins. >> good morning, mika. we have a quarter million people without power in new jersey and it's all due to this torrential rain that continues to flow across the northeast here. you can see bands of moisture, they will continue throughout the day. seeing that live video from last night, we had about six to eight inches in parts of new jersey. just in the last two days and unfortunately that's going to continue here for the next 24 hours so right now, flash flooding is an issue across new york city, into boston. this afternoon with 37 million under that risk. after the front starts to pass here, we're actually going to see bright sunshine make its way into the north east. unfortunately we are forecasting this tropical depression, the front will work across the southeast. this will stay off shore, but it will cause flooding rain across florida and coastal areas from
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south carolina to north carolina. also winds picking up to at least 35 miles an hour. let's look at the plaza right now. we have flooded streets across new york city, but hopefully going to start some clearing here in the next 24 hours. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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tomorrow morning at 8:30 eastern, former special counsel robert mueller will appear before the house judiciary and intelligence committees and the department of justice is telling mueller to keep his promise and stick to the report. the letter came from the associate deputy attorney general that is in response to the request for guidance from mueller earlier this month.
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and implies that mueller cannot discuss his disagreements with attorney general william barr. quote, any testimony must remain within the boundaries of your public report because matters within the scope of your investigation were covered by executive privilege. including discussion about investigative steps or decisions made during your investigation, not otherwise described in the public version of your report. the letter adds, it is the department's long standing policy not to discuss the conduct of uncharged third parties. a spokesman for mueller, jim hopkins said on monday that mueller will have a brief opening statement and will then offer the entire report of the special counsel investigation as his full statement. for the hearing record. mueller intends to abide by the
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commitment he made in his only public statement. any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. >> well, mike barnicle, it is outrageous that robert mueller can't talk about the concerns that he might have with barr. especially when barr made misstatements about the nature of his report. they had conversations about those disagreements. and it really -- this entire situation is going to be fodder for constitutional lawyers and constitutional law professors for years to come because you have a president who it was suggested in this report could have been charged on ten separate occasions for obstruction of justice. but mueller said he couldn't do that because the justice department told him he couldn't do that now the justice department is saying you can't talk about the president of the
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united states obstructing justice or what charges you would have brought because we told you that you couldn't charge him. again, it's circular logic and again everything the justice department is doing now is to protect donald trump politically. it has nothing to do with what's the law or what's right. >> you know, joe, even with the justice department guidelines that were issued last night in response to bob mueller's request for guidelines, i think a lot of democrats are going to be disappointed tomorrow in bob mueller's testimony. and i think a lot of republicans on the judiciary committee when they begin to probe him on the roots of the russia investigation are going to get some real pushback from the former direct of the fbi. he will stand up for the people who have worked for him, both in the bureau and during the investigation. and you know, listen, let's face
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it. the bottom line is there are only three questions that most americans want the answer to. was there obstruction, was there collusion and would donald trump have been indicted had he not been the president of the united states? those are three pretty simple questions but i don't think he'll -- i don't think you'll get the answers to those tomorrow sadly. >> let's bring in national political reporter for nbc news, carol lee, with lingering questions that mueller is likely to face. specifically, why donald trump jr. was the only american attendee of the infamous trump tower meeting in july of 2016 not questioned by investigators. that is a really good question, carol. >> yeah. mika, it is one that is certainly chairman schiff of the intelligence committee talked about over the weekend as something that he seems likely to ask robert mueller about. that was a key focus of the investigation in terms of the collusion portion of the
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investigation. you know, this was not some he said/he said. there were explicit emails from russians to trump -- to donald trump jr. making an offer for information and explicit acceptance of that offer, interest in the offer. and then there was this meeting and one of the things that we don't know is why donald trump jr. wasn't interviewed, why the -- as part of the investigation. robert mueller's report said he declined on the voluntarily interviewed and that is a key, because it suggests that there was an ask so sources we spoke to said there were two possible reasons that donald trump jr. was not interviewed. one that investigators decided he wasn't important to the investigation. that seems according to them impossible to believe given that he arranged this meeting. on the second possible reason would be that he decided to
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invoke his fifth amendment right and donald trump's lawyer declined to comment on whether he did that. but as i said earlier, chairman schiff said you know that he intends to dive into evidence of the pieces of evidence that relate to the collusion portion of the investigation. he specifically mentioned this instance. this trump tower meeting so we're likely to see this come up. however, you know, whether robert mueller decides to add anything to what we don't know is a real open question and seems highly unlikely given everything that you guys know as well as anybody. you know, he just doesn't want to go any further than what he's already said. >> well, what would be the reason not to explain why donald trump jr. wasn't -- i mean, it seems like fair game to understand why a central player in that meeting which is central to everything with the report was not questioned. >> well, if you look at the page 117 of the report which
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addresses this question where it says that he declined to be voluntarily interviewed the next sentence in that is redacted. and it says that -- you know, because it was grand jury -- that has to do with grand jury material so that's the reason why potentially robert mueller might not say anything or disclose why he wasn't interviewed. you know, chuck todd had asked president trump a few weeks ago whether don jr. has been subpoenaed and the president's answer was i don't know. you have to ask him. well, we have and we haven't gotten an answer. >> carol lee, thank you so much. we appreciate your reporting. >> thanks. >> you know, there's -- steve rattner, it's frustrating. there's a recurring theme here about all of these investigations going on and everybody pulling back before giving americans the answers that they need. despite the fact that americans have paid millions and millions of dollars to -- for these investigations.
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so now we're not going to hear why don jr. wasn't subpoenaed, why he wasn't investigated? when he set up that infamous meeting, he also was excited about it and said love it, can't wait to have the meeting. that's the first guy you want to actually interview. the question that needs to be answered is why didn't he subpoena donald trump? the united states supreme court most likely would have upheld that subpoena and made donald trump sit down and be interviewed by robert mueller. if you're doing an obstruction of justice case and you have ten instances that you believe justice was obstructed you need that answer. we could ask the same thing of the southern district of new york. it is believed by most legal scholars, many legal scholars that donald trump's payoff to stormy daniels was illegal. it violated the fec. well, the southern district of
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new york drops those charges, doesn't explain why. was it again because the justice department is protecting donald trump for so long he's president of the united states and if that's the case, so you're saying somebody can break the law to get elected president of the united states and then you can't charge them with that crime because they're president of the united states? talk about circular logic. and just a complete obliteration of our belief that no man is above the law. so what do we expect from mueller tomorrow? >> it also doesn't really fit entirely into the historic parallels. for those of us of a certain age we can remember leon jaworski, he named nixon as an unindicted co-conspirator. ken starr what we liked it or not probably told us more than we wanted to know about bill clinton's activities but certainly didn't hold anything back and now as you have just described we have this odd situation where we have a
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special prosecutor of an impeccable integrity who went about this in as nonpartisan, as methodical of a way as you can do it and then has this odd place where he's decided to stop and not go any further. and what i worry about and it's really more from a political point of view is that he will stop tomorrow and he will not go any further. he will simply either repeat or read from that report and donald trump with his huge megaphone will stand up and say, you see, i said no collusion or obstruction and mueller agreed with me yesterday even though he didn't and we'll be in that situation. so i think the democrats are playing a slightly high risk game here as to whether this actually helps them or hurts them in trying to make it clear that donald trump broke a lot of laws. >> the questions are going to be really important. we want to reporting now from nbc news, two weeks ago nbc's julia ainsley and jacob
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soboroff broke a story about the conditions at a u.s. border patrol station in yuma, arizona. they obtained more than two dozen significant incident reports written by government case workers based on what children had described to them being held there. the report included an allegation of sexual assault and retaliation against kids who asked for clean water and food. and julia sat down with a guatemalan boy who was held there for 11 days. 17-year-old abner describes in detail what he went through, including being held in a cell that was so crowded he was forced to sleep standing up. not knowing what time of the day it was because the lights were always on. and not being able to properly drink water. drink water.
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>> and julia joins us now with more on her new reporting on those conditions inside the yuma station. julia, incredible that this continues. >> it was. it was incredible that abner took the time and had the courage to sit down with us. it's so rare, mika, to get immigrants to talk to us. especially because they have a fear of being targeted for deportation and let alone a child that took an enormous amount of bravery on his part to sit down with us and of course that's why we're not showing his face or sharing his last name. but i think what he got into especially when he talks about
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his treatment by the guards shows more than a government has been willing to admit when it comes to the retaliation. he talked about asking what time it was, because of course he didn't know because the lights were always on and he was mocked. they said, why, do you have a meeting to get to? the guards would yell at them if they got too close to the windows and of course being denied food if he wanted more. we talked about the soap, the bathing conditions but he kept going back to food which is an even more basic human need.
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>> so mika, that perfectly shows you how these older children, the 16, 17-year-olds had to care for what they called the little ones because they didn't have the food. he thought he could stand the hunger, he could stand standing up, he had to stand up for the
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first 48 hours trying to sleep because they were so concerned about the little children. because the guards weren't taking care of them. he said when they would cry out the guards would get more angry so the people in his cell had to band together to take care of the little children. i will say that we have reached out to dhs and customs and border protection about the allegations they say they're reviewing it and any allegations of misconduct would be referred to the office of professional responsibility. but that they don't believe that the time that abner was there these 11 days from late may to early june that the conditions were as he described it. but you can see in perfect detail how he describes them. >> customs and border protection released a statement in part saying the claims are inconsistent with customs and border protections records. corresponding to the juvenile migrant's time in custody from may 25 to june 2019. it is important to note that we take all reports of employee
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misconduct seriously and has been referred to customs and border protection office of responsibility. joe, doesn't seem like -- i think the word -- this seems like a condition that is different than mistreatment. it sounds like a large group of people are being put in a situation where they are being tortured. they can't sleep and they have to stand up for days that reminds me of something. >> right, unfortunately this is all too consistent with what we have heard along the border for some time, thanks to reporters like julia ainsley. by the way, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. >> you have acts of course, mika, that have been caught having facebook pages mocking and ridiculing those they're taking care of. making -- actually printing coins. mocking and ridiculing these children who are being abused.
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and karine, i remember back 2005, 2006, when stories broke about how the united states and our allies were treating terrorists -- suspected terrorists that we captured and you'd read stories about how they'd make them stand up sleeping. they would keep lights on 24 hours a day to disorient them. have them live in squalid conditions. crowded conditions. to break them mentally so they would sit down and start talking to our interrogators. we are now doing that to 5, 6, 7-year-old children, 10-year-old children who let me say again for the ignorant, for the ignorant, are coming here -- many of them with their parents legally to seek refugee status. that is not illegal. that is a legal action and for taking that legal action,
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karine, again, it sounds like a lot they're suspected terrorists being interrogated at gitmo. >> that's right, joe. we are torturing the 5 or 6-year-olds, these babies and just one other story. one more story of the inhumane kind of nature and treatment by this administration. you know what this reminds me of too, just listening to you talking, joe, it reminds me of oscar and his 23-month-old young daughter who we saw facedown in the water. the rio -- crossing the rio grande because they the story is they were denied -- they were trying to seek asylum and were denied at the border and they took extreme circumstances to try to get here for a better life. and this is how we're treating people. kids, children, and so here's the thing, joe. i think that democrats should not be doing deals with donald trump and this administration. they should be using this. they should be trying to figure out how do they fix this, how do they stop this? we can't keep seeing this type
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of torturous type of behavior and treatment and also just more deaths. so they need to stand up because republicans in congress are just not going to do it. >> well, i agree with you. i know that we may differ on many issues, karine, but i agree with you. you don't make a deal. you do not make a deal with donald trump. unless you ensure that in that deal there are the mechanisms needed to protect the children, to protect the toddlers. to protect the teenagers. to protect the young people at the border who again are facing some of the same conditions according to julia's interview and to other things we have heard, mika, from the border that again are interrogators were doing to suspected terror suspects. and listen, i say this again -- i have to say this because donald trump lies so often that i know a lot of people get confused because he lies
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repeatedly and republicans that are trumpists lie about this. but when you come to the united states of america and you're seeking asylum, that is -- that is a legal action. you are protected under american laws and you are not to be treated this way. even though i am -- i am for tough border enforcement, this is inhumane. this is obscene and this is not what america is about. you don't believe me, go listen to ronald reagan's farewell address to america, republicans. do it today. listen to ronald reagan's farewell address to america. >> we need more transparency. we need to see what's happening there. the whole thing is backwards. up next, we're just moments away from learning who will be
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the united kingdom's next prime minister. that's next on "morning joe." plus, president trump yesterday said he could win the war in afghanistan in just ten days. but doesn't want to quote, kill 10 million people and wipe the country, quote, off the face of the earth. we'll have that sobering piece of sound from the president ahead on "morning joe." don't miss your golden opportunity
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we're like policeman. we're not fighting a war. we wanted to fight a war in afghanistan and win it, i could win that war in a week. i just don't want to kill 10 million people. does that make sense to you? i don't want to kill 10 million people. i have plans on afghanistan that if i wanted to win that war, afghanistan would be wiped off the face of the earth. it would be gone. it would be over in literally ten days and i don't want to
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do -- i don't want to go that route nor do we want to be policeman because basically we're policeman right now. we're not supposed to be policeman. we have been there for 19 years in afghanistan. it's ridiculous. and i think pakistan helps us with that. because we don't want to stay as policeman. but if we wanted to, we could win that war. i have a plan that would win that war in a very short period of time. we have been in there not fighting to win. just fighting to -- they're building gas stations. they're rebuilding schools. the united states -- we shouldn't be doing that. that's for them to do but what we did and what our leadership got us into is ridiculous. >> that's the united states president yesterday sitting alongside pakistan's prime minister in the oval office where gene robinson he talked about having a plan to kill 10 million afghans. >> yeah. >> in a week. donald trump's own words. i have a plan to kill 10 million afghanistans in a week. just like he threatened nuclear
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annihilation of north korea which of course would start world war iii and thermonuclear war with china and most likely russia. just like he's talked about launching thermonuclear attacks on iran and you saw where we warned that donald trump spoke to a top foreign policy thinker in america three separate times he asked why he couldn't use nuclear weapons and two of the three times he said why can't we just use nukes against north korea and why can't we just use nukes against iran? and his logic was we have the nuclear arsenal. why don't we use it? >> yeah. well, you know, it's staggering ignorance. it's impulsiveness, it's ego. it's -- his tendency always to bluster and these are such
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dangerous words. these are such shocking words. it's -- you know, it's hard to describe. and you know, these days in washington that passes for monday, right? i mean, that's another day in the presidency of donald trump and when we just hear and see things that we should never hear and see from the leader of the free world talking about thermonuclear armageddon in afghanistan. it's just -- it's unreal, but it is real. it's crazy. >> unfortunately. all right, gene, thank you so much. we always appreciate you being with us. and you can of course read all of gene's pulitzer prize winning columns in "the washington post." "washington post".com, go there today. the united kingdom's karen pierce is with us, and senior international correspondent keir simmons.
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madam ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> i guess the world awaits to see what's going to happen next which is a nice way of asking is boris johnson really going to be the next prime minister? >> the good thing for britain, whoever wins they will have been foreign secretary so they care about britain's position on the world stage. they understand the importance of alliances. i have been lucky enough to work with both candidates. i think very highly of them. we're looking forward to working with the next prime minister. >> and keir, what should we expect if as expected boris johnson is the next prime minister, what should we expect when it comes to britain's foreign policy? >> yeah, let me just say that's why they pay the ambassador the big bucks, to be able to -- to get through a question like that as we await to hear who is the next prime minister, who will be
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the ambassador's new boss. you know, what can we expect? well, you know, whoever is prime minister we know that the two big issues they'll be walking straight into are brexit with that deadline coming up fast. and iran. i mean, look, in many ways britain -- you can compare britain to iran. you know, we have a weak hand, we are caught between europe and america and potentially we can emerge from this stronger, but at the same time, could face a real disaster. so, you know, it's such uncertain times. in defense of boris johnson, you know, i think it's incredibly hard to predict the future. and i don't think we know how he will have handle this, but the point that boris johnson makes you have to go into negotiations with a tough stance. and in the last few weeks you have seen the europeans get a
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little nervous, i think. you have seen the irish, the dutch, the belgians, all of whom who would face challenges if there was a hard brexit. they appear to be potentially kind of shifting a little bit so we'll see. >> so ambassador, you have worked for both men. the consensus -- the huge consensus is that boris johnson at any moment will be named the next prime minister. but you have worked with jeremy hunt. what differences if any would be -- would there be in their approach to brexit, to the larger world outside of great britain? >> they have a slightly different approach on brexit in that mr. johnson has been clear we're leaving on the 31th of october, deal or no deal and mr. hunt said he'd prefer an extension if there's no deal. so as keir was saying, the important thing what can you get through the house of commons? and where does the consensus lie in the british body politic say
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that we get the best possible outcome out of brexit. and i think both men shared that desire to find the right way forward, that most people can buy into and that sees us leave the european union with a good deal, one that does credit to britain, but also one that keeps our friends in the european union. >> madam ambassador, i think one can argue this more than a slight difference between the two on brexit, as you said. boris johnson wants to be out october 31, a very hard brexit. very unwelcome brexit. now as i understand it, enough members of parliament have passed a resolution or -- that would essentially prevent him from doing that so it seems like we could be back to the same situation with theresa may. let's have a hard brexit, let's not leave at all, and let's have a soft brexit and you can go
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around the merry go round. is that not a likely scenario here? >> i think everybody knows as you just said, there isn't at the moment a majority in parliament for one particular outcome. and this is what has made the last few months so difficult in terms of politics. but you get a new prime minister who will want to unite the party, he'll want to unite the country. i think that will have a different dynamic. in what direction i can't say at the moment but it's a new set of circumstances and people will want to run into something that's successful. >> so keir, let me ask you to make things a little easier to understand for our viewers here in america. why has it been so difficult to come to a resolution in parliament after the brexit vote? mika and i several years ago when we went over to london for a few weeks in the summer were
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talking about the problems america was having at adjusting to donald trump and to a person we were told, well, your problem is with one person. our problem is with an entire system. >> yeah. >> why is that? why has it been so difficult to come to consensus first after a single vote which we find bizarre in america that a single vote could paralyze a country for years. secondly, does boris johnson make it more likely that britain can finally move forward from this one way or the other? >> well, you know, i think the reason for the indecision and the challenge really goes back to the general election that the prime minister theresa may called and the fact that she ended up with a very slim majority. that made it incredibly difficult for her to push her version of brexit through the house of commons. that really is where britain has faced the kind of political
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paralysis. of course, the question now is what happens next? as you say, ultimately there has to be a resolution. my prediction has always been that as is so often the case in europe, you have to reach a crisis point. you have to reach the midnight hour and then, you know, the deal is done. and i do think that we need to not lose sight of the impact that a no deal brexit as they call it, a ripping apart of the uk from europe, the impact that will have economically not only on britain, but europe, and particular countries in europe. so we need common sense really on both sides. i think there is some hope about it. boris johnson for example, people forget the strengths. for example, he speaks fluent french so he'll be able to pick up the phone to president macron and they don't have to switch to
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english. perhaps there's also a new european commissioner, the former german defense minister who speaks fluent english. so, you know, perhaps there are some signs that the new people might actually be able to do some things that the old folks couldn't do. >> i think that's right. as a matter of principle you have new people and it's an opportunity to look afresh at what's available and what's achievable. we're moments away from a new prime minister so i think that new prime minister will set out how they want to approach -- >> there it is. >> you're right. and there we go congratulations to mr. -- >> yeah. boris johnson has just been elected the next british prime minister as you heard before. boris johnson was born in new york city to wealthy british parents. he was educated at eton and oxford. began his journalism career at
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"the times" he worked at "the daily telegraph." he became a member of parliament. the mayor of london and now he is great britain's prime minister. let's listen. >> fantastic, fantastic. we're an organized campaign, i think a lot of credit as -- to our party, to our values. our ideals. but i want to begin by thanking my opponent, jeremy. absolutely formidable campaigner and a great leader and a great politician. jeremy, in the course of 20 -- i mean, 20 hastings style event, it was more than 3,000 miles about 7,000 miles that we did crisscrossing the country. you have been friendly. you have been good natured. you have been a fount of excellent ideas all of which i propose to steal forthwith. and above all i want to thank our outgoing leader, theresa
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may, for her extraordinary service to this party and to this country. it was a privilege -- [ applause ] it was a privilege to serve in her cabinet and to see the passion and the determination that she brought to the many causes that are her legacy. from equal pay for men and women, to tackling the problems of mental health and racial discrimination in the criminal justice system. thank you, and i want to thank you all of you here today and obviously everybody in the conservative party for your hard work, for your campaigning and for your public spirit and obviously for the extraordinary honor and privilege that you have just conferred on me. and i know that there will be people around the place who will
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question the wisdom of your decision. and there may be some people here who may wonder quite what they have done. i would just point out, because nobody -- no one party, no one person has a monopoly on wisdom. but if you look at the history of the last 200 years of this party's existence, you will see that it is we conservatives who have had the best insights, i think, into human nature. and in the best -- the best instincts into how to manage the jostling sets of instincts in the human heart. and time and again, it is to us that the people of this country have turned to get that balance right. between the instincts to own your own house, your own home, to earn and spend your own money. to look after your own family. good instincts, proper instincts. noble instincts. and the equally noble instinct
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to share and to give everyone a fair chance in life. and to look after the poorest and the neediest and to build a great society. and on the whole in the last 200 years it is we conservatives who have understood best how to encourage those instincts to work together in harmony to promote the good of the whole country. and today, at this pivotal moment in our history, we again have to reconcile two sets of instincts. two noble sets of instincts. between the deep desire for friendship and free trade and mutual support and security and defense between britain and our european partners and the simultaneous desire equally deep and heart felt for democratic self-government in this country. and of course as some people say they're irreconcilable.
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and they just can't be done. and indeed i read in my financial times this morning -- devoted reader i am -- seriously, it's a great british -- and there's no incoming leader who has ever faced such a daunting set of circumstances it said. i look at you this morning and i ask myself do you look daunted? do you feel daunted? i don't think you look remotely daunted to me. and i think that we know that we can do it. and that the people of this country are trusting in us to do it and we know that we will do it. and we know the mantra of the campaign that has just gone by. in case you have forgotten it, you probably have because it was -- it is deliver brexit, unite the country and defeat jeremy corbyn and that is what we're going to do. we're going to defeat jeremy
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corbyn. [ applause ] and i know -- >> that is boris johnson, who has been elected the next british prime minister. he is talking right now to the conservatives who elected him. he said with a flourish that his priorities were to deliver brexit, unite the country and defeat jeremy corbyn. he began by thanking his opponent and thanking theresa may, the former british prime minister, who occasionally sometimes actually at conservative gatherings would make boris johnson the butt of her jokes and says much about what many people thought about boris johnson. often a punch line in many
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british jokes regarding government. but the prime minister johnson talked about the delicate balance that he and britain would be striking moving forward, trying to balance their desire for friendship, trade, defense and alliances with the desire for democratic self-governance. ambassador pierce, it's interesting, i just -- just listening to the speech i'm reminded that i have heard boris johnson's voice in my ear many times when i was listening to the churchill factor which is a book he wrote on churchill. very entertaining and insightful book on what made churchill churchill and it reminded me much as it did the reciting of his educational career that any comparisons between donald trump
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and boris johnson stop when it comes to educational background and his force of -- his intelligence. >> well, you know, congratulations to mr. johnson. commiserations to mr. hunt. as boris johnson said the task now is to unite the country. what's happened is that mr. johnson has been elected leader of the conservative party. theresa may has to go to the palace to see the queen. if you like to stand down this prime minister and then the queen invites mr. johnson to go to the palace and invites him to put a government together and that's the point at which he becomes prime minister. so for the moment, he's the leader of the conservative party which is why you have that allusion to party politics, to the labour party and mr. corbyn. we set out the task, we have to unite the country and that's the
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most important thing. >> ambassador, from this distance here in the united states a lot of americans i think and steve might hear me out here, there's the fear that the cut with brexit that boris johnson wants to involve himself with and involve great britain with could be a catastrophe. we don't know what's going to happen economically, but there's one element of it that does concern a lot of people here in the east coast of the united states of a particular heritage and that's the border in the north of ireland. what happens under boris johnson's proposals to that border? >> well, it's a very important issue for us as well. i know that the history with america and the interest america has always been generous enough to show in northern ireland there have been rocky moments of that, of course, when noraid was around, but america has been supportive of the good agreement. obviously any government wants
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that good friday agreement to hold and that means not having a hard border but we have to see exactly how that works in the brexit context. i think the new prime minister will want to have some very deep discussions internally and then with european partners and of course with our irish partners to work out what is the best way to both deliver brexit and preserve the peace deal in northern ireland. those are difficult things but they're not impossible. >> but in the last case scenario if there's a no deal brexit in october there would be a hard border re-established between the north and the south? >> it would be up to the northern ireland and southern ireland to negotiate the arrangements. it's not automatic there needs to be a hard border. there are technological ways of having a border. there are various other ways of if you like calculating what the necessary trade and tariffs would be if the trading border
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when northern ireland joins ireland. there are some solutions. none of them are straight forward. i'll give you that. but i think people will now want to study them in great detail to find out how you can preserve that peace agreement, not have a hard border but still make brexit a reality. >> all right. ambassador karen pierce, thank you very much for joining us this morning and covering this breaking news. now to tomorrow's testimony by former special counsel robert mueller before the house judiciary and intelligence committees. let's bring in a member of the judiciary committee, democratic congressman david cicilline of rhode island. and congressman, what are the questions that you hope will be asked, that you plan to put to the table that will help american voters, the american people better understand what
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happened? and is it potentially your point of view that this could be a difficult road in terms of what those questions might be and what exactly the answers are that you could get? >> well, i think it's important that mr. mueller make it clear to the american people that he did not exonerate the president from the offenses of obstruction of justice, that obstruction of justice is a serious charge that really strike at the core of our judicial system and then he walked the american people through the actual evidence that the president directed the white house counsel to fire the special counsel, then he directed him to lie about it and even generated a fake document or a report to memorialize that lie. that he instructed a third party, corey lewandowski, to go tell the attorney general to tell the special counsel to limit his investigation to future presidential elections and not look at the 2016. so those are two examples of obstruction of justice. i think during the hearing you will hear mr. mueller walk the american people through the
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report. we should be asking him questions to bring that report to life so that the american people can understand and see the very serious misconduct of the president. this will be the first time that most of the american people will have an opportunity to really hear about the conclusions of the report, the evidence that mr. mueller collected and the serious wrongdoing of the president. so i think you will see a sober hearing, where people understand the gravity of the moment but where the facts of what the report concluded and found during the course of the investigation are fully revealed to the american people. >> yeah. >> thanks, mika. this is karine, congressman, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> my question to you so on sunday, we saw your chair nadler mention high crimes and misdemeanors as it relates to donald trump's behavior and, you know, with what he's done in this administration. but also you guys clearly are going to have mueller tomorrow.
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does this get us closer to impeachment inquiries? what does this mean? what will be the outcome after tomorrow? >> well, i think it will certainly change some of my colleagues' minds on this question of whether or not the time has come to open a formal impeachment inquiry. i have said that several months ago. there's more than sufficient evidence in the mueller report to warrant the formal beginning of a process to consider whether or not the president committed high crimes and misdemeanors and whether articles of impeachment should be filed. i think it would depend on the response of the american people to this. i mean, i have been saying, look, i think we have a duty to move forward with it -- an inquiry. we took an oath of office. we are the only bran thatch can hold this president accountable and mr. mueller makes that point at the concluding paragraphs in this report and i think this is a going to be a sobering moment. i think the evidence is overwhelming and i think when the american people fully understand it, it will increase the calls for the beginning of a
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formal impeachment process. >> you know, keir, a portion of both hearings tomorrow, the judiciary committee and the intelligence committee, apparently, clearly the republicans intend to go at the roots of the russia investigation. >> yeah. >> was the fbi complicit in hooking things up and i would expect that bob mueller will really push back on that. but the roots of the russian investigation, what's your sense of what ought to be asked or what you think they'll go for? >> well, my takeaway from the mueller inquiry report was obviously one as a foreign correspondent and what i was struck by was the lack of information on the russian side. that's not surprising because it was very difficult to get any russians to actually give any evidence. and we had that very -- that fascinating insight that president putin meets with something like 50 oligarchs on a
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regular basis to give them directions and i thought that was really interesting but at the same time, i felt aside from the redacted elements of the report there were lots of black holes if you like. which was certainly there because you only had half the story. in a sense. congressman, i want to ask you about bob mueller's testimony tomorrow. isn't there a danger for the democrats? i mean, there's no evidence that mr. mueller wants to side politically with the democrats if you like. because he wants to walk a line. isn't there a danger for the democrats that tomorrow ends up handing president trump another political win as mr. mueller walks that line and doesn't deliver the kind of, you know, damning indictment that the democrats are hoping for? >> i don't actually think there is. i think the four corners of the report contain explosive and damning evidence of the misconduct of this president. i think everyone expects mr. mueller to limit his testimony
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to the contends of the report. but the report is in and of itself providing substantial evidence of presidential wrongdoing. so again i think you'll see the democrats walk the special counsel through the contents of his report and really bring those contents to life for the american people. you'll see the republicans attack the origins of the report. the character of the fbi, maybe even the character of mr. mueller. i think that's what you'll see from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle but i think so long as people watch this hearing with an open mind you will hear mr. mueller go through the findings of his report and they're really compelling and very disturbing conclusions about the conduct of the president that i think any fair minded person would conclude warrant a formal impeachment inquiry. >> congressman david cicilline, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe" two democrats who made recent trips to the border, senator
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dick durbin and senator lauren underwood will join us. the big question for them -- should the democrats be negotiating with an administration whose policies they find so abhorrent? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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former editor "time" magazine nancy gibson has the best candidate against trump will harness hope and fear and she writes in part this. for president trump like any incumbent it's harder to run on fear after you have had four years to make america great again, bragged our your economy, claim that the north korea threat is neutralized and swamp is drained. but appeals to fear comes so naturally to him that he finds
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himself attacking duly elected congresswomen and much of the infrastructure whose actual mission is keeping us safe. he does however have a rancid genius for stoking fear and then responding to it. so democrats heading back to the debate stage have a calculation to make. do people want a fighter for a uniter? the fighter deploys fear of the enemy. the uniter speaks to hope for us all. and trump's presidency has taught many of us things about our country that we'd rather not know, that knowledge itself is fright i think in. perhaps the candidate who can best harness both is the one we need to lead us out of here. let's bring in the chairman of priorities u.s. guy cecil and kasie, i'm thinking of the next debate and the candidates and the topics that they debated and
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some of the points of view they put out there. and for the democrats, i'm very concerned that they don't fully understand the place they need to fill for americans to elect a democrat back to the presidency and not give it back again to donald trump. >> i think that, you know, nancy gibbs identified the line that many democrats need to walk here as they try to, you know, give the country an answer to that very question. and, you know, some of them elizabeth warren i would say has taken fighter on as her mantel about the overall message she is trying to bring home every single appearance. one that's clearly been resonating lately with voters. seems like joe biden has taken a little bit of another view of how to present himself. he has cast himself more as able to unite people to return us to
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normal. although in his interview with you, he did suggest that he wanted to try and pick some of these fights with donald trump. my sense is, you know, if you're going after donald trump's core strengths it's really to try to make him look weak. that seems to be when he's most on the defensive. when he is most open to criticism, to have these candidates essentially argue he hasn't done the things he said that he was going to do for you. he's failed on big questions that you really care about. like health care, for example. and, you know, guy cecil, i'm curious, i know you at priorities usa are launching a massive campaign here, you have done a lot of looking at what it will take for democrats to win especially in the -- under the electoral college system that's going to do the choosing for us. what are you seeing as you kind of launch and get under way there that you think that your candidates should know if, you know, which i assume is the ultimate goal, you want to beat donald trump. >> yes. look, i think there is a big
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difference between fighting for what you believe in, fighting for the american people and engaging in, you know, as nancy said rancid behavior, stoking fear and division. the key to understanding donald trump is donald trump cares about one thing -- donald trump. and by that measure he has been a success but by every other measure he has been a failure. the situation at the border is worse. donald trump has failed. the situation with north korea has not made any demonstrable progress. he has failed. when it comes to health care he's failed. when it comes to rising wages he has failed. so i think by every demonstrable measure, you are right that our job is yes to take it to donald trump to draw a contrast. this election will be both a referendum on donald trump and a choice between him and the person on the ballot that's representing the democratic party. but that's not sufficient. that in order to be successful in this election we have to do more than just be the
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anti-donald trump. we have to explain to the american people what we are for. and i don't think these two things are mutually exclusive. i want to see the democrats focus more on the economy, on health care, on wages and education than some of the topics that get most of the attention today. >> kasie, you have covered all these candidates, you have spoken to i think nearly all of the candidates. off of what guy was just saying, do you think in the field there is one or two or maybe half dozen of these candidates who in addition to speaking about those critical issues like household income which they very rarely address to speak about the fact that what donald trump is doing right now injecting race and division consciously into this campaign as a strategy is not a passing phase and to address it head on, that this perhaps might be the most important issue because of what it's doing and
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threatens to do to our country? >> i do think that there is a recognition of that on the part of many of these candidates, mike. you know, i think that it's something that we certainly saw in 2016 but that, you know, maybe wasn't always at the forefront because of all of the assumptions that were held about whether or not it was going to work. we got on to the other side of that and i think there was a lot of reflection as to, you know, exactly how that worked in 2016 and frankly it's gotten more overt in the years since. and, you know, this is a real question. i think you'll see some real divisions in the field on how they decide to handle this. i mean, kamala harris i think is one to watch here. you know, she -- you know, she came out after the president made this latest set of remarks about the squad. she talked very emotionally. you can hear it in her voice and sense in its the way she comes across about her mother telling her don't let anybody tell you
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what you are. you know, you tell them who you are. you know, she of course has personal experience to bring to bear on this. but, you know, i do think -- you know, guy can probably speak to this as well. a lot of the conversations take place so off the radar. people are almost afraid to talk about it. you know, there's this sense that among some anyway there's a risk in nominating a person of color because we know or -- especially a woman of color, because we know how the president is going to approach that. and so joe biden of course as an older, you know, kind of white male, statesman, who kind of represents this return to normalcy is another way of attempting to fight back against the way the president presents this. guy, do you think that matters in this calculation? do you think that the -- basically what these candidates look like, does it matter in running against trump or do you think any of these, you know, we have seen the top of the field,
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top five or six candidates do you think any of them could beat trump? >> i don't think there's any question that a woman or a person of color can beat trump. i think it has a lot more to do with the type of campaign you run, the type of person you are. >> and the issues. >> i want to push back on the one -- on to one thing. donald trump's racism is not becoming more overt. donald trump build his business on overt racism. he was investigated by the justice department for marking the housing applications of african-americans with the letter "c" for the word colored. that on his casino floor he would routinely kick off african-americans when a particular player would come on the floor and didn't like the sight of african-americans on the floor. he ran an entire campaign on stoking fear and racism and division and i don't believe the solution to that is simply to limit our choice for president of the united states to white men. by the way, there have been a lot of white male democrats that have lost presidential elections
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too. i think it's more important that we just elect somebody that's stable. and competent and can run a good campaign. >> look, yeah, but winning is going to be -- whether it's a man or a woman, or african-american, i think it's the issues too, guy. >> i agree. >> in terms of fighting nancy's piece you have to fight in terms of revealing and appealing. you have to reveal trump for who he is. that will take a fight. you have to appeal to all voters including trump voters. you have to appeal to voters across the board. you're not going to do that with medicare for all, but with need a democratic candidate who will reach across the board and give a real alternative to this guy. >> yeah. i agree. i don't think there's any question that democrats and -- you know, this is something that the priorities have been saying repeatedly and frankly been saying for almost three years now. we should be focused on wages,
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health care, jobs, building economic opportunity and i would just point out that that's not just about white working class or trump voters. "the new york times" did a report that actually that said the african-american democrats were interested on those related to the economy and we're releasing a poll with latino decision among the top two issues is health care. so this is not just about reaching across the aisle. this is about how we mobilize our own base democrats. i think the fundamental recognition that the reason we are not turning out democrats the way we should is because we are not talking about issues that are relevant to their everyday lives. this is about appealing to persuadable voters and to democratic base voters who have been sitting on the sidelines for the past four years. >> chairman of priorities usa, guy cecil, thank you very much.
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coming up earlier we showed you the 17-year-old boy's account of the harsh conditions inside a border patrol station inside arizona. next we'll talk to representative lauren underwood about what she saw during her visit to the border last week. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morngni joe" is back in a moment ♪ limu emu & doug look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need.
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politico reports that three to 6,000 migrants with mental illnesses are estimated to be detained at detention centers in states across the southern border causing a mental health crisis. immigration and customs enforcement officials have struggled to handle it. according to the inspector general, treatment of migrants with mental illnesses includi including -- include placing them in solitary confinement while others report having to wait months to see a doctor. politico also reports that many are not stable enough to participate in their own legal proceedings so they languish in detention. only 21 of 230 detention centers report offering in person mental health service according to the 2016 report. i.c.e. did not respond to
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politico's request for comment about mental health at the centers. joining us now, vice chair of the house homeland security committee, democratic congressman lauren underwood of illinois. last friday she and group of lawmakers visited where the migrants are being held in rio grande valley, texas. so this is one of many issues that i'm just assuming -- first of all, the biggest issue would be transparency. what were able to see and what were you able to garner from what is happening inside these facilities? >> good morning, mika. you know, this is my second visit down to the border so we did see some areas of improvement. the mats being offered to children so they were not sleeping on the hard, concrete floors and there were medical providers, however, the medical screenings were done inconsistency. there were certainly -- there were inconsistent resources being made available.
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we continue to hear reports from migrants that they're being denied toothbrushes. being denied access to routine showers. and bathing ability. so there's certainly opportunity for improvement and this humanitarian crisis is continuing. >> yeah. so it sounds like you were able to get inside. were you able to see with your own eyes what is happening with as many people as possible inside these facilities? >> oh, absolutely. we were in mcallen, texas, i toured the detention center, we went to the donna holding facility, the soft shell facilities, almost like a tent city that was construct and opened this spring, using the reprogrammed department of defense dollars. we went to the port of entry in mcallen, texas, then we went to a health and human services facility for the unaccompanied children. >> karine? >> hi there, congresswoman.
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how were the children being taken care of? they were given mats but as a nurse, as a health professional, what did you see there about how they were taken care of that had concerns for you? >> you know, when you walk into the facilities it's certainly a multisensory experience. so there's an odor of human body odor because they're not able to bathe. you hear the children crying out. looking in their eyes and you're seeing a look of despair. it's heart breaking. when i took a look at the medical screenings because that's been my focus as a nurse, making sure that every child, every individual is getting a thorough screen. what we saw is that was inconsistently happening. so i introduced a bill several weeks ago, the u.s. border patrol medical screening act to ensure that there are consistent standards. so that no individual arriving in to federal custody is not having an opportunity to get access to needed medicare care
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and then putting others at risk including our hard working border patrol agents as a result of having communicable diseases. we have seen over the last year seven children die. i think about children like jacqueline and felipe, wilmer vasquez died of parasites that would have been treatable. but he wasn't given access to medical care in a timely fashion. we can't continue to have the toddlers die in custody and this is a good first step to solving the problem. >> so fairly recently, congress gave the administration a fair amount of money to address these issues. not without obviously a lot of controversy. congress is about to leave for the summer. so there's not going to be any more legislation for weeks and weeks if not months so what can you do -- what can others who care about this the way you do do to get the administration to continue to make the kinds of improvements you identified in the absence of any ability for
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congress to really do anything else at this point? >> well, this week, we expect my bill, the u.s. border patrol screening act to come to the floor to the bill, and escobar has a bill for standards at large, regarding immigration policy and the handling of these migrant individuals. dr. ruiz has a bill about medical treatment across the border whether you're at customs and border patrol, whether you're at i.c.e., making sure that there are consistent standards being applied. we saw that the democratic caucus was united in an effort to make sure that we had robust standards in place. as the administration spends these supplemental border dollars and this is our opportunity before heading out on this district work period over the rest of the summer to make sure that they are in place. recognizing that there's extreme heat, that individuals are continuing to approach ports of
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entry and individuals are continuing to be interdicted in between those ports. and it remains a significant humanitarian concern and one that i know is top of mind for families all across our country. >> congresswoman, let's stipulate that the conditions that you witnessed are horrendous and that they are probably not as good as the conditions that you'd get out at the super max federal prison in colorado. you'd be treated better there. >> absolutely. >> you're about to go on a congressional break, five or six weeks, you'll be home and talking to constituents. what is your response when i would guarantee this is going to happen because it's out of the donald trump playbook a woman comes up to you and says i saw you on tv talking about the horrendous conditions on the border. the lack of medical assistance on the border for these human beings. my husband has done five tours in afghanistan in iraq. he has to wait for hours at the v.a. to get treated. he has to drive for hours to get
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to the v.a. to get treated. how about my husband first? what's your response? what do you say? >> i say absolutely, ma'am. we thank your husband for his tremendous and brave service to our country. i serve on the house veterans affairs committee and the very first bill that i passed in congress was a suicide prevention bill because we near the middle of a -- we're in the middle of a crisis. and so we have been spending millions of dollars over the last several years that have not seen even a budge in the statistics so our bill looks at the agreements to make sure that those outside entities are being held to the same robust standards as the v.a. to make sure that every veteran is getting access to the mental health and suicide prevention services they may need. by more importantly, to your broader point, there is an opportunity to address the health care needs for the american people. i have a bill in the health care affordability bill, 1868 which
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would make premiums more affordable all across the country. we know that health care remains out of reach and too costly for the american people. whether it's premiums, prescription drug prices so the house democrats are so focused on the for the people agenda which lists health care as you were in one. i hear this concern that you speak of. that says what about the american people and what i say is we have to move forward in a way that's consistent with our values. so we say that everyone should have high quality affordable health care as much as, then, yes, the american people should be able to afford the premiums and the drugs and the migrants should recognize that they should have access to their medications they may cross the border with. they're sick, they should be able to seen timely by a physician assistant, a nurse practitioner or an emt. they should not be spreading communicable diseases in federal facilities. it's not an either/or.
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families across northern illinois in my district they understand that. >> congresswoman, kasie hunt, great to see you. i'm curious what your take has been on what we have seen unfold with the president over the course of the past week and a half. his continuing attacks on your colleagues and where the democratic caucus stand. i mean, you obviously joined them in 2018 as a woman of color, but as somebody who defeated a republican and is going to face voters again in a swing district, how do you think this is going to play out going forward and do you think those divisions are still is there in your caucus? >> well, i don't really know what visions you speak of, kasie, because i have to tell you we were -- i think the american people have been horrified at these comments, these insults, the racist rhetoric coming out of our president and i am really disappointed that he's continued to spread this sentiment during a time when we have such significant policy issues to
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address before our country. so, you know, i think our caucus is really united and moving forward really aggressively on our agenda which includes lowering health care costs. last week we passed a minimum wage increase that's so helpful for so many american families. you know, we continue to do this work and we'll not be distracted. we will not be scared and certainly the women, young women, progressive women, those that are so boldly speaking out we're not going anywhere. >> all right. congresswoman lauren underwood thank you very much for that. i appreciate it. still to come a big issue facing major league baseball. the chicago white sox are the first team in the majors to extend protective netting from foul pole to foul pole. why new safety concerns are fuelling calls for the rest of the league to follow suit. "morning joe" will be right back. is just a button.
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there are new calls for increased protection at major league ballparks after another child was hit by a foul ball in the stands. this time a 3-year-old sent to the hospital after being struck by a line drive in cleveland. nbc news correspondent ron mott has the details. >> oh! look out, folk. >> reporter: the hits are coming a and so do the injuries. >> a frightful moment. >> reporter: baseball fans in the line of fire in foul balls. >> frankie's having a tough time. >> reporter: the latest example sunday when francisco lindor of the cleveland indians hit a line drive that struck a 3-year-old boy sending him to the hospital. he said he was told that the boy was in stable condition. >> it sucks. i encourage every mlb team to put the nets all the way down. >> reporter: the white sox are doing that, extending netting all the way down the line from foul pole to foul pole and the
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washington nationals are doing the same. baseball commissioner rob manfred are working on the upgrades. last month a woman was left bloodied and a 2-year-old girl was hit in the head and fracturing the skull. last season a 79-year-old woman died from head injuries after being hit at dodger stadium. >> you want to have the interaction with the fans and giving autographs and stuff, but at the end of the day, we want to make sure everybody comes out of the game healthy. >> reporter: to ensure that a day at the ballpark doesn't end with a trip to the hospital. >> all right. mike barnicle, what do you think? i mean, it's already there at fenway. they have the nets. >> yeah, most teams, mika, are in the process if they haven't already done it, extending the netting down to the dugouts on both sides but they clearly have to be extended all the way down the right field line, down to the left field line, to the foul poles. at minimum. at a minimum. just for safety's sake.
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>> exactly. still ahead, the white house and congressional leaders strike a two-year budget deal but what does it say about washington's tolerance for the growing u.s. deficit? senator dick durbin will join the conversation to weigh in on that. plus, president trump said last week that he wouldn't watch any of robert mueller's congressional testimony. now he says he might watch a little. we'll have a preview of what to expect when mueller appears on capitol hill. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. be right ba. government by and for all the people -
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there was no hesitation, i went straight to ctca. after my mastectomy, it was maddening because i felt part of my identity was being taken away. when you're able to restore what cancer's taken away, you see that transformation firsthand knowing that she had options that she could choose, helped restore hope. my team made me feel like a whole person again. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. several months ago a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise donald trump and three times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. three times he asked at one point if we have them, why can't we use them?
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>> trump asked three times -- >> three times in an hour briefing why can't we use nuclear weapons? >> north korea best not make any more threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> any attack by iran on anything american will be met with great and overwhelming force. in some areas, overwhelming will mean obliteration. >> if i wanted to win that war, afghanistan would be wiped off the face of the earth. it would be gone. it would be over in literally in ten days. >> brief history of president trump threatening nuclear war. we will get to the president's comments about decimating afghanistan in just a moment. plus, remember money party, joe? >> i love money party. >> it seems like the one thing that gets bipartisan support is just to keep on spending.
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both parties back a bill to borrow now and pay later. they're having a money party. plus, a big day for great britain. the uk picks a new prime minister but what does it mean for brexit? and mr. mueller at the microphone. the former special counsel testifies tomorrow and the president is bracing for it. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, july 23rd. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. senior adviser at moveon.org, karine jean-pierre and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson joins us as well. good to have you on board this morning. the white house and congressional leaders have reached a deal to raise the country's debt limit and dramatically raise federal spending levels avoiding a
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potential showdown to avoid a government shutdown. the two-year agreement was announced yesterday following several days of intense negotiations led by house speaker nancy pelosi and treasury secretary steven mnuchin. it is expected to clear both the house and the senate before lawmakers leave for their august recess. though it is likely to face considerable pushback from conservatives and budget hawks, under the plan the debt limit will be suspended until july 31, 2021 and automatic spending cuts that would have kicked in without a deal will be halted. the pentagon's budget will be increased by $22 billion up to $738 billion next fiscal year. the plan will also boost nondefense spending by $27 billion to $632 billion. while president trump is touting the deal as a victory it will
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mean more red ink for an already ballooning deficit. before the deal, trump was already facing a $1 trillion deficit this year as a candidate in 2016, donald trump bragged he would pay off the entire federal debt in eight years but as of friday the national debt stands at more than $22 trillion. another broken promise or exaggerated promise, let's put it that way, joe. >> no, it's a broken promise. he said he'd pay off the debt, not only did he not pay off the debt, but the federal spending has increased at record clips. we are spending more than we ever had before as a federal government. centralized state is bringing in more money, spending out more money and printing more dollars that are worthless. what we have right now, we're over $22 trillion in debt. president trump promised he would pay off the debt. but in fact, his yearly deficits
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have exploded. defense spending has exploded. nondefense spending has exploded. and entitlement spending has exploded. this is big government republicanism like we have never seen before. and to have this sort of budget deal where everybody agrees to spend even more money when social security, medicare, medicaid is buckling under the weight of demographic changes is -- it's just one more extraordinarily reckless example of how republicans just don't mean anything that they said. >> it's really quite remarkable. you had this period after the great financial crisis when the deficit did hit $1 trillion for what i would argue were legitimate reasons, deep recession, and then it got --
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obama worked it down and down and down and with a lot of pressure, a lot of political pain. now you have a situation where both sides say to each other, what do you want? republicans want more medical spending and lower taxes and you can have that. democrats want more domestic spending and don't touch entitlements, fine. it's like a kid's birthday parties and the consequences as you said the deficit is headed back to $1 trillion. >> mike barnicle, the last few years of the obama administration discretionary, nondefense spending went down 3%. under donald trump it's shot up by 4%. again, these aren't entitlements. this isn't the the military. this is the rest of everything, this is government. even with the $22 trillion debt it's gone up. so donald trump has passed a massive tax cut that helps -- as he said to his buddies, made all of his billionaire buddies
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richer. helped multinational corporations. defense spending has exploded. domestic spending has exploded. everything has exploded. the deficit, $1 trillion, that is the highest, biggest deficit, yearly deficit of all time when we're in good economic times. and again, the national debt, the trump national debt over $22 trillion and breaking records every day. and let me just add, nobody cares. i have written three books about this. nobody in washington seems to care. >> well, joe, one of the most amazing things about the negotiations over this budget deal was that your former political party clearly has a high tolerance for deficits now that they never had before. it's just amazing. and they also must have, karine, a high tolerance for hypocrisy because as joe just pointed out during the obama administration, you know, if the you're at 25 cents over, you know, no, we
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can't do that program. because, you know, we're exploding the deficit. but now, no. >> now we're in a different -- totally different ball game here. let me say two things. the first thing is who knows what donald trump is going to actually do. we have seen time and time again he's not a reliable deal maker, right? he'll watch a segment on fox and change his mind so we don't know what -- will he ultimately land on this. but i have to say that democrats i don't understand their strategy here. and i'll say this because they got very little out of it to me. because they're giving donald trump a pass for the rest of his term on the debt ceiling. and, you know, two, for the new democratic -- >> but they got a pass on that too. >> they did but i get my point is they're leaving a ticking bomb for whoever comes in next to be the new democratic -- you know, president. i mean, this is not good. this is not good at all. so everyone just kind of sits back and, you know, and that's it. it just doesn't make sense.
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i do not see what democrats got out of this. >> everybody, mika, everybody just spins, spins, spins and everybody walks away happy. and, you know, just for those who are cynical and say that's what they always do, it's not what they always do. when i got elected to the u.s. house i said balancing the budget was going to be my top priority. it was a real concern at the time. everybody said it couldn't happen. we balanced the budget four years in a row. four years in a row. that's the first time that happened since the 1920s. about a hundred years ago. it can happen. but it takes tough choices being made every day. and for people sleeping at home going why does this matter, i'll tell you why this matters. because at some point your social security checks are going to stop coming in. at some point, your medicare checks are going to stop coming in. at some point, all of these politicians are telling you everything is going to be okay they're lying to you. and they're lying to you for
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different reasons. we can't continue to go. you know, put it in perspective, when i was in washington, i was complaining about a $4 trillion debt. when george w. bush got elected, it was a $5 trillion debt. when barack obama got elected it was an $11 trillion debt. donald trump got elected about $18 trillion. it will be a $30 trillion debt most likely before donald trump leaves office. guess what? we can't keep printing money. we will be argentina and your social security checks and medicare checks will stop coming. just ask the medicare trustees and the social security trustees. the numbers don't add up and donald trump is lying to the american people saying he'd pay down the debt. just like he said he'd give them better health care, like he said he wasn't going to fight against pre-existing conditions. just like he said he was going to make people's deductibles lower and their -- i mean, everything the man has said
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during the campaign about health care, deficits, medicare, social security and protecting them all lies. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- attorney general william barr was all too willing to give his freewheeling take on the russia probe. the doj is giving bob mueller no such latitude. we'll preview the former special counsel's testimony now just 24 hours away. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him.
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attorney morning at 8:30 eastern, robert mueller will appear before the house judiciary and intelligence committees and the department of justice is telling mueller to
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keep his promise and stick to the report. the letter came from the associate deputy general who is -- who is in response to a request for guidance from mueller earlier this month. and implies that mueller cannot discuss his disagreements with attorney general william barr. quote, any testimony must remain within the boundaries of your public report because matters within the scope of your investigation were covered by executive privilege. including discussion about investigative steps or decisions made during your investigation, not otherwise described in the public version of your report. the letter adds, it is the department's long standing policy not to discuss the conduct of uncharged third parties. a spokesman for mueller jim hopkins said on monday that mueller will have a brief opening statement and will then
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offer the entire report of the special counsel investigation as his full statement. for the hearing record. he said that mueller intends to abide by the commitment he made in his own only public statement. any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. >> well, you know, mike barnicle, it's outrageous that robert mueller can't talk about the concerns that he might have with barr. especially when barr made misstatements about the nature of his report. they had conversations about those disagreements. and it really -- this entire situation is going to be fodder for constitutional lawyers and law -- constitutional law professors for years to come. because you have a president who it was suggested in the report could have been charged on ten separate occasions for
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obstruction of justice. but mueller said he couldn't do that because the justice department told him he couldn't do that. now the justice department is saying you can't talk about the president of the united states obstructing justice because we told you that you couldn't do -- couldn't charge him. again, it's circular logic and again, everything the justice department is doing now is to protect donald trump politically. it has nothing to do with what's the law or what's right. >> yeah, you know, joe, even with the justice department guidelines that were issued last night in response to bob mueller's request for guidelines i think a lot of democrats are going to be disappointed tomorrow in bob mueller's testimony and i think a lot of republicans on the judiciary committee when they begin to probe him on the roots of the russia investigation are going to get some real pushback from
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the former director of the fbi. he will stand up for the people who have worked for him, both in the bureau and during the investigation. and, you know, listen, let's face it. the bottom line is there are only three questions i think that most americans want the answers to. was there obstruction, was there collusion, and, you know, would donald trump have been indicted had he not been president of the united states? i mean, those are three pretty simple questions but i don't think he elle -- i don't think he'll get the answers to those tomorrow. sadly. >> let's bring in national political reporter for nbc news carol lee with new reporting on the lingering questions about the report that mueller is likely to face. specifically, why donald trump jr. was the only american attendee of the infamous trump tower meeting in july of 2016 not questioned by investigators. that is a really good question, carol. >> yeah. mika, it's one that is certainly chairman schiff of the
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intelligence committee talked about over the weekend as something that he seems likely to ask robert mueller about. the trump tower meeting was a key focus in terms of the collusion focus of the investigation. this was not some he said/he said, they were explicit emails from russians to donald trump jr. making an offer for information and an explicit acceptance of that offer, interest in the offer. then there was this meeting and one of the things that we don't know is why donald trump jr. wasn't interviewed by the -- as part of the investigation. robert mueller's report said he declined to be voluntarily interviewed and that word voluntarily suggests there was an ask. so sources we spoke to said there were two possible reasons that donald trump jr. was not interviewed. one, that investigators decided he wasn't important to the
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investigation. that seems according to them impossible to believe given that he arranged this meeting. the second possible reason would be that he decided to invoke his fifth amendment right. and donald trump's lawyer declined to comment on whether he did that, but as i said earlier chairman schiff said that, you know, he intends to dive in to evidence of the pieces of evidence that relate to the collusion portion of the investigation and he specifically mentioned this instance, this trump tower meeting. so we're likely to see this come up. however, you know whether robert mueller decides to add anything to what we don't know is a real open question and seems highly unlikely given everything you know as well as anybody. you know, he just doesn't want to go any further than what he's already said. >> all right. nbc's carol lee, thank you so much. we appreciate your reporting. >> thanks. coming up on "morning joe" it doesn't sound like my summer
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camp we heard of. disturbing new details about what's happening in the u.s. detention centers at the southern border. and nbc's julia ainsley joins us next on "morning joe." joins us next on "morning joe." when you buy a car from carvana, you're not stuck haggling
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we want to move to reporting now from nbc news. two weeks ago, julia ainsley and jacob soboroff broke the conditions at a border patrol station in yuma, arizona. they obtained more than two dozen significant incident reports written by government case workers based on what children had described to them being held there. the report included an allegation of sexual assault and retaliation against kids who asked for clean water and food. julia sat down in an exclusive interview with a guatemalan boy who was held at the yuma border facility for 11 days. 17-year-old abner describes in detail what he went through including being held in a cell that was so crowded he was forced to sleep standing up. not knowing what time of the day it was because the lights were always on. and not being able to properly drink water.
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and julia joins us now with more on her new reporting on those conditions inside the yuma station. julia, incredible that this continues. >> it was. it was incredible that abner took the time and had the courage to sit down with us. it's so rare, mika, to get immigrants to talk to us. especially because they have a fear of being targeted for deportation. and let alone a child that took an enormous amount of bravery on
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his part to sit down with us. and of course that's why we're not showing his face or sharing his last name. but i think what he got into when he talks about his treatment by the guards shows more than a government has been willing to admit when it comes to the retaliation. he talked about asking what time it was because of course he didn't know because the lights were always on and he have mocked. they said, why, do you have a meeting to get to and he talked about the guards yelling at him and others if they got too close to the windows and being denied food if they needed more. we talked about the soap, the bathing conditions but he kept going back to food which is an even more basic human need.
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so mika, that perfectly shows you how these older children, the 16, 17-year-olds had to care for what they called the little ones because they
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didn't have the food. he thought he could stand the hunger. he could stand standing up. he had to stand up for his first 48 hours trying to sleep because they were so concerned about these little children because the guards weren't taking care of them. he said when they would cry out the guards would get more angry so the people in his cell had to band together to take care of the little children. i will say that we have reached out to dhs and customs and border protection about the allegations they say they're reviewing it. any allegations of misconduct -- of any misconduct would be referred to the office of professional responsibility but they don't believe that the time that abner was there these 11 days from late may to early june that the conditions were as he described it. but you can see in perfect detail how he describes them. >> julia, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe" it's not quite a blank check, but it's a big one. congress is poised to raise the debt ceiling amid ballooning deficits.
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we'll talk to senator dick durbin about what that means for americans who inherit that debt. "morning joe" is back in a moment.
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now the second ranking democrat in the senate, member of the judiciary, dick durbin of illinois. last friday he and other senate democrats visited a migrant detention center in mcallen, texas, and i want to hear first of all what you saw, what you were able to see and what you heard. >> mika, i can tell you that the treatment of the people at the center is marginally improved but still unacceptable by basic american standards. what we have here is kind of the clash between those who want to give humane treatment to the people who come to our country and those who want to create a
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deterrent for other people to arrive. it is embodied in two individuals, sister norma who is with catholic charities inning mcallen, an amazing woman. she has led the effort to treat people with respect and you can see it as you visit her center. on the other side, stephen miller in the white house who must lie awake at night and think of ways to explore other avenues of meanness when it comes to immigration. what a contrast and it embodies the contest of choices in the united states. >> we are hearing some searing and difficult stories about the treatment of young people. about young people, all people being held in these facilities, forced to sleep at night standing up. is that what you saw on the ground? >> well, i sure saw it in april when i was in el paso. we saw -- even though they had cut the population of the center which we visited in half in a
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matter of a week, we still saw a dramatic overcrowding. it would have been literally physically impossible for those in el paso to even be able to lay on the floor and sleep at night. they stood shoulder to shoulder in the detention cells. when we went into the ones in mcallen, a marginal improvement but it's because they had taken away half the population when they heard we were coming. >> senator, we want to get to a lot of different important topics the morning. the budget deal, steve rattner has charts on the deal what it means for the deficit. steve, fill us in and then we'll go back to the senator. >> sure. there was a budget deal announced late last night, it increases the spending and the deficit and we have some charts to show you how some of that is likely to work. first of all the government has been operating under a bunch of spending caps put in place in 2011 and what the blue bar shows is what spending was expected to be in 2020 and 2021 under those
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caps. and the red bar shows what it will be, 15% higher in 2020. 13% higher in 2021. this is -- this is spend on the military and domestic discretionary items. if you were to extend this out, this would add up to $2.1 trillion with interest of additional spending. just as much actually a little bit more than the trump tax cuts that would -- that would pass and also eliminate spending caps going forward so congress would essentially be free to do whatever it wants to do. so if you then turn to what this look like for the deficit when you take it in the historical context, you see bigger deficits way back when which was the ends of the financial crisis. you see the deficit narrowing in the latter obama years and now you see it taking off as a result of two things. one, spending continues to go up which is this red line here and the second is relatively flat tax revenues because largely on the trump tax cuts that were
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passed. so all of that creates a wider deficit and in fact in the current fiscal year the deficit will be up about 23%. if you put that all together this is what the deficit picture looks like over the last roughly 20 years. you see the surpluses that existed at the end of the clinton administration. you see the downturn during the recession. you see it working itself back and we are headed in the next fiscal year 2020 to $1 trillion deficit and it goes on from there to $2 trillion. >> my lord. okay, senator, how is this okay? i mean, at this point what do you make of the deal? >> it's certainly not okay and it's good we're not going to shut down the government. it is certainly preferable we extend the debt ceiling which is america's mortgage acknowledging what we already spent, not what we'll spend in the future. but i can't argue with steve's logic. i'm glad he pointed out that the
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last balanced budget that we have ever experienced here in washington was under the clinton administration. a democratic president. i also want to add that that was followed by bush tax cuts and now these tax cuts from the trump administration which as he's noted are decreasing the revenue increase that would otherwise keep up with spending. so what we have done with these tax cuts at the highest levels of income is to make inequality in this country even worse. i voted against both of the tax cuts. i think they were the wrong thing to do and we're paying a price for it. what steve didn't mention and i think needs to be added in this conversation is the entitlement program, specifically social security and medicare. we know that they are -- that they have dubious futures unless we deal with them and deal with them soon. the longer we wait, the tougher it will be to make sure that they continue in solvency. continue towards solvency i should say. that to me is something that's been overlooked completely in this conversation. >> so senator, i assume that you
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suspected for a long time that you know that i am an economic illiterate. i mean, my wife still gives me an allowance but i do know -- i do know who holds the note on our house. and i'm wondering who if anybody, any country, holds the note on my country. >> china more than most. they have taken up the american debt and held it and we are almost at their mercy. it does though from a geopolitical point of view involve them in a closer relationship with the united states. they certainly don't want us to fail since they want their notes to be paid off. but you're right in saying that somebody else is holding the note when it comes to america's debt. >> hi, there, this is karine jean-pierre here. i wanted to ask you just to change the topic for a quick second about donald trump's racist tweets especially as we have seen in the past kind of ten days or so. i had to ask you, do your
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republican colleagues say anything to you privately behind closed doors? because their silence on this is deafening and is also just enabling this president. >> they tell me two things in private conversations. they're embarrassed by what this president says and does. and secondly, they're scared to death because 85% of their republicans back home would march over a cliff with this president. so they face primary opposition and maybe defeat if they speak out against him. precious few -- a handful, you can count on one hand, three fingers, the republicans who will speak out publicly when the president goes over the line. >> senator, tomorrow will be -- we'll be hearing testimony from robert mueller. what should we expect and what should we not expect? >> i know bob mueller and respect him and i have worked with him over the years. he's a consummate professional. he's not a political animal by nature. he's someone who took this job very seriously and i'm sure will take tomorrow's testimony very
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seriously. i don't expect any major breakthroughs. i think he'll stick closely to his report as the script but the american people will be able to see in the flesh this man, bob mueller, say that what the president's conclusions are, no collusion, no obstruction, aren't born out by his report. his report makes it clear that it was a guideline from the department of justice that stopped any recommendation for action to be taken against the president for his conduct. >> all right. speaking of the president, here's president trump. take a listen, talking about afghanistan yesterday. >> we're not fighting the war, we wanted to fight a war in afghanistan and win it, i could win that war in a week. i just don't want to kill 10 million people. does that make sense to you? i don't want to kill 10 million people. i have plans on afghanistan that if i wanted to win that war, afghanistan would be wiped off the face of the earth. it would be gone. it would be over in literally in
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ten days. and i don't want to do -- i don't want to go that route. >> characterize for me, if you could, your opinion on what the president said there? >> bluster i guess is the word that comes to mind. i don't know if he really has consulted with my experts on what it takes to end the war in afghanistan but count me in the column of those who want to see it come to tend. i can recall it was 18 years ago, there were 23 of us who voted against the invasion of iraq and i'm glad i voted for that. and it i thought coming into the united states and killing 3,000 people, innocent people and not expect some retribution, i didn't know that i was voting for the longest war in the history of the war in afghanistan. i don't think staying there for another year or ten will make a dramatic difference one way or the other. >> all right. senator dick durbin, thank you.
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>> thanks, mika. >> thank you for being on the show. we hope to have you back soon. time now for business before the bell with cnbc's sara eisen. this morning, boris johnson won the contest to become britain's next prime minister. he's now tasked with fulfilling his promise to lead the uk out of the european union. so sara, what does this mean for brexit? >> so he's got 100 days that's basically what it means. october 31st is the scheduled departure date for the uk from the eu. the market is now fearing that the uk crashes out with no deal. why? okay, boris johnson was a leading figure in the 2016 referendum to leave. he was a brexiteer. he has threatened if they don't secure a deal they will leave anyway. that's why the market is pricing in a rising odds that they do crash out. it's kind of the chaos scenario
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here on wall street because it would mean that the uk loses that free trade agreement with the eu. tariff free trade. it would mean that business would face all sorts of uncertainty and it would make the uk less desirable as a place to do business. we have already seen certain banks for instance try to pull out of the uk. that's the uncertainty factor. the preferred option for the new prime minister would be to secure a deal with the eu but he's facing the hard liners in brussels that are defiant and he's facing those members of his own party that are pro eu. the place to look at the uncertainty is in the currency market. the british pound is trading near a two-year low, reflecting sort of the expectation that w now -- that no deal brexit scenario, economically for the uk and the eu is on the table. also just you were talking about the budget deal here in the u.s., wall street is paying attention.
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it an incremental positive, it means we won't get another showdown and potential debt crisis until potentially the next -- after the next election. it post potential -- postpones it for two years. not like we saw a major market freakout or anything like that because we didn't go to the brink on this. but it is considered no less a pretty positive sign that they were able to reach a deal and avert any kind of crisis. >> all right, cnbc's sara eisen, thank you so much. and steve rattner, sara was talking about the future of brexit. if you could add to that, where does that stand now? >> it stands really in a very chaotic uncertain place. the one thing you can say about theresa may, she was trying to get -- to herd the cats so to speak into the majority position that would lead to the orderly brexit. there are essentially three different factions in parliament so getting any two of them to align proved impossible which is why she's gone. and what boris johnson is saying if there's no consensus on what
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to do then we're just going to leave one day and that means leaving without all of the needed trade agreements, all the needed infrastructure, things in place and total chaos. so he's playing a very high stakes game between now and october which is the date he set and if it goes the wrong way it could be extremely upsetting to the world economy. >> all right. steve, thank you. up next, justice reform is emerging as the central issue of the 2020 campaign and it's also at the heart of a new hbo documentary raising troubling questions about racial bias and the rule of law. we'll look at the new film, next on "morning joe." rning joe. i don't know what's going on. rning joe. i've done all sorts of research, read earnings reports, looked at chart patterns. i've even built my own historic trading model. and you're still not sure if you want to make the trade? exactly.
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girl. >> no dna, nothing tying nick to the crime. >> prosecutors don't want to solve this case. they want to get a conviction. >> i tell you i'm scared. >> either nick hillary did this or someone else did this. either one of those options are frightening. >> justice for garrett is seeking the truth. >> that was a look at the gripping new documentary, "who killed garrett phillips" which debuts tonight on hbo. on october 24th, 2011, 12-year-old garrett phillips went home from school and a few hours later was pronounced dead. police quickly zeroed in on a suspect, a black man in the mostly white community, who was the ex-boyfriend of garrett's mother. the documentary follows the case through a number of legal twists and turns and raises troubling questions about racial bias and
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issues surrounding policing and the criminal justice system. joining us now the documentary's director, two-time academy award nominee and emmy winner, and also with us the man ultimately acquitted in garrett's murder, nick hillary. wow. it's great to have you both on our show. i guess, nick, after all you had been through, why did you decide to do this documentary and what finally reopened the case and closed the deal for your freedom? >> thanks for having us, first of all. i think my reasons for doing the documentary, i figured at that particular moment during my plight it was the best disinfectant for the situation i was going through. and to have an individual like liz who was extremely -- very well understanding the circumstances that myself and my family was going through, you know, made it quite easy for us to memorialize the plight i was experiencing at the time.
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>> so, nick, i'm sure this was eight years ago this event occurred, tragic death of garrett phillips, i'm sure that you remember vividly every detail, so i'm going to ask you, when you were first apprehended, i mean, you are a black man, going out with a white woman in a very isolated area of our country, largely white. when did it occur to you when the police called you in for questioning, this is not a unique story. this is an american story. when did it occur to you that they were looking at you as a suspect? >> when i was at the station and the reason that i was given to come down there was never coming to the table, which was for me to assist them in looking at a roster of kids who garrett was friends with. 45 minutes to about an hour there was no rosters being provided and the atmosphere slowly begins to change.
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i quickly realized what was transpiring. >> nick, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. i have a two-part question if you don't mind. the first one is what did you say -- you have five kids, am i right? >> that is correct. >> what do you say to them, growing up black in this country through your experience, this documentary is coming out. what do you say to them about your experience, number one, and how they live their lives in this country. number two, the prosecutors, the police are in this documentary. what would you say to them now that you're on the other side of this, clearly, the documentary is out. what would you want to say to them? >> first, to address the first part of your question, in regards to my kids, i just try to have them understand we live in a world where things will happen. expect the unexpected. i try to educate them about the role of being a black individual in america. and surround themselves with friends like i do have, who have seen me through this situation.
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the younger ones, not so much, because they're not as cognitive to understand what is really transpiring. but the older ones, we definitely have had that conversation. >> liz, you are an award-winning documentary film producer. always looking for the thread of a great story. when did it occur to you, he's coaching soccer. he's not some guy off the street. when did it occur to you? was it reading it in a newspaper like, whoa, this is something? when? >> it was reading in the "new york times" the story about nick. you know, it wasn't just the fact that nick is a military vet and, you know, college graduate and very prestigious soccer coach, faculty member at st. lawrence university. it was also the lack of evidence. you know, they basically had nick making a left turn instead of a right on an afternoon in a very small town and that was the evidence that they brought to convict him of murder. and so it was just very clear that within 12 hours a little boy was dead and there was only
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one suspect they looked at. that is not justice for garrett's family. there is no justice for them. they were used as pawns as well as nick's family of a criminal justice system which was more intent on getting a conviction than finding the killer. and so there is no justice. that story, to me, was one that needed to be told. and until race is mitigated as a factor in criminal justice proceedings, until politics are taken out of the prosecutorial process these stories will need to be told. >> nick, how are you spending your life these days? to what extent have you been able to put this behind you and get on with having a normal life, not with standing this incredibly painful experience? >> it is definitely a lot more difficult than i perceive to try and get back to where i was or if that's even possible at this moment. the saving grace at this particular time is my friends, my family, my loved ones who have been there for me throughout the whole ordeal. they're still here with me
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trying to help me, you know, gather the pieces together and to see if i could get back to where i was before this happened. the biggest situation as well is the power or the unlimited amount of power that the da's possess in this country. it's the one position that can be looked at as the position for that of supreme court. you have das sitting in the office for three decades, two decades, you know, so i think one of the things that i would like for the nation to realize is the importance of putting a time limit on das just like we do with the highest office in the nation. there is a two-term limit. i think that will help eradicate some of the corruption that comes with someone sitting in those offices for a very long time. >> so, liz, as we indicated earlier, this is not a unique story, sadly, in this country. but in this particular story, there's still a killer out there. >> that's right. and, frankly, had nick not had
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the friends that he had had, who were able to publicize his plight and connect him to people who supported his legal defense, because he had connections to a university, nick would likely be one of those innocence project cases that's exonerated 15 years later. he had a legal team. most people do not have the legal team nick had. so, you know, the story has no happy ending. there is no justice for garrett. nick's life has been overturned. >> exactly. >> you know, there are many other people in nick's case who do not have their freedom. >> all right. part one of the documentary "who killed garrett phillips" airs tonight on hbo. it is a worthy watch. liz garbus and nick hillary, thank you both very much for shining a light on this and, nick, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you for having us. >> that does it for us this morning. full coverage tomorrow of course starting right here on "morning joe" of robert mueller's testimony before congress.
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stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. i'm stephanie ruhle and here is what is happening now. we are less than 24 hours from the long-awaited testimony of former special counsel robert mueller. this thing could be a political game changer or it could be a big, fat bust. now even some top democrats are fearing the worst. that is because on monday the justice department sent a letter telling mueller he should not discuss anything beyond what has already been released in his report. now, assuming mueller does what the department of justice asks, we could see the exact same situation we saw earlier this year when democrats and never trumpers were anticipating a bombshell from the mueller report and ended up pretty frustrated. let's get right into the conversation, what all of it means. reporting on this for months, donna e,

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